Hybrid Ministry - Episodes Tagged with “2024 Church Attendance”

Episode 086: 😨 Reaction: Carey Nieuwhof’s 2024 Church Trends

Nick Clason — Thu, 29 Feb 2024 04:00:00 -0600

⚡ [FREE] Hybrid Strategy Guide⚡

https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/free-hybrid-ministry-e-book

2024 Youth Ministry [on-demand] Masterclass
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLngXlSr64YaLIJceFHg7w8vxlx5ARqXeg

Carey's 2024 Church Trends Article
https://careynieuwhof.com/future-church-trends/
======================================
DESCRIPTION
🔥 Carey Niuwhof has recently been dropping some hot takes on the future of the church.
👓 In this episode, Nick reacts from a Hybrid Ministry and Youth Ministry perspective!
🎱 Number 8 is crazy!

Carey's 2024 Church Trends Article
https://careynieuwhof.com/future-church-trends/
======================================
📓SHOWNOTES
//SHOWNOTES & TRANSCRIPTS
http://www.hybridministry.xyz/086

//YOUTUBE VIDEO
https://youtu.be/KptS3NoiC6c

//2024 CHURCH TRENDS ARTICLE
https://careynieuwhof.com/future-church-trends/

//FREE EBOOK STRATEGY GUIDE
https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/free-hybrid-ministry-e-book

STOP IGNORING SOCIAL MEDIA
//https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slB0Rmf_X0c&t=390s

YOUTUBE GEAR FOR UNDER $100
//https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/youtubestarterkit

HYBRID STRATEGY EXPLAINED
//https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDxepdu4iiM

STOP DOING THIS ON SOCIAL MEDIA
//https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slB0Rmf_X0c&t=390s

BETTER CHURCH ANNOUNCEMENTS

//https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzhYluEKZ_I&list=PLngXlSr64YaKYLaGvuPA5pBYfJflXm0-A&index=43

👉 STAY CONNECTED WITH NICK
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@clasonnick
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hybridministry/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@clasonnick
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HybridMinistry
Website: https://www.hybridministry.xyz

======================================

🆓 FREEBIES 🆓
📅 "The Full Hybrid Ministry Strategy"
https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/free-hybrid-ministry-e-book

🖥️ "My 9 Favorite DYM Resources"
https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/dym

🎅 "The Ultimate (and FREE!) Christmas Party Gude"
GUIDE: https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/christmas-party-run-sheet
PRACTICAL YM TIPS: https://www.youtube.com/@practicalyouthministrytips

🍩 "FREE World's Greatest Donut Event Guide"
GUIDE: https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/worlds-greatest-donut

😨 "Have I already Ruined my TikTok Account?"
https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/ebook

📹 "Adobe Premiere Pro Presets for Animating Layers"
https://share.hsforms.com/1VL1oWwWwQ82PLwsPFkPITgnumis

======================================
🛠️TOOLS
Some of the below links are affilate links in which we do recieve a small commission based on your purchase or use of products

//BEST DYM RESOURCES
https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/dym

OPUS.PRO FOR AI SHORTS & REELS
https://www.opus.pro/?via=a5d361

//YOUTUBE STARTER KIT FOR UNDER $100
https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/youtubestarterkit

AUTO POD
https://autopod.lemonsqueezy.com?aff=MX7Vv

TRY REV.COM FOR TRANSCRIBING
https://rev.pxf.io/R5nDOa

--------------
🕰️TIMECODES
00:00 Carey Nieuwhof's 2024 Church Trends Article
00:41 The Boomer Decline is a BIG Deal
04:48 Gen Z is Spiritually Open
06:27 Lean Further into Hybrid, Like Taylor Swift?
08:03 Don't Give up with Online Church Ministry!
09:14 The Weekend Sermon is less important
10:49 Content Curation Matters!
12:00 Volunteerism isn't going to get better
13:30 Pastoral Burnout is on the decline!

--------------
✍️TRANSCRIPT
00:00:00:00 - 00:00:23:25
Nick Clason
The future of the church, the Capital C church. Not just my church, not just your church. It's going to look very different in 2024. And frankly, beyond because of Generation Z and now Generation Alpha, both waving up Z into the adult ministry conversation Alpha into the youth ministry conversation. It makes me wonder if the future is already here.

00:00:23:27 - 00:00:45:20
Nick Clason
I think it might be Carey Nieuwhof has been spittin’ an absolute fire recently talking about church trends. And so what I wanted to do is I wanted to take his article Church Trends from 2024 things You Need to Know. Link down below on description and talk about it. And so let's jump in. Waste no time. Trend number one is that the Boomer church will decline and eventually disappear.

00:00:45:21 - 00:01:11:20
Nick Clason
This is just basic human psychology. You know, you get it right. But he said this. He said, Since 2020, the boomers have become the least likely demographic to return to church. That's out of post-COVID, 22% of them saying and saying that they've stopped attending church, get this entirely. Meanwhile, only 16% of millennials have stopped attending. So that's the smallest of the demographics and I love if you would, give me a subscribe.

00:01:11:21 - 00:01:29:13
Nick Clason
If you're a millennial, like if you're a Gen Xer and hey, hit the bill no matter what age demographic you are, because we are going to be dropping all kinds of new stuff. I got a new playlist already in the hopper. We just wrapped up the 2024 Youth Ministry on-demand Masterclass and now I got one coming at you next week excited for it!

00:01:29:13 - 00:01:56:26
Nick Clason
And if you're on YouTube, you get it early, you get it on Wednesday instead of Thursday in the regular podcast feed. But Nieuwhof goes on to say that 54% of millennials actually attended primarily in-person. 65% of boomers say that they only attend in-person. And so that is a that's going to be key coming down the pike here in a minute as we look at this trend's article about the difference between the hybrid space in the in-person space.

00:01:56:27 - 00:02:17:25
Nick Clason
Right. Unlike boomers, millennials, they they don't just track with church while they're in the building. Millennials and Xers, honestly, are quite comfortable with the idea of hybrid church. This is Nieuwhof’s blog. And guess what? He has no idea that this podcast exists. But the fact of the matter is he sees it just like I feel like I have been seeing.

00:02:17:25 - 00:02:37:10
Nick Clason
And I'm not trying to be like I'm as smart as Carey Nieuwhof by no means at all. But the dude is is calling it right? He says. So boomers for the most part, they've not embraced hybrid church. If you watching on YouTube if not, go ahead to hybridministry.xyz/086 for the show notes. But this graph is going to be on screen.

00:02:37:10 - 00:03:04:15
Nick Clason
Just click the YouTube link. If you do go to your podcast catcher and scrub forward to this part in the episode, but says since the COVID 19 pandemic, which of the following most accurately describes your church attendance either online or in-person? This is the percentage of Christians who are attending church pre COVID 19. And so you'll see that like the highest gap right there have stopped attending is actually boomers, which is what most of our churches were built for.

00:03:04:18 - 00:03:34:16
Nick Clason
And a large, large majority of of millennials you'll see and Xers have been attending the same church that they attended pre COVID. And so there are three kind of main areas of impact with this point. The first one is attendance. Right? And one idea that I have in light of that is stop ignoring social media. Our attendance is going to take on a different kind of approach.

00:03:34:18 - 00:04:00:02
Nick Clason
Millennials and Xers and Gen Z are going to attend church less and less frequently. It doesn't mean they're less committed to your church. It just means they're less committed to being there on a week to week basis. We live in a different world. And so if you as a youth pastor in particular are ignoring social media or only using social media as an avenue or an outlet to post announcements, you're missing out on an incredible opportunity.

00:04:00:07 - 00:04:30:00
Nick Clason
I think about it in my own space. I have teenagers who have weekend soccer tournaments and baseball tournaments and things that keep them out on the weekend. It doesn't mean that they're not committed or that they're less committed to our church. It just simply means that they have other obligations. And I know I've worked at churches and on church staff that say they're not as committed, but if we go hybrid and if we find a way to meet them where they are, which is really what this is all about, they can still consume the things of God.

00:04:30:00 - 00:04:50:13
Nick Clason
They can still follow him, they can still be connected and attached to our church. You look at this graph here on the screen, Weekly Church attendance by generation millennials are actually the highest out of the pandemic, post-COVID. So attendance is area number one that this is going to impact. It's also going to impact volunteering and thirdly, it's going to impact giving.

00:04:50:18 - 00:05:17:17
Nick Clason
Carey Nieuwhof goes on to say that open pastors will actually be more well-positioned to reach an open generation. Speaking of and talking about Generation Z, Gen Z, statistically speaking, is actually the most spiritually open generation that we've ever actually seen in our history. Right. And if you check out the YouTube, the YouTube feed here, you'll see that the spiritual journey of Gen Z, you'll see that they're open.

00:05:17:23 - 00:05:42:09
Nick Clason
They're much more open to things of God and faith. They believe that there's supernatural or spiritual side to life, 61% compared to 51% of all adults. They've gone through a prolonged they've gone through a prolonged period of time where they've significantly doubted their faith. 65% to 49%, 56% say my experiences have led me to deconstruct or take apart my faith of my youth 56% versus 47%.

00:05:42:09 - 00:06:04:18
Nick Clason
I'm disillusioned by my experience in the Christian church 48 to 43%. But I love this line that he has in the blog he says, “A spiritually open generation is a reachable generation. So what are you doing to reach this generation? This this generation is laying the groundwork for Gen Alpha, which is right behind them, youth pastors, Gen Alpha, they're in your youth ministry right now.

00:06:04:18 - 00:06:27:03
Nick Clason
The oldest ones of them are are some of the youngest kids in your youth ministry. So like I said, youth pastors go hybrid. Check out my e-book link down description. I'll give you a step by step guide to not only posting on social media, but then also posting your YouTube messages and using that as your bedrock so that everything builds on top of that, which is actually why this next trend.

00:06:27:04 - 00:06:48:09
Nick Clason
Right. I obviously believe this next trend is completely spot on because it says this the line between digital and in-person will blur even more. And he says, take a note from Taylor Swift yet check this out. Is it Taylor Swift is actually a prime example of this. In particular, she's modeling how to have a strong digital presence and drive an intense in-person demand.

00:06:48:12 - 00:07:16:13
Nick Clason
Her midnight album released in October of 2022. You can see this graph on the screen. It's absolutely crazy. You will not believe what you're seeing It says. And not only broke streaming records on Spotify, but it simultaneously locked up every position on the Billboard Top ten, and they sold 500,000 physical vinyl albums in a single week, often times there's an argument against a hybrid strategy in favor of the in-person experience, like they can't go together.

00:07:16:13 - 00:07:46:21
Nick Clason
And and that's the thing that is actually the hybrid. I'm like, no, that's that's not just digital. That's both that's online and that's in-person and that's putting them together. And pastors look at the graph. Her in-person ticket sales skyrocketed and went through the roof. So if you can capture the magic of a digital and strong online presence, you can actually bring that into fruition in your in-person experience.

00:07:46:27 - 00:08:08:28
Nick Clason
And on the converse of that or the inverse of one of those two, the flip side of that, let's go with that. The flip side of that is that once people are attached, you're connected to your church. You can continue to show up in their life throughout the rest of the week, giving them discipleship resources, Bible study tools and things that will help them grow in their faith and nurture their walk with God.

00:08:09:00 - 00:08:35:17
Nick Clason
Number four Nieuwhof says that churches that embrace online ministry will start seeing results. You may be out there and being like I've been trying to do. I'm not seeing the results. I'm getting frustrated, I'm getting tired. But like I said, we can help, right? I get it. The resources aren't there and and they're likely there for the rest of the church that they're not there, especially for youth ministries, which is why I down in the description below, I have YouTube gear for under $100.

00:08:35:23 - 00:08:58:03
Nick Clason
And this video right here will detail an outline, all of it and how you can use it and make it happen. But Kerry said that according to Lifeway Research, before the pandemic, only 27% of churches offered any live streaming. That's essentially one out of four. However, since that live streaming of services and now post pandemic, 92% of churches now live stream their services.

00:08:58:03 - 00:09:18:21
Nick Clason
And so as the world has reopened, the surprising things and number of those churches that were up at the 92%, they've actually throttled back their online services, hoping to to drive in-person attendance as if they're competing with one another. And so not only is that a bad strategy and you have said he says it's also incredibly shortsighted. Stick with it.

00:09:18:22 - 00:09:44:27
Nick Clason
You're going to see the results. Number five, he says the purpose of the weekend sermon will shift from being an attraction to an anchor. Listen, stop doing this on social media, which is linked down in the description part of the 2024 Youth Ministry OnDemand Masterclass playlist. I just wrapped up last week in the last video. But but stop doing these things right.

00:09:44:29 - 00:10:06:19
Nick Clason
Stop saying on social media. Join us for our new series on Sunday at nine and 11. Don't miss last Sunday's message available online on demand. I can't wait to share your brand new message with you. That's what Nieuwhof is saying that's not attraction A lot of times we as pastors and listen, I get it, Pastor, like you've spent time on this sermon.

00:10:06:20 - 00:10:25:10
Nick Clason
You care about these people and you care and you want them to hear what you have to say. But that's a very on onto me or I'm sorry, that's a very cable TV strategy. That's a very like, hey, you can only hear this thing at nine and 11. And the fact is that we don't live in a cable TV society anymore.

00:10:25:10 - 00:10:54:09
Nick Clason
You probably even watch cable TV anymore. The only appointment television that I even have anymore is like live sports. Otherwise everything else is streaming. And so I think it's much better start thinking about the real reasons why people come to church, because there are still reasons why people come to church and come to in-person church. Things like community, things like kids and student ministry, things like connection and an experience that doesn't always translate to online.

00:10:54:09 - 00:11:24:19
Nick Clason
This all from Nieuwhof’s blog Number six. He says content curation will now start to matter as much as content creation. He said the push to online and the changing place of sermons in today's world can leave pastors feeling an unsustainable pressure to produce a nonstop flow of spiritual content. And so, as more and more passages are discovering every year, it's almost impossible to produce top tier messages week to week to compete with some of the best that is out and available on the Internet.

00:11:24:22 - 00:11:42:02
Nick Clason
It's not any pressure, right? This was not a pressure from any previous generations. The things that pastors dealt with honestly can feel like an unsustainable pressure. And so one of the things he says is, he says, flip it from content creation to consider curating like how can you gather some of the best sources and then help point and show your people?

00:11:42:02 - 00:11:59:28
Nick Clason
I mean, even I'm thinking about this weekend, we're doing a a workshop for some of our teenagers on how to study the Bible. And if they get on Google, they can find all kinds of different resources. But how do they know if they're reputable or not? Right? So we give them a list. Here are five resources that we know that we trust and that we say, Hey, you can use, right?

00:12:00:05 - 00:12:25:26
Nick Clason
That's a great example of a way that you can curate the entire World Wide Web and then package it and bring it to your people. Number seven, not to depress anyone Nieuwhof says the volunteer crisis will move from acute to chronic. He had three reasons for it. Number one, first, the return to church meant different people returned to church and much slower than I think we all expected.

00:12:25:29 - 00:12:45:19
Nick Clason
Number two, more significantly, as trend number one outlined at the beginning of the article, boomers are aging out and are the least likely group to return to church. This makes the volunteer backbone of most churches, a nonprofit organizations less robust than it used to be. And that's only going to get more challenging, especially as boomers continue to age and ultimately age out.

00:12:45:22 - 00:13:08:11
Nick Clason
And third, and finally, the next generation, primarily millennials and Generation Z, they attend church less and left less often, like I said earlier, making it less frequent thing, meaning they have more options on the weekends so it gets harder for them to commit. So we need to be thinking about as pastors, not only like understanding and realizing there is a volunteer crisis and there is a volunteer problem.

00:13:08:13 - 00:13:31:14
Nick Clason
How can you shift? We actually talked about it in a video linked down blown description, but we've actually talked about how can you shift your volunteer pitch from we need you to we want to come alongside and support you. We want you to to flourish here. We want to watch you experience incredible depth and purpose and live a life on mission.

00:13:31:14 - 00:13:54:26
Nick Clason
And we believe as a church, we can help facilitate that for you. It's really not that big of a shift. Number eight Pastoral. Pastoral burnout will stabilize as pastors embrace their new church. Listen, if you're a pastor here on this podcast, this is good news because you've seen that over the last several years, pastors have had a high risk for burnout.

00:13:54:26 - 00:14:22:10
Nick Clason
But there's hope. You're doing a great job. And as this graph highlights, it's starting to stabilize. It's starting to normalize. The newness of all the things from 2020 and beyond is starting to kind of chill out. And there's hope. You're you can do it right there is a light at the end of the tunnel. You know, one of the keys that I have personally found in stabilizing my burnout and making me feel more enticed about continuing on in my job is increasing my time management load, which is actually linked right here on the screen.

00:14:22:10 - 00:14:41:19
Nick Clason
If you want to check that video, go ahead and do that. But we're so glad that you checked out this this podcast and this episode. Thank you, Carrie, for this amazing article. It is spot on because I believe that we need to make digital discipleship not only easy but possible and inaccessible. And so, as always, don't forget stay hybrid.

Episode 079: 🤷 Youth Pastor: Event Coordinators? or Disciple-Makers?

Nick Clason — Thu, 11 Jan 2024 07:00:00 -0600

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2024 [FREE] Youth Ministry Masterclass on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLngXlSr64YaLIJceFHg7w8vxlx5ARqXeg

========================================

DESCRIPTION
📈 How do we get more people to show up to our events?
How do we grow our group?
How do we attract and retain teens?

57% of American Church Goers, according to Pew Research, don’t even attend church once a month!!

👌In this episode we’re going to explore 3 key shifts in our thinking
⚙️And I have the ultimate tool to accessing and resourcing people/students in the digital age.

Subscribe to our channel and don't miss any more videos from the 2024 Youth Ministry Masterclass FREE on YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLngXlSr64YaLIJceFHg7w8vxlx5ARqXeg

========================================
📓SHOWNOTES
//SHOWNOTES & TRANSCRIPTS
http://www.hybridministry.xyz/079

//YOUTUBE VIDEO
https://youtu.be/EzhYluEKZ_I

SHIFT #1 FROM PRODUCTION TO ACCESS
//PEW RESEARCH ARTICLES ON CHURCH ATTENDANCE
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/03/22/more-houses-of-worship-are-returning-to-normal-operations-but-in-person-attendance-is-unchanged-since-fall/?utm_source=adaptivemailer&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=rel%20-%2022-03-22%20worship%20attendance&org=982&lvl=100&ite=9703&lea=2048393&ctr=0&par=1&trk=a0d3j0000112o9deae

//TERRY PARKMAN
https://www.terryparkman.com/

//GEN ALPHA DATA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHpeDaLS3oo

//PRO CHURCH TOOLS
https://prochurchtools.com/

//FULL DIGITAL STRATEGY
https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/free-hybrid-ministry-e-book

SHIFT #2 FROM PERFORMANCE TO ENGAGEMENT

//EVERY YOUTH MINISTRY NEEDS A GOOD DIGITAL PRESENCE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDxepdu4iiM

SHIFT #3 FROM QUANTITY TO COMMUNITY

//THE QUESTIONS OF BELONGING
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHpeDaLS3oo

//WORLD'S GREATEST DONUT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ryhkIRyDb4

//MASTER YOUR TIME
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlS1kWcQBS8

========================================

🆓 FREEBIES 🆓
📅 "1 Month Done for You Social Media Posting Tool"
https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/free-hybrid-ministry-e-book

🍩 "FREE World's Greatest Donut Event Guide"
GUIDE: https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/worlds-greatest-donut

😨 "Have I already Ruined my TikTok Account?"
https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/ebook

📹 "Adobe Premiere Pro Presets for Animating Layers"
https://share.hsforms.com/1VL1oWwWwQ82PLwsPFkPITgnumis

========================================
🛠️TOOLS
Some of the below links are affilate links in which we do recieve a small commission based on your purchase or use of products

//BEST DYM RESOURCES
https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/dym

OPUS.PRO FOR AI SHORTS & REELS
https://www.opus.pro/?via=a5d361

//YOUTUBE STARTER KIT FOR UNDER $100
https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/youtubestarterkit

AUTO POD
https://autopod.lemonsqueezy.com?aff=MX7Vv

TRY REV.COM FOR TRANSCRIBING
https://rev.pxf.io/R5nDOa

--------------
🕰️TIMECODES
00:00-01:21 Event Coordinator? Or Disciple-Maker?
01:21-07:18 SHIFT #1 from PRODUCTION to ACCESS
07:18-09:20 SHIFT #2 from PERFORMANCE to ENGAGEMENT
09:20-16:14 SHIFT #3 from QUANTITY to COMMUNITY

✍️TRANSCRIPT
Try Transcribing for Yourself at Rev.Com
http://www.rev.pxf.io/R5nDOa

Nick Clason (00:00):
Youth pastors. How do we get more people to show up to our events? How do we grow the size of our youth groups? How do we attract and retain teenagers? See, all these questions are common questions. They're things that we're all facing at least at some level. And regardless of if you think that the attendance debate matters or not, we talked about it in our very last video linked up here in our playlist, in our youth ministry 2024 masterclass that we are going through completely free all here online on YouTube. Love to have you subscribe, check it out, and make sure you don't miss another one. We talked about the church attendance conundrum because 54% of American Christians are not attending church according to Pew Research at least one time per month. So in this episode, I want to talk to you about three key shifts that are going to help us reach the next generation as we explore this question.

Nick Clason (00:50):
Are we in the event making business or are we in the disciple making business? And I also have the ultimate tool that I believe can help you become more accessible in resourcing both your people and your students in this new found digital age. Like I said, we'd love to have you subscribe, like leave a comment, leave a rating, leave a review. All of those things help us get found and make sure that you can get the very next episode as soon as it drops episode 80 in our 2024 Youth Ministry masterclass. Welcome to the Hybrid Ministry Show. Well, everyone, my name's Nick Clason. I'm a youth pastor in DFW Dallas Fort Worth. Been in youth ministry now being January of 2024. Mark's my 13th year in youth ministry and I've most recently went to a conference with the Gen Z guru himself. Terry Parkman. If you don't know Terry, he's amazing, but he talked about some of these shifts, so I just want to kind of elaborate on them and kick some of them around a little bit more.

Nick Clason (01:46):
But he talked about the difference that Generation Z and now subsequently generation Alpha, who if you didn't see in our last episode, we classified them being born somewhere between 2010 and 2018, probably more than 2012 rage, which is what Pew research kind of settles on as the origin date of generation alpha. Nonetheless, Terry Parkman specifically talking about Gen Z, talks about the shift in thinking from Gen Z who thinks more in a digital age, digital mindset versus all of US millennials and older Gen x boomers and so on and so forth, who are more raised in a industrial aged way of thinking and industrial age way frankly of living. And so what the first shift that is important that he talks about is we need to shift from an industrial minded way of production, which is an industrial value to one of access. The way that we talk about it is just simply build access points onto your ministry, so an industrial way of thinking and the production value production kind of mindset.

Nick Clason (02:54):
Think about seeker style churches back in the early nineties or early two thousands where you may open with a secular song, one that's familiar, one that's relatable. You may try to go for relevant lighting, you may really try to put the entire screws down on the production, the value of how important production is, and that a really well-produced thing will draw out consumers, it's almost like the mentality if we build it, they will come. It also comes down to simply how much can we produce the amount of production value that we can add? The more production value that we can add, the better, the greater, the higher the number, the more that we can produce, the more that we can attract. That's an industrial way of thinking. Meanwhile, a digital way of thinking, they don't necessarily Gen Z Gen and Alpha and the generations that are coming on behind, they don't necessarily want those things.

Nick Clason (03:49):
They're looking more for access. They're wondering, do I fit here? Can I gain access to this place and how can I let my gifts be utilized and flourish and shine here? Honestly, one of my number one pet peeves in churches is when we from a volunteer aspect say things like, we need you to do our job. That is not enticing in any way, shape, or form, and it's especially not enticing to the next generation. What I think they otherwise might more importantly, more interestingly want to hear is, Hey, we want you to shine here and how can we partner with you to make a difference in this world? It goes from US centric to them centric, and I get it. I'm hearing you scream on the other side, but that's not what a disciple of Jesus does. Correct. However, how are we ever going to be relevant and make any sort of inroads with the next generation?

Nick Clason (04:46):
If the way in which we posture ourselves is fundamentally and vehemently different than them, are we asking them to acquiesce to us as opposed to us finding ways that it's not that big of a deal to make a subtle shift? Because in the same way, we can still ask Gen Z and Gen Alpha to serve, we are just making it them centric instead of US centric. And again, you might be screaming that they shouldn't be them centric, but isn't it just as Unbiblical and Christlike for us to be US centric, organization centric, pastor centric in the land of access points. Our church right now, honestly, probably right now as I'm recording this on a random night in December, we have these things, these events, and they're amazing and they get talked about and they get promoted and they're all over social, and someone asked me how do I sign up for it and do you know what?

Nick Clason (05:37):
I said? I work there at the church, I don't actually have anything to do with it, and obviously I'm not there right now. I said, I have no idea. We have these events. There's sort of this lore about them, but how to actually access it. It's confusing, and I frankly haven't tried, so that's probably on me, but point of it is, is your church accessible? How easy to navigate is your website. I love what Brady Sheer and all of them at Pro Church Tools up in Canada say all the time and say, make your website, be a one stop shop. Don't for one thing, go sign up via the bulletin for the other thing. Send an email for the third thing, head to the website and for the fourth thing, find someone in the lobby. You never know what to do, where to go, and so only the most loyal and only the person with the most headstrong sort of stubbornness is going to ever actually find anything out.

Nick Clason (06:29):
Anybody else who comes upon any sort of roadblock or opposition, all of a sudden it's just really easy for them to crumble. And here's the fact, I don't believe I have all the answers, but one of the ways in which we are trying to create more access points in our ministry is through our digital strategy, which I have completely laid out in my 100% completely free ebook free for you. Grab the link, go download it. All I need is your name. All I need is your email and that's it. It's yours to use. It's my strategy that I've used to grow YouTube channel in a year from zero subscribers all the way up to almost 400 subscribers. It might be even past 400 by the time that this video actually drops, it's completely laid out. It's basically my social media masterclass and guess what I gave it and I'm giving it to you for free, and I would love to encourage you to just grab it, try it, implement it, and check it all out.

Nick Clason (07:18):
Shift number two is we need to shift from performance based and industrial way of thinking to more engagement based. So if you think about an industrial way of thinking where performance is king, think about the best, the prettiest, the nicest, the smelliest people on stage with a good swath of diversity and all those things, or just even in youth ministry, we've all sort of had the basis of like, let's just have some fun, and if the kids have fun, then they'll definitely want to come back. If we perform really well for them and we don't screw up, then they'll be like, man, that place was so good. I just want to come back. That's an industrial way of thinking, and here's the problem. If you are a youth pastor and you're my age or you're a millennial, that's the way that you think because that's the way and that's the age in which you were raised in.

Nick Clason (08:03):
To think that that's what is valued, but the next generation that's more in a digital age, they're not worried about performance. They want to know, am I able to engage with this? When it's all about performance, think about a conveyor belt and a factory. The way that that goes is if there's a certain part in the conveyor belt that's causing a backup, what do we do? We just stick another person in there. We don't care what that person does, who that person is, what that person can do for us or our organization. We just want to know, can that person keep the conveyor belt from stopping? Can that person keep the performance going? But a digital way of thinking, a digital shift when you go from performance to more engagement based thinking is you're wondering, Hey, how can we create good content that students want to engage with?

Nick Clason (08:48):
Which is why I link right down below or right up here on the screen, whichever one, I'm not sure if I've used my card yet or not in this video, but every youth ministry needs a good digital presence. It's my full YouTube strategy. It's my full social media strategy. It's the one that's tied to my ebook. It's the video explaining the ebook if you want to go check that out. Again, I don't have all the answers. It's just my way to sort of attempt to try and engage more with our students who are different, who are digital thinkers, who are Gen Z and coming quick behind them, generation alpha. The third shift is we need to switch from a value of quantity to a value of community, an industrial way of thinking. We are entirely built in most churches for quantity. Think about it. If you have a church with auditorium style seating, the goal of that room is to get the most amount of quantity of people in to listen to one captivating speaker, wax eloquent for a week, and listen, honestly, no shade thrown.

Nick Clason (09:48):
Most pastors, you're really good at your job, you're good at crafting sermons and you're good at delivering sermons, but the fact of the matter is, while you may be awesome at it, that's just not what's as highly valued in our world, especially in the world of digital. With audio, podcasts, YouTube podcast, people can listen to audio books, sermons. They can listen to the best preachers in the entire world. Again, no offense to you at the drop of a hat, instantly binging them, never actually running out of content. That's how accessible all of this stuff is, and so when people come to church, they don't want to just be another number kind of filtered into the auditorium to look at the back of someone's seat. That's why I believe link down below in the show notes. In this episode, we talked about why churches are dying.

Nick Clason (10:32):
I think churches are not adapting to the new issues and the new way of thinking that this next generation is so adamant about, and again, that generation, this next generation, this digital way of generation, they're not looking for a room to come and consume some more content. They're looking for community. And so if our rooms are built for quantity, thus they're not then built at least optimally for community. I mean, I know I worked at a church one time that we had Longwood ews and they were bolted to the ground. We couldn't do anything about those things, and even if they weren't bolted to the ground, they were heavy as sin. Man, I could not lift one of those things because once we finally did try to lift them, I was like, dang, who got these in here? It's like a five man job. The goal was get these things in here, never to be moved again.

Nick Clason (11:22):
This room is for one purpose and one purpose only, and the purpose that most younger people are looking for is not that. A dangerous way I believe of thinking is that we often value a Christian culture more than the Christ of the culture, and so therefore, I believe that what we're trying to do is we're trying to force people into a way of thinking, and when community trump's performance, we actually get a messy, authentic, real interaction with other believers who love Jesus and are trying to pursue and follow him. And so in a digital way of thinking, I think people who value community are looking for asking questions like, where do I belong? And are these people at my church? Are they my people? The students, they're asking those questions and they may, like we said in our last video and this masterclass in video two, this is not video three, they may be asking, are these people my people?

Nick Clason (12:15):
And they may be coming to your youth ministry, and just because they're there doesn't necessarily mean that they're engaging in religious practice. And it also doesn't necessarily mean that they're there because they want to be, because almost 50% of no, it's 65% of students come to church with at least one parent. That's where they're coming to church. They're not coming to church. They love God. They're not coming to church. They love you. They're not coming to church. They love your youth ministry. They're coming to church. They're coming to church with their parents, but if they can find a real captivating community that they can't say no to, they're not going anywhere. So it's not about what you produce, it's about the community that's available to them. We live now with the very first global generation. Students spend on average, shockingly five to eight hours on their phones screens per day.

Nick Clason (13:06):
The church world was built for consumers, and what's happening now is in that generation what's being internalized, they want to find a place to externalize it. And so one of the ideas that I have, again, I don't have all the answers, I don't know if this is a good idea or not. We did it in our space. It seemed to work well. It's a hybrid event. It's called the World's Greatest Donut, completely free event guide right here. You can click it, and it's just an opportunity to engage with students beyond your program times because I think a lot of times what we try to do is we try to get as many people, as much quantity into a room and call that success. What I'm trying to do is I'm trying to expand the relationship beyond just the one time per week, and that's what this event is all built on.

Nick Clason (13:46):
It's a one-time event for an in-person event, however it lives on for an entire month. Not only live in the room, but it also lives live on your social media. That's the in-person versus the digital creating a hybrid moment together. Hey, the ultimate tool that I teased at the beginning of this video is, and I've already said it, it's my ebook. It's my full digital strategy. The fact is I don't have it all together, but the way in which you can utilize that is you have to become a master of your time, which is a video that's linked right here on the screen. It was a couple of videos ago, and the next video in this playlist is how to implement a good social media strategy where you're not simply just posting announcements. Click either one of those and we would love to see you on the other side. And as always, my friends stay hybrid.

Episode 078: 📈 Youth Group Growth: Reaching Gen Z & Gen Alpha

Nick Clason — Thu, 04 Jan 2024 04:00:00 -0600

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DESCRIPTION
📈 Youth Ministry Growth and Attendance

🔢 Do number really matter?

😤 It’s an agonizing pursuit that all of us as youth pastors and leaders are constantly feel the tension.

Whether we buy into the debate or not, pressure is real.

Maybe pressure from your senior pastor
Maybe pressure from other parents
Maybe even pressure from yourself

And furthermore, according to Pew Research, one in five church goeers in 2022 participated in virtual church once a month.
However, 57% did not attend in person or watch online per month.
Not just anyone in general.. But Americans who TYPICALLY attend services.

How do we reach Generation Z or Generation Alpha students?
Especially in light of this new reality?

Subscribe to our channel and don't miss any more videos from the 2024 Youth Ministry Masterclass FREE on YouTube

========================================

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🛠️TOOLS
Some of the below links are affilate links in which we do recieve a small commission based on your purchase or use of products

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Website: https://www.hybridministry.xyz

📓SHOWNOTES
//SHOWNOTES & TRANSCRIPTS
http://www.hybridministry.xyz/078

//YOUTUBE VIDEO
https://youtu.be/BHpeDaLS3oo

//PEW RESEARCH ARTICLES ON CHURCH ATTENDANCE
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/03/22/more-houses-of-worship-are-returning-to-normal-operations-but-in-person-attendance-is-unchanged-since-fall/?utm_source=adaptivemailer&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=rel%20-%2022-03-22%20worship%20attendance&org=982&lvl=100&ite=9703&lea=2048393&ctr=0&par=1&trk=a0d3j0000112o9deae

//DATA ON GEN ALPHA
https://explodingtopics.com/blog/generation-alpha-guide

//DR. ELMORE'S BOOK
https://www.amazon.com/Generation-Unfiltered-Challenges-Anxious-Population-ebook/dp/B07YQ9XT8N/ref=sr_1_2?hvadid=580669290679&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9027211&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=8887138684661202423&hvtargid=kwd-831658052586&hydadcr=24309_13537702&keywords=gen+z+unfiltered&qid=1701783263&sr=8-2

//TEEN CHURCH ATTENDANCE PATTERNS
https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2020/09/10/u-s-teens-take-after-their-parents-religiously-attend-services-together-and-enjoy-family-rituals/

//TEENS AND THEIR PARENTS
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2020/09/10/10-key-findings-about-the-religious-lives-of-u-s-teens-and-their-parents/

//4 CHAIR DISCIPLING
https://www.amazon.com/Chair-Discipling-What-Jesus-Calls/dp/0802418813/ref=asc_df_0802418813/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=266167140404&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13879828523234723627&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9027211&hvtargid=pla-557460291481&psc=1&mcid=c72abb3a6997315793653dc9cbd8d965&gclid=CjwKCAiApuCrBhAuEiwA8VJ6Jry6x6cwpQRcpt1hnTOOVAIdS6r9rmBPSQleT8QwxqgYzqAeu6RyuBoCFo4QAvD_BwE

//GOOD TIME MANAGEMENT FOR A HYBRID STRATEGY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlS1kWcQBS8

🕰️TIMECODES
00:00-02:05 Do numbers matter?
02:05-05:30 Who are Generation Z and Generation Alpha?
05:30-07:13 Attendance Finding 1: Teens share religion with parents
07:13-10:48 Attendance Finding 2: Teens go to service, but don't engage in religious practices
10:48-16:22 Attendance Finding 3: Teens attend church with one or both of their parents

✍️TRANSCRIPT
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Nick Clason (00:00):
Youth ministry growth in attendance in the age old Questions do numbers really matter? Here's what I know. I was one time called by a church that said, Hey, just a couple weeks ago in our church of multiple thousands, we've had only eight students show up. So whether you buy into the debate or not, the pressure is always there. Maybe pressure from your senior pastor, maybe pressure from youth parents, maybe even internal pressure that you just put on yourself. And what's even crazier is according to Pew Research, one in five, churchgoers back in 2022, participated in a virtual church service at least one time, which is a good thing. I mean, heck, we're in the hybrid ministry podcast, you know what I'm saying? However, 57% did not attend church in person or watch online during the course of at least one month, which means greater than 50%, not just of anyone in general of churchgoers are not typically attending church services.

Nick Clason (01:05):
So how in the world with that as the framework for church attendance and the way that youth ministry attendance is going, how in the world do we even reach Gen Z and Gen Alpha students, especially in light of this brand new reality? We're going to be sharing in this episode three key findings about teens and their attendance trends. And furthermore, I'm going to share with you one way that I as a youth pastor am shifting my thinking and maybe you can also shift your thinking about reaching this next generation. And finally, I have a bonus tip that I think is going to actually be the number one game changer in this entire conversation. Welcome to the Hybrid Ministry Show. You're in youth ministry, or if you're just a church leader and you're at least overseeing at some level some capacity, generation Z generation alpha, it's important because we're talking about youth group attendance and it's important to understand who we're actually talking about.

Nick Clason (02:01):
So Generation Z and Generation Alpha are kind of the two generations in play in this conversation. In fact, I have a video linked at the top of the screen. Go ahead and check it out where we did a deep dive into Generation Alpha and started to explore them. And quite frankly, it's one of the only videos I know that's out there about Generation Alpha. The data is still really new and still really young because the fact of the matter is that according to exploding topics.com link in the description, if you're watching on YouTube, you might be able to see some of these things online. If you're not watching on YouTube, you should definitely check that out. But Gen Alpha is made up of people born between 2010 and 2025. Wait, what? 2025? Yeah, you heard that, right? They're not even born yet. Okay. And so the fact of the matter is that that data actually is in opposition to some other experts such as Tim Elmore, who by the way, I have a chart right here on screen.

Nick Clason (02:53):
Again, if you're not watching on YouTube, go grab it or link in the show notes. It's from his book, generation Z Unfiltered, the Nine Hidden Challenges of Facing the Most Anxious Population of All Time. This chart is absolute goal, but you'll notice that he draws the line for the end of generation Z at 2018. So we have exploding topics at 2010. We have Tim Elmore at 2018, all of that to be said, Elmore's book is a little bit dated, and so I think that more research and just time we've honed in a little bit and gotten a little bit closer. And so while this chart is gold, you should definitely look at it and inspect it and learn a little bit more. Elmore doesn't talk about Gen Alpha. They're not on his radar yet when he wrote the book. And so according to this chart, pew research draws the line for Gen Alpha at 2012.

Nick Clason (03:40):
But again, the reason why any of this matters, not to bog you down with dates and things like that is that if you're a youth pastor or if you're in church leadership, what you need to understand is that the conversation we're having is like, do we take Elmore's date or do we take Pew Research's Day or do we take exploding topics day? Whatever it is, the reason this matters is because this is a difference between is that kid in kid's ministry or is that kid in youth ministry? And if we're talking about youth group numbers and youth group attendance, we need to understand Gen Alpha, but we also need to understand Gen Z. The kicker on this is that Gen Z, really the youngest Gen Z that we have is going to be freshmen, sophomores in high school, and now after that they're waving on up, they're in college already and they are entering the workforce.

Nick Clason (04:23):
So if you are not a youth pastor, but just like a regular pastor listening, no longer is Gen Z, something that the youth pastor needs to try and understand and uncover this matters for you. This is important for you as a pastor. And so if you've gotten value so far out of this video, I would love to encourage you to like and subscribe and hit the notification bell because we're actually in the middle of a series right now, the 2024 Youth Ministry Masterclass, this is section number two in that class. The rest of them are going to be dropped in the playlist that's linked down below in the description. So if you have not seen every single video, go back and check out video number one. We talked about time management, but without any further ado here, let's dive into the three key findings about Generation Z, generation alpha and church attendance in youth ministry moving forward in 2024 and frankly beyond.

Nick Clason (05:12):
All right, so the three key findings that are really important to understand about Generation Z and Gen Alpha is a lot of this data pulled from Pew research articles pulled and included in the description, whether you're in a podcast catcher or on YouTube, if you are not watching on YouTube, you will notice that some charts and graphs and stuff like that are going to show up on screen here on YouTube. If you're not watching, you're just listening, you can go grab the link in the show notes at http://www.hybridministry.xyz, and this is episode 78, so slash 0 7 8. But the first key finding that I want to share with you is this is that most teens share the same religious affiliation as their parents, meaning this, your attendance as a youth pastor, youth ministry leader is highly derived from the adult attendance in your church.

Nick Clason (06:00):
You've probably heard this before, but that's why it's important that we don't have silos. It's just as important for you as a youth pastor to lean in to what is going on in the rest of your church. You can't neglect it, you can't forsake it, and you can't take on a posture of arrogance that what you're doing is better than the rest of the church. Even if you low key think that the fact of the matter is that your youth ministry attendance is highly, highly tied to your adult attendance. So if your church is growing, odds are your youth ministry is growing, and if your church is struggling, odds are your youth ministry might be struggling. The biggest dropoff that you'll notice in this graph here and in this research from Pew is that the biggest dropoff from parents who attend church to teenagers who attend church happens in mainline denominations where the highest proportion is in evangelical churches.

Nick Clason (06:53):
Key finding. Number two, teens are just as likely as their parents to say that they go to services, but when it comes to more personal forms of religious expression, teens actually appear to be less devout and less religious. I have a stat I want to share with you from my own context, my own anecdotal experience in our church, cross Creek Church located in Colleyville, Texas, we have four parts to a four-part discipleship pathway. So we have explore, which is people who are far from God looking for God or maybe seeking God connect. And so once they've made a decision, cross the line, faith, connect with Jesus, connect with this church, connect with community, grow, grow in your faith, get closer to God, learn to walk with God, learn to invest in a few, learn to multiply. And then finally, the fourth one is a multiplier.

Nick Clason (07:38):
Someone who is not only making disciples, but making disciples who makes disciples. So we're very christocentric, disciple making, Bible-based church, all that to be said, we explained all of that one day on a Sunday morning to our students and we asked them to self-identify where they would put themselves in the pathway, explore, connect, grow, multiply. We used kind of pulled from one of my favorite books, link in the show notes, Dan Bader's book four chair discipling. So we used four different chairs to illustrate the sections of the pathway. The explorer phase was illustrated by a camping chair because it's really mobile portable. You can get close to church, then you can pull it back away if that's a decision that you want to make. We talked about how the connect chair is actually like a recliner. People tend to get across that line of faith and then get very fat and happy.

Nick Clason (08:23):
The grow chair is one that's marked by suffering and sacrifice, and so we got the hard metal chair, the one that hurts your butt when you sit in it for a little bit too long. And then finally the multiply phase was illustrated by a couch because the goal of it is to bring people back onto that couch with you, go back down through the pipeline, go back down through the process. So we illustrated that and we asked students to self-identify. We had 40.76 of our students say that they were in the connect phase, the recliner phase, but the overwhelming majority said that they were in 45.2% said that they were in the grow phase. So nearly half of our students self-identified as being in the grow phase where only like 4% said they're in the explore phase, and 9.5 said they were actually all the way in the multiply phase.

Nick Clason (09:07):
Now we have identifiers in our church metrics that we say if you've done these three or four things, then you are in this phase and you've moved on to the next phase. So we can pull that data on our students as well, but this is just them classifying themselves. I now lead a group of four other guys on a Sunday morning in our grow phase, we have a book that we go through a curriculum, and we just got done with the first book. There's three totals. So we just got done with the first book. It's seven weeks. It's daily reading. I mean it's a high bar. Every single one of them. At the beginning of this time, they said, I read the Bible, I pray I do all this stuff. Now that we've actually been in it, now that the rubber has met the road.

Nick Clason (09:49):
At the end of this, all of their summarization of it was like, man, this was a lot more than I'm used to. And one of the kids said back to this, teens are just as, they may go to service, but they may not practice religious expression. Part of the problem is they've gone to church so much, and so they know what the right answers are and they know what they should be doing. And so even when you ask them, how do you grow in your faith? What are you doing to grow in your faith? They would answer with the right answers. Well, I pray, read the Bible, but they all admitted at the end of it, you always said that, but we weren't really actually doing it, at least not at this level. So that just bears it out in that key finding. Key finding.

Nick Clason (10:29):
Number three, most teens report attending religious services with either both at 40% or one 25% of their parents. Again, meaning your attendance is again highly derived from your adult attendance. Again, in my own context, our own experience or Wednesday night, we would mostly say that that's classified under the explore classification. So let's bring outsiders and we probably, we average somewhere south of 45 to 40% of our Sunday morning attendance, which is our second step in our pathway, our connect phase. So I would not say that we have more students in connect than in the explore phase. What I would actually say is that Sunday morning is more convenient and that's when parents, and that's when students are also naturally making Sunday morning or just any church attendance a priority. And so that's the reason why I believe that our attendance is a little bit out of balance between Wednesday night and Sunday morning, and that's not a problem to be solved.

Nick Clason (11:29):
It's more attention to lean into and be managed, but it really just underscores this point that most teens attend church with either a parent or a single parent, meaning once again, like I said, your students are attending church either with both parents at 40% or one parent at 25%. Again, as much as we think that our programming is so relevant, captivating, so much better than the rest of the church, the reality is our success as youth pastors is often tied to the overall success of the church. However, I do think that there is something that matters and that there is something that we need to focus our mindset to shift a little bit on. So let's dive into that into the next section. All right, so the shift that I believe all of us should consider if 57% of born again claim Christians, self-proclaimed Christians are not attending church online or in person at least one time per month, I think that you and I should consider finding a way to go hybrid.

Nick Clason (12:26):
And I know you said, Hey, hey, hey, that last stat that said they weren't going online or in person. When I say hybrid, I don't just mean streaming your services. That can be an element of it, but I really believe that's a small portion of a good digital strategy. And again, I hear you. You're like, dude, I don't have time for it, and I get it. It is a lot of work and it's going to require a little bit of time management, thankfully, linked down below, I have this playlist where the last video I talked about good time management, but a good digital hybrid integrated strategy is more than just putting a camera in the back of the room and letting someone watch what's going on in the room. You're not interested in that, frankly, and neither am I. We want something that's made for the internet, something like this, something that's more relational, something that's more direct to camera, maybe something that's a little bit more interactive, but find a way to make it more hybrid.

Nick Clason (13:18):
Find a way to make it more integrated. I also hear you on the other side, but churches of family church should be about one-on-one relationships, and I agree with that. Full fledge, a hundred percent church about relationships. The best, most dynamic experiences I ever have is when I'm rubbing shoulders or sitting knee to knee with somebody. However, I'll also make the argument that churches are in the content creation and content production business. Think about it. What do you spend the majority of your time on? Programming, message prep, planning, worship services, small group, all things that are content based, and especially pastors, senior pastors, no offense to you, but Sunday morning services are some of the least relational moments in the entire week in the lifecycle of a church. Here's my deal. I'm a youth pastor, so I get in early, I get set up. Sometimes I'm a little bit late because of my setup into church.

Nick Clason (14:12):
I walk in, I sit down, I sing some songs, I sit down, I stare at the back of someone's head, I listen to a sermon for 30 something minutes. I get up early because I have stuff to do as a youth pastor, to get ready for the student ministry that meets during the last two services of our three service Sunday morning set. I'm not talking to a single human being in that entire service, but what I could do is I could consume all of that digitally. I could listen to it, my headphones on a run. I could listen to that honestly, while I'm across the way in the student building, getting things ready, having the Facebook live stream on in my ears while I'm getting things set up. I'm not saying that I should do that. I'm not saying that that's a recommended strategy, but I am saying the content consumption side, so much of what we're producing content-wise, can be done digitally.

Nick Clason (14:57):
So as youth pastors, as we're trying to reach Gen Z, as we're trying to reach Gen Alpha, a completely different generation, I wonder if it's worth considering a shift from focusing only on to finding a way to be a little bit more hybrid, which is why I've created this 100% completely free ebook right here on the screen, linked down below in the description. Also, you're going to see that as I bring about this bonus question. This is really the crux of this entire kind of argument. The question is this, are we as youth pastors, are we as youth ministry leaders? Are we in the event business or are we in the disciple making business? And you know what the fact of the matter is, we're actually going to dive even deeper into that question on the screen linked right here. So go ahead and take a look at that. If you're interested in exploring more about my hybrid strategy, that ebook, as well as that episode is linked right here on the screen as well. Hey, check you on the other side. Continue to enjoy this free masterclass, and as always, stay hybrid.