See Nick Sip his Coffee, don't just hear it: https://www.youtube.com/@clasonnick
Daily TikTok Clips: https://www.tiktok.com/@Clasonnick
Shownotes & Transcripts for this Episode: https://www.hybridministry.xyz/047

SHOWNOTES
Building a Digital Strategy from Scratch
https://www.hybridministry.xyz/011

The Results PDF
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vNimYieoP8N8gbDX-cxQssRrez5Lmo-f/view?usp=share_link

6 Part Social FRAMEWORK
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLngXlSr64YaIbzg_DNJrTrCtBHQnxcOVo

My Student Ministry's Website/Hub
crosscreekchurch.com/students
Q&A Link
Brady Response to Theology in the Raw Podcast
https://podtail.com/podcast/pro-church-tools-with-brady-shearer/christian-author-urges-churches-to-not-use-tiktok-/

Can you Be Discipled Completely Online?
VIDEO: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1-U_mfQEoI&t=7s
AUDIO: https://www.hybridministry.xyz/042

TIMECODES
00:00-04:03 Intro
04:03-13:37 What is the Current State of our Current Social Media and Generation Z Demographics?
13:37-17:20 How are we doing on TikTok?
17:20-19:18 How are we doing on YouTube?
19:18-21:20 How are we doing on Instagram?
21:20-22:33 How are we doing on Facebook?
22:33-26:05 What this means for my social media moving forward?

TRANSCRIPT
Nick Clason (00:01):
Well, hello everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Hybrid and Ministry podcast. I, as always am your host, Nick Clason, sip my coffee. If you're on the YouTube stream, you get to see here and listen to this beauty rest of y'all said to be with you. Sorry that you had to endure that, uh, coffee pause, but thrilled to be with you. And in today's episode we have, um, a little bit of a recap. And so I, I linked a couple of things down in the show notes, but you'll notice, um, and if you were around, um, or have been around for a minute, you'll know that, well, I just recently started a new job and I say recently, um, within the last, you know, 11 months or nine months or so, started in September. So whenever this is airing, you can do the math on that, right?

Nick Clason (00:53):
And, um, I dropped an episode, episode 11, um, a little bit, just honestly a little bit of a filler episode. I was trying to limp myself through, uh, thinking I was gonna get a co-host back. Never did. May he rest in peace. He's not actually dead, but, um, he's dead to this podcast and I miss him. But, um, we have moved on and, and gone on to greater things. Anyway, um, the episode was flushing out a digital strategy. And so in that episode, I spent a lot of time talking about website, email, seo. And then in, um, our, one of our more recent runs of episodes, we dropped the complete six part social media framework, seven episodes with an intro. And so I have linked that playlist on YouTube, uh, that playlist to YouTube. It's also on our podcast catcher, just, um, you know, in order for seven weeks in a row.

Nick Clason (01:44):
So you can go back and listen to 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. You can see them in your feed here either way. Um, but I wanted to drop both of those because basically, um, that's what I have been on this podcast saying, you should do this, you should do that. Here's why. Here's the strategy behind those things. And now I am going to take those things and I am going to report them to you how they're going. So the first part, um, of that was, you know, website and email. I'll just be very clear, I don't have any analytics to go off of that. We use Church Community Builder and we send all of our emails through that and for two reasons. Number one, I don't care enough. And number two, um, someone has told us that we are unable to track open and click rates. I don't know that that's entirely true, but again, I don't care enough and I haven't dove into that, just being completely frank.

Nick Clason (02:30):
Um, I know I should, but I haven't, haven't really had time. So I don't have any analytics on that. The other thing is our website. I can show you what we came up with. I'm not, uh, personally a huge fan of it. Um, there are limitations and constraints, um, both by our website builder and by the way that our website is built and fleshed out to the rest of the church that make ours, um, less than what we would hoped and less than optimal. Um, but you know, if you've ever worked in church any bit of time, you know that there's a just a game to play with getting along with the other people. So, um, I can, I'll link our website to, in the show notes. You can check it out and see, um, if you know what I said in episode 11 matches what we have now, I don't think it does.

Nick Clason (03:13):
Um, so I'm just gonna give that full disclosure. You can look at and like, this stinks and I can be like, yeah, I know. Um, but anyway, uh, all that to be said, I am gonna dive into our stats on YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok. But before I do, like I said, so thrilled to have you, if you wouldn't mind dropping a rating or a review or a like, or a subscribe on YouTube, that would be incredible. We're also trying to start gathering some questions for a couple coup a couple future q and a episodes. So if you don't mind, head to our website, link to that in the show notes as well, um, with just some, uh, questions and things that you have about regarding social media, running, social media, digital ministry, any of those types of things we would love to answer them.

Nick Clason (03:53):
But without any further ado, let's dive into this episode called Progress Report 2023. How am I actually doing? Let's go. What is the current state of our social media and our Generation Z demographics? First of all, let's look at some overall social media data. So what we know is that we have 4.7 billion people that are using social media worldwide. That is 59% of the population. And when you look at that through the lens of the Great Commission, go therefore and preach the gospel to the entire world, making disciples of all nations baptized them, the name of the father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Like you see that, that social media is actually an opportunity to preach the gospel to all nations, at least 59% of the population. In addition to that two hours and 29 minutes is the average daily time spent using social media.

Nick Clason (04:51):
And 73% of customers, according to a, um, a company called Wise Owl prefer to watch a video than they do prefer to read a text-based post. This is like marketing. So this is like a company saying like they'd rather watch a text ad than l read a, uh, or they'd rather watch a video ad than read a text ad. And then, um, 96% of people in the world have ever watched an explainer type of video. And finally, people are two times more likely to share video content than other content. So that's social media worldwide. Here's what we have about Gen Z. And if you've been on this podcast or listened to us any length of time, you've heard these before, but Generation Z is the first generation in history to use their mobile device more than any other device. So more than any other device, I should say combined.

Nick Clason (05:44):
Okay? So Gen Z is using their mobile device at a alarmingly high rate. They are not just digital natives, like they are becoming digitally dependent. And, um, I shared this I think on a recent episode as well, but Jen Alpha behind them is going to be even more digitally dependent. The mobile device is the key to all of this, and I know if you're listening, you're thinking that's bad. We need to get them away from it and uh, it might be bad. Um, I don't know that we're getting anybody away from it. So I think the question needs to shift to be like instead of how do we get people away from it? Because let's be honest right now, if you're listening to this, you're using your mobile device right now, if you're on a road trip, let's be honest, you're probably using your mobile device as your GPS today.

Nick Clason (06:27):
You're probably looking at your calendar on your mobile device. And are all of those things possible? Can you buy an old school GPS and um, use a paper daytimer and listen to a podcast just on your computer while you're sitting in the office? Technically, yes, but it's not very convenient, right? Your mobile device is your one stop shop, your hub for almost everything in your life. And so it's not just about social media, it is the fact that it is a lifeline. It is a lifeblood. It is everything that you do and that you use. And so the problem with that is a lot of times we try to disciple teens, gen Z, young people away from their phones when what we need to be doing is help produce within them good digital hygiene and good coping mechanisms and good, uh, skills with interacting with their phone and using, learning how to grow in their faith while having a phone as a part of their life as opposed to just discarding it and getting away from it.

Nick Clason (07:25):
Because yeah, we can, you know, just scale back and go to, uh, flip phones. But two things. One, probably most people are not going to opt into that. And two, it's actually more expensive and more inconvenient to do that through the cell phone companies. So how do we help move people through and, and help them grow in discipleship? I just think, I honestly think that is a sign of a time, a thing that any of us in church ministry leadership, youth ministry, whatever your role is in church staff, that's something that we're going to have to be prepared to do. That's a conversation that we need to be willing to have. And I just think that pulling back and just saying no thanks to it is not very, um, it is just, is not good stewardship of what God has given us. In fact, what I'll do is I'll link, uh, an episode to, um, one of the pro church tool shows that Brady Shearer, he actually did a response episode to, uh, a guy who was on Preston Sprinkles podcast talking about the dangers of technology.

Nick Clason (08:24):
And I thought that him and his co-host Alexander Mills had really, really great thoughts and responses to it, and it lines up a lot with what I think. So I'll link that episode in the show notes, if you're interested in that, go check them out. They're amazing. Love everything that they do. But go check that out. Okay. Um, further data on Gen Z, millennials and subsequently Gen Z I should say, have said that a hybrid version of church will suit their needs going forward in a post pandemic world. That comes from Bara's recent study came out about a year or so ago on Bara's six findings of the hybrid and future of the church that, um, I was already thinking about doing this podcast, but I hadn't launched it yet. So that came out right around when I launched this podcast. And, and I love that word hybrid.

Nick Clason (09:06):
Um, and, and Barna used that word hybrid and it's just, it's, I've, I've latched onto a lot of the data out of that thing. And so, uh, hybrid is one of the means and measures going forward that Gen Z and millennials prefer. Um, I just think we have to do that in such a way that we don't lose the good elements of in-person ministry or in-person community, um, and give them, you know, like a framework to help them grow in their faith but not become too dependent upon technology. And I just think that's a tricky balance to walk and I think that you and I are the leaders that God has chosen to help navigate that. Finally, greater than 80% of 18 to 29 year olds, which is the youngest age data available legally, cuz you can't survey anyone under the age of 18. Um, greater than 80% use at least one social media app regularly, which is the highest of all the age breakdowns between 18 29, 30 to, you know, 39, whatever the breakdowns are.

Nick Clason (10:01):
Um, and we can just assume that it's gonna be higher in generations younger than the age of 18. Um, and moving forward. So all that being said, social media, cell phone usage, and hybrid ministry, not really going anywhere. That's a backdrop basis for why we do this. Why I'm so passionate about hybrid ministry. If you go back and listen to the intro of episode 11, I say I'm in the buckle of the Bible Belt, Dallas, Texas, I'm at a church that barely shut down for covid and I'm in a ministry that is thriving with an in-person moment. They're not clamoring, begging, or looking for hybrid. So why did we lean into it? This is the reason why, right? Like this is why we went for some of these things. We pushed the chips in on the middle because, well, right now it may not be a priority, it may not be on the forefront of people's minds.

Nick Clason (10:50):
It is the currency, it is the, the native tongue of generation Z and subsequently soon to be generation alpha. And so we wanna at least be out there doing some stuff, trying some stuff. Listen, I'll be the first to say, and this is the report is gonna yield this a little bit. I don't know for sure if what I'm doing is the best way to reach disciple, preach the gospel to generation Z and generation alpha. However, the fact that we're doing things makes whatever potential future shift, um, possible, makes us be able to adapt quicker because we have cameras, we have infrastructure, we have someone thinking about it. We have, we're posting regularly, we can watch some of those trends. So rather than just sit back and wait for the picture, perfect thing, we're gonna go out there and we're gonna try some stuff and we're gonna tweak and adapt along the way.

Nick Clason (11:43):
And we are like, I have some shifts coming and I'm gonna let you know about those at the end of the episode or in a future episode. So all that to be said, like this is why we're doing it in person is important, it matters, it's meaningful. But episode, I believe it's 42. Uh, can you be discipled exclusively online? I don't think the answer is an either or a both. And my my conclusion is that if someone really wants to learn and hone in on some of their skills, they can do that. And I gave several examples of things that I have learned without ever having any sort of in-person experience or moment. Um, my wife included, like, there are a lot of ways that you can learn and you can dive deep in all sorts of topics. And the Bible should not, does not have to be excluded from that.

Nick Clason (12:30):
Like, that is very much a, a possibility, um, of things that we can do. And the beautiful thing is, as a church, if we offer some of those moments and some of those learnings, we have to go with that. We compare with online stuff, we compare in-person moments, we compare authentic community, family feelings, and we confuse those two things together. That's where hybrid really has its opportunity to, to make its most like impact. I think you don't have to be either or both. And like the reason in episode 42, can you be discipled exclusively online? The reason that I don't have a relationship with any of the people from the Oklahoma City Thunder podcast, it's because I don't live in Oklahoma City. I've never had an opportunity to get to know them. I'm three hours away now in Dallas, but before that I've been like 12 hours or 15 hours away from Oklahoma City.

Nick Clason (13:20):
Online was the only way, it was the only path forward for learning the only path forward for education. And, and so I took it, okay? But now as a church, we can offer these things online that also supplement and go right along with what we're doing in person. All right, so how are we doing on TikTok In just 11 years, from 2011 to 2022, TikTok grew from estimated zero users to around 1 billion estimated users. That is the fastest, most skyrocketed, um, growth. It's behind Facebook at 2.9 billion. YouTube at 2.2 billion, Instagram at 1.4 billion. And then TikTok is at 1 billion. Obviously we're assuming that that's going to continue to move and grow. And so I wanna share some of our individual personalized data. And I'll be honest, TikTok has adjusted some of their algorithm. There's a lot of people even on the TikTok four U page lamenting that shift in talking and chatting through why people's views are stuck at two 300.

Nick Clason (14:20):
And we're squarely there. I'm just gonna lay it out for you fully, you know, completely, honestly. Um, but, but all that being said, okay, um, we started at our TikTok account in mid-September, maybe October. Um, so somewhere around there. And whenever you're listening to it, I'm recording this on May the third. And so I have the most up-to-date data based on May the third. I also shifted our TikTok account, um, the second day of March, I believe. So we, uh, right around two now at this point, um, shifted it to a business profile account, okay? And so we have the ability to have some creator tools and some deeper analytics that only really date back to March. And so we have, um, lifetime data, which we have, we are following 18 accounts. We have 236 followers, and we have 7,473 likes. Not amazing, honestly, it's not, um, most I will say though of our followers are completely organic.

Nick Clason (15:18):
And so you gotta think in, uh, a church that runs its student ministry, about 200 people. Um, we have reached basically 200 and, uh, 36 completely random people. Um, and TikTok followers are not the same as YouTube followers. They don't, they, they don't respond the same. Um, I've heard that from other like creators and stuff like that. All that being said, you just gotta think like 10 years ago, 20 years ago, would you as a pastor or would you as a social ministry or social media manager want the desire to have an audience, 236 people, um, that, that commit to follow you? That doesn't even include views and likes and those types of things, right? Just followers. Would you want that? And most of us would, would say yes. And so well, I might be like, man, that's not amazing. I know I'm aware of it, right?

Nick Clason (16:06):
Like I'm running it actively. Um, it's, it's still also not nothing, right? Okay, so what about since we converted to a business profile. So here's some of the stuff that we have. Video views 34,184, we have 308 profile views. We have 2,827 likes, we have 84 comments and we have 118 shares. Furthermore, if you dive into just specifically last week's content and analytics, um, here's what I'll do. I will link this report. I won't bore you with this, but I'll, I'll just pull out, um, at a quick glance. I haven't even like really dove into it deeply. Yeah, I think the highest view that we had was just like 269, um, with a couple of comments and the like, and you know, like 22 or something like that likes, and, and that was me filming a game of some of our students playing a game called App Store Showdown.

Nick Clason (16:57):
So you can see that, like, it doesn't require you being all up on trends. Like, I recorded a game, I did some edit, some brief editing, and I made, you know, I had 10 questions on it or whatever, and I made 10 slides and then I'm just sprinkling 'em out, scheduling 'em out throughout the month. So not super difficult. That is our most recent up to date TikTok Analytics. All right, so let's talk about YouTube. What is it go looking like on YouTube? You'll know that I'm a big proponent of YouTube. I think that shorts are much more advantageous to use right now. And I also think that if you post, um, messages or any sort of like spiritual content than all of your short form content, because by the way I should have said this earlier, everything we're doing is short form content on all of these platforms.

Nick Clason (17:46):
Like, there's barely any other strategy around anything else. And so if you have those, having something longer on YouTube allows you to push your content, um, and push your people or anyone that stumbles across any of your videos to follow you for longer form stuff. YouTube is the second or third, depending on who you talk to, largest search engine in the world. And if it's considered third, it's only behind Google Images. So it's Google, Google images, and then YouTube. If Google, if you consider Google images a part of Google, then it's the second, right? Because Google and Google images are the same. And then YouTube is the second. So our analytics, we have 126 current subscribers in the year 2023, which is our YouTube channel's only been around since January of, uh, first of 2023. We have gotten, um, 52,432 views in our videos. We've had 291 hours of watch time and our subscribers are up to, uh, up by 125, cuz I think I subscribed before it launched in in January.

Nick Clason (18:50):
Um, so 126 subscribers. Um, our top performing long form video has gotten 56 views, four hours of watch time, um, I think 18 subscribes. And then our, our analytics, our channel analytics is that we have 32,000 unique viewers, 42, um, returning viewers, and then, uh, plus 80 on subscribers from people who have, uh, come across our stuff on you. All right, so what about Instagram? While Instagram is skewing older and older being used primarily by millennials, there's still 62% of us teens that claim to be users of Instagram. Our Instagram, like most of you, you probably have had an Instagram account for a while, and that's the same with us. We inherited an Instagram account of all the things. TikTok was new, YouTube was new, and our Facebook page is uh, also a retread. But the main thing we're doing on Facebook is our parent group, which is also new.

Nick Clason (19:49):
So Facebook, Instagram, something that has already existed. Everything else completely brand new. So all the data I have been, I have been sharing with you is from things that, um, are completely brand new. So we inherited an Instagram account, so these stats are gonna be a little more leveled off. Two reasons. One, we already had a pretty big following on there, so we're not gonna see some of that skyrocketed type growth. And secondly, um, it's, it's skewing older and it's being used less and less by current Gen Z teenagers. So we've had 1,829 profile visits. Um, in the year 2023, we have 785 Instagram followers. Um, I have age demographic breakdown, but the highest, honestly 20% is 35 to 44 year old women. So we just got a all moms on there, right? Um, we do have 18 to 24 year olds and it doesn't go younger than that.

Nick Clason (20:40):
Um, as a high, that just might be also cuz teenagers have to lie about their age to get on there. Um, and then Instagram reach is 122,872. Um, they say that that's a 0% change though, so we're pretty much holding steady. Uh, that being said, we have reached, since January 31st to April 30th, we have reached 40,900. We have, uh, 576 accounts engaged and we have 785 total followers. So I say all that to say like, while Instagram is slower and whatever, there are still valuable data happening here on Instagram. 32% of users on Facebook are teenagers. That's not a lot. Is it worth doing? It's not a lot. It's also not nothing. And, um, you can very seamlessly link your Instagram and Facebook. And so I don't even go to Facebook. I literally post on Instagram and also double post on Facebook. And so, like I shared a couple episodes ago, um, the lottery ticket vibes, um, of just posting it in four places, sometimes some's gonna hit and sometimes it's gonna hit over on Facebook.

Nick Clason (21:49):
And so our page and profile data, which are the things that have existed, but we've, um, recently revitalized a little bit. We've had 656 page visits, that's up 283.6%. We have, uh, reached 26, um, on our post reach tw uh, I'm not, I'm not, I'm sorry, not 26. 23,000. Um, our Facebook page reach is 37,803. Um, but probably the best thing I think that we have going on in the last 60 days, we've added 80 total members to our parent Facebook page and none of that, zero of that is from organic growth. That is all from like people in our church. We send out an email, they click, they join our Facebook group. All right, so in conclusion, uh, I'm not stopping, right? Like we're gonna keep barreling forward. I've been posting three times a day, um, five days a week on all of these platforms.

Nick Clason (22:45):
I do think one of the things I want to do is I have been focusing a little bit more just, you know, full disclosure on quantity, uh, as opposed to quality now that I'm trying to put crappy stuff out there, but by posting three times a day, 15 different posts a week, like that just becomes a lot. And it's hard for every single one of those to be really good and really meaningful. And so I wanna start spending a little bit more time on the edit, um, which is just going to have to ultimately reduce the number I'm doing. Uh, that being said, I don't know that I'm gonna see much of a depreciable drop off from three to two. And so really like I'm trying to do like one spiritual post a day and one fun or interesting post a day. Like I said, I'm not just like some consultant out there trying to like get rich tell you a bunch of stuff and not care about the results.

Nick Clason (23:32):
Like I am a youth pastor. I am trying to live into these hybrid moments. And so I just wanted to share with you, I pulled some of these results for the first time, uh, for a work thing and I wanted to share with y'all. I mean, here's the thing, right? Like none of these numbers are outlandish. And the reality is like, I, I don't think they are. Maybe you heard them and you're like, wow, that sounds crazy. Like I'd love that. Let me just encourage you, lean in, like you can do this. Like nothing I've done in my personal opinion is that insane, that difficult, that crazy, that hard to, to come by. So just wanna encourage you, uh, you can get these same results cuz we have been very much middle of the road with our results. Nothing viral, nothing crazy. So just go for it, lean in, make it happen.

Nick Clason (24:14):
You can do it. Hey, as always, so excited to have y'all with us for this episode. If you're not subscribed to the YouTube channel or us on podcast, please do that or consider a rating or a review share with a friend. Help us get the word out. That would be phenomenal. We would love it. Um, we also wanna let you know about our 100% completely free ebook. Um, there are also some free downloads in this episode, the report, the analytics, um, other episodes and show notes and things that we've talked through. And go check all of those things out. That's at hybridministry.xyz/047 And until next time, and as always, don't forget, stay hybrid.

Join the Email List, Get FREE Stuff: https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/ebook
Complete Transcripts Available: http://www.hybridministry.xyz/041
Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9pjecCnd8FVFCenWharf2g
Come Follow Nick on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@clasonnick

SHOWNOTES
6 PART CHURCH SOCIAL MEDIA FRAMEWORK:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLngXlSr64YaIbzg_DNJrTrCtBHQnxcOVo

Episode Referenced:
https://careynieuwhof.com/episode549/

TIMECODES
00:00-02:24 Intro
02:24-05:15 Everything you do is Marketing
05:15-08:03 Every Touch Point Matters - Church Marketing from Street to Seat
08:03-11:51 The Reality of Hybrid - Beyond Street to Seat
11:51-15:40 What "est" is your church?
15:40-1643 Outro

TRANSCRIPT
Nick Clason (00:01):
Well, hello there everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Hybrid Ministry podcast. We are now officially finished with the six part church social media framework. Be sure to head to the link in the show notes, either http://www.hybridministry.xyz/041 for this episode of the Hybrid Ministry Podcast. Or if you're watching on YouTube, be sure to check out the link in a description where we have linked the full and complete hybrid ministry church, social media, six part framework, four churches in 2023. We walk through setting up a platform all the way at YouTube through TikTok, through Instagram, through Facebook, linking all of your accounts, how to use email, text, messaging, website, and then finally, how to put all those together for a completely full free and flushed out church social media framework. We hope that you find that helpful, advantageous, beneficial. Just wanna say thank you for watching.

Nick Clason (01:02):
Thank you for sharing. Uh, the month of February and March have been our two highest downloaded months in the entire history of the podcast. We could not do what we are doing without you, so, so thankful that you are along for the ride and for the journey. One major piece of the church social media framework is short form video content. That's the beautiful thing with YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, and Facebook. All four of them right now are focusing on short form video content. And so I wanna encourage you, if you have not hit the link in the show notes to check out our 100% completely free ebook, our ebook, which asks the question, have I already ruined my, ruined my church's TikTok account? The short answer to that is probably not, but we wanna help you walk through taking a step-by-step approach to filming, posting, editing, adding audio, all the things that you need to do for short form video content.

Nick Clason (01:52):
And you can do that right in the TikTok app. And then you can take that same video and you can disseminate it out to all the other social media platforms. Once again, so thrilled that you are here for this episode. In this episode, we are going to be looking at Starbucks. Does Starbucks actually market more on that in just a minute? Last thing I just wanna ask you for is if you are available, interested or willing to give us a five star review, that will be incredible. A subscribe, a rating or review. All of those things help get the word out about what we are doing here on this podcast to help you get out to the masses and the people who are along for this journey, and also trying to navigate this church communications, church social media landscape of 2023. Without any further ado, let's dive into this question.

Nick Clason (02:39):
Does Starbucks Market? Hey everyone. I was recently listening to a podcast the other week, um, and I'm gonna link it in the show notes. It was with Bill McKendry. He is the, um, the guy kind of behind the, um, Jesus ads that you might have seen in the Super Bowl, the ads. Um, he gets us and he was on with Carrie Newk, who is a prolific author, podcaster, blogger in the Christian kind of Roman space and in leadership. And they were talking about, um, marketing, the whole idea of marketing. And so there's just so many good things in that episode. If you haven't listened to it or list or heard it yet, check the link in the description. But one of the things he said really stood out to me, and I kind of want to, um, dive into that a little bit deeper, especially with a lens and an eye for and towards church, um, marketing and church spaces.

Nick Clason (03:27):
And so he said he had a conversation with Howard Schultz of Starbucks, and he said that, um, everybody, this is what Howard Schultz, the guy of Starbucks, I said, everybody assumes that branding and marketing is all about advertising. It's not right. And he goes on to say, if you think that branding and marketing are just about advertising, then you really don't understand branding at all. So you might be thinking like, what is he even talking about? And the the reality is, is that what McKenzie Cano is pointing out to to new H on the podcast is he says, you don't see a lot of Starbucks ads or commercials, do you and Kerry Newhouse's like, no, I guess you're right. I I don't really see a lot of those things. And McKendry goes, that's because of this guy Howard Schultz. He says, every single thing you do is branding.

Nick Clason (04:10):
Every single thing you do lends itself toward marketing. And so you might be thinking as a church like, well, that sounds great. That sounds amazing actually, cuz we don't have a giant budget. And you know what actually it is. But if you are a church with a small budget and you don't have someone with an eye for this or someone who has the intentionality towards what Howard Schultz of Starbucks is actually doing, it's going to be difficult for you in my personal opinion. And so, um, I wanted to think through what Starbucks actually does, like what they consider a successful, um, encounter, a successful opportunity. And so if every single thing you do is marketing, if every single thing you do is branding, that means that every single touchpoint matters. And so what McKendry was pointing out to New H in the podcast is he was saying, that's why Starbucks cups look so cool.

Nick Clason (04:56):
That's why there's such a particular way that every Starbucks is, uh, required by corporate to be laid out. That's why the music is a certain level. That's why the vibe looks a certain way. All of that stuff matters. And so I just wanna kind of pause and think through that, through the lens and through the eyes of the church. So if every single touchpoint matters, let's think about somebody visiting, coming to, um, exploring your church for the very first time. Um, let's think through they are going to be going from the street to the seat. So what are all of the touchpoints between the street and to the seat? So when they pull in the signage that they see the way your parking lot looks, how upkept is your, are your ground? Do you have a parking lot team? Do you have signage for visitors?

Nick Clason (05:43):
Flash your lights if you're a visitor, honk your horn If you're a visitor, do you have people with signs? Do you have greeters? Once they finally park their car and they get out, how are they greeted? Are your greeters just glorified door holders that a lump of, uh, block of wood could also accomplish their job? Or are your greeters actively looking for new guests, actively greeting people standing at the door, keeping the door propped open? You know, more than just standing there and saying, hello sir, hello ma'am. But like, are they using names? Are they trying to get to know people? Are they helping escort new people to the lobby? What does your lobby look like? What's your guest experience in the lobby look like? Do you have a newcomers welcome kit or anything like that? Are you just gonna give them a mug, which is what every single church in America does?

Nick Clason (06:30):
Or are you giving them some sort of tailor-made thing that's gonna be maybe a little bit more beneficial or advantageous to them as a family? Um, how is the kids' check-in process as a dad of young kids? The kids' check-in process when it's assumed that you know what's going on is an absolutely awful experience. So what does that experience look like for people who have no idea what they're doing? Is it clear where they're supposed to go? What do they do if they're new? How do they fill out the information needed to get a kid checked in? How long does that process actually take? Is it clear where they're supposed to go? Is your room, are your room layouts clear? Is your building clean? Does your kids' area seem safe? Do you have safety? Do you have security? Do you have people with branded t-shirts for your church and all the way through finally walking into the auditorium?

Nick Clason (07:20):
How does you know the, how does the bulletin look? How does the actual auditorium look? How do the screens look? How, like, think about the all of that and this like, this is leaning a little bit. Guest services, I get it right? And I'm, I'm doing that all with the, the purpose. But like, but I want you to think about this. When is the last time that you walked through your church building through looking through the lens and eyes of a first time guest, someone who has no idea, no context, no framework for what it's like being in your church? That's what I want to encourage you to do. I want you to encourage you to think about those things. And then the reality is this, is that if every single touchpoint matters, think about all the opportune touchpoints that we just walked through. So let's talk about the reality of hybrid.

Nick Clason (08:07):
This is the hybrid ministry podcast after all. And a lot of times we focus on digital because I think most churches do actually do a decent job at least having their, their mind or their eyes set on the physical or thinking about and thinking through what a physical experience is going to look like for somebody coming to your church newcomer or someone who's been going to your church for a hundred years. But what does your pre street to seat experience look like? See, the reality is most churches do have someone thinking street to seat. They have someone thinking guest services, they have someone thinking worship team, tech team, kids team. Like you have someone thinking about that, whether they're doing a good job or not. That may be a whole nother story. But what about before they ever even determine they're going to come to your church?

Nick Clason (08:54):
Because here's the god honest truth, most people are not just driving by at a Sunday morning at 8 45, 9 o'clock, whatever time they would need to be driving past your church and be like, you know what we should do? We should go to church. Like they're going to come to that decision over a, a sequence of weeks, months. Um, and maybe it's from driving by your church, maybe it's from seeing an ad. Maybe it's from seeing t-shirts that people are wearing of your church in and around the community. Maybe it's just a word of mouth recommendation, any sort of thing. But the, the fact is, once someone that has narrowed in their focus on your church, they have gotten to that conclusion and they have come to that place for one reason or another. What was that reason? And then, and then here's what they're gonna do.

Nick Clason (09:44):
If they're under the age of 35 or 40, probably they're more than likely going to check your church out online everywhere. Your website, your socials, your livestream, your kids' ministry page, all those types of things. I'll give you an example. A couple weeks ago it was March Madness and my wife, um, and I were watching March Madness. Let me be more clear. I was watching March Madness and I was trying to get her interested in March Madness. And there was a commercial about wings from Wingstop, which I'm not a big Wingstop guy, it's very, um, commercial. It's very chain. That's not my thing. I don't love Wingstop, don't love beat up. I love like a good kinda like dive bar wing place. That's, that's typically my preference when it comes to wings. And so my wife was like, you know, sounds good Wings. And I was like, I mean, yeah, wings always sound good to me, but for that night wings sounded good to her.

Nick Clason (10:37):
And so she started googling in our town Best Wings in our Town and started getting all these recommendations, Yelp, Google Maps, five stars, four stars, four and a half stars, whatever. And we found this little bar that served wings that were supposedly pretty good. And so we start researching that, researching the wings, and then we're like, okay, is this gonna be a place that like, is kid friendly? Like can we bring our kids to this bar? Is that gonna be okay? And so we start like researching that and reading through the reviews and reading through what people say. My point in saying all of that is that before we ever stepped foot in that restaurant, we did all kinds of different research. Not a ton, right? But like five to 10 minutes worth of research about wings, about the environment, about the prices, about the menu, all those things before we ever took our step into the, um, the bar.

Nick Clason (11:31):
And so I just wanna say that, and I just want to encourage you as a church to start thinking greater than street to seat. Every single touchpoint that you offer from your church matters. If that's what Starbucks does, which is the largest coffee chain in America, then your church can probably learn a couple of things from Starbucks. Another thing that was fascinating from the episode that I want to point out here before we wrap it up is that he went on to talk about this marketing and branding firm that works with all kinds of different competitors. And he used the example of Walmart and Target and he said, each and every competitor, each and every store, each and every entity, whatever it is, can only have one e s T. And when he said e s t, he said, for example, like Walmart is the cheapest and Target is the coolest.

Nick Clason (12:20):
But I just wanna ask you a question. Is Walmart always the cheapest? Sometimes Target is actually cheaper than Walmart, but you could, you, and he uses this example in the podcast. He says, there's a guy who's like, I, I would throw on slippers and a hoodie and not wash or wash my hair, brush my teeth, anything like that, just head into Walmart and grab something quick. But if I wanna go to Target, I gotta get myself ready, right? Why is that? He said, because each of those places have embraced what their e s t is Walmart being cheapest, target being coolest. So what is that for your church? You probably have something in mind, whether you've thought about it or not, um, spoken or unspoken, just about every place has an E s T that they want to be. What we often run into as agencies, churches, whatever, is that we want to be multiple of them.

Nick Clason (13:09):
Well, we wanna be the coolest and we wanna be the cheapest and we want, you just can't be that. You have to pick one of those things and really hone in on it. So is your church gonna be the church that's all about worship or is your church gonna be the church that's all about kids and student ministry? Or is your church gonna be the church that's all about ex expositional, expository preaching? Is your church gonna be the trendy church? Is your church gonna be the church with good coffee? Is your church? You see what I'm saying? And like, those things matter, but like one thing often rises above and rises to the top of what your church is. And and this is true of businesses and whatnot. And here's the thing. He used an example in the podcast. He says, Southwest Airlines always said, we love you, we love our customers.

Nick Clason (13:52):
And he said, that works until it doesn't. And when Southwest had their debacle around Christmas and they couldn't get people home for their Christmas and family gatherings, no amount of messaging, no amount of like, we love you, we are the airline oven for the people. None of that mattered. He said anymore why? He was like, because they failed. Like they dropped the ball big time and people didn't feel that love sitting in the airport for 24, 36, 48, 72 hours. That is not the messaging that Southwest was giving across during those times. And so you can say what you are, but then you also have to turn around and deliver it. And so everything you do about your church, every single touchpoint that you make, it matters. So what are you going to do? What is that, that key core marker that you're going to be with your church?

Nick Clason (14:41):
And listen, I would, I would recommend if you're a youth pastor, if you're a church communications person, a church social media person listening to this podcast, you're probably gonna wanna have to have a sit with some upper level leadership around this conversation. If you're not a person at the table to have that conversation, ask your direct report. Hey, what, like, how, how can we come up with this? And your church may already have had some of those things. So then go back through and grade those things. Hire a secret shopper, like all sorts of different things. But I like, I just, I wanna point out that I think most churches do a good job, a decent job, you know, with people like secret shoppers, first time guests, all those things. But what are you communicating beyond the doors, beyond the Sunday morning, beyond your primary meeting experience?

Nick Clason (15:26):
And what is your messaging to them? Because if, well he said the Starbucks guy, everything you do is branding, then have you taken enough time to distill that one to your primary core, what your messaging is going to be? Well, thanks everyone for hanging out again for another episode in the Books Hybrid Ministry episode 41. We are now only about 15. No, that's a less than that. We're like 11, 10, 11 episodes away from one year worth of podcasting. So we'll do something exciting on episode 52. I'll need to look, cuz I have a couple bonus episodes that have dropped that have, you know, kind of messed with our, our numbering there or whatever. But, but super excited to be with you, grateful that you're continuing to be along in the journey. Hey, if you have questions, if you wanna get in touch with me, follow me on YouTube, follow me on TikTok, hit me up in the dm, head to our website, hybridministry.xyz. We would love to hear from you. We would love to start answering some questions. So if you have those, send them our way. But once again, thrilled that you were here with us and we will talk to you next time. And don't forget, and as always, stay hybrid.

Follow Along on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9pjecCnd8FVFCenWharf2g
TikTok: http://www.tiktok.com/@clasonnick
Transcripts: http://www.hybridministry.xyz/040

SHOWNOTES
//TRAILER
https://www.hybridministry.xyz/034
//YOUTUBE
https://www.hybridministry.xyz/035
//TIKTOK
https://www.hybridministry.xyz/036
//FACEBOOK
https://www.hybridministry.xyz/037
//INSTAGRAM
https://www.hybridministry.xyz/038
//EMAIL, TEXT & WEBSITE
https://www.hybridministry.xyz/039

COMPLETE YOUTUBE PLAYLIST
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YCREabCjGg&list=PLngXlSr64YaIbzg_DNJrTrCtBHQnxcOVo&index=1

NUCLEUS WEBSITE BUILDER:
https://www.nucleus.church

TIMECODES
00:00-02:24 Intro
02:24-06:08 Becoming All Things to All People on Social and Digital Media
06:08-08:36 Step #1: A Good Church Website
08:36-11:08 Step #1 after the Website: YouTube
11:08-17:53 The Full Weekly Social Media Strategy
17:53-20:10 Better Weekly Church Emails
20:10-21:59 Outro and Final Encouragements

TRANSCRIPT
Nick Clason (00:00):
Well, hello everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Hybrid Ministry Show. My name is Nick Clason. I am going to be your host. And in this episode we are taking the last, uh, several episodes where we talked through YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, email, text, website. And then we're gonna put it all together and hand you the perfect custom package social media plan for your church here in 2023. Excited to have you with us. As always, wanna let you know that every single episode we provide for you transcripts, you can head over to hybridministry.xyz for this episode. You'll go back slash 0 4 0 for episode 40. Also, we are on YouTube, so go ahead and click the subscribe button over on that. And finally, every little, uh, piece of content I pull out for these episodes, we also post those over on TikTok, so you can follow me, hit all those things up in the show notes and any other links and articles and relevant things that we're going to be talking about.

Nick Clason (01:10):
I will also drop in the podcast episode show notes. Again, you can find all of that, um, just in your podcast catcher or at hybrid ministry dot x y z. Additionally, in as always, you know the drill, it would be incredibly beneficial and helpful to us if you'd consider giving us a rating or a review, a like or a subscribe on YouTube. All in any of those things, help us just be found, just be seen and get this message of hybrid ministry out to the masses a and to the world. And so if that's something that you have the time or are willing or able to do, we would greatly, greatly appreciate it. And as a thank you, we want to offer you a 100% completely free ebook. The title of the ebook is, have I already Ruined My Church's TikTok account? How to Post a TikTok from Scratch, starting at the very beginning from A to Z.

Nick Clason (02:00):
You can head to the show notes for a link to the ebook as well. Um, and what will come along with that is when you sign up, you'll also get a bonus throw in of the social media checklist. Everything you need to do every time you post to every single social media platform. Once again, so glad that you're with us. Let's go ahead and dive in and put all of the last several episodes together. Well, everyone, if you are just diving in, you, what you're doing is you are catching us at the sixth episode of the sixth Part Church Social Media Framework for Churches in 2023. And what we've done is we've parsed through each individual's social media platform as well as spent some time on website, email, and text. And so really we had four, and then we had an additional three that we package into one episode that was in the most recent episode.

Nick Clason (02:50):
And then in this episode, we're gonna take all of those facets, all of those pieces, and we're going to put them all back together. So, uh, just as a reminder, all the way back at the very beginning of this episode in the trailer, um, I'll drop a link to those in the show notes. But we started with and talked about YouTube and if you've listened to any of these episodes or even just maybe a few of them, you are probably in the boat, probably one or two camps, one, wow, good information. Thank you. No way on the earth I would have time to do any of that. And I get it right, like it's a lot. It can feel overwhelming and definitely if you have none of it started starting and launching, some of these things will feel potentially overwhelming. The other camp is you're ready to take the hill.

Nick Clason (03:36):
You're like, let's go. I'm all in. I believe in this stuff. I think we do need to lean more into the hybrid space and reach more people where they are. And whatever the camp you're in, let me just remind you that one of the things we talked about in the very, very, very first episode is that the apostle Paul reminds us and says that he became all things to all people. And in that way, we're gonna do that. And I'm not saying that we're gonna bend to culture and go, you know, the wayward ways of the world, but we are going to find the places that our people are and we're going to intersect and enter into their life, um, with the places that they're finding themselves. And so a majority of people are spending time on phones, on social media, and, and, you know, this is how they are living their lives.

Nick Clason (04:22):
Like less and less people are sitting down, uh, to browse a computer to find information about churches, websites, whatever, whatnot. But what they are doing is they are navigating, scrolling and spending majority of time on social media. Now, every demographic is a little bit different. You know, gen Xers, boomers might be spending more time on Facebook where millennials might be spending more time on Instagram. Gen Z and Jen Alpha are finding themselves on things like TikTok can be real. The fact of the matter is like we have this unique moment in history and time on social media where all of the platforms are in an alignment of what they want, short form, vertical video based content. And this is how we can provide that, and we can put that together on a social media strategy for our churches. So before you give up, before you let go, this is the why behind the, what all these reasons is.

Nick Clason (05:19):
We wanna show up in some of the most meaningful places of people's lives. And not because we think that like, you know, someone stumbles across a short 32nd TikTok that they're gonna like repent and give their life to Christ. But we're building a rapport, we're building a relationship. We're showing up regularly in the places that they also are finding their time to show up. And that's what the Apostle Paul, that's what missionaries, that's what pastors would do. So how can we, how can you position yourself and leverage yourself as a church to show up in a spot where you can help build trust and build rapport with people so that yeah, one, you are building a relationship, eventually down the line, they do make a decision, make a commitment, and become a more committed and devoted follower of Christ. So step number one, the first thing that you're gonna want to do is you're gonna want to have a good church website.

Nick Clason (06:16):
Your website is sort of the backdrop and the, or the backstop you, if you will, of all of your social media platforms. For any of you who are baseball fans, you know that behind every, uh, catcher, um, there's a backstop. And so a pitcher throws and if the ball goes too far behind them, the ball gets stopped by what is called the backstop. And you can, you're gonna kinda want that as your website. It's also gonna sort of be your kind of home base. I'm very into baseball analogies this morning, apparently went to a baseball game last night. Uh, nonetheless, you want these things to sort of be your place where people can know, um, where they can always turn to. And so all of your social links should be able to go out from your websites as well as if you ever need to just embed a video or a resource or something like that, you need to have a website that is mobile friendly.

Nick Clason (07:08):
Um, and that is also, you know, probably, let's be honest, even mobile first one that feels familiar to people, one that looks like other, um, websites that they're spending their time on. And so if you don't have a website yet, odds are you probably do hone that in a little bit. Um, get that built out so that it's a little bit more user friendly. Um, and begin to think about how can you create even like blogs or resources or other additional pieces of content that can go with and supplement some of the other social media things that we are gonna be talking about. My all-time favorite website builder is from Nucleus. The guys up in Canada, pro Church tools, Brady Shearer and those guys. Phenomenal website builders. So easy. So user friendly and built four churches and four pastors. And you don't need a lot of like website information.

Nick Clason (07:59):
Know how knowledge to pull one of those off. So if you, um, are thinking about starting one or you're like a side ministry youth pastor and you have the go ahead from your senior pastor or communications team to build some sort of like additional website, this can be a great one. Stop shop. It also, excuse me, it also has podcast like functionality, sermon, um, upload places where you can link YouTube videos, all those types of things. So let your website kind of be your first stop, your first shop on, um, creating a backstop and creating a home base for everything else that we're about to talk about.

Nick Clason (08:38):
All right, so what about, uh, what, what's the first step then? All right, so the first step I would say and I would recommend is that we make it YouTube begin recording and putting up long form YouTube videos of your content, of your sermons from the weekend. And if you, um, did not go back and have not listened to the YouTube episode, uh, one of the things that I have been recommending, and one of the things that we have been doing in my own church in my own context is we don't have the framework and the infrastructure to like live stream our student ministry services. And so instead of, uh, buying cameras and hooking it up to the soundboard and just posting a video of me or anyone else on our team teaching, we are actually sitting down in front of a camera, much like I'm doing right now and just pre-filing our message, talk our message content that allows us to craft it and hone it specifically for YouTube, make it better YouTube length, create YouTube hooks.

Nick Clason (09:40):
I can do some post-production editing type stuff, but then that also gives me like video clips that I can use later, oh, excuse me, that I can use later on down the road in and for social media. And so starting with YouTube as your spot, the other reason why that's important is because as we go, we're going to incorporate and use TikTok, Instagram reels, Facebook reels, and YouTube shorts. We're going to use all of those things. And if we're posting little, little snippets of, of the sermon of the message at the end of it, you can just have a ender screen that says, watch the full video on YouTube. And so when you do post something that goes viral or, or is seen by more people than just those who are following you or your church, what you can do is you can be pushing them to a longer form piece of content.

Nick Clason (10:30):
It's pushing them down that funnel, you're building a relationship with them and maybe they see a few of your messages, 1, 2, 3, of just the little clips until finally they're like, maybe I do wanna hear this message. Maybe there is something interesting and enticing that's gonna want me to click and hear the full version of this message. And so that's why I recommend starting with YouTube, starting with filming your messages and getting them posted up there, PA pr, use all the YouTube practices, use good thumbnails, use good titling, put 'em in playlists, use SEO related things, and all of that information is available for you and to you. In the YouTube episode that we talked about, Facebook reels, Instagram reels, YouTube shorts, and TikTok, I would recommend posting anywhere from 10 to 15 pieces of short form content per week. That is on average two to three pieces of content per day when you're in the growth phase.

Nick Clason (11:28):
If you're not in a phase where you're looking to grow and get a lot of awareness and people seeing you, um, then you still wanna try and remain consistent and you can maybe back that down to just one per day. Um, but what I would recommend is that you can, like I said, use the clips from your YouTube teaching video pre-filed and put them on your TikTok and Instagram reels account. I would also then aim, uh, to use things like trending sounds, trending hashtags, uh, templates that you see in cap cut. You know, the more time that you spend on TikTok personally, you're gonna know these things. And if you're like, well, that's not me, that's okay. Um, I would, I would beg you and recommend that you reach out and find someone in your church who's Gen Z, who's younger or who's a teenager, um, and who might have some ideas of things that you could do.

Nick Clason (12:18):
But keep in mind that the trends, they are quick. I mean, I remember at one point, um, I bookmarked one on like a Thursday and I came back around on Monday and it wasn't a thing really anymore. So you kind of just gotta jump on it and post it when it's available and ready to do that. So don't miss out on those. Hop onto those. And some of those things are, are the things that are gonna help you get discovered the most by outside people because it's, it's a popular thing in the moment. And so TikTok is pushing those pieces of content and you'll know the ones that are trending when like you get on TikTok yourself or Instagram or whatever, and you see it 2, 3, 4, 5 times in like one sitting, one stint. You know, it, it's just one of those things that like, it just keeps recurring.

Nick Clason (13:03):
You're like, okay, how can I use this? And if you go back even before the six part church social media framework, we did an episode on YouTube trends. And one of the things that they found was that they said, uh, consumers, um, are looking for content creators who are going to post like mem ified content or they're going to make jokes about like certain things in pop culture or whatever. So that is a thing that is both culturally relevant and I think it also can work for your churches. And so if you are using, um, TikTok, any of those things, think of it less of like a mini sermon posting platform and more of like a meme, a funny account like that. That's really why people are getting on those apps. They're getting on those apps to be entertained. What about Instagram? So Instagram that everything I just said, that's your Instagram reels strategy, however, there's more to do on Instagram.

Nick Clason (14:00):
So, um, what I'll do is, um, and I laid this out in the Instagram, uh, podcast, but on on your feed, if you hired me and you're asking me to like, uh, consult your church, this is what I would propose. I would propose a me Monday, 10 memes, curate them all throughout the week and then post your 10 best memes in a carousel post. I would recommend a TikTok Tuesday where you post one of your tos also to the feed. I would do a Wednesday night recap of what's going on in your church. So maybe like a carousel post of all the ministries that are meeting that night. Uh, if not, like I'm a youth pastor, so our main kind of night is Wednesday anchors us. And so I would do, um, if I don't have the ability to do photos, I would just do like a recap post.

Nick Clason (14:45):
Um, on Thursday I would do some sort of like recap from your message. Uh, on the week on Friday I would do a photo dump of like, uh, a week in the life of my church. And then Saturday I would do either a sermon quote post or an invite back to church Sunday post. And if you don't wanna post Sunday, uh, then save that quote post for Sunday and do a, use the like Saturday invite to church post. There's a seven day posting strategy on your Instagram feed on stories. Uh, I would also focus on engaging heavily in your stories with your people. That's sort of the spot to kind of go back and forth and that's where your actual followers are going to be engaging and interacting with you. Um, and so you can take any of the other like Instagram real content that you've been posting that didn't also post to the theater that maybe didn't do as well.

Nick Clason (15:32):
And you can also share those to your, uh, Instagram stories. And then you can use things like slider tools, question tools, true or false tools, poll tools, uh, question stickers and engage with your audience in that way. And so you can use the content you're already using and just repurpose it and push it out for stories. Other fun story ideas beyond reels are things like you can do like hot takes, like hot take oatmeal, oatmeal, um, raisin cookies are the best cookie. And put a little slider thing with like the fire emoji. Are they gonna slide it all the way down cuz they don't agree or all the way up cuz they do agree. You can do, uh, sermon recap quizzes or um, like total recall things like, I love things where you watch, have 'em watch a little clip and then you ask 'em a question about the clip they just watched.

Nick Clason (16:19):
Uh, you can do things like polls, you can do things like games. Um, take any game that you would maybe play on like a screen in your room, uh, especially if you're like youth pastor and you can just adapt it to Instagram. You can also post prayer requests and ask people like, what's going on in your life? How can we be praying for you? Stories have a lot, a lot of potential to help engage with your people one-on-one. So what would I do on Facebook? So like we talked about back in the Facebook episode, you should have a page that's your place where you're gonna be able to start throwing money towards ads if that's something that you're interested in or that you want to do. But I would also have a private group where you can have people. Um, and that's where you can really segment things out.

Nick Clason (16:58):
So parents of students, parents of kids, members of your church. And that's really where I would just spend the majority of your time. And in there I would do a very minimal amount of things. I would, uh, send like a weekly email of some sort. And if you have a good website, you don't need to make your email announcement heavy. You can make your email one story plus one call to action and that's it. And then you can take that good story that's gonna have a little bit more of like a blogy type vibe and you can also post that in your Facebook group with like an image that relates to the email of what's going on. And then I'll just post like one or two other things like, um, share, you know, share, share a photo of your view right now, um, bible emoji quizzes, just fun, quick kind of hitter things that you can post in there.

Nick Clason (17:47):
But then just let the group do its thing. Let the people drive the remainder of the content. I would also recommend sending out an email and a great to do that is Tuesday, it's historically been one of the like email days. They've done all sorts of studies on it. So schedule an email to go out by Tuesday morning at 9:00 AM then that way your people are gonna get used to it in a rhythm of expecting an email from you at the same time. Uh, if your email center gives you the opportunity to schedule it, I would definitely recommend scheduling it. That way you can get a little bit ahead and you don't have to just be chasing your email every single week. Uh, I would also perhaps consider linking some of the current messages in your email or any of the other things you wanna do on social media, any of the things you're trying to do to lean into the hybridization, lean into it and send links to those things in email because what it's gonna do is gonna kind of help create this like circular funnel of like hitting those pieces of content more and more and multiple times.

Nick Clason (18:44):
And the same thing is true with texting. You can send out registration forms, you can send out reminders of things. All those can be linked directly to your website that you have built. Again, that's your backstop. And so now you have this all-inclusive plan from website with socials including YouTube and email and texting and all of that is sort of like your package. Listen to build anything from scratch, it takes work, takes effort, whatever platform you're on, it's gonna also just take consistency. So if it's, um, like in a group text, you can text out your TikTok link, you can stage announce your new YouTube channel, um, and emails. You can invite parents to Jo to jump into your Facebook groups, whatever the case may be. But use the different platforms to help cross promote as you're starting from scratch to help build that base, build that core of those people, um, subscribing and getting on things.

Nick Clason (19:36):
And then a couple different times a year, run a blitz, get it like a big deal of a thing going on. Like right now, for example, I'm gonna date this because this is gonna come out after, but during March Madness we've been doing like a, a serial bracket in our youth ministry where people are voting on serial matchups and um, we've been using our parent email to help push and promote, um, the serial things, you know, going on in our, our ministry. So those can kind of help balance both the in-person and the online. And that's where you really get to see and use that hybrid stuff. Reminder, do not forget that God has placed you strategically where he has placed you. And while all of that slew of things may seem overwhelming, don't forget two things. One, just take one step and two, that's why we have transcripts.

Nick Clason (20:29):
So you can go back and you can parse that out and you can take that a little bit slower. If you were listening at 1.5 or two times speed, go back to the transcript and lay some of those things out. What is your next step if you're, if you've got nothing going, get a website Bill. If you got a website, then go ahead and get a YouTube channel you're not posting regularly. Start pre-filing your content, you know what I mean? Like, just take it one bite, one step at a time. You don't have to have it all done tomorrow. This is just my proposed and my recommended church YouTube strategy. And I think more, what I would say of all things is that at some point churches are gonna have to realize that social media is more than just a side gig or a volunteer role.

Nick Clason (21:12):
It is a full-time effort for somebody to pay attention to, to watch the analytics, to know what's going on. And so good luck to you as you navigate this, as you embrace it. We are always here. Please don't ever hesitate to reach out hybrid ministry.xyz for questions, for comments, for concerns, or follow us on YouTube or TikTok to hit us up in the dm, shoot us a message. However we can help. We wanna remind you that we are here, we want to give you guidance, point you in the right direction, but blessings on you, blessings on your ministry. And as always, never forget to stay hybrid.

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT: http://www.hybridministry.xyz/037
YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9pjecCnd8FVFCenWharf2g
TIKTOK: https://www.tiktok.com/@clasonnick
FREE EBOOK: https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/ebook

SHOWNOTES
How to Run a Successful Ad: https://www.hybridministry.xyz/009

TIMECODES
00:00-03:35 Introduction
03:35-09:00 Facebook.. Does Gen Z care about Facebook?
09:00-15:11 The History of Facebook and what it is today
15:11-18:36 Reason 1) Create a Facebook Page
18:36-20:59 Reason 2) Link your Facebook & Instagram Accounts
20:59-24:00 Reason 3) Create a Facebook Group
24:00-25:55 Outro

TRANSCRIPT
Nick Clason (00:02):
Well, hello everybody. Welcome back to another episode in addition of the hybrid ministry show. My name is Nick Clason. I, as always, I'm your host, excited to be with you. And in this episode, we are going to be diving into our third platform that you should be focused on as a church in building out the six step framework for social media or churches in 2023. Now, this one, um, is gonna be a little bit of a zig or a zag because my guess is if you, uh, know me, you know my story. I am a youth pastor and so I'm gonna be, I do this a lot from the realm of and um, position of being a youth pastor. And so this one you're gonna be like, wait a minute, what is he recommending before? What other one? Cuz you know, so far we've done YouTube and we've also done TikTok.

Nick Clason (01:01):
And so probably your assumption would be that we would be moving on to Instagram and if I were to rank platforms in the order of importance, it would go TikTok, YouTube, Instagram, and then Facebook. But today we are going to talk about Facebook and there's a few reasons why and we're gonna get to that. So make sure you stick around to the very end of the episode cuz we're gonna talk about the three primary reasons why you should start with Facebook as opposed to Instagram, especially if you're starting from scratch. And those three reasons are also relevant and prevalent. If you are already on both of those platforms. There's just gonna be some things and, uh, some technical, uh, linking things that you're gonna need and want to do that are gonna help you optimize your performance on both of those platforms, Instagram and Facebook.

Nick Clason (01:49):
All right, um, real quick, let's talk about, uh, before we dive in, you know, too much. I want to remind you, you can head over to our YouTube channel. If you are listening on a podcast, hit the link in the show notes and give us a subscribe there that would help us out tremendously. If you're discovering us and watching us on YouTube, hit the link in the show notes over to hybrid ministry.xyz. That is the homepage and home base for our podcast. And every single episode, including this one, which will have a link to the show notes, has a fully flushed out transcript. So you can go and you can grab the fully flushed out transcript for this episode and any of our past episodes as well as that's where you can get the free download called, have I already Ruined my Church's TikTok account?

Nick Clason (02:32):
And that is your complete guide to handing your phone to someone and say, Hey, post me a TikTok. And if they have no idea what they're doing, that will walk them through step by step. All of that is available, um, in our show notes. That's also available on our website. So give us a subscribe, give us a rating or a review, we would love it. And follow us in all the places. I personally, uh, am on TikTok and I am on YouTube and I'm trying to grow on both of those places to just the word out to help more people like you, church content communicators, church social media managers, youth pastors, part-time college students who got handed a phone from your pastor and said, Hey, we should probably be on social media. Yes, I am here to help you. And that is my entire goal is to help show you one of the ways that you can approach this in your church, in your life and in your ministry.

Nick Clason (03:24):
So without any further ado, let's hop into this episode of Facebook, the platform that Gen Z doesn't care about or do this. All right, so Facebook, does Gen Z care about Facebook? So there was an article back in 2015, um, by Pew Research that found that 71% of teenagers from the age 13 to 17 say that they used Facebook. And at that time they easily beat out platforms like Twitter, Instagram, and Snapchat. That's an encouraging number. And so for a lot of youth pastors, a lot of people working with Next generation, a lot of people doing social media, um, it kept the impetus and the importance of making Facebook a priority, making it something that you continually should be investing in. All right? However, back in 2022, which is not that long ago, from the drop of this, uh, podcast or the drop of this videos only a year or so ago, it tells us a different story.

Nick Clason (04:26):
So that number in 2015 was at 71%, but it has now dropped to that same age demographic. 13 to 17 year olds is now dropped to 32%. Then you might be thinking then like, why in the world are we making this a priority? Obviously it's tapering off with younger people, it's really only relevant for older generations. And while our church may have a good crop of people in older generation who are still using and active on Facebook, the reality is like that is dropping more and more. And that is true, and I will a hundred percent affirm you. And if you do decide that you don't want to take on Facebook as a platform, I totally get that. Um, especially if you wanna trend younger and be more relevant. Because the reality is this is like even Gen Z, or I'm sorry, gen X, uh, millennials, boomers, they use some of the other platforms that we're talking about here.

Nick Clason (05:16):
They're active on YouTube, some of them probably do have a TikTok account. And so if you want to abandon Facebook altogether, you can. The thing is, reality is probably you as a church, you probably already have a Facebook account. It's already probably been established and it's probably been active for years. And so what do you do and how do in this, you know, ever shifting landscape, do you continue to even use and reinvest in Facebook? I do think that there's a spot for it. I do think that there are some pertinent things that are worth you understanding and noticing. Um, and I'm gonna talk about those and especially in the very final episode of this six step kind of framework, we're gonna, um, put all of these platforms back together, right? And we're gonna gonna say here with all these different platforms, all these different like things we talked about, what is a full fledged church social media framework and strategy, taking all these pieces and putting 'em together.

Nick Clason (06:09):
So you're gonna see where Facebook fits into that. Um, but the answer to this is why we think we should continue to, um, participate in Facebook. The answer is twofold. So part number one, like we said in the last episode about TikTok, if you only have time to invest in one, invest in TikTok, I say that primarily for younger ministries, youth pastors, but quite honestly, uh, I think I would still say that the purpose for that is, uh, true, uh, for even like a church, not just a youth ministry like church, trying to reach people for their, you know, their community, their town, whatever. Like nothing wrong with just investing in TikTok. Uh, and a lot of the things today that we're gonna talk about are gonna feel like a lot of groundwork. And so that might be boring and you might not yield as many returns on it.

Nick Clason (06:52):
And so you're probably gonna have to spend a day or a week slow out some of these things, figuring out some of the things. Um, however, if you do wanna build out a fully robust holistic social media strategy, like I said, we're gonna put that together in the final episode of this little mini-series that we're doing. Facebook needs to be a part of it, not necessarily for the reasons that you might think. However, I will caveat this and say in the ranking of importance for Gen Z and Gen Alpha, Facebook is very last on my list for the specific platforms to invest in, right? Like I've, I've said, okay, however, your usage on Facebook on meta is gonna be for three primary reasons. And starting with Facebook's GI gives you an easier road, uh, to launch some other social media or, and this part's important or marketing endeavors that you may be interested in or your church or your pastor or your executive pastor might be interested in you carrying out, overseeing and executing.

Nick Clason (07:48):
All right? And so we're gonna look at this as more of a, um, foundation building as opposed to like a v going viral and, and drumming up a lot of interest and reaching a lot of people. Okay? So be that as it may, Facebook still plays a pretty crucial and important role. Before we go too much further, I do wanna share one last stat with you. 32% of users on Facebook are teenagers. That isn't a lot, but that also isn't nothing. And those teenagers are still users of Facebook. They may not be contributors, but they are as some social media people have dubbed lurkers, which means they are viewing what's going on on Facebook, and they will grow up and they will become, um, the age of the, uh, adults in your church. And in addition to that, a lot of families have parents who spend a lot of their time on Facebook.

Nick Clason (08:38):
And so if you're a demographic, if you're a church reaching families, you may not be reaching their teenagers, but you may be catering to and reaching their parents and there's um, uh, there is a benefit to doing that. All right, so let's dive into Facebook before the history of it and what it is now. Okay, Facebook before and now let's go back to the beginning. In the beginning, God created the heavens and the Earth. Okay, maybe not that far back. Let's go a little further. Okay, let's go to 2004. In 2004, you probably heard of a guy by the name of Mark Zuckerberg. Zuckerberg launched and started Facebook as a social media platform. He launched it in 2004 on Harvard University's campus. He was a sophomore, and his primary purpose there was to connect Harvard students to other Harvard students. And so back in the very original OG Facebook days, it was built primarily for college campuses so that you could see the faces of other college students, know their names, get to know them, but by the end of the year, the almost unimaginable had happened for Zuckerberg and over 1 million users, 1 million users were on Facebook, and the reach had then expanded beyond just his simple campus.

Nick Clason (09:55):
And the spread was like wildfire. And Facebook changed the game forever. Facebook is often thought to be one of the major contributors of ushering in the, uh, the, the, what am I looking for? The setting or the, the, the, gosh, why is this word so hard for me? I don't know what I'm trying to say, but ushering in the idea of Web 2.0. So Web 1.0 was just basic HTML website's, text on a screen, web 2.0 allowed the users to actually be contributing, formatting, crafting what was being said. We are now, by the way, in a world of Web 3.0 where users can create their own reality. Right now it's primarily through things like vr, but the algorithms which are less social graph and now more discovery based are helping you sort of find and create your own reality, which by the way, I think is a little bit dangerous, especially if you are a pastor and you are anchored in the truth of God's word.

Nick Clason (10:53):
However, as opposed to bucking that and saying that you need to just ca cast your phone into like a fire, um, and not look at TikTok, I think you need to help people steward that, that they've been given because now honestly, the reality is social media is not very social like it was back in the day. Uh, we've seen that Gen Z has watched millennials and Gen Xers use and, and lean into their community being all digital, and it has honestly yielded not very good results. So I honestly see a good pendulum shift in some of our Gen Z students and people that I interact with because they lean into more real authentic community. So why are they spending so much time on platforms like TikTok and YouTube? They're, they're, they're honestly there for entertainment more than they are for like social connection. And that's the thing, Facebook was built as a platform of social connection.

Nick Clason (11:43):
And so now it is a legacy platform and it's been around forever and it is still a major player and a major contributor in the game. However, they are having to, having to adjust to TikTok and YouTube have been ushering in, in these last several years that they've seen the younger generations adapt. And because Facebook knows that great Aunt Betty is going to eventually no longer be a user at some point because she's not going to be living on this planet of earth, they need to start catering to the younger generations if they want anyone to even adopt their platform. The reality is a lot of people are not huge fans of Facebook altogether, but whether they know it or not, they're using platforms under the Facebook umbrella. So all that being said, Facebook still remains the number one social media platform to this day based on, uh, based on number of users according to an article, which we will link in the show notes of backlinko backlink.io, I always get that one messed up.

Nick Clason (12:38):
Backlink io Facebook presently has 1.9 billion daily users, which is 6.89% increased year over year. In addition to the massive usage that is found and seen by Facebook users and contributors. Uh, Facebook has been acquiring more and more products, uh, over their lifetime and life cycle. Here are some of the products that they've acquired. You may be have heard of them, Instagram, WhatsApp, gfi, Oculus, and many more. In fact, if my counting and calculations are correct, Facebook has a total acquisition of over 88 different products, um, or companies or tech like focused things, okay? And the total cost of those acquisitions is estimated to be north of 23 billion with a B dollars. So I will link that, that article as well because honestly, uh, I didn't read all of them to you because you get really bored. There's really only like four or five that you probably actually recognize by name, WhatsApp, Instagram, Oculus gif, you the rest are like, what?

Nick Clason (13:46):
And they just absorbed these companies into them and, and stole their intellectual property, not stole, bought their intellectual property to use for their, their behalf and their betterment. Okay? And so as I was first, uh, sitting down to record this podcast and thinking about all this Facebook stuff, um, the reality is this, fast forward to October, 2021, Facebook announces this is the big shift here from Facebook back then to Facebook. Now, Facebook announces a change in their name from Facebook as the parent company to the name Meta. You probably know that if not, you've probably seen it and been unaware that that is, that is where that comes from. All right? And so the name reflects as the company says, um, the name reflects the company's growing ambitions to be relevant beyond just social media. They want to build technology that will help connect people. That's what they say their ultimate goal is.

Nick Clason (14:38):
Uh, I'll link that article in the show notes, but with the announcement of the name change from Facebook into Meta, this giant conglomerate of products that Meta has acquired over the years, it leads us specifically now to how you in your church can and probably should be using Facebook in your context here in 2023 as a part of the six step Church social medium framework. So without any further ado, let's hop in to reason number one, why you should be using Facebook. Reason number one, and the way in which you should be using Facebook in your church and in your ministry is to create a Facebook page. Now, Facebook page is the corporate side of Facebook. It is where businesses and corporations go to have their hours. It's where they link their website. It's, it's where they, at some point in time, we'll run ads and your church more than likely has a corporate company Facebook page.

Nick Clason (15:37):
I would recommend that you start with a Facebook page, not necessarily, because I think it's a great strategy for reaching people organically anymore in 2023. However, it is going to help sort of be the anchor for everything that you do on Facebook. And if you start there, especially if you don't have anything already launched right now, but if you start there, then sort of from there, the rest of everything else can kind of spread, which is one of the reasons why I have jumped Facebook over Instagram, for example, because Facebook is the owner of Instagram. And so if you start with that Facebook page, then you can sort of build things out from there. One of the things that you need to know about Facebook is it's not just a simple username and password sort of login. So if you're inheriting a Facebook page, what you need to do is you need to discover who the admin is on the Facebook page.

Nick Clason (16:24):
The person who has a personal specific profile, their first name and last name, they are an admin to an account. And that is who runs or who is kind of doing the Wizard of Oz behind the curtain, um, managing of Facebook pages. That's how Facebook works. So for example, I just moved to a church about six months ago. They had a a Facebook page, and everyone that I asked, I kept asking to try and get login information for it. They're like, oh yeah, the username password should be on this password document sheet that we have. And, and I just was like, no, that's, that's not how it works. Like, it's not just like I log into Facebook, I have to log in as myself, Nick Clason on my Facebook page, and then I have to be made an administrator or an admin or an editor or a moderator or whatever the case might be, whatever the role is that is decided that has to happen to me, my account, not a login into a specific place.

Nick Clason (17:20):
Okay? So when you start on this place, everything else can sort of be driven from that. The other reason that you would wanna start with a Facebook page is that some point you may want to run ads on your Facebook page. Um, and you may, you can do that either on Facebook, you also can do that through Facebook to your Instagram count if you find Instagram more beneficial to your audience. But you do that through the business suite, the meta suite. And so, um, learning to run an ad is probably one of the most maddening processes, especially if you have no idea what you're doing, what some of the language means or whatever if you're a complete nbe. And so one time I interviewed my friend, former co-host of this podcast, Matt Johnson. He is a marketing freaking guru, uh, and he has done some incredible things, marketing, especially in the ministry space, if you are or have ever heard of or are familiar with the company, dare to share.

Nick Clason (18:16):
He was behind a lot of what they did and a lot of what got them out, uh, visible to a lot of people out in the world. And so, um, he walks us through in a former episode, not link that in the show notes of how to step, how to set up an ad, step by step, uh, running a Facebook ad. So that's there for you. Hopefully that's helpful to you. All right? Step number two is beyond the Facebook page. You should also link your Facebook and Instagram accounts. This is probably one of the most obvious or low hanging fruit reasons why you should start with Facebook, because once you link them, then it's really no extra work, especially if you start on the Instagram side, which we'll get to that in the next episode. But if you start on the Instagram side posting something, all you do is simply toggle on a switch that says also post to Facebook, and boom, you're posting the same content in two places.

Nick Clason (19:08):
That used to be a no-no. That used to be something that you shied away from. But now it's actually something that I and many other church social media marketing managers encourage, especially with the current thing that every social media is focusing on short form video content. It doesn't matter if it's also posted on Instagram, on Facebook, I did a thing the other day, we do this stupid game on our, uh, Instagram, on our TikTok, on our YouTube shorts called, um, , it's called ABC Cheese. So we have a little craft singles and we try to bite like just two of us and try to bite out a letter. And the other person was trying to guess what it's, and so I just was like curious and I was like, how many views did this video in total get? And so I, I looked on YouTube, I looked on TikTok, I looked on Instagram reels, and I looked on Facebook reels, and in total we had somewhere between seven and 800 views on just that one stupid video alone by posting it to all those different platforms.

Nick Clason (20:05):
You know, like one had 600, one had a hundred, one had 300, one had 200, you know what I mean? That kind of all adds up. And you start to think about it, you're like, dang, that's like seven, eight, 9,000 hun. You know, thou not a thousand hundred, 900, a thousand people reach. Like it's a lot, man. Like that's, that's, that's something that churches, youth ministries would've been begging for in years past and before with Facebook pages, primarily as the marketing tool and engine, you had to pay to do it. And you, I mean, you still do if you wanna market stuff, but you can kind of like punch your lottery ticket with any of these reels or short form video and just blow up, or not even blow up, but just get a hundred views across four platforms that adds up to north of 500, north of 700, north of 900 views on any single video.

Nick Clason (20:56):
I think most people would say that that's worth it. All right? The third and final way and, and um, path that I think you should take on Facebook is create a Facebook group. According to a 2021 study, there were approximately 233 million Facebook users in the US alone. 18.2 of those users belong to the 18 to 24 age group, while 18% of those users are 35 to 34 years old. So in total, you're looking at, almost 40% of your users are between the age of 18 and 44. So while your teenagers, your youth ministry might not be spending a lot of time on Facebook, other platforms, um, other people, older demographics definitely are. And I think that you, one of your largest wins as a church is to create a group because that is where you can make community on social media feel intimate and in, in fact, it's probably one of the only platforms that offers a close sort of intimate community style feel.

Nick Clason (21:56):
And so I do think of all of the features that Facebook does have to offer. You can have a group. And so again, if you start with a page, then out of that you can create a group that's connected to that page and you can post as the page admin or you can switch your profile and you can be interacting as yourself in the group, and you can make that that switch. And they've started to make that a lot easier. If you go onto the page on your phone or on your browser, it'll give you a little notification in one of the corners somewhere that says you're interacting as the, the brand, you're interacting as the page or you're interacting as yourself. And then it just gives you a button there. Do you wanna switch? And you click switch and it switches over between yours or your page.

Nick Clason (22:37):
And so you can make some of those things. You also have the opportunity to go to the business suite and schedule some stuff. You can also link and schedule that over to your Instagram. And they now offer scheduling for reels. They offer scheduling for stories, which were not things that they offered previously. All the schedule tools really only posted like static images to pages, um, and your Instagram grid feed. But now they're starting to offer more. Uh, they do, in my personal experience, I've really only been experimenting with schedulers for a little bit here now, but they do seem to choke down your organic reach all of those platforms like it, when you post live time, there really is no way around that. No matter how much you try, no matter how, how much these like schedulers promised you, you're gonna just have better performance on all of your stuff if you are posting it.

Nick Clason (23:26):
Um, and that, but that's a value proposition that you have to weigh through, especially if you have a million other responsibilities. Is it worth it to peace of mind, have it scheduled and you don't have to worry about it? Or is it something that you should, you know, wade into and navigate choice is yours? It's kind up to you. Um, so one of the best things that can do though as a church is to run a Facebook group. And over time you don't even have to be supplying that with a lot of content. The content hopefully will be generated by the users that are already a part of your Facebook group community. Well, everyone, once again, thank you so much for hanging out for this entire episode. I hope that you found this episode helpful. Like I said, the Facebook, uh, episode's a lot more focused on nitty gritty groundwork, building up some stuff so that you can build up a more robust and full social media strategy.

Nick Clason (24:18):
We are going to be diving into that in the future episodes. But coming up next, we are finally moving on to Instagram. We're gonna talk about some strategies and some reasons behind how you can be using Instagram effectively as a church in your 2023 social media framework. In addition to that, before we, we get to the very final piece where we put it all together, we are gonna talk email and texting and website. And so those three things are also critically important, I think to sort of serve as a backdrop and or as a lead generator for some of these other social media platforms to your already existing church audience that you have access to through a database and Excel spreadsheet or whatever the case might be in your particular context. Again, excited to be with you and excited to be right here now on the downhill slide of our six part church miniseries on church social media in 2023.

Nick Clason (25:13):
If you found this episode helpful, do me a favor and please send it to a friend, share it, rate it, review it, all those things are incredibly helpful to me, and they're a free for you to just give back in a very small way to our podcast and the work that we've been doing here at Hybrid Ministry. You can also check out free transcripts that we provide for you for every single episode, and that's over http://www.hybridministry.xyz. Hit the show notes for all the articles that we mentioned for all the other, uh, episodes that we reference for all the other social media places that you can follow me. And until next time, and as always, stay hybrid.

SHOW NOTES
THE SHOW: https://www.hybridministry.xyz
YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/@clasonnick
TIKTOK: https://www.tiktok.com/@clasonnick

This also comes with a complete digital downloadable guide: https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/ebook
Or check out the complete YouTube Video on it: https://youtu.be/oxBn-p9O-eg
As always, every episode available with FREE transcripts at: http://www.hybridministry.xyz
And hang with Nick on TikTok at: https://www.tiktok.com/@clasonnick
FREE Checklist: https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/free-social-media-checklist

TIMECODES
TIMECODES
00:00-00:53 – Intro
00:53-03:11 - Why TikTok, Reels and Short Form Video?
03:11-03:47- - Logging Into TikTok for the First Time
03:47-05:56 - Video Menu Options
05:56-07:03 - Profile Menu Options
07:03-12:07 - Creating a Video
12:07-17:21 - Editing the Video
17:21-19:34 - Time to Post it!
19:34-20:46 - Make sure you do this ONE THING before posting to other platforms
20:46- - Outro

TRANSCRIPT
Nick Clason (00:01):
So have I already ruined my TikTok account? Here's a guide on how to post TikTok from start to finish. Hey everyone, my name is Nick Clason. I am the host of the Hybrid Ministry podcast, and this is a little special YouTube slash podcast episode I'm excited to bring to you on the framework for posting a TikTok in 2023. Now, there's a lot of things out there about like SEO and keywords and strategies and tips and hacks, and in fact, I actually have a checklist that I have pre created for all social media, just a basic like, uh, have you done this? Have you done that for posting to social media at your church? You can get the description or you can get the link for that in the description, the video down below, uh, or in the show notes, hybrid ministry.xyz. But why TikTok? Like why of all the platforms that we have, why TikTok?

Nick Clason (01:01):
And here's why. Every platform right now, Facebook, Instagram reels, YouTube shorts, they are all going after this short form video content. It's like lightning in a bottle. It's so easy to go viral. Um, and when I say easy, it's like you post the dumbest thing and it goes viral, but then you spend a lot of time and effort and energy on something that you think is amazing and it gets like 14 views. And so the reality is it's this very finicky, very like, hard to like land what is going to go viral, but when you see other social medias copying another social platform's kind of bread and butter, it's worth noting and it's worth, uh, going all in on. And so when every single major social platform is copying TikTok in their, uh, their, their for you sort of algorithm, you need to make that a priority.

Nick Clason (02:00):
It's, I would liken it to win Instagram stole stories from Snapchat, and now TikTok is actually stealing B reels, uh, post, now they call it the now feature in TikTok. So, uh, if you've never logged into TikTok, uh, or you have, and you know, you should, you've heard me talk about the importance of short form video, but you, you open it and it's overwhelming. You don't know what to do or you think you know what to do, but then you get kind of turned around editing videos or whatever and whatnot. This is meant to be a, uh, a thorough guide to every feature available in TikTok. Now, some caveats, I've really only been using TikTok for about three to six months now. Um, I too is just as much of a novice when I opened it. They're constantly evolving and changing, and I'm not even a hundred percent sure if I know all the features. I tried to comb through each and every feature as I was in preparation for this video, but there are several I haven't even used. And so

Nick Clason (02:59):
I just wanna be clear with that. Like, uh, I'm still at a very basic level, and so if, if I can do it, what we're doing in our church, you too can, can get up some very basic sort of content. So when you log into TikTok for the very first time, a video is probably going to start blaring at you at full volume. Okay? That can be a little bit disconcerting and throw you off. You're a rocker because most other platforms keep videos muted. TikTok for whatever reason is the opposite, so turn your volume all the way down, or if you just tap the screen, the video, whatever video they play, um, it'll pause it. Now, uh, if you're getting on TikTok for the first time and they're feeding you things that you don't wanna see, they're not, you're not interested in, hold that video down and just click, not interested.

Nick Clason (03:43):
Do that a few times and you're gonna teach the algorithm what you want to see. So when you, uh, are sitting there looking at a video, video that TikTok fed to you, you have, uh, several different video menu options. And so I want to, uh, run through what those are. The first one is you can, on the right hand side of your screen, you can follow the creator. Uh, that little plus sign right there will give you a, uh, follow, um, or not follow kind of option. Now, if you look at the very, very top of your screen, you're going to be looking at either following or for you, you're either in your following algorithm, all the people that you're following, or you're in your for U algorithm. TikTok will almost naturally bring you to the for U algorithm. So just be aware of that.

Nick Clason (04:34):
Even when you click follow the people, the videos that you're seeing may not be coming from followers. That's, again, that's one of the things that makes this algorithm unique. Um, you can, like the video, that's the heart. You can comment on it, you can save it. That's a little save, uh, little bookmark looking icon there. You can share it. That's the arrow out. You can send it to people within the TikTok app. You can, you can download the video and save it, or you can copy a link and send it. Uh, and then the bottom, uh, icon there, a little round one kinda looks like a, a record turning. That's the sound, that's the audio that is being used. Could be like an original audio from the creator, or it could be like a sound or a trend or something like that. All of that is to you.

Nick Clason (05:15):
On the right hand side of the screen at the bottom, you have five menu options. You have your home button and the subcategories for that, like I said, up at the top of the following. And the four you, then you have the, now that's TikTok, s b real copycat. It's almost identical to what Be Real is doing. Uh, you got the plus button there, then very dead center, that's your create button, okay? Then next you have your little envelope, that's your inbox. And for there you get your notifications, dms, likes, follows, et cetera. That's all the things that you, uh, when people interact with your content or your videos. And then finally, the last thing on the very right hand bottom corner, uh, is your profile. That's where you have your videos. Um, once you click on that, you'll see, uh, another kind of menu across the top.

Nick Clason (06:02):
Uh, the left most option is your videos, everything that you've posted kind of on your grid. The next one are your private videos. The next one are your saved videos. Remember that bookmark icon. And personally, I like to use that as a way to save ideas. So if I'm going through TikTok and there's a sound or an idea that I think is fun or interesting that I can use later, I'll save it. That's then where I'll find it. And what I'll personally do is I'll save that on my personal account, and then I will share that video to my ministry account. Then I will switch accounts, log over into my ministry account, go into my dms, and get that video from myself, and then I'll use that, um, either that sound or that idea or that trend or whatever I need from that video, maybe a filter, whatever that I'll use to them post.

Nick Clason (06:46):
Um, moving on on that menu, you got your liked videos. And then finally, um, there at the top, you can edit your profile, your link, all the other necessary and pertinent information there. Okay. Now, how do you, that's just simply viewing a video and kind of navigating through your basic menu items. So how do you then create a video? So the way to create a video is on your home screen. You can tap that plus button, all right? And once you tap that plus button, you're given several options. All right? At the very, very top center, uh, there's the option to add sound. You can add a sound that way by clicking it and searching for a sound. Or like I said, when you see that record player on a video, you can click on that. Um, and once you're, once you click on that, there will be a, it'll pull up all the videos, uh, that have used that sound.

Nick Clason (07:37):
You can click use this sound option. That is personally, I think the easiest way to do that. That's why I like to save those videos and then share them so I don't have to go and try and find those sounds. Again, that's my way of kind of archiving and remembering where those sounds are. Now one thing worth noting, if you're on a personal account, you can use any sound you want. If you are a business account, those are much more limiting. There are ways around it, um, like recording the video and then in post-production in like Adobe Premier Pro or something like that, dubbing that sound over. Then when you post it, it's gonna be technically an original sound. It's not gonna come from the trend sound. Uh, there are pros and cons. Uh, I've talked about this in past podcast episodes. There are pros and cons to, um, personal and business accounts.

Nick Clason (08:23):
Uh, you just gotta choose what matters most to you. I think probably the biggest downside of not doing a business account is your link and bio isn't really a link. It's just typed out and people have to like, then go type it into a browser so they can't click and go to your stuff. That's a pretty big downside, and you don't get as many analytics. Um, you still can see views and likes and those types of things by going to each individual video, but you're not able to see trends. And so once things start getting going for you, you probably do wanna swap over to a business account. Just know that it's gonna limit the sounds that you are able to use as a business account on your TikTok platform. All right, so you've clicked to create video. At the bottom of your screen, you're gonna have this big red record button that is gonna probably feel very familiar to you.

Nick Clason (09:09):
It's gonna look like a camera phone or something like that. Right above that, that red button you have the, you have a thing that says 15 s. That's for 15 seconds to the left of that. If you slide 30, uh, or 60 s I'm sorry, and then slide again, you have three m three minutes, okay? Uh, you can shave the time down after you record. So if you don't know how long it's gonna be and you just want to go the three minutes, then if you don't take that full time, it's not gonna post the full three minutes like black at the end of your video, right? So, uh, just know that going into it, if you're using a sound, like if a sound, you click use sound and it's already loaded at the top of your video there. When you click 15 s or 60 s, um, you switch to that often right below it, it'll say, this sound will only allow you to record for a maximum of seven seconds or something like that.

Nick Clason (09:59):
All right? And so then, you know, oh, I can just stick with the 15 seconds and I don't need all the other stuff. Right? Okay. So, um, to the left of the record button are, is your effects menu. So there, that's where you're gonna get like your green screen, or right now there's a delay mirror effect that's kind of trending on TikTok that's there. Um, things that like rotate through on your head that my TikTok account personally, like I do this thing for football and all the NFL teams rotate through. I have so many views on those, it's ridiculous, but that's what's helping kind of grow my audience. Um, that's where you're gonna get those types of effects. To the right of that is your upload button, okay? That's where you would upload a previously recorded video or photo from your phone, from your camera roll that you already shot outside of the TikTok app, for example.

Nick Clason (10:46):
Um, and so then at the top right you have, uh, the flip button that's just simply to flip your camera forward facing, rear facing beneath that you have, uh, your speed. So you have different speeds, 0.3 x 0.5 x one x, two x, and three x, uh, for recording speeds. Uh, below that you have the retouch option, full disclosure, and never used that thing. It's kinda like a filter thing. Beneath it, you have another filter option. This one I think is more about image, less about the specifics of like a retouch sort of thing. Beneath that, you have your timer. That's where you can like set your phone down and give it like a three second head start, so you can walk away from it and do a dance or whatever the case might be. Um, you have a three second, ten second option. When you do that.

Nick Clason (11:29):
Beneath that you have your q and a option. That's where sometimes you'll see a person's comment on the screen and you can reply with video to the comment. All right? So once you're ready to record, those are all your menu options. Now that we're ready to record, tap that record button. When you wanna start, and when you wanna stop immediately to the right of the button, you have two menu options that are now available. After recording, you have delete, it looks like, kind of like a backspace button. If you want to delete what you recorded, start over, try again. You can do that. There. You also have a red check mark. Um, and that's where you then accept the video. And now you move on into the next sort of editing phase of the, the video. Now, your new menu, once you're into the editing phase, in the top middle of the section, you have your sound.

Nick Clason (12:15):
If you haven't added a sound yet, that's where you can add a sound. Um, if you've already recorded a sound, a video with the sound, that's where you could delete that sound if you no longer want that sound mm-hmm. on the right hand side of the screen, um, you have, you are at the very top. You have your text on screen option, that's where you click that and you can type that out, um, on your left. Then you now have three different menu options, um, from your, from your text editor, right? You have the square with the A around it. If you, if you select that, that will add a border to the text on the screen. So it might be easier to read if you select it. Again, that will put a full background on that. And if you select it, again, it'll add a background, but now it's transparent and if you select it again, it'll go back to your original without any of those effects on it.

Nick Clason (13:04):
Then to the right of that, you have your paragraph alignment, you have center, then left alignment, then right alignment. And then to the right of that, you have your person with a speech. That's where you often get that voiceover effect. That says, um, that, that's used as a hook. A lot of times on videos, uh, if you choose that, it will make that, um, text on screen. It will turn it into, uh, a voiceover. And there, once you select that, you'll be given, uh, different options, different types of sounds to play around with. Um, once you select that, the menus you have are recommended motion creative vocals. Those are categories for the types of sounds, and then sub options within those. Okay? To determine what your text, uh, looks like, um, you have the classic option. You have the typewriter option, the handwriting option, neon option, and the CIF option.

Nick Clason (13:57):
And those. So you got your, your a, your paragraph, your speech, and then to the right of that, that's where you get your text, um, looking options. Okay? And then from there you can select colors and they do swipe from right to left so that you can pick which color you want on, on, on screen there. All right. So when you're done, select, done, pretty self-explanatory. The last thing that you can do then is once that, uh, text is now on the screen, if you select it, it'll pop up three menu options. All right? So you can, uh, text to speech, you can add that feature, or if you already did it, that's where you can change, uh, the voice or whatever the case may be. You can set the duration. How long does that text remain on screen? That's where like if, uh, at a certain sound effect or element or whatever, something pops up, uh, you would drag, you would drag the text to start there or to stop there.

Nick Clason (14:49):
Okay? And then the last thing thing is to edit, to actually like rewrite or, you know, you had a typo to go in there and change that. All right, moving on down beyond the text, you have your sticker options. That's things like your mentions, hashtags, you can add polls, support nonprofit, add a location, ask a question, reply the date, the time, all kinds of things. If you're familiar with Instagram Stories editor, it's very similar to the sticker options that you see on Instagram Stories. I've actually never even seen that menu option until I went to prepare for this video and I was like, oh, I didn't know all this stuff was on here. Um, beneath that, you have effects, okay? And so across the top, once you click effects, you have your trending effects, then you got visual motion effects, transitions, and, uh, split options.

Nick Clason (15:31):
So you can kind of explore different effects, things to add to your video and what, whatever, and whatnot. Right there, beneath that, you have your filters. It's just gonna change the look, feel your video. Beneath that, you have studio, that's where you're actually editing, cutting your video, okay? So if you wanna do something to edit the video, click on the video. It's gonna give you a video bar and a sound bar. If, if you have, uh, like just the, the audio from the video that you recorded, they'll be together. If you have a audio, like a song, those are gonna be two kind of separate things, okay? So if you click on your, your top option, your video option, once you do that, a little menu option down beneath will, will pop up. So you have split, you can change the speed, you can adjust the volume, you can rotate it, and ultimately you can delete it.

Nick Clason (16:20):
Uh, split is a great way. If you have like one big, long thing, um, and you're trying to do a little cuts, you drag to the spot, you split it, and then you delete the rest of the video, then you may add in another video that, that same video, probably do another cut, split delete on the front, delete it on the backside. I hope that makes sense. Um, so then to the right of your video bar option, right? You can click full screen and then there's a plus button, and that's where you can then add that video. Like I was just talking about. If you select the audio, you got your video bar, your, your audio bar, if you select audio, you can add your audio option. Once it's added, you can either replace the sound, adjust the volume, or choose to delete it. You save at the top right and you cancel at the top left.

Nick Clason (17:05):
Moving back out to our editor, um, beneath that you have your captions option A recommend a caption for almost any talking head video on TikTok. That's how, uh, SEO and search is gonna find certain topics. Beneath that, you have your Noise reducer, then your audio effects, and then finally your privacy settings. So once you're done there at the bottom, you then have two options. Bottom of your, your screen on the left, you have the stories option. And then to the right of that, you'll have your next option. Next is where you go to kind of tap to get to your final step before you actually post it. Okay? And so, um, there is where you would type in your caption, different from your captions on screen, right? But your caption of your actual video, the one that kind of like floats up, and then the likes and stuff stuff, follow it.

Nick Clason (17:50):
Um, you would also include your hashtags there. And then to the right of your, uh, caption box is where you would select your cover. If you click on that, you can drag your finger to a certain part of the video. You can also add title and text on top of it. Um, the, the title and text, it should be noted that those don't show up when someone's swiping through and just finding your video, those are mostly seen when someone lands on your profile and you want them to know what the video is. Okay? So those, those could be helpful. Also, if you do have onscreen things different from your, your text option, your title, text options there, like I showed you, um, those will also show, um, if someone land on your profile, they'll just be in a different type of format than, than TikTok has to offer.

Nick Clason (18:36):
Um, if they're, uh, like I said, if they're scrolling past, so they won't display on that screen. Also, there you can tag people, you can add a location, you can add links, and here's what it's available on the links. You have books, minigame Alpha by Titan Breathwork, Buzzfeed Quizzes, Contra Profile, disco Loco, 3d, I R L List with Two Eyes, Quizlet, rotten Tomatoes, stat Muse, and Whisk. Um, never use any of those. So you can check those out. You can then choose, um, who can watch the video, allow comments, allow to, uh, allow, allow Stitch, allow high quality, upload more options, save to device. If you click on the more options, save to device, which I just finally turned off by the way, I couldn't figure out where to get that. That's where you get that. You can select your caption language, um, branded content and ads, and then there's an automatically shared to IG or text ig, ig stories, Snapchat.

Nick Clason (19:30):
And then the last thing is, um, you can either put it in drafts or you can post it. Last thing I'd recommend, if you are uploading this to other places, um, once you upload it, click uh, go back into your profile, click on the three ellipses option, um, click copy link, and then go to your browser on your phone or on your computer, and type in to Google save TikTok without video watermark or save TikTok video without watermark. If you copy and paste that link into there, it will then download you an option from TikTok without the TikTok watermark all over it. Then you can take that same video and you can post it to Instagram, Facebook, YouTube shorts. Um, one thing I've noticed personally, just very anecdotally, is that every time I would post a TikTok, um, and then Instagram with the watermark, Instagram would give me almost no views once I started removing that. Um, we, we've had videos go, you know, 20,000, 30,000, 40,000 views because we removed the watermark. Um, I think that the two are kind of competing against each other. Instagram wants to use them, TikTok wants you to use them, so just confuse them and think that they're both being used even though you, you are using both of them. And, uh, they, they just aren't seeing that. Um, and that's just algorithm and kind of AI

Nick Clason (20:46):
Stuff. All right, so, hey, thank you so much for hanging out and getting that guide if, uh, or getting this guide on how to, how to post TikTok, um, on your account. Listen, if you found this helpful, like subscribe, share, rate, review, all the things, check us out, hybridministry.xyz and check out the description for, um, not only the, the social media checklist, but also the checklist on this, um, the written form of this video on how to post a TikTok, download that, put it on your desk, put it above your, your computer so that when you're posting, you have it as a reference. And until next time, we'll talk to you later.

Full episodes and transcripts available at http://www.hybridministry.xyz
Come hang with Nick on TikTok http://www.tiktok.com/users/@clasonnick
Or subscribe on YouTube for his new e-book coming out soon! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9pjecCnd8FVFCenWharf2g

SHOWNOTES
Follow Rob on TikTok at https://www.tiktok.com/@robshep

TRANSCRIPT
Nick Clason (00:00):
What is up everybody? Welcome to another episode of the Hybrid Ministry podcast. I am your host, Nick Clason. Excited to be along here with you and I'm excited today to bring you a guest. And so, um, this, this is Rob Shepherd. Um, he is pastor at Next Level Church out in Virginia. And, uh, Rob and I connected, you'll hear a little bit about how we connected, uh, but we connected cause uh, we have a mutual, um, friend, coworker. I mean, it's his sister, um, who, uh, I worked with his sister at a church I worked at in Ohio. And, um, we came together through just like some circumstances of, uh, doing a thing for his nephew. Um, a kid that was in my, uh, student ministry for a while. So, um, we met and just kind of became friends on Facebook or whatever. And then recently connected, um, more on TikTok.

Nick Clason (00:56):
I saw just a bunch of what he was doing on TikTok and, uh, kind of got onto his account. And, uh, I told him last week, Hey, I am stealing all of your ideas, uh, for our student ministry account because we needed a little bit of a refresh, um, in our posting, uh, rhythm, I would say. Uh, we had, we had done this thing where we were all kind of in charge of a segment of our, our TikTok posting calendar. Uh, but my, my coworkers were just having a hard time staying up with it. They weren't and aren't as, uh, TikTok and, you know, creating of TikTok savvy. Um, they just didn't do it as often as I did. And so, uh, posting would take them longer and they would avoid doing it cuz they didn't want to do it. Um, and it would take 'em longer than they wanted to, all these things.

Nick Clason (01:46):
So, uh, I started seeing Rob's videos and he had tons of fun stuff with just his kids and little games and competitions, a minute to win at stuff. And, um, so I went to his profile. I stole a bunch of his ideas. We started doing a lot of his things and then I just reached out to him. I was like, bro, you should come on my podcast. And he's like, I would love to. So I'm excited to bring you this interview with Rob. Excited for you guys to get to meet, uh, him. He personally has a TikTok account that's really active. He has a lot of followers, a lot of viewers, a lot of action, a lot of traction. So if there's a new for you, um, he has a kind of a wealth of knowledge on what it takes to, uh, run, manage, and grow a TikTok account. So, without any further ado, here is my interview with Rob Shepherd. Hey Rob. How's it going?

Rob Shepherd (02:37):
Awesome, man. Thanks so much for having me. I'm honored.

Nick Clason (02:39):
Absolutely. Hey, give uh, all tens and tens of my listeners. Just a quick, uh, overview who you are, where you are, uh, to what you're up

Rob Shepherd (02:48):
So. Yeah, I'm, I'm Rob Shepherd. I'm the lead pastor at Next Level Church. It's a church plant that I started 10 years ago. Um, I'm an author. I've written three books. My fourth book will be coming out in 2023. I have a wife, Monica, we've been married for 22 years and we have twins. They're 11 and they're in the sixth grade.

Nick Clason (03:06):
Awesome. So, uh, you and I connected cause uh, uh, your nephew was in my youth ministry in Ohio. Yeah. Um, and we did this super fun thing that I preached about and then your sister actually took me up on where, uh, a bunch of different people kind of invested in, in his life. And so we had this kind of culminating moment, uh, and that's where, that's where you and I met and I think we became friends on Facebook or something like that. And so I, I get on TikTok, um, when I moved here to Texas because I, before that I was just using my ministry TikTok account. Sure, sure. And I figured like, oh, I should probably make my own since I can't keep using my old ministry's algorithm anymore. Um, and you know, of course TikTok does that thing where it's like, you might know this person. Yeah. And so that's, that's how I, uh, you know, found you on there through that, through some linked contact thing, which I keep telling them not to do that yet

Rob Shepherd (04:01):
Somehow. Yeah, me too.

Nick Clason (04:02):
Here we are.

Rob Shepherd (04:03):
Yeah, it's so weird.

Nick Clason (04:05):
It's sketchy or something. I don't know. That's how they're, they're learning all of our information. They're gonna take over our world

Rob Shepherd (04:10):
A hundred

Nick Clason (04:11):
Percent, but that's fine. It's okay. It's okay. Um, and so, actually, you know, Rob, I just started watching your videos cuz so much fun. Oh,

Rob Shepherd (04:21):
Thank

Nick Clason (04:21):
You. Um, yeah. And, and then of course as a youth pastor, I was like, I'm gonna steal all of these ideas, . Um, and we did, but, uh, tell me just a little bit, how did you end up on like, TikTok? Was it like just for fun or are you doing it for like, ministry reasons, purposes to get your author like information out there? Like what's your, what was kind of your reasoning behind all that?

Rob Shepherd (04:45):
Yeah, so a hundred percent it was 2020. The whole world shuts down . Um, and like I have more time on my hands than than normal. Um, cuz we're not having public services. We can't be in the office. Um, like literally everything is shut down. Yep. And I kept seeing people post TikTok on Facebook and Instagram and I was like, what is this? Like, I don't get it. Like, how do they know these dances? And like, , how, like, what I don't, I don't understand. Like, it, this app doesn't make any sense to me. So I downloaded it out of boredom. Okay. And the first, I mean, the first few times looking at it, I was like, this is a, this is an app for 12 year olds. Like, I'm not, you know, there's no way. Like, yeah, I'm just not interested. But then, you know, there was like a couple nights where I couldn't sleep or whatever, and I would just like, let me see this TikTok thing and, and I would get sucked in.

Rob Shepherd (05:39):
And then you start watching videos and you're like, why is it two in the morning? Like, yeah. What is happening here? Um, and so after about a week of just kind of stalking and watching videos, I was like, you know what? This looks like some fun. And so 2020 was stressful for a lot, lot of people. Mm-hmm. , um, as a lead pastor, navigating, shutting down church when to reopen, um, it was very stressful for me mm-hmm. . And so starting to make these videos was a creative outlet. So I just started making, um, literally just to have fun. Just something to get my mind off of the stress. And then one thing led to another and we got a couple followers and that's what happened.

Nick Clason (06:19):
And there we are. Yeah. So that's your, like, that's like your personal, like that was something that you just kind of did for fun. Yeah. Have you dove into it, uh, at like a ministry or church-wide level yet? Or is it mostly just something you're doing on your own?

Rob Shepherd (06:33):
Yeah, so, um, TikTok is interesting to me because if, if you start it like, like your youth group's, TikTok, you can gain a following because people that are gonna follow you are probably other youth pastors or churches or they're interested in it. Mm-hmm. , because I started, um, doing just silly like games and, and that kind of stuff. My out of, you know, my 157,000 followers, they don't give a rip about what I do. Right. Um, anytime I post personal things, videos, tank mm-hmm. and no one's like, oh, you know, um, there's a few times in lives, like any, anytime I go live, I I'll tell people, Hey, I am a pastor and um, you know, and you don't have to be a Christian to follow me, but, um, and you know, there'll be some people who will say, oh wow, that's interesting that you're a pastor. But like, I've posted about my books before. Nobody cares. Yeah. Um, posted about our church, nobody cares cuz I didn't start it as that ministry, the ones that have success on it. Start it with like, the intent of I'm gonna start it for ministry or, you know, books, selling books or, or whatever.

Nick Clason (07:38):
Yeah. Absolutely. Um, I, I, yeah, I've even noticed that too, you know, with my own, like, it's, the thing that the algorithm has done is like TikTok has absolutely changed the game on social media, right? Mm-hmm. , so like before a church would have a page or an Instagram account or whatever, and then they'd tell their, their church people come follow us. And then we would all just post announcements about like our church potluck and Yeah. Doing things like that. And now TikTok and subsequently reels on Instagram and Facebook, YouTube shorts, like they're all about just like discovering people that you've never discovered before. Yeah. Like, you know that on your homepage there's the following and the four uab and like I'm never in the following.

Rob Shepherd (08:25):
Yep. It

Nick Clason (08:26):
Only puts me there after I post a video and then I'm like, these are a lot of people I know. And then I'm like, oh, that's cuz I'm in the following section. And they just did that to me. Yeah. So it's, it's such a different, and so from a like a ministry standpoint, it's such a different mindset of like, what are we doing on here? Sure. And like, who are we trying to serve in a lot of ways. Sure. It'ss almost like a, it's less of like nurturing your own people and more of like trying to reach people, you know? Yeah. And is there merit to it? I don't know. It's so, so new. Yeah. And that's the thing. Sure. So

Rob Shepherd (08:57):
Yeah. I I think, oh, go ahead. Do you have a question? Nope. I don't wanna interrupt you. Go ahead. Yeah, I, I think to that point, um, so, you know, in Jesus' day and age, the gathering point would've been like a well mm-hmm. and it's where the people went mm-hmm. . And so we see at times Jesus would go to where the people are. He would go to the well, like, you wanna go and gather an audience. Well, for a lot of a long time the church has acted like our building is a well, but no one in the community is coming to our, well no one has. That's

Nick Clason (09:27):
Good. Yeah.

Rob Shepherd (09:27):
But where is everybody? They're at the well called TikTok. Mm-hmm. There's over a billion people on TikTok. Mm-hmm. Over a billion. Mm-hmm. Um, and so, you know, I've had some success on social media, on, you know, Facebook or Instagram, but nothing like TikTok. Um, you have the greatest chance to reach people now. It's a lot of hard work. It's not a guarantee that you'll reach people, but you have a greater chance to reach people and influence people and be around them. And so my TikTok is not explicitly like, I'm not a Christian TikTok, um, but I will subtly try to, you know, I'll wear a a a t-shirt that says, you know, a Christian message on it or, um, you know, I'll try to highlight in kind of a subtle way to say like, I've got all these thousands of people watching, um, let me try to gain influence. It's a long game. It's, it's slow. It's, you know, it's not a, a quick, you know, thing, but that's where people are. So I wanna gather around them and try to gain influence with them.

Nick Clason (10:20):
Yeah, absolutely. Like I, and like I said, it's, you know, how, so someone's scrolling through, they stop on your video and then the next one they're onto some like, stupid trend or stupid dance. So yeah, I think there's the pushback, you know, from other people is gonna be like, well, are you really making a difference? Or, you know, whatever. Like, is that 32nd clip enough to like influence and change someone's life? And like I said earlier, I don't know, um, sure. But what I do know is that the, a the landscape of social media is changing. B the landscape of our culture post covid, gen Z and the digital mindset is completely shifting. So this is the, the direction everyone's headed. And I'm sure there'll be some adjustments and pivots along the way. But for the first time in like social media history, every major platform is all in on this style of video. And I think the unique position that churches find themselves in is that, uh, this actually lends itself very well to what pastors, speakers, church people do on a regular basis. We create and produce content on a weekly basis. So for the first time we can take snippets of what we're doing and re-broadcast it. And also for the first time we can do that basically across the four major platforms without any consequence. Cuz they're all sure they're all going all in on this, you know? Sure,

Rob Shepherd (11:40):
Sure.

Nick Clason (11:41):
So the thing, like, the thing that stood out to me about you, uh, was like just the amount of fun that you have on it. Right. And I think a lot of times in this conversation, it depends where you land, right. But especially if you're like a church trying to like do digital ministry, you feel this need and this pressure to like share this deep theological truth, um, on TikTok. And if you don't get millions and millions of views, like you're, you, you didn't do it. It wasn't sure. Beneficial, advantageous. Um, so what, like, what predicated for you? Just like going all in on like, just the jokes, the fun stuff, the games, the competitions. Like I just love watching your family, like just having a blast together. Yeah. You know, doing things.

Rob Shepherd (12:24):
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I, for us it was just really natural. It was, um, we like filming these type of things. Um, we, we like doing, uh, coming from a youth ministry background there, a lot of the stuff that I do is recycle games that I used to play with, you know, my students and Yeah. Now my, my kids are, you know, 11 years old, sixth grade. And so, uh, we recycle, uh, uh, a lot of that. But I will say bigger picture for me is that there are a lot of church circles where it, it, it is almost like, uh, it's almost like God doesn't have a sense of humor. Like Yeah. Everything has to be serious. And, and I think there is a seriousness and there is a, a reverence that we should have towards God. But if you read through the scriptures, there's, there's whole festivals that God told people to have.

Rob Shepherd (13:15):
Mm-hmm. And in our culture, we have lost, uh, no one looks to the church to have fun. No one looks to the church to have fun, like parties. Like, if you wanna have fun, go get drunk, go out to a club. Yeah. But like, why, why shouldn't we set the standard towards no. Like, we've got the greatest news in the world. If anyone should be joyful, it should be Christians. And so let's have, let's have some fun, um, and, and do and show people like, Hey, you can have a great time and you don't have to cuss. Um, you can have a great time. You don't have to be half naked. Uh, you can have a great time and, and you, you don't have to be drunk. Like you can have good, clean, wholesome, fun and do it in the name of Jesus.

Nick Clason (13:50):
Yeah. No, that's really good. So, uh, couple, I now just want to get like specific and ask some like, just kind of fun questions. So what is, what video, uh, have you posted on your TikTok that has gotten like the most traction, the most likes? The mo went the most viral.

Rob Shepherd (14:07):
Yeah. So, uh, so, um, uh, you know, I was on TikTok for, uh, I wanna say, so I got on in 2020. It's 2022. So going on two years, it'll be three years I guess next, next March or, um, so for my first year, um, I had decent success, but it was nothing crazy. Um, I gained, uh, in, in year one I got up to 10,000 followers. Um, but I never had a video that had a million views. I had a few that like, were close 800,000, 900,000, but I never hit a million. Um, year two, uh, it was the summer, uh, Olympics and my wife said, Hey, we should do an at-home Olympics competition with our family. And so we invited a couple friends over and just did like, almost minute to win it type games. Yeah. But we called it at Home Olympics.

Rob Shepherd (14:58):
And I did like eight of these videos. And, uh, most of them didn't do great, but like, one of 'em was like the fourth one, uh, it, it took about two or three weeks, but it, it hit over a million views. Yeah. Um, and that's when I was like, okay, people like watching us play these, these games. And so we started doing some more of those. And then, uh, by November of of that year, um, I, I posted a, um, there was this trend that kind of went around, uh, like imposter where you have like, uh, you know, three waters and one vinegar mm-hmm. , and, you know, people gotta, you gotta guess who, who drank the, the vinegar. Um, so we were like, Hey, that would be fun to do with our family. And when I was a youth pastor, um, years ago, I, I used to do this thing called Dr.

Rob Shepherd (15:45):
Dare, where I would trick the students. And so, uh, if you take, uh, like a, a tub of vanilla ice cream and you scoop out all the ice cream and you fill it with mayonnaise and then you freeze it, it scoops just like ice cream. Okay. So back when I was a youth pastor, I would say, Hey, we're gonna have a ice cream eating competition. And, you know, I'd get my two volunteers and I'd scoop it out and they would think they're eating two scoops of vanilla ice cream. But then I would say, ah, you know, Dr. Dare gotcha. This is mayonnaise. Let's see who can eat the most mayonnaise. And then, you know, set a 32nd timer and they have to eat the most. And so, um, I was thinking about this imposter thing. I was like, you know what, we could freeze, uh, mayonnaise and do three ice creams, one mayonnaise, um, and let's just, let's just do an imposter.

Rob Shepherd (16:26):
Yeah. Um, and so we did this imposter video and I closed my phone and we went out shopping and, uh, we were at Target and I was like, I told my wife, I said, Hey, can I, can I look at your phone real quick just to see, uh, I wanna see how our TikTok is doing. And, um, it was like an hour later and it had like 17,000 views. And I was like, wow, okay. That's, that's pretty crazy. Uh, by, by like, you know, that night, um, it was like 800,000 by the next day it was, uh, like up to 2 million. Yeah. Um, that video currently, I don't look at it, I, I've kind of lost track of it, but last I checked it was at like 59 million views. Wow. Um, and so it has gone, it like there's people that are speaking Chinese and German, like there's all sorts of languages that have hit on this video in the comments Yeah. In the comments . Yeah. But that, so that imposter one, um, we've, we've had multiple now that have gone over a million. We've had a few that have hit, uh, you know, 10 million, uh, 6 million. Uh, but the biggest was that imposter one with the mayonnaise and it, it's at like, I think 59 million.

Nick Clason (17:33):
Yeah. And like I was telling you this week, like we, we tried a couple year of those. Right. And so we've, uh, we've done a few of those like on our team. Yeah. Um, and so our first one hit this week and we had an event last night and it was just fun cuz there's a lot of people like kind of talking to us about it. Yeah. Like, I totally thought she had it, I didn't Yeah. Like, you know, all that type of stuff. And so I think, you know, sort of like my heartbeat, uh, behind this podcast right, is like, I don't think that, um, digital ministry only is necessarily the best way to approach reaching people. I think it can happen. Um, but I think it's difficult. I think Covid showed to us like some of the limitations of it a hundred percent.

Nick Clason (18:19):
However, like the completely reliant on, on, uh, in-person, um, without any sort of digital expression at all, um, is very much like, Hey, come, like you said, come to our gathering place once a week and then we'll see you next week. Right? Yeah. Like, people still live lives 367 other hours of their, their week. And so how do we show up in, in those spaces, in those dead sort of spaces? And like you said, where people are, they're online, they're, they're jumping on their phones. Um, oftentimes, let's be honest, they're jumping on their phones to be entertained or maybe inspired. Um, but they're not jumping on their phones to be reminded about the church potluck in two weeks. A hundred percent jump. They're jumping on their phones to watch something silly. Like, I don't know about you. Like me and my wife will just get on our phones after the kids go to bed and she'll be on hers, I'll be on mine and we'll share stuff to each other like across the couch.

Nick Clason (19:12):
Yeah. Like, Hey, did you watch that thing I just sent you? Um, or we'll, you know, I'll turn it and show it to her. And so I think that sort of archetype of just like fun, entertaining, um, your church can, can be that, you know, you can set that example, um, and do it, uh, just for fun. Like I said, if nothing else, not even necessarily to try and go viral. Um, sure. But for your people, it's a way to, to engage. And like I said, so one of the way, one of the things I'm doing is I'm taking all that TikTok stuff. I'm also putting it on reels. Yeah. But then I can use that, uh, on our, our Instagram feed or our Instagram stories, which is often we're more of our actual followers are coming across our content. Yeah. So like I shared that imposter video that we did, uh, but I shared it to our story and then I just put like a, uh, the poll question sticker, like, who do you think it was? Yeah. And let people vote, right? Yeah. And so it's just another kinda layer way to like engage with your people. So even if you're listening to this, you're like, I don't know, I don't know if my goal is to reach 12 million people, like you don't have to like, that doesn't mm-hmm. that doesn't have to be the end game or the end No. The end goal in all this, you know, so

Rob Shepherd (20:19):
Well, and I, I would say to that fact, if you go chasing views, TikTok will drive you crazy mm-hmm. . Um, because the videos that I've put a ton of time in and I'm like, this is great. We've edited this. Like I've spent so much, I scripted this out, they flop mm-hmm. , um, you know, and a video that you don't even think about. Like I, I had a video, we did a video, we, we do this thing for my kids' birthdays, for all our birthdays where we flip a birthday cake. Yeah. And, um, my daughter flipped hers and her, her facial reaction was so great cuz she didn't, she, she caught it upside down. And I posted that video on their birthday, which is March 30th. Um, it did nothing mm-hmm. Like literally did nothing. Two months later it went viral. Hmm. Um, and it's that 6 million views right now, but if you chase views, if you do something for the views, you'll be so disappointed.

Rob Shepherd (21:08):
Yeah. Or I, I would say for anyone listening this, um, you don't have to duplicate someone else's TikTok, be authentic to who you are. Do what, what interests you. My family likes doing these games. Yeah. So it's very authentic and real to us. But if you don't like doing those games, don't go chasing that. If you don't like dancing, don't do dances on TikTok. Like Yeah. Don't do that. There is a niche for almost or niche, however you say it. There is a, a, a niche for almost everyone. Yeah. Um, you've gotta find it and be consistent. And when it's authentic to you, you can find an audience. But it, it takes, it takes time and a lot of work.

Nick Clason (21:39):
Yeah. All right. So that, so then another question I have, so those are your most viral videos. Yeah. What's your favorite video? And maybe like you said it, you put a lot of time into it, effort into it, and it didn't, it didn't do anything like, but what's a, a favorite video or two that you've done that maybe didn't go viral, but you're like, yeah, this is really cool. I still really liked it.

Rob Shepherd (22:00):
Yeah. Um, so I might have like recency bias, but there's one that I filmed a few weeks ago, uh, with my kids and my son does not love being on camera. Um, my daughter will, will she, she's more of a little bit of a ham, so she'll, she'll jump on with me. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but we did a video to, uh, uh, a sound, we, so we didn't create the sound. Um, but she is playing, um, she has wrapping paper rolls and she's hitting my head and it's making like the drum noise. And my son took a cardboard cutout that we have of elf and he puts it into the background so he's controlling that she can't see him, but it gave him something to do. And, uh, it was just the three of us that, that made it. And it was so fun to make. Yeah. Um, it has not taken off at all. Uh, and so first I posted it once and it, it, it did not take off. And so like a week later I posted it a second time just hoping it would like, kind of take off. It hasn't taken off either, but that was the, probably the most fun I've had. And, and one of the ones that I'm like, I love that cause I did it with my kids.

Nick Clason (22:59):
Yeah. Yeah. So let's talk a little bit like just nerdy kind of like strategy stuff with that. So yeah. Uh, talk about what you've seen in the algorithm and um, and views and whatnot about, you know, you said like re reposting it. So are you like deleting the original video or are you just never taking it back onto your feed to try and like catch catch that lottery ticket again? Yeah. Um, and like, how, how many times would you do that with a certain video? Would you do it more than two times? Um, or what have you done, you know, that you've seen work?

Rob Shepherd (23:35):
Yeah. So here's the thing about TikTok, what you said earlier is what almost everyone does. No one hangs out on the following. They hang out on the for you page. Yeah. So if, if your videos don't get on the for you page, people aren't seeing them over and over again mm-hmm. . And so it doesn't hurt you to repost something and just see like, Hey, did this, you know, did it flop because no one, you know, is the wrong time of day or whatever, or Hmm. You know, whatever. So it doesn't, it doesn't hurt you to repost. And if you'll notice the people that consistently go viral, they repost the same type of video over and over again. Yeah. It may have a new tweak to it, but once they find out what do people like, they just do that over and over again. And then eventually they'll come up with a new, you know, twist or whatever.

Rob Shepherd (24:19):
Um, but there's a family that I, I follow that they've got, you know, like 2 million followers and when I scroll through their page, like I go to their direct page, it's the same video once every four videos. There's like, they just repeat it over and over again. Yeah. Um, and so yeah. I, I think, I think go for it. If you, if you, it's not like Instagram where people will, will criticize you or say, I've already seen this or Facebook, uh, it's all reliant on the for you page. And so if it didn't go viral, probably no one saw it on the for you page. You just repost it again.

Nick Clason (24:52):
Yeah. Yeah. You're right. Man, that's so, that's so interesting to think about cuz we've been so conditioned by the curated feeds, you know? Yeah. And everything that Instagram and Facebook were like, it's just, it's an, it's a brand new day out there on social media. And, and the reason I can say that like confidently Yeah. Is cause every other platform is ripping TikTok off right now. Like mm-hmm. , every other platform is going all in Instagram about three months ago, converted every video to a reel. Yep. Um, YouTube tried shorts didn't work and they, they took it down and they're tweaking it and bringing it back. Not because they don't want to work. They, they did some stuff I think on their backend to promote it even more. So everyone is saying this is, this is the new wave. So it's it, but it's a new wave of thinking too. Right? Yeah. Um, yeah. So it's, I that's so, that's so crazy to think about. Um,

Rob Shepherd (25:49):
Yeah. And I, as far real quick, as far as taking, taking down a video, um, so I know Instagram ingrained in a lot of, especially teenagers, that if it doesn't have a certain amount of likes take it down. Um, cuz they're like mm-hmm. a ashamed of it or, or you know, whatever. Um, do not do that on TikTok. I think it is a massive mistake. Mm-hmm. Very few people are just scrolling your profile and give a rip about how your videos are doing. That's good. Um, but what happens is, especially now, cuz this year TikTok has converted itself to be more of a search engine. Mm-hmm. , it wants to be more like YouTube. So like I have videos from last Christmas games that we played that are going viral right now Mm. Because people are searching for Christmas games. Mm. And so, like, I had a video that had a few thousand views last year. Right Now it's, it's, I mean, it's got thousands upon thousands of views from this year, year a year later because people are now searching for Christmas games or, or, or whatever. Mm-hmm. So I, I don't delete, I don't delete anything. There's been a couple that I have privated or I've turned to like friends only mm-hmm. , um, you know, but, uh, I, for the most part, once it's out there, just like see what happens and it could be six months to a year and then it'll take off.

Nick Clason (27:02):
Yeah. That's so good too. Think about it, the, it's come in like a search engine, so churches, church leaders, like you can answer questions that people might search like Yep. Questions about God, about faith, about theology, about like, some deep existential things that, like

Rob Shepherd (27:21):
Marriage relationships

Nick Clason (27:21):
You're all going to be looking at. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, you can show up in Yeah. In those searches. So that's good. Yeah. All right. So the last, just the last little thing I wanna touch on here before we we sign off is how do you personally, uh, not get sucked into the addict addictive side of social media? Like the fact that, you know, you can be chasing likes, views, like it's, I mean, it's scientifically proven that they're built, our smartphones are built to be like dopamine hits, which are the same things that like drugs, uh, or pornography give us, right? Yeah. So like, what are some just sort of personal guardrails or things that you do to protect yourself or your family or your screen time or those types of things as you're, um, also producing different and lots of content?

Rob Shepherd (28:10):
Yeah, yeah. You know, so I a hundred percent got sucked in, in, into that, um mm-hmm. . And, uh, I would say the, the first thing that really, uh, impacted me is when we first kind of started going viral. Um, I thought, you know, this is it. Like, and it was so nice. Every time I opened my phone I had 99 notifications and it was so cool. It was like, man, you know, people are loving it. But then after a couple months I hit a dead zone and my videos, everything I posted, it didn't matter. It just flopped and it messes with your head. It's like, well, what's wrong with me? Does my content stink now? And like, it's not the case. Like, I don't know what happens with the algorithm, but the algorithm giveth and it take it away. Like there are, there are just seasons where it's like, no matter what you post, no one's gonna see it.

Rob Shepherd (28:57):
No one's gonna care. Mm-hmm. . And then there's other seasons where like you could sneeze on, on camera and it's gonna go viral. And so, um, that kind of seasoned learning helped me say, okay, I, I don't need to, I need to get off my phone. I don't need to be obsessed with it cuz I can't control it. Mm-hmm. , once the video is posted, I can't control if it goes viral or not. And so typically when I post a video, I shut my phone off and I don't get on TikTok for a while. Um, and just kind of let it sit and then, you know, I'll, I'll open it later. Um, also try really hard, uh, for family time. Um, which the nice thing about making tos with my family is that we get to do something together. Yeah. Um, before they started making 'em, it was me by myself.

Rob Shepherd (29:39):
Yeah. And that, my wife and I, we had to have some hard conversations cuz it's like, you know, we're watching TV and I would go make a TikTok and it would only take 15, 20 minutes, but it's 15, 20 minutes away from them. Mm-hmm. now we make a lot together. And so that, that's also been, but yeah, trying to shut off the phone. Um, trying not to, to let it consume your, your mindset and it'll make you go crazy if you're, if you're looking for likes or looking for, how's this video doing mm-hmm. now I just post and, uh, just let the album do its thing. Yeah.

Nick Clason (30:09):
No, that's good. I think, I think it's just acknowledging like they are trying to suck you in. So Yeah. A know that and then b like as a social media creator, pastor, producer, whatever, ministry leader, just have this self-discipline to put it down, walk away. Yeah. Maintain that walkaway power. So yeah. All right, man, let us know, uh, where can people follow you on TikTok? Tell us about Yeah. Your book coming out, like where they can grab all that type of stuff.

Rob Shepherd (30:39):
Yeah, so, um, I am, uh, at Rob Shep on TikTok, uh, Instagram. It's at Rob underscore Shep. Um, Facebook, I'm Rob Shepherd. Um, so, and I'm on all those. Uh, I don't ever check Twitter, but you can find me on there too, . Um, but, uh, yeah, so TikTok is at Rob Shep. Um, new book will be out, uh, hopefully by February, um, February, March. And you'll be able to find it on Amazon. But it, uh, all my books are on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, anywhere you go to buy books, especially online. Yeah. Um, you, they, you can get a copy of, of my book. And so I've had, uh, three books out. The first one's called, even if You Were Perfect, someone would Crucify You. The second one's called You Misspelled Christian, and the third one is called Kill the Jerk. And so, um, those are my three books. And then, uh, fourth one is about, uh, when offense knocks and about not getting so offended. So,

Nick Clason (31:31):
Mm. That's good. Love it. All right man. Well thanks so much for your time

Rob Shepherd (31:35):
During Yeah, thank you. Crazy

Nick Clason (31:36):
Busy Christmas week. Um, for sure. Appreciate you making some time for it. Talk about TikTok a little bit. Um, yeah, some fun stuff. So, and uh, yeah man, we'll talk to you next time.

Rob Shepherd (31:45):
All right, sounds good. Thanks for having me on.

Nick Clason (31:47):
Yeah. Later, bro.

Rob Shepherd (31:48):
All right.

Nick Clason (31:50):
Well man, I hope that you guys enjoyed that conversation. Uh, I know even as I was having the interview with him, I learned a couple of things and he made me think differently about a couple of things in managing, uh, my TikTok reels, YouTube shorts, all the different accounts that, um, are promoting short form videos. So I hope that was beneficial and advantageous for you. Hey, if this was helpful, go uh, share it with a friend. We're gonna be posting some clips of this over on my personal TikTok at Clason, Nick, uh, check that out. And here soon. Um, I will be dropping a video, um, I believe next week, um, at the start of the new year on the framework, um, for posting a TikTok. It's called, have I Ruined My TikTok account yet? A guide for posting a TikTok from Start to finish.

Nick Clason (32:38):
Uh, it's gonna be complete with an ebook, um, as well as a tutorial video. And so excited to have you guys check that out. You can head, uh, to the show notes hybrid ministry.xyz/ 0 2 4, uh, to subscribe to my YouTube channel and, uh, to join my TikTok follower list, if that's something that interests you, or if you just want transcript notes from the show. We provide transcripts for every single episode completely for free at zero cost to you. We hope that you find it beneficial and advantageous. And also, would you just do us a favor, share this podcast with a friend, subscribe, rate. All those things will be an incredible gift to us here in the weeks after the Christmas season. Um, our gift to you is to continue to deliver meaningful and useful content every Thursday. Um, and a gift back if you so desire would just be, uh, a rating.

Nick Clason (33:35):
You would love that so much. Just open your purple podcast app on your phone, give us a five star and, uh, that would be incredibly generous and we would thank you so much for that. So, um, like I said, anytime you need anything hybridministry.xyz, there's also a, um, articles tab there. We're gonna start posting some more articles and writings and things like that. So, um, that's where the ebook is gonna be found. So just check that out. That's so interest to you. But until next time, we'll talk to a happy New Year and see you in.

Come hang out at http://hybridministry.xyz
Or follow me on TikTok at https://www.tiktok.com/@clasonnick
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TIMECODES
00:00-01:59 - Intro
01:59-02:46 - 1) Trends and Dances
02:46-03:52 - 2) Guess Who
03:52-05:00 - 3) Blind Rankings
05:00-06:22 - 4) Competitions
06:22-06:56 - 5) Recap Video of Events
06:56-07:52 - 6) Devotionals
07:52-08:34 - 7) Sermon Clips
08:34-09:46 - 8) Read the Bible with Me
09:46-10:17 - 9) Practice Prayer
10:17-11:07 - Outro

TRANSCRIPT
Nick Clason (00:02):
What is up everybody? Welcome to another episode of the Hybrid Ministry podcast. So excited to be here with you. My name is Nick Clason, and I am of course your host. Glad to have you today. You know, I wanted to talk a little bit about, um, a little bit different of an episode today. I wanted to look at an episode from the American TV show, the Office. Now obviously, like many, many of us are very familiar with this television show, right? Um, and you know, it's actually really funny. I have a coworker who's younger, she's in her twenties, and she didn't even know that the show ever even aired on like Network tv. She thought it was always a streaming show. So anyway, so I'm, I'm doing a little re-watch of this show, and I mean, here's the thing, like truth be told, I'm kind of like always doing a re-watch of this show.

Nick Clason (00:53):
I'm always, it's always at some level or some layer available to me. But the episode in particular that I wanted to focus on was from season four, episode two. It's called Dunder Mifflin Infinity. And if you're not familiar with the show, let me just bring you up to speed a little bit on it. So, Ryan, new manager at Dunder Mifflin. Um, Michael is still the, uh, the regional manager, the guy that everyone's kind of like used to and, and no, and he's famous and whatever and whatnot. Ryan is now his boss. And so that lasts for about a season. But Ryan is this new kind of young, up and coming guy. And so Ryan's entire like focus and identity and purpose is, he wants to bring D Mifflin into the 21st century. He wants to digitize them. And so Ryan is sort of this all digital, this all kind of person, right?

Nick Clason (01:40):
Online is the future. This is how it needs to happen, this is how it goes. Eventually, Ryan ends up in jail for fraud. So it doesn't exactly end up well for him, but let's just take a look at this episode in a microcosm. Um, conversely, there's Michael, who's old school. Michael's all about relationships. Michael's all about customer service. That's always sort of been done. Mifflin's calling card in the office is they're able to, um, out customer service, the big box retail guys. So what they're doing constantly in all of their sales and all those things is they're saying like, Hey, we're better than Staples. We're better than Office Depot, and we're able to supply you guys with the best possible customer service. And so we have Michael, basically we have Michael versus Ryan, right? In this, in this episode. And as I was watching it, it made me, um, it made me really like interested in this juxtaposition that we find ourselves in the church, in digital versus in person.

Nick Clason (02:41):
All right? And so, um, basically to, to summarize, uh, the rest of the episode, Ryan's pushing everyone to be more digital, gives everybody blackberries. Like that's the whole thing. Michael is opposing it. Jan, his now, uh, girlfriend is telling him that, um, he can sue Ryan for being, um, ages istic, um, and pushing out all the old people. And so, um, in an attempt to win everybody back over, Michael takes gift baskets to 10 clients that they've lost and that have, uh, switched over to other companies. And in that, while he's doing that, right, people are like, Hey, um, thank you so much for this gift basket, but that website thing that you're talking about, that's actually quite interesting to me. So let me know when that's a, when that's up and running. I'll be interested in exploring coming back to your company. And so there's wins for them, um, but there still are wins in the kind of like customer service side of things.

Nick Clason (03:41):
And so if you're a fan of the show at all, uh, just real quick, Michael drives his car into a lake because he is following a GPS way too closely and way too literally. And, um, he comes back to the office soaking wet and he thinks that he's lost. And, but in the meantime, for some reason, Ryan doesn't have the kones to stand up to Michael and just put him in his place, which I always find odd and interesting, but it's just this kind of weird tension between the digital guy and the in-person guy. So let's explore digital real quick. So Ryan is the digital guy where online is the future. And, and it's where everyone's going. I mean, that's kind of the entire thrust of the entire nine seasons, right? Is that this company is becoming so irrelevant with how they're doing things that like all the other guys are, are passing them.

Nick Clason (04:28):
Like even in the beginning of this episode, there's a funny kind of bit where Ryan is talking about the overhaul of the website, and Jim goes, well, I don't know what's wrong with our website. And he goes to it and it's got like this little, uh, stick figure animation that says under construction coming soon, and it gives like a year. And like at the time of the airing, like that year had already passed. And so therefore it just goes to show that they had not at all and in any way been investing in their website, which is such a wild thing to think about how recently this show aired. Like that was, that's an, that was a necessary thing for people back then, or at least I feel like it should have been. And maybe, um, I'm forgetting how much older that show is, right?

Nick Clason (05:08):
But anyway, so Ryan's coming in and he's ready to overhaul this whole thing. And I, I see elements of myself in Ryan, um, and how I viewed digital ministry, um, very recently, and even maybe still a little bit if I am being completely and totally honest, right? So, uh, in the ways that I, I see myself like Ryan, I'm pushing all my chips into the middle, uh, saying I'm all in on online because I look at all the stats. I see that generation Z millennials, uh, high percentage of people are living their lives on Facebook. Uh, gen Z spends five to eight hours of screen time a day. And so therefore I'm like, we need to show up where they are. And I still believe those things, by the way, right? But sometimes at the, at the downfall of what happens on, uh, in an in-person experience or an in-person ministry type of moment, um, I forget that like there are valuable things, um, that can happen in the in-person type of moment.

Nick Clason (06:09):
And also, uh, the way I am, I'm, I, I often play devil's advocate. And so I feel like in uh, organizations, I kind of come in and I end up sort of taking the role of the change agent. And so if everything is, uh, a pendulum swing to, um, all the in-person style of ministry, I'm trying to push them to think about things another way. Not that I don't agree with these things, but just that like this church or this organization that I'm working in, they don't need more of that, right? They need more of this. And so my attitude and my posture becomes one of kind of all in and continually pushing in that way. So, uh, definitely in the last church I worked in, like there was this big argument on the heels of Covid. Covid was over. People were done with it.

Nick Clason (06:52):
They were ready to either come back or be in person or give up online, whatever. And I thought we were doing some valuable things online. And so therefore, I was making an attempt to continue to remain online. And so all I talked about all the things, I said, all my arguments were online, online, online. And I wonder if people that I worked with, like, do you, do you even care about some of this other in-person stuff? And the answer of course is, yes, I did. Right? But like, because of my personality and my devil's advocate this, I needed to keep pushing about it that way.

Nick Clason (07:26):
So let's look at Michael. Michael, anti-d digital anti online wants to be all about in-person, right? He's saying customer service still matters. He brings the gift baskets to all of his customers. I would say that I resonate with Michael in this episode very much like when I, uh, was back in Bible college, right? Um, in a lot of ways when I'm in college, I didn't have the ability to kind of nuance or think about things or see things in other ways. And so like this, like this is the way that it has to be. This is the way it's supposed to be very like dogmatic, right? Like I would say you can't do church without being together. Um, and I've even had conversations with, uh, former students of mine who've said those types of things, like, well, preaching has to be in person. And maybe one day I'll do a deep dive.

Nick Clason (08:14):
Um, first of all, I need to do some study into the theology of preaching in the theology of proclaiming God's word, right? But like, I need to look into that and say like, can preaching and can the exposition or delivering of God's word be done in a different way than behind a pulpit? And I guess I would have to say, I think it has to be, because biblically speaking, most pastors, exhorters teachers, overseers, shepherds, were not behind a pulpit. Like that's, that's a much more recent phenomenon. And so to say that that's the only way it can be can't actually be true. Cuz if you look at the Bible, that's not the way it was back then. And if we wanna wanna be true to what the Bible has to say and what the word of God has to say, then I don't know that we can make that, that, you know, conclusion.

Nick Clason (09:03):
Exactly. And so we see Michael very much in that like, this is how it has to be unwilling to kind of move and change and flex and adopt and become different, right? Like with the times and like, what's going on? All right, so that was Ryan. That was Michael. Well, now let's look at a hybrid approach to this, right? Because as I was watching this, obviously it's for comedy and obviously, right, it's for show, but Ryan and Michael, in my personal opinion were both right, but both of them were so consumed with winning, right? That like, it became, uh, comical about who is gonna win this guy or that guy, right? So, so Michael didn't want to go online at all. And I think that's dumb. Like there is going to be value in that, especially when you're watching the episode and some of the customers that he's seeing are like, uh, yeah, let me know when your website's back.

Nick Clason (09:57):
I think that they could do both, right? They could, they could have good customer service and have a good online sort of port, uh, portal, right? And make those things marry together. I think that, um, they could really serve their customers well cuz they are still small. And so if they were able to come up with a relevant, useful, good, uh, website, then could they bring that to their customers? And I think the answer to that is yes. And I wish that they would've, uh, seen that and that Michael and Ryan would've come together and willing and were willing more to work in like, sort of like a hybrid sort of way. I think. Um, Ryan wanted to go strictly online and was not concerned about losing the touch of, uh, their personal, uh, customer service, their personal touchability that Dunder Mifflin had. And I think that that's a big loss for him.

Nick Clason (10:47):
I think he's missing out on a pretty important moment. Why? Because, uh, Ryan, uh, didn't know what d mifflin's as up the sleeve was. The asep the sleeve was their customer service. So the people that were choosing to be with them did not want to be with them because of a nice new flashy website. Of course, he's thinking about reaching people, but how do you retain the people that are already there, um, as customers of your paper company? Okay? So I think both of them play a role. I think they mesh together really well. And at that intersection is where we find hybrid ministry. So let's explore in church, um, the pairing of the Ryan and the Michael, and where can some live things that we have a church have adopted or have become customary or we're just so used to, where can some of those live things be made more digital?

Nick Clason (11:39):
Okay, so number one, we have sermons. Let's talk about sermons again. I think one day I'd love to do a deep dive, maybe that'll be a future episode here of, um, sermons and exposition of the Bible and teaching and proclaiming of, of God's word. Um, where can some of those things be made into a digital format? Well, first and foremost, if you are preaching a sermon every single week, you can record that audio and immediately turn that into podcast. I read something that, um, the majority of adults, uh, listened to eight hours of podcasts a week. And so, um, I know like last week, for example, let me give you an example of my own life. I went to like a membership class at my church and I've told you guys, I'm new at my church. Um, and we weren't able to go to service or we were, but we kind of chose not to.

Nick Clason (12:28):
So hopefully anyone who like, um, I work for, sorry about that. Um, and guess what I did? I, I went and I was like, I'm gonna listen to this podcast, uh, later throughout the week. And so that is a really easy way for, for people in your church who miss. And it might even be, uh, easy way for people, um, who are unconnected to your church to come to, uh, at least an awareness of your church at a very like elementary level. And all you need to do is some simple plugin things into your audio board, capture your pastor's audio, some pretty basic mixing on the back end. You maybe don't even need to do a ton, as long as it doesn't sound horrendous. And then just upload that thing to an iTunes, um, apple podcast, Spotify podcast capture so that people can discover it.

Nick Clason (13:15):
Another layer to that of course could be to create like YouTube sermons. So to record your, um, sermon and your audio and pair those together. Of course, if you listen to my last episode, um, my 2023 and Beyond YouTube strategy for churches, I highly, highly recommend pre-filing your content, pairing down your sermons. Cuz most sermons or lectures are anywhere from 25 to 45 minutes long. And that's a little bit too long for the YouTube algorithm. You want to try and slide somewhere between that 12 and 18 minute range for videos on YouTube. So of course you could do that as well. Again, all you're doing is taking your content from your sermon and you're overlaying it and creating an opportunity for it to be digital, right? So like then another option is you have your sermons. So break those up into small short TikTok clips.

Nick Clason (14:07):
Like if you're not good at video editing, an option that you can do is you can take, uh, just a camera like I'm doing and talk directly into it and create 30 to 62nd clips from your message. Like you already have the content. So even if you can't get a clip from the actual pastor preaching a sermon, you can still use the same topic or the same content or the same passage and rip that post that and do 3, 4, 5 different little like sermon clips throughout the week. You can use that in short form video and everything, every single platform, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, and TikTok are all about the short form video content. So use those things to your advantage. So with your sermons, you got got audio podcasts, you got YouTube videos, and you also have short form video. TikTok style clips. Another option for a thing that, um, is done live, but can be made.

Nick Clason (15:03):
Um, digital is a group finder. Most churches are all about community, are about helping people get connected, find their place, find their place to serve, uh, find, have something on your website that operates as a connection portal, uh, connect group, a small group, a grow group, or whatever you call your small groups. Have people be able to go on there and browse and search, make it user friendly. Uh, a lot of church management softwares will have those things as an available option that you can use some sort of group finder type of thing or just build something on your website. But the reality is, is like in my personal life, if I can't get an appointment with a dentist or a doctor or whatever through creating an appointment online, I don't want to use them. So I'm probably not gonna call, I'm probably not gonna email.

Nick Clason (15:51):
I might email. Um, but if I can have a full service, create an appointment type of thing online, I'm gonna do that. And I think the same is true for churches, especially for finding community, for finding groups, for finding places to jump in, uh, and be able to serve. So create something that's full scale, full service and available for your people to use, uh, to find community. The last option is daily devotionals. We all know the importance of getting people in the word, but there's a recent stat out there that said 8% of Christ following Christians, uh, read the Bible only one time a week, 8%. So how can we as a church, help give our people the tools that they have? There are an unlimited amount of tools. Now think about before the printing press. What did they have to use? They had to go to church to get the Bible, but now they can access it on their phone.

Nick Clason (16:45):
Probably many of us have multiple Bibles on our shelves at home. So how can we help get people, um, using scripture throughout their week? So a couple of options are, uh, the U version Bible plan, uh, u version Bible app on people's phones. They have plans, you can read things together, you can also put sermon notes on there so that people can follow along. And then when they're done at the bottom, you can link out to a plan to read together or to encourage people to read through on their own u version. Done by Life Church is an absolutely incredible tool for churches and it's only getting better. So use that as something that you can help promote scripture and um, bible literacy with the people in your church and in your congregation. Another option, of course, like I said, is um, you can use devotional type content.

Nick Clason (17:28):
So this is different than sermon content, but devotional content or going deeper on the sermon or something like that. And you can do that in TikTok, real short form video. Uh, you can even do like a little mini-series, like how to read the Bible and do a three-part series and post it, uh, on your social media for the week. But what are different ways that you can use social media, short form video, TikTok and those types of things to create devotional type content. So like I said, I think that there's been this, this fight between digital Ryan Howard and in person Michael Scott in the Dunner Mifflin Affinity episode. And I just wish I could have got together and helped counsel them. Been like, this is how you can marry those two things. And I find that to be true in the church community and coming together and praying and crying on each other's shoulders and carrying one another's burdens.

Nick Clason (18:21):
That's so important. And it cannot be done digitally, but people also need to be discipled. People need to read Bible content. People need to hear the truth from God's word, and they're not always available to show up to your in-person event in a physical form. So what are ways that you can support people in your church to help them, uh, through the means, through the the phone that's sitting in their pocket to help coach them and and teach them what it's like to live a life? Um, that's not just digital, not just physical, but it's hybrid. Hey guys, once again, thanks for hanging out. Uh, we've, we have full transcripts for every single episode over hybridministry.xyz I'd love to encourage you to go check that out. It's a great place to find some stuff there. Also, um, on my personal TikTok at Clason Nick, c l a s o n n i c k, uh, posting little clips, um, from podcast episodes, um, current and past. So go check out on, hang out with us there. Love to connect with you in that way. Until next time, we'll talk to you all later.

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TIMECODES
00:00-04:12 What we can learn from The Office
04:12-07:24 Digital - Ryan
07:24-09:16 In Person - Michael
09:16-11:21 How to make those two become Hybrid
11:21-14:57 Sermons
14:57-16:12 Helping People Find Community
16:12-17:53 Bible Reading
17:53-19:38 Outro

TRANSCRIPT
Nick Clason (00:02):
What is up everybody? Welcome to another episode of the Hybrid Ministry podcast. So excited to be here with you. My name is Nick Clason, and I am of course your host. Glad to have you today. You know, I wanted to talk a little bit about, um, a little bit different of an episode today. I wanted to look at an episode from the American TV show, the Office. Now obviously, like many, many of us are very familiar with this television show, right? Um, and you know, it's actually really funny. I have a coworker who's younger, she's in her twenties, and she didn't even know that the show ever even aired on like Network tv. She thought it was always a streaming show. So anyway, so I'm, I'm doing a little re-watch of this show, and I mean, here's the thing, like truth be told, I'm kind of like always doing a re-watch of this show.

Nick Clason (00:53):
I'm always, it's always at some level or some layer available to me. But the episode in particular that I wanted to focus on was from season four, episode two. It's called Dunder Mifflin Infinity. And if you're not familiar with the show, let me just bring you up to speed a little bit on it. So, Ryan, new manager at Dunder Mifflin. Um, Michael is still the, uh, the regional manager, the guy that everyone's kind of like used to and, and no, and he's famous and whatever and whatnot. Ryan is now his boss. And so that lasts for about a season. But Ryan is this new kind of young, up and coming guy. And so Ryan's entire like focus and identity and purpose is, he wants to bring D Mifflin into the 21st century. He wants to digitize them. And so Ryan is sort of this all digital, this all kind of person, right?

Nick Clason (01:40):
Online is the future. This is how it needs to happen, this is how it goes. Eventually, Ryan ends up in jail for fraud. So it doesn't exactly end up well for him, but let's just take a look at this episode in a microcosm. Um, conversely, there's Michael, who's old school. Michael's all about relationships. Michael's all about customer service. That's always sort of been done. Mifflin's calling card in the office is they're able to, um, out customer service, the big box retail guys. So what they're doing constantly in all of their sales and all those things is they're saying like, Hey, we're better than Staples. We're better than Office Depot, and we're able to supply you guys with the best possible customer service. And so we have Michael, basically we have Michael versus Ryan, right? In this, in this episode. And as I was watching it, it made me, um, it made me really like interested in this juxtaposition that we find ourselves in the church, in digital versus in person.

Nick Clason (02:41):
All right? And so, um, basically to, to summarize, uh, the rest of the episode, Ryan's pushing everyone to be more digital, gives everybody blackberries. Like that's the whole thing. Michael is opposing it. Jan, his now, uh, girlfriend is telling him that, um, he can sue Ryan for being, um, ages istic, um, and pushing out all the old people. And so, um, in an attempt to win everybody back over, Michael takes gift baskets to 10 clients that they've lost and that have, uh, switched over to other companies. And in that, while he's doing that, right, people are like, Hey, um, thank you so much for this gift basket, but that website thing that you're talking about, that's actually quite interesting to me. So let me know when that's a, when that's up and running. I'll be interested in exploring coming back to your company. And so there's wins for them, um, but there still are wins in the kind of like customer service side of things.

Nick Clason (03:41):
And so if you're a fan of the show at all, uh, just real quick, Michael drives his car into a lake because he is following a GPS way too closely and way too literally. And, um, he comes back to the office soaking wet and he thinks that he's lost. And, but in the meantime, for some reason, Ryan doesn't have the kones to stand up to Michael and just put him in his place, which I always find odd and interesting, but it's just this kind of weird tension between the digital guy and the in-person guy. So let's explore digital real quick. So Ryan is the digital guy where online is the future. And, and it's where everyone's going. I mean, that's kind of the entire thrust of the entire nine seasons, right? Is that this company is becoming so irrelevant with how they're doing things that like all the other guys are, are passing them.

Nick Clason (04:28):
Like even in the beginning of this episode, there's a funny kind of bit where Ryan is talking about the overhaul of the website, and Jim goes, well, I don't know what's wrong with our website. And he goes to it and it's got like this little, uh, stick figure animation that says under construction coming soon, and it gives like a year. And like at the time of the airing, like that year had already passed. And so therefore it just goes to show that they had not at all and in any way been investing in their website, which is such a wild thing to think about how recently this show aired. Like that was, that's an, that was a necessary thing for people back then, or at least I feel like it should have been. And maybe, um, I'm forgetting how much older that show is, right?

Nick Clason (05:08):
But anyway, so Ryan's coming in and he's ready to overhaul this whole thing. And I, I see elements of myself in Ryan, um, and how I viewed digital ministry, um, very recently, and even maybe still a little bit if I am being completely and totally honest, right? So, uh, in the ways that I, I see myself like Ryan, I'm pushing all my chips into the middle, uh, saying I'm all in on online because I look at all the stats. I see that generation Z millennials, uh, high percentage of people are living their lives on Facebook. Uh, gen Z spends five to eight hours of screen time a day. And so therefore I'm like, we need to show up where they are. And I still believe those things, by the way, right? But sometimes at the, at the downfall of what happens on, uh, in an in-person experience or an in-person ministry type of moment, um, I forget that like there are valuable things, um, that can happen in the in-person type of moment.

Nick Clason (06:09):
And also, uh, the way I am, I'm, I, I often play devil's advocate. And so I feel like in uh, organizations, I kind of come in and I end up sort of taking the role of the change agent. And so if everything is, uh, a pendulum swing to, um, all the in-person style of ministry, I'm trying to push them to think about things another way. Not that I don't agree with these things, but just that like this church or this organization that I'm working in, they don't need more of that, right? They need more of this. And so my attitude and my posture becomes one of kind of all in and continually pushing in that way. So, uh, definitely in the last church I worked in, like there was this big argument on the heels of Covid. Covid was over. People were done with it.

Nick Clason (06:52):
They were ready to either come back or be in person or give up online, whatever. And I thought we were doing some valuable things online. And so therefore, I was making an attempt to continue to remain online. And so all I talked about all the things, I said, all my arguments were online, online, online. And I wonder if people that I worked with, like, do you, do you even care about some of this other in-person stuff? And the answer of course is, yes, I did. Right? But like, because of my personality and my devil's advocate this, I needed to keep pushing about it that way.

Nick Clason (07:26):
So let's look at Michael. Michael, anti-d digital anti online wants to be all about in-person, right? He's saying customer service still matters. He brings the gift baskets to all of his customers. I would say that I resonate with Michael in this episode very much like when I, uh, was back in Bible college, right? Um, in a lot of ways when I'm in college, I didn't have the ability to kind of nuance or think about things or see things in other ways. And so like this, like this is the way that it has to be. This is the way it's supposed to be very like dogmatic, right? Like I would say you can't do church without being together. Um, and I've even had conversations with, uh, former students of mine who've said those types of things, like, well, preaching has to be in person. And maybe one day I'll do a deep dive.

Nick Clason (08:14):
Um, first of all, I need to do some study into the theology of preaching in the theology of proclaiming God's word, right? But like, I need to look into that and say like, can preaching and can the exposition or delivering of God's word be done in a different way than behind a pulpit? And I guess I would have to say, I think it has to be, because biblically speaking, most pastors, exhorters teachers, overseers, shepherds, were not behind a pulpit. Like that's, that's a much more recent phenomenon. And so to say that that's the only way it can be can't actually be true. Cuz if you look at the Bible, that's not the way it was back then. And if we wanna wanna be true to what the Bible has to say and what the word of God has to say, then I don't know that we can make that, that, you know, conclusion.

Nick Clason (09:03):
Exactly. And so we see Michael very much in that like, this is how it has to be unwilling to kind of move and change and flex and adopt and become different, right? Like with the times and like, what's going on? All right, so that was Ryan. That was Michael. Well, now let's look at a hybrid approach to this, right? Because as I was watching this, obviously it's for comedy and obviously, right, it's for show, but Ryan and Michael, in my personal opinion were both right, but both of them were so consumed with winning, right? That like, it became, uh, comical about who is gonna win this guy or that guy, right? So, so Michael didn't want to go online at all. And I think that's dumb. Like there is going to be value in that, especially when you're watching the episode and some of the customers that he's seeing are like, uh, yeah, let me know when your website's back.

Nick Clason (09:57):
I think that they could do both, right? They could, they could have good customer service and have a good online sort of port, uh, portal, right? And make those things marry together. I think that, um, they could really serve their customers well cuz they are still small. And so if they were able to come up with a relevant, useful, good, uh, website, then could they bring that to their customers? And I think the answer to that is yes. And I wish that they would've, uh, seen that and that Michael and Ryan would've come together and willing and were willing more to work in like, sort of like a hybrid sort of way. I think. Um, Ryan wanted to go strictly online and was not concerned about losing the touch of, uh, their personal, uh, customer service, their personal touchability that Dunder Mifflin had. And I think that that's a big loss for him.

Nick Clason (10:47):
I think he's missing out on a pretty important moment. Why? Because, uh, Ryan, uh, didn't know what d mifflin's as up the sleeve was. The asep the sleeve was their customer service. So the people that were choosing to be with them did not want to be with them because of a nice new flashy website. Of course, he's thinking about reaching people, but how do you retain the people that are already there, um, as customers of your paper company? Okay? So I think both of them play a role. I think they mesh together really well. And at that intersection is where we find hybrid ministry. So let's explore in church, um, the pairing of the Ryan and the Michael, and where can some live things that we have a church have adopted or have become customary or we're just so used to, where can some of those live things be made more digital?

Nick Clason (11:39):
Okay, so number one, we have sermons. Let's talk about sermons again. I think one day I'd love to do a deep dive, maybe that'll be a future episode here of, um, sermons and exposition of the Bible and teaching and proclaiming of, of God's word. Um, where can some of those things be made into a digital format? Well, first and foremost, if you are preaching a sermon every single week, you can record that audio and immediately turn that into podcast. I read something that, um, the majority of adults, uh, listened to eight hours of podcasts a week. And so, um, I know like last week, for example, let me give you an example of my own life. I went to like a membership class at my church and I've told you guys, I'm new at my church. Um, and we weren't able to go to service or we were, but we kind of chose not to.

Nick Clason (12:28):
So hopefully anyone who like, um, I work for, sorry about that. Um, and guess what I did? I, I went and I was like, I'm gonna listen to this podcast, uh, later throughout the week. And so that is a really easy way for, for people in your church who miss. And it might even be, uh, easy way for people, um, who are unconnected to your church to come to, uh, at least an awareness of your church at a very like elementary level. And all you need to do is some simple plugin things into your audio board, capture your pastor's audio, some pretty basic mixing on the back end. You maybe don't even need to do a ton, as long as it doesn't sound horrendous. And then just upload that thing to an iTunes, um, apple podcast, Spotify podcast capture so that people can discover it.

Nick Clason (13:15):
Another layer to that of course could be to create like YouTube sermons. So to record your, um, sermon and your audio and pair those together. Of course, if you listen to my last episode, um, my 2023 and Beyond YouTube strategy for churches, I highly, highly recommend pre-filing your content, pairing down your sermons. Cuz most sermons or lectures are anywhere from 25 to 45 minutes long. And that's a little bit too long for the YouTube algorithm. You want to try and slide somewhere between that 12 and 18 minute range for videos on YouTube. So of course you could do that as well. Again, all you're doing is taking your content from your sermon and you're overlaying it and creating an opportunity for it to be digital, right? So like then another option is you have your sermons. So break those up into small short TikTok clips.

Nick Clason (14:07):
Like if you're not good at video editing, an option that you can do is you can take, uh, just a camera like I'm doing and talk directly into it and create 30 to 62nd clips from your message. Like you already have the content. So even if you can't get a clip from the actual pastor preaching a sermon, you can still use the same topic or the same content or the same passage and rip that post that and do 3, 4, 5 different little like sermon clips throughout the week. You can use that in short form video and everything, every single platform, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, and TikTok are all about the short form video content. So use those things to your advantage. So with your sermons, you got got audio podcasts, you got YouTube videos, and you also have short form video. TikTok style clips. Another option for a thing that, um, is done live, but can be made.

Nick Clason (15:03):
Um, digital is a group finder. Most churches are all about community, are about helping people get connected, find their place, find their place to serve, uh, find, have something on your website that operates as a connection portal, uh, connect group, a small group, a grow group, or whatever you call your small groups. Have people be able to go on there and browse and search, make it user friendly. Uh, a lot of church management softwares will have those things as an available option that you can use some sort of group finder type of thing or just build something on your website. But the reality is, is like in my personal life, if I can't get an appointment with a dentist or a doctor or whatever through creating an appointment online, I don't want to use them. So I'm probably not gonna call, I'm probably not gonna email.

Nick Clason (15:51):
I might email. Um, but if I can have a full service, create an appointment type of thing online, I'm gonna do that. And I think the same is true for churches, especially for finding community, for finding groups, for finding places to jump in, uh, and be able to serve. So create something that's full scale, full service and available for your people to use, uh, to find community. The last option is daily devotionals. We all know the importance of getting people in the word, but there's a recent stat out there that said 8% of Christ following Christians, uh, read the Bible only one time a week, 8%. So how can we as a church, help give our people the tools that they have? There are an unlimited amount of tools. Now think about before the printing press. What did they have to use? They had to go to church to get the Bible, but now they can access it on their phone.

Nick Clason (16:45):
Probably many of us have multiple Bibles on our shelves at home. So how can we help get people, um, using scripture throughout their week? So a couple of options are, uh, the U version Bible plan, uh, u version Bible app on people's phones. They have plans, you can read things together, you can also put sermon notes on there so that people can follow along. And then when they're done at the bottom, you can link out to a plan to read together or to encourage people to read through on their own u version. Done by Life Church is an absolutely incredible tool for churches and it's only getting better. So use that as something that you can help promote scripture and um, bible literacy with the people in your church and in your congregation. Another option, of course, like I said, is um, you can use devotional type content.

Nick Clason (17:28):
So this is different than sermon content, but devotional content or going deeper on the sermon or something like that. And you can do that in TikTok, real short form video. Uh, you can even do like a little mini-series, like how to read the Bible and do a three-part series and post it, uh, on your social media for the week. But what are different ways that you can use social media, short form video, TikTok and those types of things to create devotional type content. So like I said, I think that there's been this, this fight between digital Ryan Howard and in person Michael Scott in the Dunner Mifflin Affinity episode. And I just wish I could have got together and helped counsel them. Been like, this is how you can marry those two things. And I find that to be true in the church community and coming together and praying and crying on each other's shoulders and carrying one another's burdens.

Nick Clason (18:21):
That's so important. And it cannot be done digitally, but people also need to be discipled. People need to read Bible content. People need to hear the truth from God's word, and they're not always available to show up to your in-person event in a physical form. So what are ways that you can support people in your church to help them, uh, through the means, through the the phone that's sitting in their pocket to help coach them and and teach them what it's like to live a life? Um, that's not just digital, not just physical, but it's hybrid. Hey guys, once again, thanks for hanging out. Uh, we've, we have full transcripts for every single episode over at hybridministry.xyz. I'd love to encourage you to go check that out. It's a great place to find some stuff there. Also, um, on my personal TikTok @ClasonNick, c-l-a-s-o-n-n-i-c-k, uh, posting little clips, um, from podcast episodes, um, current and past. So go check out on, hang out with us there. Love to connect with you in that way. Until next time, we'll talk to you all later.

Follow along at http://www.hybridministry.xyz
Or on TikTok at https://www.tiktok.com/@clasonnick

TIMECODES
00:00-01:59 - Intro
01:59-10:46 - How do we approach this new wave of algorithim based on discoverability?
10:46-17:31 - How do we navigate boundaries with social media?
17:31-23:30 - The Best Church YouTube strategy for 2023 and beyond
23:30-24:48 - Outro

TRANSCRIPT
Nick Clason (00:02):
What is going on? Hybrid Ministry podcast. My name is Nick Clason. I am your host. Excited to be back with you again. In today's episode, I wanted to just touch on three different topics. Number one, how do we as content creators, as social media managers, as uh, church marketing, uh, aficionados, though none of us really probably went to school for church marketing. How do we handle the new phenomenon that we are in with a discoverability algorithm as opposed to a curated four year followers type algorithm that we used to experience or we were so accustomed to experiencing with Facebook and Instagram? The other thing I wanna look at is I wanna talk about how do we handle and navigate the fact that these, uh, phones and social media apps are so, uh, addicted, they literally mess with our brains. How do we navigate that? How do we handle that?

Nick Clason (01:02):
And is the means with which we are using to push out our content, is that the actual message? And what does that communicate to our church people? And then lastly, uh, I want to, I wanna lay up for you what I think to be the best small church and potentially even bigger than just small church YouTube strategy for churches in 2023. So let's get this thing started, but before we do, don't forget, like, subscribe. Um, you know what I switched over from, uh, focusing on my attention over on Twitter? We are now, um, at my personal Instagram, um, @ClasonNick, uh, on TikTok for, um, all the things that we have. Social media, also swing by hybridministry.xyz, which is the home of this podcast where you can find everything that you ever need, including show notes and transcripts. Those are there every single episode for you for free.

Nick Clason (01:56):
Let's get this thing started. So, how do we handle, how do we approach a discoverability algorithm? So the first thing you need to know is what is a discoverability algorithm? TikTok is the, um, is the platform that made this discoverability algorithm famous. You'll know if you're on TikTok, that there's a friends panel and there is a fyp or a four you panel. The reality is most of the content that you see on TikTok, it's probably done by people that you have discovered as opposed to people that you are actually friends with. What that means is the algorithm is smart and it understands that it knows who you interact with, what videos you watch the longest, which ones you share the most, which ones you like the most, which ones you save the most. And it highlights those. It indexes those and then it comes back and it feeds you more of that content.

Nick Clason (02:44):
It's honestly astonishing and bewildering and a little bit frightening how smart it is at knowing you and knowing me. So how do we as churches in 2022 and beyond handle, uh, approaching platforms with discoverability algorithms? Cuz here's the thing. You at the church might be thinking, well, that's fine, but I'm not on TikTok. The problem is every social platform, YouTube, Facebook, and now Instagram are going all in on short form video discoverability platforms in an attempt and in an effort to keep up with the phenomenon that is TikTok. So what do we do about that? Because, uh, you can choose to ignore it. And I would imagine that some churches are going to do that because, um, they might see TikTok is dangerous or it's perilous, or it's just another platform that they have to manage and they don't have the ability, effort, bandwidth to go in and make it happen.

Nick Clason (03:41):
But what do you do? Because honestly, it's a very different approach. Let's think about Facebook circa 2008. You would get people to like your page from your church, Hey, go like us on Facebook, click on notifications. And then what churches auto almost automatically did was they used and viewed social media as an extension of their communication strategy. So then churches, um, and organizations like churches got very, very, uh, complacent to just simply post announcements, Hey, come to the church potluck, Hey, come to the, the live nativity that we're having. Hey, come to the, uh, churchwide, you know, Frisbee golf championship. Yeah, I don't know, whatever. Right? And it's just announcement, announcement, announcement. Why? I think a couple of reasons. I think number one, um, the, the whirlwind is fierce in churches, you got an event once a week that you are hosting and pulling off.

Nick Clason (04:36):
That's not to mention any of the special events that you have all throughout the year. And so it can feel like you're in the event planning and facility rental or facility usage environment or, or space. And so those things are, um, just fierce. They're just coming at you hot every single week, sometimes multiple times a week. And so then therefore, as opposed to crafting and curating a tailor made for you social media, um, first strategy, it's just like, oh, the Johnson said they didn't know about the Frisbee golf tournament that might they follow us on Facebook. I know that you know what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna post an announcement, make sure I never miss an announcement. Here's the thing. The reality is those aren't the type of fees that we have anymore. If you as a page want to get seen, in most cases, you're gonna have to pay, and that's gonna be a sponsored thing.

Nick Clason (05:28):
It's advertisement at that point. So, uh, and you can't do that as a church if you have the budget dollars to do it. And it's advantageous to you to get more people to the Fri be golf tournament. But here's what I would argue. If you are going to start paying, um, then, then what you're looking to do is you are looking to reach a unique audience. And that's the thing that this discoverability, this fy p this four you type thing that TikTok has made famous but has since been adopted by all these other platforms. Um, that is what you have the opportunity to do. You have an opportunity to reach a different audience than those who already follow you. So what you need to know is, number one, uh, it may not be the most advantageous for you to go into your TikTok and just continue to post a video announcements from your church to the things that are aimed at your inside people.

Nick Clason (06:19):
You're gonna wanna post things. If you do, do any sort of announcement type things, um, that are hopefully able for other people that do not go to your church to discover it, to find it, and to hopefully then take a, a next step, an action step towards you or towards your church. One of the other things that makes it fun is that TikTok is all about trends. And so one of the best ways to get discovered is show up in people's FY P is do the things that are already popular on TikTok. And so grab a trend and, and, and put your church event kind of stamp on that thing. If you do want more people at the Frisbee golf tournament, then go on, find what songs are viral, find what trends are happening a lot, how do you do that? Spend time on there.

Nick Clason (07:04):
And if you spend a little bit of time on there as a consumer, um, all you gotta do is just click save, save, save, save, save. Then they'll save onto your profile, whether that be your church profile or your individual profile. Either way, you can kind of go back and create an archived kinda library of things that you don't want to forget. Then use those throughout the week as you're posting. But here's the other thing, beyond just like announcements or beyond just like events, is you now have the opportunity to sit and speak into a camera and broadcast the message of Jesus to those around you. Now, you might be thinking like, that's not a very advantageous strategy because I'm a church located in the local demographic, and I don't want to just reach people that are miles and miles away from my church and will never have the opportunity to attend.

Nick Clason (07:48):
I get that. One thing that's actually really cool that we've discovered about the TikTok algorithm is it actually does prioritize and highlight a local geographical spreading. It's a little bit like a bullseye, and so it'll pump it out to people that follow you first, and if it performs well, it'll pump it out to people in your local geographical region. And then a little bit further and a little bit further, and finally a little bit further can tell you're like all the way viral. If you're obviously all the way viral, it's not, it's gonna be reaching people yes, that are far away from your church, but know that those first couple of layers are a little bit more like localized to where your environment is. And so as we are pro uh, producing and putting more content out on these platforms, I just wanna encourage you to think a little bit differently, think less about the Johnsons who missed the announcement for the Frisbee golf tournament, and be thinking about people who may be far from God, who may not have a faith background just yet.

Nick Clason (08:42):
And how can your church help spread and share the message and hope that's found in Jesus through a simple means and a simple unpolished not, uh, super well produced or super organized selfie style cell phone based video that honestly doesn't take that long for you to do. The opportunity is amazing. I'll just say anecdotally speaking, I started doing this stupid thing on my TikTok where I try and get, um, 2000 total touchdowns from, uh, players who played in the nfl. So I saw a guy do it, and it's got this filter where it puts a team and they cycle through the teams. They go on my forehead and it stops. And then I pick a player, any player that ever played for that franchise, and then I go and I like look up how many total touchdowns they've ever had in their career. My goal is with two quarterback slots, two running back slots, three receiver slots, and two tight end slots to be able, uh, to, to come up with 2000 touchdowns.

Nick Clason (09:39):
It's honestly quite hard. And really, like you have to, you have to get the heaviest hitters, like the top of the quarterback position, top of the running back, top of the receiver to even ever get there. I've done the math, like, is this ever gonna be possible? But those videos have gone freaking bananas, like, I don't understand it. And more and more and more and more and more people are following me and, and like coming into contact with my content. And so now I'm like, Hey, wait a minute. Like now there's a little bit of an audience here. So what if I use this to start helping show, push, promote, and talk about this hybrid ministry digital ministry type of ID idea? And so it's just so fascinating to see how that algorithm works. Like once something catches, it catches and you have absolutely no rhyme or reason or understanding of why that might be the case, but if it does, it does. And so, uh, don't get discouraged. Keep producing, keep saying faithful. Um, and eventually something's gonna pop. And um, it, it's never gonna be the thing that you expect it to be, but once something does, then the things that you do want pushed the things that you do wanna put on your channel, uh, those will become more and more and more accessible, findable, adaptable to your audience.

Nick Clason (10:48):
All right, so what do we do? Uh, with the fact that we, uh, know that our cell phones, we know that our devices are smart technologies are literally flooding our brains with dopamine every single time that we open unlock, um, and light our brains up with just this hit of like, Hey, this is, this is a good thing. And how do we handle that? I wanna approach this on two fronts. Number one, how do we personally handle that? And then number two, um, what does it communicate to the people that go to our church that follow us, that we're trying to promote good, solid, um, healthy practices, not just spiritually healthy, but but physically healthy and emotionally healthy and, um, you know, healthy, uh, like purity wise, like all those types of things. Like how do we handle that is the means. TikTok, for example, probably first and foremost, which has a very addictive, uh, sort of, um, framework built into it.

Nick Clason (11:46):
Does that communicate something that we don't really want to be getting behind or that we want to get, um, that we wanna be, be promoting, uh, to the people that follow us? Well, first and foremost, you need to know, right? That like, that decision lies squarely on a couple people's shoulders, your own that your own personal convictions, um, need to be kinda weighed out and, and challenged, I would say. And also if you go to a church where it's very much frowned upon or you've even been told not to, um, you know, en engage in that sort of platform, um, then those things are gonna kind of be done. Like for you, those decisions have been made for you, especially if it's done at the church level. Um, but how do we personally handle it? I would, I would say that, um, it's probably pretty, uh, tempting to spend just a lot of time on your cell phone, uh, because you are the social media content person.

Nick Clason (12:42):
And so what are the personal boundaries that you need to put in place for that? So, um, just this week, uh, I got a, I got a new phone recently. A couple of things I've tried. I have a Google Pixel, uh, pro seven and every night, 10 o'clock, I turn my phone to a nighttime mode and it turns everything gray, which is an absolutely maddening thing to have happen when you're on your phone and all of a sudden it just flips to gray. But it does, it turns off all that, all that blue light stuff, right, that we know keeps us awake, that keeps our brains kind of like firing and stuff like that. And it hopefully calms it down. It also to me sort of signals like, yo, I start to wind, it's time to start to wind down, you know? Um, and, and it is not an enjoyable thing to look at my phone when it's gray.

Nick Clason (13:26):
The other thing I did was I put timers on certain apps, apps that I was spending, um, more time than I wanted to. You know, you get the screen time report or whatever, so you can put timers now on apps. And so as my, as, uh, in my ministry, I'm the primary content person, so I need to have those social media apps on my phone. Um, at least right now, unless, you know, I get a phone that's purchased only for the church or whatever, but like for right now, I need those on my phone, but I'm only limiting myself. It's like a half an hour a day because, uh, I can get everything I need. I can find content in the future and I can even spend a little bit of time like personally perusing social media. But if I'm on longer than an hour, cuz honestly, um, Instagram a half an hour and TikTok a half an hour, that adds up to an hour.

Nick Clason (14:10):
That's, that's a good chunk of my day, honestly, probably more than I need it to be, you know? Um, and so I may even evaluate that even after talking into this podcast here and, and back that down a little bit. But here's the thing, the reality is this, is that there are tools built into the phones and the devices that, um, that will help you maintain those boundaries. What, what then it really comes down to where the rubber really does meet the road is are you going to honor the, your own boundaries that you at one point in time set for yourself? Or are you gonna break them? Because you can of course go in and change the time or turn it off, snooze it, whatever. Um, but I would challenge you, I would challenge you to do that because we know that, um, it is not better for us to be people that are reliant upon technology.

Nick Clason (14:57):
Technology is a tool. And I would argue that, um, I'm very passionate about this hybrid, um, approach, this digital ministry sort of, um, phenomenon. But the reality is this is, it is simply a tool to share the message and hope of Jesus. And that's it. And if it is abused, then that is, that's not obviously the goal. And so, uh, it's simply a tool. It's simply a vehicle. And you know what? One day there's gonna be something that's more effective. Back when the Apostle Paul was writing the method and the means were letter writing, nowadays we don't really write letters. It would not be that effective for me to write a letter to a 15 year old to try and tell them about the gospel of Jesus. But it might be effective for me to post a 5, 10, 15 second, uh, video that talks about Jesus that they can, um, check out and that we then give them another kind of opportunity to then take a next step and to learn and dive deeper into the message and hope that's found in Jesus.

Nick Clason (15:49):
And so, uh, then that leads me to the next question is the means the message. And I think, yeah, that is a dangerous and potentially very slippery slope. And that's again, something that you have to sort of navigate and wrestle to the ground at your own personal context in which you serve. But if we are wanting to reach people and if we are using this platform to reach people, is it a tool that can be harnessed for good? Absolutely. It absolutely can be used and harnessed for good. Is there evil in it? Sure. Is there bad stuff that you can find on the internet? Absolutely. Is there, uh, evil, evil and and danger when you do, uh, an overnight lock in with a bunch of teenagers and the potential risk for promiscuity and misbehavior and drugs, alcohol and stuff rises also? Yeah. Is it dangerous to get in the car every day and drive to work?

Nick Clason (16:44):
Yeah, it is, right? Like, so there are dangers and so you personally need to be smart. You need to model good digital hygiene. And I would also argue that we should be teaching our teenagers how to do that as well. We should be using that and viewing that as a discipleship moment to help craft and shape them. Like, Hey, how would Jesus handle technology? And um, I think he, I think he would, I think he would use it to exalt and glorify God the father. And honestly, that's what I want to do as well. But as I'm doing that, I don't wanna lose myself. I don't want to become addicted. Um, and I know, like I said, I just got a new phone. I know how addicting it has become. And so that's why I wanna put in more safeguards, more practices for me, uh, to navigate and handle those things well.

Nick Clason (17:33):
Or I wanna talk about the best church YouTube strategy that I can think of. If you don't wanna go all out on a bunch of crazy gear, um, I would recommend this. I would recommend, and I talked about this a couple episodes ago, but I would recommend pre-filing your YouTube, um, your message content. So everything that you deliver every single week, sit down, get in front of the camera that is on the back of your cell phone that is sitting in your pocket right now that you're probably using to listen to or watch this video, okay? And then I would buy one, one primary piece of equipment that you need to get this thing started. A road video mic, m e c usbc, directional microphone for smartphones. Now, if you don't have a USBC connection, then just google the connection that you do have on your Apple iPhone pot, probably because you don't have an Android.

Nick Clason (18:24):
Um, and use that shotgun mic in a controlled environment to have someone sit down in front of a set that looks nice, that has some decent lighting. I guess another, uh, potential piece of equipment that you may need is, um, a tripod to hold your phone up to aim at you or whatever, but prepare your content that you're gonna preach and prepare and teach in front of your congregants, whether it be adult students, whatever your context and deliver it before you get up on the stage to deliver it to the live room. Why? Well, two things. Number one, unless you already have the infrastructure for live streaming, then if you do, I would ignore this part, but if you do not, which, um, I talk to a lot of youth pastors who their churches may be live streaming, but they themselves are not live streaming.

Nick Clason (19:10):
And I would argue that if there is a demographic that's worth, uh, putting content out to it is teenagers, it's Gen Z and soon to be, by the way, cuz they're right on the cusp. Generation alpha, okay? And so we should be trying to reach the natives, our, our teenagers, gen Z Alfa in their native tongue. And that's video that's digital. Now the thing is, you, if you're a youth pastor specifically, you're probably not meeting in the main room where you have access to all the live broadcast equipment. And if you are a church that you are the main pastor and you don't have that equipment yet, then I don't think that that's an issue. Cuz here's a couple of things that we know. The best performing YouTube videos fall somewhere between 12 and 18 minutes. So if you get up and you preach a 35 minute sermon and you post that entire thing to YouTube, that's not exactly, um, optimal for YouTube.

Nick Clason (20:03):
And so what you can do when you pre-fill is you can adapt it so that what you're preaching, you're still preaching the same content, but you're pairing it down so that it fits into that 12 to 18 minute video. It's gonna perform best on YouTube that way. The other thing that it does is it lets you, um, focus on the camera. If you're watching this right now, you're watching me focus directly into the camera. I'm not preaching to a room of people behind me. You have no idea that behind me is, um, a giant bean bag and a chair and a dresser and a baby's crib. Um, that's not what you see, right? You're seeing what I want you to see, which is myself and the chair that I'm sitting in. The reality is that you can do all that. You can create a set, you can create something that looks kind of nice, something that's gonna catch a watcher's eye on, on a platform like YouTube.

Nick Clason (20:47):
And you can speak directly into the camera when you just rip off your live stream, you're catering to the room. I remember when this happened to me one time, I was preaching a large, uh, multi megachurch from the broadcast location. And um, after I got done, the feedback I got was, Hey, pay more attention to the camera, right? Like, when I got up there, my natural propensity was to preach to the people in the room, which is what most of our natural propensities are, but they had a camera in the back and they were live streaming it. And so they're like, don't forget, you need to look down the barrel of that camera. That wasn't a natural experience for me. And if you're gonna start live streaming, that's probably also not a very natural experience for you, I would argue. Um, or at least I, I would make the bet that that's the case, right?

Nick Clason (21:32):
And so what I want to propose and what I want to promote is I want you to just consider and think about what would it look like if you pre-filed your stuff. It would help you, uh, get it to the time and length that it needs to be to perform best on YouTube. And then it would also, uh, help you focus on the audience that's right there on the other side of the camera. The third thing that it does, and this is just um, something that I've, I've personally been experiencing learning and using is, um, it helps me get familiar with my content. So by the time I do step foot on the stage, I'm actually much more comfortable with the content cuz I've already dealt with it. I've already been in it, I've already delivered it one time. Um, and so then that way all I need to do is get up in and deliver it again, live to the room.

Nick Clason (22:18):
But I'm not as, um, I'm not as tied to my notes like I maybe would be otherwise because I've gone through 'em. I'm aware I, you know, I mean like, I get the flow, I get the rhythm. And so if you're a primary communicator, you, you probably understand that being more familiar with your notes than, as opposed to being less familiar. And I mean, a lot of pastors, a lot of good preachers, they do sit down, they do spend some time pouring over their notes before they get up live on the the stage. Why not have just one of those times? It's you doing it to a camera. So then what that does with the, the nice microphone, it gives you good audio, decent video. Even if you don't have the most up to date smartphone. There's a lot of really, really good, um, there's a lot of really, really good, uh, camera phones out there that take really good videos.

Nick Clason (23:02):
And here's the thing, the reality is this video's probably gonna be consumed on a phone, you know what I mean? So, uh, you're shooting it on a phone to another phone, I don't think that's gonna be a gigantic deal. Um, don't let your creative department tell you otherwise. Uh, and then, uh, what that does is that then also helps you as a communicator get another shot at it. So that's my personal right now. Favorite YouTube strategy for 2022, 2023 and beyond. Hey, once again, thank you guys so much for hanging out on this episode. I cannot believe we are into the twenties already. Uh, had had fun having Kerry on the last couple. Um, been fun having a couple guests. Probably gonna try to get a few more guests here and there, but love having this, love having these conversations. Appreciate you all man. It would be amazing if you could give us a, like a rating, um, subscribe so that you get this delivered for free every time to your inbox. Check us out at hybrid ministry, um, on, uh, our hybridministry.xyz on website. Like I said at the top of the show, we have free transcripts that we provide to you for every single episode. Hopefully you find those, um, helpful. Go check them out. And until next time, talk to you later. See you.

Follow us on Twitter at http://www.twitter.com/hybridministry or online at http://www.hybridministry.xyz

TIMECODES
00:00-01:58 Intro
01:58-07:50 How to Bridge the Generation Gap between Gen Xers, Millennials and Gen Z
07:50-12:53 How to use digital to enhance in-person ministry
12:53-18:57 Are small groups the best new form for outreach?
18:57-19:34 Outro

SHOWNOTES
https://careynieuwhof.com/episode527/

TRANSCRIPT
Nick Clason (00:01):
What is up everybody? Welcome to another episode of the Hybrid Ministry podcast. Once again, another solo pod. Matt got him from Spain, um, and he wasn't sure about like his computer situation, but he got it. Uh, um, he's got one, he doesn't have a login yet for it, so that's a little bit problematic. But, uh, you know, once he starts getting settled in and stuff like that, he said he should be good to go. So, uh, one of my all time favorite podcasts is the Carry and New H Leadership podcast has subscribe to it, listen to it. Um, I, I wanna say every week, but it's not like on demand listening per se, it's more just like, Oh, I'll get to it whenever something else isn't there. Um, but I'm a pretty regular and consistent listener. He headed, uh, Dr. Tim Elmore on one of his most recent podcasts, talking about Generation Z.

Nick Clason (00:57):
So, just got me thinking. Let's talk, let's chat Gen Z today. Let's talk a little bit about that. Let's talk a little bit about some of the distinctives between them and some of the older, different, newer generations. So that's what we're gonna talk about today. Um, hopefully, I don't know, I don't wanna promise anything. Maybe next week, Matt will be back. Um, started, we started talking and circling around the drain about what it would look like to schedule. He, uh, he's in Colorado now. I'm in Texas, and so he's an hour earlier. So, you know, someone's getting up early. It's probably me, I'm not gonna lie. But anyway, uh, that is, that's what is, today we're gonna talk about Generation Gap. What's the difference between Boomers Xers, millennials, and Generation Z? We're gonna talk about how you can use digital to enhance your in-person experiences. And finally, we're gonna talk about how small is the new outreach plan and method that Generation Z is interested in. So let's go.

Nick Clason (02:00):
All right, what's up, everybody? Uh, let's talk generation Gap. Um, how many of you have ever, uh, wanted to work from home, um, versus work in the office? I think almost all of us are interested in the hybrid work environment type of thing, but most of us work for a corporation, for a man that requires us to be in the office. Um, think about this. Um, I have worked in a couple of churches where there is a paid for gigantic storage server, and that storage server is only available if you are on the church wifi network. That is an office mentality. Compare that to, you know, two terabytes of Google Drive storage for $6 a year that you can get, you know, um, or a Dropbox office account or, uh, 20 terabytes of Google Drive storage or, you know, any of the other numerable cloud-based storage options.

Nick Clason (03:05):
You know, it's funny because like, I think this, this, this, uh, depiction can be most best portrayed through the comparison between Microsoft and Google. Okay? So, uh, let's just do some comparisons. Microsoft, they started it. They were a part of the office culture. Every office in the world in America has Microsoft Office. Every one of us is forced to use Microsoft Office or Microsoft Outlook or something like that. Okay? And so you have those products, you have those things. They were the industry standard, then comes along Google, what's the difference? Well, everything in Google is browser based. That's so, that was so foreign to Microsoft. Everything was programmatic. Everything was, um, something that you had to install, put on your hard drive, okay? And so then Google begins to compete with Microsoft, right? So they create Google Docs, Google Sheets, Google Slides. Guys, I'm telling you, as a youth pastor, I have teenagers who don't even know how to open Microsoft product.

Nick Clason (04:08):
But here's the thing, they don't actually need to, like, there are, there are just ever so slightly a few limitations between a Google, like, I think the biggest one I see is the Google Slides and Microsoft PowerPoint, but not much. I've had kids who have like, let teach or whatever, build full on presentations in Google Slides, and then they just send it to me. It's a usable, it is a presentable, it is a, uh, it is a, a product that has now competed with, with Microsoft's office, right? Microsoft's office has since tried to adapt and change. And so they've tried to create documents, word, Excel, and the like that you can edit, um, as you go so that like multiple contributors can view as those edits are taking place. Here's the thing, the reality is that Google is a superior product, and we all know it.

Nick Clason (05:01):
My favorite story about this is last summer, um, at the church I was at before they had switched everybody over to Microsoft Teams as a collaboration method, which teams was fine from a chat perspective. It's like slack light in my personal opinion. But, uh, what we would put all of our storage for like our camp messages in a Microsoft team's folder that was built through SharePoint, which is Microsoft's thing. Not one drive not to be confused with one drive again, so, so clear. I know. Um, and so you, I I, I would make a Word document in teams with a link to a Google doc, and then I would do alma editing in Google Docs. Why did I do that? A because it was very redundant to build something in Google Docs, which is where I was doing it, which was always evolving, always updating, always auto saving, versus having to copy and paste that over into Microsoft Teams every single time.

Nick Clason (05:57):
And then remember, Oh, yeah, I gotta go over there and update that in Microsoft Teams if anyone wants to see it. So, um, I said, everything in Google Docs, there's a story of a, a kid, um, in Ohio who worked at a painting company. Um, this is, this is from the, the Timmel Moore interview. And he says that he worked for a painting company and he posted a TikTok of himself mixing some paint. No big deal. But he got like, I think over a million views on it and, and, or I'm not sure, a million followers, something big, something in the millions. And so what he did, you know what he did? He went to his executives and he said, Hey, I think we're missing out on an untapped market. Um, and I think that, you know, he presented this whole pitch and he, he was surprised.

Nick Clason (06:42):
You know why? Because not only did they not go with his idea, they fired him because they said, You're not working on your, your your bo you're stealing from company time. This is the difference we're talking about between the generation gap, the office culture versus the hybrid work environment. And I think both sides have valid agreements. I think that the office side, like, Hey, gotta get there, gotta get your work done, gotta work hard, gotta be reliable, gotta be dependable. But I think that also there are new innovative ideas. And this painter guy, he lost his job, picked up, move from Ohio down to Florida, started his own painting company. It's like that's what's gonna happen, uh, as opposed to people adapting and conforming to old school ways of, of doing things. Instead, they're just gonna pick up and they're gonna leave. So how do you keep good, meaningful talent? How do you reach Generation Z that just thinks categorically, fundamentally differently? And how do you use their creativity that they have and the, the way that they see the world and the way that they, uh, interact with online and digital and the people around them? How can you use that to your advantage?

Nick Clason (07:57):
All right, What about using digital means to enhance in-person gatherings? When we all got shut down for Covid, uh, I think everybody had to turn to digital only as the option. And how do we replicate and reproduce what make what's happening in the room or in the building or in in room programming? How do we turn that into a completely fully digital experience? And the fact of the matter is, you can't, you cannot replicate and reproduce face to face engagement. Um, but you also, and the same is true on the flip side. You cannot replicate what happens online in the room. So let's use, um, my, my marriage with my wife, for example. We have a relationship, obviously we have two kids, so obviously, um, we live in a house, we do life together, like all the things. Uh, and she's at home. We'll text her out the day.

Nick Clason (08:57):
There'll be times where, uh, she'll call me on video and be like, Hey, what do you think about this? Give me your opinions on that. Um, we'll do all those types of things, right? Uh, and there's even been times where for extended weeks, either one of us is apart from the other. I mean, when we're part, like, that's, that's hard. Like that is a challenging moment for our relationship. You know what I mean? So what, uh, cuz eventually we, like, we want to be back together. So the same is true for your churches. Like what happens in a small group setting, one on one living life together in community, um, in Ko Ania Fellowship as the Greek word is family carrying one another's burdens, praying for one another, supporting one another, encouraging one another, admonishing one another. Those things can happen digitally, but they mostly and best happen together when you're knee and knee eyeball to eyeball, able to give a hug to one another.

Nick Clason (10:04):
So how do you use what is going on online with what is also happening in the room? So how can you use Instagram to be like a recap to post pictures, to post reels, as we've talked about on this podcast multiple times to do live voting. Like one of my favorite things is to have a live vote that's taking place in Instagram stories while programming or while you're, um, in room experience is taking place. You can use some of those things to, to drive up drum up engagement. What about TikTok? What about devotionals that you put on there that are tied to the most recent message or recaps that that flesh out the most recent idea, message, whatever. Um, another one, one of my all time favorites is what about reading the Bible? You version plans. What about doing that together? If you're in a small group, what about, uh, being in a a bible study, a you version plan together.

Nick Clason (11:06):
So what if you're reading at the same time, uh, throughout the week and then you come together in person to discuss it? See, these are all ways that we create this mesh of, of real life that something is happening digitally, but it's not looking to supplant or replace what's happening online, but it's looking to strategically come in alongside it and enhance and raise the bar on the overall experience. You know, I just got like a, a brand new, uh, the brand new Google Pixel phone, man. It is a, it is the biggest phone I've ever held in my hand. Like my thumb hurts now because I am not used to the reach that is required on me. But like when I open the home screen, it has the weather and then the first thing it has is it says, um, uh, projected commute, time to work, typical delays, moderate traffic.

Nick Clason (11:57):
Like that's pulling directly off of Google Maps because it knows where I am and where I live, and it knows where I work and what it takes to get there, right? That's an example of a hybrid enmeshment. How can the church offer more of that? I find so often that the defacto answer for the church is come online or not Come online, come, come on Sunday, see you nine o'clock and 10 30 and that's it, right? Like, hey, like, like you got an amazing tagline. Like, we wanna reach all people for all generations to know, follow, seek, and become great disciples of Jesus Christ. That's great. If it's catchy, better, whatever. And then what's the actions of, what's the call to action immediately out of that come to church? How can you use the digital resources that you have around you to enhance that, um, and to create moments where students, people, your congregants can connect with you and God throughout the other days of the week?

Nick Clason (13:05):
All right? I'm wondering if small is the new outreach method. When I was growing up in youth group, the outreach method was let's rent out a laser tag place. Let's, um, charge everybody five bucks. And for every friend you bring, it's a dollar off. And so if you bring five friends, you and all your friends get to go for a hundred percent completely free. You get unlimited video games, unlimited pizza, unlimited soda as much as you want. That was an amazing outreach event when I was a kid. Or yuck night, we get to throw, uh, food at 500 of our least closest friends and strangers, and we're walking away with mashed potatoes in our ears and we have to go home and we have to shower and take care of it and all this stuff, right? Like, what if those are not the most effective outreach tools anymore?

Nick Clason (13:57):
A recent study on Gen Z, um, and I, I may have referenced this before, I think I probably did from Crossroads Church in Cincinnati, they were able to conduct a survey of students that were still under the age of 18. So a lot of our Gen Z data is of Gen Zers, who are over the age of 18 because of consent reasons, but crossroads through their data department at their church, were able to survey the kids and granted in their church, So this is, you know, regional Cincinnati, um, but they're 76% of their non-churched generation Z students under the age of 18. So kids that are like viable eligible for their, uh, youth group or whatever, 76% of the not connected to church students said that they preferred smaller gatherings versus large parties. Our default I feel often in church, especially in youth ministry, is how are we gonna reach people?

Nick Clason (14:53):
Let's throw a big party. I mean that, gosh, it is so ingrained in me, like it is so hard to even break that. Like next week we're having a costume party. And so I'm thinking all the things, I'm pulling out all the stops, I'm doing all the hype. But the reality is like, how do we create more warm and more intimate environments for students? Because we, we sat down, uh, with our upperclassmen and our student ministry and we asked them like, um, we talked about what Wednesday nights looked like, and we said the purpose of that is for a lost person to come. And they're like, Yeah, but, but my friend wouldn't come to this. And it's like, first of all, a gut punch. Boom. Oh, but b like, okay, then what? Then why are we doing this? We're doing this because some version of a teenager's friend from 10, 15, 20 years ago, my friend from when I was in high school, would've come to the programming that I'm producing, but maybe not our current students and, and church leader hear me?

Nick Clason (15:52):
Because you're like, Well, yeah, well, I'm in, I'm in, you know, I do adult ministry, or I'm the lead pastor, I'm executive pastor, whatever. Like, great. However, Generation Z is not just teenagers. They are 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23 years old. And, and hear me when I say this, younger millennials are also in that same age, um, demographic. And in that same way of thinking, they're looking for more warm opportunities. I'll give you an example. Just start a new church. Uh, and their moniker is we're all about connect groups. We're all about connection, connection, connect, connection. Getting a connect group. The best way to take the next step in your faith is getting a connect group. Great. I agree with that. Every single stop of ministry I've been in along the way, I've been in some form of a small group, me and my wife, it's a thing we do.

Nick Clason (16:41):
We've made it a priority. We've woven it into our schedule. We've dug deep paid for babysitters, you know, done whatever we needed to do to make that happen. Okay? Well connect groups are on Sunday morning, which is also when student ministry programming is happening. And I'm, you know, responsible to be in the room for that. So if I want to connect as a staff member, there really is, there really is no way under the, the current existing framework of the church or my wife can go, but I can't. But if she wants to serve, then we're not gonna be able to go together, right? Like, I am looking for connection. I'm looking for something. I, and so if I'm asking, right, like, hey, are there any groups that that don't meet on campus, um, or that don't meet on Sunday morning? And the answer is yes, but they're unsanctioned.

Nick Clason (17:35):
Like they're not, they don't fall under the framework of the connect group strategy. They're prob they're not resourced the same way. So like, where do I find that small, like that more intimate type of gathering? And again, if, if you're, um, older and you have grown up in church in a while, like what you're probably hearing is okay, yeah, that's what you want, You're a pastor. But what's fascinating is we're hearing from our high schoolers that that's what they want to bring their friends to. Maybe not the kumbaya session, but like when their connect group does a barbecue, like they'll invite them to that when their connect group goes bowling, they'll invite them to that. When their connect group goes to laser tag, they'll invite them to that, and that's gonna be 10, 15, 20, 25 kids. But when the entire youth ministry goes to laser tag 500 kids, they're like, Nah, it's not me.

Nick Clason (18:28):
I'm out not interested. And so how do we create smaller, more warm environments? And guess what, guys? Guess what, Guess what? That's easier to reproduce than the large scale of it. You know, I think for years, especially as a youth pastor at smaller churches in smaller environments, what I would do is I would look to the big guys and I'd be like, Well, once I get there, I will have made it. And then all the kids will come flocking. And, and the irony, what I realized is that's honestly been the exact opposite or the bigger it's gotten, the more challenging it's been to try and figure out how to create and make it small, warm environment. Hey, once again guys, thank you for hanging out with me today. We are on Twitter @hybridministry. We are online hybridministry.xyz because of course, hybrid ministry.com was taken not being used, but taken. So check us out on there. You can get show notes. We have full transcripts. We provide and pay for that every single week. So I hope that you're taking advantage of that. And until next time, talk to you later. See ya!

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TIMECODES
00:00-01:15 Announcement and FREE giveaway
01:15-5:26 The New Normal of Church
5:26-13:03 Best Church Website Practices
13:03-15:55 Should our Church get an app?
15:55-20:00 How can our church use YouVersion?
20:00-24:57 Facebook best practices
24:57-29:38 Instagram best practices
29:38-32:00 TikTok best practices
32:00-34:42 How about Discord?
34:42-36:51 Texting Best Practices
36:52-38:13 Outro and Conclusion

TRANSCRIPT
Nick Clason (00:00):
Think that they were gonna, uh, keep it going. I thought that I thought that was gonna be it.

Matthew Johnson (00:07):
Yeah. That one more season left.

Nick Clason (00:09):
Yeah. So it like when they did, which it's like the first season that they've never resolved, you know? Yep.

Matthew Johnson (00:15):
They said like, it was the first time they've never done that, so

Nick Clason (00:18):
Yeah. Well, Hey everybody. Welcome back to, uh, hybrid ministry, the podcast. I am your host, Nick Clason alongside my good friend. Matt Johnson. How you doing this morning, Matt?

Matthew Johnson (00:34):
Doing good, man. I can't complain got a cup of coffee and uh, it's a beautiful Friday morning.

Nick Clason (00:39):
Yeah, we're ready to roll. You know, what's so fun. Uh we were in a meeting yesterday about this exact topic, like in our, in our church talking about the new normal of church, you know, a little bit. Um, yeah, which I think is, is interesting cuz uh, I can't remember how you said it, man. It was so good. You were saying like the way that we've done church for so long, it, it has to shift and it has to shift into a hybrid type of world. What, like what do you mean by that? What did you, what were, what were kind of your like thoughts going into that statement?

Matthew Johnson (01:16):
Yeah, so we, the church as a whole has had two main philosophies over the last, let's just say 60 years, it's gone back obviously much further than that, but uh, here it's been straight to seat. What I mean by that it's like find someone on the street, they can come to church and they can take a seat in for Sunday service. And then probably since the internet age, I'd say probably in the last 15 years, maybe 20, I, that might be pushing it, let's say 15 to 10. Cause the church is, um, always a little bit on the back. End of everything is sight to see. And, um, what that means is like, Hey, you come to our website and then you can come to our church, but now we're in this new world, which what the heck is next for us. like, uh, what is, what is post COVID look like? What does this hybrid approach? And we know the church has to evolve in some fashion just based off of where technology is going. No matter how much we all say that we hate technology, this is the world we live in now. So that's really what I've been, just trying to figure out like where should we evolve?

Nick Clason (02:29):
Yeah. And I like, one of the best examples I ever heard of, of hybrid was like a department store. Um, I was, and, and I, it came to fruition for me a couple weeks ago and I was walking through, Lowe's like physically walking through the Lowe's department store. I was in person, all the things, but I couldn't find what I was looking for. And so as a typical millennial, instead of stopping and asking an associate where to find the thing, I downloaded the Lowe's app on my phone, searched it. And it told me exactly where to go. Um, yep. And so I used a digital tool in a physical environment and I think that's sort of what we're talking about is this, this hybrid approach. And I don't think either one of us is necessarily advocating for getting rid of everything. That's why I really like this word, this word hybrid, because it's, it's not either or it's both and

Matthew Johnson (03:27):
Exactly. Yep. And

Nick Clason (03:29):
So that's, that's what I wanna talk about today is what, what specifically can we do? Like let's get nitty gritty, get down to some of the, like specifics of some of these platforms and some of these best practices. And I think, you know, just shooting straight, like we have ideas and we have data to back up some of this stuff, but we don't have all the answers. And, and I don't think any church is really hitting it, you know, bating a thousand and hitting all these things a hundred percent outta the park either, you know? So like, yeah, same is true for us. So these are just things in our brains that are rattling around and things we wanna, you know, kind of try where we wanna start. So.

Matthew Johnson (04:09):
Yep. Absolutely.

Nick Clason (04:10):
All right. So let's just talk through like, um, LA on episode one, we talked a little bit about this. Um, but like if, if you have nothing, you know, um, is the best place to start, Matt, would you say like a website, like getting your own, your own domain, your own place that, that you own, that you're not on like borrowed social media space or anything like that, your own website, is that the best place to start? And then if so, um, what do you like, what are some best practices as it pertains to web these days?

Matthew Johnson (04:44):
Yeah, so I would say the best website could be one of the best places to start. Uh, I'm not gonna say it's like a blanket statement. Like everyone should start there, but I will say if you don't have a website and you have the means and, um, energy to make the website, you definitely need to get on that. And, uh, websites are so easy to make right now if you like square space and WICS, you need even WordPress plugins, like Elementor, um, make building a website very easy where you don't need to hire developers and have a huge upfront cost anymore. Um, your website, like we're saying earlier in the episode is, was originally like this, you visit our site and then you come to the church mm-hmm so site to see, um, it was more of probably a front porch approach, um, to the church, uh, as in, okay, I'm, I've entered into your fray and now I'm gonna come all the way in your house.

Matthew Johnson (05:51):
Yeah. The website now can function as multiple. And the first thing it's gonna function through for is I I'll call it your window. Um, and that's the sense that I'm just viewing in to what your church holds. And then I will decide just from the viewing in, if I even want to attend online, if I wanna check out your social, if I want to check out your campus. Um, so those are all the questions that you're your first time person is gonna be faced with. Um, especially as you're trying to reach lost people, the more approachable your website is the better because you want people to not feel intimidated to come check you out. So when I think of a website, the first thing I always tell everybody is 90% of what you wanna put on your website. You don't need to put on your website.

Matthew Johnson (06:46):
um, the reason I say that is cuz everyone thinks they just need to put everything in the kitchen sink on their website. Um, and Donald Miller who, uh, is just kind of become a marketing guru, um, has really coined this term of like story branding, your website, story, story, branding in general, your, um, your church, whatever your company is. But I always love his idea of the website, which is a lot of the junk that you put on your website belongs to the junk or on your website. Hmm. So what that means is like, it all be, you can put it on your website, but it should not be easily accessible and it should be at the bottom of the website where if you wanna find it, you can find it, but that's not what you're trying, you're there for. So when you go to someone's website, the first thing I should see is what you want me to do.

Matthew Johnson (07:38):
Um, and that's going to vary church church. So, uh, at our church it's uh, Hey, attend online right now or, um, here's the church services mm-hmm um, is that the best course of action? I don't know. Um, there's a lot of philosophies, uh, and really you should only have one decision. So if you're whole idea says hyper approach, I would just say a 10 0 9 should be your first call to action. If you had that capability mm-hmm so you gotta simplify your website, get rid of the junk on your website and then make your website purposeful. So what are you trying to tell people as they learn about you? Like I said, your window, it's like a window shopping. So it is really easy, Nick, for you or I to go and Google type in Christian Church near me and find probably 50 churches within 20 miles of us.

Matthew Johnson (08:39):
Mm-hmm and we can go and look at all these churches, all their beliefs, who they are, where they're at, what they're teaching and we can window shop used to not be like that. You used to have to go into church or the window shopping was more, oh, these people have this service time, so I'll go check them out. now I can see everything about you. Uh, I can see everything your pastor has probably ever said. So you need to be very cognitive of that as you're building out your window, your website on what is it that you're trying to communicate about you about your church?

Nick Clason (09:16):
Yeah. And then like the, the, the nerdier you get into that, right. There's things like search engine optimization, words and titling and, and things like that. That you're also gonna want to start to explore at least get a handle on as you're building those things out. Right?

Matthew Johnson (09:34):
Yeah, absolutely. So then you can start once you define what you want your website to be, you can really get nitty gritty with, um, how we're gonna title everything and how you're gonna lay it all out. Um, what the proper course of action is, how you leading me to those calls to action. That's all super important stuff that you'll like, like a story brand is a great option to kinda learn how to do that. Um, but also just being able to like use Google trends, you just go to Google trends.com. You can type in like words that people are searching. And if you really wanna start like investing in some stuff, you can look at like SCM rush or href, which are both about a hundred dollars a month where you can actually look up search terms that people are using for your website specifically, and also what Google is weighing highest.

Matthew Johnson (10:27):
Hmm. Um, and what that's gonna do is, uh, if you, if you're like, okay, we're at the point that our church is growing, but we want to grow more and we want to reach new people. That's your best option to do that? Cause Google it, it's wild to think about what Google did. So, um, back in the days of when Yahoo was around, Yahoo was literally ran by librarians. Like you had a room full of librarians that would archive pages. So you'd go to Yahoo, you type in, um, churches near me or whatever, or, uh, um, looking for, you know, a Christian sermon. And it's only what the librarians have gotten through and archived. Um, that's to obviously change now, but that was back in the early days of the internet. And then Google came around and said, Hey, we're gonna make this automated through search terms through our search engine. And those will be weighed differently. And, uh, algorithm is constantly changing. So the best way for you to find out, to get more recognition is for you to find out what people in your area are looking for. Um, and then just make your website, your content targeted towards them.

Nick Clason (11:41):
Hmm. Yeah. Okay. So, so that's website, um, let's talk about app apps. Yep. So, you know, like if you and I are using our cell phones, most of us are interacting with people on our cell phones, through various apps. And so do you think that that's a platform worth looking into worth investing in for a church? I mean, it's, it feels like it would be a pretty hefty cost. And then, you know, if it's not a hefty cost, that means that you're probably getting a pretty basic, uh, service from a company that your app is gonna look, um, much like any of the other apps that are out there. And, uh, it's gonna look, it's gonna be very similar to, to your church's website. So couldn't, we just use a very like phone friendly, mobile friendly website. That's gonna, that's gonna play well on people's cell phones, as opposed to trying to get them to adopt an entire app or like, talk, talk me through this. What, what should we do with that? Should we do anything with that?

Matthew Johnson (12:45):
Yeah. Great, great question. So, um,

Matthew Johnson (12:52):
Yes, I will say the best course of Ash action is to just make, um, a mobile friendly website. Uh, so yeah, my professional opinion, the app should really be an interactive way to engage with your church, your congregation, your content, whatever it looks like. So it's not a front porch anymore. Like you're involved, like you're, I want people to come to our church and download our app so they can be as directly tied with everything we have going on. Hmm. But that's not for the wide people. So I'm not going out to people on Google or on our Facebook pages and going, Hey, download our app when I'm just trying to get them to come check out who we are like, that is, that's a deeper step. Like I'm asking you to put me on your phone forever. Mm-hmm I would say, yeah, mobile friendly website is the best place to start.

Matthew Johnson (13:55):
Then let's say you are a larger church and you're really trying to figure out what's next for your digital platform and what you should do online. Then I think the app is a great course of action of different things you can do on it that are not what your website does. mm-hmm so that's the key. The app cannot just be an extension of your website. Just have a mobile website at that point. Like your app should be, Hey, this is where all our small groups are facilitated at. Hey, this is, has a interactive map for us or, Hey, this is where all our content is. Or we do our prayer studies and there are Bible studies that'ss own world that is not directly correlated to your website.

Nick Clason (14:36):
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Uh, so moving on this, one's one of my favorites. I'm not sure if I've optimized it yet, but as a youth pastor, this is one of the things I love to try and, uh, both create, uh, but also challenge our like small group leaders and students to participate in. Uh, it's the U version Bible app, you know, they have a, they've built in some kind of social media components to it recently. Um, and one of my favorite things to do, and it was a thing that, you know, I, I think, uh, really came to a height during the pandemic and stuff was reading like devotional plans together. And I thought that was a great way to, to do spiritual practice in the other, um, hours of the week that weren't like our programming time for like small groups to do together, whatever, uh, obviously, you know, like the people at life church, they're the ones that put you version together and are continuing to run it and everything. Uh, are there any things that we can do as a church to optimize those better? Um, or, you know, think about them creatively to, uh, get our people to be en engaging with the Bible, uh, in that way, through that platform.

Matthew Johnson (15:54):
Yeah, absolutely. I love you version and what the team at life church has been able to kinda accomplish with that platform. Um, I think a great use of your version is finding content that is relevant to whatever you have going on in your church or as you, and I know if you wanna start getting, you know, a little crazier developing content for you version. So, um, both are great avenues, but I would just start with curating content on new version that it can actually facilitate conversations and you can create prayer request in it and, uh, um, be going through studies together. And it's just a good way to nurture and continue to have people think about your church other than on a Sunday. Yeah. And that's a big key of everything we're talking about is how do we get people to, you know, be engaged with church with your church, not more than one day a week, and as we know, more than one day a month, so,

Nick Clason (17:00):
Right. Yeah. Yeah. That, and that's interesting that you say that whole thing about, uh, once a month, that is, that's what we're seeing, right? One in every four, uh, an average attender or an engaged attender is attending one in every four weeks, which to your point is what you're saying is one, one once a month, which is why I think this hybrid approach is so like important. Like it's such an important thing because if we are only discipling people on the weeks that they attend church, that's 12 times a year, 12 hours a year, there is nothing in my life that I care about that I'm only giving 12 hours a year to yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. And so if faith is important and faith matters, it needs to happen more often. And yeah, like all of this right is an ownership step that we need to try and help facilitate for those people that are attending our church.

Nick Clason (18:00):
But the reality is is that you and I, as people who work at churches, uh, we've only made that priority a thing that we do once a week for our weekend services, you know, and we're just trying to, to challenge everyone to think outside of that box. Exactly. And to say, okay, great. Like we're already doing that. We're not throwing that baby out with the bath water, but what are the other ways in which we can disciple our people through the means and the, the avenues that they're already using through their cell phones and through online and through digital. So I think in a, in most cases now I wanna talk social media for a minute because in most cases, I think when people come to this idea of hybrid or digital, that's the first thing, right. That comes to everyone's brain is like, oh, so you're Spanish again, social media. Um, and that's true to an extent. Um, and so let's talk through some social platform. So the first one is, is Facebook, what is best practice on Facebook?

Matthew Johnson (19:04):
So Facebook you're gonna be reaching people that are probably 35 and older mm-hmm , um, usually, um, it's actually probably even older now it's more in your forties or older. So if your congregation's a little bit older, like that's a great platform to start navigating on. And what the real big use of Facebook I can see now is the Facebook groups, which we had talked about. Mm-hmm , um, in a earlier, earlier episode. Um, but really just getting some Facebook's groups going that you can actually create community that have people interacting with each other, and it's not a sole reliance on you. Um, also we just know Facebook has some massive plans with, you know, becoming meta and what web three looks like. So I just think it's always gonna be a part of our Zeki, no matter what. Um, and I think it's gonna probably morph into more of this web three platform, which then you start getting crazy with like virtual reality and, you know, the metaverse and stuff. But I, I would not worry about that yet. Um, I would just stick to, let's create some Facebook groups. Let's do, uh, let's have a strategy behind when we're posting content and why we post content. Um, I always say start with the why of what you're doing. Um, and if you're just using Facebook to promote stuff, stop doing that. ,

Nick Clason (20:30):

Matthew Johnson (20:31):
Just, let's be, uh, more creative and cognitive, uh, what people want and promotional stuff is just gonna fall in deaf ears. So, uh,

Nick Clason (20:40):
So let's, let's, let's actually talk about that for just a second, because I think that's, that is a, a standard default for a lot of churches is, um, just create, uh, like it is, it has like another billboard or another avenue to announce your things. Um, so if you're not, if we're in the event business as a church a little bit, like, you know, it's not events more spiritual than an event, but yeah. Like we're hosting an in person thing, uh, that feels a lot like an event. What are we, what should we be doing then on social media, on Facebook, if we're not posting it as events, what are things that we can be putting on there that people are actually gonna want to engage with?

Matthew Johnson (21:23):
Yeah. Great question. So this is something I've been wrestling with, um, from the marketing world for the last few weeks, actually. So I think we, as people that are communicating, we, uh, we need to get away from the industrial realistic nature of marketing. So what I mean by that is we're trading like everyone, like their cog and this machine of communication. Um, when we know every single person is unique and different. So what is the content that people are gonna engage with? Well, the biggest content that anyone will engage with is story based content mm-hmm . So tell the stories of the people at your church. Hmm. Tell the stories of what your church has been doing for your community. Not about, um, it doesn't only have to be about, Hey, join us Sunday, but like share when you guys are going to the food pantries and serving share when you guys are having block parties and, uh, the life change that people will experience at your church because we know that's what people wanna be involved with. We know that isolation, loneliness, and anxieties at an all time high and that people are searching for community mm-hmm and relationships. So share those stories and you're gonna get a lot more engagement than just, Hey, join us Sunday, or Hey, check out this worship that we did. Um, yeah. That stuff is fine, but that should not be the only thing you do.

Nick Clason (22:52):
Yeah. I think, uh, I mean, think about this, right? Like why do you get on social media? Like mm-hmm, I get on social media to be entertained, uh, to laugh or, you know, maybe to be inspired. Yeah. But I don't get on there to learn about events. Yep. Almost, almost never.

Matthew Johnson (23:11):
Exactly.

Nick Clason (23:12):
And so, you know, and I think, you know, we're gonna get to in a second talking about TikTok and Instagram, uh, but I think that's Mo that's where a lot of people are kind of going to, you know, it's like that short form video content, cuz it's, it's funny, you know, that's that's I, when I share something, I share something that's funny, you know, exactly. Or maybe a little bit inspirational, but for the most part, something that I think is funny so let's, let's move that way then. So let's talk about Instagram. Um, Instagram is obviously owned by MEA, which is owned, which is the parent company of Facebook and all that stuff. So should your Instagram strategy be similar to that of Facebook? Should it be identical to that of Facebook? Because you can do that right. Where you can post on Instagram and duplicate that exact same content over to your Facebook page. Um, is that the best practice for Instagram right now? Or what are you seeing out there?

Matthew Johnson (24:04):
No, so you definitely can just, you know, post straight from Instagram to Facebook, that's the easy way out, but you'll probably see one of your platforms as doing better than the other. And the reason is, is cuz it's drastically different demographics on both platforms. Like I said, Facebook is older, you're gonna have, let's just say 40 and up Instagram is gonna be your millennial. Yeah. They're starting to get weary on the, on just the Instagram algorithm. Um, so people are using Instagram. They're not liking as much, they're scrolling more. Um, so that is, uh, something you also be need to be cognitive of. So really your Instagram content should just be strong piffy storytelling content that is meant to either entertain or make me feel. And honestly the win on Instagram right now is short form video.

Nick Clason (24:58):
Yeah. And that's very TikTok adjacent, correct?

Matthew Johnson (25:03):
Yep. Yep.

Nick Clason (25:04):
So what's so is there best practice then on if you're posting content to TikTok that's a minute or under 30 seconds or under, should you also then be posting that same thing on Instagram reels should or should those be individual pieces of content?

Matthew Johnson (25:22):
So right now, as we're recording this, I would say post your TikTok content on Instagram with your TikTok watermark on Instagram, cuz the TikTok demographic is gonna be your 18 to 25, 18 to 30 year olds. So you are still hitting a very similar demographic. Um, and you can kind of kill two birds with one stone. Uh, but TikTok should be your more entertaining, fun stuff. Um, I will say it's pretty hard to go viral inspirational on TikTok. It's a lot easy to go viral on Instagram with uh, inspirational. So, Hmm.

Nick Clason (25:59):
So that's interesting that you say that before we, before we jump straight to TikTok, um, Instagram feed posts, Instagram story posts. Are there still value in those or are you saying double down on, on like reels and abandon those other things?

Matthew Johnson (26:17):
I would double down on reels and stories. So stories is still, um, a massive driving factor for people on Instagram. You'll actually see most people get on Instagram. And the first thing they do is scroll through, um, as many stories as they can. Now, what I will say to help you on Instagram is to go live on Instagram more. Mm um, so why I say that is cuz Instagram pushes that content higher still and you can get on front of people's feeds on their stories quicker if you go live. So if people aren't liking your content or they're not scrolling through your story, going live will help you get in front of their eyes more.

Nick Clason (26:59):
Now you now back to the, you talked about posting with your TikTok watermark. Are you, are you saying do that as a, as a way to promote and raise awareness that you do have a TikTok account?

Matthew Johnson (27:13):
Yep. So right now that is what they're recommending is that you post from TikTok to Instagram, with the TikTok watermark, cuz it shows that you're on TikTok and also Nick, you and I both know, um, content takes off quicker on TikTok and usually it takes off more virally on TikTok before it will Instagram. So I'll be scrolling through Instagram reels and I'll see a TikTok that I saw last week that already had gone viral. Yeah. And it's just cuz talk's algorithm is just next level crazy, which also has a lot of concerns behind it. But we could talk about that earlier.

Nick Clason (27:51):
Yeah. It's so interesting that you say that though. Cuz even, uh, even in my own experience, like I'm looking right now on our church, social media and everything that was first posted to TikTok and then posted to Rios has almost no views on, on Instagram, but it's doing well over on TikTok. And so that's been a, that's been a little bit of a thing to try and kind of navigate. So let's talk TikTok then for a minute, should we be on it? It feels like it's a place we sh you know, a lot of church people are maybe even scared of it. And so if we've been trending younger is TikTok the youngest of all the platforms that we're talking about.

Matthew Johnson (28:30):
So we're gonna talk about today. Yeah. It would be the youngest. So your demographic is gonna be that, um, 18 early or later gen Z to, uh, you know, 30, 25 to 30. So okay.

Nick Clason (28:46):
And, and best practice on there is like, we've been saying short form video. You can do trends, you can do maybe inspiring inspirational content, um, and also just humor. Right?

Matthew Johnson (28:58):
Yeah. TikTok is really good for that humor aspect. Like you can definitely do some inspirational stuff. Um, and it's also the hashtag feature of it is, uh, a great way to find other like minded tiktokers. Um, like I said, the algorithm of TikTok is very effective, but I also do understand the reservations behind TikTok with, uh, just everything behind it. So, um, but I will say that is where your younger audience is and if you wanna be reaching those people, you need to go there. Unfortunately.

Nick Clason (29:29):
And the thing that's so crazy that changes the AB the absolute game with TikTok is even as like, I look into our like specific analytics, I was looking at them yesterday. Um, the majority of, uh, people who watch your videos, um, at least ours are not followers of ours, right? Mm-hmm, , they're, they're people that discover us from like the four U page.

Matthew Johnson (29:55):
Exactly.

Nick Clason (29:55):
Which is, you know, so much different than the way that we've treated social over the years. And so in a lot of ways is TikTok, can it be an evangelistic tool? Can it be like a way to reach people that aren't connected to your church? Is that a good strategy for it? It feels like sort of the opposite of what we've been talking about with going hybrid.

Matthew Johnson (30:15):
Yeah. You definitely can reach people with TikTok and you just need to have a strategy behind where do you take someone from TikTok to this hybrid approach. And that's what, we're not seeing a lot of that right now of like, okay, you get people watching the videos on TikTok, but now what

Nick Clason (30:31):
Mm-hmm

Matthew Johnson (30:32):
Mm-hmm so you gotta give them that next call to action and take them to your church website or to your online platform, whatever that looks

Nick Clason (30:38):
Like. Yeah. All right. So this one's up for debate a little bit discord, is that a social media platform? What even is discord and why, why did you tell me to add it to our outline?

Matthew Johnson (30:51):
Great question. So discord is, um, I think you can probably consider it a social media platform right now, but what I love about discord is the aspect that you can create very curated, focused groups. Um, there's a lot of really cool stuff you can do on discord, and you can create different breakout rooms. Um, you can create different channels that people can talk about different stuff. So, uh, I, uh, have been involved with a couple of new Christian discords that people have been wanting me to help them, um, get going. So what you can do in discord is like this one that I'm in is like, there's a whole prayer request, channel Bible, verse channel, David stories, channel general chat. And it's really, um, and you can just break it down more and more and more like, you can create your, you, if you wanna do a sports league in it or whatever, you can do that.

Matthew Johnson (31:50):
And, uh, um, there's like a lot of fun stuff you can do in it. What's good about it is that you're getting all like-minded people in that discord together. Mm-hmm so you can actually talk about, Hey, we have X, Y, and Z going on in youth group also, here's where all our prayer request is. And here we're talking about fantasy and, um, you're getting your community built together in a very cohesive platform. And I will also tell you, is that your young people in your church are on discord? Hmm. Um, most of them are, especially if, uh, so like during the pandemic something I heard all the time, as we were trying to get everyone to go to teams and zoomed and, um, trying to do these virtual events, uh, there was all these kids that were telling me, why are you guys not just using discord?

Matthew Johnson (32:37):
We're already on it? Mm-hmm . And I was like, and I laughed, cuz I've been on discord for years, but I've always thought about it as a gaming thing, but it's more than a gaming thing. Now it's now a chat functionality that you can create your community in. So if you wanted to put your youth group in there, you could, if you wanted to put your women's ministry in there, you could, and learning curve is really easy for it. Hmm. And you have a captive audience that is interested in your, in your group, your culture and what you're doing. So whatever you communicate they're gonna be engaged with.

Nick Clason (33:09):
Yeah. That's interesting that you, that you say that the learning curve thing, cause I think that's probably everyone's biggest reservation, right. Is the introduction of a new platform. How hard is it gonna be to figure out? So, um, yeah. Great. All right, Matt, last one, text messaging. Uh, I recently heard that the open rate on a text message is 99%. Is that true?

Matthew Johnson (33:35):
Yeah,

Nick Clason (33:36):
That's crazy. So that has to be a platform that we should be using as churches, right?

Matthew Johnson (33:43):
Yeah, absolutely. Um, so texting is the best, one of the best ways to do communication period. Um, we know people reply to text messages and open text messages, um, way more than email as you just talked about with open rate. Um, also, uh, if people give you, if they trust you enough to give you their number to text, 'em the trust level with you and your church, um, is extremely high, which that tells me immediately is, oh, I can communicate, uh, differently with these people. Cause I've already built that trust bridge with them.

Nick Clason (34:23):
Mm-hmm yeah. Yeah. And again, to, to the point that we're making with all of this, right? So if we go back through web and app, you version social media platforms, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, discord, and text messaging, every single one of those things exists in you and my pocket every single day. Yep. And so the, our people from our church are carrying the access to all of these things with them every single day of the week. And so I think as a church, it's a miss, right? If we're only, uh, talking to them once a week on Sunday, but then if we break that down, even more understanding that people are only coming to church once a month, we're only talking to them 12 times a year. Why would we not try to create connection, create discipleship, content, create inspirational things through the things that they're carrying around with them every single day of the week.

Matthew Johnson (35:30):
Exactly.

Nick Clason (35:31):
So, so that's what, that's the idea. Uh, this was very nitty gritty and, uh, you know, appreciate Matt, all of your marketing knowledge and demographic studies and everything that you have, man, cuz uh, I know the reason that, uh, the reason that I love having you on this is because you are just for me an absolute wealth of knowledge. So I hope that, uh, as everyone else who's listened to this, able to pick your brain, um, or just hear some of these things about all these different platforms is advantageous to them. Um, beneficial. So I appreciate, I appreciate that, man.

Matthew Johnson (36:08):
Yeah. Don't thank you. I appreciate it. It's been a blast and I hope everyone's going, uh, get something out of this. So

Nick Clason (36:14):
gosh, I can't imagine that they didn't so good. Hey again, thanks everyone for hanging out. Uh, feel free to subscribe. Give us a rating. If you find this helpful, share it with a friend. Um, you can follow along on Twitter at hybrid ministry and online at hybridministry.xyz Uh, but until next time we will talk to you all later.