📅 "1 Month Done for You Social Media Posting Tool"
https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/free-hybrid-ministry-e-book

2024 [FREE] Youth Ministry Masterclass on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLngXlSr64YaLIJceFHg7w8vxlx5ARqXeg

========================================

DESCRIPTION
📈 How do we get more people to show up to our events?
How do we grow our group?
How do we attract and retain teens?

57% of American Church Goers, according to Pew Research, don’t even attend church once a month!!

👌In this episode we’re going to explore 3 key shifts in our thinking
⚙️And I have the ultimate tool to accessing and resourcing people/students in the digital age.

Subscribe to our channel and don't miss any more videos from the 2024 Youth Ministry Masterclass FREE on YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLngXlSr64YaLIJceFHg7w8vxlx5ARqXeg

========================================
📓SHOWNOTES
//SHOWNOTES & TRANSCRIPTS
http://www.hybridministry.xyz/079

//YOUTUBE VIDEO
https://youtu.be/EzhYluEKZ_I

SHIFT #1 FROM PRODUCTION TO ACCESS
//PEW RESEARCH ARTICLES ON CHURCH ATTENDANCE
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/03/22/more-houses-of-worship-are-returning-to-normal-operations-but-in-person-attendance-is-unchanged-since-fall/?utm_source=adaptivemailer&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=rel%20-%2022-03-22%20worship%20attendance&org=982&lvl=100&ite=9703&lea=2048393&ctr=0&par=1&trk=a0d3j0000112o9deae

//TERRY PARKMAN
https://www.terryparkman.com/

//GEN ALPHA DATA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHpeDaLS3oo

//PRO CHURCH TOOLS
https://prochurchtools.com/

//FULL DIGITAL STRATEGY
https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/free-hybrid-ministry-e-book

SHIFT #2 FROM PERFORMANCE TO ENGAGEMENT

//EVERY YOUTH MINISTRY NEEDS A GOOD DIGITAL PRESENCE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDxepdu4iiM

SHIFT #3 FROM QUANTITY TO COMMUNITY

//THE QUESTIONS OF BELONGING
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHpeDaLS3oo

//WORLD'S GREATEST DONUT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ryhkIRyDb4

//MASTER YOUR TIME
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlS1kWcQBS8

👉 STAY CONNECTED WITH NICK
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@clasonnick
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hybridministry/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@clasonnick
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HybridMinistry
Website: https://www.hybridministry.xyz

========================================

🆓 FREEBIES 🆓
📅 "1 Month Done for You Social Media Posting Tool"
https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/free-hybrid-ministry-e-book

🎅 "The Ultimate (and FREE!) Christmas Party Gude"
GUIDE: https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/christmas-party-run-sheet
PRACTICAL YM TIPS: https://www.youtube.com/@practicalyouthministrytips

🍩 "FREE World's Greatest Donut Event Guide"
GUIDE: https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/worlds-greatest-donut

😨 "Have I already Ruined my TikTok Account?"
https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/ebook

📹 "Adobe Premiere Pro Presets for Animating Layers"
https://share.hsforms.com/1VL1oWwWwQ82PLwsPFkPITgnumis

========================================
🛠️TOOLS
Some of the below links are affilate links in which we do recieve a small commission based on your purchase or use of products

//BEST DYM RESOURCES
https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/dym

OPUS.PRO FOR AI SHORTS & REELS
https://www.opus.pro/?via=a5d361

//YOUTUBE STARTER KIT FOR UNDER $100
https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/youtubestarterkit

AUTO POD
https://autopod.lemonsqueezy.com?aff=MX7Vv

TRY REV.COM FOR TRANSCRIBING
https://rev.pxf.io/R5nDOa

--------------
🕰️TIMECODES
00:00-01:21 Event Coordinator? Or Disciple-Maker?
01:21-07:18 SHIFT #1 from PRODUCTION to ACCESS
07:18-09:20 SHIFT #2 from PERFORMANCE to ENGAGEMENT
09:20-16:14 SHIFT #3 from QUANTITY to COMMUNITY

✍️TRANSCRIPT
Try Transcribing for Yourself at Rev.Com
http://www.rev.pxf.io/R5nDOa

Nick Clason (00:00):
Youth pastors. How do we get more people to show up to our events? How do we grow the size of our youth groups? How do we attract and retain teenagers? See, all these questions are common questions. They're things that we're all facing at least at some level. And regardless of if you think that the attendance debate matters or not, we talked about it in our very last video linked up here in our playlist, in our youth ministry 2024 masterclass that we are going through completely free all here online on YouTube. Love to have you subscribe, check it out, and make sure you don't miss another one. We talked about the church attendance conundrum because 54% of American Christians are not attending church according to Pew Research at least one time per month. So in this episode, I want to talk to you about three key shifts that are going to help us reach the next generation as we explore this question.

Nick Clason (00:50):
Are we in the event making business or are we in the disciple making business? And I also have the ultimate tool that I believe can help you become more accessible in resourcing both your people and your students in this new found digital age. Like I said, we'd love to have you subscribe, like leave a comment, leave a rating, leave a review. All of those things help us get found and make sure that you can get the very next episode as soon as it drops episode 80 in our 2024 Youth Ministry masterclass. Welcome to the Hybrid Ministry Show. Well, everyone, my name's Nick Clason. I'm a youth pastor in DFW Dallas Fort Worth. Been in youth ministry now being January of 2024. Mark's my 13th year in youth ministry and I've most recently went to a conference with the Gen Z guru himself. Terry Parkman. If you don't know Terry, he's amazing, but he talked about some of these shifts, so I just want to kind of elaborate on them and kick some of them around a little bit more.

Nick Clason (01:46):
But he talked about the difference that Generation Z and now subsequently generation Alpha, who if you didn't see in our last episode, we classified them being born somewhere between 2010 and 2018, probably more than 2012 rage, which is what Pew research kind of settles on as the origin date of generation alpha. Nonetheless, Terry Parkman specifically talking about Gen Z, talks about the shift in thinking from Gen Z who thinks more in a digital age, digital mindset versus all of US millennials and older Gen x boomers and so on and so forth, who are more raised in a industrial aged way of thinking and industrial age way frankly of living. And so what the first shift that is important that he talks about is we need to shift from an industrial minded way of production, which is an industrial value to one of access. The way that we talk about it is just simply build access points onto your ministry, so an industrial way of thinking and the production value production kind of mindset.

Nick Clason (02:54):
Think about seeker style churches back in the early nineties or early two thousands where you may open with a secular song, one that's familiar, one that's relatable. You may try to go for relevant lighting, you may really try to put the entire screws down on the production, the value of how important production is, and that a really well-produced thing will draw out consumers, it's almost like the mentality if we build it, they will come. It also comes down to simply how much can we produce the amount of production value that we can add? The more production value that we can add, the better, the greater, the higher the number, the more that we can produce, the more that we can attract. That's an industrial way of thinking. Meanwhile, a digital way of thinking, they don't necessarily Gen Z Gen and Alpha and the generations that are coming on behind, they don't necessarily want those things.

Nick Clason (03:49):
They're looking more for access. They're wondering, do I fit here? Can I gain access to this place and how can I let my gifts be utilized and flourish and shine here? Honestly, one of my number one pet peeves in churches is when we from a volunteer aspect say things like, we need you to do our job. That is not enticing in any way, shape, or form, and it's especially not enticing to the next generation. What I think they otherwise might more importantly, more interestingly want to hear is, Hey, we want you to shine here and how can we partner with you to make a difference in this world? It goes from US centric to them centric, and I get it. I'm hearing you scream on the other side, but that's not what a disciple of Jesus does. Correct. However, how are we ever going to be relevant and make any sort of inroads with the next generation?

Nick Clason (04:46):
If the way in which we posture ourselves is fundamentally and vehemently different than them, are we asking them to acquiesce to us as opposed to us finding ways that it's not that big of a deal to make a subtle shift? Because in the same way, we can still ask Gen Z and Gen Alpha to serve, we are just making it them centric instead of US centric. And again, you might be screaming that they shouldn't be them centric, but isn't it just as Unbiblical and Christlike for us to be US centric, organization centric, pastor centric in the land of access points. Our church right now, honestly, probably right now as I'm recording this on a random night in December, we have these things, these events, and they're amazing and they get talked about and they get promoted and they're all over social, and someone asked me how do I sign up for it and do you know what?

Nick Clason (05:37):
I said? I work there at the church, I don't actually have anything to do with it, and obviously I'm not there right now. I said, I have no idea. We have these events. There's sort of this lore about them, but how to actually access it. It's confusing, and I frankly haven't tried, so that's probably on me, but point of it is, is your church accessible? How easy to navigate is your website. I love what Brady Sheer and all of them at Pro Church Tools up in Canada say all the time and say, make your website, be a one stop shop. Don't for one thing, go sign up via the bulletin for the other thing. Send an email for the third thing, head to the website and for the fourth thing, find someone in the lobby. You never know what to do, where to go, and so only the most loyal and only the person with the most headstrong sort of stubbornness is going to ever actually find anything out.

Nick Clason (06:29):
Anybody else who comes upon any sort of roadblock or opposition, all of a sudden it's just really easy for them to crumble. And here's the fact, I don't believe I have all the answers, but one of the ways in which we are trying to create more access points in our ministry is through our digital strategy, which I have completely laid out in my 100% completely free ebook free for you. Grab the link, go download it. All I need is your name. All I need is your email and that's it. It's yours to use. It's my strategy that I've used to grow YouTube channel in a year from zero subscribers all the way up to almost 400 subscribers. It might be even past 400 by the time that this video actually drops, it's completely laid out. It's basically my social media masterclass and guess what I gave it and I'm giving it to you for free, and I would love to encourage you to just grab it, try it, implement it, and check it all out.

Nick Clason (07:18):
Shift number two is we need to shift from performance based and industrial way of thinking to more engagement based. So if you think about an industrial way of thinking where performance is king, think about the best, the prettiest, the nicest, the smelliest people on stage with a good swath of diversity and all those things, or just even in youth ministry, we've all sort of had the basis of like, let's just have some fun, and if the kids have fun, then they'll definitely want to come back. If we perform really well for them and we don't screw up, then they'll be like, man, that place was so good. I just want to come back. That's an industrial way of thinking, and here's the problem. If you are a youth pastor and you're my age or you're a millennial, that's the way that you think because that's the way and that's the age in which you were raised in.

Nick Clason (08:03):
To think that that's what is valued, but the next generation that's more in a digital age, they're not worried about performance. They want to know, am I able to engage with this? When it's all about performance, think about a conveyor belt and a factory. The way that that goes is if there's a certain part in the conveyor belt that's causing a backup, what do we do? We just stick another person in there. We don't care what that person does, who that person is, what that person can do for us or our organization. We just want to know, can that person keep the conveyor belt from stopping? Can that person keep the performance going? But a digital way of thinking, a digital shift when you go from performance to more engagement based thinking is you're wondering, Hey, how can we create good content that students want to engage with?

Nick Clason (08:48):
Which is why I link right down below or right up here on the screen, whichever one, I'm not sure if I've used my card yet or not in this video, but every youth ministry needs a good digital presence. It's my full YouTube strategy. It's my full social media strategy. It's the one that's tied to my ebook. It's the video explaining the ebook if you want to go check that out. Again, I don't have all the answers. It's just my way to sort of attempt to try and engage more with our students who are different, who are digital thinkers, who are Gen Z and coming quick behind them, generation alpha. The third shift is we need to switch from a value of quantity to a value of community, an industrial way of thinking. We are entirely built in most churches for quantity. Think about it. If you have a church with auditorium style seating, the goal of that room is to get the most amount of quantity of people in to listen to one captivating speaker, wax eloquent for a week, and listen, honestly, no shade thrown.

Nick Clason (09:48):
Most pastors, you're really good at your job, you're good at crafting sermons and you're good at delivering sermons, but the fact of the matter is, while you may be awesome at it, that's just not what's as highly valued in our world, especially in the world of digital. With audio, podcasts, YouTube podcast, people can listen to audio books, sermons. They can listen to the best preachers in the entire world. Again, no offense to you at the drop of a hat, instantly binging them, never actually running out of content. That's how accessible all of this stuff is, and so when people come to church, they don't want to just be another number kind of filtered into the auditorium to look at the back of someone's seat. That's why I believe link down below in the show notes. In this episode, we talked about why churches are dying.

Nick Clason (10:32):
I think churches are not adapting to the new issues and the new way of thinking that this next generation is so adamant about, and again, that generation, this next generation, this digital way of generation, they're not looking for a room to come and consume some more content. They're looking for community. And so if our rooms are built for quantity, thus they're not then built at least optimally for community. I mean, I know I worked at a church one time that we had Longwood ews and they were bolted to the ground. We couldn't do anything about those things, and even if they weren't bolted to the ground, they were heavy as sin. Man, I could not lift one of those things because once we finally did try to lift them, I was like, dang, who got these in here? It's like a five man job. The goal was get these things in here, never to be moved again.

Nick Clason (11:22):
This room is for one purpose and one purpose only, and the purpose that most younger people are looking for is not that. A dangerous way I believe of thinking is that we often value a Christian culture more than the Christ of the culture, and so therefore, I believe that what we're trying to do is we're trying to force people into a way of thinking, and when community trump's performance, we actually get a messy, authentic, real interaction with other believers who love Jesus and are trying to pursue and follow him. And so in a digital way of thinking, I think people who value community are looking for asking questions like, where do I belong? And are these people at my church? Are they my people? The students, they're asking those questions and they may, like we said in our last video and this masterclass in video two, this is not video three, they may be asking, are these people my people?

Nick Clason (12:15):
And they may be coming to your youth ministry, and just because they're there doesn't necessarily mean that they're engaging in religious practice. And it also doesn't necessarily mean that they're there because they want to be, because almost 50% of no, it's 65% of students come to church with at least one parent. That's where they're coming to church. They're not coming to church. They love God. They're not coming to church. They love you. They're not coming to church. They love your youth ministry. They're coming to church. They're coming to church with their parents, but if they can find a real captivating community that they can't say no to, they're not going anywhere. So it's not about what you produce, it's about the community that's available to them. We live now with the very first global generation. Students spend on average, shockingly five to eight hours on their phones screens per day.

Nick Clason (13:06):
The church world was built for consumers, and what's happening now is in that generation what's being internalized, they want to find a place to externalize it. And so one of the ideas that I have, again, I don't have all the answers, I don't know if this is a good idea or not. We did it in our space. It seemed to work well. It's a hybrid event. It's called the World's Greatest Donut, completely free event guide right here. You can click it, and it's just an opportunity to engage with students beyond your program times because I think a lot of times what we try to do is we try to get as many people, as much quantity into a room and call that success. What I'm trying to do is I'm trying to expand the relationship beyond just the one time per week, and that's what this event is all built on.

Nick Clason (13:46):
It's a one-time event for an in-person event, however it lives on for an entire month. Not only live in the room, but it also lives live on your social media. That's the in-person versus the digital creating a hybrid moment together. Hey, the ultimate tool that I teased at the beginning of this video is, and I've already said it, it's my ebook. It's my full digital strategy. The fact is I don't have it all together, but the way in which you can utilize that is you have to become a master of your time, which is a video that's linked right here on the screen. It was a couple of videos ago, and the next video in this playlist is how to implement a good social media strategy where you're not simply just posting announcements. Click either one of those and we would love to see you on the other side. And as always, my friends stay hybrid.

📅 "1 Month Done for You Social Media Posting Tool"
https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/free-hybrid-ministry-e-book

2024 [FREE] Youth Ministry Masterclass on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLngXlSr64YaLIJceFHg7w8vxlx5ARqXeg

Try Sidekick Beta!!
https://app.sidekick.tv/auth/create?code=NickClason

========================================

DESCRIPTION
📈 Youth Ministry Growth and Attendance

🔢 Do number really matter?

😤 It’s an agonizing pursuit that all of us as youth pastors and leaders are constantly feel the tension.

Whether we buy into the debate or not, pressure is real.

Maybe pressure from your senior pastor
Maybe pressure from other parents
Maybe even pressure from yourself

And furthermore, according to Pew Research, one in five church goeers in 2022 participated in virtual church once a month.
However, 57% did not attend in person or watch online per month.
Not just anyone in general.. But Americans who TYPICALLY attend services.

How do we reach Generation Z or Generation Alpha students?
Especially in light of this new reality?

Subscribe to our channel and don't miss any more videos from the 2024 Youth Ministry Masterclass FREE on YouTube

========================================

🆓 FREEBIES 🆓
📅 "1 Month Done for You Social Media Posting Tool"
https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/free-hybrid-ministry-e-book

🎅 "The Ultimate (and FREE!) Christmas Party Gude"
GUIDE: https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/christmas-party-run-sheet
PRACTICAL YM TIPS: https://www.youtube.com/@practicalyouthministrytips

🍩 "FREE World's Greatest Donut Event Guide"
GUIDE: https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/worlds-greatest-donut

😨 "Have I already Ruined my TikTok Account?"
https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/ebook

📹 "Adobe Premiere Pro Presets for Animating Layers"
https://share.hsforms.com/1VL1oWwWwQ82PLwsPFkPITgnumis

========================================
🛠️TOOLS
Some of the below links are affilate links in which we do recieve a small commission based on your purchase or use of products

//BEST DYM RESOURCES
https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/dym

OPUS.PRO FOR AI SHORTS & REELS
https://www.opus.pro/?via=a5d361

//YOUTUBE STARTER KIT FOR UNDER $100
https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/youtubestarterkit

AUTO POD
https://autopod.lemonsqueezy.com?aff=MX7Vv

TRY REV.COM FOR TRANSCRIBING
https://rev.pxf.io/R5nDOa

👉 STAY CONNECTED WITH NICK
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@clasonnick
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hybridministry/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@clasonnick
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HybridMinistry

Website: https://www.hybridministry.xyz

📓SHOWNOTES
//SHOWNOTES & TRANSCRIPTS
http://www.hybridministry.xyz/078

//YOUTUBE VIDEO
https://youtu.be/BHpeDaLS3oo

//PEW RESEARCH ARTICLES ON CHURCH ATTENDANCE
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/03/22/more-houses-of-worship-are-returning-to-normal-operations-but-in-person-attendance-is-unchanged-since-fall/?utm_source=adaptivemailer&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=rel%20-%2022-03-22%20worship%20attendance&org=982&lvl=100&ite=9703&lea=2048393&ctr=0&par=1&trk=a0d3j0000112o9deae

//DATA ON GEN ALPHA
https://explodingtopics.com/blog/generation-alpha-guide

//DR. ELMORE'S BOOK
https://www.amazon.com/Generation-Unfiltered-Challenges-Anxious-Population-ebook/dp/B07YQ9XT8N/ref=sr_1_2?hvadid=580669290679&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9027211&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=8887138684661202423&hvtargid=kwd-831658052586&hydadcr=24309_13537702&keywords=gen+z+unfiltered&qid=1701783263&sr=8-2

//TEEN CHURCH ATTENDANCE PATTERNS
https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2020/09/10/u-s-teens-take-after-their-parents-religiously-attend-services-together-and-enjoy-family-rituals/

//TEENS AND THEIR PARENTS
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2020/09/10/10-key-findings-about-the-religious-lives-of-u-s-teens-and-their-parents/

//4 CHAIR DISCIPLING
https://www.amazon.com/Chair-Discipling-What-Jesus-Calls/dp/0802418813/ref=asc_df_0802418813/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=266167140404&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13879828523234723627&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9027211&hvtargid=pla-557460291481&psc=1&mcid=c72abb3a6997315793653dc9cbd8d965&gclid=CjwKCAiApuCrBhAuEiwA8VJ6Jry6x6cwpQRcpt1hnTOOVAIdS6r9rmBPSQleT8QwxqgYzqAeu6RyuBoCFo4QAvD_BwE

//GOOD TIME MANAGEMENT FOR A HYBRID STRATEGY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlS1kWcQBS8

🕰️TIMECODES
00:00-02:05 Do numbers matter?
02:05-05:30 Who are Generation Z and Generation Alpha?
05:30-07:13 Attendance Finding 1: Teens share religion with parents
07:13-10:48 Attendance Finding 2: Teens go to service, but don't engage in religious practices
10:48-16:22 Attendance Finding 3: Teens attend church with one or both of their parents

✍️TRANSCRIPT
Try Transcribing for Yourself at Rev.Com
http://www.rev.pxf.io/R5nDOa

Nick Clason (00:00):
Youth ministry growth in attendance in the age old Questions do numbers really matter? Here's what I know. I was one time called by a church that said, Hey, just a couple weeks ago in our church of multiple thousands, we've had only eight students show up. So whether you buy into the debate or not, the pressure is always there. Maybe pressure from your senior pastor, maybe pressure from youth parents, maybe even internal pressure that you just put on yourself. And what's even crazier is according to Pew Research, one in five, churchgoers back in 2022, participated in a virtual church service at least one time, which is a good thing. I mean, heck, we're in the hybrid ministry podcast, you know what I'm saying? However, 57% did not attend church in person or watch online during the course of at least one month, which means greater than 50%, not just of anyone in general of churchgoers are not typically attending church services.

Nick Clason (01:05):
So how in the world with that as the framework for church attendance and the way that youth ministry attendance is going, how in the world do we even reach Gen Z and Gen Alpha students, especially in light of this brand new reality? We're going to be sharing in this episode three key findings about teens and their attendance trends. And furthermore, I'm going to share with you one way that I as a youth pastor am shifting my thinking and maybe you can also shift your thinking about reaching this next generation. And finally, I have a bonus tip that I think is going to actually be the number one game changer in this entire conversation. Welcome to the Hybrid Ministry Show. You're in youth ministry, or if you're just a church leader and you're at least overseeing at some level some capacity, generation Z generation alpha, it's important because we're talking about youth group attendance and it's important to understand who we're actually talking about.

Nick Clason (02:01):
So Generation Z and Generation Alpha are kind of the two generations in play in this conversation. In fact, I have a video linked at the top of the screen. Go ahead and check it out where we did a deep dive into Generation Alpha and started to explore them. And quite frankly, it's one of the only videos I know that's out there about Generation Alpha. The data is still really new and still really young because the fact of the matter is that according to exploding topics.com link in the description, if you're watching on YouTube, you might be able to see some of these things online. If you're not watching on YouTube, you should definitely check that out. But Gen Alpha is made up of people born between 2010 and 2025. Wait, what? 2025? Yeah, you heard that, right? They're not even born yet. Okay. And so the fact of the matter is that that data actually is in opposition to some other experts such as Tim Elmore, who by the way, I have a chart right here on screen.

Nick Clason (02:53):
Again, if you're not watching on YouTube, go grab it or link in the show notes. It's from his book, generation Z Unfiltered, the Nine Hidden Challenges of Facing the Most Anxious Population of All Time. This chart is absolute goal, but you'll notice that he draws the line for the end of generation Z at 2018. So we have exploding topics at 2010. We have Tim Elmore at 2018, all of that to be said, Elmore's book is a little bit dated, and so I think that more research and just time we've honed in a little bit and gotten a little bit closer. And so while this chart is gold, you should definitely look at it and inspect it and learn a little bit more. Elmore doesn't talk about Gen Alpha. They're not on his radar yet when he wrote the book. And so according to this chart, pew research draws the line for Gen Alpha at 2012.

Nick Clason (03:40):
But again, the reason why any of this matters, not to bog you down with dates and things like that is that if you're a youth pastor or if you're in church leadership, what you need to understand is that the conversation we're having is like, do we take Elmore's date or do we take Pew Research's Day or do we take exploding topics day? Whatever it is, the reason this matters is because this is a difference between is that kid in kid's ministry or is that kid in youth ministry? And if we're talking about youth group numbers and youth group attendance, we need to understand Gen Alpha, but we also need to understand Gen Z. The kicker on this is that Gen Z, really the youngest Gen Z that we have is going to be freshmen, sophomores in high school, and now after that they're waving on up, they're in college already and they are entering the workforce.

Nick Clason (04:23):
So if you are not a youth pastor, but just like a regular pastor listening, no longer is Gen Z, something that the youth pastor needs to try and understand and uncover this matters for you. This is important for you as a pastor. And so if you've gotten value so far out of this video, I would love to encourage you to like and subscribe and hit the notification bell because we're actually in the middle of a series right now, the 2024 Youth Ministry Masterclass, this is section number two in that class. The rest of them are going to be dropped in the playlist that's linked down below in the description. So if you have not seen every single video, go back and check out video number one. We talked about time management, but without any further ado here, let's dive into the three key findings about Generation Z, generation alpha and church attendance in youth ministry moving forward in 2024 and frankly beyond.

Nick Clason (05:12):
All right, so the three key findings that are really important to understand about Generation Z and Gen Alpha is a lot of this data pulled from Pew research articles pulled and included in the description, whether you're in a podcast catcher or on YouTube, if you are not watching on YouTube, you will notice that some charts and graphs and stuff like that are going to show up on screen here on YouTube. If you're not watching, you're just listening, you can go grab the link in the show notes at http://www.hybridministry.xyz, and this is episode 78, so slash 0 7 8. But the first key finding that I want to share with you is this is that most teens share the same religious affiliation as their parents, meaning this, your attendance as a youth pastor, youth ministry leader is highly derived from the adult attendance in your church.

Nick Clason (06:00):
You've probably heard this before, but that's why it's important that we don't have silos. It's just as important for you as a youth pastor to lean in to what is going on in the rest of your church. You can't neglect it, you can't forsake it, and you can't take on a posture of arrogance that what you're doing is better than the rest of the church. Even if you low key think that the fact of the matter is that your youth ministry attendance is highly, highly tied to your adult attendance. So if your church is growing, odds are your youth ministry is growing, and if your church is struggling, odds are your youth ministry might be struggling. The biggest dropoff that you'll notice in this graph here and in this research from Pew is that the biggest dropoff from parents who attend church to teenagers who attend church happens in mainline denominations where the highest proportion is in evangelical churches.

Nick Clason (06:53):
Key finding. Number two, teens are just as likely as their parents to say that they go to services, but when it comes to more personal forms of religious expression, teens actually appear to be less devout and less religious. I have a stat I want to share with you from my own context, my own anecdotal experience in our church, cross Creek Church located in Colleyville, Texas, we have four parts to a four-part discipleship pathway. So we have explore, which is people who are far from God looking for God or maybe seeking God connect. And so once they've made a decision, cross the line, faith, connect with Jesus, connect with this church, connect with community, grow, grow in your faith, get closer to God, learn to walk with God, learn to invest in a few, learn to multiply. And then finally, the fourth one is a multiplier.

Nick Clason (07:38):
Someone who is not only making disciples, but making disciples who makes disciples. So we're very christocentric, disciple making, Bible-based church, all that to be said, we explained all of that one day on a Sunday morning to our students and we asked them to self-identify where they would put themselves in the pathway, explore, connect, grow, multiply. We used kind of pulled from one of my favorite books, link in the show notes, Dan Bader's book four chair discipling. So we used four different chairs to illustrate the sections of the pathway. The explorer phase was illustrated by a camping chair because it's really mobile portable. You can get close to church, then you can pull it back away if that's a decision that you want to make. We talked about how the connect chair is actually like a recliner. People tend to get across that line of faith and then get very fat and happy.

Nick Clason (08:23):
The grow chair is one that's marked by suffering and sacrifice, and so we got the hard metal chair, the one that hurts your butt when you sit in it for a little bit too long. And then finally the multiply phase was illustrated by a couch because the goal of it is to bring people back onto that couch with you, go back down through the pipeline, go back down through the process. So we illustrated that and we asked students to self-identify. We had 40.76 of our students say that they were in the connect phase, the recliner phase, but the overwhelming majority said that they were in 45.2% said that they were in the grow phase. So nearly half of our students self-identified as being in the grow phase where only like 4% said they're in the explore phase, and 9.5 said they were actually all the way in the multiply phase.

Nick Clason (09:07):
Now we have identifiers in our church metrics that we say if you've done these three or four things, then you are in this phase and you've moved on to the next phase. So we can pull that data on our students as well, but this is just them classifying themselves. I now lead a group of four other guys on a Sunday morning in our grow phase, we have a book that we go through a curriculum, and we just got done with the first book. There's three totals. So we just got done with the first book. It's seven weeks. It's daily reading. I mean it's a high bar. Every single one of them. At the beginning of this time, they said, I read the Bible, I pray I do all this stuff. Now that we've actually been in it, now that the rubber has met the road.

Nick Clason (09:49):
At the end of this, all of their summarization of it was like, man, this was a lot more than I'm used to. And one of the kids said back to this, teens are just as, they may go to service, but they may not practice religious expression. Part of the problem is they've gone to church so much, and so they know what the right answers are and they know what they should be doing. And so even when you ask them, how do you grow in your faith? What are you doing to grow in your faith? They would answer with the right answers. Well, I pray, read the Bible, but they all admitted at the end of it, you always said that, but we weren't really actually doing it, at least not at this level. So that just bears it out in that key finding. Key finding.

Nick Clason (10:29):
Number three, most teens report attending religious services with either both at 40% or one 25% of their parents. Again, meaning your attendance is again highly derived from your adult attendance. Again, in my own context, our own experience or Wednesday night, we would mostly say that that's classified under the explore classification. So let's bring outsiders and we probably, we average somewhere south of 45 to 40% of our Sunday morning attendance, which is our second step in our pathway, our connect phase. So I would not say that we have more students in connect than in the explore phase. What I would actually say is that Sunday morning is more convenient and that's when parents, and that's when students are also naturally making Sunday morning or just any church attendance a priority. And so that's the reason why I believe that our attendance is a little bit out of balance between Wednesday night and Sunday morning, and that's not a problem to be solved.

Nick Clason (11:29):
It's more attention to lean into and be managed, but it really just underscores this point that most teens attend church with either a parent or a single parent, meaning once again, like I said, your students are attending church either with both parents at 40% or one parent at 25%. Again, as much as we think that our programming is so relevant, captivating, so much better than the rest of the church, the reality is our success as youth pastors is often tied to the overall success of the church. However, I do think that there is something that matters and that there is something that we need to focus our mindset to shift a little bit on. So let's dive into that into the next section. All right, so the shift that I believe all of us should consider if 57% of born again claim Christians, self-proclaimed Christians are not attending church online or in person at least one time per month, I think that you and I should consider finding a way to go hybrid.

Nick Clason (12:26):
And I know you said, Hey, hey, hey, that last stat that said they weren't going online or in person. When I say hybrid, I don't just mean streaming your services. That can be an element of it, but I really believe that's a small portion of a good digital strategy. And again, I hear you. You're like, dude, I don't have time for it, and I get it. It is a lot of work and it's going to require a little bit of time management, thankfully, linked down below, I have this playlist where the last video I talked about good time management, but a good digital hybrid integrated strategy is more than just putting a camera in the back of the room and letting someone watch what's going on in the room. You're not interested in that, frankly, and neither am I. We want something that's made for the internet, something like this, something that's more relational, something that's more direct to camera, maybe something that's a little bit more interactive, but find a way to make it more hybrid.

Nick Clason (13:18):
Find a way to make it more integrated. I also hear you on the other side, but churches of family church should be about one-on-one relationships, and I agree with that. Full fledge, a hundred percent church about relationships. The best, most dynamic experiences I ever have is when I'm rubbing shoulders or sitting knee to knee with somebody. However, I'll also make the argument that churches are in the content creation and content production business. Think about it. What do you spend the majority of your time on? Programming, message prep, planning, worship services, small group, all things that are content based, and especially pastors, senior pastors, no offense to you, but Sunday morning services are some of the least relational moments in the entire week in the lifecycle of a church. Here's my deal. I'm a youth pastor, so I get in early, I get set up. Sometimes I'm a little bit late because of my setup into church.

Nick Clason (14:12):
I walk in, I sit down, I sing some songs, I sit down, I stare at the back of someone's head, I listen to a sermon for 30 something minutes. I get up early because I have stuff to do as a youth pastor, to get ready for the student ministry that meets during the last two services of our three service Sunday morning set. I'm not talking to a single human being in that entire service, but what I could do is I could consume all of that digitally. I could listen to it, my headphones on a run. I could listen to that honestly, while I'm across the way in the student building, getting things ready, having the Facebook live stream on in my ears while I'm getting things set up. I'm not saying that I should do that. I'm not saying that that's a recommended strategy, but I am saying the content consumption side, so much of what we're producing content-wise, can be done digitally.

Nick Clason (14:57):
So as youth pastors, as we're trying to reach Gen Z, as we're trying to reach Gen Alpha, a completely different generation, I wonder if it's worth considering a shift from focusing only on to finding a way to be a little bit more hybrid, which is why I've created this 100% completely free ebook right here on the screen, linked down below in the description. Also, you're going to see that as I bring about this bonus question. This is really the crux of this entire kind of argument. The question is this, are we as youth pastors, are we as youth ministry leaders? Are we in the event business or are we in the disciple making business? And you know what the fact of the matter is, we're actually going to dive even deeper into that question on the screen linked right here. So go ahead and take a look at that. If you're interested in exploring more about my hybrid strategy, that ebook, as well as that episode is linked right here on the screen as well. Hey, check you on the other side. Continue to enjoy this free masterclass, and as always, stay hybrid.

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DESCRIPTION
👋 Welcome to our YouTube channel & podcast!

🤔 In this thought-provoking video, we delve into the intriguing topic of church attendance in 2023. Join us as we unveil and uncover the hidden truth behind this phenomenon that has been shrouded in mystery.

🚸 Who is Generation Z? Who is Generation Alpha? And what are we doing to reach those students and people in our churches? Because before we know it, Gen Z is going to be the youngest demographic in our church. Where are they? And what is our church doing that's pushing them away?

⚖️ Generation Z is the most justice minded generation the world has ever seen. That should be a dream come true for church leaders? But it's seemed to throw more of a wrench in our plans, than become a strategic advantage to us. How can we respond in a more relvant way?

========================================

🆓 FREEBIES 🆓
📅 "1 Month Done for You Social Media Posting Tool"
https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/free-hybrid-ministry-e-book

😨 "Have I already Ruined my TikTok Account?"
https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/ebook

📹 "Adobe Premiere Pro Presets for Animating Layers"
https://share.hsforms.com/1VL1oWwWwQ82PLwsPFkPITgnumis

========================================
🛠️TOOLS
Some of the below links are affilate links in which we do recieve a small commission based on your purchase or use of products
//YOUTUBE STARTER KIT FOR UNDER $100
https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/youtubestarterkit

AUTO POD
https://autopod.lemonsqueezy.com?aff=MX7Vv

TRY REV.COM FOR TRANSCRIBING
https://rev.pxf.io/R5nDOa

OPUS.PRO FOR AI SHORTS & REELS

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👉 STAY CONNECTED WITH NICK
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@clasonnick
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hybridministry/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@clasonnick

Website: https://www.hybridministry.xyz

📓SHOWNOTES
//SHOWNOTES & TRANSCRIPTS
http://www.hybridministry.xyz/070

//View all the Charts and Graphs via YouTube
https://youtu.be/t5mJyiUFUwo

//Pew Research Post-Pandemic Article
https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2023/03/28/how-the-pandemic-has-affected-attendance-at-u-s-religious-services/#:~:text=This%20longitudinal%20analysis%20finds%20a

//Barna Info on Gen Z
https://shop.barna.com/collections/gen-z

//Deep Dive on Gen Alpha
https://youtu.be/7tVACJFlwpw?si=Iv8oKr4bcYc7Z4cG

//6 Questions About the Future of the Hybrid Church Experience
https://shop.barna.com/products/6-questions-about-the-future-of-the-hybrid-church-experience

🕰️TIMECODES
00:00-00:53 The Drastic Church Attendance Shift of 2023
00:53-02:50 The World is Changing, How should the church rethink ministry and attendance?
02:50-07:45 Exploring the Imperical Data from Pew Research & Barna
07:45-13:11 Why aren't younger people attending church the way we know it?

13:11-18:45 The Real Reason Church Attendance is Down in Younger Generations

✍️TRANSCRIPT
Try Transcribing for Yourself at Rev.Com
rev.pxf.io/R5nDOa

Nick Clason (00:00):
Have you ever wondered what happened to the faithful church attenders? Meaning when you compare this Pew research data from 2019 to 2023, you see that there is a massive dropoff in church attendance when you experience it personally as a youth ministry or church leader, just how big that loss can feel. I'm going to explore in this video the dirty little secret of church attendance for now and for the future, going on past 2023. I'm also going to share with you my anecdotal 13 year youth ministry experience, what I've noticed as a youth pastor, but then also somebody who just is a part of churches and what I've noticed about church attendance during that time. And finally, make sure that you stick around to the very end of this video because I'm going to share with you the one little thing that I think churches are doing that are surprisingly keeping away young people.

Nick Clason (00:52):
Welcome to the Hybrid Ministry Show. Well, hey everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Hybrid Ministry Show. I, as always am your host, Nick Clason, a 13 year youth ministry veteran located in Dallas-Fort Worth area, and I am on a mission to help churches and youth ministries understand and embrace digital as a real form of church ministry and church discipleship. That's why we call it the Hybrid Ministry Show. It's not just physical, it's not just digital, but it's a melding of the two. In fact, I have a video where I talk about what every church youth ministry needs to be doing. It's linked right here at the top of the episode. If you want to check that out and explore my full basis philosophy and digital strategy, you can go ahead and do that. But for the rest of us, we're going to be exploring what church attendance looks like as far as trends and things are looking at for the future.

Nick Clason (01:44):
Because things are different. The world is changing, and because the world is changing, I do believe that churches not need to not drop the core things of their doctrine and their faith and their outlook. But what they do need to do is that they need to start rethinking and adapting how they're approaching church attendance and their people that are attending their church and how they can best serve them and best create disciples that are going to make an impact in this world. I also want to make sure that you hit a like button because listen, they're free. They cost you nothing, and they really do help a lot. And a subscribe would be even better. And here's why you want to subscribe because we actually dropped a surefire resource in a video not too long ago, 40 done for you ideas about how to reach the next generation, how to stay relevant by using digital. It's a free P D F that'll just give you ideas of how to explore and share the world of digital with your teenagers and the tenders. If you're interested in that, check it out. It'll be linked down below in the show notes. But let's dive in and explore this world of data between Pew Research and Barna. Let's go. Well, hey, everybody. As I said at the top of this episode, if you notice, pew Research is claiming that church attendance is simply down

Nick Clason (02:59):
The board. It's down in every single demographic. There's really only, interestingly, one demographic where church attendance from a post covid world is up, and that is with the religiously unaffiliated from 3% up to 4%, but otherwise, everybody else is down in church attendance. What's fascinating though is that recently Barna, and as I've mentioned multiple times, I'm a youth pastor, and so I took this Barna zoom discovery course on unpacking and understanding Gen Z and real fast before we dive into this conversation about Gen Z, what you need to know is that Generation Z is aging out of our student ministries, right? The youngest Gen Z demographic that we have is freshmen, maybe even sophomores in high school. The rest of our Gen Z are in our workforce. For example, I have a new resident, he's a college graduate, so he is in his first year post-college, he's Gen Z.

Nick Clason (04:00):
And so the fact is Generation Z are young people now. They're not just the youth pastor's problems, they're the church's generation and demographic to understand, and that demographic, that generation, they're attending church even less and less than before. But what's fascinating is I think you'll find out, and as I'm going to talk about the end of this video, is that it's not for the reasons that you might think that they're not attending church. And so as you'll notice, pew research here on the screen has said that church attendance across the board is declining. And I believe that to be true. Okay? What's fascinating though is I do want to lean into the younger demographic. And so in 20 19, 20 4% of 18 to 29 year olds are attending church. Now, peer research claims that only 20% of them are currently attending church, but Barna said that Gen Z is opting out of religion altogether.

Nick Clason (04:52):
So 25% of them, which is the largest of all the other age brackets, if you're including millennials and Gen X and whatever and whatnot, 25% claim to be have no religious affiliation what so ever. That's the largest currently, and it's the largest I believe, in history. Also, what's more fascinating though, and what I really want to kind of dial into is that according to a recent study, they sent just a survey to a big group of Gen Z students, some church, some not, and all kind of the melding in between of their church experience. And it said that the top five words from a list that they were given to choose to describe a Gen Z person's faith were these growing, open, curious, exploring, and unsure. So we have this data from Pew that says Gen Z is not attending church, but then we have this data from Barna that says, the top five ways that they would describe their faith are growing, open, curious, exploring, and unsure.

Nick Clason (06:04):
And so we have these kind of two things that I think are juxtaposed to each other. I don't think either of the data is inaccurate. I still don't think people from Gen Z are attending church that often, and that's what I really want to dive into and explore. But meanwhile, they are all of these things. They are open, growing, curious, exploring. And so how do we lean into a generation that's open, curious, exploring? Meanwhile, furthermore, and also incredibly important about Gen Z is they're very justice minded and they very much care about the marginalized, those in certain pockets and parts of society that are being overlooked. So we as a church should be clamoring for a generation that cares about that, that wants to serve, that wants jump in and help people because that's what the church should be all about. And so we have that.

Nick Clason (06:56):
I also want to share this with you. This last piece of research data from Pew, it dives in just a little bit deeper. I think it's interesting to note we're not going to spend a lot of time on it. So if you're watching this, feel free to just screenshot this. If you're listening to a podcast, make sure you jump into the show notes or head over to YouTube. Go ahead and see this on screen. But the rates are declining, and this is just even more of the data fleshed out and unraveled a little bit deeper so that you can look at it and just see the breakdowns of Christian, Protestant, white, evangelical and all these things. But the consensus is that church attendance is down. So the question that I believe is worth experiencing and exploring is what in the world's going on? So I want to share with you some of my experiences here in the next section.

Nick Clason (07:44):
Check it out. So as I've said, I am a 13 year youth ministry veteran, married to my incredible wife, Amanda. I have two boys. I started as a youth pastor, my final year of college, Cedarville University in Ohio. Shout out, go yellow jackets. And I started working as a youth pastor making a hundred dollars a week at a church in Lebanon, Ohio. It was about a 45 minute drive away from where my college campus was, and I did that my last semester as a senior on campus at Cedarville. That job did extend past graduation, so I worked an entire year past graduation at that church. And then that church, they took a special offering to get me hired. They weren't during my time making budget. And so while they weren't making budget, the senior pastor at the end of it said, listen, man, I don't want to ask our church again for another special offering just simply for your position while the rest of our church is not making budget, so therefore I think it'll be best you left, or if you stayed, we'd love to have you stay, but you're going to have to take a pay cut slash not get paid at all.

Nick Clason (08:45):
And so I knew that my time at that church was done. I went on to another church about 45 minutes back north, closer to college and closer to home, frankly. And that was actually a great experience. I was there for five years. They didn't have a youth pastor before. And so when I started, there was like four kids. My last week on that job. We went to summer camp and we took 88 students to summer camp. And so experienced a lot of growth, numerically, experienced even more growth spiritually. But in both of those experiences, what was happening was my wife and I were looking around and we're like, where are our people? There weren't many people our age. Of course, when we started at the one church, we were in college. When we left the other church, we were 26, 27 years old and had a kid.

Nick Clason (09:31):
And all in that time, there was really never anybody our age. There were always a few. There are always going to be a few people in our age bracket and in our age demographic. But what I've noticed anecdotally is that I have always been in a no man's land spot in church staff. I don't say that to complain. I don't say that to make anybody feel bad, but my generation, I don't feel like attends church that well. And actually, my wife and I were talking about this the other day, and when we were at that church that we were at for five years, it was called University Baptist Church in Beauford Creek, Ohio. We were there for five years. And the problem was we were like, well, we're young, right? And everybody else was about 10 years older than us. Most of them had kids in my youth ministry or starting in my youth ministry that most of our friends were like 35 to 37 years old. They had kids in

Nick Clason (10:24):
Lower elementary school. And we were like, well, listen, nobody our age goes to church. That was kind of the thought, the widespread thought at that time. Young families, young, they're not going to church. They're not making it a priority, but once they have kids, they'll end up being in church, right? Well, now here I am 35 years old or 34 years old. I have kids the same age as those families that I did at that church a couple years ago. And I look around now and there's still that void. There's still that void. There's a little more of it. A, I'm here in the south b I work as youth pastor, and I work when everybody else is at church. So I may drop my kids off, but I'm not getting to know really any of the families, which is another conversation for another day.

Nick Clason (11:11):
And so there may be more of that than I'm even aware of. But as I look around on staff and things like that, look at some of the pools I'm in. There's not as many people my age just not. There's just a gap. And like I was saying, my wife and I, we were talking about it and we've always felt that. I'm like, well, when we get to that age, then it'll be there. And it just hasn't, it's always felt like there's been some sort of attendance void or community void from the, and we've been able to find community lean in. I mean, we have become friends with people of all different ages and types of backgrounds and stuff like that. So we're not looking for people to be identical to us. The thing, I think the tricky part in all of this is that as we were talking about this, she's like, well, if I look around at some of my friends in my family, they don't go to church that much either.

Nick Clason (12:04):
And so even though even some people we maybe went to Christian college with or whatever, they're just, they're not naturally attending church. There's something about church I think that my generation has an aversion to. And I think that that's what this data is bearing out is maybe not post covid church. TE is down maybe since 2019 to 2023. The older generation that did attend church has unfortunately passed away. And this younger generation, as they're waving up, it's not that they're not coming back to church, it's that they were never really there. And so they may claim to be Christians. And I think that that is the conundrum in and of itself. There may be claimed Christians, but they're not showing up at our churches. And so I have a thesis as a youth pastor, as a 13 year church staff veteran that I want to propose with you.

Nick Clason (13:01):
It's going to be controversial, and you may not even agree, but I have a thesis of why I think that this is happening. So let's check that out on the other side. So here's my thesis. I really do think that young people are interested in God, faith, spiritual things and spirituality. I really do. I think the Barna data bears that out. I think what they're uninterested in is the church current demands, expectations, and the ways that the church has been choosing to do things for years. And I think one of the things that I want to challenge churches, church leaders, even youth pastors who are in a second seat to maybe lead up, is to rethink tier two issues. And that's my hack in this video, rethink tier two issues, because I think we've made things like, now don't call me a heretic and turn this off, but just hear me out.

Nick Clason (13:58):
I think we've made things like the Sunday morning sermon, worship experience, a tier one issue when biblically, the impetus for gathering together is not around a lecture style message. It never was. The gathering was meant to be a family, meant to be a living, breathing organism. And at some point along the way, we've interjected this idea of a lecture style message, and we've made that the number one step in church. And we have a generation of young people that are looking for community belonging, acceptance, looking for a place to make a difference, and then we ask them as a church to come in and listen to us, tell them what to do for an hour. And then beyond that, if they want to go deeper, if they're really, really committed, if they really, really care, if they're really about this God stuff, then they'll give us even more of their time and they'll start serving.

Nick Clason (15:03):
And I just don't know that that's the best entry point in churches anymore. Again, don't call me a heretic. I love preaching and I love sermons, but I think that there are many, many ways to rethink that. In fact, Barna answered the six questions for the future of the hybrid church a couple years ago in the P D F ebook. I can link that in the show notes down below. But in that they asked, what are digital ways to do church? And it was offered things like small group confession, Bible study prayer. The number one thing that people voted that could be experienced digitally was the sermon. I love listening to sermons, but I love also listening to it When I'm on a run or when I'm driving or when I'm at the grocery store, I listen to things in my ears all day long so I can hear a sermon that exact same way.

Nick Clason (16:00):
But instead, the expectation is for someone to walk into a room, stare at the back of someone's head and listen to someone up on stage, talk for half an hour. What if we rethought that and flipped the entry point into a more robust community? Because in my experience, community is like sermon 2.0 or sermon adjacent. We had the sermon, and now that that's good and locked in, now let's explore other avenues for you to go to church. What if we rethought that as a tier two thing? Because what I know the church to be biblically and theologically is a place for believers to come together to gather, to worship God together and to be a family and a community. Hebrews 10, 24 and 25 spurring one another on toward love and good deeds, not giving up meeting together as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another.

Nick Clason (16:58):
And I think if all we do is show up into a Sunday morning gathering and we have the hallway pleasantries and the coffee interactions, and then a 30 minute sermon, and then we go to brunch, I don't know that we really encouraged anybody. We can smile real nice, but at the end of the day, did that do anything? And I think that right there is the rub. I think that's the difference between a different generation, an older generation of church tenders and this new wave of church generations. And so if you're a youth pastor, you're on the front lines of this. And you may be a beneficiary of older families that have kids that are sending their kids to your student ministry, but are those kids actually connected to God in the church or are they connected to their parents who are coming through the church and then ultimately into your

Nick Clason (17:49):
Youth ministry? And so get to know them because while they may not be making the decisions right now as the people who are, they're not the schedule keepers. Mom and dads are the ones driving them, but get to know them, get to know what makes them tick, and will they stay connected and attached to the church and the mission overall. And so that's my thesis. I hope that you just give it a thought, think through what these tier two issues might look like and how you can readapt them in your church. But hey, I want to let you know that right here on the screen, like I said, I have this video helping you break down how to reach this next generation. And I have a ebook 40 done for you, ideas listed out in this video, TikTok versus Instagram versus YouTube. It'll pop up here on the screen. Hey, listen, we're trying to make digital discipleship easy and accessible, so don't forget, and as always, stay hybrid.

Show Notes & Transcripts: http://www.hybridministry.xyz/044
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9pjecCnd8FVFCenWharf2g
TikTok: http://www.tiktok.com/@clasonnick
FREE E-Book: https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/ebook

RECENT GEN Z STATS
*GEN Z *
70% are spiritually open

TRAITS
Correct
6% Teens
8% All Gen Z
9% Young Adults
Knowledgeable
16% Teens
21% All Gen Z
24% Young Adults
Being Honest
41% Teens
32% All Gen Z
25% Young Adults
Being Open to New Ideas
29% Teens
28% All Gen Z
28% Young Adults
Being Curious
7% Teens
11% All Gen Z
13% Young Adults

51% HAPPINESS IS VERY IMPORTANT
Happiness Looks Like
43% Success
23% Education
20% Family
8% Spiritual
6% Health

TIMECODES
00:00-02:46 Intro
02:46-06:32 A BeReal Generation vs. an Instagram Generation
06:32-11:37 The Latest Gen Z Statistics
11:37-18:52 Church & Workplace Implications of these Cultural Trends and Shifts
18:52-21:49 Gen Z Still Likes Jesus, just not our Church
21:49-22:44 Outro

TRANSCRIPT
Nick Clason (00:00):
Hey, what is up everybody? Welcome back to another episode of the Hybrid Ministry Show. I am your host, Nick Clason, excited to be with you. And in this episode, we are going to talk about the workplace gap and generational gap between older generations and younger generations, specifically generation Z and those that have come before them. And also, I want to pull out some principles that I think might be true about what that means for you and your local church and how they're the, the gap is causing a riff in potentially church attendance. But before we do, I just want to say thanks for being here. If you're on YouTube, hit that subscribe and notification button, that like button. If you're on TikTok, give us a follow. And if you are just listening in your podcast catcher, I wanna let you know that you can head to hybridministry.xyz for all of your podcast needs, including show notes and transcripts.

Nick Clason (01:00):
We will link all of the notes to everything, uh, all the links, everything that we're talking about. And, uh, all of the, uh, transcript is there for you, 100% completely free of charge. We also wanna let you know that LinkedIn, the show notes, both on YouTube and in your podcast, our free ebook, have I already ruined my church's TikTok account. That will be available for you. Again, free of charge. Just hit that subscribe button and sign up for that email list. We'd love to give that to you as a free gift and our token of appreciation. Uh, and also, without any further ado, if you are able, willing, or, uh, have any sort of interest in letting us know, this would be great. We would love a five star rating or review that would really help us out, that would help us get index in the search for all these things on podcast.

Nick Clason (01:47):
All those things matter, and they're just, they would just be a small token of appreciation from you to us for all that we do. Um, but again, we are just thankful and thrilled to be here. So without any further ado, let's dive into the workplace generation gap conundrum. Hey, what's up, hybrid ministry fam, thanks for watching this or listening to this. Hey, I just wanna drop a quick note and let you know about halfway through, uh, the audio recording. Somehow my audio got corrupted. You'll notice a drastic drop off in quality some way through. Sorry about that. You're still gonna be able to hear it cuz I was recording it on my phone just like I'm doing this little announcement right here, right now. So this'll be able to hear it. It's just not the best, it's not our favorite quality level. We'll get it back, you know, we'll figured out the issue.

Nick Clason (02:40):
Um, but just wanna give you that quick disclaimer. Heads up. Hope you still enjoy the rest of the episode. So if you have been paying any bit of attention recently, you know that the social trends have been shifting. We all know that TikTok has grown in immense popularity. All of what Congress and the US is trying to do with it, it's grown in immense popularity. So much so that some of our more, um, legacy platforms like Facebook and Instagram have adopted many of the AI features that are available in TikTok. But another trend that I've noticed recently, uh, is the trend of the, the social media app. B real bre has been, uh, launched recently, um, within a year or so I would say. And Gen Z and current teenagers have gone crazy for it, at least in my anecdotal experience. And they're using it.

Nick Clason (03:37):
And if you don't know what B Real is, it's basically an app that one time a day says it's time to be real. But they, uh, you know, you can, you can, it has like dual meaning like cuz BRE is also another thing that you use in like film or whatever, but it says it's time to be real and they just take a picture of what you're doing wherever you are, right there in that moment. You have two minutes to post it, you can post late and that's what a lot of people do. But it's really just like a once daily posting app. It's not the curated feed and the beautiful like Brazilian vacation photo pictures that we would get in the old school, Instagram and Facebook, right? So that was a lot more curation and now Gen Z is leaning a lot more towards just like, this is how it is, this is what it is, take me for me, it is what it is, take it or leave it.

Nick Clason (04:29):
Like that's essentially right? Like that's essentially, uh, what they, uh, have kind of leaned into. And I think it's fascinating shift this like perfect polished, kind of curated down to this like little more nitty gritty just as I, as I am, take me or leave me for who I am. That's kind of what BeReal is. That's kind of why I think TikTok shifted too. And one of the things that's interesting is burial is where you follow friends, but they only post one time a day. There's like not as much pressure on social media on the curation of it. And I just, I think that that's a trend. I think that that's, uh, a, a way, a thing that Gen Z is attempting to adopt less curation, more just realness, more rawness, more authenticity. Um, and meanwhile like, uh, take, uh, Instagram, Facebook, and some of those more legacy platforms, millennials and up, that's not as much the priority in fact, or it hasn't been, you know, and as they've shifted into reels, which is much more discovery based, more raw, more quick cuts and more like entertainment based.

Nick Clason (05:36):
Um, like you would go on on TikTok or any of the other platforms, shorts, reels, and you would watch something, it's like 98% or, or something like that. 90% of what you actually watch and consume is not from people that you know. So that's not really a social media anymore. It's honestly much more of like a entertainment platform you get on TikTok at the end of the night or whenever you do to be entertained. So the actual sociability is happening on apps like be real and other, just more like basic, very like nitty gritty, not a lot of bells and whistles type of thing. And I think that there's an attraction to that. And so, uh, I I just, I think that's one, one interesting shift that I'm noticing in the generation gap. I wanna also look at the workplace gap here in a minute and how I think that that plays out for you and your church.

Nick Clason (06:29):
But first I have some new stats I got from Barna. So let's dive in to those recent stats from Barna on Gen Z. Um, found some of these interesting, just wanted to share them with you. According to Gen Z or according to Barna, 56% of Generation Z claim to be Christians, which might be higher than you thought it was. I think that there's sort of a notion out there that Gen Z is deconstructing, gen Z is rethinking their faith, but 56% still claim and classify themselves as Christians. Granted, I know there's, you know, all kinds of different things on spectrum. You may claim to be a Christian, is it nominal y or whatever, whatnot. The thing that's staggeringly high though is Gen Z considers, uh, only TW or 25% of Gen Z consider themselves to have no faith at all. And here's the the crazy thing, right?

Nick Clason (07:19):
Like that is, that's the part that is alarmingly high I believe because that is the highest of any other generation by a lot. So US adults, according to US adults only 13% say that they have no faith. And the next highest, um, like breakdown age demographic thing is millennials and they're at 15%. Gen X is at 13%, boomers at 8%, elders at 5%, all of that under not saying that they don't have, uh, faith. And so here's the thing is that while you and I, if we're older and not generation Z, we may look at that and we may be like, wow, that that's alarming. And they are definitely deconstructing and that may be the label that we give to it. But what's interesting is that they surveyed Gen Z gr deeper. And these five words were the words that most defined and clarified their spiritual journey.

Nick Clason (08:12):
And they were these words, number one, they're spiritually growing. That was 39% of the population checked that, uh, number two, they're spiritually open, 35%, they're spiritually curious, 32% they are, um, spiritual in general, uh, 29%. And then they are spiritually exploring 27%. So like I said, we might have that classification as like, man, you're deconstructing what they call it a different word. And I, that was a very, very, um, uh, important learning, at least for me. I was like, okay, we're freaking out about it. And they're like, no, I'm just open. I'm just exploring. I'm just growing. I'm just checking things out. That was how they would describe it. Uh, big bucket of that, 70% of Gen Z claim to be spiritually open. 70%, that's a large stat. Um, and then furthermore, to expound upon that and that this is where I think this really gets interesting and important for churches is that these were some of the traits that, uh, the survey asked Gen Z, what do you want in your, um, church?

Nick Clason (09:20):
What do you want in your religious institution? What are the key things you're looking for? The first question, are you looking for it to be correct? 6% of teens said that they were looking for their religion to be correct. 8% of all Gen Zs said that and 9% of young adults said that. Not very high, right? Are you looking for it to be knowledgeable? Are you looking for people in your religious institutions or people around to be knowledgeable? 16% of teens said, yeah, I'm looking for them to be knowledgeable. 21% of all Gen Zs said, yeah, I'm looking for them to be knowledgeable and then 24% of young adults, so I'm looking for them to be knowledgeable. You can see that jump right from teenager to young adult. Once you become an adult, you're like, I do want someone to know something, right? To help me out.

Nick Clason (10:02):
Uh, this one was the, the highest, the highest on the graphs. You had different graphs of all these different, um, characteristics. Being honest, this is the highest one. 41% of teens want their religious institution. To be honest, 32% of all Gen Z ask for that. And 25% of young adults want honesty, want authenticity, right? Back to be real honesty, authenticity, the real you being open to new ideas. That was another category. 29% of teens want that. 28% of all Gen Z, 28% of young adults. And finally, curiosity, that one was lower with 7% of teens wanting to be curious. 11% of all Gen Z and 13% of young adults. And so they're looking for honesty, they're looking for transparency, they're looking for realness. Okay? Furthermore, and this is the last bit of the stats before we dive into what I think are pot, some potential implications for this.

Nick Clason (10:55):
51% of Gen Z say that happiness is very important to them. They are looking for happiness. Well, you know, once, once they heard that stam in this like Barna kind of collab thing where they are sharing these statistics, one other person's put in the chat, how do you define happiness? And they ask that question, they're like, what does happiness look like to you? So 43% say it looks like success and, and they used images for them to choose. So that success image was a guy holding money. That's what 43% say, happiness looks like. Successful man holding money where 23% say education is happiness. 20% say family, 8% say spiritual and 6% say health. All right? So what does all that mean? Let's dive into it and check it out. Okay? So I think that there's a workplace shift that needs to happen. Covid ushered a lot of this stuff in and your church is probably in a different spot than it was pre covid, but it may not be fully there where generation Z is interested.

Nick Clason (11:56):
Cuz here's the thing, whether this matters to you on paper or not, you are going to need to start hiring generation Z by the year 2025, which at the time of the podcast recording is only a year and a half away. Millennials and Gen Z are going to make up the majority of the American workforce. That may or may not be true in your context and in your church, but the fact is, if you're catering to boomers and Xers in the workplace, just because this is the way we've always done it and they need to get over it and they need to get used to it, that may not be your most effective strategy moving forward. And it may not bite you right in the year 2025, but 2026 rolls around 20 27, 20 28, and you're trying to recruit new young talent and they're just not interested in coming to work for your church or your organization.

Nick Clason (12:43):
Why is that the case? Here are some thoughts I have based off of this research and just some things I've observed in the last couple of years that I think might be contributing to it. So the first is this, the time off conversation and or the work life balance conversation. These are wide sweeping generalities, I understand it. And so if you're like, Hey, I'm a Gen Xer and that's not true of me. I'm saying by and large wide sweeping, um, I work for a boss, he's Gen X, he is phenomenal at giving me time off, taking care of me, making sure I have balance, work life balance, all those things. But he will of his own admission and, and own accord say that he is a workaholic and he will push it to the limit. And so, uh, that is something that is of the older generation, much more the norm.

Nick Clason (13:36):
They're looking for people who are gonna work hard and give it their all and bust it. And while that may be true, and that may even be what's necessary at times, that is not the natural disposition of millennials and Gen Z, I'm a millennial and I I am friends with and work with a lot of people that are Gen Z. I don't think that they're lazy and don't wanna work. I just simply think that they are more aware of their work life balance. They've looked to their older parents or wiser people in their life and they've seen how they've approached work and they have not, they don't want to fall to those same, you know, pitfalls that they've seen over time. So work-life balance, PTO rhythms, taking time off vacation. I have a coworker, she's Gen Z and this is her first job. And so she's been with us, um, at our job for the, about the same amount of time that I've been working there, eight months or so.

Nick Clason (14:32):
And this is her first time with like a true weekend, but she has to come back for Sundays. Sundays are not a weekend anymore, but we get Fridays off. And so she will often try to get out of the office a little bit early on a Thursday and she will often take a trip somewhere, go meet some friends, you know, whatever. So she's leaving at like two o'clock, three o'clock, hitting the road, getting there on Thursday night, hanging out. Like, and that's important to her. And so there was a Thursday night commitment that she had and she's like, I can't do that. And it was like, because this is my weekend. I need my weekend to explore, to have fun. And that's just like, I think most older generations would be like, no, you have to work yet to stay here until five. Like, that's the rules.

Nick Clason (15:16):
And I just think that that that's a shift that is happening and that's probably an adaptation that I would say is gonna need to take place in the workforce. Uh, also flexible in workspaces, like remote working should be able to be a thing. Now I get it. If you're at church and you're in ministry, you know, just how valuable and important like in-person face-to-face meetings are. If you're gonna disciple somebody, if you're gonna grab coffee with a leader, if you're gonna sit down and have breakfast with a couple and you're counseling them, like all those things are valuable. But there's a lot of computer work, there's a lot of email based work, there's a lot of like software things that can take place via remote work. And you don't have to be 100% completely in the office, your butt in a chair because the natural like tendency for that is like everyone's here.

Nick Clason (16:06):
And so if anyone needs anything, we just pop in and out of people's offices. There are tools nowadays, there's slack, there's as much as I hate it, there's Microsoft teams, there are chat based features that you can stay in touch and you don't have to have a quote unquote office or hallway or pop in type conversation. Why do we do that? I think we do that because it's comfortable, it's familiar to the way it's always been done, but the tools are there and they're probably a little bit more effective on, uh, efficiency workflow, getting people like, you know, in and outta conversations as opposed to like, Hey, how are you? And that conversation taking an extra 10, 15, 20 minutes, there's value in those things, no doubt. But generation Z and millennials are looking for more flexible workspaces if they can get their job done while out, while also being on vacation somewhere so that they can work for a few hours, they can close their laptop and then they can go and have fun on vacation.

Nick Clason (17:03):
If we are so tight and stringent and say, no, you have to be here in the office, that's not gonna lend itself well to that flexible workspace and that first one, that time off that work life balance. The other trend, the other thing that I'm kind of noticing is that the older generations, uh, Xers and boomers, they're holding on longer, they're working later, they need the money to retire, they still need the income. And this one I think is big, is because while Gen Z is pursuing happiness, uh, corporate work environment may not be the cure or key to their happiness, but if it is, especially in church, they may say like, well, I'm looking for purpose and the church helps bring me that purpose. I want to be a part of a church. However, there are older generations that are still hanging on and that are still working.

Nick Clason (17:54):
So the question is, while we want to hire younger people, where is the space for them to come into your organization attached to it, take ownership of something and begin working toward any sort of authority in your organization because you have people already holding those most important positions. And that's gonna get tricky, especially if you got those people sitting there and and holding those most important positions. Where are they going to lay down and pave away for generation Z to come in and take opportunity? The last thing I think is that Gen Z is very concerned and rightly so about their mental health, about their mental state, about their mental wellbeing, making sure that those things are taken care of, that they're important. And so your organization, if you're bringing in millennials and Gen Z, consider finding a way to help prioritize their mental health, make counseling a part of a employment benefit for them, um, and for, you know, a thing that you offer to them.

Nick Clason (18:56):
So I have one last idea, let's check it out on the other side, right? So here's my conclusion. Gen Z, well, 25% would claim that they don't have faith. I think one of the things I've noticed in my experience is that generation Z, they still love and like Jesus a lot. In fact, in this Barna co lab, they sat down and talked with two guys who were Gen Z business owners. And what shocked me and was just an interesting thing that I noticed, uh, they didn't necessarily say this, they're a part of their church, but they're Christians running a Christian organization, not doing it through the local church. So my question to myself in that moment was, if Gen Zers, like these are passionate about faith, passionate about God, they love going to things like, you know, passion, these people, they were in the event business as well.

Nick Clason (19:51):
They love going to those things, but we're not seeing them in our churches, both on the workplace side or the attendance side. Do they like Jesus and just not like the way that we do our church? I think church has a propensity right now to feel very institutionalized. And I think that that, that if that rubbed you the wrong way, and especially if you're older and you're listening to it and you're like, my church isn't institutionalized, this is what we've been doing it for years. While that may be true, the way that we've been doing church for years is American, not necessarily New Testament. The New Testament church looked very different from the American church. So are you doing church like the Bible or are you doing church like America? And there's nothing wrong with doing church like America unless it's not effective in reaching the next generation.

Nick Clason (20:36):
And in that case, that's where it becomes an issue. And so I think both from older generations holding on from workplaces not being very friendly to Generation Z, millennials and those with that type of mindset and the fact that there's just not as much space for Generation Z to, to go into these spaces, they're creating them over here to look more New Testament, to look more authentic, to look more be real, to have more community, to have more places to lean in as opposed to coming to your institutionalized church. Because if they're not there in the seats from eight 30 to nine 30, then we consider them deconstructing. And that just may simply not be true. They might just be open to exploring new ways, new, new ideas, new places to engage with these things. That doesn't necessarily mean that they're out on Jesus. It just might mean that they're out on you. So what shifts might you need to take place? What stats have you heard that you're like now that's interesting and that might change some of the way we do things because before long, millennials and generations here are going to make up the majority of our workforce. They are Gen Z is not just teenagers in your youth group, they're graduating college now. They are looking for a church to attach to. Is your church friendly to them and what they need? Or is your church stuck dogmatically to the way that things have always been done?

Nick Clason (21:59):
Well thanks guys so much for hanging out in this episode. Thrilled to have you with us. Don't forget everything that you need is gonna be available to you in the show notes. Make sure that you like, make sure that you comment, make sure that you subscribe, rating, review, all those things. Glad to be with you. If you find this helpful, we would love to continue to create and produce content like this for you. So all that stuff helps keep us going as well as head to hybridministry.xyz Click on the contact form and if you have questions, submit them there to us. We would love to start taking some questions, answering some of your questions and giving back to y'all and letting you know what our perspective is on certain hybrid things, digital, social marketing, communications, generation Z, all the above. Let us know on those topic. But until next time, and as always, stay.

SHOW NOTES
BARNA E-BOOK BEING REFERENCED
https://shop.barna.com/products/6-questions-about-the-future-of-the-hybrid-church-experience

PILLAR PAGE EXAMPLE
https://www.typeform.com/blog/guides/brand-awareness/

CROSSROADS ONLINE PLATFORM
https://www.crossroads.net/watch/

//BARNA EBOOK FINDINGS
51% of All US adults did not watch an online church service during COVID
18% of Practicing Christians did not

67% of churched adults now have an online option when their church didn’t have one before

90% primarily engaged with the same church they were committed to before COVID

78% of church dropouts are waiting until services go back to normal before they return

Churched Adults (36%) and Home with kids under 18 (41%) struggle to focus during online church

//DO YOU USE THE INTERNET FOR FAITH PURPOSES?
Practicing Christians - 66%
Churched Adults - 56%
Dropouts - 36%
Churched Gen Z - 67%
Churched Millennials 64%
Churched Gen X 58%
Churched Boomers 42%

//AFTER COVID WILL CHURCH GATHERINGS FIT YOUR LIFE?
Churched Gen Z
37% say both
13% say primarily digital
41% say physical
40% say both
13% say primarily digital
42% say primarily physical

TIMECODES
00:00-1:43 - Intro
01:43-02:57 - Findings from Barna Study on Hybrid
02:57-07:30 - 51% of US adults didnt' watch service online during COVID
07:30-12:36 - 67% of churched adults now have an online option
12:36-21:16 - How to set up a pillar page
21:16-23:08 - People stayed committed to their church during COVID
23:08-24:38 - 78% of dropouts are waiting until it's normal to return to church
24:38-28:08 - It's hard to remain focued while watching online
28:08-30:35 - Using the internet for Faith Purposes
30:35-32:46 - Post COVID church attendance survey data
32:46-34:35- Outro

TRANSCRIPT
Matt Johnson (00:01):
For young, I wanna be for forever young.

Matt Johnson (00:08):
Hey

Nick Clason (00:11):
Well, good morning. And hello everybody. Welcome to another episode of the hybrid ministry podcast. I am your host, Nick Clason alongside my great friend cohort. Compadre, Matt Johnson. How you doing this morning, Matt?

Matt Johnson (00:27):
Doing great, man. I'm a little tired, you know, have a newborn in another room. So that's been, uh, exciting, but you know, I'm, uh, worn out but you know, it's beautiful and it's a great thing. So

Nick Clason (00:40):
You're worn out. So let's talk about digital ministry to just reinvigorate you.

Matt Johnson (00:47):
I'm in

Nick Clason (00:48):
Let's, uh, real quick, like what are like the, like, what's the number one, most surprising thing about a newborn for you?

Matt Johnson (00:56):
Oh man. You know, the most surprising thing is how fulfilled I am. Um, you know, I, the second I've met her, I cried and you know, there's been multiple times I've been holding her and I just start crying. I'm like, this is really weird. Never thought fatherhood would hit me this way. And I think it just goes, you know, I lost my dad a few years ago. So like just layers of like who I am to this little thing that I'm holding, you know, that doesn't even have any idea what's going on in the world.

Nick Clason (01:23):
yeah. Yeah. That's that's awesome, man. Well, we're super happy for you, but obviously everybody wanted you back because, uh, you know, they missed, they, they missed you. Laughs. And they had just listened to me and that was boring so well, yeah. That's amazing, dude. So super happy for you. Um, today, uh, you know, Barna recently came out with a, an ebook, um, on the, I don't remember the exact title of it, but we'll link it in the show notes, but the findings in this new world of hybrid ministry and I dude, I promise you, right. We had this name before we knew about their ebook.

Matt Johnson (02:06):
So yes,

Nick Clason (02:07):
, we're technically not stealing from them, but they did release before us because, uh, we didn't have our crap together enough to get this thing up and off the ground.

Matt Johnson (02:16):

Nick Clason (02:17):
So , so it looks like we're stealing from them, but we promise we're not. So I was reading through that, uh, just the other day and there were just some statistics that kinda, um, I found interesting and I just wanted to share them and then us just kind of go back and forth and talk through 'em a little bit. So, um, you know, you and I were obviously promoting this idea of digital and physical ministry calling it hybrid. Uh, and so there are a couple of things that I found interesting that feel like maybe they're not, um, leaning towards hybrid or digital ministry being a good strategy. The first one is this 51% of all us adults did not watch an online church service during COVID. Um, and 18% of practicing Christians did not. So COVID hit a practicing Christian, almost 20% of them never even tuned into an online service. So those statistics right there, Matt, is there anything concerning with that? Like as you and I are like pushing for this idea of hybrid ministry, are, are we like, well, yeah, but people don't even really want it. That's, that's kind of how I would read that statistic.

Matt Johnson (03:31):
Yeah. I, uh, personally I'm not concerned mostly just cuz of the demographic and the ages that this did. I mean, it's not just, you know, millennials that they're pulling out in this stat, it's all adults. So you're gonna have boomers, gen X all in there too. And we know historically that they don't want to really tune in online. Um, I will say, I mean, if only 20, if 20% of practicing Christians did not tune in, I mean that means 80% did tune in at some point, which I mean that excites me. Um, cuz that means majority of people are trying to tune in. Um, and I also do, uh, if all us adults and 51% did not attend a church service of like everyone in the us, I, I mean might be the optimist I me, but that, that tells me 49% of people at least, you know, checked out a service at some point. So that's exciting. Uh, yeah. Which, you know, that's kind of correlates with the numbers that we have seen and you know, practicing religion anyway. So, um, I

Nick Clason (04:31):
Mean you can paint them as negative. Right. But there's also the other side too, which is there, there is positivity in it such depends, I guess how you wanna look at it.

Matt Johnson (04:40):
Yeah. And I would just say like, don't get discouraged just cuz 20, you know, about 20% of practicing Christians did not because I would say, you know, that's probably the 20% of people that regardless never will.

Nick Clason (04:52):
Yeah. Well and one of the, I mean, gosh, one of the things we've noticed in our church is that, um, COVID hit and we lost contact with just a lot of people. And so mm-hmm, , that's probably a nationwide phenomenon as well. Um, especially depending on the size of church, you know, you and I obviously work at a pretty large church and so it's, it's harder for us to have contact with every single one, uh, of the people, you know, that,

Matt Johnson (05:16):
That least, yeah. Something else that I would ask, seeing the number start to cut you off. Nick is no,

Nick Clason (05:21):
You're good.

Matt Johnson (05:22):
Um, how were, were these churches that these 20%, 18% did not get practice online? Is that because they weren't communicated well to, um, were the, were things not implemented quick enough for them? So, you know, they were like, you know, they get out their habit habit of I'm gonna go attend church, which I think that could definitely be part of that factor too. I mean, I think in my grandpa's church who, you know, runs a small Methodist church of 20 people and they try to do online and it was him in his kitchen, but you know, his congregation is primarily 60 to 80 years old, so they're not gonna really go on Facebook to watch.

Nick Clason (05:58):
So yeah. I also think that, um, what you and I are proposing and talking about in the life of this podcast is not an online church service. No like that it be an element to it and it could be an element to it. But I think we're trying to actually create a more dynamic and robust, um, framework for hybrid ministry. Exactly. Because I do exactly that people do like the, the X factor of the church is the fact that we gather together and we create real authentic community. Like, yeah, that's what sets us apart. We're not just a content machine. And so the con the converse of that is that if the church is just a content machine, like if we're not doing it well, or, um, like if we feel like we should have to compete with the world, we may lose out on that, unless we have something that's uniquely different and we do, and that's Jesus and that's community, but so how do we take those things that uniquely set us apart as the church and create something hybrid in that?

Nick Clason (07:08):
And so while some of these stats may look, you know, cryptic or whatever, for what we're proposing, I would argue that we're saying, yeah, stream your service, but also, like don't only stream your service and call that your digital presence. There's so much more to a digital presence, just go back and exactly all the things we've, we've talked about in the week, the episodes before, so, okay. Yeah. So then, uh, 67%, um, of church adults now have an online option and when their church didn't have one before. So if anything, what we've seen now is that COVID has ushered the church, you know, into this new, this new phenomenon. I think in my dad's church, not the one he's at now, but the one that he was at when COVID was going on. And, uh, they, they did have a live stream, but dude, like I think that their live stream was someone setting their iPhone up in the balcony.

Nick Clason (08:06):
And like, that was how they live stream, you know, and they're not super produced even now, but they did, like, they did grab a couple of, you know, elements to, to boost their live stream. And so they now do like lower thirds instead of just like just putting the phone up and hoping that people can see the screen and, um, like stuff like that, you know, to make themselves a little bit more, uh, online savvy. And so I think a lot of churches went through some sort of online iteration. And so now that you have the hardware and the software, and maybe even some of the soft skills, like the know how and how to set this thing up, it now gives the ma you know, the overwhelming majority of churched adults, an online option that they didn't have before. And so yes, stream your service, but also what are different ways, Matt, that you could even see them packaging that, um, that content, that audio, that video to create hybrid, you know, elements throughout their week.

Matt Johnson (09:08):
Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of different ways you could, um, package it, but what are the best ways right now I'd say is to just get some of that short form content out of that live message. Um, we've talked a lot about that, especially if you're trying to hit the millennial gen Z. Um, there actually was just another study that came out that said the best way to reach that. Um, millennials in general is video that's under 60 seconds long. So, um, if you could figure out a good way to like package, I don't know, 62nd clip with a, um, let's say a 200 word blog or 200 word write up about it. And you could package that as a, Hey, our weekly recap or whatever. Oh yeah. I don't know if you watch baseball at all. Um, but, uh, one of my favorite things about baseball right now is like, if you tune into a game late, especially on specifically on YouTube TV, it gives you a six inning recap of, or like whatever inning you're coming in of all the plays you've missed, which I, uh, that's something I personally love, cuz I can catch up on my baseball games really quickly.

Matt Johnson (10:09):
But so do that for your sermon. Like do a, Hey here's our sermon recap for the week you give it in content short form. Um, and let me know what's going on with, uh, whatever you got going on in, at your church that week. Uh, that's the probably gonna be the best way to reach millennial and gen Z right now.

Nick Clason (10:27):
And do you think Matt that like obviously, well, first of all, baseball's boring. If you can catch up on a game in 60 seconds, that's my take on it, but uh, would you suggest that the best way to do that would be through, um, like maybe TikTok or Instagram, but are you saying like throw that on like a mobile friendly, um, website or like a page on your website? That's like maybe a blog page that's dynamic, that's moving, that's being updated. Um, and then that, is that the way to do it, send it out via email, like what would be your distribution? Like that's a great concept. I love that. I don't even know if there's churches really doing that in the iteration that you're explaining, but how would you, uh, suggest a church if you know, we hired you as our marketing manager, how would you suggest a church set that up technically on the backside? Does that make sense?

Matt Johnson (11:16):
Yeah. No, all of the above are great options. Um, the big thing, so here, well, let's go through all the avenues. So Instagram TikTok, you're gonna have broader reach. So if that's what you're trying to get, go for that email, you're gonna have your best reach. So, uh, Seth goin always talks about how your email list is like your gold. Um, if you get really good people on your email list and they're engaged, like that's your cream of your crop, they're gonna be hot no matter what. So, um, that's a great way to distribute, distribute it, but we also know it can be a challenge to get emails. So, um, if that's not, you know, uh, something that you have built, you don't have a CRM or anything built on the back end or a data management system. I would, okay. Let's all right. What's next website, which this could easily be a pillar page or a cluster topic of like, Hey, you're serving recaps and all that SEO is gonna drive your website. The video content is gonna weigh higher on Google and you can just continue adding stuff to that page of like here's our sermon recap page. And that page will just be built out more and more. And if you can just imagine this page, that scrolls forever, and you have a nice little table of content at the top that you can like jump around and stuff. That's gonna weigh very high on SEO. So, um, so which we are actually seeing currently with Google,

Nick Clason (12:36):
So let's get super nerdy on a pillar page. So I know what that is. Cuz you told me what it is, but I didn't know what it was till you told me what it was a couple of months ago. So first of all, what is a pillar page?

Matt Johnson (12:47):
So a pillar page is just a fancy term of like, okay, you've pick a topic. So let's, let's uh, let's talk about small groups. Small groups is always a great, uh, no let's do youth ministry since you're a youth leader. You knows. There we go. Let's now we're talking the finals, let's go into the world that we know. Yeah. so let's say we created a pillar page. That was everything you need to know about, uh, youth ministry in 2022. Um, so we titled that page specifically to be some of those search terms that you're gonna have. And then that pillar page should just be built out of like the who, what, when, where, why, how so, but blogs, curated content. And when I talk about curated content, I think that confuses a lot of people cuz they think, oh, we're just gonna, um, take content that we have or whatever, and just re put it on there.

Matt Johnson (13:31):
You can do that. But when I'm seeing curated content, I'm talking about other people's content and doing back links for them too. Mm-hmm um, that helps you weigh higher on SEO. Um, and also on this page should be, uh, you know, copy about like, okay, this is everything you need to know about youth ministry. And then on there you could have your video tutorials, you could have, um, white pages ebook. So it's everything that you're gonna release about a topic on one page. So the Google term of it is a content cluster, which it's like a cluster of all the content you have. The pillar page is what the marketing term is that you're gonna hear a lot for it. Um, so if you created, uh, let's say life, church recap page, and on that recap page, it's just everything that life church has done, you know, over the last year. And it's a recap of all their sermons. It's a play by play or whatever. You're gonna weigh higher on SEO when people are searching for like, okay, I'm looking for, how do I deal with anxiety? And if you had a sermon about anxiety, that's gonna weigh higher on that page for you.

Nick Clason (14:40):
That's great, man. So here's my question then as someone who's a novice, as it comes to like internet, uh, website development and all that stuff, obviously if I pay for developer, I'm gonna gonna get this done. Right. But let's pretend I don't have the money to do that. Or I might just, you know, waiting into this now for the very first time, uh, how, like, can you set up a pillar page? Like, is there like a pillar page for dummies? Is there like a couple of things that they can do through like a basic square space, Wix or WordPress site that will get them at least on the right path? Cuz maybe, you know, someone's listening to this and they're not the senior leader. They don't have the authorization to spend the money, but they believe in it. And so they want to take it on as a pet project, but they need to prove to their upper level leadership or their senior pastor that this is valuable. Can you give someone in that boat, any sort of like tips on how to get some of that stuff up and rolling?

Matt Johnson (15:31):
Yeah, definitely. You can a hundred percent create a pillar page through, you know, WICS or Squarespace or something. Um, you're just gonna be limited by, uh, the fact that you're in a template, which is okay. So I want to be very clear about that. Like that is okay. Um, it's just gonna be laid out how Squarespace really wants it laid out or Wix wants it laid out. Um,

Nick Clason (15:50):
As opposed to the custom, like I want it, I want this feature, like you can't ne maybe necessarily accommodate that. You're just stuck in the template.

Matt Johnson (15:59):
Yeah, exactly. So if you're like, Hey, I don't like how this jumps to there. You're not gonna really be able to finesse around that, but that's okay if you're just getting started through pillar page, cuz really a pillar page is meant to just be a really long content cluster. So just start adding everything you have on there and just lay it out in a logical sense. So don't uh, just throw stuff willy-nilly on it. Like don't go from like what this is about to, this is how you do it then to the why, like you need to start with like, you know, why and the what, and then go to the how, like, just like a story you don't just go straight to the climax of it

Nick Clason (16:38):
And, and let, let's throw like a couple pillar page examples, you know, in the show notes so that people can go check those out. Yeah,

Matt Johnson (16:44):
Absolutely.

Nick Clason (16:45):
See some of them what we're talking about. Yeah. But can you think of off top of your head or do we need to stop recording and then you, you comb your brain for some good pillar page

Matt Johnson (16:54):
Exams? No, there's a, there's a great pillar page that Typeform has, um, that I would love to, uh, that we can add into, um, the show notes and really the pillar page is all about uh, um, gosh, I can't remember. Give one second think

Nick Clason (17:14):
this is, uh,

Matt Johnson (17:15):
Brand awareness that thought it's about yeah, it's it's about brand awareness. Um, they did a whole pillar page about how you can build brand awareness, uh, Typeform data. And that's just been, uh, perfectly laid out. Actually I will even put it in our notes here. So you have it, love it. Um, and you can take a look at it, but this is really what Hillary pages should look like gives you how much, uh, time it would read. Uh, there's usually a table of content at the top and then you can jump through and find what you wanna read about. So, um,

Nick Clason (17:49):
I will link to that. You guys can see it. Yeah.

Matt Johnson (17:51):
Pick it out. And it's a perfect example of a pillar page and I need, I wanna reiterate pillar pages are big. So this pillar page is a 44 minute read and it's meant to build SEO. Like that's what it's meant for. So when I, uh, we were building a pillar page at a church now and you guys came to me about it and I was talking through with like the kids director and stuff. I was like, I need, let's

Nick Clason (18:10):
Be clear. You came up with the idea first. And then I said, we should do this and

Matt Johnson (18:15):
Then got

Nick Clason (18:15):
The kids director on board.

Matt Johnson (18:17):
So yes. Yeah. And I was sitting down with her and she's like, is that enough content? I was like, no, I need about 30,000 words. and I could see her go what? And I was like, okay, maybe not 30,000, but I need about 3000 words. Like I would need a lot of con copy for a pillar page to work. So it's something you constantly build. It's not just something that day one, you have 200 words and it's a blog post. Like a pillar page is not bigger than a blog post.

Nick Clason (18:42):
Does it take on like, like, okay, cuz I guess the way I'm looking at it, let's pretend it's like Instagram. So Instagram, if you're scrolling, it'll keep loading be beneath you and it'll just scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll until like, never like you can probably never really find the bottom of Instagram. Yep. However, like Google, right? Like it's, it's got a billion options, but at when you get to the bottom of your page, it'll be like go to page two. Yeah. Can it go either of those directions or is there one way that is better than the other

Matt Johnson (19:14):
Scroll scroll? Does that make sense? Scroll. Yeah, I would do scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll. Okay. And then if you wanna link to other stuff outside of it, that's totally fine. So like, Hey, go check out this blog. That's fine. And what that gives you is back links and you want back links and we back links. You have the higher websites weighted. It's all this weird stuff on the back. End of Google.

Nick Clason (19:34):
Yeah. Okay. Great. Love it. No, that's listen, dude. That's the type of stuff that I'm in idiot about, but uh, I know it's good. So I'm trying to learn.

Matt Johnson (19:41):
Yeah, no I'm here.

Nick Clason (19:43):
So yeah, pillar pages. Um, we took a little detour there, but that's, we're gonna, that's what this is episode is about. Like how do you build it? What are they, how are they advantageous? And so we can do with our 67% church adults who now have an online option, we can take some of that and use that to add to the pillar page mm-hmm . And so could you make it where it's like one week it's, uh, 62nd sermon recap with like the downloadable notes or something. And instead of them being downloadable, you're saying just type all those words into there,

Matt Johnson (20:13):
So that a hundred percent

Nick Clason (20:14):
It can be found. And then could you add to it next week, week two of the love sermon series and the 62nd recap clip and uh, the sermon notes or something like that.

Matt Johnson (20:24):
Exactly. Yeah. And you would be shocked on, I, I guarantee if someone, you little churches go out there and do that, you'll be weighed high on Google. Um, like do a, how to love, how to be loving as a Christian series. Um, cuz most places are not doing this most churches aren't doing this. And then secondly, uh, if they have done this it's so long ago that like, like you'll start to outweigh Google cuz you were creating new content for it.

Nick Clason (20:51):
So, uh, would you recommend like someone typing up a sermon recap or would you recommend just copy and pasting the pastor's manuscript notes?

Matt Johnson (21:01):
Uh, both. So the best solution would be to do a recap, but if you don't have time to do a recap, then just do the sermon notes right now. Like okay. Do the recap as like that's all right. I'm gonna make this better than do the recap.

Nick Clason (21:16):
Gotcha. Great. All right. So a couple other of stats I wanted to look into from the barn of study, 90% of people primarily engaged with the same church that they were committed to before. COVID and I think that that's a really, uh, hopefully a really helpful stat for us as pastors, because we feel like maybe this idea of all of us going online is they're gonna find something better and then they're gonna switch. Yeah. And they're not gonna wanna go to our church anymore. And our church isn't as good as elevation. They have verdict and they have band that makes music that's on Spotify. But 90% of, of churchgoers, primarily engaged with the same church, which communicates to me that most Christians are comm or are connected or committed right to their local body. They're not, they're not looking for something else. They, they have what they want. They have the community that they're, they're looking for. And so as a church, you putting your content out there, you may be, you know, so I've heard people say like, I don't wanna steal other people from other churches. Like that's that's that wouldn't be the goal. Right? The goal is to help nurture and disciple the people that are already going to your church.

Matt Johnson (22:30):
Exactly. Your online church should not be like, oh, I'm gonna steal someone. Else's congregation like this isn't some nefarious thing we're doing. It should be, Hey, we're here to nurture our 90% of people that are still engaged with our church, which that tells me, like you were just saying, they bought into your community that you built there. So yeah. Nurture them. give them stuff that makes them keep wanting to come back period.

Nick Clason (22:57):
Yeah. Well, not even keep wanting to come back, but like learn during the week.

Matt Johnson (23:01):
Exactly. Yeah. That's what I mean by that.

Nick Clason (23:04):
Yeah. Yeah. Not just, not just come to our church on Sunday. Yeah.

Nick Clason (23:08):
Uh, 78% of church dropouts are saying that they're waiting until services go back to normal before they return. I think that would be a lot of pastor's arguments of, well, see, see, we gotta go back to in person, we gotta go back to in person. And I don't, I don't think any of us are arguing that we shouldn't be back in person. Yeah. Uh, but I that's, I, I would be curious about that percentage of that stat. Hum. Those people are using that as an excuse as their church, uh, attendance patterns and disciplines have just completely faded away. Um, and they're just saying, oh yeah, I'm just waiting for it to go back to normal. Realizing that COVID has never really ended being normal. Like we're just still in this weird like world with it. And there is, I don't know if normal will ever come back the way it was. Cuz it's been two and a half freaking years.

Matt Johnson (23:56):
yeah, no, this is the new normal. And I would just like you were saying, I, my guess is that's probably us excuse for most people now. Um, mm-hmm they got out of the habit, which you know, we've we saw that in our own numbers and that's okay. Like go find the next seeds to sell.

Nick Clason (24:13):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure. And again, we're not proposing like, well yeah, you should stream your service. Like if you can, you should. But we're also saying that there's this there's more to just hybrid. It's not just take your Sunday morning experience and post it on Facebook live. Yeah. There we're, we're trying to make this much more dynamic than

Matt Johnson (24:33):
That. Exactly.

Nick Clason (24:35):
All right. A couple other quick, quick hitters here. Um, but one thing I found really interesting was 36% of church adults, um, that were at home and people with kids under the age of 18, which is like 41% say that they struggle to focus during online church. And again, I think that's another potentially like negative stat towards, towards digital. So what would you say if someone's like? Yeah, I mean I, online church is great and all, but like I got young kids, like I, I can't, it's hard to pay attention the whole time or it's hard to keep them, you know, from being too rowdy or whatever during church.

Matt Johnson (25:11):
Yeah. No, the data tells us that if you're just streaming your exact service online, you're gonna have

Nick Clason (25:18):
It's an hour and 15 minute

Matt Johnson (25:20):
Service. Yeah. You're gonna have more drop off. Um, just cuz that attention span on an hour and 15 minutes on anything screen related, that's not an action movie drops off. So, um, yeah, if they, they probably will just tune into the sermon and that's okay. Or some just tune into the worship. That's my mom, she loves the worship and then she likes listening to the sermon, um, when she's driving to work the next day, which is, yeah, that's an okay option too, but you're giving them the avenue. So I get that. You're gonna struggle to focus during online. Um, that's gonna happen, especially if you have kids, uh, as you know, and I'm learning so

Nick Clason (25:58):
Well, I'll tell you what, what we would do during COVID is we would watch like older people church upstairs, and then we would send our kids to the basement to watch, uh, like their kid service. Well, their kid service was over in like 12 minutes

Matt Johnson (26:13):

Nick Clason (26:14):
And so they come up at the end of worship. Yeah. And we're like, well, well, Hey, like go, Hey, let's watch, let's watch last week's again. And we, it was really hard, man. It was really hard. So it was hard to, it was hard to simulate church. Yep. Um, because it wasn't, I don't think it's meant to be that per se. No it's. And so I would, I would, as a, as a dad of kids under the age of five, I would agree with that stat wholeheartedly. Yep. Honestly, Easter 20, 20 Amanda and I watched church at like 10:30 PM when the kids are in bed.

Matt Johnson (26:49):
Yeah.

Nick Clason (26:49):
Like, because we are like, that's when we can in this, when we're unencumbered by them. Yeah. You know,

Matt Johnson (26:54):
So, and I think what we're landing on is like, it's okay to have these different avenues to consume the media. And also if you're like, Hey, I wanna, I wanna make our church service more, uh, more engaging for these people. Like then go solve that problem. Like go more power to you. Yeah,

Nick Clason (27:15):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. But to just overlay what you're doing in person on top of online, like that's, I don't know. I mean, dare I say it's a little lazy. Yeah. Like, and, and if you don't have the manpower for it, I get it. So we're not proposing that you reinvent the wheel, like crossroads in Cincinnati has a completely like custom hybrid online experience. Yep. And that's amazing. Right. I'll link I'll link theirs in the show notes too. I got somebody thinks to link in the show notes, but um, like the like yeah. So that's amazing, but they have the main power to do it. And you're probably again sitting here thinking like I barely have the main power to like do all the things I need to do. Um, and so we're not proposing that we're saying think, think about this as a side of the box, offer church streaming adjacent options. Not just only church streaming options. Exactly.

Nick Clason (28:06):
So, yeah. All right. A couple other real quick things. Um, this was interesting to me, I'll throw all these stats and stuff in the show notes, but so do you use the internet for faith purposes? So I'm just gonna read 'em and we'll kind of digest it. Practicing Christians set 66% of practicing. Christians said that they use the internet for faith purposes. 56% of church adults said that they use the internet for faith purposes. 36% of dropouts say that they use the internet for faith purposes, church, gen Z 67%, church millennials, 64% church, gen X, 58% church boomers, 42%. So I think a couple things that are interesting, obviously when you start with gen Z, it's the highest and it drops down as it gets to boomers. But one thing I notice is that even the gen Xers and the boomers still say almost 50% say that they use the internet for faith purposes. Mm-hmm . So if the argument is my church is old and this isn't for them, I, that categorically is untrue.

Matt Johnson (29:08):
Yep. Yeah, no, absolutely. And the only way to get younger is if you do it, so stats. I mean, that's what the stats are saying too. So if you're like, Hey, we wanna get younger, but we don't wanna, you know, kill our older, uh, congregation. Like they're gonna, they're all gonna be okay with it.

Nick Clason (29:29):
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, a, a church boomer will read a recap email. Like they, they respond email. My grandma reads email. In fact, my grandma couldn't connect to the internet the other day and was convinced that someone was trying to hack her bank account. And so I had to, I had to turn her wifi off and turn it back on and get her connected. And she thought that I am the number one, it director in the world.

Matt Johnson (29:55):
my grandpa, my grandpa, all the D coffee. TV's not working. Can you fix me? Like, did you unplug it? You're genius.

Nick Clason (30:07):
Yeah, but they'll read it. They'll read the emails, man. She, and dude, I was at my grandma's and she's like, can you help me unsubscribe from some emails? And I'm like, sure. So I'm like getting her set up with an UNS subscription service. And I was like, how about JC Penn? She's like, no, I like that one. . How about, how about your green bay Packers newsletter. Now I need to know what's going on. Withs green bay. Packer's newsletter. . How about this now? I, I need that gram. You don't actually wanna be in subscribe

Matt Johnson (30:30):
For anything Nope. Oh, that's fine.

Nick Clason (30:34):
All right. A couple another one that was interesting after C will church gatherings fit your life church, gen Z 37% said that both digital and physical would fit their lifestyle. 13% say that primary digital would fit their lifestyle. And 41% say physical will fit their lifestyle. So this is church gen Z. So I think one thing that stood out to me about this statistic, cuz that only 13% said that primarily primarily digital would be, uh, their preference for, uh, attending church post COVID mm-hmm . And so right. We continue to say gen Z, gen Z. And we, we are kind of pegging a lot of this on them and them as the future, but they still want in person, they're not looking for only digital. Exactly. We're looking for hybrid, which is what we're trying to find that, that sticky in between, between the two things.

Nick Clason (31:29):
Exactly. So, and same with millennials. Millennials are, uh, I think slightly higher, uh, 40% say that both online in person, 13% say primarily digital, which is the same as gen Z and then 42% say primarily physical. So they're right on the same track there as, as gen Zers. But they're saying that, um, basically the both that's hybrid man. Yep. Like that's what we're trying to say. Yep. They wanna come in person, but they also want to have access to it when they can't make it or for whatever reason, they're not able to be at church. They want to consume something online. Yep. So, so that's, that's it any other like kind of lasting thoughts that you had just through some of these statistics, like we'll, we'll link to the Barna, uh, ebook and so you can grab a copy of it yourself, but there are, uh, there's just a, there's a lot of really good and really interesting stuff in there. So any other thing that you are like, did you miss this? You should have highlighted this or just, or parting thoughts based on some of this data?

Matt Johnson (32:30):
No, I, I mean my biggest parting thought is like the, the data staying that hybrid is an avenue that we need to be exploring. So continue, um, exploring this avenue , I mean, don't, don't get discouraged, the data supports it.

Nick Clason (32:45):
Yeah. And get, and, and, you know, getting into hybrid, um, and getting into some of those digital platforms. Like it can be, it can be laborious and it can be cumbersome and setting up your account and then setting up your group and then setting up your payments, like all that stuff. Like, and it can get confusing because all those companies are trying to sell you things. Yeah. And they're all the best company and that's at least what they're telling you. And so you gotta, you gotta kind of slug slug through some of those things, like setting up email marketing, you know, uh, things or setting up, you know, CHMS things or just, it it's worth it, you know, but it can get, it can feel overwhelming at times. Yep. So stick with it. It's worth it. Find something that works. There's a lot of, um, free or light versions out there.

Nick Clason (33:35):
And probably for most of us that that will suffice at least for a while. Yeah. Until it gets to a spot where it needs to be, you know, super, super, uh, hefty as far as the payment is so sweet. Hey, uh, that's it for us on episode five? Um, maybe six. I actually can't really remember because, um, I think this was supposed to be episode five, but then I did one last week by myself. Yep. And so this may actually be episode six. I think it is, but yeah. Glad to have you guys, uh, subscribe, uh, follow us on Twitter at hybrid ministry. Also check out our website hybrid ministry.xyz. Uh, give us a rating. Pull open your purple podcast app search hybrid ministry. We're right there. We're number one. If you search that word and give us a little rating, that'd be awesome. I love it. And until next time see you guys later. Thanks guys. Was

Matt Johnson (34:28):
That just had some nasty bug on.