🔍 What's the Buzz About?
In this thought-provoking discussion, Carey Nieuwhof and Warren Byrd explore the dynamic landscape of the Hybrid Church model. They shed light on the cutting-edge trends and unveil the fascinating possibilities that await the Church in the digital age.

🌐 Embracing the Digital Ministry
Discover how churches and youth ministries can harness the power of technology and digital platforms to expand their outreach. Unravel the secrets to effective digital ministry and explore innovative ways to leverage social media for church growth.

💻 Marketing the Church for Impact
Join us as we explore successful church social media strategies that bridge the gap between the physical and digital worlds. Learn how your ministry can create a strong online presence, connect with your congregation, and engage with a broader audience.

📲 Social Media: Friend or Foe?
In this candid discussion, Nick, your host unpack the potential pitfalls of social media in the church context while also highlighting its incredible power to have incredible outreach potential and foster community.

🤝 The Jury is Still Out
As the Hybrid Church concept gains momentum, the discussion isn't complete without acknowledging the questions and uncertainties surrounding its implementation. Delve into the gray areas and explore where the future of the Hybrid Church is still unknown.

Whether you're a seasoned pastor, a curious church member, or a tech-savvy youth pastor, this episode of the Hybrid Ministry Podcast promises to leave you inspired and equipped to embrace the future of the church in a digital world.

🔔 Subscribe now and join us on this enlightening journey into the world of Hybrid Ministry! Don't miss out on any future episodes, packed with insightful conversations and actionable strategies for a thriving Hybrid Church.

👉 Stay connected:
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@clasonnick
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hybridministry/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@clasonnick
Website: https://www.hybridministry.xyz

SHOWNOTES
📹 Watch Carey's Interview with Warren: https://youtu.be/u2zj9XPPxlI?t=4715
🎧 Listen to Carey's Interview with Warren: https://careynieuwhof.com/episode574/

📹 Hybrid Ministry on the Importance of the Church Website: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxndpebNlbw&t=2s
🎧 Hybrid Ministry on the Importance of the Church Website: https://www.hybridministry.xyz/040

✍️ Transcripts Provided by Rev.com Try Rev.com for yourself: https://rev.pxf.io/R5nDOa

TIMECODES
00:00-02:14 Intro
02:14-05:54 Warren Byrd on What's here to stay with Hybrid Ministry and where the jury is still out.
05:54-10:53 Nick Responds to Warren's Take on the Future of Hybrid Ministry
10:53-13:57 Hybrid & Digital work for Evangelism. Do they work for Discipleship?
13:57-21:36 What aspects of Discipleship can be turned digital?
21:36-23:15 Outro

HybridMinistryPodcast #DigitalMinistry #SocialMediaChurch #HybridChurch #ChurchGrowth #ChurchSocialMedia #DigitalOutreach #FaithInnovation

TRANSCRIPT
Nick Clason (00:01):
What is up everyone? Welcome back to another edition of the Hybrid Ministry Show. I am your host, Nick Clayson, excited to be with you. If you're watching on YouTube, you'll notice a little bit of a different setup. We did, um, some filming today. A two things. Number one, it's not air conditioned in here, so I'm gonna be super sweaty, so just roll with that. But b uh, got some new lights, got some new audio equipment. Um, one of these days I'm gonna do a step by step, like every single thing that we did, and I'll release it to you guys. Today's not that day, but because we're in here and because I was already set, I was like, I'm just gonna film in here. Typical day, filming day. Uh, normally I come in early and film and then get to work on like work stuff, but today I had to get all this stuff set up 'cause I didn't know how to use it.

Nick Clason (00:51):
It was brand new, literally just ordered it last week. Came in over the weekend, so I wanted to get it all set up. Uh, so kind of displaced my time, moved it around a little bit. All that to be said. In today's episode, I want to talk about a recent Carrie Nho leadership podcast. I'm a subscriber, love his show. Um, if you haven't ever gone on there, go check it out. But he did a recent, um, episode with Warren Bird and, um, another guy named JJ something or other. Um, I'll put the link in the show notes. You can check it out. But it, it was about, um, uh, church planting and like the future. And at about the one minute and 22, uh, one hour, 22 minute Mark Warren Bird dropped some absolute gold that had to do with what we are, uh, dealing with in this podcast.

Nick Clason (01:36):
So I want to have y'all, uh, take a listen to that and, uh, just share with you guys some of my thoughts with it. So, hey, hit the link in the show notes for all the things you need, your transcript, couple of freebies. We have motion graphics that you can get for Adobe Premiere Pro. And we also have the free ebook about, um, uploading and posting to TikTok all from your app. We're on Instagram. We're on YouTube, and we are on TikTok. So without any further ado, let's dive into this episode titled, um, why does hybrid ministry matter? What do we know is staying and where, where's the jury Still out? Let's go. So, like I said, uh, in the most recent Karen Newh, not most recent, uh, most recent one I listened to, Carrie Newh episode is out from a couple months ago. Warren Bird dropped a couple statements. I just want you to hear it directly from him, and then I will respond. So go ahead, take a listen.

Carey Nieuwhof (02:30):
Warren, any, uh, data or observations on church plants and technology?

Warren Byrd (02:36):
Yeah. Uh, let's divide it into here to stay and the jury's still out. Okay. Uh, here to stay is people check out your church by its website. First used to be the parking lot was the first impression. The website, whatever size church you are, you're gonna check it out. Mm-hmm. , they're gonna ask two questions, fundamentally, are people like me there? And is this a a, is there a scary factor? Is there something that you know, is gonna weird me out too much? Um, also the newcomer, uh, connection. Now, it may not be their first week there, but scan the ur uh, the QR code. Um, tell us either your email or your phone or both, and that becomes a primary communication tool. I'm just amazed at, at especially the younger generation, so willing, uh, to give that up. But carrying it further hybrid stuff.

Warren Byrd (03:29):
Like my wife and I just finished a, a couple's marriage class in our church. We kicked it off in person. We ended it with a happily ever, ever, ever after party afterwards. But all the nights of the group were online. So this couple with five kids, you know, they, they finished the last kid in bed, they flopped down on the sofa, embraced each other, and were part of the class. They would never have gotten a sitter, uh, driven somewhere. And, and maybe one week, but not week after week after week. So the hybrid experience is here to stay. Now, where the jury is still out for churches, large and small is not the evangelism and the outreach. And jj, it's such a wonderful story of the California story. Those will happen in, and now due to the pandemic, the gospel's in every language accessible all around the world for people to hear, it's a brilliant strategy as the silver, one of the silver linings of the pandemic.

Warren Byrd (04:23):
But, but is is it primarily a member equipping and evangelistic strategy, or is it also a discipleship strategy? Mm-hmm. , can discipleship also happen at the same level? Now granted, I can't hug. Yeah. I can't, you know, like, like good Friday for me. Yes. Good question. When I, I'm not that emotional, but every time I do one of those crosses where I nail the nails in, and that's me nailing the nails and cry, well, I can't do that online mm-hmm. , uh, but in person it just, it moves me. So there's certain in-person that that, is it better or is it not? And I was just last week with a bunch of executive pastors from megachurches of a particular denomination, and they're ambivalent. You know, they're still deciding what to do. Yeah. There are still, there are a few pioneers, uh, Kerry, you wrote the forward to, uh, Tim Lucas's, uh, liquid Church book, liquid church and liquid Church, uh, uh, 5,500 before the pandemic says, okay, we may reach thousands in person, but let's figure out how to seamlessly reach tens of thousands of people beyond that. And church plants are with, with whatever their capacity level, depending on their size, are likewise saying, can we have an online impact of discipleship even beyond the broadcasting? So jury's still out on a lot of things, but, uh, I'm excited about the possibilities.

Nick Clason (05:55):
Okay, so we had a couple of things to say. The first is this, um, what's here to stay the church website, I'll drop a link in the show notes, but we had a all episode all about, um, church websites and how important, uh, your church website is just about like street to seat and all that stuff. Like people are still looking at and viewing websites. And if you have not yet put any effort or money into your website, go ahead and do that. And honestly, what I might recommend is I would get somebody who hasn't, who doesn't go to your church and put them on your website and ask them what's confusing, what's broken, what's missing, what's still needed, and all of that stuff will help point you in the right direction of somebody who is going to be an outsider and is going to be utilizing and using your church website.

Nick Clason (06:44):
So, uh, that's a great place to start. He also talks about, uh, next generations being willing to scan QR codes or fill out forms to give out necessary information that is marketing 1 0 1. And so if you can capture people's name and phone number and or email, you have just about everything you need to at least get started in nurturing their relationship. Oftentimes, churches want all of it all at once. Like, what's your name? What's your address? What's your email address, what's your phone number? What's your social security number? And it's like, they're not there yet, bro. Like, give them, like, trade your email address for a free mug or trade your email address for a donation to some sort of like missions agency or something like that. But you can't get it all. But churches just get greedy and frankly lazy because they're unwilling to massage the relationship.

Nick Clason (07:35):
And I can hear you on the other end because I'm, I've been there, right? I'm like, ah, we need all that info and it'd be great. Yeah. If we did okay. However, like give people time to warm up to you. All right? A lot of times people use marketing, um, in church, we don't know. We don't talk and do a lot of like marketing type stuff, but, but a lot of times what needs to happen is we need to like date them first before we marry them. You know what I'm saying? And a lot of times in churches, we just, we want all the married information like, sign this birth certificate, sign up, you're a member now. Like, who, who, hold on. Like, I just was checking it out for one week. Um, but Warburg does say that there is much more willingness in the next generation to give out and, and distribute that type of information.

Nick Clason (08:20):
And so use that to your advantage. Uh, the other thing you talked about was hybrid stuff. And this is really where I wanted to like zone in because he talked about a Zoom class for like a, a marriage class that they did. Um, that's I think where a lot of people's minds go when I say hybrid, and that's quite frankly one of my least favorite options. Um, I think it's a necessary evil and can be used strategically, but like when I say like hybrid, I don't just mean like zoom small groups. I can, um, I much more mean like showing up where people live their lives in Bible reading plans, in, um, group chats, in social media, in Facebook groups, like all type, all types of things like that. That's what I personally mean when I talk about hybrid. And so the same is true, um, with what he's talking about.

Nick Clason (09:12):
Like, you can do those types of things, right? Like you can make those types of, um, classes or whatever via hybrid, via zoom, via whatever. But, um, that, that wouldn't be my only thing. I think podcasts are another amazing, uh, tool to be utilized. A lot of people, um, have the bandwidth desire and willingness to listen to super long form things. And so like if you're a pastor, you know, that like you cut a lot of things out of your sermon for sake of time and brevity and whatever the case might might be. Um, a podcast is a way to, to give more information that might still be helpful, informative, relevant, uh, that you don't have time to put in a sermon. And so, you know, like if you, again, if you've ever preached like, you know, that there are always things that you often have to cut.

Nick Clason (10:01):
And so, um, podcasts are a great long form tool. They can also double and take place on, on YouTube. Okay? Um, and so I thought, I thought what he had to say there was, was fascinating and a lot of the stuff that I, um, have talked about on this podcast, church websites, connections, hybrid stuff, he, he hit all that. And so, you know, as a creative of this podcast, I was like, yes, you know, Warren Bird is like the Yoda of church data and like the, the just like landscape of church growth and trajectories and what's next and what's coming, like all that stuff. So if he says it, I'm, I'm pumped about it. Okay. What I think was interesting, um, and what I wanna talk about a little bit is when he talked about the jury still being out. So let's dive into that discussion a little bit deeper.

Nick Clason (10:54):
All right, so he said the jury is still out basically saying the digital and hybrid work for evangelism, but do they work for discipleship? Um, if you remember, he used a very tactical example of Good Friday and nailing the nail into a cross. And he's like, that's just so monumental and meaningful to me, and I agree with him. Um, but that is not the only way in which people experience hands-on tactical discipleship, especially newer and, and younger generations. They're much more inclined and willing to explore things through a digital lens, relationships through a digital lens, um, and lean more into like hybrid type of opportunities and options. And so, like at my church, like what Warren broke it down to is like reaching people and or evangelism, like bringing people into your church, which I would argue is necessarily evangelism. It's evangelism from an organizational standpoint.

Nick Clason (11:57):
Like as a church organization, we have to be able, ready, willing to, to bring in guests. But like, is that really evangelism? I would argue evangelism is, you know, a a meaningful, a person taking a meaningful next step to Jesus, particularly one who doesn't classify themself as a Christian. And more often than not, that happens in a interpersonal one-on-one relationship. That's just how I would classify evangelism. Discipleship, I think is quite frankly the same thing. And, um, those evangelism and discipleship used to all be one word, right? It was just telling people about Jesus and then making people more like Jesus so that they would eventually go multiply themselves and their lives into other people's lives. But we, we drew a line at the moment of conversion and we switched evangelism, um, as people who don't have a relationship with Jesus. And discipleship is people who do have a relationship with Jesus, but that's not what Warren was talking about, right?

Nick Clason (12:55):
But he was talking about reaching people and then actually growing them into a mature follower of Christ. So, um, you probably have a definition of what a disciple is at your church. Every church in America probably has some definition of what a disciple is at their church. It all is derived in some way, shape or form. Probably off of the great commission at least I would argue that it should be, because that was Jesus's very deliberate specific commands for us to go make disciples of all nations. That being said, I have a definition, we have a definition in our church about discipleship. So I wanted to explain what that is and then break down those three different elements of a disciple and talk through some hybrid ideas. Again, I'm not vouching for or saying this is successful, not successful, whatever. I'm simply just saying, if you look at the definition of a disciple, these are ways in which digital ministry and hybrid ministry can be supplemented and or utilized to help bring about mature, um, a mature follower of Christ.

Nick Clason (13:54):
So let's talk about that on the other side. Okay? So like I said, my church classifies and breaks down disciple, uh, we call it a three D disciple. Um, I creative, whatever I get it, um, wasn't mine. So not taking any credit for it or flack for it, just it is what it is. If you're a church, medium marketing manager, if you're a church, if you're a youth pastor, like you probably inherited something like this unless you're the lead pastor that came up with it. In most cases, if we're on church staff, we are experiencing these things and now we just have to figure out how to carry out the vision of where we work. That's just the reality of, of being in a position like this. So we have, um, a disciple who's devoted, developing and deployed. Okay? So devoted is simply learning how to work with God.

Nick Clason (14:40):
And I thought there are tons of hybrid options in that if we're trying to help teach someone how to walk with God, there is a, a really great interpersonal moment and element that can take place, especially if you have like a mentorship relationship. And quite frankly, you should, you should do that. You should be leaning into some sort of mentoring relationship, someone who's older than you, who's further along than you and can help take you to the next level. However, there are personal disciplines that I believe also need to take place. Bible reading, um, prayer, and I would argue, and I don't know that this is a widespread thought, but scripture memory and each of those three things, Bible reading, prayer, scripture, memory, I think there are ways in which you can lean into a digital option. Digital flashcards, digital fill in the blank. There's, there's an app I use, a bible memorization app I use for memorizing scripture, um, Bible reading and prayer, both in the YouVersion Bible app.

Nick Clason (15:37):
There are tools and like assets and parts and pieces within the YouVersion Bible app where I can read the Bible more robustly. I can read it with friends, I can do it in community, I can prayer, I can offer prayer requests. They have a daily like guided prayer moment. All those things I think are tools. And if your church has, has the money, has the way, the ability, the means, the resources to pull some of those things together and create an app or create resources, all the more power to you. If not, you can just point people towards some of these other resources, curate some of the good ones that help and have helped you grow in your faith and can help other people grow in their faith as they lean more into their devoted ness and their walk with God, right? Again, this is from my church's definition of a disciple, the second D.

Nick Clason (16:25):
So the first D is devoted, the second D is developing, so they're devoted to Christ to learn to walk with God. And then they're also growing, uh, talk about, uh, we, we use this phrase growing in the character and the competencies of Jesus. So more and more like Jesus as well as, um, doing more and more things like Jesus, one of the first, second or third John I can't remember, says, if you want to, um, follow Jesus, you need to learn to walk as he walked. That's the competencies part, right? Doing the same things, doing the things of Jesus. And so how can we help grow people to be more, um, have a better character, more like Jesus, um, and doing more of the things like Jesus. Um, I, I just actually shared in this exact seat with my students via video for a series coming up about a light bulb versus a laser.

Nick Clason (17:15):
Both of them are lights, but one is an intensified, focused and like very intentional light. And one is just illuminating the room. Both are light. One is one has incredible power. And I would say as you are developing into the character and into the competencies of Jesus, one of the ways to harness that is through relationships and through like direct accountability. Not just friendship, not just like small group, like surface level and maybe even a little deeper than surface level, but actual meaningful, like intentional relationships. Paul David Tripp has a, a quote where he says, you need to be intentionally ob protrusive in somebody's life. And that's what I mean by accountability. Can you accomplish that digitally? I don't think so. Um, there is an element of a one-on-one relationship, a need and need type of relationship. That being said, the accountability partner I have in my life lives 900 miles away from me.

Nick Clason (18:11):
And we talk every single week, once a week, 6:00 AM every Monday morning. And it's a, an expected phone call that's not in person, quote unquote. It's, it is a life on life relationship, but it's done using the means of technology. That being said, we went to college together and grew up together and have raised our kids together at times. And so like, there was definitely a life on life moment that brought us closer together that then allowed us to use technology to continue on in the relationship as opposed to just simply abandoning it, which is what often happens when distance takes place. The third one is deployed, which is simply the idea of being sent out, right? Jesus sent out the 12, then he sent out the, um, 72, and then the 72 that they reached, he, he sent all those out as well. So we saw within Jesus' life, four generations of multiplication.

Nick Clason (19:01):
How can we deploy people using technology and hybrid? Again, the more like you hone this, I think, and if you have an actual nomenclature for it and strategy around it, you can build infrastructures, websites, apps, eBooks, like all kinds of things to give people regardless of where they are. And if you've sent people out overseas, you can still put resources in their hands to help them as they are reaching people, reaching their neighborhoods, reaching their coworkers, having some of these like conversations, these Jesus, these evangelism, these discipleship conversations. I think what Warren is saying is like, there's a life on life moment. An aspect, an element that takes place where people grow. And I agree with that. And he's saying, can digital replace it? And again, I've said this before, but I think if we try to just create, if we, if we say that a Sunday morning sermon is the only place that discipleship happens, and then by recording it and live streaming it, that's our like hybrid or like our digital option, then no, I don't think that that's actually helping people become more developed in their character and competency of Jesus more devoted to him, more able to multiply themselves and send other people out and all the, like, just from a sermon being online, probably not, but a more robust tool, more robust resources that are out there I think can, can help people, right?

Nick Clason (20:28):
Like knowledge can be transferred from one person to another. An element of being devoted element of developing for sure things that are communicated clearly and concisely through that transfer of knowledge. I think those things can happen. Can life transformation happen in hybrid? I would say yes. I don't think it looks the way we think it looks, and I think it probably requires a pretty massive overhaul, um, to be able to do that. But I definitely think it's possible. And here's where the rub often happens. You have to have buy-in with the people who hold the money and write the checks and do those things to get some of those things up off the ground. Because without that, you're simply just like the social media guy trying to do all that through Instagram posts. And can it be done? I think so. Is it the most effective way?

Nick Clason (21:22):
Probably not. Probably not. Um, and so that's how, that's how I would classify it and that's how I would answer and respond to Warren's question about hybrid ministry. Yes, but with some infrastructure and some overhauling for sure. Well, hey, thanks everyone for sticking around, uh, for the duration of this entire episode. I hope you found it helpful. Go listen, like, subscribe to the Kerry Newh episode, especially that part about Warren Bird. Go subscribe to us on YouTube. Give us a, like, all that stuff helps us get found, indexed and seen by the people, um, out there on YouTube that are asking some of these same questions like, is digital discipleship even a possibility in today's world? And, um, 'cause I think it is, and I think that's a meaningful message as we move forward, especially into the next and younger generations, um, of our church members and even those people who have not yet discovered our church. Hit the link in the show notes again for full transcripts of this episode and every other episode that we have over at hybridministry.xyz, grab the Adobe Premier Pro Transitions, grab the free ebook, go like us on Instagrams, follow us on TikTok, follow us on YouTube. And until next time, and as always, we're helping make digital discipleship easy. Stay Hybrid!

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SHOWNOTES
6 PART CHURCH SOCIAL MEDIA FRAMEWORK:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLngXlSr64YaIbzg_DNJrTrCtBHQnxcOVo

Episode Referenced:
https://careynieuwhof.com/episode549/

TIMECODES
00:00-02:24 Intro
02:24-05:15 Everything you do is Marketing
05:15-08:03 Every Touch Point Matters - Church Marketing from Street to Seat
08:03-11:51 The Reality of Hybrid - Beyond Street to Seat
11:51-15:40 What "est" is your church?
15:40-1643 Outro

TRANSCRIPT
Nick Clason (00:01):
Well, hello there everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Hybrid Ministry podcast. We are now officially finished with the six part church social media framework. Be sure to head to the link in the show notes, either http://www.hybridministry.xyz/041 for this episode of the Hybrid Ministry Podcast. Or if you're watching on YouTube, be sure to check out the link in a description where we have linked the full and complete hybrid ministry church, social media, six part framework, four churches in 2023. We walk through setting up a platform all the way at YouTube through TikTok, through Instagram, through Facebook, linking all of your accounts, how to use email, text, messaging, website, and then finally, how to put all those together for a completely full free and flushed out church social media framework. We hope that you find that helpful, advantageous, beneficial. Just wanna say thank you for watching.

Nick Clason (01:02):
Thank you for sharing. Uh, the month of February and March have been our two highest downloaded months in the entire history of the podcast. We could not do what we are doing without you, so, so thankful that you are along for the ride and for the journey. One major piece of the church social media framework is short form video content. That's the beautiful thing with YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, and Facebook. All four of them right now are focusing on short form video content. And so I wanna encourage you, if you have not hit the link in the show notes to check out our 100% completely free ebook, our ebook, which asks the question, have I already ruined my, ruined my church's TikTok account? The short answer to that is probably not, but we wanna help you walk through taking a step-by-step approach to filming, posting, editing, adding audio, all the things that you need to do for short form video content.

Nick Clason (01:52):
And you can do that right in the TikTok app. And then you can take that same video and you can disseminate it out to all the other social media platforms. Once again, so thrilled that you are here for this episode. In this episode, we are going to be looking at Starbucks. Does Starbucks actually market more on that in just a minute? Last thing I just wanna ask you for is if you are available, interested or willing to give us a five star review, that will be incredible. A subscribe, a rating or review. All of those things help get the word out about what we are doing here on this podcast to help you get out to the masses and the people who are along for this journey, and also trying to navigate this church communications, church social media landscape of 2023. Without any further ado, let's dive into this question.

Nick Clason (02:39):
Does Starbucks Market? Hey everyone. I was recently listening to a podcast the other week, um, and I'm gonna link it in the show notes. It was with Bill McKendry. He is the, um, the guy kind of behind the, um, Jesus ads that you might have seen in the Super Bowl, the ads. Um, he gets us and he was on with Carrie Newk, who is a prolific author, podcaster, blogger in the Christian kind of Roman space and in leadership. And they were talking about, um, marketing, the whole idea of marketing. And so there's just so many good things in that episode. If you haven't listened to it or list or heard it yet, check the link in the description. But one of the things he said really stood out to me, and I kind of want to, um, dive into that a little bit deeper, especially with a lens and an eye for and towards church, um, marketing and church spaces.

Nick Clason (03:27):
And so he said he had a conversation with Howard Schultz of Starbucks, and he said that, um, everybody, this is what Howard Schultz, the guy of Starbucks, I said, everybody assumes that branding and marketing is all about advertising. It's not right. And he goes on to say, if you think that branding and marketing are just about advertising, then you really don't understand branding at all. So you might be thinking like, what is he even talking about? And the the reality is, is that what McKenzie Cano is pointing out to to new H on the podcast is he says, you don't see a lot of Starbucks ads or commercials, do you and Kerry Newhouse's like, no, I guess you're right. I I don't really see a lot of those things. And McKendry goes, that's because of this guy Howard Schultz. He says, every single thing you do is branding.

Nick Clason (04:10):
Every single thing you do lends itself toward marketing. And so you might be thinking as a church like, well, that sounds great. That sounds amazing actually, cuz we don't have a giant budget. And you know what actually it is. But if you are a church with a small budget and you don't have someone with an eye for this or someone who has the intentionality towards what Howard Schultz of Starbucks is actually doing, it's going to be difficult for you in my personal opinion. And so, um, I wanted to think through what Starbucks actually does, like what they consider a successful, um, encounter, a successful opportunity. And so if every single thing you do is marketing, if every single thing you do is branding, that means that every single touchpoint matters. And so what McKendry was pointing out to New H in the podcast is he was saying, that's why Starbucks cups look so cool.

Nick Clason (04:56):
That's why there's such a particular way that every Starbucks is, uh, required by corporate to be laid out. That's why the music is a certain level. That's why the vibe looks a certain way. All of that stuff matters. And so I just wanna kind of pause and think through that, through the lens and through the eyes of the church. So if every single touchpoint matters, let's think about somebody visiting, coming to, um, exploring your church for the very first time. Um, let's think through they are going to be going from the street to the seat. So what are all of the touchpoints between the street and to the seat? So when they pull in the signage that they see the way your parking lot looks, how upkept is your, are your ground? Do you have a parking lot team? Do you have signage for visitors?

Nick Clason (05:43):
Flash your lights if you're a visitor, honk your horn If you're a visitor, do you have people with signs? Do you have greeters? Once they finally park their car and they get out, how are they greeted? Are your greeters just glorified door holders that a lump of, uh, block of wood could also accomplish their job? Or are your greeters actively looking for new guests, actively greeting people standing at the door, keeping the door propped open? You know, more than just standing there and saying, hello sir, hello ma'am. But like, are they using names? Are they trying to get to know people? Are they helping escort new people to the lobby? What does your lobby look like? What's your guest experience in the lobby look like? Do you have a newcomers welcome kit or anything like that? Are you just gonna give them a mug, which is what every single church in America does?

Nick Clason (06:30):
Or are you giving them some sort of tailor-made thing that's gonna be maybe a little bit more beneficial or advantageous to them as a family? Um, how is the kids' check-in process as a dad of young kids? The kids' check-in process when it's assumed that you know what's going on is an absolutely awful experience. So what does that experience look like for people who have no idea what they're doing? Is it clear where they're supposed to go? What do they do if they're new? How do they fill out the information needed to get a kid checked in? How long does that process actually take? Is it clear where they're supposed to go? Is your room, are your room layouts clear? Is your building clean? Does your kids' area seem safe? Do you have safety? Do you have security? Do you have people with branded t-shirts for your church and all the way through finally walking into the auditorium?

Nick Clason (07:20):
How does you know the, how does the bulletin look? How does the actual auditorium look? How do the screens look? How, like, think about the all of that and this like, this is leaning a little bit. Guest services, I get it right? And I'm, I'm doing that all with the, the purpose. But like, but I want you to think about this. When is the last time that you walked through your church building through looking through the lens and eyes of a first time guest, someone who has no idea, no context, no framework for what it's like being in your church? That's what I want to encourage you to do. I want you to encourage you to think about those things. And then the reality is this, is that if every single touchpoint matters, think about all the opportune touchpoints that we just walked through. So let's talk about the reality of hybrid.

Nick Clason (08:07):
This is the hybrid ministry podcast after all. And a lot of times we focus on digital because I think most churches do actually do a decent job at least having their, their mind or their eyes set on the physical or thinking about and thinking through what a physical experience is going to look like for somebody coming to your church newcomer or someone who's been going to your church for a hundred years. But what does your pre street to seat experience look like? See, the reality is most churches do have someone thinking street to seat. They have someone thinking guest services, they have someone thinking worship team, tech team, kids team. Like you have someone thinking about that, whether they're doing a good job or not. That may be a whole nother story. But what about before they ever even determine they're going to come to your church?

Nick Clason (08:54):
Because here's the god honest truth, most people are not just driving by at a Sunday morning at 8 45, 9 o'clock, whatever time they would need to be driving past your church and be like, you know what we should do? We should go to church. Like they're going to come to that decision over a, a sequence of weeks, months. Um, and maybe it's from driving by your church, maybe it's from seeing an ad. Maybe it's from seeing t-shirts that people are wearing of your church in and around the community. Maybe it's just a word of mouth recommendation, any sort of thing. But the, the fact is, once someone that has narrowed in their focus on your church, they have gotten to that conclusion and they have come to that place for one reason or another. What was that reason? And then, and then here's what they're gonna do.

Nick Clason (09:44):
If they're under the age of 35 or 40, probably they're more than likely going to check your church out online everywhere. Your website, your socials, your livestream, your kids' ministry page, all those types of things. I'll give you an example. A couple weeks ago it was March Madness and my wife, um, and I were watching March Madness. Let me be more clear. I was watching March Madness and I was trying to get her interested in March Madness. And there was a commercial about wings from Wingstop, which I'm not a big Wingstop guy, it's very, um, commercial. It's very chain. That's not my thing. I don't love Wingstop, don't love beat up. I love like a good kinda like dive bar wing place. That's, that's typically my preference when it comes to wings. And so my wife was like, you know, sounds good Wings. And I was like, I mean, yeah, wings always sound good to me, but for that night wings sounded good to her.

Nick Clason (10:37):
And so she started googling in our town Best Wings in our Town and started getting all these recommendations, Yelp, Google Maps, five stars, four stars, four and a half stars, whatever. And we found this little bar that served wings that were supposedly pretty good. And so we start researching that, researching the wings, and then we're like, okay, is this gonna be a place that like, is kid friendly? Like can we bring our kids to this bar? Is that gonna be okay? And so we start like researching that and reading through the reviews and reading through what people say. My point in saying all of that is that before we ever stepped foot in that restaurant, we did all kinds of different research. Not a ton, right? But like five to 10 minutes worth of research about wings, about the environment, about the prices, about the menu, all those things before we ever took our step into the, um, the bar.

Nick Clason (11:31):
And so I just wanna say that, and I just want to encourage you as a church to start thinking greater than street to seat. Every single touchpoint that you offer from your church matters. If that's what Starbucks does, which is the largest coffee chain in America, then your church can probably learn a couple of things from Starbucks. Another thing that was fascinating from the episode that I want to point out here before we wrap it up is that he went on to talk about this marketing and branding firm that works with all kinds of different competitors. And he used the example of Walmart and Target and he said, each and every competitor, each and every store, each and every entity, whatever it is, can only have one e s T. And when he said e s t, he said, for example, like Walmart is the cheapest and Target is the coolest.

Nick Clason (12:20):
But I just wanna ask you a question. Is Walmart always the cheapest? Sometimes Target is actually cheaper than Walmart, but you could, you, and he uses this example in the podcast. He says, there's a guy who's like, I, I would throw on slippers and a hoodie and not wash or wash my hair, brush my teeth, anything like that, just head into Walmart and grab something quick. But if I wanna go to Target, I gotta get myself ready, right? Why is that? He said, because each of those places have embraced what their e s t is Walmart being cheapest, target being coolest. So what is that for your church? You probably have something in mind, whether you've thought about it or not, um, spoken or unspoken, just about every place has an E s T that they want to be. What we often run into as agencies, churches, whatever, is that we want to be multiple of them.

Nick Clason (13:09):
Well, we wanna be the coolest and we wanna be the cheapest and we want, you just can't be that. You have to pick one of those things and really hone in on it. So is your church gonna be the church that's all about worship or is your church gonna be the church that's all about kids and student ministry? Or is your church gonna be the church that's all about ex expositional, expository preaching? Is your church gonna be the trendy church? Is your church gonna be the church with good coffee? Is your church? You see what I'm saying? And like, those things matter, but like one thing often rises above and rises to the top of what your church is. And and this is true of businesses and whatnot. And here's the thing. He used an example in the podcast. He says, Southwest Airlines always said, we love you, we love our customers.

Nick Clason (13:52):
And he said, that works until it doesn't. And when Southwest had their debacle around Christmas and they couldn't get people home for their Christmas and family gatherings, no amount of messaging, no amount of like, we love you, we are the airline oven for the people. None of that mattered. He said anymore why? He was like, because they failed. Like they dropped the ball big time and people didn't feel that love sitting in the airport for 24, 36, 48, 72 hours. That is not the messaging that Southwest was giving across during those times. And so you can say what you are, but then you also have to turn around and deliver it. And so everything you do about your church, every single touchpoint that you make, it matters. So what are you going to do? What is that, that key core marker that you're going to be with your church?

Nick Clason (14:41):
And listen, I would, I would recommend if you're a youth pastor, if you're a church communications person, a church social media person listening to this podcast, you're probably gonna wanna have to have a sit with some upper level leadership around this conversation. If you're not a person at the table to have that conversation, ask your direct report. Hey, what, like, how, how can we come up with this? And your church may already have had some of those things. So then go back through and grade those things. Hire a secret shopper, like all sorts of different things. But I like, I just, I wanna point out that I think most churches do a good job, a decent job, you know, with people like secret shoppers, first time guests, all those things. But what are you communicating beyond the doors, beyond the Sunday morning, beyond your primary meeting experience?

Nick Clason (15:26):
And what is your messaging to them? Because if, well he said the Starbucks guy, everything you do is branding, then have you taken enough time to distill that one to your primary core, what your messaging is going to be? Well, thanks everyone for hanging out again for another episode in the Books Hybrid Ministry episode 41. We are now only about 15. No, that's a less than that. We're like 11, 10, 11 episodes away from one year worth of podcasting. So we'll do something exciting on episode 52. I'll need to look, cuz I have a couple bonus episodes that have dropped that have, you know, kind of messed with our, our numbering there or whatever. But, but super excited to be with you, grateful that you're continuing to be along in the journey. Hey, if you have questions, if you wanna get in touch with me, follow me on YouTube, follow me on TikTok, hit me up in the dm, head to our website, hybridministry.xyz. We would love to hear from you. We would love to start answering some questions. So if you have those, send them our way. But once again, thrilled that you were here with us and we will talk to you next time. And don't forget, and as always, stay hybrid.

Follow Along on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9pjecCnd8FVFCenWharf2g
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@clasonnick?lang=en
Show Notes & Transcripts: http://www.hybridministry.xyz/039
TikTok E Book: https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/ebook

SHOWNOTES
Step 1: YouTube: https://www.hybridministry.xyz/035
Trailer: https://www.hybridministry.xyz/034
Planning Center People: https://www.planningcenter.com/people
HubSpot: https://www.hubspot.com/
SMS Marketing Rules and Regulations: https://act-on.com/blog/sms-marketing-regulations/#:~:text=The%20Telephone%20Consumer%20Protection%20Act%20(TCPA)%20is%20a%20United%20States,sending%20them%20marketing%20text%20messages

TIMECODES
00:00-02:46 Intro
02:46-08:43 Email and Text Messaging's Place in Church Communications
08:43-15:19 What is Email Marketing for Churches?
15:19-17:57 What should you expect from Email Marketing?
17:57-22:05 What is SMS or Text Message Marketing's place in churches?
22:05-23:22 The Role of your Church Website
23:22-24:20 Outro

TRANSCRIPT
Nick Clason (00:00):
Well, hey there everybody. Welcome back to another episode of The Hybrid Minister Show. I am your host, as always, Nick Clason. So excited to be here with you. And in today's episode, we are going to be talking about email and text messaging. So you're like, wait a minute, hold on. I thought that this was the sixth part, church social media framework for churches in 2023. And yes, you would be correct. And then you're thinking, wait a minute, I email and text. That doesn't count. And actually I think it does. And so we're gonna dive into that why I think it matters, why I think you should be utilizing it for your church and why it can be beneficial. But before we do, if you don't know, we are on YouTube every single episode. So hey, to everyone watching on YouTube, it's good to see you over there on video.

Nick Clason (00:54):
If you're just listening to this in your ear holes, click the link in the show notes to head on over to YouTube to take a look, to watch, to even to subscribe. That'd be amazing. We'd love to have you over there. If you discovered us on YouTube or on shorts, we wanna let you know that we are also on website and we have a podcast. And so you can head to http://www.hybridministry.xyz. This is episode 39, so http://www.hybridministry.xyz/03. If you click that direct link, it will take you very specifically to this episode with transcripts for this episode, or if you just head to that website and head over to the blog section. There are two articles there, both with links to free, completely free resources to help you and your church navigate this social media landscape that we are in, including the ebook.

Nick Clason (01:40):
Have I already ruined my church's TikTok account by what I've done and what I've posted? No, you should download it so that you know exactly what to do from start to finish all the way through. Uh, and maybe you know what you're doing, but maybe you have some volunteers or some staff and you, uh, want to help them understand what they're doing. You can put that ebook in their hands and it will help take them from a complete novice to an expert on TikTok in just a few short steps. And so that is a resource that we hope that will be beneficial to you. And, uh, hopefully something that, you know, that you can use and utilize for years and years to come, or at least for this year probably, because TikTok will then make an update and we'll have to update the book along with it.

Nick Clason (02:22):
Um, if you find that helpful or if any of this helpful a share or a rating or a review would be incredible, it would just be your way of helping, uh, us get the word out, um, and letting your friends know that, hey, this is something that's useful, beneficial, and I am, uh, listening to it and you should as well. So without any further ado, let's dive into email and text messaging. Okay, so email, texting. I thought we were talking about social media. Well, if you go all the way back to the very first episode of this, and if you haven't had a chance to listen, um, you can go back. We dropped a trailers like a two-part trailer on kind of previewing this and then also the first episode, um, on YouTube where we sort of like laid the framework. But one of the things that we talked about was we talked about this idea of a funnel.

Nick Clason (03:08):
And so if you are watching, you'll see me try to create one with my hands, but a funnel kinda like a triangle, right? The top is wider. You're gonna catch more people and the bottom is more narrow. Uh, the thing that most churches don't understand is that they actually start probably, um, depending on your marketing strategy. And I know that churches probably bach at that term marketing in some cases, but, um, churches almost always start with people more mid to bottom of the funnel. And so what then becomes tricky is you already have a very committed group of people that are already very deeply invested in your organization. They're just not, um, you're just not getting people on the top of the funnel, especially if you're a church that's, that's dying or hasn't seen new, um, people, you know, come through your doors in a while.

Nick Clason (03:55):
And so social media might be one of your avenues to try and do that. And it very much can be YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, all four of those phenomenal platforms. But in order to, and also might I add before I continue on, they're great marketing platforms too. Like some of the best marketing that our world has ever seen, cheapest marketing that our world has ever seen. So you can utilize those two year advantage. However, email and texts, I think are ways to drive people down the funnel more. Um, once they've found you on Instagram, once they found you on YouTube, once they've found you on t TikTok to drive them down the funnel more, um, and then ultimately become more and more, um, super fans of you. And I know that's not what we're trying to do in church, uh, but before they become a committed Christian, cuz ultimately the goal is to drive them to become a deeper, more devoted disciple of Jesus.

Nick Clason (04:51):
But if they're just discovering you on social media for the first time as a church, uh, you just want them to like you, right? You just want them to trust you as a church. You just want them to think your content is useful, beneficial, um, and helpful to them in their life. And so you just wanna drive them deeper and deeper. And so maybe you offer them something free like an ebook or maybe you offer them something, um, you know, like a checklist that they can get, uh, on their own and they, they sign up for an email list or a text messaging list or something like that and you drive them deeper down the funnel, right? And so that you a little bit, you gotta think about it, you might have a couple different tracks kind of going on. And that's what like super next level marketers do is they have like this, this track of people that are already their contributors or people who've already bought things and they got people who are just like in an awareness sort of like track trying to like discover more about your company.

Nick Clason (05:39):
Okay? But here's the thing about email, and here's the thing about text is that they cost almost $0 to facilitate, uh, especially if you're like not looking to go full out, you know, become like a business on this. You're just trying to become a church to supplement what else you have going on on social media where some of these other platforms, yeah, you can do them all for free, but to really get some of that like, like legitimate organic, um, or I'm sorry, not organic, but some of that legitimate like far-reaching reach that people are often looking for. If you wanna like have an amazing Easter ad or something like that, you're probably gonna have to put some dollars behind it. And that's true just about everything in life. If you want something that is incredible and is gonna work for you to the best of its abilities, it's gonna probably be behind some sort of premium paywall, whether that be a tech service or an email service.

Nick Clason (06:34):
However, as a church, you probably already have some of these tools at your disposal that you may or may not be tapping into depending on how much know-how you have. Cuz just about every church in America, um, has or should have some sort of church management software people, uh, a people software, a data captures sort of thing, you know, church, community builder, the rock, whatever. All of those have email, um, woven into it as well as text messaging woven into it. However, are they the most useful and beneficial advantageous of, you know, taking those emails, creating a funnel type content, moving people through a pathway and a process just depends if you kind of know, if you know what you're doing on there. So let's dive in a little bit more on that before we do a couple of just quick hitter stats so that you're aware of why text messaging and email can be so effective in your church today in 2023.

Nick Clason (07:31):
First thing is this, 94% of people on the internet use email. 94%. That is crazy, right? That is more than TikTok. That is more than Facebook. That's like a wider adoption percentage of people. Almost everyone on the internet has an email account. Furthermore, 75% of adult users on the internet say that email marketing is their preferred form of marketing, which is fascinating because I don't think that we often think of email or texts as, as sexy as some of these other social media type platforms. But, uh, three, three quarters of people that use the, uh, internet so that they would just prefer email marketing to be done to them via email. The return on investment, the ROI is higher on these platforms, texting and email than they are on other social channels. And then finally, text message, open rates can go as high as get this, are you ready for it?

Nick Clason (08:31):
98%. So let's dive in. Let's unpack what's going on here and why this can be so important and advantageous for your church. All right, so what is email marketing? If you were to just go on and you were to, to Google email marketing, there's a potential that you could get kind of lost in the weeds of, of terminology and words that are maybe not super familiar to you. But at its core, basically email marketing is an opportunity for an organization to connect regularly with its fans and at a church level, right? Like maybe they're not fans, but it's an opportunity for us to connect with members of our congregation. There's a lot of ways that churches actually believe it or not, have a upper hand on some companies with email marketing. And the reason of that is because they, like I said, they already have kind of a core base of people.

Nick Clason (09:24):
We already have a core base of people that we are pulling from, all right? And so it's not solely dependent upon us to craft and curate and build our own email list from zero. We already sort of have a base that we're starting with. And that's, that's an amazing place to be and that's an amazing advantage that we as a church, I I think sometimes we lament our, our position in the space. Like, oh, what was us? We're just a church, blah, blah, blah. Like, we have advantages that like other companies don't have. We're often handed email list with already done work for us. And so we just need to steward that well and continue to build upon that. And so I think that there's a, there's a space and a way to do that. Um, the church, like right, oftentimes we might have a hard time with social media or marketing or websites, but in this particular case and in this particular space, I think the church might actually have an upper hand.

Nick Clason (10:15):
So who is email marketing for you might be asking. It's for, honestly, it's for everybody. We said 94% of internet users say and claim that they have an internet account or an email account on the internet. So yeah, you should be using email in your church, you should be sending out regular updates. And here's the thing, um, and we're gonna talk about this a lot in the next episode, but if we have stuff on social media, we can use our email to supplement, to push, to promote people towards what we're already doing online so we can help connect our people, especially in our church, to what we're doing online. And then we can use online to help connect people to our email marketing list to help connect them to our church, our local body, our local assembly. Okay, so how do we start this? What do we do?

Nick Clason (11:03):
If you're like, okay, great, I'm in, I'm sold, what do I do? Well, first and foremost, if you're part of a church, you're probably watching this as a church, you know, social media manager, a youth pastor or a volunteer who's been handed the reigns of running social media on your church, what are you supposed to do? In most cases, like I said, I believe most churches, um, probably do, and if they don't, they probably should have some sort of church management database system. You know, I currently at the church, I'm at used church Community builder. In the past I've used Rock, I've used, um, uh, we've used ACS realm, we've used planning Center people. These are all different ones that I've used in different places. I've been in my, my ministry, my life. Uh, the reality is you probably want to at least start there because there's going to be the vast majority of your data, of your people, of your email addresses living and existing in there.

Nick Clason (11:59):
And depending on the, uh, decision making prowess of people, there are gonna be people who in your church, who've already invested in that, paid for that and want you to be using it. I think that that's a great place to start. Um, what if your church doesn't have a database? Well, I definitely would encourage you to do it, and I know that there are some free ones out there. I know that Planning Center people, I believe, at least when I looked at it, this is like five plus years ago, but they said that they would be forever and always free. Um, there are other modules, which is part of the, the downside is like you can get all your data in planning center people, but then to use it for giving or to use it for events or whatever, like those aren't free. And so for them to pair and work well with each other, uh, you have to start paying.

Nick Clason (12:46):
And so that's the downside. However, let me just say my favorite, the planning center you pay like individually, so like a giving is a, a different price and events is a different price and registration is a different price and services is a different price and all these things, it, it adds up quickly. However, let me just say it's, it was my favorite database I ever worked with, ever, ever, ever. Um, I currently, and most churches I feel like have adopted like c b Church community seems to be a really popular one. Um, very much not my favorite one. It's, it's good, it's sleek, it's got web interface, that's fine. But like on the email side, on the marketing side, and I know that, um, if you guys have been around from the very, very beginning listening to our podcast, if you go back and listen to episode one, the episode like seven or eight, I had a co-host, his name was Matt, he moved and his new job wouldn't really allow him to, to be on this podcast regularly.

Nick Clason (13:39):
So we've sorta, um, amicably parted ways. He's doing his thing, I'm doing my thing. But Matt was a marketing a marketer first that worked in a church. And I know that his big thing was that databases don't always give him what he wanted as a marketer. So as a marketer, like someone who works in the business space, what he recommended was HubSpot. Um, and that is, that's for making money for businesses and churches are built, uh, with a different, um, need on those church management softwares. And he thought that we could do everything we needed to do for churches in HubSpot. Now, um, to, uh, you know, to push back on that a little bit, he might not have known everything that we needed as churches, right? Like for example, HubSpot might not have a baptism date field in the church community in the like database thing, right?

Nick Clason (14:33):
But it is, it will give you everything that you need for email addresses, websites, you can create ClickFunnels, you can create, uh, all types of things where you can very easily capture someone's name and email address and then move them down a pathway or a process. And that's what Matt was trying to do at the church that we were both at in Chicago, at Parkview. Ultimately, that's part of the reason why he ended up stepping away. And myself as well. We just, we, he couldn't get people on board with the idea. All that being said, you, if you don't have something, you should have something and you should at least start with exploring some of these free ones. So I'll drop some of these links in the show notes, uh, HubSpot, I'll drop planning center people in the, in the show notes so that you have those things to check out.

Nick Clason (15:16):
Um, hopefully that's something that's useful and beneficial to you. What should you expect? The, the one main thing I want you to know is that you should not get discouraged by what seems to be low email open rates. So according to studies that have been done for years and years and years, the average email list open rate is 21.3%, which I get that seems crazy low, but when it pertains to email marketing, if you're anywhere in that range, you are succeeding. Surprisingly. I know it's crazy. Uh, this is why delivering things like valuable content with interesting subjects and things that are gonna actually cause people to actually click open the emails is so important. I mean, just think about it for yourself, right? You probably get inundated with emails and you probably just bulk delete them. You're not gonna open them. That's exactly why email openers are at 21.3%.

Nick Clason (16:07):
That's why it's important to be creative with your subjects. So a couple of things, send it from a person. I've found, uh, if you send it from such and such baptist church.com, uh, this week's announcements that is so easy to ignore, I'm sorry, no offense, no one cares about your announcements enough to open your email list because they're also swimming through their child's elementary school email list and they're Cole's coupons that they're getting. And like all these things, right? They don't care. But if you send it from Pastor Jim and he says, this one key thing helped me grow my faith, all of a sudden you're like, wait, what was that? I wanna know what Pastor Jim's, one key thing to growing in his faith was maybe I should click open that. And then what that is is that's a short little blurb and then boom it to link out to a YouTube short or a full YouTube message that you've done.

Nick Clason (16:54):
All of a sudden, wait a minute, now we're cooking with gas. See what I'm saying? And if you're not just always only capturing moments from your sermons, then when you send it to your church, people who have already maybe seen that because they've already attended your service. However, keep in mind, at least in most churches I've been to the average person attends 1.4 times per month. So that means they probably more than likely didn't see the sermon. So that is not a bad strategy. However, if you have the bandwidth in time to create something more like a podcast or something else or some other like, um, some other resource that explains more to them, that's gonna be even more valuable. Where your pastor's sitting down having a conversation with another person on staff or a host and he's talking through some of these things and it's maybe sermon related or sermon adjacent, but not just sermon.

Nick Clason (17:43):
So that's an example of how you can start to kind of bump your email open rates, think through sending it from an actual person and think through crafting sub uh, subjects that spark and evoke curiosity. So that's email marketing. What's text message marketing? So same thing, short message service or sms. You probably heard that before. Marketing is another word to just say text message marketing, but it's a form of marketing that businesses use to send promotions to customers via text message. There's three main benefits of SMS messaging as far as I can see. Number one, it's fast, okay? As opposed to waiting and hoping for people to discover your content and social media, you post it, you kinda wait, you see, does this thing hit the lottery tickets? Do the views go up? SMS messaging your fans, followers, people that likeactually post SMS hap uh, messaging happens almost instantaneously.

Nick Clason (18:37):
Secondly, the open rates are ridiculous. Open rates are an alarming 98%, which compared to email marketing seems like a messaging hack that is almost too good to be true and you might be right. And then finally, response rates are also good too. You can send a message and rates are are good. Around 45% of people say that they respond to text messaging, uh, messages compared to only about 7% of click rate through email marketing statistics. So those are some of the, um, upsides. Who is it for? Well definitely for, for I think younger people in your church, gen z, gen Alpha, who may only have like an email address to create an account. Um, and they don't, they only like nominally check it. Um, also for parents, um, for people in your church, people, almost everyone has a cell phone these days so you can use it.

Nick Clason (19:27):
The downfalls of it though can be tricky because you are gonna be navigating some red tape and I will drop a link in the show notes for more of that. Um, and kind of how to navigate that so that you don't get in trouble with like, um, the government and people who are trying to regulate text messaging and text messaging marketing. Um, but while that 98% open rate seems like something you may want to take advantage of it, you also want to be careful not to abuse it either. For example, um, I order my t-shirts from an, actually this is one of those t-shirts, um, from an online t-shirt company and I clicked up, I clicked on a text messaging thing, um, when I ordered to get like a discount and they text me every single day. I ignored them honestly, like I'm not, but the thing is, I'll probably go back and order from them.

Nick Clason (20:12):
And so when that time comes, I'll scroll back through my messages and see are they offering any sort of promo right now before I go back in order. However, you gotta be careful to not blur that line. So I would suggest probably somewhere between one and two times a week a absolute maximum, maybe even less. But you can, again, if you add value and you send something that's interesting, people are going to be much more inclined to open it. If you're just listen to me. If you're just sending announcement after announcement after announcement about in-person event, in-person event, in-person event, they're not interested in that. However, if you're like, Hey, have you seen this hilarious TikTok that we just posted? Check it out. People might be more inclined to click through some of those things that may seem unspiritual to you. You just have to weigh the benefit of it.

Nick Clason (20:59):
Cuz here's the thing, if you do send that a few times and that becomes something that people look forward to, then when you do send something meaningful and valuable, they're actually going to click on it and not ignore it because you've sent them things before that seem normal that aren't just invitations back to the church picnic. So the best way to start, I would say, is to build this through your database. Um, some databases require weird things like ours, church community builder, they require needing to know the carrier. So like Verizon at and t, um, others, you can, you can collect them through other text messaging services that you pay per text or whatever. Um, whatever the case may be. A great place to start is probably your church database cuz you've already gotten permission to collect some of that data and so thus to then start parcelling off and using some of that, uh, is not a bad place to start with already a base of people.

Nick Clason (21:50):
Just make sure that someone has a hook into being able to sign up for a text messaging service if that's something that, uh, they're gonna be able to want to do. Like I said, there are some rules for it. So make sure that you check those out. Link in the show notes. Last but not least, I would definitely be remiss to not mention website. You wanna have a website, um, not necessarily an app and um, our friend Brady Sheer talks about this all the time, so go search stuff on him about church apps. But you wanna have a good mobile friendly website that you can sort of operate as your central stop for everyone in your church and they can know that they can always go to that website and they can get the information that they need. So then your email and your text messaging things are not your primary vehicles and drivers of communication.

Nick Clason (22:38):
And so if someone's like, crap, where's that information? They're not having to dig back through emails and be like, is that the one? Is that the one? Is that the one? They can know that they're gonna go to your website and it's gonna be useful and reliable. And so I'm not gonna talk much on that cuz that's gonna sort of be the glue to everything in the next episode. But we can't, um, we cannot neglect and we cannot forget to talk about the importance of a good mobile friendly website that people can access on their phones at just about any given time in the world. That links and curates and pulls together all of these social media, email, tech, all these things and they all sort of swirl in and the website is your central spot where all of those are pointing back too. Well, hey everyone, thanks again so much for hanging out in this episode.

Nick Clason (23:26):
I hope you found this info about email and text messaging helpful. I know I didn't give a lot of like very like, Hey, go to this website and do it because a lot of it is gonna be dependent upon your church. So start exploring, start having those conversations and if they're not existing, hey, guess what? You are the pioneer of this. Don't let it die like it is your, uh, you. This is something that you can steward and that you can take to help spread the message of Jesus to both the people in your church. Drive them deeper down that funnel to be more devoted followers of Christ as well as helping people outside of your church connect more and more with your local church. You are doing an incredible work. Keep it up. Um, and don't forget as always to stay hybrid.

Full transcripts and other resources available at: http://www.hybridministry.xyz
FREE Social media checklist at: https://merry-swamp-3547.fireside.fm/articles/free-social-media-checklist
Or come hang on TikTok at http://www.tiktok.com/@clasonnick

TIMECODES
00:00-04:12 What we can learn from The Office
04:12-07:24 Digital - Ryan
07:24-09:16 In Person - Michael
09:16-11:21 How to make those two become Hybrid
11:21-14:57 Sermons
14:57-16:12 Helping People Find Community
16:12-17:53 Bible Reading
17:53-19:38 Outro

TRANSCRIPT
Nick Clason (00:02):
What is up everybody? Welcome to another episode of the Hybrid Ministry podcast. So excited to be here with you. My name is Nick Clason, and I am of course your host. Glad to have you today. You know, I wanted to talk a little bit about, um, a little bit different of an episode today. I wanted to look at an episode from the American TV show, the Office. Now obviously, like many, many of us are very familiar with this television show, right? Um, and you know, it's actually really funny. I have a coworker who's younger, she's in her twenties, and she didn't even know that the show ever even aired on like Network tv. She thought it was always a streaming show. So anyway, so I'm, I'm doing a little re-watch of this show, and I mean, here's the thing, like truth be told, I'm kind of like always doing a re-watch of this show.

Nick Clason (00:53):
I'm always, it's always at some level or some layer available to me. But the episode in particular that I wanted to focus on was from season four, episode two. It's called Dunder Mifflin Infinity. And if you're not familiar with the show, let me just bring you up to speed a little bit on it. So, Ryan, new manager at Dunder Mifflin. Um, Michael is still the, uh, the regional manager, the guy that everyone's kind of like used to and, and no, and he's famous and whatever and whatnot. Ryan is now his boss. And so that lasts for about a season. But Ryan is this new kind of young, up and coming guy. And so Ryan's entire like focus and identity and purpose is, he wants to bring D Mifflin into the 21st century. He wants to digitize them. And so Ryan is sort of this all digital, this all kind of person, right?

Nick Clason (01:40):
Online is the future. This is how it needs to happen, this is how it goes. Eventually, Ryan ends up in jail for fraud. So it doesn't exactly end up well for him, but let's just take a look at this episode in a microcosm. Um, conversely, there's Michael, who's old school. Michael's all about relationships. Michael's all about customer service. That's always sort of been done. Mifflin's calling card in the office is they're able to, um, out customer service, the big box retail guys. So what they're doing constantly in all of their sales and all those things is they're saying like, Hey, we're better than Staples. We're better than Office Depot, and we're able to supply you guys with the best possible customer service. And so we have Michael, basically we have Michael versus Ryan, right? In this, in this episode. And as I was watching it, it made me, um, it made me really like interested in this juxtaposition that we find ourselves in the church, in digital versus in person.

Nick Clason (02:41):
All right? And so, um, basically to, to summarize, uh, the rest of the episode, Ryan's pushing everyone to be more digital, gives everybody blackberries. Like that's the whole thing. Michael is opposing it. Jan, his now, uh, girlfriend is telling him that, um, he can sue Ryan for being, um, ages istic, um, and pushing out all the old people. And so, um, in an attempt to win everybody back over, Michael takes gift baskets to 10 clients that they've lost and that have, uh, switched over to other companies. And in that, while he's doing that, right, people are like, Hey, um, thank you so much for this gift basket, but that website thing that you're talking about, that's actually quite interesting to me. So let me know when that's a, when that's up and running. I'll be interested in exploring coming back to your company. And so there's wins for them, um, but there still are wins in the kind of like customer service side of things.

Nick Clason (03:41):
And so if you're a fan of the show at all, uh, just real quick, Michael drives his car into a lake because he is following a GPS way too closely and way too literally. And, um, he comes back to the office soaking wet and he thinks that he's lost. And, but in the meantime, for some reason, Ryan doesn't have the kones to stand up to Michael and just put him in his place, which I always find odd and interesting, but it's just this kind of weird tension between the digital guy and the in-person guy. So let's explore digital real quick. So Ryan is the digital guy where online is the future. And, and it's where everyone's going. I mean, that's kind of the entire thrust of the entire nine seasons, right? Is that this company is becoming so irrelevant with how they're doing things that like all the other guys are, are passing them.

Nick Clason (04:28):
Like even in the beginning of this episode, there's a funny kind of bit where Ryan is talking about the overhaul of the website, and Jim goes, well, I don't know what's wrong with our website. And he goes to it and it's got like this little, uh, stick figure animation that says under construction coming soon, and it gives like a year. And like at the time of the airing, like that year had already passed. And so therefore it just goes to show that they had not at all and in any way been investing in their website, which is such a wild thing to think about how recently this show aired. Like that was, that's an, that was a necessary thing for people back then, or at least I feel like it should have been. And maybe, um, I'm forgetting how much older that show is, right?

Nick Clason (05:08):
But anyway, so Ryan's coming in and he's ready to overhaul this whole thing. And I, I see elements of myself in Ryan, um, and how I viewed digital ministry, um, very recently, and even maybe still a little bit if I am being completely and totally honest, right? So, uh, in the ways that I, I see myself like Ryan, I'm pushing all my chips into the middle, uh, saying I'm all in on online because I look at all the stats. I see that generation Z millennials, uh, high percentage of people are living their lives on Facebook. Uh, gen Z spends five to eight hours of screen time a day. And so therefore I'm like, we need to show up where they are. And I still believe those things, by the way, right? But sometimes at the, at the downfall of what happens on, uh, in an in-person experience or an in-person ministry type of moment, um, I forget that like there are valuable things, um, that can happen in the in-person type of moment.

Nick Clason (06:09):
And also, uh, the way I am, I'm, I, I often play devil's advocate. And so I feel like in uh, organizations, I kind of come in and I end up sort of taking the role of the change agent. And so if everything is, uh, a pendulum swing to, um, all the in-person style of ministry, I'm trying to push them to think about things another way. Not that I don't agree with these things, but just that like this church or this organization that I'm working in, they don't need more of that, right? They need more of this. And so my attitude and my posture becomes one of kind of all in and continually pushing in that way. So, uh, definitely in the last church I worked in, like there was this big argument on the heels of Covid. Covid was over. People were done with it.

Nick Clason (06:52):
They were ready to either come back or be in person or give up online, whatever. And I thought we were doing some valuable things online. And so therefore, I was making an attempt to continue to remain online. And so all I talked about all the things, I said, all my arguments were online, online, online. And I wonder if people that I worked with, like, do you, do you even care about some of this other in-person stuff? And the answer of course is, yes, I did. Right? But like, because of my personality and my devil's advocate this, I needed to keep pushing about it that way.

Nick Clason (07:26):
So let's look at Michael. Michael, anti-d digital anti online wants to be all about in-person, right? He's saying customer service still matters. He brings the gift baskets to all of his customers. I would say that I resonate with Michael in this episode very much like when I, uh, was back in Bible college, right? Um, in a lot of ways when I'm in college, I didn't have the ability to kind of nuance or think about things or see things in other ways. And so like this, like this is the way that it has to be. This is the way it's supposed to be very like dogmatic, right? Like I would say you can't do church without being together. Um, and I've even had conversations with, uh, former students of mine who've said those types of things, like, well, preaching has to be in person. And maybe one day I'll do a deep dive.

Nick Clason (08:14):
Um, first of all, I need to do some study into the theology of preaching in the theology of proclaiming God's word, right? But like, I need to look into that and say like, can preaching and can the exposition or delivering of God's word be done in a different way than behind a pulpit? And I guess I would have to say, I think it has to be, because biblically speaking, most pastors, exhorters teachers, overseers, shepherds, were not behind a pulpit. Like that's, that's a much more recent phenomenon. And so to say that that's the only way it can be can't actually be true. Cuz if you look at the Bible, that's not the way it was back then. And if we wanna wanna be true to what the Bible has to say and what the word of God has to say, then I don't know that we can make that, that, you know, conclusion.

Nick Clason (09:03):
Exactly. And so we see Michael very much in that like, this is how it has to be unwilling to kind of move and change and flex and adopt and become different, right? Like with the times and like, what's going on? All right, so that was Ryan. That was Michael. Well, now let's look at a hybrid approach to this, right? Because as I was watching this, obviously it's for comedy and obviously, right, it's for show, but Ryan and Michael, in my personal opinion were both right, but both of them were so consumed with winning, right? That like, it became, uh, comical about who is gonna win this guy or that guy, right? So, so Michael didn't want to go online at all. And I think that's dumb. Like there is going to be value in that, especially when you're watching the episode and some of the customers that he's seeing are like, uh, yeah, let me know when your website's back.

Nick Clason (09:57):
I think that they could do both, right? They could, they could have good customer service and have a good online sort of port, uh, portal, right? And make those things marry together. I think that, um, they could really serve their customers well cuz they are still small. And so if they were able to come up with a relevant, useful, good, uh, website, then could they bring that to their customers? And I think the answer to that is yes. And I wish that they would've, uh, seen that and that Michael and Ryan would've come together and willing and were willing more to work in like, sort of like a hybrid sort of way. I think. Um, Ryan wanted to go strictly online and was not concerned about losing the touch of, uh, their personal, uh, customer service, their personal touchability that Dunder Mifflin had. And I think that that's a big loss for him.

Nick Clason (10:47):
I think he's missing out on a pretty important moment. Why? Because, uh, Ryan, uh, didn't know what d mifflin's as up the sleeve was. The asep the sleeve was their customer service. So the people that were choosing to be with them did not want to be with them because of a nice new flashy website. Of course, he's thinking about reaching people, but how do you retain the people that are already there, um, as customers of your paper company? Okay? So I think both of them play a role. I think they mesh together really well. And at that intersection is where we find hybrid ministry. So let's explore in church, um, the pairing of the Ryan and the Michael, and where can some live things that we have a church have adopted or have become customary or we're just so used to, where can some of those live things be made more digital?

Nick Clason (11:39):
Okay, so number one, we have sermons. Let's talk about sermons again. I think one day I'd love to do a deep dive, maybe that'll be a future episode here of, um, sermons and exposition of the Bible and teaching and proclaiming of, of God's word. Um, where can some of those things be made into a digital format? Well, first and foremost, if you are preaching a sermon every single week, you can record that audio and immediately turn that into podcast. I read something that, um, the majority of adults, uh, listened to eight hours of podcasts a week. And so, um, I know like last week, for example, let me give you an example of my own life. I went to like a membership class at my church and I've told you guys, I'm new at my church. Um, and we weren't able to go to service or we were, but we kind of chose not to.

Nick Clason (12:28):
So hopefully anyone who like, um, I work for, sorry about that. Um, and guess what I did? I, I went and I was like, I'm gonna listen to this podcast, uh, later throughout the week. And so that is a really easy way for, for people in your church who miss. And it might even be, uh, easy way for people, um, who are unconnected to your church to come to, uh, at least an awareness of your church at a very like elementary level. And all you need to do is some simple plugin things into your audio board, capture your pastor's audio, some pretty basic mixing on the back end. You maybe don't even need to do a ton, as long as it doesn't sound horrendous. And then just upload that thing to an iTunes, um, apple podcast, Spotify podcast capture so that people can discover it.

Nick Clason (13:15):
Another layer to that of course could be to create like YouTube sermons. So to record your, um, sermon and your audio and pair those together. Of course, if you listen to my last episode, um, my 2023 and Beyond YouTube strategy for churches, I highly, highly recommend pre-filing your content, pairing down your sermons. Cuz most sermons or lectures are anywhere from 25 to 45 minutes long. And that's a little bit too long for the YouTube algorithm. You want to try and slide somewhere between that 12 and 18 minute range for videos on YouTube. So of course you could do that as well. Again, all you're doing is taking your content from your sermon and you're overlaying it and creating an opportunity for it to be digital, right? So like then another option is you have your sermons. So break those up into small short TikTok clips.

Nick Clason (14:07):
Like if you're not good at video editing, an option that you can do is you can take, uh, just a camera like I'm doing and talk directly into it and create 30 to 62nd clips from your message. Like you already have the content. So even if you can't get a clip from the actual pastor preaching a sermon, you can still use the same topic or the same content or the same passage and rip that post that and do 3, 4, 5 different little like sermon clips throughout the week. You can use that in short form video and everything, every single platform, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, and TikTok are all about the short form video content. So use those things to your advantage. So with your sermons, you got got audio podcasts, you got YouTube videos, and you also have short form video. TikTok style clips. Another option for a thing that, um, is done live, but can be made.

Nick Clason (15:03):
Um, digital is a group finder. Most churches are all about community, are about helping people get connected, find their place, find their place to serve, uh, find, have something on your website that operates as a connection portal, uh, connect group, a small group, a grow group, or whatever you call your small groups. Have people be able to go on there and browse and search, make it user friendly. Uh, a lot of church management softwares will have those things as an available option that you can use some sort of group finder type of thing or just build something on your website. But the reality is, is like in my personal life, if I can't get an appointment with a dentist or a doctor or whatever through creating an appointment online, I don't want to use them. So I'm probably not gonna call, I'm probably not gonna email.

Nick Clason (15:51):
I might email. Um, but if I can have a full service, create an appointment type of thing online, I'm gonna do that. And I think the same is true for churches, especially for finding community, for finding groups, for finding places to jump in, uh, and be able to serve. So create something that's full scale, full service and available for your people to use, uh, to find community. The last option is daily devotionals. We all know the importance of getting people in the word, but there's a recent stat out there that said 8% of Christ following Christians, uh, read the Bible only one time a week, 8%. So how can we as a church, help give our people the tools that they have? There are an unlimited amount of tools. Now think about before the printing press. What did they have to use? They had to go to church to get the Bible, but now they can access it on their phone.

Nick Clason (16:45):
Probably many of us have multiple Bibles on our shelves at home. So how can we help get people, um, using scripture throughout their week? So a couple of options are, uh, the U version Bible plan, uh, u version Bible app on people's phones. They have plans, you can read things together, you can also put sermon notes on there so that people can follow along. And then when they're done at the bottom, you can link out to a plan to read together or to encourage people to read through on their own u version. Done by Life Church is an absolutely incredible tool for churches and it's only getting better. So use that as something that you can help promote scripture and um, bible literacy with the people in your church and in your congregation. Another option, of course, like I said, is um, you can use devotional type content.

Nick Clason (17:28):
So this is different than sermon content, but devotional content or going deeper on the sermon or something like that. And you can do that in TikTok, real short form video. Uh, you can even do like a little mini-series, like how to read the Bible and do a three-part series and post it, uh, on your social media for the week. But what are different ways that you can use social media, short form video, TikTok and those types of things to create devotional type content. So like I said, I think that there's been this, this fight between digital Ryan Howard and in person Michael Scott in the Dunner Mifflin Affinity episode. And I just wish I could have got together and helped counsel them. Been like, this is how you can marry those two things. And I find that to be true in the church community and coming together and praying and crying on each other's shoulders and carrying one another's burdens.

Nick Clason (18:21):
That's so important. And it cannot be done digitally, but people also need to be discipled. People need to read Bible content. People need to hear the truth from God's word, and they're not always available to show up to your in-person event in a physical form. So what are ways that you can support people in your church to help them, uh, through the means, through the the phone that's sitting in their pocket to help coach them and and teach them what it's like to live a life? Um, that's not just digital, not just physical, but it's hybrid. Hey guys, once again, thanks for hanging out. Uh, we've, we have full transcripts for every single episode over at hybridministry.xyz. I'd love to encourage you to go check that out. It's a great place to find some stuff there. Also, um, on my personal TikTok @ClasonNick, c-l-a-s-o-n-n-i-c-k, uh, posting little clips, um, from podcast episodes, um, current and past. So go check out on, hang out with us there. Love to connect with you in that way. Until next time, we'll talk to you all later.

SHOWNOTES
https://blog.hubspot.com/marketing/gen-z-myths?utm_campaign=Marketing%20Blog%20-%20Daily%20Emails&utm_medium=email&utm_content=223400490&utm_source=hs_email

TIMECODES
00:00-00:35 Myths about Generation Z
00:35-3:34 Why do we keep focusing on Gen Z?
3:34-6:04 Myth 1: Gen Z is obsessed with fast fashion
6:04-8:22 Myth 2: Data and Privacy are irrelevant to Gen Z
8:22-10:43 Myth 3: TikTok is the best place to reach Gen Z
10:43-14:51 Myth 4: Put a product in front of Gen Z and they will buy it
14:51-17:15 Outro

TRANSCRIPT
Nick Clason (00:01):
What's up everybody and welcome to another episode of the hybrid ministry podcast, solo pod this morning. Uh, I mentioned several weeks back, uh, that I had just given notice to my church. Um, and so I'm kind of in a little bit of a transition. And so I'm from church and Chicago to a church in, uh, Dallas, Texas. And so got weird travel schedule going on. So me and Matt's, uh, schedule is having a hard time lining up. So, uh, today I just wanted to chat through just a quick couple of generation Z. Um, miss, uh, and the first thing I wanted to do with that is, uh, I pulled this article from a HubSpot article. I'll link it in the show notes, super interesting. And obviously HubSpot is not a Christian company. And so they're focused more on marketing than they are, you know, like on the church or whatever.

Nick Clason (00:53):
Uh, but what I wanted to say was I wanted to say, why, why do we keep honing in on gen Z? Um, I think, uh, I've just had like a, I don't know, a realization over the last little bit that like churches are, um, built, I think for, for older generations, you know, they're, they're, they're doing it the way, um, it's always been done. Um, and I think that there is probably a rethink that needs to take place. And I think that when you say that to, to maybe some older generations, gen X, um, boomer, there's just an immediate knee jerk of like, you know, you can't get rid of this, you can't get rid of that. Maybe the Sunday morning se sermon, um, the way we dress, the way we do things like, and I get that, right. There's a, there's a safety and a comfort in, um, just the traditions and the habits that have been built.

Nick Clason (01:47):
But I think gen Z is actually a really interesting case study because, and the reason I think it's important is because I don't know that the church is being super, um, relevant to reach them. I think that the church is doing things the way it's always been done. I think you look across the landscape of, uh, church leadership. The majority of church leaders are older in their forties, fifties, some even in their sixties. Um, and you know, like you, you hate to like categorize anybody, but they may just be kinda like hanging on until retirement. And so are they really looking to innovate? Are they really looking to reach and like, sure they're looking to reach, um, but maybe they're trying to do so in such a way that is done, um, reaching people the way that, that, that they're used to reaching it and the type of model that they're built. And so the reason we keep honing in, at least I keep honing in on gen Z. First of all, like I've said before, I am a youth pastor. So that is, you know, immediately in my kinda like purview. But the second thing is I think the church needs to adapt, not because to try and reach a specific generation, but because them millennials as well and all the generations that are gonna

Nick Clason (02:58):
Come after gen Z are gonna be different. So how can the church, which is in my personal and theological opinion, the most relevant institution in the world, it is the one that has stood the test of time. And so this isn't me coming in and just like slinging mud at the church. It's me, um, caring deeply about the church and how do we help take it to what could be the next level. And so, um, just one this article, like I said, okay, so we're gonna kind of dive into this article, um, is five, five gen Z myths debunked. Um, and so the first one, it says gen Z is obsessed with fast fashion. All right. So obviously as a church, we don't give a ton of care to fashion or apparel or they're pur purchasing things. However, um, you know, I think that the, the, the thing that is interesting to pull kind of out of this point here is that they're saying that they're interested in fast fashion.

Nick Clason (03:56):
That is a myth. Um, and it's not just about what's cheapest because as I'm looking at a graph that they share question here says, does gen Z think companies should take a stance on social issues? Uh, 50% of gen Z say yes, where 26% say no, and then 24% say not sure. And I think that that piece right there is incredibly relevant for the church, because I think oftentimes as a church, we, uh, hold back our opinions because we're afraid, uh, to ostracize anybody. And I understand it and I get the notion of it. I get the importance of staying in the middle. Uh, but the people, especially the younger people that we're serving, they wanna know where we stand on things. They want us to take a stance. And that's difficult, I think, as a church because, you know, uh, gen Z tends to skew maybe a little bit more left and our church tends to skew maybe a little bit more, right.

Nick Clason (04:51):
If we're just speaking politically. And so how do you take a stance on what I think is most important is to take a stance the way that Jesus would take a stance. Uh, but that can be challenging, cuz that might go against either a, a gen Z type person or B, it might go against, uh, the rest of your church or their, their older framework. So how is the church? Do you have the courage to stand up and to take the stances that you need to take the, and the stances that matter to gen Z? Um, and I think perhaps the reason that we pull back on that as a church is because our church's stance coming from maybe a little more conservative position is gonna go against a little more liberal of a position of, uh, what gen Z you know, uh, typically cares about the final paragraph, right? Just to kind of highlight that the final paragraph of this, um, this first point says we, when we ask gen Zers who want companies to take a stance on which issues and which are most important to them, racial justice was by far the top at 69% followed by LGBTQ plus rights, 50% gender inequality, 46 and climate change,

Nick Clason (05:57):

1. So again, just to highlight the things that gen Z is saying is the most important thing for them. Uh, the second thing here, the second myth that is debunked is that data, privacy and security are irrelevant for gen Z. And so again, they're saying that that's a myth, right? Because you know, it says here this first paragraph, I get why many people believe this one gen Z's known for being glued to their phones, which obviously comes with the risk of unsecured and unrestricted data. Right? However, it actually is the kind of the opposite. So gen Z's looking for data security, they want that to matter. So as a church, as you're creating more, maybe hybrid opportunities online giving, um, collecting their data, how are you, um, how are you, uh, keeping track of their data and how are you ensuring that it's it's safe, right?

Nick Clason (06:47):
Uh, furthermore, it goes on to share graph and it says, uh, gen Z's more likely to purchase from brands that number one treat their employees. Well, that's at 84% that they can trust with their data as high as 83%, um, donate to a, a portion of their profits to charity 68% actively try to reduce the environmental impact. 60% are committed to diversity and inclusion. 53% and advocate for racial justice. 51% are small businesses. 46% advocate for gender equality. 42% are owned by a person of color. 39% are owned by a member of LGBTQ. Plus 38% are woman owned, 37% and advocate for LGBTQ rights, 37%. So as you can see, the purchase decisions are strongly influenced by whether or not they can trust a company with their data, second ranked highest, but also the care about the, the issues like the, the social issues. And they're looking for those things, they care about those things.

Nick Clason (07:42):
And so they're gonna trust and subsequently not trust institutions that, um, that care about the things that they care about and the church we're an institution, just, we are, we're a large institution. I know we're not really a family and it should be different. And once you get into a church, I think you typically find that in most churches, especially the ones that are healthy, um, but from an outsider, especially a gen Z outsider, looking in, they're gonna look at that institution and they're gonna have some pause. They're gonna be concerned, you know, about a couple of things. Um, and as a church, how do we, how do we best make a bridge towards them? Okay. The third myth to debunk and this, listen, this is something we've talked about in this podcast. A billion times, TikTok is the best way to reach gen Z. All right. So check out what this first paragraph here says. This is a TikTok is obviously a great space for gen Z. It offers a genuine feel to the content that no other app provides. The style is quite attractive for some of our shorter attention spans and busy schedules. And in fact, 10 TikTok is the app that gen Z uses most often, despite this surprisingly, or maybe not. It is not our favorite social media platform when

Nick Clason (08:54):
Asked gen Z of their favorite social media app, Instagram and YouTube easily took the cake with TikTok being placed as third. So Instagram was 27%. YouTube was 23%. TikTok was 14% Facebook, 11% Snapchat, 10%. So again, we've been talking about short form video content, and I, we still think that that is king and we also have never advocated against YouTube, um, and Instagram. And so, um, especially Instagram with the, with the big push that they have right now towards reals. And so TikTok, uh, obviously is short form video content. And I think TikTok has pushed other platforms to kind of invest in that and make that more of a priority. And so how can you do that? What can you be pushing towards in that way? Um, but also, uh, Matt said this a couple weeks ago, too. Um, he said, once you reach someone with, with a TikTok video, like, yeah, that's great.

Nick Clason (09:48):
And all, uh, but then like, what do you, um, how do you sell them? Like, what's the next step? What's the conversion that takes place? Cause talk's a lot more just about discovery. So you discover something, but like even when you follow people on TikTok, it doesn't necessarily show them. Cuz I think majority of people spend their time on their four up page. And so you may gain a bunch of followers on TikTok, but are you showing up regularly in other people's algorithms and then thus right as a marketer, how then do you, uh, convert that into something that's actually meaningful into getting their information as a church? Um, if you're a marketer into getting their information so that you can sell them something that's a much, a much tougher sell, especially on something like TikTok. And so it's actually beneficial and advantageous to us that that Instagram and YouTube are still higher, that we can still invest in those platforms just as, as equally.

Nick Clason (10:43):
All right. The fourth myth here put a product in front of gen Z and they will buy it. So it says even though they gravitate towards TikTok style content doesn't mean they're receptive to just any form of short form video. Um, subsequently it says how, you know, how does gen Z prefer to discover new products on social media? Uh, 41% says through short form video. So again, that underscores what we've been saying, 36 through ads or sponsored content 32 through a feed post 29 through social media shops where purchase app happens through a story post, uh, 25% and then through an influencer 25%. All right. And so basically they there's, they just, just prefer to discover things maybe through TikTok reels or other short form videos. Um, but they don't want to imposed on them. Right. And so, uh, it actually, it goes on to say here in a world where we often feel are made to feel powerless, we strongly value a sense of autonomy and agency help us feel empowered through your actions.

Nick Clason (11:45):
So think about that as a church, um, we're pushing something, um, we're not selling anything, right. Um, but, but there is a level of decision that needs to be made specifically with regards to Jesus and with regards to the gospel. So how do we put the agency back in the hands of the people that we're trying to reach? Um, and a message, right. John 14, six, I am the way the truth and the life, the the is a very exclusive article there. Um, meaning that Jesus is putting and positioning himself as the person of the foremost authority. He is the way to the father. So how do we communicate that message in a culture? Um, and to a generation that they don't wanna be told what to believe. They don't wanna be told what to do. They wanna make the decision for themselves. They wanna be given the options.

Nick Clason (12:37):
And then they want to look around, see what their friends are thinking, um, or come to those decisions. So how do we as a church position and posture ourselves to not make it all about us, but instead to make it about the students that we are reaching. Okay. Um, and then the fifth myth here, um, word of mouth is a great way to reach gen Z, right? And I know that this one might seem contradictory. Um, but gen Z is feeling stressed outta control, doomed, like the weight of the world lies on their shoulders. And so with all this marketing that comes at them, um, we've turned, uh, what we wanna do is we wanna, um, everybody wants to put and push. Um, everybody wants to put and push an agenda, right? But like what's, what's most important, I think is still the human to human connection.

Nick Clason (13:25):
And obviously here we are, right. We're a, a podcast talking about the way to do ministry in a hybrid way, but there's still something about that human to human connection. And they still care about what other people say. Right. I use a lawn care company based on a recommendation. I use a plumber based on a recommendation. I feel better about things based on a recommendation than, um, a bunch of things on Google. And if I don't have that right, I then will go to Google or go to Yelp and look at reviews. Okay. So, uh, this graph here under this, this myth here, what channels have gen Z discovered new products on in the past three months? So 57% through social media, 46% through YouTube ad 42% by searching the internet 36 in retail stores, 30 by word of mouth, 23 through ads on film, TV, uh, streaming 19 through television, and then 19 through ads on music streaming like Pandora, SoundCloud, Spotify.

Nick Clason (14:19):
So, uh, the marketing, what this is saying, right? The marketing into gen Z spaces is that they feel comfortable on social media. Um, and that's the places that they're looking. And so, you know, even like I was saying, word of mouth, it's still, it's still value. It's still important. Um, what if your word of mouth can also underscore and come alongside of some of your online things? What if it can come alongside of some of the ads that, that they're seeing, cuz that's where they're, they're discovering the, the majority of what they, um, are, are buying and what they're purchasing.

Nick Clason (14:51):
So, Hey, listen guys, again, appreciate you for being here. Uh, sorry for the, the format. Sorry. Matt's not on. Um, but uh, just, I read the article. I found it super interesting and thought, man, there's a lot of like implications for the church. Um, we are, we're moving into a different age and you know, I think that the church is, I mean, I don't think I know that the church, uh, will prevail. It always has. It always will. Um, but the generations behind it are less and less, um, interested in just, uh, buying into it, hook, line and sinker. And so how do we as churches, position, posture, ourselves to make, to make the most effective impact in the lives of generations, these students, because before we know it, they're gonna be the ones that are in their twenties and then thirties and forties, and they're gonna be the ones in our churches.

Nick Clason (15:41):
And so we can't just keep doing things the way that we've always been doing it. Digital is incredibly important to them and the lifestyle that they're living. So how do we, as a church also find ourselves into their lives through digital means through marketing, through advertising now because we're trying to market Jesus, but because we're trying to, to reach people who are far from him and who are spending their time on these types of platforms and in these types of spaces and are becoming more and more comfortable with it. And just because they're comfortable with it and we may be less and less comfortable or even frankly uncomfortable with it, uh, doesn't mean we shouldn't, uh, force ourselves to, to figure it out and learn it and work through it. So thank you guys again for hanging out. Give us a like a subscribe. I mean, we would love to hear from you, um, from a, a review, just pull, open your purple podcast app on your iPhone and leave us a five star review, um, and a rating that would be incredible.

Nick Clason (16:43):
We are online at [hybridministry.xyz](hybridministry.xyz) and on Twitter at hybrid ministry. Look forward to connecting with you there. Hey, listen, like I said, I am in the middle of a little bit of a transition once things get settled a little bit, um, look for quite a bit more resources information, um, uh, you know, downloadables freebie stuff that we're gonna be given away, uh, really looking forward to growing and expanding the community and our reach here on this podcast. So again, thanks for hanging with us and we will talk to you next time.