You can get full episode transcripts at:
http://www.hybridministry.xyz/051

You can watch the show at:
http://www.youtube.com/@clasonnick

TikTok:
http://www.tiktok.com/@clasonnick

Instagram:
http://www.instagram.com/hybridministry

SHOWNOTES
http://www.nucleus.church

TIMECODES
00:00-02:45 Intro
02:45-07:36 Should My Church Focus on Social Media or Website?
07:36-17:06 There are too many announcements to make, what do I do?
17:06-21:56 What are Digital Media Ideas for Churches in 2023?
21:56-25:03 What are my Top 5 Cell Phone Apps as a Content Creator
25:03-26:02 Outro

TRANSCRIPT
Nick Clason (00:01):
Well, hey everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Hybrid Ministry Show. In this episode, we are going to be answering three pressing and one maybe not so pressing church communication related questions. Before we do, excited to have you with us. I am here drinking my coffee Joffreys if you know, you know, in my new Avengers mug, cuz we just got back from Disney World. It was amazing. Uh, I took a week off from recording and editing and all the things, but you missed nothing cuz we did some peer recording. So you are all set to go. Anyway, pumped about that. If you, uh, want to see any of the recaps of that stuff, it is on my YouTube channel, my TikTok, or if you just wanna see me hold my new Avengers mug that is currently streaming on YouTube right now as well. If you're just listening to this, you can go to the link in our show notes and hit the YouTube button, hit the subscribe, hit the bell, hit the, like, all those things are good for the algorithm.

Nick Clason (01:03):
Help us get found. If you're just watching on YouTube and you're like, wait, this is a podcast. Yes it is, it's a podcast. Come hang out with us. Link in the show notes for that in every single episode we provide for you and 100% completely free transcript. Just head to the website and check it out. And, uh, in addition to that, we have a completely free ebook. It is basically your step-by-step guide on how to create a TikTok, post it, save it, and then post it to other social platforms so that you can be up on what's going on social media right now, vertical video is king and it is giving the church a leg up for one of the very first times in social media history. So we don't want you to be missing out on that. Finally, hey, if you are here, a rating, a review would be incredible.

Nick Clason (01:51):
It really helps us get indexed and found and helps get this word out to other people. So if you feel so inclined to leave a rating or a review, we would just absolutely love that. Without any further ado, let's dive into these three pressing and one not so pressing church communication questions. They are going to be question number one, what should I focus on first? Social or my website? Question number two, there are altogether too many events happening at my church to effectively announce anything. What do I do? I have some advice on that. And what is the best digital media for churches in 2023? What should I be doing? And they're maybe not as popular out there. Like, what are some ideas? And finally, what are my top five used apps on my phone? So there you go. That's what we're diving into. Let's go.

Nick Clason (02:46):
Okay, question number one, what should I focus on? Should it be social or should it be my website? And this one's, honestly, my personal estimation, pretty easy. I think the answer should be your website. Here's a couple reasons why. It is your home base. If you create your website, you own it. You are the, you are the primary real estate manager of it. If you're on social media and you're growing a following over there, you should do that as well. But if you had to pick between one or the other, social media is a little bit finicky because it changes its rules. I e the algorithm you've been there before where someone's gotten big on, on some sort of platform, whether it be Facebook or Instagram or TikTok. And then one of those platforms shifts underneath them, the algorithm, and they're no longer getting found.

Nick Clason (03:38):
Their videos are not getting as many plays, they're not getting as many likes, and that's because they are not the owner of their content. They're on borrowed or rented space on social media. Meanwhile, on your website, you can make it everything that you need or want it to be. And I honestly recommend, and I, this is not an original idea with me at all. I stole this one 1000% from the guys up at Pro Church Tools Nucleus Church, but make it your centralized hub. The reason for that is because like on social media, for example, you might post, uh, a fleeting thought or an idea or a devotional or, uh, engage in ministry in the dms in some sort of way with people. However, if, if you are using social media as your primary vehicle for announcements, if it is a glorified billboard, then people are going to be like, wait, I saw that post a couple of weeks ago, let me scroll back and try and find it.

Nick Clason (04:37):
That's a pain in the butt, man. But if you put it on your website and if they know, if people know that it's on your website, then what you can do is you, when they ask you a question, you can be like, Hey, yeah, the answer is whatever. But also it's on the website. Anytime you need that and you do that a few times to any individual person and they learn, you kind of start to feel like a jerk, like early on with it. Like we're in that phase right now. We just got a website that we are dumping everything too. I told you a couple episodes ago, it's not exactly what I hoped it would be. I want to go with like a nucleus site. Uh, but we have to go, you know, with our church communications people. Uh, I, I work in our youth mystery department and so like I have to make sure that what I'm doing jives with the rest of the church, which I totally get and I'm am in support of that.

Nick Clason (05:28):
Um, however, because of that, the website has certain things on it that we just, we are not able to kind of work around ourselves yet. And so, uh, anyway, all that to be said, it's still a full service location. And so if a parent or someone's like, Hey, you send an email a couple weeks back, where was that information about? Or what you can just say, yeah, yeah, you know, camp deadline is May 31st, but also did you know that it's on the website at film url? And you say that, you just start saying that a bunch, right? And it becomes like a part of your, like vernacular a part of your answer. And that's why I think that you should go website first because website is your own real estate. It's the equivalent of owning or renting an Airbnb from somebody for vacation, which can be fun, it can be exciting, it can be sexy.

Nick Clason (06:23):
And you have like all your stuff. Like that's kinda like social media, right? It's kind of fun, it's kind of exciting and it might even feel a little more sexy than building out a full website. But at the end of the day, you don't own it. It's owned by Mark Zuckerberg or someone in China who, whoever's owning TikTok or the YouTube gods that be that pick the algorithm. But if you own your house, it's not as fun. You know, when the HVAC system goes out that it's on you to fix. You can't just call the owner or call the landlord. Like that's your responsibility because it's your house and you own it, however, it's yours and you build equity in it and you get to ride the housing market and it's all the unseen, not as fun, not as glamorous, not as shiny things, but it is still better.

Nick Clason (07:09):
That's how we, we all know, like when you own a house, it's better. However, it's more of a pain in the butt and it's not as shiny, it's not as glamorous, but it's better. So that's what I would recommend. I would recommend if you have to pick between the two social or website, definitely lean website. Make sure that you own your real estate, your videos, your uh, announcements, your, uh, people are aware of where to go and what to do when they get there. Okay? There are too many ministries and too many events vying for attention and wanting to be announced. What do I do? Well, I would create some sort of rubric, some sort of, uh, church communications, uh, ranking system. And you have to make a determination and certain things get certain priority, right? Like the Easter service, which affects the entire church body is going to get all the publicity and all the stage time.

Nick Clason (08:10):
Meanwhile, the woman's bunko night, while still important and still matters and no hard feelings to Phyllis who's planning it, uh, is not going to maybe get the same amount of announcement or same amount of run, but you know how it goes, right? You don't announce it. And now Phyllis is angry because you didn't announce her thing from the stage, but you got Pastor John over here who needs the Easter announcement to go out as well. And so you're trying to make Phyllis and Pastor John both happy, but you work for Pastor John and Phyllis is just this like, uh, volunteer sweet old lady who's volunteering for the women's ministry, but you work for Pastor John, right? And so that's kind of, that's what maybe the mental gymnastics are that you're going through when you're determining what to announce and how to announce it. Now here's the thing.

Nick Clason (08:59):
I think that churches have very much fallen in prey to announcements being a one track sort of thing. It being the announcement time on Sunday morning from the platform. And that's it. And that's just simply not true. So, uh, while you can create your, uh, rubric and you can grade like, okay, the woman's bunko night, unfortunately we don't have enough space for these announcements. Uh, and so it's gonna get bumped from the Sunday morning announcement time. However, there are other channels and other avenues in which you can lean into and which you can help create so that people are in the loop about what is going on. And so create your rubric, create your metric or your grading system about what pops through what actually gets a stage announcement so that you're not, you know, announcing 25 things, you're announcing only a handful of things or, or honestly, if I could find a way, I would make it be announcing only one thing so that people really know it.

Nick Clason (09:58):
And then really craft that announcement to be good and well done. Um, captivating, inspirational, perhaps try and find a way to share a story. People are gonna connect to a story, especially a story about life change and then announce it. But then, yeah, you did, you left Phyllis's, uh, bunko on the cutting room floor. So what are you gonna do? So there are multiple communications avenues and I wanna just kinda like, uh, stream of consciousness, rapid fire, some of the ones that I have, uh, or that are in my brain and maybe, and so doing that, that sparks something that works for you and uh, you can use that in your setting as well. But, uh, one of them is your pre-roll, right? As people are coming into service, utilize that time with rotating or scrolling announcement slides. It's not very innovative, I know, and it might even seem outdated and antiquated, but it is, I think, worth it because you have a very captive audience, people filtering in, sitting down, looking ahead at a screen.

Nick Clason (10:57):
And you can have announcements, you can have things popping through, obviously. Also you can utilize, uh, your social media channels on there though. What I would do is I would try and lean into what social media is made for. So for example, instead of just posting graphics on reels or TikTok or just like graphics on your Instagram or Facebook feeds, I would find a way to creatively, uh, do memes or games or, uh, silly like p o v type content. But you do those things and it, it adjacently announces your event while also being something on there that is, uh, leaning towards entertainment. Uh, also think about signage. Where is the signage and what is the available signage in your church? Could be bathroom signage, which is one of my favorites. Having a sign above urinals for men is a great place to put something because why no man wants to look side side.

Nick Clason (11:53):
So look good straight ahead. Okay? Uh, you also got banners if you have like a table setting, like we, in our student ministry, we have a table setting, um, where like people sit around round tables and there's a like clear placard that sits right in the middle. You can do tabletop type announcements or tabletop type signs. You also have your work weekly church email and then also your weekly stage announcement, right? And then I think every announcement, no matter what should get included into your one-stop centralized hub, your one stop website so that everybody knows no matter what to always go there. So even if they see Bunco in the pre-roll, but they're like, ah, shoot, I didn't catch all the details, that's okay, because they know it's on the website, right? It's the same thing. That's true of like, if you watch a movie trailer, if you watch a movie trailer online, you're like, man, I have to go see the new Marvel movie.

Nick Clason (12:48):
Yeah, you do. But what it didn't do was it didn't pop up an end card at the end of the trailer and say your hometown, your movie theaters and the showing times for each day for the next week. No, it puts the onus on you If you wanna see the movie, if you wanna go to Bunko night, then you will chase down that information. Historically, what's been the issue, churches haven't done a very good job of making that information readily available. They think they do by, by including it in the announcement or the graphic is like a bunko thing. And then it's just got like worlds and worlds of text, like six 30 to eight in the f building with Phyllis. And uh, if you want to go make sure you email Phyllis at flower lady 37 29 aol.com cuz apparently Phyllis is still using aol.

Nick Clason (13:38):
And, uh, if you have questions, you can swing by the welcome desk in the front lobby. And you see what I'm saying? Like, instead, if you streamline everything and you say Bunco Night Info app, boom, your website, everything you go to your website provides itself as a bit of a backdrop. Now let me give you one of my favorite church communications hacks of all time. And that hack is, this is, this is a little bit not a pet peeve, but I I just, I think that you're missing an opportunity if you do it this way. So for example, I am an author on Download Youth ministry, and one of the things that has made very famous, made very available are five minute countdowns. They put the five minute countdown on, um, right, you know, five minutes before the service is supposed to start. And that's a very popular thing.

Nick Clason (14:28):
Our churches do it. Your church probably has some sort of iteration of a five minute countdown. One of my pet peeves, or one of the things I just honestly think is a little bit of a miss is that you have a, a lot of churches, they'll have a pre-roll and then at the five minute mark, they'll switch off of the pre-roll to this five minute countdown. Um, and this actually happened yesterday where I was gonna church. I looked around five, there were, I don't know, probably like 20% of the people that were going to end up being in the service, um, or that ended up being in the service at that time. And they switched off the pre-roll, which was very information and announcement heavy to a generic, um, a good, very good like cinematic good, uh, picture and encapsulation of the church and the life of the church and like serving and events and all the things, but no information.

Nick Clason (15:21):
And in that five minute time, it went from 20% of the service to probably like 70, 80% of the service. And all the people that walked into the room at that moment, they didn't get any of that benefit of the pre-roll. And if they got in there a minute early, if the pre-roll was still rolling, they could sit there and they could still see the last little bit of the pre-roll. They would still catch some of the things and maybe, maybe Bunco would roll in front of them and then they would know, oh, Bono's coming up. And so one of my favorite hacks is create a pre-roll and, and create a dynamic pre-roll if you have what it takes, one that's video based and all the things. And then, and instead of swapping a five minute countdown, just create a loop and then put a five minute countdown on through pro presenter or just throw a five minute overlay on a video and render out two videos, one without a five minute countdown, one with a five minute countdown.

Nick Clason (16:17):
And so that way when they switch from the pre-roll to the five minute countdown, the sa it's the same thing. That's, that's what I do in my ministry. It's the same video. Just one has a five minute countdown timer on it, one does not. And that's one of my favorite hacks because I believe that you have a captive audience of people filtering into your auditorium. They are actually paying attention to the screen once it starts counting down, or they should be at least because they don't want to be late or they have to get from one place to the other. And so in so much as paying attention, the theory then is that they're at least going to be mildly aware of the other announcements that are going on behind the five minute countdown. So that's one of my favorite hacks for you as a church communications person.

Nick Clason (17:01):
Hope it's helpful. Let me know if you implement it. Let's move on to question three. What are three digital media ideas for churches in 20 20, 20 23 that aren't as popular? So idea that I have number one that I don't think is as popular now, they're very popular, don't get me wrong, but they may not be as popular with churches are podcasts. And I don't just mean your Sunday sermon podcast, though, you 100% should be doing that. It's probably the lowest hanging fruit and the most available opportunity for you to start regularly posting podcasts and a podcast catcher. But I also think what about finding ways to create podcasts that educate, that explain, um, different facets of faith or spiritual disciplines or fill in the blank, right? But podcasts I think are an amazing tool that churches should be leaning into as churches. Church leaders and pastors are professional content creators.

Nick Clason (18:02):
And so your people, you are creating content for them every single week on a Sunday morning. And for quite frankly, it is a lecture style piece of information that you are creating for your church. So why are you not taking that skill that you have honed that you are good at? Um, and honestly, maybe you're like, well, I'm, I'm the senior pastor, like I don't have time. Maybe you work at a church with additional other staff and pastors who don't preach as often as you. Maybe this would be an outlet or an avenue for them to exercise their teaching gift to grow in what their, uh, and what God has given to them. Uh, but they don't have time or you don't have time or the sermon preaching calendar doesn't allow for the time or the space for them to get a lot of stage time.

Nick Clason (18:47):
That's okay. You can give this other outlet, this other avenue for them to exercise those gifts for them to teach people via podcast. So I think podcasts are a really creative way and a really potentially effective way for churches to lean in, um, and to create additional content for their churches and for people who are interested in what the church has to offer. Another idea that I have are TikTok style teaching or inspirational videos. So while podcast is long form, I think TikTok style videos are the best, like zig to the zag of that where they are, uh, short. So podcast, really no, no matter how long it is, you can go as long as you want. TikTok, make it as short as humanly possible, and perhaps to even marry those two, just film your podcasts and then cut out clips of from the podcast.

Nick Clason (19:43):
And then the short videos can serve as both inspirational and educational, but they can also serve as an advertisement of sorts or a marketing technique for your podcast. So you post on your social channel some of those short clips, and then people begin to discover and realize that there's a longer form version of this out there via audio podcast or even video podcast. I mean, if you're gonna capture the, the video, uh, and you have the bandwidth for it, there's really no reason to then marry the, the audio and the video, put it together, and then just create a video based podcast as well. And then idea number three that I have eBooks right, the, in the same vein, you are a professional content creator. So just take the content that you have that's good, that's useful, that's beneficial that you have studied, that the Holy Spirit has laid on your heart, and that you then are now, uh, presenting and showing to your church congregation.

Nick Clason (20:40):
Take that and put package that in a way that makes it available for people. Why maybe you, uh, maybe it hits a different audience than those who are in the church on Sunday morning. Maybe they weren't there on Sunday morning, but it's still something that's out there and that's available for them to do, right? Like if you're a pastor and you create like three ideas for studying God's word, you can create that in an infographic or an ebook or something like that, and you can offer that to your church and you have that to live on in perpetuity. Meanwhile, if you preach that sermon on March 12th, 2016, that's lost back on March 12th, 2016. But if you repurpose some of that content, then anytime anyone has a question about, Hey, how do I spend time with God, Jack? You know, I created this resource, and you just pull it back out or you, you post it on your website or you have it somewhere that's accessible, that's available for people to come to, for you to share with them.

Nick Clason (21:37):
And that's, I think another way that you can help kind of, uh, rejuvenate or repurpose some of your already created content into something that feels fresh. It isn't fresh, but it's beneficial and it's helpful to people's spiritual growth and their journey and their information and understanding of God's word. All right, question number four. What are the top five apps that I as a youth pastor and as a, uh, content creator used on my phone often? Number one is Google Drive. I would be sunk without Google Drive. I store all of my photos, all of my videos on Google Drive, and they sit there and then I download them off of Google Drive and then I post them and then I can delete the storage off of my phone. So that is the first thing. I would absolutely be lost without it. I use it both for business and for personal, and I can toggle very easily between both of those accounts in my Google Drive.

Nick Clason (22:33):
Do it often, do it all the time. The other app on my phone that I use a lot is Cap Cut. There are templates galore out there, and TikTok, um, honestly is pushing cap cut templates right now. So if you post a tick, uh, cap cut template, you can go viral pretty easy. Um, I have not had as good of luck with that on TikTok, but you know, where I have is YouTube shorts. I can get videos up over a thousand views pretty easily just by using a cap cut template. Uh, another thing that I use is gonna sound weird, but I use my Google Chrome app all the time. And if I post something that I created in TikTok by itself, then I go into Google Chrome and I search, download TikTok video without watermark, I go to the very first search engine result there.

Nick Clason (23:18):
I paste the link from my TikTok video, I download it, I copy the caption that I, that I created in TikTok. I go over to Instagram and I post it and I paste the, the caption and then I go over to YouTube shorts and I post the video and I paste the caption. And that is one of the quickest, easiest and hackiest ways for me to get the TikTok, uh, watermark off of my videos and onto other social media platforms. Couple others that I use that are just kind of for me, uh, cast box. I'm an Android guy, so I don't have the purple podcast app for podcasts, but I listen to podcast galore. Like I told you at the beginning. I was in Disney World last week and I got behind on my podcast. So I have something like 60 podcasts in my catcher right now that I need to, uh, pound through.

Nick Clason (24:06):
I also am subscribed to maybe way too many, and so I might need to cut some of those back. But I listen to podcasts a lot. I have a decent commute and so, um, I'm able to, you know, listen to them as I go. And finally, one, uh, that I don't use a ton, but it's good to have there for reference is Kindle. I use Kindle across all of my devices. Uh, if I'm reading some sort of book for work, I try to get it in a Kindle version. That way I don't have to lug the book with me. Or if like I'm at a doctor's or dentist's office and I wanna sit and wait for a minute, I can pull it open and read wherever I am on my phone, on my iPad, on my computer. Um, and then I can quickly reference back to other things, other books, other, um, ideas that I've read before.

Nick Clason (24:49):
If I want to use them for something on social media or whatever the case might be, those are five must have apps that I use on a pretty frequent and regular basis to help make my life easier as a social media manager in a church. Well, hey everyone. So glad you hung out with me on this episode. And if you're on the YouTube stream, you're looking at my Avengers mug right now. Glad that you hung out and you stuck around as always. Transcript hybridministry.xyz, give us a light, give us a rating, give us a share, give us a review. All those things would mean the world to us. And as a token of my and our appreciation back to you, we would love to give you our 100% completely free ebook title. Have I already ruined my church's TikTok account? The answer is no. But go download the book so that you know how to use and post to TikTok whenever, and however you want, head to the link in the show notes for that. And without any further ado, we're gonna get you outta here. Thanks for hanging out. Don't forget to, as always, stay hybrid.

Follow Along on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9pjecCnd8FVFCenWharf2g
Come Hang with Nick on TikTok:
https://www.tiktok.com/@clasonnick?lang=en
Shownotes & Transcripts for this Episode:
http://www.hybridministry.xyz/048

SHOWNOTES
The Original 2023 Posting Strategy:
https://www.hybridministry.xyz/025

FREE E-Book on Posting to TikTok in 2023:
https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/ebook

To see Nick's Church's Social Media in Action:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/crosscreekstudents/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4f4bABQ6RgYF8CHY9G4HKw
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@crosscreekstudents?lang=en

TIMECODES
00:00-04:37 Intro
04:37-06:55 Why I'm shifting from posting less content on social media in 2023
06:55-15:30 Reason #1: Quantity to Quality
15:30-18:59 Reason #2: Margin for more variety of Social Media posts
18:59-23:03 In Conclusion

TRANSCRIPT
Nick Clason (00:02):
Hey, what is up everybody? Welcome back to another episode of the Hybrid Ministry Show. I am with you as always as your host, Nick Clason. Excited and thrilled to be with you on this episode. And in this episode, I want to give you my updated church social media posting strategy for 2023. Uh, I will link in the show notes if you've been around any length of time, my ultimate, uh, church social media posting strategy. Um, and I, I gave that back, I believe, around Christmas time, um, in 2022. And so here we are. It's May or June, depending on when you're catching this, or maybe even later if you're watching back through the archives, um, or listening back to the archives. Um, but now I want to just give an update and, uh, say, Hey, here's what I have been doing. Here's where I have been, and here's what I now know and here's the direction that I am now gonna go.

Nick Clason (01:06):
So tune in for that. But before we do, uh, if you haven't already figured out, we are on YouTube. So join us over there. Give us a, like a subscribe, all that stuff. Super duper helps with the algorithm. Um, and we would super appreciate it if any of those things, uh, were available or a thing that you could do for us. Uh, if you're in a podcast catcher, uh, subscribe so that you get this episode for free. It will automatically, uh, download, automatically show up in your feed every single Thursday morning at 4:00 AM when these things drop. And a rating or a review, either on Apple Podcast, on the YouTube podcast, any of those places, Spotify, we are all those places. So we would welcome a rating or a review. Um, it really helps with the algorithm. And, um, I believe in this message. I hope that if you're listening, that you two also believe in this message.

Nick Clason (01:57):
And if you are finding it helpful, um, getting that word out there in some way, just by helping us give it a rating that helps other people find their show, that helps other people attach to the mission message, um, of what hybrid ministry is all about. If, if you're new, you know, what we're essentially saying is, uh, this is not a all about digital ministry, though. There is a lot of elements of digital ministry in here. Um, and this is not all about in-person ministry. What this really is, is this is a melding of the two, and it's helping kind of fuse where, where the road meets between, um, just in person or just on online or just in digital. And so that's why we're calling it hybrid. It's a both and sort of experience. That being said, most churches are really good with their in-person experiences, um, and they may not be as good with some of their hybrid experiences, and it could be streaming your service.

Nick Clason (02:57):
That could be what a hybrid experience is. That's what most churches, uh, do. That's, that's what most of their online or digital strategy is, is like, well, we streamed the service, COVID forced us to buy a camera, stick it in the back of the room and stream the service. And that's all well and good. And if you're doing that, I'd recommend continue doing it. But there are many more ways, I think, to enter into that space, uh, and to offer more than just your Sunday morning experience to your church members, your church attenders, and your perspective people. So again, thank you for joining us. One of the major players right now in 2023. Um, and this will still bear itself out and you're about to see and hear in my updated church, uh, media posting strategy in 2023 is short form, vertical based video. And I have created for you a 100% free ebook.

Nick Clason (03:49):
I would love for you to click the link in the show notes and head there and download your very own copy of it. Uh, it's just a way for you or a church social media manager or an intern or a college student to grab a phone and start creating tos completely free and from scratch. It is an ebook that we created step by step, walking you through. It's titled, have I Already Ruined My Church TikTok account? And we would just love for you to check that out and use it, and hopefully that will be to your benefit and your advantage as you're trying to lean into more and more of the hybrid space here in 2023 in an effort to reach Gen Z and millennials and beyond. So again, without any further ado, glad you're here. Thanks for joining us. Let's dive in to my updated church social media posting strategy in 2023.

Nick Clason (04:38):
The day was May 7th, 2023. That's the day I finally shifted my strategy from before. So a little bit of historical context so that you understand. Like I said, if you wanna go back and listen, drop the link to that in the show notes, check that out. But I have been posting three short form vertical video based content pieces every single day for five days a week. The reason I choose the five days a week thing is because I'm attempting to have rhythm and rest in a Sabbath and a weekend. And so I don't post on Friday and Saturday as a a member of church staff. Sun Sunday is for sure a working day, right? Um, and so therefore I just, I choose Friday and Saturday as my two days off. It works pretty well. So I post Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. That's why really, that's really the rhyme or reason works well with my schedule.

Nick Clason (05:32):
Um, and I would recommend that, like, I would recommend not overdoing it on your days off, because the, the reality is social media is relentless. It is a never ending beast, and it is always hungry. And so the more that you give to it, the more it's gonna want and the more it's gonna need. And so unless you have boundaries, there is really no, uh, stopping to it. And so it's up to you to create the boundaries to stay healthy, to stay in a spot that is gonna keep you mentally strong and all those types of things. So anyway, I've been posting three times a day, five days a week, and I just now shifted down and this is my new strategy. It's not earth shattering, and it's not a big shift. Okay? I've shifted down from three a day to two a day. So let's talk about what caused and what brought me to that shift.

Nick Clason (06:19):
It's multifaceted. There are two main points, and in the next couple sections, I'm gonna break down point number one, I'm gonna break down point number two. Um, but all of this is, while it's not monumental, it is a slight shift. And so if you have been following my recommended strategy, I will explain why I still think that there is benefit and merit to the three posts a day versus maybe the two posts a day. That is honestly ultimately gonna be up to you and up to your call. But before we do that, let me dive into my two-pronged reason for shifting from three a day to two a day. Let's go. Reason number one, why I am making this shift is I am hoping that shifting from posting three day to two a day, it's gonna take my weekly from 15 down to 10. Um, and there's already a rhythm baked in what I'm doing.

Nick Clason (07:12):
Like, for example, we're pre-filing all of our message content on video. And so out of that, I pull three, uh, shorts, three tos every single week, um, that are short message clips, um, Brady Shearer and the, and the people at Nucleus call it social sermons. Um, but essentially we're clipping a, a message with hopefully what I would consider to be a good hook, whether it is or not, I don't know. I'm still growing in that skill, I would say. And then at the end, we're pushing them to go consume longer sections of our YouTube, um, or podcast content. Uh, and so hopefully they find it and then they go, they go discover and, and become, you know, more engaged, more entrenched in what we're doing on social media. Anyway, all that to be said, right? Like, I am trying to, so, so there's three right there.

Nick Clason (08:02):
Okay, so outta my 10. Now I already have three. I only have to come up with seven more. And so ultimately I'm trying to shift, uh, creating quantity content to quality content. Now, I, I have not been trying to produce crap. Like, that's not been my goal, right? By any means. Like, I'm trying to do good work. I'm trying to be thoughtful, I'm trying to be creative, but there's just something about three a day that just feels relentless. And yesterday, May 7th was actually the very, and that May 7th, as of this recording, this will drop multiple weeks later. But, um, May 7th, when I first posted this, like, that was my very first day of posting only two a day. And it, it felt different. Like, I don't know it, you know, you might think like, what are you talking about? Like, it's only one different, like, I know, but it just, it, there's something about it, it just did.

Nick Clason (08:48):
And, uh, the illustration that I would make is I'm trying to produce really good quality content now, like part of the quantity, um, has been a little bit of an antiquated, I think, algorithm thing. And by antiquated, I mean, like a couple months ago, in social media land that's antiquated. You had to show up a lot and you had to show up frequently. You had to show up often. And if you can do three a day, if you can do quality content multiple times a day, you should. And I would still a hundred percent recommend it, but I just know my personal margin, like was not really allowing that anymore. Um, I was ha I was struggling with coming up with good ideas. And in like one of my original iterations of our plan, I've told you before, I work as a youth pastor.

Nick Clason (09:30):
I'm on a team. I'm one of three on our team. I have a director. There's me, I'm like the, the social media guru. And then we have, uh, another associate on our team. And, and she's a female. And so like the two of them, like I I, I dished out some social media stuff early on, like, Hey, you take three and you take three and I'll take the remainder. And they each both struggled with it for different reasons. Um, and, and so I pulled us back together and I said, what if we filmed some stuff together? We got all of us on camera at the same time. Instead of it just being like my talking head than your talking head, than your turn for your talking head. And they loved that idea. It was easier for them, but that dumped a lot more of the editing load back on my plate.

Nick Clason (10:12):
And so as a result of that, that's why I'm making this shift. The other thing is, you, you're in grow mode. I think when you're starting from scratch and you're doing a lot a day, we've, we've grown a lot. Go back to the last episode, I'll link it in the show notes. I give you my progress support. We have a fair bit of followers, we have a fair bit of subscribers in all four of the places. And so I think we've established ourselves. So now I wanna start creating really good content because that is the other thing that the recent TikTok algorithm has made very clear, is that like they are now going for good solid quality content. It's not just about hopping on a trend or a sound. And if you're on that sound, you can ride that wave to a lot of views, a lot of subscribers like that just doesn't work anymore.

Nick Clason (10:56):
I mean, and you saw that born out in some of my most recent like deep dives into analytics, is that like, we're not catching those waves the way that we were hoping that we would. And so therefore we have to not just try to rely on good cap cut templates or good trending sounds and funny dances. We have to actually create quality content that people are going to want to see, watch and consume. That's gonna be the path forward. And so to do that, I'm trying to pull back the number of, of posts I do a day so that I can spend more time on quality content. Right now, I am doing a series, you can check it out. It's at Cross Creek Church right now. I'm hoping it'll change to at Cross Creek students, but TikTok and name changes. So, um, but I'm doing a series, um, on all of our, our short form video platforms called Grow.

Nick Clason (11:47):
And i, I want to give bible and Bible study hack ideas. And so I'm opening with a hook with, it's all gonna be like bot ai voice, uh, filtered. And so it says like, this Bible study hack is an absolute game changer. That's how it starts. And then I post screenshots from the Bible app, or I post, uh, screenshots or downloaded images from other things. Uh, like the one today is gonna be about the, uh, printing press and how we now have access to the Bible everywhere. The early church didn't have that, right? We have it now in our pockets on our devices. Um, I also post one about like second Timothy three 16, how God's word is, uh, God breathe and useful for teaching, re repeating, correcting and training and righteousness and how that's gonna benefit to us. And so break down some of those verses give them hacks in the you version Bible app.

Nick Clason (12:42):
So that's gonna require some more effort on the prep side before I just get out there and start farting out, right? Some, like, some some TikTok. So I'm trying to put in some good thoughtful preparation, and then once I do the prep, then I have to turn around and edit it. So I'm, I'm really seeing a lot of these things from start to finish. In a lot of cases, if you're like a church social media manager, you might just be on the editing portion of it. And so you have the time and the bandwidth. Um, if you have content creators, pastors, whatever you're gonna call them on the backend doing the work, great. Like keep, keep letting them pump that stuff out. And the more you can produce, the better. If you have a good strategy and can post more than five times a day and you're handing it off some people on their days off and whatever, like yes, yes to all of that, right?

Nick Clason (13:29):
But at the end of the day, like, I am making this move to just try and build in a little bit more, uh, margin for me. And so, um, like I said, I'm, I'm trying to, um, in addition to creating good content, I'm trying to become a little bit more aggressive on my edits too. Um, spending more time on my edits, edits that are gonna be, um, good and stop the scroll and grab people's attention and all those types of things. So all of that just takes more time. And the more time I have, uh, is gonna be used to create 10 really good pieces of content every single week that I may have to edit every single one of them in like Adobe Premier Pro or my video editing software of choice. Um, as opposed to just pulling some random quick ones out off my phone, which is what I, I have been doing for some of the filler pieces.

Nick Clason (14:18):
There's nothing wrong with it. I mean, quite honestly, on my personal YouTube shorts, I posted, uh, one of those Jonas Brothers filters a couple weeks ago. Like, don't get stressed, we're gonna get figured out. Oh, deep conversations at the Waffle House. You might have seen it if you've been on TikTok, if not, you're welcome for that glorious singing in your ear holes. But I posted that and it's got like 53,800 views on YouTube and it helped drive my subscribers up over like 30 overnight. So you never know when one of those is just gonna like catch. And quite honestly, I posted it a week and a half ago and yesterday was when I saw my subscribers just freaking skyrocket, like outta nowhere. And so those still play a part. Those still work and those still happen, you know, every now and then. And so, um, leave space for some of those good cap cut templates, I would say for some of those good training audios, um, so that you can ride some of those waves cuz that that stuff does still happen.

Nick Clason (15:19):
So that's reason number one. I'm, I'm hoping to, uh, shift from quantity to quality. I'm hoping to buy back some, some time and some margin just in my working flow and schedule. Reason number two is I would like to create additional quality content that's not just video based. Now, hear me right when I say that you're gonna be, like you said, video was king and it is, and it, it a hundred percent still is. Everything we've posted on social media since I've been at my church has essentially been video based and I love it. Um, but I , i I will liken it to my current rhythm with video is, uh, one day, there was a day when I was working a couple years ago and I had to have a really tough conversation with a resident of mine. We ended up, I believe this day, or maybe it was a couple days later, uh, letting him go and, um, I needed to sit down and create for him what we call in our organization, a p I p a performance improvement plan.

Nick Clason (16:19):
He needed to sign off on that p i p and if he didn't like see it through to the end, we had, we had to and were going to let him go. Um, but my schedule that day was stacked. I had like two liter lunches, um, or a liter coffee and a liter lunch. I had several other meetings filtered in there. And so my boss at the beginning of the day sent me, um, his like templatized, p i p and maybe one that he'd used for someone else before. And by the time I got to that meeting, I literally swapped out the name that he sent me on his, with my, my residence's name and flew into the meeting five minutes late, slapped it down and had the conversation. And, uh, I told my boss about it later and he's like, that's not the way to have that conversation.

Nick Clason (17:03):
And I knew that, right? I just didn't have the margin in my schedule that was necessary that day. There was no other gaps, there was no other breaks to make that happen. And in a lot of the same way, the three a day is very aggressive. It's an aggressive growth strategy and it's caused me to not have any additional margin because I do want to lean into some carousel posts on Instagram that are more like learning based. Um, and that's gonna just take some time with me sitting down in Photoshop, building some of those out, thinking through them. And so all of this really, I would say at the end of the day is, is to build out a more robust social media strategy. One that is including good, strong and frequent quality content, short form video based things, but also has some supplemental content happening like on our Instagram feeds and stuff like that.

Nick Clason (17:54):
And so this isn't because Instagram, uh, is not working on reels anymore, it very much still is, we're still catching fire on there. Um, you know, I I just have a bigger vision and more things I want to do. So more feed posts more, I would like to do more longer form YouTube videos that aren't just messages. Like I would like to start creating some classes and, and fun things like that. But like, I don't have the margin for it. Some podcasts that are more regular, like I would like to do some of those. I don't have the margin for those. And so the, the more things, more a more fleshed out parent Facebook strategy, like, uh, any of that stuff I don't have the time for right now because of what I'm doing with, with Rios. And so this is hopefully gonna help me take a step back on the video slightly.

Nick Clason (18:39):
I, I'm, I'm, I, it's still king and so I don't want to abandon it at all, but I just wanna take a slight step back, focus on my editing and my content and then focus on my additional pieces of content, additional avenues of social media, um, as we trudge forward. So that is why I am shifting here in 2023. So ultimately, in conclusion, this is a margin move for me. I gave it a fair shake, an eight to nine month runway. We evaluated it, we've done that in recent episodes. Um, we took a couple accounts from zero and, and complete scratch to where they are today. And that the, the aggressive three times a day vertical video posting strategy helped get us there. Um, and frankly, I am in a church that, you know, when I, when I dropped my strategy for you, I was taking it from a multi-site megachurch with people from all over the Chicagoland area that called our church home and was still very much in the midst Andros of C O V I D or at least like living in the wake of that to a church that is in Texas in the conservative Bible belt, where they very much live out an in-person experience.

Nick Clason (19:49):
And so those were not apples to apples by any means. And so I was in a church, has a very in-person, um, environment and strategy. And so leaning into a hybrid ministry in there, still necessary for generation Z, not necessarily because it's like a Bible belt, you know, thing. But Gen Z still appreciates and uses hybrid ministry. We've even seen it here. People have appreciated it and liked it, but it's been a shift and it's, it's not the norm for what you would normally see in Texas. And so, uh, I, I say all of this to say like, I only wanna point out how big and how long and how far that hill was that we have been taking. And now as we step back, as we do deep dive into some analytics, it is causing us to shift ever so slightly. And that is why.

Nick Clason (20:38):
And so I hope that you, um, you know, I hope that you can take my context and compare it to yours and like, is this true for us as well or do we have the margin to continue to keep going with what we've been doing? Like I just want to let y'all know and be honest with you, like, this is where I am, this is where I'm coming from and I, um, always just wanna shoot it straight with you. Like here's where I am, here's where I'm coming from and here's how it's going. And uh, I will always do that and I will never fabricate or lie or say one thing's going better than another. Like this is just what it is and how it is. And, and this is where we are today as it stands. And so when I make another shift, you guys will be the first to hear about it.

Nick Clason (21:24):
Cuz I love to workshop it. And, and part of the reason why is y'all help give me a community, uh, for me to like, filter out some of my thoughts. I'll make shifts. But like sitting down to prep this podcast helped me figure out the, these are my two main reasons why I'm making this shift and that makes me more articulate in my job or with my boss or whatever the case might be. So I appreciate it, it's cathartic for me. I hope it's helpful for you. If it is, please drop us a rating, a review, all those things. Grab the free ebook, that will subscribe you to our email newsletter list. And it'll also give you a freebie on your own that you can use and help. Um, moving forward for a social media posting guide and strategy. Um, as always, we are appreciative of you. If you found this episode helpful, please consider sharing it with a friend, a family member, a coworker, a grandparent, your cat. I don't care. But sharing really helps. So if that's something that you have the margin or are able to do, please consider sharing it. We love you guys. Thanks for sticking around until the end and until always, that's not how I do it. Let's, I butchered it.

Nick Clason (22:35):
How do I say it? as always. No, don't forget, this is it. This is it. That was the worst ending in the history of mankind. And you know what, I'm keeping it in there. I face planted in front of you. Not everything's perfect. That's okay. We're gonna show the realness. Don't forget. And as always, stay hybrid.

Follow Along on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9pjecCnd8FVFCenWharf2g
Show Notes & Transcripts: http://www.hybridministry.xyz/045
Follow me on TikTok: http://www.tiktok.com/@clasonnick
FREE E-Book: https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/ebook

SHOWNOTES
Plain Text vs. HTML
https://www.mailmunch.com/blog/html-vs-plain-text-email

Singular Calls to Action:
https://unlayer.com/blog/call-to-action-in-emails

Central Hub:
[Nucleus.Church](nucleus.church)
[LHC.life](LHC.life)

Posting Content Online or to YouTube:
http://www.hybridministry.xyz/042

Running Ads:
https://www.hybridministry.xyz/009

TIMECODES
00:00-04:19 Intro
04:19-07:26 What is Marketing? And Should Churches even be focused on it?
07:26-09:14 Church Marketing Tip #1: Plain-Text Emails
09:14-11:12 Church Marketing Tip #2: Send From Your Pastor
12:12-15:23 Church Marketing Tip #3: Single CTA
15:23-15:52 Church Marketing Tip #3a: Include a PS Section in Email
15:52-18:00 Church Marketing Tip #4: Create a Central Hub Style Website
18:00-20:00 Church Marketing Tip #5: Put your messaging and sermon content online
20:00-20:48 Marketing Your Church to Those not a part of your church
20:48-21:53 Church Marketing Tip #6: Consider Running an Ad
21:53-22:58 Church Marketing Tip #7: Use Short-Form Video Content
22:58-26:19 Church Marketing Tip #8: Create an e-book for your community
26:19-28:28 Church Marketing Tip #9: Captialize on Word of Mouth
28:28- Outro

TRANSCRIPT
Nick Clason (00:00):
Well, hey there everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Hybrid Ministry Show. In this episode, I am going to give you nine church marketing tips. We're just gonna fire through them one by one. However, we're gonna break them up into two different sections. Section number one is marketing tips for people who already considered themselves a part of your church and a part of your congregation. And then the back half. So those are gonna be the first five. The back four are going to be church marketing tips for people who are not yet a part of your church congregation. So, so excited to have you with us. Hey, if this is your first time ever, welcome to the show. Excited to have you. If you don't know, we stream and film every single one of these episodes out to our YouTube channel. So you can grab the link to that in the show notes.

Nick Clason (00:48):
If you're on YouTube and you're like, wait, this is the podcast, yes it is. Hit the link in the show notes and that will take you to hybridministry.xyz. And there will be a specific link that will take you directly to this episode number and will give you completely free access to our transcripts, which is a free resource that we offer for each and every single episode. So make sure that you go and take advantage of that because listen, if you're anything like me, you're on a run, you're cooking dinner, you're walking your dog, and you might hear a thing that you're like, that's interesting. I want to dive deeper into that. And if that is the case, it's often hard and and difficult to do that, you know, when you are on that run, when you're walking that dog, when you're doing those dishes.

Nick Clason (01:29):
So you just make a quick earmark and like, I'm gonna go back, I'm gonna download those transcripts, I can see a little bit more. So that is an opportunity and definitely an option for you. So make sure that you take a look into that and take advantage of that. We're so excited to have you with us. Hey, listen, if you are excited to be here, if you're excited to be listening, it would mean the absolute world to us. If you would share this episode with a friend, it would mean the absolute world with us. If you are going to, if you help us by making a rating or a review, we would be thrilled with those things. Um, it just helps us get the word out. It helps us get indexed and ranked and search. Um, not because we're trying to go big, go viral or go famous, but man, we just, we're passionate about this message and we just really want to get the word out there.

Nick Clason (02:18):
You know what's interesting, before we dive into the church marketing tips, I was at a Bible study last night. Um, if you don't know me, my story, my name's Nick Clason, I'm your host, uh, here every single week with y'all. Um, new episodes drop every single Thursday at four o'clock in the morning. But I'm a youth pastor. I'm a youth pastor in the Dallas Fort Worth metroplex area, um, at a big church for most, but in Dallas it's not super big, uh, cuz everyone goes to church here. But I was at a, a bible study that we do, it's a yearlong bible study on Sunday night, which is not a normal ministry night, and it's for seniors only. So it's creative name called fso. So it's that fso and they're talking about finding a church when you go off to college. And um, it was just interesting cuz like the hybridness of ministry really reared its head in those moments, uh, because they're talking about visiting a church, how often you should visit a church, uh, what if you go in the main pastors, isn't there preaching like how many more times you need to give that church a shot?

Nick Clason (03:20):
And I just was like, guys, um, I was nice, right? But I was like, guys, you don't have to just only attend in person. Like if what you're looking for is the pastor's message and the content. I said Covid has forced just about every single church in America online. So check out their services, check out his preaching, uh, check those things out online, gather some of those data points. And then when, you know, based on what I've heard so far, this church, this church and this church are all options for me, then go visit them in person. So I just wanna say like even in my own life, even in my own realm, even in my own world, hybrid ministry is rearing its head. So encourage you, stick with it, it's important, it matters. There's a world out there of people that are trying to grasp and grab a hold of this message and you just might be the key for some of those people.

Nick Clason (04:09):
So what you do is worth it. What you do matters. And so without any further ado, let's dive in to nine different church marketing tips before we give you marketing tip number one, I just wanna do a quick like 10, 30 seconds, something like that. Little primer on what is marketing. If you Google search, what is marketing? This is a response you're gonna get. It says this, it's the activity or uh, the activity of business, sorry, the activity or business of promoting and selling products or services including market research and advertising. So you might be sitting here thinking like that. Yeah, great, but that's not what the church is supposed to do. And I agree with you mostly, uh, in the traditional sense, like you might think of marketing as a way to make money for a business, and that's true. Um, however, that is not necessarily the church's goal.

Nick Clason (05:03):
Our goal though is to bring about brand awareness and not cause we're a brand, but because we want people to know about our church. So what is your church about? Does your church even exist? Um, and then beyond that, once they do know that you exist, how do you help add value to their lives? And not because we're trying to get their tithe money, though, maybe we are at some point. That's part of the thing. You gotta make money. You know, you gotta, you know, you gotta take people's ties and use that for the overall betterment of the church. And if you don't, the crass reality is that your church that's gonna have to shut their doors. And so at some level you are gonna want that, but that's not the main reason. And you know that, and that's honestly not why you're in this.

Nick Clason (05:48):
Okay? You're in this so that people know about you, know about your church and then make a decision to commit and connect to your church. And with that commitment and connection, especially if that person is far from God and doesn't know Jesus, that's not only gonna come with a decision to join a social gathering and entity, but that's also gonna come with a major crisis of faith and a major faith hurdle decision that they're gonna have to make. So this isn't just, you're like, Hey, do you want to come shop at Walmart? This is, do you wanna give your life to Jesus radically and and forever change everything about that. And then do you want to commit to our social gathering where we help equip you and encourage you in that? And if you've grown up a Christian your whole life, you're like, yeah, that's exactly what this is.

Nick Clason (06:37):
But if this is completely new to you of faith, you're like, that is a lot and it is right? You gotta just keep that in mind like that. There are about 37 things that go into that. And so while our logo and our color scheme matter, we are asking people to do major things in their life. And so what is marketing? It's bringing about awareness of your church. It's adding value to people's lives. It's helping them commit and connect to you and your uh, organization. And then finally it's helping create, um, fans out of them disciples, super fans, people who will give their lives to the mission of Jesus and the mission of your church. So that's just a quick primer on marketing, specifically what is church marketing? But let's dive in now to nine different church marketing tips. Here we go. Church marketing. Tip number one is send emails and send plain text emails to your church.

Nick Clason (07:36):
Now what am I talking about? There's a difference between uh, plain text email, which is just white background, black text. Just like you would send an email to a friend, a coworker or your son or daughter's elementary school teacher, right? And then there are graphically designed newsletters that look amazing. It's what you'd get from Bath and Body Works or Target or Old Navy, right? And they're trying to sell you something. And a lot of times, especially foreign in church communications or foreign church marketing, we have a graphic design skill and we like to use that and show that off. We can make that newsletter if we're honest, look incredibly sexy and sleek and amazing. However, there's been a lot and considerable amounts of research shown. And it goes to show that email marketing is done best in plain text. I have a quote here from a male Munch article is from a blog, it's HTML versus plain text email and they dive deep into it.

Nick Clason (08:30):
I'll add that link there in the show notes if that's something that you're interested in. But their conclusion said this, it can be a pickle to choose one type of email, but here's the secret that no one lets you onto in email. Less is always more so less is more. And I just wanna encourage you don't lose sight of that fact. Less is more. And if less is more, you may get your message across more clearly, more concisely. Two more people. You may get more clicks, you make it more opens. And so I'll just encourage you in your email marketing, if you are doing a graphically designed thing, consider trying and beta testing and AB testing if you will. Send some graphically designed ones and then send some plain text ones and see which perform better. Church marketing tip number two, when sending emails, edit your from section and send the emails from your pastor's name.

Nick Clason (09:25):
There's a very big difference psychologically when you're getting an email from Pastor Todd as opposed to getting an email from Crossroads Church. You see what I'm saying? You're getting an email in one case from a friend, from a person, from a human being, somebody who you know, who you connect with, who you love, and then you're getting an email from an entity or, or an organization and he doesn't have to actually be from Pastor Todd. If Pastor Todd's worried about putting his name on something, then ghost write it for him and then just send it over to him to get a stamp of approval and let him make the final edits and tweaks before you send that out. But you are gonna, you are going to see your email open rates skyrocket when you're doing both plain texts and when you're sending it from Pastor Todd, because think about it, people open their emails and I don't know if you're anything like me.

Nick Clason (10:12):
I open my emails and I see junk, junk, junk, junk, junk. And then there's like one or two things that I'm like, oh, this is from a person, let me read it. And when there's something from a person that's personal, that's different, that's not the same, it's going to peak my interest differently because I actually want an email. Like if I get an email from my grandma or my grandpa, they're checking in on my life. They're trying to see how things are going. Like I don't delete that email, but I delete the Old Navy email. I delete the emails from my kid's school. I delete the emails from frankly my church because they come from not anybody, right? And all I know they are is they're just lists and bullets of announcements. Announcement, announcement, announcement. There's nothing personal in there. And here's the reality, when you are sending an email from a church, it is going to have an announcement flare to it.

Nick Clason (10:59):
So if you can personalize it a little bit more in these two ways by making it plain text, cause that's how you would send an email to a friend and by sending it from your pastor, that's gonna help your open rates skyrocket. Church marketing tip number three, give yourself one singular call to action. Call to action is just a marketing word for what are you trying to get the people that you're communicating with to do what is the one call to action or the one thing, the one action step that you're hoping that they take. Now here's the thing, we will put together a full on smorgasboard of a church newsletter, basically a bulletin board of church email stuff all in one email. And that's why we do these html amazing graphically designed newsletters cuz we can include everything and the kids ministry and the women's ministry and the senior adult ministry in the youth ministry in college of ministry.

Nick Clason (11:56):
And everyone gets their announcement in the church newsletter. And so nobody's left out and nobody has to worry it. But you will see a dramatic rise in calls to action if you give one singular call to action. Now, you might be thinking, wait a minute, you just named like five ministries just off the top of your head, that doesn't even include some of the real ones that I have in my church. How in the heck am I supposed to get all of these things communicated if I'm also only, maybe you're maybe only sending an email newsletter one time a week. Well, we fear this, right? We fear because we are afraid that some people might not know all that's going on. We also are afraid that some people won't get the info that they need. And also for just honest, we live and work in an office culture.

Nick Clason (12:42):
And so there's gonna be awkward vibes if you pick the Kids ministries announcement over the youth ministries announcement and the kids pastor loves you, but the youth pastor now hates you, right? And, and so you got that pressing on you too, and you shouldn't let that be a reason why you do it, but it is, if we're honest, we're all human, right? And so I wanna, um, link, uh, an article for you. Um, I'm gonna read a little excerpt for you, but it's from unlayer.com. It's a blog called Call to Actions and Email. And here's what it says, just a reminder of this, when you are sending to somebody, you're saying, Hey, it's a selfish world out there. And the question that they're asking is, what's in it for me? So here's what it says, what's in it for me? Selfish world out there? Why expect your audience to listen to you, right?

Nick Clason (13:25):
For them to perform your desired action, you need to highlight what's in it for them. So let's take the example of an e-book of reducing debt you're offering as a reward for subscribing to your mail list. Which call to action sounds better, download now or give me financial freedom. So as you're writing these things out, be thinking about how can you offer and provide value to these people's lives? That's what they're saying, right? Like this give me financial freedom button is gonna be a lot more appealing than simply download now because in the back of people's minds, they're thinking, what is in this for me? Now the tricky thing is you're gonna have to get really vigilant with which announcements get promoted where, especially if you're only doing one email a week and one singular call to action. But what I would do is I would choose one thing every single week, the number one thing, and send that out.

Nick Clason (14:17):
And if the entire email is focus on signing up for kids vbs and nothing else is vying for his attention, for people's attention in the email, because it's a plain text email, it's from Pastor Todd and Pastor Todd's inviting you to VBS because he's sharing a story of life change and life transformation that happened at last year's vbs. You can't help but be compelled to be like, give me that same experience and I want to invite my friends, I wanna invite my neighbors into it. And that's the email. But then next week, maybe it's not about kids, maybe it's about youth camp. The next weekend Pastor Todd's doing the same thing in a plain text email because it feels like he's emailing a friend. Narrow your emails down to one singular call to action and then you are as a, this is why you get paid to big bucks as a church communications, a church marketing manager, church, you know, marketing director, whatever your title is, to figure out how to communicate the other elements, the other announcements without just cramming more and more and more and more and more into an email.

Nick Clason (15:24):
Let me give you church marketing tip, bonus tip four or three a, um, in your emails include a PS section. A lot of times we as as, uh, humans, we just skim our emails and we, we skim, skim and then we see a PS boom. Give the same message in the body of your email as you do in the PS of an email. One singular call to action all the way down. Boom. PS don't forget it sounded from vbs. Church marketing tip number four, create for yourself a one-stop shop centralized hub. Uh, this has made famous and I have been on record on here promoting the mess out of them from the guys up at Proach Church Tools in Canada, Brady Shear. Um, and all those guys, they have made famous the idea of a central hub. They call it Nucleus. So you can go ahead to nucleus.church and make that your website's one stop shop.

Nick Clason (16:20):
So every single next step lies on your website. That's gonna help, especially if we are doing these one singular call to action emails where not everything is on your, um, not everything is on your email, but everything is on your website. And so if they go there, it's a full service bar. A lot of times we make it where it's like, Hey, if you wanna send up for vbs, go to the children's lobby and if you wanna sign up for youth camp, go talk to Pastor Doug. And if you wanna sign up for the women's brunch, you need to email Kathy. And if you're interested in the senior adult ministry, make sure that you email Harry. Um, but Harry's not here this week, so email his wife Sue today to make sure that you get, you see what I'm saying? Like we have all these different scattering spots.

Nick Clason (17:05):
The human brain is not wired and frankly not interested in remembering all those specific intricacies. But if you beat it weekly into their head, central hub, central hub, central hub. And listen, don't call it that. One church I worked at was called Liberty Heights Church. And so short lhc, right? And the centralized hub was lhc.life. In fact, we outfitted a whole section in the lobby, um, as like a next steps hub in the lobby, but we called it lhc.life. So both the web URL and the in-person room were all called the same thing. And that was it. We ingrained it from the stage, we ingrained it in our emails, we ingrained it online. lhc.life, lhc.life lhc.life eventually becomes a part of the vernacular. Um, and people know where to go when they're looking for things. Number five, I just wanna remind you, create and put your message content out there somehow.

Nick Clason (18:07):
You may or may not have the live streaming capabilities. Odds are in your church, you're at least using a soundboard. And if you're using a soundboard, you have the ability in most cases, if not with a couple of adapters, you're gonna have the ability to record your sermon audio at a minimum starting there. You can record the sermon audio, you can take that and you can put that on a podcast. Um, and you can be on Spotify, you can be on Apple Music, you can be, um, apple Podcast, all the places that you are gonna want to be on a podcast. If you do have video capabilities, I would recommend posting those to YouTube. And I also, honestly, I recommend doing a direct to camera message anyway. So if you're not pre-filing in some sort of way or, or filming your message content in like a studio type of form, pre-fill it, even if it's just on a phone or whatever, have someone edit that down and post those to YouTube and then leave your live streams as a completely different entity.

Nick Clason (19:04):
So yeah, you may have duplicate content out there, but one's gonna be aimed towards your YouTube audience and one's gonna be aimed towards just your people that are in person, right? And finally, uh, if you have the bandwidth ability margin, brain power, come up with some additional forms of content to supplement your weekend weekly messages. But put your content out there, like I said at the top right, the seniors in FSO trying to figure out where to go. This is going to be a goal mine for people as they're trying to discover your church. And it's also gonna be a goal mine for the people that can't make it every single week or don't make it every single week or aren't in the discipline yet of attending church on a Sunday morning every single week for whatever reason. They're a new believer. They're out late on a Saturday night, they just had a new baby.

Nick Clason (19:51):
So getting up early is hard and getting the baby there. Maybe you don't feel comfortable bringing the baby to the nursery, but let them still feel part of what your church has going on. All right, so what do we do when we are looking to reach people who are not yet considered a part of your church? Let me give this caveat that these are all gonna be digital marketing ideas only, not because your in-person experience doesn't matter. Your in-person experience matters greatly. I'm gonna just give the caveat that you have to crush your in-person experience. And so I'm going to carry in two assumptions with this. Number one that you are doing that, that you are attempting with all your might to make your in-person experience as rock solid as possible. But number two, this is a hybrid ministry podcast. And so I wanna focus on the areas in hybrid space, in digital space to help reach some of the people that are gonna be out there that you want to be bringing into your church.

Nick Clason (20:49):
So with that being said, maybe consider, if you really wanna market to people that are unaware of your church, really maybe consider running an ad. If you go to hybrid ministry.xyz sa slash 0 0 9, episode nine, I talk to Matt who I consider a marketing genius and guru about the step-by-step process of running an ad. Now granted, that was in 2022, and so we may need to revisit that and look at that maybe one day I'll see if I can get him back on the podcast. For those of you who don't know, he was our um, co-host on this show for like the first 12 or so episodes. And then him and I both made cross country moves and, uh, for a lot of different reasons, he did not make that jump back into podcast co-host dumb. Uh, and so maybe one day I'll bring him back on as a special guest to help us walk back through that.

Nick Clason (21:37):
Definitely not my forte. Maybe you personally have some experience doing it, so that'd be great. But if not, if you have no idea what you're doing, head there. Hybrid ministry.xyz/ 0 0 9 for a free look into that. Um, and check out how to run an ad. Number seven, uh, church marketing tip is use short form video content. Short form video content is still king. We talk about it weekly. YouTube shorts, Instagram and Facebook reels and TikTok. All four blowing up right now, all four asking for the same types of content. So create quality content in short form video versions. Post it, put it on your social media channels. And here's the other good news about it, right? Like once you've done one that does well, you can boost that or turn that into an ad. And so that will help also bring about awareness. But just in your general area, TikTok specifically shares geographically in your area first.

Nick Clason (22:34):
And so post in your area, geotag it. And then as people are experiencing and spending time on TikTok, just consuming things for themselves, they may run across on therefore you page something about your church, a video, whether it's spiritual content, fun content, marketing type content, but create some of those short form video pieces for the chance and for the opportunity to go viral. Church marketing idea number eight, this one is next level in my personal opinion. We were doing it at the church. I was at both Matt and I, the co-host I had, like I had just mentioned, um, create an ebook for your community. So one of the things that we started doing was we were creating, uh, a seasonal e-book. And so the first one we did was leading into summer and I think we titled 101 things to do in this area, like South Chicago land in this area for the summer.

Nick Clason (23:29):
And it was aimed at families with younger kids and it just gave them like park ideas, splash pad ideas. It gave them like movie night dates and places that they could go see movies under the stars or you know, whatever. Um, but then what you can do with that is if you're giving away your a right, you're adding value to people if you give some of those things away. The other thing is you can include your stuff in there. So you give them 95 ideas of things all around the community. Splash pads and parks and ice cream cone trails and all those types of things that you either borrow off of or just create, like we created our very own ice cream trail in the South Chicago suburbs area. There wasn't one in existence, but we just brain pooled our heads together, like this place, this place, this place.

Nick Clason (24:14):
It's make an ice cream trail. And then you give them like the family, like a one page tear out, you know, thing that they can use and put in their fridge and they can keep track of all the different ice cream places that they want to go throughout the summer. So you give 'em 95 ideas of just like places around. But then five ideas are your ideas and maybe you like make those colorful, you know, where you print the rest of the ebook and like black and white or whatever, but your pages are full page spreads color, whatever, and you're highlighting your church vbs, you're highlighting your own church movie nights, you're highlighting, you know, whatever stuff you are doing that would, that would be a great place for somebody not connected to your church to make an introductory connection step with your church, with your faith family and with your organization.

Nick Clason (25:03):
And then replicate that. Make a fall one winter one spring one. You see what I'm saying? Um, or it doesn't have to be that, but but think about ways in which you can add value. What you're looking to do in those is you're looking to capture people's emails, name and email. You could and should be able to do that through your church communications, um, or church marketing, uh, database. But those aren't always geared and built for marketing. So I do remember when Matt would work, um, at Parkview we used like the Rock as like a church management software, but Matt was like, I want to use HubSpot and you can do all the same stuff through HubSpot. I don't know if Matt knew all of the things that we needed, um, for like a pastoral side of things with like baptism dates, membership and whatever and whatnot.

Nick Clason (25:52):
But he knew that you could do a lot of stuff with like, um, an actual marketing tool like that. And so, um, you'll, you may have to figure out the best way to do that, to capture those names. Um, it is difficult to find a free email capture list out there, so you will more than likely have to pay for it, but it's worth it, especially if you're saying we wanna reach people who are far from God, who are not connected to our church and help get them connected to our church. The last idea, not necessarily a digital marketing idea, but word of mouth and, and you can take word of mouth and turn it into a digital marketing thing, right? Like when you're encouraging your church congregation to invite people to Easter, give them some shareable Easter graphics that they can download and share on their, their social media platforms.

Nick Clason (26:40):
You know, um, give them some of those tips and tools like, Hey, text us to a friend. Send this to a friend. Post this on your Instagram, post this on your Facebook, you know, whatever. Because that word of mouth, like while all the best ads, e-books, signs, website, like all those best things are valuable, the most valuable. It's when a friend says, Hey, you know what I've been doing recently, going to this church, going to this restaurant, reading this book. I mean, I'll say like, I was listening to a podcast the other day, we're gearing up to go on vacation here in just a couple short weeks. And I was like, I need a book. Like I need to read a book when I'm on vacation. I never do that. I always just read non-fiction books. Someone said, you know, I read such and such book and I'm not a non-fiction reader, but that book was phenomenal.

Nick Clason (27:25):
Or he's not a fiction reader, but that book was phenomenal. That's all I needed to hear. I'm also not a fiction reader. He's a pastor. I'm a pastor. That book's phenomenal. Boom, bought it. I literally got on Amazon and write that moment and bought it. Word of mouth. I have no clue who that author is. I'm sure they did all kinds of book tours, podcast marketing. I didn't listen to a single word of it, but someone else gave a word of mouth reference and boom, I bought it instantly. So think about that. Your people can become a raving fans of your church question, are they willing to be raving fans of your church or are they embarrassed by it? And if it's the latter, I would do some heavy introspection to figure out why that is. Because you want your people to be proud where they go to church so that they tell their friends, then they come, that could be digitally or that could just be very analog in a backyard barbecue scenario when they're at their kids', you know, sporting event, end of season recap or whatever, and they're just talking about stuff.

Nick Clason (28:23):
So those are some nine different church marketing ideas. Hey, hope you found them helpful. So thankful that you stuck around to the very end of this episode. If you did find it helpful, please consider shooting a rating or review alike, a subscribe, any of those things really help the algorithm and we will be forever in your debt as a token of our thanks to you for that, head to our website, hybridministry.xyz, click on blogs, click on the article that says ebook and grab your very own free copy of this e-book. TikTok. Have I already ruined my account? A complete guide, I'm posting your church's TikTok from start to finish. You're the church marketing manager, or you're the pastor and you know you need to make short form video content and you just don't know how to do it or where to turn. Take this e-book ZBook, hand it to a friend, hand it to a student, hand it to a trusted anybody who you're like, Hey, help me out with some of this stuff.

Nick Clason (29:19):
And if they don't know what they're doing, it will be their complete guide to starting from scratch, from start to finish. So hope that you find that helpful and with, again, as always, we're so grateful that you're here. Head to the episode, uh, show notes for all the links to articles and all the different things that we've referenced throughout this, this episode so far. But if you did find it helpful, please consider sharing it with a friend that would mean the absolute world to us. I'm so glad you're here. So glad you're along for the ride. This matters. What you do matters. So don't forget. And as always, stay hybrid.

Subscribe on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9pjecCnd8FVFCenWharf2g
Follow Nick on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@clasonnick
Full Episode ShowNotes & Transcripts: https://www.hybridministry.xyz/042
FREE e-book: https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/ebook

SHOWNOTES
In this episode, Nick talked about multiple brands, podcasts and areas in which he's learned things online, for a complete list see below:
YOUTUBE TRENDS EPISODE:
https://www.hybridministry.xyz/032

https://www.youtube.com/trends/report/
https://prochurchtools.com/
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/fantasy-focus-football/id260537420
https://podcast.downloadyouthministry.com/
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/down-to-dunk-okc-thunder-podcast/id599740073
https://www.strandedpanda.com/mcucast
https://theologyintheraw.com/
https://www.sonlife.com/
https://www.ramseysolutions.com/

BIBLE VERSES MENTIONED:
Hebrews 10:24-25 ESV
And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.

Colossians 3:16 ESV
Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, teaching and admonishing one another in all wisdom, singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, with thankfulness in your hearts to God.

1 Corinthians 14:26 ESV
What then, brothers? When you come together, each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. Let all things be done for building up.

Matthew 12:30 ESV
Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters.

1 Thessalonians 5:11 ESV
Therefore encourage one another and build one another up, just as you are doing.

TIMECODES
00:00-02:53 Intro
02:53-11:20 Areas in my life I've exclusively learned something online
11:20-15:10 What is a SuperFan?
15:10-20:40 Should we create SuperFans in Faith?
20:40-28:13 What does the Bible say about relationships?
28:13-31:45 3 raw and unfiltered ideas for Churches to lean into Hybrid in 2023
31:45-32:59 Outro

TRANSCRIPT
Nick Clason (00:01):
Well, hello there everybody. Welcome back to another episode and edition of the Hybrid Ministry Show. I, as always am your host, Nick Clason. Excited to be along with you on the journey. A few are on YouTube. Hello to everyone there on YouTube. If you just got this blared in your ear holes, hello to everyone there. And hey, if you're on YouTube, you didn't know we were a podcast. We are. If you are on, uh, listening in your ear holes, you didn't know we're on YouTube, we are. So check both of the show notes or check the only show notes for both of those links. http://www.Hybridministry.xyz is all the needs and all the stops and all the places and all the things that you need for this podcast. If you're on YouTube, hit the link show notes and I'll take you there, including transcripts, which we offer for free every single episode.

Nick Clason (00:54):
In this episode, we are going to be discussing and talking about areas in life in which I have learned, discovered a skill, become proficient 100% completely through online mediums. It may be a little bit controversial, but I just want to explore some other avenues and facets and areas of life beyond just a church in which I have lived into this hybrid experience in this hybrid moment. So make sure that you stick around for that and all the way for to the end, because at the end that's where I'm going to talk about three different church ideas and musings and thoughts that I have in ways that we can lean into this and engage in this just a little bit more, um, realistically and also maybe a little bit more robustly as a church start thinking hybrid a little bit more frequently. But before we do, like I said, uh, subscribe on YouTube, hit that uh, bell button so that you know when we post a video, be sure that you subscribe in your podcast catcher so that every single Thursday one of these episodes will just automatically download for you for free.

Nick Clason (02:03):
And finally, one thing that you can do for us that's free, but is an incredible, incredible way to give back is to just simply give us a quick rating or review. Open your purple podcast app on your iPhone and let us know, hey, love this show that will help us get the word out more and more about this idea of hybrid ministry. Not because we're trying to go big and go viral, but because we want to help share and spread the hope and message of Jesus through the means and channels in which God has given to us. So that would be an incredible way for you to just help us give back. And without any further chatting, without any further discussion, let's dive in to some different areas in which I and people I know have been discipled completely online. All right, so let's talk about this idea of learning something 100 and completely online.

Nick Clason (03:02):
So real quick, the definition of a disciple, just a real quick Google search elicits me this response. A follower, someone who is adherent, a disciple, a partisan mean one means one who gives full loyalty and support to another follower may apply to people who attach to a certain person mission or method. So obviously that's gonna have some religious undertones and some religious connotations. But I was listening to a podcast the other day, shout out to my one of my favorite people, Brady Sheer, Alexander Mills, those guys over at Pro Churchill's podcast. Amazing. We'll drop the link in the show notes. By the way, there are gonna be a lot of links to just things that I like in my life in this episode because I'm what I'm talking about, I'm talking about my life, I'm talking about areas and things that I'm into that I've learned from.

Nick Clason (03:48):
And so hit the link in the show notes. If anything I say sounds interesting to you, I'll try to include it there in the show notes. But I was talk, I was listening, I wasn't talking to them. I was listening to them talk to each other about areas in life in which they have been completely discipled in a certain area, skill, facet or discipline. And it got me to thinking just that was how the title and the whole scope of this episode started. I was like, Hmm, what are areas that I've learned something completely 100% online. So I'm gonna show you two from me. And I also asked my wife last night, and I'm gonna share two from her. So for me, one area that I have exclusively learned online is the art and the area of fantasy football. Now, hear me out. Okay, if you're not into fantasy football, fantasy football is a very intricate sport.

Nick Clason (04:37):
It is literally drafting real life players. Typically for me, I'm, I'm big into, um, football, not like any other sport, baseball or basketball. So real life football players. But knowing how that plays out in the fantasy realm. So you have to learn things like, like drafting strategies. You have to learn things like ADPs or average draft position. You have to know who is going to be a high scorer or one that's well sought after. You need to know people who are maybe a little more under the radar, a little more, uh, names and nuances, uh, sleepers if you will. I know like I have learned a lot from fantasy football, for example, I'll talk to my dad now, um, who was the biggest football fan I knew growing up. But now I'll talk to him and I'll mention someone like Nick Westbrook at Kenai from the Tennessee Titans.

Nick Clason (05:27):
And he's like, who? Right now I know that name. Strictly and exclusively through fantasy football means and channels. He is just a casual football fan now at this point. And he, I mean, he plays fantasy football cuz I make him in one league that we're in together. But he doesn't know some of the deeper, more nuanced discussions and people. And I thought about it and the reason I got into fantasy football is, number one, I got asked to be a part of a fantasy football league with some friends who were, uh, know, like real life friends in person at the church or at college or something like that. But then in the years to come, I was a really terrible at fantasy football because I was like my dad. I grew up watching football with my dad. And so I drafted like my dad does, like, oh, that guy's good.

Nick Clason (06:14):
But then I started listening to podcasts. That was one of my major like avenues of learning. I found podcast, ESPN Fantasy Focused Football podcast, which had Matthew Berry on it for years, all the way up until last year. However, interestingly enough, he rotated off and I think went to NBC Sports and I still choose to follow the ESPN version, but I started listening to them and I got a lot better, a lot more skilled, and I've won some leagues now as a result of it. And I want to be clear, I'm not like bragging or saying I'm some amazing fantasy football player because I'm not, because it's all luck based, but I truly, ultimately really do enjoy it. And, uh, I feel a relationship with the people in the podcast on the other end that I listened to in my ear holes. I listened to 'em on runs.

Nick Clason (07:00):
I remember, uh, last year after the very first weekend of football, uh, the first thing I wanted to do was listen to their analysis of the first week. I wanted them to help me make sense of what just happened. And so that was something that I was like longing for, striving for. So that's one example. Another example for me is honestly the area of youth ministry. I remember how it started. I was in my office. I decided to clean it out and it was going to be a massive major overhaul change. And I was like, you know what? If I'm gonna do this, I should probably like do it while also listening to something. And that was actually how I started listening to podcasts. I discovered and stumbled upon the Download Youth Ministry podcast with heroes of mine in youth ministry, Doug Fields, Joshua Griffin. They've written books and they are the co-founders of Download Youth Ministry and many other kind of subsidiary ministries and stuff after that.

Nick Clason (07:53):
But honestly, I had never even really met the guys. And up to this point, I've only met them a handful of times at this point through just different conferences and events that I've gone to. But what happened was I started listening to there at that time they called it the D YM web show, short for download. Youth ministry helped me get better, uh, at youth ministry. But at the, I think the real thing that it helped do and and they even talk about it on the shows, it helped me as a solo youth pastor in a church of under 400 people. I, I, you know, I didn't have a team. I didn't work for a team. Like I had a pastor, like a senior pastor that was my boss and that was it. I didn't have like a youth team, anything like that. And so they were sort of like my youth team place to, to listen to ideas, to chop it up, to hear things.

Nick Clason (08:40):
They helped me think through some different nuances. They would talk about events that they would do, and then I would figure out how I could bring those and adapt them. And I truly attribute a lot of my just skill and development as a youth pastor professionally to them, to their podcast. Now, in both of my cases, fantasy Football and the Download Youth Ministry podcast, those happened through, uh, podcasts obviously, right? And uh, that's just, that is a means. That is a avenue. Okay? Um, similarly, I asked this question last night as I was preparing for this show to my wife. I was like, what are some areas in life that you have learned or become proficient at completely online? She gave two answers. Her answers were a couple years ago. She used to be a seller on Etsy. She would make decorative wooden signs and she would sell them.

Nick Clason (09:31):
And she did quite well at it. Actually. She quit her nursing job in an effort to be able to do that. But I remember she learned and discovered the idea and, um, practice best practices of things like search engine optimization on Etsy, how to create good and um, proper listings that are gonna help you get indexed well in search as well as thumbnails and how to do that and all those types of things. And she learned almost all of that through a Facebook group that she discovered that had, uh, just like an Etsy seller Facebook group of people kind of go back and forth, give tips, tricks of the trade. And then another area, um, in the last probably two years or so, she's gotten really into just nutrition, the power of food and how important food is. Food is fuel to your body. Um, and not like dieting per se to just like lose weight, but really like to pursue health, um, in how to do like swaps from the standard American diet, what to avoid, what things to know and look for.

Nick Clason (10:31):
And for her, she said the area, um, that she really found, uh, interesting, um, in to, to learn all of that was mostly through Instagram and following Instagram accounts. And so in those, for examples, so fantasy football, youth ministry, Etsy sellers, and then like the area of nutrition to me, to my wife, almost 100% of our knowledge, 100% of our, uh, development in those areas happened through online mediums and online channels. Now, don't turn it off, don't freak out. Let's expound upon this just a little bit more and let's bring in some of the church implications and some of the theological conclusions that we, uh, should wrestle with and come to. Now, I will also say, before we dive into some of the theological stuff, I will also say that this sort of idea, especially if you remember me talking about, um, in the last little segment about me wanting to hear the analysis from week one, that is a current YouTube trend.

Nick Clason (11:38):
I'll drop the link to the episode where I expanded upon the YouTube trends report from 2022 in the show notes. But that is a thing that people are, uh, eager for. So uhno, another area, probably the biggest that I am nerding out on in being a super fan is I am a Oklahoma City Thunder basketball fan. And I wanna listen to what the guys on down to Dunk have to say about just about every game, everything that happens, trades off season moves, like it'll happen and that'll be one thing. But then what I most look forward to is, again, the analysis that these guys have as experts in the field as people who talk about it a lot. Similarly, I'll also do that like over the weekend on Saturday, my wife and I went and saw Antman in the WASP quantum mania, and I immediately went and downloaded the Marvel Cinematic Universe podcast, Antman in the WASP Quantum Mania recap episode because I wanna hear all they have to say, I watched the movie, I like the movie, but they're gonna think deeper about it.

Nick Clason (12:41):
They're gonna have theories about it. And so that is like this idea of a super fan as someone who attaches to pop culture, but with people who have more analysis to it and in all of these things, right? Like there's something there that can be done in the church space. Now, I wanna get to that in a minute, but before we do, I want to chat through and just think through like in all these things. I learned a lot through podcasts. I learned a lot through y or podcasts and or long form YouTube accounts. My wife learned a lot through like Facebook groups or following Instagram accounts. Um, and neither one of us really honestly said anything about TikTok or short form video content. However, uh, both of the things that the question, right? Was what are areas in which you feel that you've become an expert in through something completely online.

Nick Clason (13:33):
And I don't, I think my reason for why that would be the case is that, um, most of the areas you become an expert in, it takes time and TikTok and Instagram reels, they just haven't been here for that long of time. But one thing that is interesting to note is that I think that what is, uh, what you discover online in Instagram reel, Instagram reels or TikTok short form video, sort of like formats is you discover new people and new pieces of content, it's harder in those mediums to create super fans. So I think those are there for discoverability. And then I think your goal is to get them to follow for more, to save for later or to get them to watch something longer or listen to something longer that you already produce. So you wanna like just get discovered, find something niche, and then have them, uh, come follow you somewhere else on.

Nick Clason (14:30):
Um, honestly, and unfortunately, so those platforms are massive and huge right now. However, I think that they are, they help create a, a pathway and a funnel step for those people to, to dive deeper. There are TikTok ERs, Instagram real people that I love to follow, um, when I see them pop up on my for you page, but not my, that's not how I engage with them. That's not how I engage with people. I get on there and I just start going on my for you page. And whatever the algorithm feeds me is what it feeds me. I'm not on there specifically looking or searching for a person or specific, uh, niche piece of content at that moment. I was thinking about this last night, but I don't have a personal relationship with any of the people that I have mentioned or that I have learned from in these areas.

Nick Clason (15:21):
I would love to, but it's honestly almost never realistic for a lot of different reasons. Maybe one, like the distance of where they live in physical proximity to where I live, or just simply the size and scope of their platform that, um, they, this is how they get their messaging out to the masses and the multitudes because they are so big and they are, they do have such a large scope. And so, uh, when I do find another fan, a person who also listens to this podcast, a person who also is following some certain Instagram account, in my wife's case, we have an immediate connection around our fandom or following of this particular thing. And so I wanted to think through why does scripture discipleship disciple making the Bible? Why doesn't it feel that that same way, like if I find someone who's another down to dunk fan, we're immediately vibing on that.

Nick Clason (16:23):
But when I find someone who's another Christian, do I immediately vibe with them? And I've never really thought about it, right? Because one is like pop culture and one is like faith. And those are two categorically different things. I get it. However, there are some similarities to it, like in this, like we are following like the same people over here in faith, we're following the same people, right? We're following Jesus of Nazareth, the guy who was discipled, uh, discipled people and then murdered for who he claimed to be, but then rose again three days later. And so I wonder like, is is faith, is Christianity not niche enough? Like is it too mainstream? Is it too much in the public eye? Uh, or is there too much diversity of opinion? Or is is it like you find someone but you don't like, I mean, I'll, I'll give you an example.

Nick Clason (17:20):
I'm kind of just workshopping this in my brain, but like I will find people who say they're Christians and I'm just immediately kinda like, I, I take a step back as opposed to a step in. And maybe it's because there's some spiritual element going on. Satan doesn't want me to connect or whatever. Or maybe I, I like personally I'm leery because I just don't know where they're coming from. And so instead of like assuming things or whatever, I just kind of like nod and smile and keep going. Maybe that's just what's baked into our culture, right? You don't talk about finances, you don't talk about religion and you don't talk about politics. And maybe because religion finds itself in that category of taboo and things you don't talk about, maybe that's why I don't talk about it. Maybe it's because I'm already a pastor and I'm deeper in it than most people who are just, uh, churchgoers.

Nick Clason (18:12):
I don't know what the reason is, but as I'm like just thinking these things out and teasing these things out, there should be a connection. I mean, that's literally one of the things that we talk about as followers of crisis, that we have this connection that despite any of our other differences, that unifies us and brings us together because we identify with the work and person of Jesus. And so therefore that should be what drives us, and that should also be an area that can connect us one another. So, um, an example of that actually of areas that I may connect with people around faith are, or maybe other people who listen to other things or connected to other organizations that I too am connected with. I think about like theology in the Raw Podcast done by Preston Sprinkle. And I think about people who listen to that.

Nick Clason (19:03):
If I found out a Christian listen to that, I would immediately have a different type of connection than just a casual, I'm a Christian, um, or someone who's connected to a ministry organization that I have grown up being connected to called Sun Life. If I knew that, I'd be like, oh, you're a Sun Life person. That makes sense. In fact, that's one of the major reasons in which I took the job I took here in Texas. I found out that a lot of the leadership had been, uh, trained in the Sun Life way of doing things, which sounds like a cult, but really it's just they're trying to model after the, the work of Jesus and what he did in his life, not just his death on the cross, but his life that he modeled and, you know, inviting people to, to come and see he'd follow me, that he'd make them fishes of men and then challenging them to go on and and bear much fruit.

Nick Clason (19:49):
So there are opportunities for that, but I just think like for some reason there's not that connection. And I want to figure out how we can do that and what that might look like. And it, I don't know that that's necessarily only conforming to the ways of this world. However, I do think there are some things that we can learn from the, the ways of the world, the pop culture, the super fan ideas that can help us in creating some of those moments, um, in, in faith, in cul in, in faith, and in our, um, followership of Jesus. So let's, let's dive a little bit deeper. Um, and let's, let's talk a little bit more about the actual discipline of learning some of these skills, um, and how that can be translated from not just like niche pop culture things, but how can we actually do that as faith communities.

Nick Clason (20:40):
So one of my learnings, and this might terrify you, so don't call me a heretic and turn this off when I say this, but you can learn a skill without a relationship with the other person. Now, I think a lot of times we learn from other people, but I think that you can learn a skill devoid of relationships with other people. I just evidenced four examples for real life examples. And there are more. I mean, I talked about like theology in the raw, sun life, thunder, basketball, marvel cinematic universe. I mean, another one that's just coming to my brain right now is finances through Dave Ramsey. I've met the man one time when I went, went down and did my debt-free scream. But after and beyond that, I've learned all I've learned about him through digital means and digital mediums. I also think, and sometimes churches find themselves falling prey to this, that you can exclusively meet in person with no digital or hybridization options on Sunday mornings and on Wednesday nights.

Nick Clason (21:44):
And you can say we don't do any of those other things because that's not how you learn. That's not how you become a disciple. And so you meet on Sundays and you meet on Wednesdays, but you never actually experience any life transformation because you haven't really done anything other than quote unquote meeting together in person you've met in person. But that is all that there is in their relationship. There's nothing more beyond that. There's no actual relationship that happens Monday through Friday. It only happens on Sunday morning in the allocated space. And I think that that is really my biggest argument for hybrid just because you meet in person once a week and you're like, we're all about this. Where else are you leaning into these things? Because if you're not creating more moments for people to connect to those relationships, cuz mind you, I have said you can learn disciplines and things in other areas without a relationship.

Nick Clason (22:49):
However, the church does often start with a relationship. So I'm not saying to take that and throw that baby out with the bathwater, but what I am saying is that you can have those relationships and offer more growth, offer more opportunities for people to attach to this faith community here in the other days throughout the week. Let's talk about some of the biblical basis for relationships. I'm gonna read for you several verses here, and then at the end I'm gonna, uh, give you a couple of observations. So probably the, the most famous meeting together verse comes from the book of Hebrews chapter 10 verses 24 and 25. All of these come out of the ESV that says, and let us consider how to stir one another up to love and good works, not neglecting to meet together as as the habit of some, but encouraging one another and all the more as you see the day of the Lord drawing near Colossians chapter three 16 says, let the word of Christ dwell richly in you teaching and admonishing one another in all wisdom, singing Psalms and hymns and spiritual songs with thankfulness in your heart to God.

Nick Clason (24:03):
First Corinthians 1426 says, what then, brothers, when you come together, each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. Let all things be done for building up. Matthew chapter 12, verse 30 says, whoever is not with me is against me. And whoever does not gather with me scatters First Thessalonians five 11 says, therefore encourage one another and build one another up. Just as you are doing, let's look also to the life of Christ, his life with his disciples. His invitation, like I said, was, uh, to invite them to just come and see, to explore. Then ultimately he gave them a challenge, Hey, come follow me, drop your nets and come follow me. And then he gives him a further command. And this is where the sacrifice and servanthood often comes in of following Jesus is not just to follow me, but he's going to change you, transform you and make them into fishers of men.

Nick Clason (24:56):
And then finally in John chapter 15, we see the verse about the vine and the branches and abiding. And he says, you, I want you now to be called friends and I want you to bear much fruit. So I want you to do what I just did. If you walk with Christ and first John, it says, if you walk with, uh, if you want to follow Christ, you must walk as he walked and live as he lived. So what are the ways in which he lived? He invited people to come and see, uh, earth first. He, yeah, yeah, he invited 'em to come and see, then he invited them to follow him. Then he was gonna change them, transform them, make them into fishes of men until finally then he would, uh, send them out to bear much fruit and repeat and replicate that process of multiplication.

Nick Clason (25:42):
So in all those verses and in the method of Jesus, all of those things are done in person and can be done in person. Yes. And also they can be done in hybrid spaces as well. And I don't just mean like zoom small groups and online church streaming. What I mean is I have a lot of relationships with people across the country in Facebook groups. I have relationships with people that on regular, ongoing basis, I have a once a week phone call with a friend of mine from college where we do accountability and talk through each other's lives. I have a once a month coaching call with people that I do do on Zoom, uh, or that I do do just through a regular old phone call. Like there are other channels and places to enhance relationships that aren't just Sunday morning at 10 30.

Nick Clason (26:34):
You see what I'm saying? Like that's what I'm trying to say. Like it doesn't have to only fit into that mold and that hurts our brain. And that freaks some of us out, especially some of us who adhere to a more traditional stance on gathering together in church. But what I'm saying is not that we should forsake that, but what I am saying is that you can't, someone who's truly interested in something, some sort of discipline can be challenged to learn more through some other additional methods and means. And if you're really into it, like I was about thunder basketball or my wife was about nutrition, they will eat those things up. However, what we've done is we've reduced commitment down to one single metric in the church. And that's church attendance. And here's the thing, that's not an indication of a disciple, but because we've reduced it down to church attendance, what we do is we've actually dumbed down the commitment to the point where we say, Hey, let's get the most amount of attendance here.

Nick Clason (27:32):
And so let's reduce the level of commitment to as low the lowest common denominator as possible. Get the most amount of people here. Oh look, now we have the most amount of butts in seats. Look at our church growth. And the reality is, is that you can offer more, but you're afraid to because the metrics may not make it seem worth it. And you though you can be offering something actually useful and actually beneficial to people to help them grow in their faith, to make spiritual decisions, to foster spiritual life transformation. We don't, we hold back because it doesn't offer the same return that Sunday morning at 10 30 offers. And that's a tough pill to swallow.

Nick Clason (28:14):
So let's round this thing out. Like I said at the top, here are three in live time unchallenged things that could be done, but I don't have exact frameworks for that. You could maybe begin to start thinking through in churches. The first is podcasts more than just your Sunday sermon from your lead pastor, but podcasts in certain areas, certain disciplines, certain classes, maybe like through the Old Testament, new Testament letters of Paul. I mean, think, think, go to like maybe a seminary catalog. What are things that they're offering students in seminary? And what are things that you have the bandwidth or maybe should make the bandwidth to create, to help encourage and equip your people to become more well versed in their knowledge of scripture? See, our our normal response to that is, oh, let's host a class. And, uh, there's nothing wrong with hosting a class, but what if someone's not available when you decide to host a class, but they still want to engage in it?

Nick Clason (29:14):
Is there a way to do both? Or instead of hosting the class, realizing that for you as a pastor, hosting a class often requires an evening time commitment from say, seven o'clock until eight 30. Or if you sit down and record a podcast, you can do that during your normal office nine to five office time. You see what I'm saying? There might be a greater return on that. And then you can offer that class for something different, better, more robust that you're hoping to do. Similarly, you could do either YouTube or, or not hosting on YouTube, but some other platform, video based type classes. You can do like a six week class on navigating grief. You can do an eight week class on lust and purity. You can do a seven week class on, um, the, the methodology of following Jesus. You can do a 10 week class on spiritual gifts.

Nick Clason (30:09):
See, there's all kinds of different ways out there, and I hear the rebuttals right now, and I hear them even in my own brain. Yeah, but I don't wanna put something out there that someone could take and misconstrue. And that might be true. However, if you're not doing it that way, where are you doing it? People do need to know these things. They need to know how to navigate grief and they need to know about lust and period. And they need to know about the ways of follow Jesus. And they need to know about their spiritual gifts. And you probably don't have the bandwidth in your current schedule to offer all those at the same time. Maybe you're the only pastor or you only have one pastor, and so he has to host one class and then move to the next class and then move to the next class.

Nick Clason (30:44):
Or he could offer them all by shooting them on a video, on a phone or whatever the case might be. And offering them, offering them through YouTube via playlist, offering them on some video course thing that's a little bit more, got a little bit more accountability built into it or whatever. The final idea is just ongoing devotionals and or reading plans that you can offer. You can, uh, curate or create you version reading bible plans. You can, um, write your own, you can get your whole church reading through a certain thing if you're in like a sermon series. And John, for example, you can, while you're in the Book of John, you can have people reading through the book of John together in their daily quiet time, giving them something to do, something to turn to in their, uh, daily quiet time discipline. So those are just three kind of ideas, like I said, un unchallenged, un uh, not not seeing a lot of people doing them, but just ideas to continue to lean into some of those hybrid moments.

Nick Clason (31:46):
Well, once again, everyone's so glad you're here. Thank you for sticking to the end. I hope I didn't step on toes too hard, but I do want to get us thinking more and more in this way. I know for me, I experience as a pastor a lot of in-person moments and I get frustrated when I see the church not thinking through some of these other avenues that are available to them that they're just not really doing anything with. And so I hope that this is helpful to you. I hope you see it as an encouragement. If you're listening to this podcast, you probably already think this way. And so share it with someone who might be helpful for them to think in a new way. As always, a rating, a review, a subscribe, all those things are incredibly helpful. You can follow me on my YouTube channel link in the show notes or my TikTok account, which I do post two of these for every single episode, uh, throughout the week. So go grab those along with some other, um, church communications, church social media and church marketing tips type thoughts. Those all on my social media, both on TikTok and also on YouTube in the shorts category. But hey, until next time, and as always, stay hybrid.

Entire Show: http://www.hybridministry.xyz/038
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FREE e-book: https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/ebook

TIMECODES
00:00-01:55 Intro
01:55-06:25 The Instagram Usage Statistics of 2023
06:25-08:23 The Instagram Feed Grid for Churches in 2023
08:23-10:03 Instagram Stories in Churches in 2023
10:03-12:10 Instagram Reels for Churches in 2023
12:10-14:59 3 Things to do on Instagram in 2023
14:59-16:40 3 Things to avoid on Instagram in 2023
16:40-17:48 How to Utilize stories on Instagram in 2023
17:48-19:21 How to Utilize Instgram Reels in 2023
19:21-20:41 Instagram Content Strategy Idea for 2023
20:41-22:45 Outro

TRANSCRIPT
Nick Clason (00:01):
Hey everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Hybrid Ministry Show. I, as always am your host, Nick Clason. Thrilled and excited to be with you. We are going to be continuing on through our six part church social media framework and this is actually the very final piece, um, of actual social networks. The next episode we're gonna talk website, text groups, email list, um, which is a little cheating cuz it's more than six, I get it. But that's what we're gonna look and chat, look at, and chat through next week. We are gonna round it out with Instagram today. Excited to be with you Before we dive in, a, uh, would love to encourage you to hop into your podcast app hitter rating hitter review. That would be an incredible resource and an incredible gift to us. We will be thrilled if that's something that you will be willing to do.

Nick Clason (00:56):
So please take time to do that. Also, we are on YouTube, so hit the show notes for a link to YouTube. If you're watching on YouTube, we're a podcast. So hit the link in the show notes to check out our podcast episode, um, website hybridministry.xyz. And for each and every single episode, we provide for you 100% free of charge transcripts. So if you're on a run and you're hearing something and you're thinking, man, that was really good, I want to go back and look at that a little bit more. I want to extrapolate that out. You can head to the link in the show notes. We will link this exact episode to the link in the show notes hybridministry.xyz/038. Once again, thrilled to be with you. Glad that you guys are here. And without any further ado, let's dive in and start talking about Instagram as a part of your church's six step social media framework.

Nick Clason (01:56):
All right, let's talk Instagram. So, um, again, if you, uh, did not watch last episode, uh, or listened to it, I would definitely recommend going back and doing it because in our order we want YouTube, TikTok, Facebook, Instagram. And the primary reason for putting Facebook ahead of Instagram was, I personally have found it easier to start with Facebook link my two accounts, Instagram and Facebook. Um, on the Facebook side you can try and start linking 'em through Instagram side, but you're eventually gonna end up over needing to do your meta business suite. And that that's just the easiest place to start is Facebook. And so if you're starting from scratch, start with Facebook, but don't abandon or neglect Instagram because Instagram is actually an incredibly used and um, popular resource among Americans. So, uh, just a couple quick Instagram hit quick hitter stats before we dive into actual strategy around it.

Nick Clason (02:52):
In the US there are 127.2 million Instagram users, uh, in the United States in the year 2023 alone. Uh, Snapchat, conversely is at 89.5 and TikTok is at 89.7 according to stati statistica.com. I'll link some of the stuff in the show notes. Some other interesting, um, stats and statistics is the age breakdown is that male users are at 51.8%. Female users are at 48.2%. Um, the age breakdown on Instagram, 13 to 17 year olds are 8% of the usage. Um, where 18 to 24 year olds are at 30.8% of the usage. 25 to 34 year olds are at 30.3% of the usage. 35 to 44 year olds are at 15.7% of the usage. 45 to 55 year olds, 8.4% of the usage, 55 to 64 year olds, 4.3% of the usage and then 65 plus are at 2.6% of the usage of people on Instagram. Now that being said, you can see that the data skews young, but there's a giant, a giant spike between the ages of 18 and 35.

Nick Clason (04:16):
Again, my guess is as a church, uh, we did this, this thing with the unstuck organization a couple years ago with the church I worked at and uh, they said it well. They're like, you obviously wanna reach all people and be all things to all people. However, you probably also want to kind of hone in on a demographic and you don't wanna pick one over the other. But once you hone in on one, what you do notice a lot of times is that the other demographics are attracted to just you having some sort of vision. And so my guess is that the demographic, the target demographic that you're attempting to reach if you're a younger church or if you're going to at least try and reach the next generation with kids and students, is that you're gonna wanna squarely reach between 18 and 34. Like that is probably your prime shot and you're probably weak on that 18 to 25, 18 to 30 pre-k um, spot.

Nick Clason (05:12):
And the reason I know that is cuz just about every church in America is actually kinda weak at that. However, uh, I think that that is still squarely a good demographic to be, um, targeting and and trying to to go after. All right, some other quick Instagram stats, Instagram story, daily active users are at 50, uh, 500 million plus. Uh, the number of businesses on Instagram are 200 million plus. And um, there are 0.59% of Instagram accounts with over 1 million followers. So Instagram, as you can tell, are is still incredibly, um, active. It's still incredibly popular while is very much on the rise, um, and has been challenging Some of these legacy platforms like Instagram, like Facebook, Instagram still has a place, in fact, just like anecdotally, like I prefer TikTok, but my wife, she watches short form videos, but she chooses to do so in the Instagram reels section of Instagram.

Nick Clason (06:16):
Which leads us to our next section. Let's talk about some of the different features, um, that you can find and can use on Instagram. All right, the first feature is the Instagram feed. Now this is probably the thing that if you are just logging into Instagram for the first time, the first thing you're gonna see is the spot where people post pictures and you scroll. Instagram made the scroll endlessly. Like that was them. They made that, uh, popular and then they made all their social media sort of adapt to that. In fact, I remember the update when Facebook went from side swiping photos to you could click on a photo and you could swipe this way. They did that in response to Instagram. I don't know if that was before or after they acquired it, but nonetheless, like Instagram has been very popular and has made a lot of important headway in the world, um, of social media.

Nick Clason (07:07):
And so the feed is probably your legacy platform. It's also your social graph spot where you are following the people that you want to follow. Um, and so you get on there, you'd scroll and you'd see, oh, so and so just, you know, they just went on a trip to Brazil. I'm gonna check that out. I'm gonna like it, I'm gonna comment, I'm gonna share. That's what happens on the Instagram feed. I do also think that the Instagram feed was one of the first places where the highly curated look became popularized. And I do think that some of the platforms like TikTok, like Snapchat and even like be real, have um, swung the pendulum back is because they are pushing back against some of the highly curated social media, uh, places. And so they're looking to find a place where you can actually come in, be yourself, be real, show the unfiltered version of yourself.

Nick Clason (08:00):
And so the whole perfectly edited, perfectly airbrushed photos and curated. I think that that is starting to wane, especially with the newer and younger generation. And so while Instagram and its feed definitely has a position in this six step social media framework, I do think that it is probably one that has grown the most tired and people have grown the most weary of over the years. Let's talk about Instagram's stories. If you log into your Instagram app on your phone across the top, they're little circle icons of different accounts. Uh, and if you like navigate onto an account and there's like a little yellow, not yellow purple or like pink the Instagram gradient, uh, ring around it that indicates that they have a story. Well, when you log into your app immediately right across the top, if there are icons up there, almost inevitably that means that those people have used their stories.

Nick Clason (08:53):
So that was made popular by the social media Snapchat. It was an idea that you could post something that would last for 24 hours. And so a lot of video, a lot more unfiltered, a lot less curated, a lot more behind the scenes, a lot more just real life. And Instagram stories was an amazing platform and one that um, I think a lot of churches took advantage of and honestly can still take advantage of, like I think for example, really great strategies to just hand that over to someone on your staff once a week and have them do a day in the life. A takeover, a takeover Tuesday. Um, we do it at like on Wednesdays cuz that's our ministry night at our church. And so, um, someone is in charge of taking over the Instagram account either, you know, on a Wednesday all day during the day, uh, to lead into, you know, Wednesday night coming up for, for students or whatever.

Nick Clason (09:44):
So I think Instagram stories have grown in popularity. Uh, statistic I have here says that 86%, approximately 86% of Instagram users access their stories on a daily basis. So it's still a very popular feature and still one that's very much widely being used by Instagram users today. Let's talk about Instagram reels. The reason most of us are here, especially in 2022 with short form video content, Instagram also stole another feature. Just like they stole stories from Snapchat. They stole reels in that idea from the popular app. TikTok Instagram introduced reels into their platform in August of 2020. Um, it's the same basic premise of what you get on TikTok. Scroll endlessly use trending sounds, do silly dances. One thing that's interesting to note is about a year ago or six months ago or so, Instagram recently converted every single video on their platform from whatever it was over to a reel.

Nick Clason (10:43):
So for example, I don't know if you remember, there was this platform called I G T V Instagram tv. They're trying to kind of go after YouTube and the long form video pieces, however they went for vertical where YouTube was still focusing on horizontal. Every one of my and i I went in on I G T V when it was new. I used it a lot personally. I used it a lot in my ministry. They've converted all of those I gtv videos over to Rio so they don't sit under an I G T V tab anymore or over an I G T V app, which was its own thing. Which not sure why Instagram felt the need to add a whole nother app that you could still access through their normal app. Nonetheless, I digress. But now you can still find old legacy I G T V videos sitting under your Instagram reels tab.

Nick Clason (11:28):
That's where all of those have been converted and now that's where they sit. So, uh, Instagram reels, uh, has become very popularized and um, Instagram has gone in to say that we are, we are about reels now. This is our thing. They have recently come out with a little algorithm shift in saying that they do want to push, um, photos, again, not just reels. And so, uh, we'll dive into the Instagram algorithm change in a future episode, but for now, still know that in 2023 I think your strategy should be short form video content. And that does definitely and very much include Instagram real. Let's talk best and worst content strategies for Instagram. Here are three dues on Instagram. Do number one, do post pictures of people in your church congregation. A couple years ago, Brady Sheer went out and did this study. Uh, it was just an anecdotal study, but he took a, uh, cell phone and then you hired a, a photographer and they took pictures in the same day.

Nick Clason (12:34):
And, uh, the people could not really tell the difference between the cell phone photos and the actual like professionally graded photos. The point in the premise of that is that in your pocket you have the power of an incredibly strong camera that you can use to take photos of people in your church congregation. So take on a Sunday morning, on a Wednesday night, whenever your primary meeting time is, take those photos, post them and use them on the feed. That can almost be your entire content strategy for on the feed. Now there is a probably decent chance that you already have some sort of rhythm with a photographer, whether it be volunteers or whatever, who are regularly taking photos for you. Keep that going. I still think that pictures of people with smiling faces posted on your social media is still a relevant, meaningful, and purposeful content strategy in 2023.

Nick Clason (13:28):
Content strategy number two is repost your reels. So what I mean by that is, like we said, Instagram is all in on short form video content here in 2023. When you go to post a reel, you have an option to either add it to the feed or take or hide it from your profile grid most often, cuz I, you've heard me say in past episodes perhaps that I post three uh, TikTok slash reels a day. So I don't post all three of those to the feed, but I do choose one that I want to post to the feed. So for example, we will often have fun, silly, goofy content, um, but one of them is gonna be serious. And I often choose to post that one to the feed so that more of our church people are seeing it. So use the Instagram post to feed option as a way to supplement your Instagram strategy, especially on your Instagram feed.

Nick Clason (14:20):
Also use some funny content. We talked about this in the YouTube trends report, but essentially 63% of Gen Z followed a meme account in the last year. And, um, gen Z and and people on social media are looking for brands and people to repurpose and use funny meme based silly kind of content like that. So use that stuff. Use memes on in short form video, use static memes. Um, we do a meme Monday and I think that there's a market for that even if you're not youth ministry. So don't be afraid to be funny. Don't be afraid to lean in and try and create a laugh moment. Here's some things to avoid on Instagram. Avoid announcements and graphics. Okay? Those just simply don't perform very well and people do not get on social media to be announced at or have been told what's coming up next.

Nick Clason (15:14):
If all you're doing on your social media is announcing things and reminding people about events, change your strategy. There is a way to incorporate announcements but still use the medium of the day. So, for example, you can do trending meme sounds, dances, things like that, that are reals, that are tos. However you can do those that are funny about like the upcoming event. So for example, last summer or spring as we were leading into summer camp, there was a, a trending sound that I found that is something like, it smells like a public restroom in here. And I just created a thing with like a green screen background, like a cabin type vibe, right? And I said, P o v, which stands for point of view pov middle school boys cabin at camp. And then I posted it, right? That's a, that's a camp adjacent announcement.

Nick Clason (16:03):
It's different than just a graphic for hey Santa for summer camp, right? But, uh, it still gets to point across. So don't just post graphics and announcements. Also with whatever you do, avoid stock footage. You may now have photos of people send someone this week to take photos of people in your church and boom, you'll have photos of people. Please while you are getting things up and running on your website or your Instagram, avoid photos of people because it's disingenuine. It's not who your church is. It's not true representation of the people in your church. It is a paid version of the people in your church. So do not use stock footage, especially on the Instagram feed. What do we do about stories? I would still use stories. Um, and I used to be all in on a story strategy and try and posting something every single day.

Nick Clason (16:50):
Uh, you still can be, but with as many reels as I post now I can supplement kind of some of that content. We'll get that to that in a minute. Um, bond stories I would recommend using the just the Instagram stories editor. You can use things like the question sticker. You can use things like the poll sticker. The link sticker, which is an amazing resource to have. The emoji slider tool. Like how much do you like this? All the way up, all the way down countdowns. You can do takeovers, like I said. Uh, you can spam your stories during big events. Spam is just a turmoil, like you just overwhelm it and you have so many little dots across the top. Um, you can give it over to a friend, a volunteer, a student to, to post to, to make it feel like you are in the moment of the event.

Nick Clason (17:34):
You can also kind of create a little bit of FOMO with that. So I definitely recommend still using and utilizing your Instagram stories feature. It's a place where you can post content that doesn't have to go on your feet and kind of like live there forever. Finally, Instagram reels. You know that my preferred strategy personally is to post three Instagram reels a day. And when I say Instagram reels often I post it in TikTok first, then I copy the link, then I go to a browser that says download, um, download TikTok video without watermark, paste the link in there, download it, and then I go post it over to Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube shorts. Yes, there's a lot of manual work and very recently, and we're gonna do a review on this here soon, I've come across a, um, posting tool for you. And so right now I'm trying a third party service and I don't like it very much.

Nick Clason (18:29):
And I'll tell you why in a minute. In a future episode, I'm gonna also try posting some stuff through the native apps, um, of TikTok of the Meta Business suite, uh, to see if that does anything for me. However, I'm just gonna be honest with you, I like posting in live time. Yeah, sometimes it's annoying cuz it, you know, I'm reminded I have to do it and it pops up at a very inconvenient time, but I still like that idea and I can edit things right on my phone that way. Otherwise I have to do all of my editing, a hundred percent of my editing in like, uh, computer software and, and save it to a hard drive somewhere to access it later. And, and that's sometimes a little bit inconvenient, but you should be leaning into Instagram real content. You can use it to supplement what goes on your feet.

Nick Clason (19:13):
You can use it to supplement what goes in your stories and I would definitely recommend, um, going all in on it. So just a quick reminder and recap. What I do and what I use on my personal Instagram at our church is we do a me Monday, which are photos on the feed. We do a Tuesday message recap from the previous Wednesday. Remember, we're a student ministry. That's a reel. I also post that to my feed Wednesday night. I do a either a carousel post of 10 photos of students or a highlight video, um, of that night and post that to the feed. If I don't post a video to the feed, it's cuz I posted photos, but I'm still posting the reel. Uh, Thursday we do a recap video of the message from the night before. And then on Friday I like to do, um, a photo dump of the Wednesday.

Nick Clason (20:00):
So that's, if I, if I don't do it on Wednesday, I'll save it for Friday and do a photo dump there on Friday. Then I'll inter intermix, uh, different, uh, story stuff, like mostly just real, uh, stuff, things, honestly, I go to reels, things that don't perform super well, and I repost 'em to my story so that people still see them. Uh, and then I'll do a takeover once a week. And that's primarily our Instagram strategy for now. So most of it's kind of built out and happening over in Instagram reels, a few things on feed to make sure that we're still showing up and stories, but the most, most of it's all kind of happening reels. And you, you look here, like we do, uh, a photo dump and a meme post. And that's basically it for like static photo posts. Hey, well once again, thanks for sticking around to the end of the episode.

Nick Clason (20:46):
Hey, to all of you on YouTube, hello to all of you listening and your earbuds on a run. So glad that you joined us. We are done with social media. We have one final, uh, area. We're gonna focus on website and, uh, text messaging and email and how do those all work together with social media. And then we're gonna put it all together. So join us in the next episode. So we have done, uh, YouTube, we have done TikTok, we've done Facebook, we've done Instagram. We will do those other platforms, website, social media, uh, website, texting and email. And then finally, part six, we're gonna put it all together and say, Hey, here is your church content, social media strategy for 2023. So glad you joined us. Hey, if you have not grabbed your e-book, how to create a TikTok from start to finish. As you heard in this episode, it, Instagram is still very much in on reels.

Nick Clason (21:37):
So if you need to create some reels, uh, you can do that and learn how to do that through the TikTok editor and by posting a TikTok and do it all on TikTok, download it. Boom, go over post it on a reel. So there you go. There's your ebook. Go check that out at our website, link in the description below. Subscribe wherever you're listening, subscribe maybe wherever you're watching. So good that you joined us, we would love it if you could drop a five star rating or review just to help us get the word out. We want more people to become aware of the incredible message of Jesus, how important it is to be leaning into the hybrid hybridization of your church. I'll just add some friends over last night from our, from the church I work at, they're all a little bit younger and every single one of 'em was like, yeah, we want more hybrid. We're all trying to think and lean into that direction. So, uh, it is the wave of the future, so don't shy away from it. Try to lean into it. Try something new this week and don't forget, and as always, stay.

SHOWNOTES
FREE EBook "Have I already Ruined my TikTok account?" https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/ebook
Check out the YouTube Video for that:
https://youtu.be/oxBn-p9O-eg
Follow Josh on TikTok
https://www.tiktok.com/@mr_chasteen101
Follow Nick on TikTok
https://www.tiktok.com/@clasonnick
For All things Hybrid Ministry
http://www.hybridministry.xyz

TIMECODES
00:00-02:23 Intro
02:23-09:44 How it all Started with Mr Chasteen
09:44-15:00 The TikTok that changed everything
15:00-18:03 What do your family members think of all this craziness?
18:03-22:04 How does TikTok allow you to connect with students for ministry and relationships?
22:04-26:35 The death of curation and content
26:35-27:55 What's the funniest or most fun you've had on TikTok?
27:55-29:47 As a teacher, what's one piece of advice you'd give to pastors or ministry leaders?
29:47-31:26 Outro

TRANSCRIPT
Nick Clason (00:01):
What is up everybody? Welcome to another episode of the Hybrid Ministry podcast. I'm your host, Nick Clason. And hey, if you have not already, make sure that you jump into the show notes or head to http://www.hybridministry.xyz to grab your free ebook for how to know if you have already ruined your TikTok account. It is your guide, complete guide from start to finish on how to post a TikTok and how to start flooding your social media with this short form of vertical video content. Short form, vertical video content is here to stay. It is the trend for 2023, and it gives churches and ministries and pastors a significant advantage because you are already creating content within the normal rhythm and scope of your week. So repurpose some of that content. Use it on social media. Literally every single platform, TikTok, Instagram reels, Facebook and YouTube has introduced shorts.

Nick Clason (01:09):
They're all out there begging for this type of content to be on their platform, so don't miss that opportunity. I know specifically in my own context, we just started posting to YouTube shorts and just about every single video has over a thousand views. I think. Not a lot of people are out there using that platform. So we already have like 17, 18 subscribers from posting for four days so far. So it's a pretty unprecedented time. Every platform is in a little bit of a different place in their life cycle. Um, and so go grab that ebook so that you have the resources that you need to make that happen. In today's show, what I'm gonna do is I'm going to introduce you to someone who got on TikTok early, um, and had a, uh, uh, TikTok go completely bonkers viral. He has a crazy story to tell you. It's my friend, uh, Josh Chasteen. Him and I are actually friends from college. He was in my wedding, I was in his wedding. Um, but you may have actually seen him on TikTok if you're on there at all. He's a teacher, he does all kinds of fun teacher type stuff. So I'm excited to bring you this interview and conversation today with my friend Josh. Well, I'm here. Josh. Josh, thanks so much for joining me. How you doing today, bro?

Josh Chasteen (02:30):
Doing good, man. Just got done with basketball practice and, uh, happy to be here. Thanks for having me.

Nick Clason (02:36):
Yeah, yeah, man. So glad to have you. Good to reconnect too. Um, you know it, I was just talking to you offline for a second about how we, uh, or how I was making this, this ebook, um, and I logged on to grab a screenshot and it was your, like, one of your tos that popped up, and as soon as I saw that I was like, oh, yeah, Josh has this incredible TikTok story. So would you mind just walking us through what happened to you? It was about a year ago at this time, or maybe a little longer. Like what happened? How did it go viral? Like all this crazy stuff, like let us know.

Josh Chasteen (03:11):
Yeah. Well, things really got crazy a year ago, but it actually like dates back to 2019. So like fall of 2019, um, I hear about TikTok sounds fun, people doing dances. I'd never seen it. And so, um, I'm a junior high health teacher. I had six classes throughout the day. And so what I did like, and I just kinda like to do this random stuff where I kind of talk to kids about what's going on before we actually get into like, you know, stuff we're supposed to be doing in class. And so mm-hmm. , I was like, I spent the first five minutes of every bell like just asking them like, Hey, tell me about this TikTok app, you know? And so we're like talking through it. Every bells kind of telling me a little bit about what it is. And, um, so by the end of the day, you know, the kids were kinda like, you should get a TikTok.

Josh Chasteen (03:56):
And so we kind of came up with this plan, like, okay, well how about like, what if every Tuesday I did like TikTok Tuesday, where um, I either do a TikTok with like a group of students or another teacher or whatever. And I'm like, yeah, that's awesome. And so it was like, okay, whatever, you know, day or two goes by. And I'm like, I don't really think about it again. But there was like these, um, two girls that would like come by every day during lunch and they'd be like, Hey, you ready to start your TikTok? We'll help you do it. like, no, go away. I don't wanna do this right now. . And then they just kept coming back and finally I was like, okay, come here. Let's, let's do this. So they downloaded the app on my phone. I'd still never seen a TikTok at this point.

Josh Chasteen (04:32):
Um, and they're like, okay, well let's film one. I'm like, well, what do you do? They're like, well, I don't know, like, what's your favorite song? I'm like, uh, I mean, yeah, by Usher, you know, that's like the ultimate hype song . And so they're like, okay. So they're like, all right, we're just gonna film you doing, I teach health. So they're like, we're just gonna film you doing like the day in life of like a health teacher just do like whatever. So we're doing this like off the wall stuff and we're putting it to Usher Usher's. Yeah. And so they post it. I'm like, okay, cool. Well, everybody, like throughout school that day is just going insane. They're like, Hey, we saw your TikTok, saw you on TikTok. And um, you know, like, so I have had, you know, thousands of students throughout the year mm-hmm. .

Josh Chasteen (05:14):
And so at this time, this is 2019, there's no teachers on TikTok, you know, I'm like the pioneer of teacher TikTok apparently. Yeah. So there's no teachers on there. So like, first of all, like all the students in the school district, you know, like we have about 450 kids per grade. So all the kids at the junior high and the high school, you know, are getting on this. And so it's got a couple thousand views and they're like, you have, TikTok has a couple thousand views. I'm like, is that a lot? Like, I don't really know . And they're like, you have like a thousand followers. I'm like, once again, is that a lot? That doesn't seem like a lot to me. They're like, no, you, that really is. So I'm like, guy,

Nick Clason (05:45):
And this is from that very first one. This

Josh Chasteen (05:47):
Is just the first one. It was like that first day, you know? So I was like, okay. So I like went home that day or maybe the next day and I'm like, let's see what talk's about, I had never even opened it myself. So I'm just like scrolling through and I'm hooked. Like TikTok is like the most addicting thing ever. You can just get stuck like scrolling and it's never ending. And so this is me, I'm just watching this stuff and I'm like, this is pretty funny. And I'm like, I, I think I could like put some of this, these like trending things. I keep seeing these common things, which I'm like, oh, this is like a trend. I'm like, I could put like a teacher spin to this. So I did a couple of those and it was probably like my, I don't know, third or fourth one, um, that like really like blew up.

Josh Chasteen (06:27):
Like I just, they kept getting bigger and I'm getting thousands and thousands of views. Um, there was one that I did about like getting out of a te like canceling a test. And that one got, you know, I don't know how many views it got. It wasn't quite a million, but then I did one that was like, when your principal catches you making tos and it was like me and these two students, we were just filming it and it was like us doing like this at the time, you know, it was like this TikTok, you know, this was like the thing. So we were doing it and then like I stopped it and then I wanted the next clip to be like when this beat dropped like my principal looking at us through the window, like the classroom window. And so my principal, he's very stoic, like just looks like he's always angry, you know?

Josh Chasteen (07:12):
And so he had just come out from bus studios. The end of the day I'm like, I gotta get this like second shot of him looking in the window through my classroom door. And he did not seem like he was in the mood, but I was like, Hey, can I bother you for a second? I just want you to look through the window. I'm just gonna film it and then I just want you to give me your normal face. All you gotta do is look through the window. So he does it. And then, uh, it's great. I post it. The thing went insane. Like it had 50,000 views within like the first two hours. I'm getting all these followers. And uh, people thought it was hilarious. Um, and so it was like crazy. It was like really messing with my mind, you know? Cause I'm like, oh my gosh, I've got all this pressure now I've got this video with a million views.

Josh Chasteen (07:51):
I don't even know how to work the app. Like I still have like students filming it for me. Um, and so I'm like, you know what? I remember waking up one Saturday morning. I'm like, this is too much. It's stressing me out cuz now I have this pressure, like I gotta film more stuff. Um, but the kids were obviously loving it and I just, I'm like, I woke up in the morning, I'm like, I'm not doing this anymore. And I get on Instagram and Instagram I had it set up where if you get messages from people that you don't know, it doesn't like notify me. But I like just saw that I had all these messages and I open up Instagram and it's like, bars, stool sports. We wanna partner with you, we want a licensing deal with this. And it was like all these other random companies that were reaching out to me and I was like, what in the heck?

Josh Chasteen (08:32):
This is insane. And so so they found your TikTok and went and and messaged you on Instagram? Yeah, they were messaging me on, uh, on Instagram. Yeah. Cause my Instagram was connected with it. And so I was like, well I don't know, maybe I can keep this going for a little bit, you know? And, uh, . So I, I don't know, I just kept posting stuff and um, would kind of like see what the common trends were and put a, a teacher spin on it. And um, so I signed like a licensing deal on a couple different tos where it was like, and that kind of gave me more notoriety. Like Barsol, Barsol Sports had one where I canceled a test and it was like they had all the rights to it and there was like no money in it, but it was like it was on their Snapchat and all this stuff.

Josh Chasteen (09:12):
And so it just like started blown up. So I got to like 50,000 followers Yeah. On TikTok. And then Covid Hits and all these other teachers get on TikTok now the market's saturated. Mm-hmm. , I got nothing to film cuz I'm not in school. I don't have my students there giving me ideas and filming for me. And I don't want my wife to be like, you know, Hey will you film this? She doesn't wanna sit there and be like, you know, so you know Andy, so she's like not super into it. So like I kind of went like stagnant there for a while and I don't know, we get back into school in 2020 and I'm like posting some stuff here and there, but it's just kind of like a rough year. Um, you know, cuz it's like we're wearing masks and we're doing different things and the kids were kind of down.

Josh Chasteen (09:55):
And so we were behind cuz we had like been shut down periodically at random dates. So we were like not on schedule. So we had this like test that we were gonna take. It's the hardest test of the year. There was no way my kids were gonna be ready for it. I was not gonna give 'em the test, but I was like trying to make 'em sweat it a little bit. I was like, well maybe I gotta like post something on TikTok. If a pro sports team comments, it'll get you guys out of the test. Like I said, I was not giving it to him, but I had 50,000 followers. I was confident one pro sports team would comment. So, um, I'm like, Hey, let's do this. You know, whatever. Well it's like Tuesday of the week of break the bell rings to go from homeroom to First Bell.

Josh Chasteen (10:30):
I'm like, oh crap, I forgot I was going to, um, post this TikTok, I gotta do it today if I'm gonna do it. So I like pull out my phone in between the bells, put it up there, put jingle bells to it. It's an eight second video. It's just me looking at the camera. I don't say anything. I post the little caption. If a pro sports team comments, then I'll let my students get out of the test. Posted it by fourth Bell. The Detroit Lions had commented, so everybody was rejoicing. I'm like, phew, I don't have to like find another reason to get 'em out of the test . And then by the end of the day, like, you know, I think it'd gotten up to like a million views. Um, the Dallas Mavericks had commented the Seattle Mariners, whatever it was cool. Well, the Lions thing, like were te they were terrible last year, which shout out to the Detroit Lions.

Josh Chasteen (11:14):
They're in playoff contention. They're doing awesome. Dan Camp was doing great , but um, they really got the algorithm going. I think this is really, really sparked it. All of this was like timing things. Mm-hmm. . Um, I posted another TikTok like right around that time, um, about, um, like it's one that I post every December about how kids put off like doing homework until the end of a semester. So I posted that one right after I posted this one. And so they were kind of like working with each other. Um, but the one about getting out of a test, um, the lions were the first to comment. And so that was the one that was at, at the top. And so everybody's just bashing the lions, like he said, a pro sports team, not you guys. The lions suck, you know? So the lions are just getting absolutely obliterated in the comment section because it's like a pro sports team, not the Detroit Lions, but that like sparked the algorithm I'm confident of.

Josh Chasteen (12:08):
Mm-hmm. . Yeah. I mean, and so we're talking millions and millions of views and so now it's popping up on all these other like professional sports teams pages and they're commenting. And I remember being, it was like probably the next night I was at a friend's house. We had a little get together like for Christmas mm-hmm. and uh, I'm like pulling this up. I'm like, whoa, pizza hu commented. I'm like, the NFL just commented. ESPN just commented. I'm like going nuts. And everybody's like, what? You know, we don't know about TikTok. I'm like, this is insane. Everybody's commenting. And so it was up to like 44 million views or whatever like by the weekend. Um, and then it was like everything I was posting was like gold. Like these kids were like, it was the last daybreak. They're like, Hey, can we post a TikTok with you?

Josh Chasteen (12:45):
I'm like, the bell's gonna ring in two minutes. Okay, let's do this and we'll put it to a trending sound. 11 million views. Yeah. Like it was just, everything I was posting was insane. And so it became a whirlwind, like all these local news stations are like interviewing me. ESPN, a producer at ESPN interviewed me is like, we wanna have you live on Sports Center on Saturday. I'm like, is this legit? Like, this doesn't seem real. Um, I get, and I felt like it was just for the dumbest thing. It was an eight second video with me not talking. And so, you know, the Detroit Lions had me up to a game. I was on the field, um, during the Lions Packers game. It was funny. I'm on the field and they're like, Hey, uh, go out in between the quarter, stand in the end zone.

Josh Chasteen (13:24):
We're gonna get a picture of you in the end zone. And um, the Detroit, like their comment was roll out the TV cart. And so I filmed another TikTok where I'm rolling out this big 80 inch tv cuz I'm like, I wanna like let people know the kids got out of a test. The lions commented, let's make a video in response to that about the TV cart. So I emailed all the teachers in the school. I'm like, does anybody have a TV cart? Like one of those old school one, nobody had one except our STEM teacher had an 80 inch flat screen tv. I'm like, this will work. Well, I rolled that out and that blew things up too because people are like, that's a TV cart nowadays, like that 80 inch flat screen. And so, and you're like, no, not really. We don't even have beef .

Josh Chasteen (14:03):
Yeah. So they, uh, they had me up to a game. And so anyway, uh, they had me out on the field in between quarters and um, they said they just wanted to take a picture while they like had me up on the jumbotron, they showed the ESPN clip, they rolled out an old school TV cart like the lions mascot did. And they like gave me like a thousand dollars check, you know? So I'm like, oh my gosh, this is insane. So it was crazy. Like all of these things that happened, like Papa John's is like, we wanna sponsor a pizza party for your students. Pizza Hut sponsored a pizza party for like, my staff. Um, like Instacart just sent like a ton of snacks for all of our students. Like, I mean, it was insane. All of these like little partnerships and all these brands were getting involved and yeah. Uh, I think like 150 to 200 different like brands or, you know, verified creators commented and, you know, even like Luke Combs and Paul Abdul and all these people got involved. So it was insane.

Nick Clason (15:00):
Yeah, man. Yeah. Well I think like, there's a lot in there, but, uh, like you saying you got on in 2019 when it was like the wild, wild West and it was like, yeah, you could go viral in a second. Like, now, one of the disadvantages I would say of TikTok is a, it's becoming a much more saturated market. 2020 pushed a lot of people to it. Mm-hmm. . Um, and so now like you really do have to like, put in a lot of work, you know, to grow, um, on TikTok. And so, you know, whoever's listening, whatever, like you still do it. Um, but every, every social media is going that direction. And it's actually interesting cuz YouTube is trying to replicate it. And I just looked at our YouTube analytics. Today's, I'm recording this on January 2nd. I started posting yesterday. Our church just changed their name yesterday.

Nick Clason (15:48):
So I've been holding off on YouTube to, to align it up with the name change. And so I just started posting shorts and the first three all went up over a thousand. Wow. Um, and I think, so it's like every, every social media is like going all in on these like short form things. But, you know, TikTok is, it, it takes work now. And so you say all that. Um, I'm just curious like what , you know, I know your wife, but people listening don't, like, what's, what's your wife thinking through all of this? Like, is she like rolling her eyes? Like you, this is ridiculous that you're getting all this notoriety? Or does she think it's fun? Like what's the, what's her sort of like, uh, take on the whole thing?

Josh Chasteen (16:26):
Yeah, probably a combination of both. I mean, I think that is fun. Like everywhere we go, you know, people would say something to her. She had friends from California that are messaging her like, this is crazy. Like, I know somebody famous now and she's like, well, you don't know anybody famous. You know me, who's like married to this guy. And you know, anywhere we went, like, we would go out to eat at Red Robin and the hostess is like, Hey, I see you on TikTok. You know, people were always coming up and it was like really just kind of like celebrity status and, um, the thing that she didn't love. So I remember one night we're eating dinner. This is like the week that everything's getting crazy. There's a ring on the doorbell, it's, I don't know, probably seven o'clock at night. And then she comes in, she's like, Hey, um, Fox News is outside. I was like, what? I was like, I'm in my pajamas, like eating dinner.

Nick Clason (17:12):
How did they

Josh Chasteen (17:13):
Even fighting me? I, that's a great question. And I'm like, are you serious? And I like, go up and there's this dude out there in a suit. I was like, Hey. He's like, Hey, we're running this story tonight. Like, uh, that's awesome. Is it cool if we like interview you? I'm like, well, can I like go throw on some pants and like ? It was just insane. And so she was like bothered by that. Like, now these people are coming to our house. And um, so actually the public relations lady in our school district actually like, took on a lot of the stuff for me. She's like, I will field all these calls and stuff for you. I was like, okay, cool, thank you. Nice, nice. So, um, yeah, but it was, that was pretty funny and I don't know, I mean, it's died down. Like I think that Yeah, yeah. Uh, you know, but in that time it was just a little chaotic, uh, in . I don't know. I think she likes it, but at the same time she's just like, Hey, I'm my own person too, you know?

Nick Clason (18:02):
Yeah. Yeah. I'm not, yeah. I'm not just your wife. Yeah.

Josh Chasteen (18:05):
And

Nick Clason (18:05):
Exactly the other celebrity guy's wife. Yeah. I get that. So, shifting gears a little bit, Josh, like w I remember when you, because like, so I'm in ministry and you're a believer, like you, you love and follow Jesus. And I mean, I was youth pastor and you were one of my volunteers at the first church I worked at. And so, um, but, but even before I, I worked there. I remember when we were in college together, you told me, um, you felt called to like ministry or called to like reach in the next generation. Um, but you told me like I w I feel called to do this in the avenue of like, education through being a teacher because just the amount of exposure and the, the sheer volume and number of students that I'm gonna have an opportunity to reach is greater than just an average like youth pastor. And I just remember you saying that. And so as, as I'm thinking about this from a connecting with students standpoint, talk a little bit about how your TikTok account and presence has allowed you to, um, connect with different students, um, make relational inroads and stuff like that.

Josh Chasteen (19:14):
Yeah. Uh, there's a lot of things there. I mean, I guess the first thing I would say is like, you know, TikTok is not this like, you know, magic potion. If you just get on TikTok, you're gonna have all the students that are, you know? Yeah. So I mean, my big thing is building relationships. Like, um, one of the things, you know, you and I both know Doug Franklin, uh, well mm-hmm. , one of the things he said a couple years ago that I never forget is like, if you want to connect with any student, talk to them about their favorite topic in every student has the same favorite topic. Do you know what it is? Themselves.

Josh Chasteen (19:47):
Themselves. Yeah. Yeah. And so, um, I love just like talking to students and like getting to know, Hey, what'd you, this is what I do every class bell. Like, or every, like Monday I spend the first couple minutes of every Monday's class, Hey, what'd you guys do this weekend? Somebody raise your hand. Tell me what you did on Friday. Yeah. What are you guys doing this weekend? You know? And then like gathering information and then it's like I get to know students and then talking about that, Hey, you're really into this. How's this been going? How's that? And like the kids, like, now that I've been in this for a while, like really remember that mm-hmm. and it's like, um, you know, I get letters and stuff written back and things where it's like, you know, you really like cared about every student. And it's just like, I don't know that I really went above and beyond other than just like getting to know them.

Josh Chasteen (20:29):
And I think that like in my field, in, in any field, even youth ministry, it's easy to like, Hey, here's the tasks I have to do. I have to do this, this, this, this. Mm-hmm. . And we miss like, the whole relational aspect in it. And it's really about like people and like loving people and getting to know them. And so, um, so first of all, I think that that's like a strong suit of mine is just being able to connect with kids. The TikTok thing has helped, but I could see how it could also hinder, there's this word out there that kids use cringe. Okay. So , you, uh, there's this tough balance where it's like, yeah, I want to put stuff out there that's funny, but I don't want to be cringey. And it's really hard. Yeah. Um, so like, that's why I'm like, you gotta be yourself.

Josh Chasteen (21:12):
Like, that's the main thing. Like when I try to do, like, see things that are funny that other people do and I do it, it comes across as cringey. So like, you have to be authentic. Like if you're funny, be funny. If you're not funny, don't try to be funny, you know? I don't know. That's good. So, um, there's that. And I think that, uh, for the most part I've stayed out of it. And the ones, the videos that have done really well are like, where I'm like just looking at a camera and I have a caption that's like trying to get people to respond to stuff. Mm-hmm. or like, I am being like overly nerdy where it's like, I'm not trying to be cool, I'm just Yeah. Being stupid. And that's like the point of the video. Yeah. So, um, you know, I don't know, I'm trying to remember like what your original question was. Like how do you use TikTok to reach more people? Um, you know, I think that, I don't think it's like the number one thing, but I think it's supplemental to like what's already being done. Mm-hmm. .

Nick Clason (22:04):
No, that's good. I mean, like, really the whole premise of, of this podcast for me is like, there's a lot of, there's a lot of like, digital opportunities for us, you know? Um, and I think that at least some of the ministries I've been in, especially where I came from, like, uh, I, when I moved there, COVID was happening mm-hmm. immediately. And so as we were kind of finding our way out of it, we had pivoted pretty hard into a really like, big, like, digital strategy. And so as, as things were starting to sort of settle down, things were starting to come back, there was this really big argument between like in person or digital and it was pivoted against itself. Like it's either all in person or it's either all digital. And I just think that there's, there's more nuance to it, and it, that's where the idea of this hybrid comes in because you're a real teacher with real human students and real human relationships.

Nick Clason (22:56):
So you have that already going. And I think most people listening to this, if you're a ministry leader of some sort, like you're gonna have that with your students or your congregation or whatever, but you can still kind of show up, um, and use some of these other tools to, to be present, you know? And yeah. And you're, as a teacher, it's, it's different than, you know, like someone who's in in ministry. Cause you're trying to like, actually like share the message of Jesus and stuff like that. You're probably gonna get in trouble for things like that, you know, but, but because you, uh, have that kind of presence, I think it probably, like you said, as fun, you got students who are like, let's do this thing. Like let's download it. And I know I've had experiences where, like I post a lot of the tos on my ministry account, but I'll have, I'll have students who are like, we need to do this trend.

Nick Clason (23:42):
And I'm like, all right, do like, let's do it right now. Like, let's make it happen. Um, and I told them, I remember last year I told them I thought it was stupid and I told 'em all the reasons why it wasn't gonna work, but then by that night they're both like, screenshotting me, like our account. They're like, this is the number one video on our TikTok account because like, they just know better than I'm going to know. You know? Like, yeah. And so that's, I think that's another principle too in your story is like lean into what, like the knowledge that students have, like use them, get them on screen if it, if you're like, allowed to insurance wise and whatever and whatnot. And so, um, that's just, that's sort of the, the thing I love about, like your story is that you are doing this in a mini, like, not ministry, not for ministry, right. But like, it helps sort of aid in their relationships and stuff that, that are going on, um, with you being a teacher, people seeing you, you know, when they're on the bus or at home or, you know, whatever the case might be. Yeah. So

Josh Chasteen (24:41):
It's pretty cool. And I would say too, like, you know, you talked about how it like takes some work and stuff like that. I kind of prided myself on like, I'm not putting a lot of effort into this. Like yeah, I don't own a ring light, I have no editing apps. Um, yeah, I filmed everything on an iPhone seven up until like, the one went insane last year. And then like my camera kind of went out and I actually, I did my e s ESPN interview on FaceTime on my iPhone seven. Uh, but I made a little bit of money, so I'm like, all right, I'll buy a new phone, put it into this. So up until then, I mean, I, I, and even still I, um, don't really have a lot of this stuff, but all that to say is there was like a brief moment, like when I officially blew up, or like first initially is what I meant to say initially blew up that I was like, okay, I gotta keep trying to pump out content and do all this stuff. And it was like, those videos always did really poorly when I tried really hard mm-hmm. . But it's like, when I'm just me and doing things that I love and make videos that are fun to me to make, then those are usually the ones that do well. I think it translates.

Nick Clason (25:40):
No, that's, that's really good feedback too, right? Like, you have almo like to whoever's listening, you have all the tools probably already in your pocket. You don't have to go get a bunch of gear, you don't have to go learn a bunch of new skills. And it, as TikTok has gotten bigger, like there, it has more and more power now too. You know, you can edit more, you can add more effects, you can do all sort of stuff. And so you don't have to get crazy. And that's, that's a thing. I think social media's really just like leveling the playing field. It's like, Hey, everything's about video. You can post, hold up a video and talk directly into it. Do a funny thing, do a trend, and boom, all of a sudden like you're, you're there. Like, you don't have to learn a new skill.

Nick Clason (26:19):
You don't have to go to school for graphic design. You know, I even, I even think about when you and I went to college together, I wonder how many of those people that have like, video degrees or graphic design degrees, like how much of that's like obsolete now, you know, because Right. So many, so many tools are out there. So, alright. So last thing just real fast, like what's the funniest, uh, TikTok or what's like the one that you're like the most proud of or one that you're like, this was, this was the most fun for me to do, or most fun for me to film? Or funniest trend or what's, what's such like one TikTok that you've done that you're like, this is my favorite and here's why.

Josh Chasteen (26:55):
Yeah, that's a great question. Um, I think , I don't know, there's so many. Um, it's usually the ones where I get a lot of people involved. Like, so there was one that we did where it was like, um, I don't even remember what the song is, but it's like you show like somebody's yearbook picture and then you show them now mm-hmm. . And so we did one of those with, um, our staff, like maybe that was last year. Like our teaching staff probably like six or seven teachers. Uh, some of my good friends. And so it was like I had 'em bring in their yearbook, I'd show their picture and then I'd show them now. And so, but it's just like fun because it's like the more people that are involved, the more fun it is. Yeah. And so it's kind of one of those, I'm like, I don't even care if this like, ends up being like viral or whatever. Yeah. It's like I had fun making it and actually that one did pretty well cuz I think it got like half a million views or something like that. But, um, so I don't know what, yeah. Like I said, the ones where I'm involving a lot more are usually the better.

Nick Clason (27:53):
Yeah. That's fun. All right, last thing, um, I didn't prep you for this, so, so sorry. But as, as a teacher, um, and someone who interacts with the next generation every single day, what's one thing that you wish, like pastors churches or youth pastors knew about teenagers or about the next generation? Like what's just one thing you're like, Hey, I wish you all knew this, or I wish you'd stop doing this, or I wish, like, I wish you knew this about what I see from my unique perspective as someone not in like a church or ministry related field.

Josh Chasteen (28:25):
Yeah, I think that, uh, this generation like is pretty good at like telling when people are being real and when people aren't mm-hmm. mm-hmm. . So I think, you know, just, uh, be real. Um, but also I would say, you know, I kinda already mentioned this earlier, like put a big emphasis on getting to know students because there's just a lot of hurt. Like, it's just amazing to me the amount of hurt that's out there. Like a lot of like, just junk that kids are going through. They're going through things that I've never could even imagine going through, but you don't know that on the surface. And so it's kind of like really, um, building those bridges and like tearing down walls, like getting to know them, um mm-hmm. where like some of this stuff starts coming out and then, I don't know, there, there's so many kids out there that just need like a trusting, caring adult in their life. And uh, and it's not a ton of work to like make that happen. I mean, it is work cuz relationships take time, but, um, yeah, I mean, just get to know kids.

Nick Clason (29:24):
Yeah. That's good man. That's good. Yeah. All right, bro, well that is it. That's all I got unless there's anything else that you wanna say. Um, I appreciate your time and, uh, thanks for hopping on, bro.

Josh Chasteen (29:35):
Yeah. Don't get too addicted to TikTok. That's the only thing I would say. Set, set some screen limits or else you'll go down a bad rabbit hole, but that's it.
If you're there all day. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But no, thanks for having me. This is fun.

Nick Clason (29:46):
Well, hey, I hope you found that interesting and fun and just kind of an opportunity to kinda look and see, um, at what it is like to, uh, have a tweet or not tweet a TikTok, kind of go crazy and kind of go viral. So obviously that's not necessarily what we're all, you know, maybe like vying for or looking for, but it is, uh, it's a crazy story. And, um, more than that, I think what Josh's message was about, like, don't, don't just, you know, settle in for all the technology, but really get to know people. I think that's the heartbeat of most of us as ministry leaders, pastors, and so I, I just hope that you find that conversation helpful, useful, encouraging. Uh, hey, if you have not, again, like I said at the top of the show, go grab that ebook.

Nick Clason (30:31):
The link is in the show notes. I also have a complete video guide to that, if that's something that's helpful, uh, for you to watch, uh, to, to go through posting your first TikTok. And also if you found this helpful or if you grab that book and you find it helpful, share it with a friend. Um, leave a rating or a review. Uh, you can do everything and get all the show notes and transcripts and everything that you need to find over http://www.hybridministry.xyz. You can come hang out with me on YouTube or TikTok link to both of those in the show notes. And until next time, we'll talk to you all later. Bye.