web01.fireside.fm Fri, 01 May 2026 21:51:51 -0500 Fireside (https://fireside.fm) Hybrid Ministry - Episodes Tagged with “Ministry” https://www.hybridministry.xyz/tags/ministry Thu, 25 Jul 2024 04:00:00 -0500 Hybrid Ministry is complicated and hard. Or is it? How do pastors and youth pastors create a vibrant extension, not replacement, of what's already happening during their weekly church services? To cater in a digital ministry way to an online focused ministry audience. Reaching Millennials, Gen Z and even Gen Alpha is going to require us to rethink some of the ways we do church. Follow along on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@clasonnick en-us episodic Digital Discipleship made easy Nick Clason Hybrid Ministry is complicated and hard. Or is it? How do pastors and youth pastors create a vibrant extension, not replacement, of what's already happening during their weekly church services? To cater in a digital ministry way to an online focused ministry audience. Reaching Millennials, Gen Z and even Gen Alpha is going to require us to rethink some of the ways we do church. Follow along on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@clasonnick no Digital, Online Church, Hybrid Ministry, Church, Meta, Gen Z, Millennials, Digital Marketing, Church Marketing, Youth Ministry, Student Ministry, Nick Clason, Digital Ministry, Church Social Media, Youth Ministry Social Media, YouTube for Church, YouTube for Youth Ministry, TikTok for Churches, TikTok for Youth Ministry, Instagram for Churches, Instagram for Youth Ministry, Facebook for Church, Facebook for Youth Ministry, Cell Phone Usage at Church Nick Clason nickclason@hybridministry.xyz Episode 107: A Gen-Zer's Take on Hybrid Ministry https://www.hybridministry.xyz/107 6fb2ac60-3aa7-46cc-860e-6a63e7ebe83f Thu, 25 Jul 2024 04:00:00 -0500 Nick Clason 107 A Gen-Zer's Take on Hybrid Ministry full Nick Clason In this video, a Gen-Zer shares their perspective on the future of ministry, specifically focusing on the concept of hybrid ministry. Exploring how technology and traditional practices can blend to create a more inclusive and engaging worship experience, this insightful discussion provides a fresh take on how ministries can adapt to meet the needs of the digital age. If you're curious about how the younger generation views the evolution of ministry, this video is a must-watch! 25:21 no 🔥 [FREE] Hybrid Ministry Strategy Guide🔥 https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/free-hybrid-ministry-e-book 💥[CUSTOM] Hybrid Coaching💥 https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/coaching ====================================== DESCRIPTION In this video, a Gen-Zer shares their perspective on the future of ministry, specifically focusing on the concept of hybrid ministry. Exploring how technology and traditional practices can blend to create a more inclusive and engaging worship experience, this insightful discussion provides a fresh take on how ministries can adapt to meet the needs of the digital age. If you're curious about how the younger generation views the evolution of ministry, this video is a must-watch! ====================================== 📓SHOWNOTES //SHOWNOTES & TRANSCRIPTS http://www.hybridministry.xyz/107 //STOP POSTING ANNOUNCEMENTS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slB0Rmf_X0c&t=20s [THE PARKVIEW ONE] //HOW IT ALL STARTED https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0L-Dxhs7cI&t=232s 👉 STAY CONNECTED WITH NICK YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@clasonnick Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hybridministry/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@clasonnick Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HybridMinistry Website: https://www.hybridministry.xyz ====================================== 🆓 FREEBIES 🆓 📅 "The Full Hybrid Ministry Strategy" https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/free-hybrid-ministry-e-book 🖥️ "My 9 Favorite DYM Resources" https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/dym 📨 Full Proof Recruiting Email EMAIL: https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/recruiting-email 🍩 "FREE World's Greatest Donut Event Guide" GUIDE: https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/worlds-greatest-donut 😨 "Have I already Ruined my TikTok Account?" https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/ebook ====================================== 🛠️TOOLS Some of the below links are affilate links in which we do recieve a small commission based on your purchase or use of products VIDIQ https://vidiq.com/hybrid BEST DYM RESOURCES https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/dym OPUS.PRO FOR AI SHORTS & REELS https://www.opus.pro/?via=a5d361 //YOUTUBE STARTER KIT FOR UNDER $100 https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/youtubestarterkit AUTO POD https://autopod.lemonsqueezy.com?aff=MX7Vv TRY REV.COM FOR TRANSCRIBING https://rev.pxf.io/R5nDOa -------------- 🕰️TIMECODES 00:00 A Gen Zer's Take on Hybrid Ministry 01:30 What was your first impression of Hybrid Ministry? 03:01 Did it ever feel like we were trying too hard? 03:52 What has been your relationship with digital? 06:04 What did you think of all this hybrid? 07:08 After all this: Summarize your opinion 09:50 How Digital enhances in-person 12:56 What are the challenges of a Hybrid Space? 14:38 Does Editing Really Matter? 18:54 The Most Surprising Thing from the last year 20:42 The Final Word -------------- ✍️TRANSCRIPT 00;00;00;00 - 00;00;23;54 Nick Clason Hey, what is up, everybody? Welcome to the Hybrid Ministry show. This is a fun, actually interview episode. So for those of you who have been watching following along over the last year or so, I've mentioned my resident, his name is Caleb. now a nickname. Call him flywheel. because he was in his residence, group Learning project, and he needed to read, from good to great. 00;00;23;54 - 00;00;42;15 Nick Clason And he knew to read the flywheel chapter. And so I called him flywheel. and he now calls me Thunder Dog because I'm a Oklahoma City Thunder fan. but anyway, he's been with us for a year now, and I actually, I wanted to get his take, today, we actually said goodbye to him. we had, like, a breakfast at our house with him, my family. 00;00;42;20 - 00;00;56;20 Nick Clason and so he's heading back home, but I want to get his take on what it was like, to work in a hybrid ministry environment. Like, you know, as a resident, you really get a lot of choices on that. And so, since he didn't get a lot of choices, I want to be like, hey, what do you think? 00;00;56;32 - 00;01;16;03 Nick Clason What are you going to keep? What are you going to get go away from? and so I'm excited to have you kind of sit in on this interview, just conversation informal, him and I and just kind of his experience in this sort of hybrid space. So. Hope you enjoy. if this is helpful to you or anyone else that you might think, give it a like, give it a share. 00;01;16;18 - 00;01;21;23 Nick Clason give it a subscribe. All those things are incredibly helpful to us. So without any further ado, the exclusive 00;01;21;23 - 00;01;24;25 Nick Clason one and only Flywheel Caleb Maeda interview. 00;01;26;03 - 00;01;48;33 Nick Clason Well, I'm here with Flywheel Maeda. Caleb Maeda Hey. so I don't know, like, I don't know. You came into my world, and I told you that hybrid ministry, digital ministry, all that stuff mattered. so. So take us back. 00;01;48;35 - 00;01;53;40 Nick Clason Take me back to when you, like, started with me at, like back in Chicago. Yeah. Well, 00;01;53;40 - 00;01;57;55 Caleb Maeda yeah. So back in Chicago is like my first church job. Like in general. 00;01;58;50 - 00;02;11;09 Caleb Maeda so I wasn't really sure how anything worked. So I think that really started, like, my mind set on, like, hybrid ministry because, like, I didn't have any previous, like, things I was holding on to, like, I had. youth group that I grew up in, but it was pretty different. And also coming out of like the pandemic. yeah. Like it like made sense. And then when I saw it working and like I saw because like the model that you guys used with like the connect groups that like, met in the homes and then watched it and like, interact with it. I thought that was like super cool. And so then also getting to like work on that show and like helped produce a little bit and like run some of this stuff like I like immediately saw the value and also like, like just being a younger person. Like I grew up watching YouTube like like the people that I like, loved growing up or like YouTubers and so like the value of that platform with this generation. I think I also kind of related to and so like from the get go, I was kind of brought in, I was like, yeah, this is legit, I agree. I mean. 00;02;58;06 - 00;03;03;59 Nick Clason Did you ever, did you ever feel like, oh, these guys are trying to be YouTubers and they're old? 00;03;08;22 - 00;03;23;42 Caleb Maeda No, because I think at the time it was honestly like the stuff that I was working on at Parkview is like the search for Chuck the duck that summer. And so, like, it was not stupid enough, but it was it was stupid enough that it was like these guys, like, they're clearly not doing this for clout. Like, I don't know any 30 year old man who's like, you know, it'd be really cool searching for a fake rubber duck for an entire summer, you know? And so I never I never got that kind of vibe just because of the nature of what we were doing. 00;03;35;15 - 00;03;42;54 Nick Clason Yeah. Okay, so then you, after your time with us in Chicago, you go and you work at your home church for a little bit, right? And just interning? Yeah, mostly in the arena of worship. 00;03;50;12 - 00;04;05;10 Caleb Maeda No, I was is youth for the first school year, and then it was worship the second school year. What was their relationship with digital social media hybrid? I mean, so they're they're your typical like evangelical covenant, like multi-site church. So they're like they're with it, but they're not sure 00;04;05;19 - 00;04;24;37 Nick Clason I wonder how many evangelical covenant multi-site churches or like you say, typical. 00;04;24;12 - 00;04;38;10 Caleb Maeda I actually don't know. It's a thing in Minnesota, I guess, from where I grew up. But, so they do have a value of social media, but they're not quite as consistent like they don't have, I don't think. And granted, when I was there, their social media platform was we didn't have students over Christmas break. So like, let's make something fun. And like that was it other than like announcements for events and stuff. Yeah. And now these days it's a little bit more like, you know, the trends where like, you see a guy, like, fall off a stretcher and then it's someone rolling and say, like, you should get to like, you know, those classes. 00;04;38;13 - 00;04;54;21 Nick Clason I think you need only do some of this. 00;04;38;13 - 00;04;54;21 Caleb Maeda I saw one the other day. We should do. but so like, they've started doing some more of that stuff in the past year or so. And so I think it's, it's done an uptick, but it's not as fleshed out as, like what we're doing here of like two posts a day, you know, that kind of, yeah. 00;04;54;26 - 00;05;18;11 Caleb Maeda And they don't like a good day. Yeah. And they don't they don't do, like, fun content, like drafts or like things like that. The students other than, like pictures for, like recaps of events and stuff, they're not super on the pages. It's mostly like announcement based stuff. Yeah, yeah. Which like is a is a pretty like standard operating procedure for like churches and social media. 00;05;18;12 - 00;05;24;09 Nick Clason Yeah. have a whole video linked right here about, you should also be posting announcements. 00;05;24;09 - 00;05;33;40 Caleb Maeda You Should link to Parkview one to like, I only saw one at a time. 00;05;24;09 - 00;05;33;40 Nick Clason I can only do one. We have it. We did it. We did. 00;05;33;40 - 00;05;36;36 Caleb Maeda Really? Yeah. I didn't know that. 00;05;33;40 - 00;05;36;36 Nick Clason I know you didn't. That's why you link to, like, three times in your last teaching video. 00;05;36;40 - 00;05;51;29 Nick Clason Don't worry about this link to it here. This link I thought you could. You get one. You get one card per video. There you go. I didn't know that YouTube. I didn't know that one. I'm getting exposed right now. I thought I'd never mind. It's like we can talk about that later, but, Okay, so then 00;05;51;29 - 00;05;55;43 Nick Clason then you come here and we are. 00;05;55;47 - 00;05;57;55 Nick Clason What we're doing is very different. 00;05;57;55 - 00;06;09;14 Nick Clason the Parkview one, by the way. I'll link it down in the description. You can watch it. It's like the 100th episode. 100th episode. How it all started. It's pretty pog. Yeah, I think it was a good one. It was a good one. but anyway, 00;06;09;14 - 00;06;12;23 Nick Clason you come down here and it's different. 00;06;12;28 - 00;06;26;51 Nick Clason Put it, put aside your people pleasing nature. Like, just give me the raw, unfiltered, like, what do you think? 00;06;26;51 - 00;06;48;29 Caleb Maeda I mean, again, like, I, I agreed with what we were doing because I think of my experience at Parkview. I think for me, once we started doing or like trying to make students on the page more of a priority, that was kind of the shift that I was more on board with just because like, yeah, like the the one I struggled with the most were those like the no, it or not dancing TikToks that we did, I freaking I like I'm not a dancer, so I hated them, but like, I hated them cause I 00;06;48;29 - 00;07;14;43 Nick Clason was not a dancer. Not for like strategy reasons. but once we started getting students on the page, I think that was where I started feeling like, yeah, we're doing something that, like, is cool. so yeah, yeah, that was kind of my first. So, you are heading, like off on your own at some point. At some point we don't know what's next. 00;07;14;48 - 00;07;37;26 Nick Clason Yeah. But like, what are your thoughts on, like. All right, I'm about to be my own youth pastor, and I just did a, summer internship and then a full year long residency, with, church and youth pastors who are fully bought into, like, digital, like. Yeah. First of all, summarize your opinion 00;07;37;26 - 00;07;40;47 Nick Clason like, you just you gave a lot of different like examples of like summarize like, yeah. 00;07;40;51 - 00;07;44;10 Nick Clason Do you think it's like worth it valuable. 00;07;44;10 - 00;07;50;41 Nick Clason And then like how would you yeah. How would you tell people like here's how it's working on 00;07;50;41 - 00;07;57;25 Nick Clason like the inside of it because like, you know, if anyone follows me or listen to my stuff like they hear me reference it, talk about what we do. 00;07;57;25 - 00;08;00;45 Nick Clason But like, you got to see, like, firsthand and like, just be honest. 00;08;00;45 - 00;08;05;52 Nick Clason Like, are you like, I don't know, I don't know if it's working or not. Yeah. I mean, I think, I think the 00;08;05;52 - 00;08;25;31 Caleb Maeda things that have been working the most has been getting students involved on the page, not even in terms of like on the page traction as much as like in person traction, because I think I think like with the social challenge that we did with the Hot Wings thing that we did like, it was a lot of kids saying like, hey, how can I be on screen? 00;08;25;41 - 00;08;38;03 Caleb Maeda You know, this is what it was. It was how can I what can I do? Yeah. And like, well, that shouldn't be your only motivation to like, do these things. I think it lended itself great to increasing like the desire to like, serve 00;08;38;03 - 00;08;56;03 Caleb Maeda or like well and like there, like you said, like what's normal to them. Yeah. Like and the option to like be on social media or be on YouTube is like a little bit, well, because like, I remember growing up and like seeing all my favorite YouTubers and thinking like, man, I wish I could do that, but I don't know how to do this. 00;08;56;03 - 00;09;24;01 Caleb Maeda I don't know how to do this. And so I think it's a really great way for students to even live that little piece of them who, like, they don't know how to set up a studio. They don't know what lights are. Yeah, I don't know what that is. that's Jake. Yeah it is. Jake. Shout out to Jake I love you, but, like they it's it's an experience for them to get to like, live that out a little bit and then also do it in like a safe context where like, it's like, I don't know, it's safe for the family content. 00;09;24;01 - 00;09;39;47 Caleb Maeda Like I think also just like the opportunity, the whole family. Yeah. It is like the opportunity to just like replace one video, I think in a kids feed is like a win in my opinion, because of just like the nature of social media, you know, like we can get into the whole of like comparing our lives and stuff. 00;09;39;49 - 00;09;48;01 Caleb Maeda Yeah. Or like we can watch stupid people draft like, pizza toppings and pick Palios number one. Yeah. You know, was the decision ever I agree, 00;09;48;01 - 00;10;03;43 Nick Clason okay. So off you go. Yeah. What's your what's your well what's your like as of today. Date of recording all that stuff like. Yeah. What do you think your future relationship with like digital and hybrid is going to I obviously yeah. 00;10;03;45 - 00;10;23;16 Nick Clason You you don't know where you're headed like I guess pie in the sky. Like what would be the hope. The hope would be to recreate this just in the north? yeah. Like I said, like, I, I think that what we're doing is working. I think, again, like, I don't think it's as much about the followers on the page. 00;10;23;16 - 00;10;44;22 Nick Clason It's more about what we're seeing in the room, you know, like, even like just seeing some of the kids drafting against each other and like, the relationships that are getting built, like, even within that, like you're getting pairs of, like two students who, like, wouldn't typically talk to each other and now they're being forced to like, draft something and like, communicate and like that can make them walk away with some form of connection. 00;10;44;27 - 00;11;09;27 Caleb Maeda And so I think those are the things that I like about what we're doing. and so I would definitely want to, to create something like that. That's like students on the page driven. Yeah. where it's all about like it's a tool to use that to build community at our, at our group. Yeah. I mean, I think like the way that I've laid out because like, what you're talking about, even two is like, your strategy is like coming at it from like a different even angle. 00;11;09;27 - 00;11;37;57 Nick Clason Yeah. So like my strategy is like, do fun and silly and stupid content to like, just get on people's feeds and get their attention. Yeah. Maybe you guys have a follow, maybe like start showing up more and more in their algorithm. Yeah. Then sprinkle in teaching content things that like are meaningful and spiritual and whatever, but then have that push them then further down the funnel to like our long form video on YouTube, which then always has like a next step. Caleb Maeda00;11;55;49 Nick Clason Yeah. Well and then like also being able to use the YouTube kind of like we did literally like on Sunday where we took the QR code to the baptism series and like that's how we're pushing kids to baptism now as they can go through that class. Like I think having that as also like a resource page on top of the other benefits has been really cool. 00;11;55;54 - 00;12;32;18 Nick Clason Yeah. But it's like, I guess what's interesting is like how you're saying, like, you see the value of digital and how it plays in the room even, you know, and like, yeah, that's a different benefit than I often even talk about. Yeah. On here. Right. Like I'm always just saying like online to like walk down the funnel, but like you're saying like even if that doesn't happen, like our current pool of students that exist, like we see them interacting and engaging with us because like, yeah, I think a lot of times digital is a process for like how to reach outsiders. 00;12;32;23 - 00;12;53;42 Caleb Maeda And you're seeing it as like, yeah, but also it can yeah, increase the experience for insiders. Yeah for sure. And like also like I mean it's also a great like invite way because you can be like, hey, the friend from school that doesn't typically go to church. When I come to church to try to be in a YouTube video, like that's also like a it's like it's multifaceted. 00;12;53;42 - 00;13;13;01 Caleb Maeda You can use it for a lot of different things. Yeah, yeah. What are some of the or have been some of the challenges of being on the or in the hybrid culture, like what has been asked of you? That has been I think it's just like the time it takes to edit videos takes away from other things that you can do. 00;13;13;05 - 00;13;39;12 Caleb Maeda and like, like obviously having a team like once we got, you know, the interns kind of cooking on drafts and stuff that lighten the load. But I felt like the first half of my residency, I would come to who's who's. Yeah. So undrafted. But yeah, but I feel like my first chunk of my residency was I would show up and I would edit and like, that was what I did, which like, good because now I can edit and like it's a skill that I can market in the future for non-church related products hiring. 00;13;39;21 - 00;14;02;51 Caleb Maeda But yeah, shout out, please help me. but so I think that phone number down in the appreciate it. Yeah, yeah. 13 of our viewers I'm poor please. My Venmo is somewhere. Yeah, yeah. But, I think that that was tough for me for a little bit just because also, like, I'm just a relationally driven person. And so like the moments like even in the office that like, Drive Me are like the conversations that I'm having with people. 00;14;02;51 - 00;14;18;38 Caleb Maeda Yeah. And so I think that was a struggle or at least an adjustment period. But also it was interesting because I went to college for music, but since it was a liberal arts school, I took a couple film classes and I like Learn Premiere in those classes already and so on. I came down here and you're like, yeah, we're going to be editing in premiere. 00;14;18;38 - 00;14;42;48 Caleb Maeda I was like, I know ripple, delete. I can kind of do that. And so teach people. It was a little bit of like a mixed bag of like adjustment, but also familiarity at the same time. and also just kind of like reprioritizing my schedule to see, like where things fit 00;14;18;38 - 00;14;42;48 Nick Clason does, does editing matter in your opinion? 00;14;42;53 - 00;15;07;12 Caleb Maeda yeah, I think it does. I think. Actually, I don't I'm not sure. I think it does. I think in, in terms of, like grabbing attention, like the fastest way to make your content more appealing without adjusting your content is just in the editing. Yeah, but you can you can make a highlight reel of, like, any NBA player and make them look good. 00;15;07;12 - 00;15;39;08 00;14;18;38 - 00;14;42;48 Caleb Maeda Same with like a YouTube video. Like if you've done rumors of Patrick Williams of Thunder, I really I was watching like a highlight video. I was like, this guy is as good as. Yeah. And so like, I think I think from like, like the, the online perspective of it and also like engagement in the room. Like I think back to when I was a student, if you showed me this like super yellow grainy video with like the white noise in the background, that's like almost as loud as this being, like, I would disengage almost immediately just because like, oh, this is an old video, I don't care. 00;15;39;12 - 00;15;54;56 Caleb Maeda And so I think that there's that kind of like the production value does serve a purpose, but I think that I think we can get in the weeds a little bit like for our person just because like where the yeah, where the people who are like are doing the editing. So we're like, I hate that I did this and no one would even notice. 00;15;55;09 - 00;16;10;52 Nick Clason Well, what we're talking like yesterday on stage, like the video on the, photo back to. Yeah. Like you and I could see the, like. Yeah. That the edge was a little bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. On screen. But yeah, I don't know. But nobody noticed that before I pointed it out, I don't know, I wasn't paying. Oh not right. 00;16;10;55 - 00;16;27;02 Caleb Maeda Probably not because you didn't spend very much time on that. Yeah at all. But then like I said look you noticed that. Then there's the little thing. And like, that's just part of, I think, being an artist because like, you're never going to be perfect at your craft and like, filmmaking and editing is like an art form. Yeah. 00;16;27;06 - 00;16;43;45 Caleb Maeda Not to get all weird about it, but like, it is. And so, I think also just like not getting caught up in that, I think is important because there is a level of production value that is valuable. But I think, you know, any time we get so caught up in the production value that we're not thinking about the content, I think that's where we're going to fall into things. 00;16;43;45 - 00;17;01;32 Caleb Maeda So at the end of the day, we should be delivering good content to our kids because that's what we're here for. Yeah, I agree, but reach out to either of us if you need anything. Yeah, please. Haha. Well, aim for real. Like how much? And our lives changing. Yeah, that's also true dude. Also like starry I'm going to talk about stars. 00;17;01;36 - 00;17;18;05 Caleb Maeda Shout out to starry. I freaking love this dude and I've never even talked to him. I remember I started when I was doing the Hot Wings video. I started talking to him just like before the videos, just like, hey man, houses are gone. I love you bro. Yeah. And like, like just the ideas you need to build that connection with a dude in India is really cool. 00;17;18;05 - 00;17;31;13 Caleb Maeda Yeah. And like, you would tell me some of the things that he would say back in like, I don't know, it was just really cool to like, build that with a dude I've never actually spoken to. And the only reason that happened was because we got to a point where, like, we need someone to help us edit and we found a dude on Fiverr. 00;17;31;13 - 00;18;02;09 Nick Clason Yeah, yeah, yeah, don't don't tell Fiverr that we don't. I mean, to them we didn't we met him through the Google. We so so yeah. interesting. there's a lot, a lot more ministry opportunities, I think, from this than I thought there would be going into it because I thought, I thought that like, like on paper, it sounds like the ministry we're doing is we're doing it for online kids to get connected to church, to hopefully eventually come and then for our kids to have, like, content. 00;18;02;09 - 00;18;23;03 Caleb Maeda Right. But then there's like the editor who's like discovering Christianity for the first time and like asking questions and stuff. There's like the community that's being built on, like the key kids who are like trying to do the drafts, like all of that extra stuff is stuff that I didn't personally like, think about. And then when I started seeing it like those ended up being the reasons that like, drove me to keep going rather than just the content. 00;18;23;08 - 00;18;46;56 Nick Clason So what do you what do you think it will look like for you in the future, like because, you know, keeping going, whatever. Like you're quasi being forced to because you're like working and like this is what we're telling you, like, hey, you have to do. But like, yeah, soon you're going to be your own youth pastor working somewhere or for someone or whatever. 00;18;46;56 - 00;19;08;21 Caleb Maeda Like what? What things do you see yourself? Just like taking most of all of it, honestly, like the the short form, I think that was the other thing. When I came in, I wasn't as big on short form videos as I was the long form videos, just because when I grew up watching YouTube, YouTube was long form videos. 00;19;08;25 - 00;19;28;49 Caleb Maeda and so taking that and I just look at our, our Instagram reels, it's like, I know, dude, it's friggin nuts. But, yeah. And so I think I'll take a lot of that stuff, especially because, like, it's pretty easy to get a lot of content, like on a Wednesday night, just like sit down with ten kids and you can get like 5 or 6, you know. 00;19;28;54 - 00;20;02;03 Caleb Maeda And so I think that and I also I think the, the teaching videos stuff, because the there have been a couple churches that I've been looking at, and like their social media is good, but like they just clip their live preachings, which I think is awesome and great and like, that's better than nothing. But I also think that there's something about, the way that we change it for In the Room versus the, the video that I think just makes the video work a little better because we're specifically crafting that part of our message for that medium. 00;20;02;08 - 00;20;31;21 Caleb Maeda and so I think more work, it's more work, but I think that the payoff is great because also then, like, there's not like the room awkwardness, like there's not the like, con response. And then that frees us up for in the room to do things like table talk and all of that stuff. and also like, just like having your message written down in that form for the long form videos, helps you to say things that I think sometimes, like, I will drop in the room like there's if there's a little fun tidbit that, like, just isn't going to fit in the room, but I really liked it. 00;20;31;21 - 00;20;52;40 Caleb Maeda Like, I have to say it in the the long form YouTube video. So I think that there's also that kind of added value. But anything else I can think of, probably like, honestly, I probably won't be on the student ministry page as much as I was at the beginning of this. But like, I'm trying to figure out how what does it look like to start this? 00;20;52;40 - 00;21;16;41 Caleb Maeda Because like I can say on paper, I want all kids to be doing all the drafts all the time. Like if the kids are involved in like, how am I that, you know. Yeah. And so and sometimes it's helpful for them to like see examples. Yeah. And so it's kind of that like that I'm going to try to figure out how to balance that line of like setting the tone but like making sure it's, it's kid first. 00;21;16;46 - 00;21;34;25 Caleb Maeda and then also like I think finding ways to like do like not only the teaching videos, but like the baptism videos, like courses like that. I think I would also want to pull just because like, I think that that's a great resource page for them that we can pull from. For anytime a kid has questions about baptisms, you can throw them to that. 00;21;34;30 - 00;21;53;32 Nick Clason yeah. Yeah. And like, you know, you can also expand that. Like, you could even make the workshops that we've been doing into little video series, like, I don't know if there's like a lot of stuff that you can do with playlists and like with. Yeah, having the idea of it being like a course like. Yeah. And like you and I have talked about this a lot, but I think like content for content delivery. 00;21;53;32 - 00;22;09;26 Caleb Maeda I think YouTube is a better way than live preaching just because like and like again, you've talked about this all the time, but like, I don't know anybody whose primary like learning style is sit down and listen to a lecture for 30 minutes even. You can have the best graphics as you want, like you can have great table talks. 00;22;09;26 - 00;22;27;14 Caleb Maeda Like I'm not going to pull as much from that as I will from like a ten minute YouTube video with like graphics and like, I don't know, there's just something about the way our brains are wired with our shorter attention spans. I think YouTube is a great medium medium for content delivery in a way that like, we're not getting as much in the room. 00;22;27;16 - 00;22;50;28 Nick Clason Yeah, I think these days. Yeah. And I mean the again, sky's the limit. Creativity like your, your creativity or lack of creativity is you're like lid on it. So like if you have like a system like we do now where it's like you fill all your messages and everything, like you know, you can at any time play the video that, yeah, the live teaching doesn't work. 00;22;50;33 - 00;23;12;53 Nick Clason You can play the clips or like, yeah, like we're going to be gone. We were gone for like a conference earlier this year so we could just throw the video up there. Well in like next week we're gone for camp. Yeah on a Sunday. And so your video is broken up into four parts. Yeah. Questions thrown in like so that I can literally hand it off to any volunteer pastor that's back here on staff. 00;23;12;53 - 00;23;34;58 Caleb Maeda And they can do it pretty seamlessly. Like, yeah, like, yeah, the sky. And that's the thing, if you say learning happens better in like a medium like that, like almost makes you wonder and ask yourself like, how do I, how do I create a hybrid moment between the two? Like I live in the room and like a video. 00;23;35;02 - 00;24;08;05 Caleb Maeda Yeah. Where like, intersects and is like used strategically for, like a students most optimal way of learning. Yeah. So yeah, I don't know, I think it's, I think it's something that like we haven't tapped into more from like tradition and anything. And I think that school is starting to go this way a little bit like you've heard of like the flipped classroom where they like get a video and then they watch the video at home, and then they do their homework in the classroom, and then they, like, talk to the teacher and work it out in the classroom. 00;24;08;05 - 00;24;38;27 Caleb Maeda But all of the teaching is done at home through videos. Yeah. And so I think that, like, we're starting to see that shift in like the school realm. And so I think that church should be the next step. just because I think they like I've, we've been saying like, I think it's a much more effective way to deliver content to this generation, because also, like when I think about it, like I can list, you know, a couple topics from like sermons that I've listened to, but like fallout YouTube videos right now that I've been watching, like, I can pull a lot more purely from just like the amount that I can consume in a 00;24;38;27 - 00;25;00;26 Caleb Maeda sitting. Yeah. You know, like I can consume 30 minutes. Yeah, I can consume 30 minutes of YouTube content more effectively than in the room for, you know, all of those reasons. Yeah. Yeah. So all right well that's it man POG signing out. Score Vikings. Thanks for hanging some video. I'll probably be here on the screen. Yeah. Click it watch it. 00;25;00;26 - 00;25;04;35 Nick Clason Do the thing. See you next time. Love you stay hybrid. Yeah. Nice. 00;25;05;36 - 00;25;08;28 Nick Clason I gotta pee. Okay, 00;25;09;49 - 00;25;13;02 Caleb Maeda Oh. 00;25;13;24 - 00;25;18;35 Nick Clason I can't wait to hear that. Nice. Hybrid Ministry, Nick Clason, Youth Ministry Strategy in 2024, Social media Ministry, Ministry Innovation, Ministry Trends, Church Innovation, Church Trends, Future, Young Adults, Ministry Future, Christianity, Religious Youth., Faith, Spiritual, Religion, Church Youth, Ministry, Church, Youth, Generation Z, Generation, Church Future, Gen-Z 🔥 [FREE] Hybrid Ministry Strategy Guide🔥

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DESCRIPTION
In this video, a Gen-Zer shares their perspective on the future of ministry, specifically focusing on the concept of hybrid ministry. Exploring how technology and traditional practices can blend to create a more inclusive and engaging worship experience, this insightful discussion provides a fresh take on how ministries can adapt to meet the needs of the digital age. If you're curious about how the younger generation views the evolution of ministry, this video is a must-watch!

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🕰️TIMECODES
00:00 A Gen Zer's Take on Hybrid Ministry
01:30 What was your first impression of Hybrid Ministry?
03:01 Did it ever feel like we were trying too hard?
03:52 What has been your relationship with digital?
06:04 What did you think of all this hybrid?
07:08 After all this: Summarize your opinion
09:50 How Digital enhances in-person
12:56 What are the challenges of a Hybrid Space?
14:38 Does Editing Really Matter?
18:54 The Most Surprising Thing from the last year
20:42 The Final Word
--------------
✍️TRANSCRIPT

00;00;00;00 - 00;00;23;54
Nick Clason
Hey, what is up, everybody? Welcome to the Hybrid Ministry show. This is a fun, actually interview episode. So for those of you who have been watching following along over the last year or so, I've mentioned my resident, his name is Caleb. now a nickname. Call him flywheel. because he was in his residence, group Learning project, and he needed to read, from good to great.

00;00;23;54 - 00;00;42;15
Nick Clason
And he knew to read the flywheel chapter. And so I called him flywheel. and he now calls me Thunder Dog because I'm a Oklahoma City Thunder fan. but anyway, he's been with us for a year now, and I actually, I wanted to get his take, today, we actually said goodbye to him. we had, like, a breakfast at our house with him, my family.

00;00;42;20 - 00;00;56;20
Nick Clason
and so he's heading back home, but I want to get his take on what it was like, to work in a hybrid ministry environment. Like, you know, as a resident, you really get a lot of choices on that. And so, since he didn't get a lot of choices, I want to be like, hey, what do you think?

00;00;56;32 - 00;01;16;03
Nick Clason
What are you going to keep? What are you going to get go away from? and so I'm excited to have you kind of sit in on this interview, just conversation informal, him and I and just kind of his experience in this sort of hybrid space. So. Hope you enjoy. if this is helpful to you or anyone else that you might think, give it a like, give it a share.

00;01;16;18 - 00;01;21;23
Nick Clason
give it a subscribe. All those things are incredibly helpful to us. So without any further ado, the exclusive

00;01;21;23 - 00;01;24;25
Nick Clason
one and only Flywheel Caleb Maeda interview.

00;01;26;03 - 00;01;48;33
Nick Clason
Well, I'm here with Flywheel Maeda.

Caleb Maeda
Hey.

so I don't know, like, I don't know. You came into my world, and I told you that hybrid ministry, digital ministry, all that stuff mattered. so. So take us back.

00;01;48;35 - 00;01;53;40
Nick Clason
Take me back to when you, like, started with me at, like back in Chicago. Yeah. Well,

00;01;53;40 - 00;01;57;55
Caleb Maeda
yeah. So back in Chicago is like my first church job. Like in general.

00;01;58;50 - 00;02;11;09
Caleb Maeda
so I wasn't really sure how anything worked. So I think that really started, like, my mind set on, like, hybrid ministry because, like, I didn't have any previous, like, things I was holding on to, like, I had. youth group that I grew up in, but it was pretty different. And also coming out of like the pandemic. yeah. Like it like made sense. And then when I saw it working and like I saw because like the model that you guys used with like the connect groups that like, met in the homes and then watched it and like, interact with it. I thought that was like super cool. And so then also getting to like work on that show and like helped produce a little bit and like run some of this stuff like I like immediately saw the value and also like, like just being a younger person. Like I grew up watching YouTube like like the people that I like, loved growing up or like YouTubers and so like the value of that platform with this generation. I think I also kind of related to and so like from the get go, I was kind of brought in, I was like, yeah, this is legit, I agree. I mean.

00;02;58;06 - 00;03;03;59
Nick Clason
Did you ever, did you ever feel like, oh, these guys are trying to be YouTubers and they're old?

00;03;08;22 - 00;03;23;42
Caleb Maeda
No, because I think at the time it was honestly like the stuff that I was working on at Parkview is like the search for Chuck the duck that summer. And so, like, it was not stupid enough, but it was it was stupid enough that it was like these guys, like, they're clearly not doing this for clout. Like, I don't know any 30 year old man who's like, you know, it'd be really cool searching for a fake rubber duck for an entire summer, you know? And so I never I never got that kind of vibe just because of the nature of what we were doing.

00;03;35;15 - 00;03;42;54
Nick Clason
Yeah. Okay, so then you, after your time with us in Chicago, you go and you work at your home church for a little bit, right? And just interning? Yeah, mostly in the arena of worship.

00;03;50;12 - 00;04;05;10
Caleb Maeda
No, I was is youth for the first school year, and then it was worship the second school year. What was their relationship with digital social media hybrid? I mean, so they're they're your typical like evangelical covenant, like multi-site church. So they're like they're with it, but they're not sure

00;04;05;19 - 00;04;24;37
Nick Clason
I wonder how many evangelical covenant multi-site churches or like you say, typical.

00;04;24;12 - 00;04;38;10
Caleb Maeda
I actually don't know. It's a thing in Minnesota, I guess, from where I grew up. But, so they do have a value of social media, but they're not quite as consistent like they don't have, I don't think. And granted, when I was there, their social media platform was we didn't have students over Christmas break. So like, let's make something fun. And like that was it other than like announcements for events and stuff. Yeah. And now these days it's a little bit more like, you know, the trends where like, you see a guy, like, fall off a stretcher and then it's someone rolling and say, like, you should get to like, you know, those classes.

00;04;38;13 - 00;04;54;21
Nick Clason
I think you need only do some of this.

00;04;38;13 - 00;04;54;21
Caleb Maeda
I saw one the other day. We should do. but so like, they've started doing some more of that stuff in the past year or so. And so I think it's, it's done an uptick, but it's not as fleshed out as, like what we're doing here of like two posts a day, you know, that kind of, yeah.

00;04;54;26 - 00;05;18;11
Caleb Maeda
And they don't like a good day. Yeah. And they don't they don't do, like, fun content, like drafts or like things like that. The students other than, like pictures for, like recaps of events and stuff, they're not super on the pages. It's mostly like announcement based stuff. Yeah, yeah. Which like is a is a pretty like standard operating procedure for like churches and social media.

00;05;18;12 - 00;05;24;09
Nick Clason
Yeah. have a whole video linked right here about, you should also be posting announcements.

00;05;24;09 - 00;05;33;40
Caleb Maeda
You Should link to Parkview one to like, I only saw one at a time.

00;05;24;09 - 00;05;33;40
Nick Clason
I can only do one. We have it. We did it. We did.

00;05;33;40 - 00;05;36;36
Caleb Maeda
Really? Yeah. I didn't know that.

00;05;33;40 - 00;05;36;36
Nick Clason
I know you didn't. That's why you link to, like, three times in your last teaching video.

00;05;36;40 - 00;05;51;29
Nick Clason
Don't worry about this link to it here. This link I thought you could. You get one. You get one card per video. There you go. I didn't know that YouTube. I didn't know that one. I'm getting exposed right now. I thought I'd never mind. It's like we can talk about that later, but, Okay, so then

00;05;51;29 - 00;05;55;43
Nick Clason
then you come here and we are.

00;05;55;47 - 00;05;57;55
Nick Clason
What we're doing is very different.

00;05;57;55 - 00;06;09;14
Nick Clason
the Parkview one, by the way. I'll link it down in the description. You can watch it. It's like the 100th episode. 100th episode. How it all started. It's pretty pog. Yeah, I think it was a good one. It was a good one. but anyway,

00;06;09;14 - 00;06;12;23
Nick Clason
you come down here and it's different.

00;06;12;28 - 00;06;26;51
Nick Clason
Put it, put aside your people pleasing nature. Like, just give me the raw, unfiltered, like, what do you think?

00;06;26;51 - 00;06;48;29
Caleb Maeda
I mean, again, like, I, I agreed with what we were doing because I think of my experience at Parkview. I think for me, once we started doing or like trying to make students on the page more of a priority, that was kind of the shift that I was more on board with just because like, yeah, like the the one I struggled with the most were those like the no, it or not dancing TikToks that we did, I freaking I like I'm not a dancer, so I hated them, but like, I hated them cause I

00;06;48;29 - 00;07;14;43
Nick Clason
was not a dancer. Not for like strategy reasons. but once we started getting students on the page, I think that was where I started feeling like, yeah, we're doing something that, like, is cool. so yeah, yeah, that was kind of my first. So, you are heading, like off on your own at some point. At some point we don't know what's next.

00;07;14;48 - 00;07;37;26
Nick Clason
Yeah. But like, what are your thoughts on, like. All right, I'm about to be my own youth pastor, and I just did a, summer internship and then a full year long residency, with, church and youth pastors who are fully bought into, like, digital, like. Yeah. First of all, summarize your opinion

00;07;37;26 - 00;07;40;47
Nick Clason
like, you just you gave a lot of different like examples of like summarize like, yeah.

00;07;40;51 - 00;07;44;10
Nick Clason
Do you think it's like worth it valuable.

00;07;44;10 - 00;07;50;41
Nick Clason
And then like how would you yeah. How would you tell people like here's how it's working on

00;07;50;41 - 00;07;57;25
Nick Clason
like the inside of it because like, you know, if anyone follows me or listen to my stuff like they hear me reference it, talk about what we do.

00;07;57;25 - 00;08;00;45
Nick Clason
But like, you got to see, like, firsthand and like, just be honest.

00;08;00;45 - 00;08;05;52
Nick Clason
Like, are you like, I don't know, I don't know if it's working or not. Yeah. I mean, I think, I think the

00;08;05;52 - 00;08;25;31
Caleb Maeda
things that have been working the most has been getting students involved on the page, not even in terms of like on the page traction as much as like in person traction, because I think I think like with the social challenge that we did with the Hot Wings thing that we did like, it was a lot of kids saying like, hey, how can I be on screen?

00;08;25;41 - 00;08;38;03
Caleb Maeda
You know, this is what it was. It was how can I what can I do? Yeah. And like, well, that shouldn't be your only motivation to like, do these things. I think it lended itself great to increasing like the desire to like, serve

00;08;38;03 - 00;08;56;03
Caleb Maeda
or like well and like there, like you said, like what's normal to them. Yeah. Like and the option to like be on social media or be on YouTube is like a little bit, well, because like, I remember growing up and like seeing all my favorite YouTubers and thinking like, man, I wish I could do that, but I don't know how to do this.

00;08;56;03 - 00;09;24;01
Caleb Maeda
I don't know how to do this. And so I think it's a really great way for students to even live that little piece of them who, like, they don't know how to set up a studio. They don't know what lights are. Yeah, I don't know what that is. that's Jake. Yeah it is. Jake. Shout out to Jake I love you, but, like they it's it's an experience for them to get to like, live that out a little bit and then also do it in like a safe context where like, it's like, I don't know, it's safe for the family content.

00;09;24;01 - 00;09;39;47
Caleb Maeda
Like I think also just like the opportunity, the whole family. Yeah. It is like the opportunity to just like replace one video, I think in a kids feed is like a win in my opinion, because of just like the nature of social media, you know, like we can get into the whole of like comparing our lives and stuff.

00;09;39;49 - 00;09;48;01
Caleb Maeda
Yeah. Or like we can watch stupid people draft like, pizza toppings and pick Palios number one. Yeah. You know, was the decision ever I agree,

00;09;48;01 - 00;10;03;43
Nick Clason
okay. So off you go. Yeah. What's your what's your well what's your like as of today. Date of recording all that stuff like. Yeah. What do you think your future relationship with like digital and hybrid is going to I obviously yeah.

00;10;03;45 - 00;10;23;16
Nick Clason
You you don't know where you're headed like I guess pie in the sky. Like what would be the hope. The hope would be to recreate this just in the north? yeah. Like I said, like, I, I think that what we're doing is working. I think, again, like, I don't think it's as much about the followers on the page.

00;10;23;16 - 00;10;44;22
Nick Clason
It's more about what we're seeing in the room, you know, like, even like just seeing some of the kids drafting against each other and like, the relationships that are getting built, like, even within that, like you're getting pairs of, like two students who, like, wouldn't typically talk to each other and now they're being forced to like, draft something and like, communicate and like that can make them walk away with some form of connection.

00;10;44;27 - 00;11;09;27
Caleb Maeda
And so I think those are the things that I like about what we're doing. and so I would definitely want to, to create something like that. That's like students on the page driven. Yeah. where it's all about like it's a tool to use that to build community at our, at our group. Yeah. I mean, I think like the way that I've laid out because like, what you're talking about, even two is like, your strategy is like coming at it from like a different even angle.

00;11;09;27 - 00;11;37;57
Nick Clason
Yeah. So like my strategy is like, do fun and silly and stupid content to like, just get on people's feeds and get their attention. Yeah. Maybe you guys have a follow, maybe like start showing up more and more in their algorithm. Yeah. Then sprinkle in teaching content things that like are meaningful and spiritual and whatever, but then have that push them then further down the funnel to like our long form video on YouTube, which then always has like a next step.

Caleb Maeda00;11;55;49
Nick Clason
Yeah. Well and then like also being able to use the YouTube kind of like we did literally like on Sunday where we took the QR code to the baptism series and like that's how we're pushing kids to baptism now as they can go through that class. Like I think having that as also like a resource page on top of the other benefits has been really cool.

00;11;55;54 - 00;12;32;18
Nick Clason
Yeah. But it's like, I guess what's interesting is like how you're saying, like, you see the value of digital and how it plays in the room even, you know, and like, yeah, that's a different benefit than I often even talk about. Yeah. On here. Right. Like I'm always just saying like online to like walk down the funnel, but like you're saying like even if that doesn't happen, like our current pool of students that exist, like we see them interacting and engaging with us because like, yeah, I think a lot of times digital is a process for like how to reach outsiders.

00;12;32;23 - 00;12;53;42
Caleb Maeda
And you're seeing it as like, yeah, but also it can yeah, increase the experience for insiders. Yeah for sure. And like also like I mean it's also a great like invite way because you can be like, hey, the friend from school that doesn't typically go to church. When I come to church to try to be in a YouTube video, like that's also like a it's like it's multifaceted.

00;12;53;42 - 00;13;13;01
Caleb Maeda
You can use it for a lot of different things. Yeah, yeah. What are some of the or have been some of the challenges of being on the or in the hybrid culture, like what has been asked of you? That has been I think it's just like the time it takes to edit videos takes away from other things that you can do.

00;13;13;05 - 00;13;39;12
Caleb Maeda
and like, like obviously having a team like once we got, you know, the interns kind of cooking on drafts and stuff that lighten the load. But I felt like the first half of my residency, I would come to who's who's. Yeah. So undrafted. But yeah, but I feel like my first chunk of my residency was I would show up and I would edit and like, that was what I did, which like, good because now I can edit and like it's a skill that I can market in the future for non-church related products hiring.

00;13;39;21 - 00;14;02;51
Caleb Maeda
But yeah, shout out, please help me. but so I think that phone number down in the appreciate it. Yeah, yeah. 13 of our viewers I'm poor please. My Venmo is somewhere. Yeah, yeah. But, I think that that was tough for me for a little bit just because also, like, I'm just a relationally driven person. And so like the moments like even in the office that like, Drive Me are like the conversations that I'm having with people.

00;14;02;51 - 00;14;18;38
Caleb Maeda
Yeah. And so I think that was a struggle or at least an adjustment period. But also it was interesting because I went to college for music, but since it was a liberal arts school, I took a couple film classes and I like Learn Premiere in those classes already and so on. I came down here and you're like, yeah, we're going to be editing in premiere.

00;14;18;38 - 00;14;42;48
Caleb Maeda
I was like, I know ripple, delete. I can kind of do that. And so teach people. It was a little bit of like a mixed bag of like adjustment, but also familiarity at the same time. and also just kind of like reprioritizing my schedule to see, like where things fit

00;14;18;38 - 00;14;42;48
Nick Clason
does, does editing matter in your opinion?

00;14;42;53 - 00;15;07;12
Caleb Maeda
yeah, I think it does. I think. Actually, I don't I'm not sure. I think it does. I think in, in terms of, like grabbing attention, like the fastest way to make your content more appealing without adjusting your content is just in the editing. Yeah, but you can you can make a highlight reel of, like, any NBA player and make them look good.

00;15;07;12 - 00;15;39;08
00;14;18;38 - 00;14;42;48
Caleb Maeda
Same with like a YouTube video. Like if you've done rumors of Patrick Williams of Thunder, I really I was watching like a highlight video. I was like, this guy is as good as. Yeah. And so like, I think I think from like, like the, the online perspective of it and also like engagement in the room. Like I think back to when I was a student, if you showed me this like super yellow grainy video with like the white noise in the background, that's like almost as loud as this being, like, I would disengage almost immediately just because like, oh, this is an old video, I don't care.

00;15;39;12 - 00;15;54;56
Caleb Maeda
And so I think that there's that kind of like the production value does serve a purpose, but I think that I think we can get in the weeds a little bit like for our person just because like where the yeah, where the people who are like are doing the editing. So we're like, I hate that I did this and no one would even notice.

00;15;55;09 - 00;16;10;52
Nick Clason
Well, what we're talking like yesterday on stage, like the video on the, photo back to. Yeah. Like you and I could see the, like. Yeah. That the edge was a little bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. On screen. But yeah, I don't know. But nobody noticed that before I pointed it out, I don't know, I wasn't paying. Oh not right.

00;16;10;55 - 00;16;27;02
Caleb Maeda
Probably not because you didn't spend very much time on that. Yeah at all. But then like I said look you noticed that. Then there's the little thing. And like, that's just part of, I think, being an artist because like, you're never going to be perfect at your craft and like, filmmaking and editing is like an art form. Yeah.

00;16;27;06 - 00;16;43;45
Caleb Maeda
Not to get all weird about it, but like, it is. And so, I think also just like not getting caught up in that, I think is important because there is a level of production value that is valuable. But I think, you know, any time we get so caught up in the production value that we're not thinking about the content, I think that's where we're going to fall into things.

00;16;43;45 - 00;17;01;32
Caleb Maeda
So at the end of the day, we should be delivering good content to our kids because that's what we're here for. Yeah, I agree, but reach out to either of us if you need anything. Yeah, please. Haha. Well, aim for real. Like how much? And our lives changing. Yeah, that's also true dude. Also like starry I'm going to talk about stars.

00;17;01;36 - 00;17;18;05
Caleb Maeda
Shout out to starry. I freaking love this dude and I've never even talked to him. I remember I started when I was doing the Hot Wings video. I started talking to him just like before the videos, just like, hey man, houses are gone. I love you bro. Yeah. And like, like just the ideas you need to build that connection with a dude in India is really cool.

00;17;18;05 - 00;17;31;13
Caleb Maeda
Yeah. And like, you would tell me some of the things that he would say back in like, I don't know, it was just really cool to like, build that with a dude I've never actually spoken to. And the only reason that happened was because we got to a point where, like, we need someone to help us edit and we found a dude on Fiverr.

00;17;31;13 - 00;18;02;09
Nick Clason
Yeah, yeah, yeah, don't don't tell Fiverr that we don't. I mean, to them we didn't we met him through the Google. We so so yeah. interesting. there's a lot, a lot more ministry opportunities, I think, from this than I thought there would be going into it because I thought, I thought that like, like on paper, it sounds like the ministry we're doing is we're doing it for online kids to get connected to church, to hopefully eventually come and then for our kids to have, like, content.

00;18;02;09 - 00;18;23;03
Caleb Maeda
Right. But then there's like the editor who's like discovering Christianity for the first time and like asking questions and stuff. There's like the community that's being built on, like the key kids who are like trying to do the drafts, like all of that extra stuff is stuff that I didn't personally like, think about. And then when I started seeing it like those ended up being the reasons that like, drove me to keep going rather than just the content.

00;18;23;08 - 00;18;46;56
Nick Clason
So what do you what do you think it will look like for you in the future, like because, you know, keeping going, whatever. Like you're quasi being forced to because you're like working and like this is what we're telling you, like, hey, you have to do. But like, yeah, soon you're going to be your own youth pastor working somewhere or for someone or whatever.

00;18;46;56 - 00;19;08;21
Caleb Maeda
Like what? What things do you see yourself? Just like taking most of all of it, honestly, like the the short form, I think that was the other thing. When I came in, I wasn't as big on short form videos as I was the long form videos, just because when I grew up watching YouTube, YouTube was long form videos.

00;19;08;25 - 00;19;28;49
Caleb Maeda
and so taking that and I just look at our, our Instagram reels, it's like, I know, dude, it's friggin nuts. But, yeah. And so I think I'll take a lot of that stuff, especially because, like, it's pretty easy to get a lot of content, like on a Wednesday night, just like sit down with ten kids and you can get like 5 or 6, you know.

00;19;28;54 - 00;20;02;03
Caleb Maeda
And so I think that and I also I think the, the teaching videos stuff, because the there have been a couple churches that I've been looking at, and like their social media is good, but like they just clip their live preachings, which I think is awesome and great and like, that's better than nothing. But I also think that there's something about, the way that we change it for In the Room versus the, the video that I think just makes the video work a little better because we're specifically crafting that part of our message for that medium.

00;20;02;08 - 00;20;31;21
Caleb Maeda
and so I think more work, it's more work, but I think that the payoff is great because also then, like, there's not like the room awkwardness, like there's not the like, con response. And then that frees us up for in the room to do things like table talk and all of that stuff. and also like, just like having your message written down in that form for the long form videos, helps you to say things that I think sometimes, like, I will drop in the room like there's if there's a little fun tidbit that, like, just isn't going to fit in the room, but I really liked it.

00;20;31;21 - 00;20;52;40
Caleb Maeda
Like, I have to say it in the the long form YouTube video. So I think that there's also that kind of added value. But anything else I can think of, probably like, honestly, I probably won't be on the student ministry page as much as I was at the beginning of this. But like, I'm trying to figure out how what does it look like to start this?

00;20;52;40 - 00;21;16;41
Caleb Maeda
Because like I can say on paper, I want all kids to be doing all the drafts all the time. Like if the kids are involved in like, how am I that, you know. Yeah. And so and sometimes it's helpful for them to like see examples. Yeah. And so it's kind of that like that I'm going to try to figure out how to balance that line of like setting the tone but like making sure it's, it's kid first.

00;21;16;46 - 00;21;34;25
Caleb Maeda
and then also like I think finding ways to like do like not only the teaching videos, but like the baptism videos, like courses like that. I think I would also want to pull just because like, I think that that's a great resource page for them that we can pull from. For anytime a kid has questions about baptisms, you can throw them to that.

00;21;34;30 - 00;21;53;32
Nick Clason
yeah. Yeah. And like, you know, you can also expand that. Like, you could even make the workshops that we've been doing into little video series, like, I don't know if there's like a lot of stuff that you can do with playlists and like with. Yeah, having the idea of it being like a course like. Yeah. And like you and I have talked about this a lot, but I think like content for content delivery.

00;21;53;32 - 00;22;09;26
Caleb Maeda
I think YouTube is a better way than live preaching just because like and like again, you've talked about this all the time, but like, I don't know anybody whose primary like learning style is sit down and listen to a lecture for 30 minutes even. You can have the best graphics as you want, like you can have great table talks.

00;22;09;26 - 00;22;27;14
Caleb Maeda
Like I'm not going to pull as much from that as I will from like a ten minute YouTube video with like graphics and like, I don't know, there's just something about the way our brains are wired with our shorter attention spans. I think YouTube is a great medium medium for content delivery in a way that like, we're not getting as much in the room.

00;22;27;16 - 00;22;50;28
Nick Clason
Yeah, I think these days. Yeah. And I mean the again, sky's the limit. Creativity like your, your creativity or lack of creativity is you're like lid on it. So like if you have like a system like we do now where it's like you fill all your messages and everything, like you know, you can at any time play the video that, yeah, the live teaching doesn't work.

00;22;50;33 - 00;23;12;53
Nick Clason
You can play the clips or like, yeah, like we're going to be gone. We were gone for like a conference earlier this year so we could just throw the video up there. Well in like next week we're gone for camp. Yeah on a Sunday. And so your video is broken up into four parts. Yeah. Questions thrown in like so that I can literally hand it off to any volunteer pastor that's back here on staff.

00;23;12;53 - 00;23;34;58
Caleb Maeda
And they can do it pretty seamlessly. Like, yeah, like, yeah, the sky. And that's the thing, if you say learning happens better in like a medium like that, like almost makes you wonder and ask yourself like, how do I, how do I create a hybrid moment between the two? Like I live in the room and like a video.

00;23;35;02 - 00;24;08;05
Caleb Maeda
Yeah. Where like, intersects and is like used strategically for, like a students most optimal way of learning. Yeah. So yeah, I don't know, I think it's, I think it's something that like we haven't tapped into more from like tradition and anything. And I think that school is starting to go this way a little bit like you've heard of like the flipped classroom where they like get a video and then they watch the video at home, and then they do their homework in the classroom, and then they, like, talk to the teacher and work it out in the classroom.

00;24;08;05 - 00;24;38;27
Caleb Maeda
But all of the teaching is done at home through videos. Yeah. And so I think that, like, we're starting to see that shift in like the school realm. And so I think that church should be the next step. just because I think they like I've, we've been saying like, I think it's a much more effective way to deliver content to this generation, because also, like when I think about it, like I can list, you know, a couple topics from like sermons that I've listened to, but like fallout YouTube videos right now that I've been watching, like, I can pull a lot more purely from just like the amount that I can consume in a

00;24;38;27 - 00;25;00;26
Caleb Maeda
sitting. Yeah. You know, like I can consume 30 minutes. Yeah, I can consume 30 minutes of YouTube content more effectively than in the room for, you know, all of those reasons. Yeah. Yeah. So all right well that's it man POG signing out. Score Vikings. Thanks for hanging some video. I'll probably be here on the screen. Yeah. Click it watch it.

00;25;00;26 - 00;25;04;35
Nick Clason
Do the thing. See you next time. Love you stay hybrid. Yeah. Nice.

00;25;05;36 - 00;25;08;28
Nick Clason
I gotta pee. Okay,

00;25;09;49 - 00;25;13;02
Caleb Maeda
Oh.

00;25;13;24 - 00;25;18;35
Nick Clason
I can't wait to hear that. Nice.

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DESCRIPTION
In this video, a Gen-Zer shares their perspective on the future of ministry, specifically focusing on the concept of hybrid ministry. Exploring how technology and traditional practices can blend to create a more inclusive and engaging worship experience, this insightful discussion provides a fresh take on how ministries can adapt to meet the needs of the digital age. If you're curious about how the younger generation views the evolution of ministry, this video is a must-watch!

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📓SHOWNOTES
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🕰️TIMECODES
00:00 A Gen Zer's Take on Hybrid Ministry
01:30 What was your first impression of Hybrid Ministry?
03:01 Did it ever feel like we were trying too hard?
03:52 What has been your relationship with digital?
06:04 What did you think of all this hybrid?
07:08 After all this: Summarize your opinion
09:50 How Digital enhances in-person
12:56 What are the challenges of a Hybrid Space?
14:38 Does Editing Really Matter?
18:54 The Most Surprising Thing from the last year
20:42 The Final Word
--------------
✍️TRANSCRIPT

00;00;00;00 - 00;00;23;54
Nick Clason
Hey, what is up, everybody? Welcome to the Hybrid Ministry show. This is a fun, actually interview episode. So for those of you who have been watching following along over the last year or so, I've mentioned my resident, his name is Caleb. now a nickname. Call him flywheel. because he was in his residence, group Learning project, and he needed to read, from good to great.

00;00;23;54 - 00;00;42;15
Nick Clason
And he knew to read the flywheel chapter. And so I called him flywheel. and he now calls me Thunder Dog because I'm a Oklahoma City Thunder fan. but anyway, he's been with us for a year now, and I actually, I wanted to get his take, today, we actually said goodbye to him. we had, like, a breakfast at our house with him, my family.

00;00;42;20 - 00;00;56;20
Nick Clason
and so he's heading back home, but I want to get his take on what it was like, to work in a hybrid ministry environment. Like, you know, as a resident, you really get a lot of choices on that. And so, since he didn't get a lot of choices, I want to be like, hey, what do you think?

00;00;56;32 - 00;01;16;03
Nick Clason
What are you going to keep? What are you going to get go away from? and so I'm excited to have you kind of sit in on this interview, just conversation informal, him and I and just kind of his experience in this sort of hybrid space. So. Hope you enjoy. if this is helpful to you or anyone else that you might think, give it a like, give it a share.

00;01;16;18 - 00;01;21;23
Nick Clason
give it a subscribe. All those things are incredibly helpful to us. So without any further ado, the exclusive

00;01;21;23 - 00;01;24;25
Nick Clason
one and only Flywheel Caleb Maeda interview.

00;01;26;03 - 00;01;48;33
Nick Clason
Well, I'm here with Flywheel Maeda.

Caleb Maeda
Hey.

so I don't know, like, I don't know. You came into my world, and I told you that hybrid ministry, digital ministry, all that stuff mattered. so. So take us back.

00;01;48;35 - 00;01;53;40
Nick Clason
Take me back to when you, like, started with me at, like back in Chicago. Yeah. Well,

00;01;53;40 - 00;01;57;55
Caleb Maeda
yeah. So back in Chicago is like my first church job. Like in general.

00;01;58;50 - 00;02;11;09
Caleb Maeda
so I wasn't really sure how anything worked. So I think that really started, like, my mind set on, like, hybrid ministry because, like, I didn't have any previous, like, things I was holding on to, like, I had. youth group that I grew up in, but it was pretty different. And also coming out of like the pandemic. yeah. Like it like made sense. And then when I saw it working and like I saw because like the model that you guys used with like the connect groups that like, met in the homes and then watched it and like, interact with it. I thought that was like super cool. And so then also getting to like work on that show and like helped produce a little bit and like run some of this stuff like I like immediately saw the value and also like, like just being a younger person. Like I grew up watching YouTube like like the people that I like, loved growing up or like YouTubers and so like the value of that platform with this generation. I think I also kind of related to and so like from the get go, I was kind of brought in, I was like, yeah, this is legit, I agree. I mean.

00;02;58;06 - 00;03;03;59
Nick Clason
Did you ever, did you ever feel like, oh, these guys are trying to be YouTubers and they're old?

00;03;08;22 - 00;03;23;42
Caleb Maeda
No, because I think at the time it was honestly like the stuff that I was working on at Parkview is like the search for Chuck the duck that summer. And so, like, it was not stupid enough, but it was it was stupid enough that it was like these guys, like, they're clearly not doing this for clout. Like, I don't know any 30 year old man who's like, you know, it'd be really cool searching for a fake rubber duck for an entire summer, you know? And so I never I never got that kind of vibe just because of the nature of what we were doing.

00;03;35;15 - 00;03;42;54
Nick Clason
Yeah. Okay, so then you, after your time with us in Chicago, you go and you work at your home church for a little bit, right? And just interning? Yeah, mostly in the arena of worship.

00;03;50;12 - 00;04;05;10
Caleb Maeda
No, I was is youth for the first school year, and then it was worship the second school year. What was their relationship with digital social media hybrid? I mean, so they're they're your typical like evangelical covenant, like multi-site church. So they're like they're with it, but they're not sure

00;04;05;19 - 00;04;24;37
Nick Clason
I wonder how many evangelical covenant multi-site churches or like you say, typical.

00;04;24;12 - 00;04;38;10
Caleb Maeda
I actually don't know. It's a thing in Minnesota, I guess, from where I grew up. But, so they do have a value of social media, but they're not quite as consistent like they don't have, I don't think. And granted, when I was there, their social media platform was we didn't have students over Christmas break. So like, let's make something fun. And like that was it other than like announcements for events and stuff. Yeah. And now these days it's a little bit more like, you know, the trends where like, you see a guy, like, fall off a stretcher and then it's someone rolling and say, like, you should get to like, you know, those classes.

00;04;38;13 - 00;04;54;21
Nick Clason
I think you need only do some of this.

00;04;38;13 - 00;04;54;21
Caleb Maeda
I saw one the other day. We should do. but so like, they've started doing some more of that stuff in the past year or so. And so I think it's, it's done an uptick, but it's not as fleshed out as, like what we're doing here of like two posts a day, you know, that kind of, yeah.

00;04;54;26 - 00;05;18;11
Caleb Maeda
And they don't like a good day. Yeah. And they don't they don't do, like, fun content, like drafts or like things like that. The students other than, like pictures for, like recaps of events and stuff, they're not super on the pages. It's mostly like announcement based stuff. Yeah, yeah. Which like is a is a pretty like standard operating procedure for like churches and social media.

00;05;18;12 - 00;05;24;09
Nick Clason
Yeah. have a whole video linked right here about, you should also be posting announcements.

00;05;24;09 - 00;05;33;40
Caleb Maeda
You Should link to Parkview one to like, I only saw one at a time.

00;05;24;09 - 00;05;33;40
Nick Clason
I can only do one. We have it. We did it. We did.

00;05;33;40 - 00;05;36;36
Caleb Maeda
Really? Yeah. I didn't know that.

00;05;33;40 - 00;05;36;36
Nick Clason
I know you didn't. That's why you link to, like, three times in your last teaching video.

00;05;36;40 - 00;05;51;29
Nick Clason
Don't worry about this link to it here. This link I thought you could. You get one. You get one card per video. There you go. I didn't know that YouTube. I didn't know that one. I'm getting exposed right now. I thought I'd never mind. It's like we can talk about that later, but, Okay, so then

00;05;51;29 - 00;05;55;43
Nick Clason
then you come here and we are.

00;05;55;47 - 00;05;57;55
Nick Clason
What we're doing is very different.

00;05;57;55 - 00;06;09;14
Nick Clason
the Parkview one, by the way. I'll link it down in the description. You can watch it. It's like the 100th episode. 100th episode. How it all started. It's pretty pog. Yeah, I think it was a good one. It was a good one. but anyway,

00;06;09;14 - 00;06;12;23
Nick Clason
you come down here and it's different.

00;06;12;28 - 00;06;26;51
Nick Clason
Put it, put aside your people pleasing nature. Like, just give me the raw, unfiltered, like, what do you think?

00;06;26;51 - 00;06;48;29
Caleb Maeda
I mean, again, like, I, I agreed with what we were doing because I think of my experience at Parkview. I think for me, once we started doing or like trying to make students on the page more of a priority, that was kind of the shift that I was more on board with just because like, yeah, like the the one I struggled with the most were those like the no, it or not dancing TikToks that we did, I freaking I like I'm not a dancer, so I hated them, but like, I hated them cause I

00;06;48;29 - 00;07;14;43
Nick Clason
was not a dancer. Not for like strategy reasons. but once we started getting students on the page, I think that was where I started feeling like, yeah, we're doing something that, like, is cool. so yeah, yeah, that was kind of my first. So, you are heading, like off on your own at some point. At some point we don't know what's next.

00;07;14;48 - 00;07;37;26
Nick Clason
Yeah. But like, what are your thoughts on, like. All right, I'm about to be my own youth pastor, and I just did a, summer internship and then a full year long residency, with, church and youth pastors who are fully bought into, like, digital, like. Yeah. First of all, summarize your opinion

00;07;37;26 - 00;07;40;47
Nick Clason
like, you just you gave a lot of different like examples of like summarize like, yeah.

00;07;40;51 - 00;07;44;10
Nick Clason
Do you think it's like worth it valuable.

00;07;44;10 - 00;07;50;41
Nick Clason
And then like how would you yeah. How would you tell people like here's how it's working on

00;07;50;41 - 00;07;57;25
Nick Clason
like the inside of it because like, you know, if anyone follows me or listen to my stuff like they hear me reference it, talk about what we do.

00;07;57;25 - 00;08;00;45
Nick Clason
But like, you got to see, like, firsthand and like, just be honest.

00;08;00;45 - 00;08;05;52
Nick Clason
Like, are you like, I don't know, I don't know if it's working or not. Yeah. I mean, I think, I think the

00;08;05;52 - 00;08;25;31
Caleb Maeda
things that have been working the most has been getting students involved on the page, not even in terms of like on the page traction as much as like in person traction, because I think I think like with the social challenge that we did with the Hot Wings thing that we did like, it was a lot of kids saying like, hey, how can I be on screen?

00;08;25;41 - 00;08;38;03
Caleb Maeda
You know, this is what it was. It was how can I what can I do? Yeah. And like, well, that shouldn't be your only motivation to like, do these things. I think it lended itself great to increasing like the desire to like, serve

00;08;38;03 - 00;08;56;03
Caleb Maeda
or like well and like there, like you said, like what's normal to them. Yeah. Like and the option to like be on social media or be on YouTube is like a little bit, well, because like, I remember growing up and like seeing all my favorite YouTubers and thinking like, man, I wish I could do that, but I don't know how to do this.

00;08;56;03 - 00;09;24;01
Caleb Maeda
I don't know how to do this. And so I think it's a really great way for students to even live that little piece of them who, like, they don't know how to set up a studio. They don't know what lights are. Yeah, I don't know what that is. that's Jake. Yeah it is. Jake. Shout out to Jake I love you, but, like they it's it's an experience for them to get to like, live that out a little bit and then also do it in like a safe context where like, it's like, I don't know, it's safe for the family content.

00;09;24;01 - 00;09;39;47
Caleb Maeda
Like I think also just like the opportunity, the whole family. Yeah. It is like the opportunity to just like replace one video, I think in a kids feed is like a win in my opinion, because of just like the nature of social media, you know, like we can get into the whole of like comparing our lives and stuff.

00;09;39;49 - 00;09;48;01
Caleb Maeda
Yeah. Or like we can watch stupid people draft like, pizza toppings and pick Palios number one. Yeah. You know, was the decision ever I agree,

00;09;48;01 - 00;10;03;43
Nick Clason
okay. So off you go. Yeah. What's your what's your well what's your like as of today. Date of recording all that stuff like. Yeah. What do you think your future relationship with like digital and hybrid is going to I obviously yeah.

00;10;03;45 - 00;10;23;16
Nick Clason
You you don't know where you're headed like I guess pie in the sky. Like what would be the hope. The hope would be to recreate this just in the north? yeah. Like I said, like, I, I think that what we're doing is working. I think, again, like, I don't think it's as much about the followers on the page.

00;10;23;16 - 00;10;44;22
Nick Clason
It's more about what we're seeing in the room, you know, like, even like just seeing some of the kids drafting against each other and like, the relationships that are getting built, like, even within that, like you're getting pairs of, like two students who, like, wouldn't typically talk to each other and now they're being forced to like, draft something and like, communicate and like that can make them walk away with some form of connection.

00;10;44;27 - 00;11;09;27
Caleb Maeda
And so I think those are the things that I like about what we're doing. and so I would definitely want to, to create something like that. That's like students on the page driven. Yeah. where it's all about like it's a tool to use that to build community at our, at our group. Yeah. I mean, I think like the way that I've laid out because like, what you're talking about, even two is like, your strategy is like coming at it from like a different even angle.

00;11;09;27 - 00;11;37;57
Nick Clason
Yeah. So like my strategy is like, do fun and silly and stupid content to like, just get on people's feeds and get their attention. Yeah. Maybe you guys have a follow, maybe like start showing up more and more in their algorithm. Yeah. Then sprinkle in teaching content things that like are meaningful and spiritual and whatever, but then have that push them then further down the funnel to like our long form video on YouTube, which then always has like a next step.

Caleb Maeda00;11;55;49
Nick Clason
Yeah. Well and then like also being able to use the YouTube kind of like we did literally like on Sunday where we took the QR code to the baptism series and like that's how we're pushing kids to baptism now as they can go through that class. Like I think having that as also like a resource page on top of the other benefits has been really cool.

00;11;55;54 - 00;12;32;18
Nick Clason
Yeah. But it's like, I guess what's interesting is like how you're saying, like, you see the value of digital and how it plays in the room even, you know, and like, yeah, that's a different benefit than I often even talk about. Yeah. On here. Right. Like I'm always just saying like online to like walk down the funnel, but like you're saying like even if that doesn't happen, like our current pool of students that exist, like we see them interacting and engaging with us because like, yeah, I think a lot of times digital is a process for like how to reach outsiders.

00;12;32;23 - 00;12;53;42
Caleb Maeda
And you're seeing it as like, yeah, but also it can yeah, increase the experience for insiders. Yeah for sure. And like also like I mean it's also a great like invite way because you can be like, hey, the friend from school that doesn't typically go to church. When I come to church to try to be in a YouTube video, like that's also like a it's like it's multifaceted.

00;12;53;42 - 00;13;13;01
Caleb Maeda
You can use it for a lot of different things. Yeah, yeah. What are some of the or have been some of the challenges of being on the or in the hybrid culture, like what has been asked of you? That has been I think it's just like the time it takes to edit videos takes away from other things that you can do.

00;13;13;05 - 00;13;39;12
Caleb Maeda
and like, like obviously having a team like once we got, you know, the interns kind of cooking on drafts and stuff that lighten the load. But I felt like the first half of my residency, I would come to who's who's. Yeah. So undrafted. But yeah, but I feel like my first chunk of my residency was I would show up and I would edit and like, that was what I did, which like, good because now I can edit and like it's a skill that I can market in the future for non-church related products hiring.

00;13;39;21 - 00;14;02;51
Caleb Maeda
But yeah, shout out, please help me. but so I think that phone number down in the appreciate it. Yeah, yeah. 13 of our viewers I'm poor please. My Venmo is somewhere. Yeah, yeah. But, I think that that was tough for me for a little bit just because also, like, I'm just a relationally driven person. And so like the moments like even in the office that like, Drive Me are like the conversations that I'm having with people.

00;14;02;51 - 00;14;18;38
Caleb Maeda
Yeah. And so I think that was a struggle or at least an adjustment period. But also it was interesting because I went to college for music, but since it was a liberal arts school, I took a couple film classes and I like Learn Premiere in those classes already and so on. I came down here and you're like, yeah, we're going to be editing in premiere.

00;14;18;38 - 00;14;42;48
Caleb Maeda
I was like, I know ripple, delete. I can kind of do that. And so teach people. It was a little bit of like a mixed bag of like adjustment, but also familiarity at the same time. and also just kind of like reprioritizing my schedule to see, like where things fit

00;14;18;38 - 00;14;42;48
Nick Clason
does, does editing matter in your opinion?

00;14;42;53 - 00;15;07;12
Caleb Maeda
yeah, I think it does. I think. Actually, I don't I'm not sure. I think it does. I think in, in terms of, like grabbing attention, like the fastest way to make your content more appealing without adjusting your content is just in the editing. Yeah, but you can you can make a highlight reel of, like, any NBA player and make them look good.

00;15;07;12 - 00;15;39;08
00;14;18;38 - 00;14;42;48
Caleb Maeda
Same with like a YouTube video. Like if you've done rumors of Patrick Williams of Thunder, I really I was watching like a highlight video. I was like, this guy is as good as. Yeah. And so like, I think I think from like, like the, the online perspective of it and also like engagement in the room. Like I think back to when I was a student, if you showed me this like super yellow grainy video with like the white noise in the background, that's like almost as loud as this being, like, I would disengage almost immediately just because like, oh, this is an old video, I don't care.

00;15;39;12 - 00;15;54;56
Caleb Maeda
And so I think that there's that kind of like the production value does serve a purpose, but I think that I think we can get in the weeds a little bit like for our person just because like where the yeah, where the people who are like are doing the editing. So we're like, I hate that I did this and no one would even notice.

00;15;55;09 - 00;16;10;52
Nick Clason
Well, what we're talking like yesterday on stage, like the video on the, photo back to. Yeah. Like you and I could see the, like. Yeah. That the edge was a little bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. On screen. But yeah, I don't know. But nobody noticed that before I pointed it out, I don't know, I wasn't paying. Oh not right.

00;16;10;55 - 00;16;27;02
Caleb Maeda
Probably not because you didn't spend very much time on that. Yeah at all. But then like I said look you noticed that. Then there's the little thing. And like, that's just part of, I think, being an artist because like, you're never going to be perfect at your craft and like, filmmaking and editing is like an art form. Yeah.

00;16;27;06 - 00;16;43;45
Caleb Maeda
Not to get all weird about it, but like, it is. And so, I think also just like not getting caught up in that, I think is important because there is a level of production value that is valuable. But I think, you know, any time we get so caught up in the production value that we're not thinking about the content, I think that's where we're going to fall into things.

00;16;43;45 - 00;17;01;32
Caleb Maeda
So at the end of the day, we should be delivering good content to our kids because that's what we're here for. Yeah, I agree, but reach out to either of us if you need anything. Yeah, please. Haha. Well, aim for real. Like how much? And our lives changing. Yeah, that's also true dude. Also like starry I'm going to talk about stars.

00;17;01;36 - 00;17;18;05
Caleb Maeda
Shout out to starry. I freaking love this dude and I've never even talked to him. I remember I started when I was doing the Hot Wings video. I started talking to him just like before the videos, just like, hey man, houses are gone. I love you bro. Yeah. And like, like just the ideas you need to build that connection with a dude in India is really cool.

00;17;18;05 - 00;17;31;13
Caleb Maeda
Yeah. And like, you would tell me some of the things that he would say back in like, I don't know, it was just really cool to like, build that with a dude I've never actually spoken to. And the only reason that happened was because we got to a point where, like, we need someone to help us edit and we found a dude on Fiverr.

00;17;31;13 - 00;18;02;09
Nick Clason
Yeah, yeah, yeah, don't don't tell Fiverr that we don't. I mean, to them we didn't we met him through the Google. We so so yeah. interesting. there's a lot, a lot more ministry opportunities, I think, from this than I thought there would be going into it because I thought, I thought that like, like on paper, it sounds like the ministry we're doing is we're doing it for online kids to get connected to church, to hopefully eventually come and then for our kids to have, like, content.

00;18;02;09 - 00;18;23;03
Caleb Maeda
Right. But then there's like the editor who's like discovering Christianity for the first time and like asking questions and stuff. There's like the community that's being built on, like the key kids who are like trying to do the drafts, like all of that extra stuff is stuff that I didn't personally like, think about. And then when I started seeing it like those ended up being the reasons that like, drove me to keep going rather than just the content.

00;18;23;08 - 00;18;46;56
Nick Clason
So what do you what do you think it will look like for you in the future, like because, you know, keeping going, whatever. Like you're quasi being forced to because you're like working and like this is what we're telling you, like, hey, you have to do. But like, yeah, soon you're going to be your own youth pastor working somewhere or for someone or whatever.

00;18;46;56 - 00;19;08;21
Caleb Maeda
Like what? What things do you see yourself? Just like taking most of all of it, honestly, like the the short form, I think that was the other thing. When I came in, I wasn't as big on short form videos as I was the long form videos, just because when I grew up watching YouTube, YouTube was long form videos.

00;19;08;25 - 00;19;28;49
Caleb Maeda
and so taking that and I just look at our, our Instagram reels, it's like, I know, dude, it's friggin nuts. But, yeah. And so I think I'll take a lot of that stuff, especially because, like, it's pretty easy to get a lot of content, like on a Wednesday night, just like sit down with ten kids and you can get like 5 or 6, you know.

00;19;28;54 - 00;20;02;03
Caleb Maeda
And so I think that and I also I think the, the teaching videos stuff, because the there have been a couple churches that I've been looking at, and like their social media is good, but like they just clip their live preachings, which I think is awesome and great and like, that's better than nothing. But I also think that there's something about, the way that we change it for In the Room versus the, the video that I think just makes the video work a little better because we're specifically crafting that part of our message for that medium.

00;20;02;08 - 00;20;31;21
Caleb Maeda
and so I think more work, it's more work, but I think that the payoff is great because also then, like, there's not like the room awkwardness, like there's not the like, con response. And then that frees us up for in the room to do things like table talk and all of that stuff. and also like, just like having your message written down in that form for the long form videos, helps you to say things that I think sometimes, like, I will drop in the room like there's if there's a little fun tidbit that, like, just isn't going to fit in the room, but I really liked it.

00;20;31;21 - 00;20;52;40
Caleb Maeda
Like, I have to say it in the the long form YouTube video. So I think that there's also that kind of added value. But anything else I can think of, probably like, honestly, I probably won't be on the student ministry page as much as I was at the beginning of this. But like, I'm trying to figure out how what does it look like to start this?

00;20;52;40 - 00;21;16;41
Caleb Maeda
Because like I can say on paper, I want all kids to be doing all the drafts all the time. Like if the kids are involved in like, how am I that, you know. Yeah. And so and sometimes it's helpful for them to like see examples. Yeah. And so it's kind of that like that I'm going to try to figure out how to balance that line of like setting the tone but like making sure it's, it's kid first.

00;21;16;46 - 00;21;34;25
Caleb Maeda
and then also like I think finding ways to like do like not only the teaching videos, but like the baptism videos, like courses like that. I think I would also want to pull just because like, I think that that's a great resource page for them that we can pull from. For anytime a kid has questions about baptisms, you can throw them to that.

00;21;34;30 - 00;21;53;32
Nick Clason
yeah. Yeah. And like, you know, you can also expand that. Like, you could even make the workshops that we've been doing into little video series, like, I don't know if there's like a lot of stuff that you can do with playlists and like with. Yeah, having the idea of it being like a course like. Yeah. And like you and I have talked about this a lot, but I think like content for content delivery.

00;21;53;32 - 00;22;09;26
Caleb Maeda
I think YouTube is a better way than live preaching just because like and like again, you've talked about this all the time, but like, I don't know anybody whose primary like learning style is sit down and listen to a lecture for 30 minutes even. You can have the best graphics as you want, like you can have great table talks.

00;22;09;26 - 00;22;27;14
Caleb Maeda
Like I'm not going to pull as much from that as I will from like a ten minute YouTube video with like graphics and like, I don't know, there's just something about the way our brains are wired with our shorter attention spans. I think YouTube is a great medium medium for content delivery in a way that like, we're not getting as much in the room.

00;22;27;16 - 00;22;50;28
Nick Clason
Yeah, I think these days. Yeah. And I mean the again, sky's the limit. Creativity like your, your creativity or lack of creativity is you're like lid on it. So like if you have like a system like we do now where it's like you fill all your messages and everything, like you know, you can at any time play the video that, yeah, the live teaching doesn't work.

00;22;50;33 - 00;23;12;53
Nick Clason
You can play the clips or like, yeah, like we're going to be gone. We were gone for like a conference earlier this year so we could just throw the video up there. Well in like next week we're gone for camp. Yeah on a Sunday. And so your video is broken up into four parts. Yeah. Questions thrown in like so that I can literally hand it off to any volunteer pastor that's back here on staff.

00;23;12;53 - 00;23;34;58
Caleb Maeda
And they can do it pretty seamlessly. Like, yeah, like, yeah, the sky. And that's the thing, if you say learning happens better in like a medium like that, like almost makes you wonder and ask yourself like, how do I, how do I create a hybrid moment between the two? Like I live in the room and like a video.

00;23;35;02 - 00;24;08;05
Caleb Maeda
Yeah. Where like, intersects and is like used strategically for, like a students most optimal way of learning. Yeah. So yeah, I don't know, I think it's, I think it's something that like we haven't tapped into more from like tradition and anything. And I think that school is starting to go this way a little bit like you've heard of like the flipped classroom where they like get a video and then they watch the video at home, and then they do their homework in the classroom, and then they, like, talk to the teacher and work it out in the classroom.

00;24;08;05 - 00;24;38;27
Caleb Maeda
But all of the teaching is done at home through videos. Yeah. And so I think that, like, we're starting to see that shift in like the school realm. And so I think that church should be the next step. just because I think they like I've, we've been saying like, I think it's a much more effective way to deliver content to this generation, because also, like when I think about it, like I can list, you know, a couple topics from like sermons that I've listened to, but like fallout YouTube videos right now that I've been watching, like, I can pull a lot more purely from just like the amount that I can consume in a

00;24;38;27 - 00;25;00;26
Caleb Maeda
sitting. Yeah. You know, like I can consume 30 minutes. Yeah, I can consume 30 minutes of YouTube content more effectively than in the room for, you know, all of those reasons. Yeah. Yeah. So all right well that's it man POG signing out. Score Vikings. Thanks for hanging some video. I'll probably be here on the screen. Yeah. Click it watch it.

00;25;00;26 - 00;25;04;35
Nick Clason
Do the thing. See you next time. Love you stay hybrid. Yeah. Nice.

00;25;05;36 - 00;25;08;28
Nick Clason
I gotta pee. Okay,

00;25;09;49 - 00;25;13;02
Caleb Maeda
Oh.

00;25;13;24 - 00;25;18;35
Nick Clason
I can't wait to hear that. Nice.

]]> Episode 072: 🧑‍🚀 New Frontiers in Digital Discipleship for the Church: Message Enhancement 💬 https://www.hybridministry.xyz/072 47536cb7-e33d-42a2-a1bd-63145815fa85 Thu, 23 Nov 2023 04:00:00 -0600 Nick Clason 072 🧑‍🚀 New Frontiers in Digital Discipleship for the Church: Message Enhancement 💬 full Nick Clason Preaching, Teaching and Youth Ministry It’s part of what we do in the church. You’ve also heard that this generation, according to crossrivertherapy.com has an attention span of just 8.25 seconds. Which is 4.25 seconds LESS than we experienced in the year 2000. Famously, that’s less than a goldfish But teaching and preaching the Bible, is not only an integral part of youth ministry, but learning the Bible is important to the discipleship and developmental process, not only in teenagers, but in anyone who claims to follow Jesus Christ as their savior. So how do we take the Hybrid approach to teaching and preaching. Hybrid is not just your physical gathering But not ignoring it in favor of your digital experience, either. It’s both. In this episode we’ll explore the how to preach and teach to a TikTok Generation. What we’re up against. What we can learn from culture And finally, 3 Hybrid Solutions you can implement THIS Wednesday night. 21:39 no 🔥SURE FIRE RESOURCES TO LEVEL UP YOUR SOCIAL MEDIA GAME 🔥 📅 "1 Month Done for You Social Media Posting Tool" https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/free-hybrid-ministry-e-book ☝️ONE-CLICK SOLUTION FOR REELS & SHORTS OPUS FOR AI SHORTS & REELS https://www.opus.pro/?via=a5d361 🧑‍🚀 EXPLORING NEW FRONTIERS PLAYLIST Exploring The New Way to Approach Ministry, Full Playlist https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLngXlSr64YaLQ3UpL1HRb3FFtEu-7S1XZ ======================================== DESCRIPTION Preaching, Teaching and Youth Ministry It’s part of what we do in the church. You’ve also heard that this generation, according to crossrivertherapy.com has an attention span of just 8.25 seconds. Which is 4.25 seconds LESS than we experienced in the year 2000. Famously, that’s less than a goldfish But teaching and preaching the Bible, is not only an integral part of youth ministry, but learning the Bible is important to the discipleship and developmental process, not only in teenagers, but in anyone who claims to follow Jesus Christ as their savior. So how do we take the Hybrid approach to teaching and preaching. Hybrid is not just your physical gathering But not ignoring it in favor of your digital experience, either. It’s both. In this episode we’ll explore the how to preach and teach to a TikTok Generation. What we’re up against. What we can learn from culture And finally, 3 Hybrid Solutions you can implement THIS Wednesday night. churchattendance #hiddentruth #unveiling #2023 #church #truth #revelation #faith #spirituality #religion #worship #community #christianity #belief #sunday #sacred #divine #belief #sermon #christian ======================================== 🆓 FREEBIES 🆓 📅 "1 Month Done for You Social Media Posting Tool" https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/free-hybrid-ministry-e-book 😨 "Have I already Ruined my TikTok Account?" https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/ebook 📹 "Adobe Premiere Pro Presets for Animating Layers" https://share.hsforms.com/1VL1oWwWwQ82PLwsPFkPITgnumis ======================================== 🛠️TOOLS Some of the below links are affilate links in which we do recieve a small commission based on your purchase or use of products //YOUTUBE STARTER KIT FOR UNDER $100 https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/youtubestarterkit AUTO POD https://autopod.lemonsqueezy.com?aff=MX7Vv TRY REV.COM FOR TRANSCRIBING https://rev.pxf.io/R5nDOa OPUS.PRO FOR AI SHORTS & REELS https://www.opus.pro/?via=a5d361 👉 STAY CONNECTED WITH NICK YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@clasonnick Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hybridministry/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@clasonnick Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HybridMinistry Website: https://www.hybridministry.xyz 📓SHOWNOTES //SHOWNOTES & TRANSCRIPTS http://www.hybridministry.xyz/072 //View all the Charts and Graphs via YouTube https://youtu.be/iIgEtxPLGBg //Mr. Beast on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCX6OQ3DkcsbYNE6H8uQQuVA //Alex Hormozi https://www.youtube.com/@AlexHormozi //Steven Furtick https://www.youtube.com/@stevenfurtick //Research on Attention Spans https://www.crossrivertherapy.com/average-human-attention-span https://journals.physiology.org/doi/pdf/10.1152/advan.00109.2016 //My Youth Min by Ym360 https://myyouthmin.com/ //The Learning Triangle https://www.educationcorner.com/the-learning-pyramid.html //Solution #1 https://sidekick.tv/ //Solution #2 https://my.bible.com/events //Solution #3 https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/free-hybrid-ministry-e-book https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/youtubestarterkit 🕰️TIMECODES 00:00-01:36 Preaching to the Generation with the Shortest Attention Span in History 01:36-03:33 Teaching, Preaching and Hybrid Ministry is vital to the next generation 03:33-11:15 Teaching to a TikTok Generation 11:15-15:46 What can youth pastors learn from culture? 15:46-21:39 3 Immediate Hybrid Solutions ✍️TRANSCRIPT Try Transcribing for Yourself at Rev.Com rev.pxf.io/R5nDOa Nick Clason (00:00): Preaching teaching and youth ministry, they go together. It's just part of what we do. But what do you do when you're trying to preach and teach to the generation with the shortest attention span of only 8.25 seconds? Famously, you've heard it's less now than a goldfish down 4.5 seconds from the year 2000. And is there a way for us to digitally enhance through hybrid means the way in which people learn and listen to our teaching and our preaching now in this generation because teaching and preaching is not only an integral part of youth ministry, but it's an integral part of the way in which we disciple our students and help them understand the claims, values and teachings of Jesus. So how do we take this hybrid approach, not just digital, not just in person, but melding of the two together to increase awareness and to help bring about a better retention of our teaching and our preaching to our students. Nick Clason (01:08): In this episode, we will answer how to preach and teach to a tick talk generation and what we as communicators are up against. Additionally, we'll explore what we can learn from the culture that's around us. And finally, I want to offer for you three hybrid solutions to help engage and increase teaching and preaching and awareness in your context that you can implement tomorrow. Welcome to the Hybrid Ministry Show. Well, hey everyone. Welcome back to another edition of the Hybrid Ministry Show. I, as always am your host Nick Clason. I'm a 13 year youth ministry veteran now currently located in the DFW Dallas Fort Worth area. Excited to be with you. I've been teaching and preaching my entire career, but I've also been engaging with the importance of hybrid ministry. I've been aware of that and aware of the digital revolution ever since I started in youth ministry, which is why we have this playlist right here linked at the top of the screen that you're a part of as we are exploring new digital frontiers. Nick Clason (02:12): The last video was all about games and how we can implement hybrid into our games and into the fun in our youth ministries. And this episode is about enhancing the messages. So I hope that you'll stick around to the very end of the video because in addition to that, I have a sure surefire resource linked in the description below. That's not only going to help you win on social media and bring about your messages and all those things to your students and help bring that to them the other hours of your week, but it'll also help you have fun with them like we talked about in the last video. And so I want to encourage you to I you to subscribe. Those things are free for you and they mean a lot to me, and I want you to do that because we do drop resources, like I just mentioned, 40 done for you, an entire month's worth of social media, but not just a bunch of graphics. Nick Clason (03:04): This is you actually getting in front of the camera, getting in front of a video, using yourself, your students, your leaders, whoever you want to help change the game on your social media platform. And so those types of things are coming at you every single week. We'll drop a new episode every single Thursday, so like subscribe, can't wait to see on the other side, but hey, we are going to be diving into teaching to a TikTok generation. Let's explore that together. So famously, this generation has an attention span of 8.25 seconds. It said that that is less than the household goldfish. So I don't know if any of you guys have gold fishes or teenagers in your house, but if you do, your teenager has a shorter attention span than a goldfish. What is going on nowadays though is the short form video revolution ushered into us by TikTok during the pandemic has changed the way in which we engage with content online. Nick Clason (04:07): It just has our attention spans are getting shorter. The need and relevance for a really, really crucial opening section of your video is what is going to determine if someone sticks around in your video or if they're going to leave. In fact, I want to share with you three examples from three very different classes and creators and just like different pockets of YouTube, but all three very good, three people who know what they're doing on social media. And I want to point out to you, we're going to watch 'em right here live on screen. I want to react to how well their hook and how well their intro does. So the first one up is a Mr. Beast video. So let's check this out together. Nick Clason (04:54): Hundred million mankind, okay? He's just taught, he's just B roll. He's got Justin Timberlake on there. Whoa, got those waves with his editing's great all the way to this barely functioning house, more of a shed. Well, why does this house cost a dollar? Yeah, we get another storm. It's probably going to, he's already into the content now of his video. He's only 38 seconds in. It feels like the intro. It just seamlessly moves straight into the content. Mr. Beast is probably the best at the opening ones. This one is more of a entrepreneur guy, guru trying to help you win online. So let's check out his video. This is my most brutally honest advice to my, you beat 99% of people zoomed out without media advice to my younger self and Nick Clason (05:57): How I, you're going to lose sleep. You'll doubt whether it'll work. You'll stress. He's catering to the difficulty of what he does and what the people that follow him need to do. He's got B roll, he's got light transitions, all that type of stuff. Great. Now this one right here, this is Churchill from Elevation Steven S check this one out sitting on that you're not using today. That's not the beginning of his sermon, but it's the beginning of this video. Arrows, you should have taken everything God gave you kept striking until you saw it to. They edited it so that it started there at what they considered to be the most interesting part, artillery to be defeated. It was his lack of drive. The reason I want to show all of you that is that the first 30 seconds or less of every single one of those videos, all very different, but all very good. Nick Clason (06:56): Everyone who edited that video knew exactly what they were doing. So I actually have a video that I just released on a platform called My Youth Men, which is a membership tier of YM 360. You can check it out, link in the description for a seven day free trial. But the video is about discipling students and teenagers through the usage pitfalls and platforms with cell phones as opposed to a way, and I show you those videos because I want to say that's what we as communicators are up against. Your students are watching those for entertainment, for fun, even maybe for inspiration with a Steven Furtick. And then you and I get up as their youth pastor and we start teaching at them in all of our old seminary taught ways. I think as I said in my video, that there are new ways of doing it. Nick Clason (07:51): In fact, this is a educator's tool. It's going to be up here on the screen. If you're listening to the podcast, make sure that you hit the link in the show notes so you can see everything on YouTube with all of our video overlays and all of our things flying in. But this is called the knowledge pyramid, and there are two sections to it. There's the passive teaching methods and then there's the participatory teaching methods. And most of us in church are using the passive teaching methods and the percentages are broken down by the knowledge retention rate. So how well this style of teaching helps people retain that type of teaching. And so the lowest at 5% is lecture based style. You might think 8.25 seconds is low, but I'm just going to admit to you, I am bored after a lecture after only 8.25 seconds. Nick Clason (08:42): You have to be really killing it, and I have to be really interested in that form of content. In the lecture style pyramid, 10% of the retention rate is reading, 20% is audio visual. So that would be something like including slides and or video in your teaching. And then 30% is demonstration. That's of the passive teaching style methods. So all of those things are all things that you've been taught probably in seminary of how to teach someone and how to maintain relevance as you teach someone. But then it shifts and at 50% a discussion group, a participatory teaching method is where that learning retention rate jumps up to 50%. If someone practices what they've learned by doing it, it jumps to 75% and then if they teach others, it jumps to 90%. So in most cases, us as youth pastors, we push our students through passive teaching methods, and then finally we get them into a discussion group As a participatory teaching method, discussion group is the lowest of the participatory section of retention, and that is why you and I as we are teaching, we need to differ at what we're doing. Look at what Mr. Beast did, how he looked at all the different houses, right? And he kept it moving. He was only on each house for just a few seconds. He was moving, he was garnering interest, he was keeping you hooked. Even look at fur, he's on the floor with arrows in hand doing his thing. Yeah, it was lecture style, but there's visuals to it. And in our youth ministries, more often than not, we're going to push people in to small groups, which is a relevant and meaningful participatory teaching method. Nick Clason (10:32): And so as we know and look at the different teaching pyramid styles, here is my question, what do we do? How do we infuse and use hybrid to help increase the retention rates of the learnings? Because you know that the message that you're teaching matters. It's a truth of God. It's a truth from God's word, and it's been put on your heart by him, and you're trying to help share that message with the students in which God has entrusted to you in your student ministry. So what do you do about it? I think that there are a couple of clues that we can learn from culture, even from some of those YouTube videos that we watch. And so that's what we're going to check out in the next section. Neil Bradbury has a quote. The link to that article is in the show notes. He says, the eight second myth, as he classifies it for attention spans is actually more related to human behavior on websites and on social media and how many seconds the average person spends on a website before clicking away or navigating off of it. Nick Clason (11:39): So we have famously dubbed Generation Z and Gen Alpha subsequently as the generation with the tension span lower than a goldfish. And that's true as it relates to social media and Mr. Beast and Alex Har Zi, and even Steven Fer and Elevation, they're trying to capture people's attention on social media. So they do have to make that happen within eight seconds. And we are up against that, I would say, as communicators because that's how students are spending a majority of their time. Gen Z's using their cell phone more than any other screen-based device combined. However, I want to point something out that is a website statistic. And so while that is true of websites, the attention span is a little bit longer because eight seconds is incredibly short. And check this out. Over the last however many years, these are the top five grossing box office movies of all time. Nick Clason (12:35): So in 2009, avatar came out, and I think it's even been supplanted by itself for the re-release or something like that, but Avatar, the movie is two hours and 42 minutes. Avengers End Game came out in 2019. Shout out to my favorite movie. I love you. 3000. It is three hours in one minute. I was nervous going into Avengers end game. I was like, I might have to pee. What do I do if I have to pee? And I did. Titanic in 1992 was three hours and 14 minutes. Star Wars episode seven, two hours and 18 minutes, and an Avengers Infinity War, the prequel to end game 2018, two hours and 29 minutes long. Movies are still making money, they're still making them, and they're still releasing them. Also, shout out to Disney for owning four of the top five of those properties. All that to be said though, if it weren't lucrative and if it weren't making money, Disney and the other major motion picture companies in America wouldn't be making movies at that length. Nick Clason (13:43): So what does that mean for us? We got this eight second thing, but now we got movies that are going longer than three hours. How do we reconcile the difference between those two? My contention is this, if it's good, people will pay attention. It's that simple. And here's the reality. Most research, including Ted Talk and that organization say that a sweet spot for lectures is anywhere from 10 to 15 minutes. That's optimal. However, if it's moving, if it's keeping attention, if it's changing things up, even just going back and watching Mr. Beast intro video, how if it's moving and adapting, you can keep the attention of your audience. But here's a gut check. If Avatar and Endgame and Star Wars and Titanic are keeping people's attention, but you're losing them after only eight seconds, then the gut check moment for you and I as youth pastors might be, we might be more boring than we think we are. Nick Clason (14:46): In fact, I've been recording videos on this YouTube channel for six months, eight months now, and that's been a gut check moment for me. When certain videos get less views, I'll go back, I'll look at the analytics and I'll go and re-listen to it myself. And you know what? I'll notice, man, I'm boring, right? I have to learn how to be more captivating. I have to learn how to be more interesting. I have to learn how to keep and retain my audience longer throughout the duration of my videos. Not only is that true for me as a communicator via YouTube via video to y'all, but it's also true for me as a youth pastor. But going back and looking, watching those videos, which by the way, if you are not prerecording your messages or recording them at all to go back and look and learn, you are missing out on the easiest way to become better as a communicator. Nick Clason (15:31): But there's another hack and there's another little silver bullet that's going to slide in here because we are going to be exploring three hybrid ideas in this digital frontier to enhance our messages in the room. Let's check it out. So what are these hybrid ideas? Like I said, it's not just physical. It's not just digital, but it's a melding of the two. So in my mind, you're teaching live in the room, but you're putting things on their cell phone or putting resources on their cell phone for them to use later because they're taking their cell phone with them for the other 165 hours beyond just the one hour that you've been in your program. And most of us as youth pastors, we're not good enough to contend with cell phones. So instead of contending with them, using them, leaning into them, we just forced them to lock them away or get rid of them. Nick Clason (16:20): But one of my favorite solutions from my favorite people over at Download Youth Ministry is sidekick. Check it out, sidekick TV link in the show notes. I get zero kickback from this, but I'm a power user and they just released or they're going to release and listen. I may be letting the cat out of the bag a little bit, but they're going to be releasing a polling feature. So you can put a QR code on the screen, students can scan it, and they can vote live time, and you can show it live from the stage. And better yet, you can now control sidekick from your phone or your iPad if you don't have a tech person running back in the back. And so you can do live interactive types of things to interact with your in-person and letting them use the digital means in front of them. Nick Clason (17:08): So you can ask like, Hey, what is the best Thanksgiving food? Is it stuffing mashed potatoes, pumpkin pie, Turkey or ham? Let us know. Scan this QR code, and then you can get live results from your audience. You also, just like the learning pyramid showed, in addition to your lecture style, you need to be bringing visual aid with it. Use your screens, use your multimedia to your advantage. Use the things that are common to your students, like memes and tos. You can even pull out things like, Hey, show the most interesting photo from your last week in your camera roll. And one of my all time favorite ways to be hybrid is any sort of call to action, a camp, sign up, a discipleship, sign up. Even now, the sidekick voting thing use QR codes. They've had a resurgence since the pandemic, but people now can scan QR codes with just their camera app and their phone. Nick Clason (18:02): It will pull a link up and boom, you are off to the races. Use QR codes to your advantage. Use sidekick, use digital media, use your screens to interact and make things hybrid. The next idea that I have for you is you version events in our space, we call them digital notes. And so we link our YouVersion live events. If you didn't know, YouVersion is the Bible app made by Life church, but they have a events portion. And so what happens is if someone is in your church, it will pull geographically all the events that are live and they can get in there and there can be notes. Your main points scriptures you Additionally, my favorite reason for it is you can create call to action. So you can put your camp signup, you can put a Bible reading plan so they can be on the digital notes. Nick Clason (19:01): They can be taking notes in the space in your room as you're teaching, as you're preaching. And then at the end, you can be like, and hey, if you are learning right now and enjoying this message about prayer, but you want to grow even deeper into prayer, then I have a seven day prayer challenge plan linked in the you version, in the digital notes, whatever you want to call it. And kids can click it on their phone and write their sign up for a Bible reading plan. It's a way to help foster discipleship to lean into the hybrid, right? You taught something, but now by just having notes available to them on their phone, you can say, Hey, click accept, and start reading that plan. The third idea that I have for you is use YouTube and use social media. In fact, in the links down below, I have a couple of things, a less than $100 YouTube setup for you to start doing messages similar to this one right here where you're sitting direct to camera and posting your messages to YouTube. Nick Clason (19:59): If you have live streaming capabilities, then do that. But if you don't, as a youth pastor, I get it. I don't either sit down, prerecord your messages. In addition to that, you can use a service also linked in the description called Opus Pro to then take your long form and clip it into short form and give yourself a bunch of social media content for the week. And if you then need something to help fill in some of the other gaps, that's where my surefire resource, my ebook, my 40 done for you ideas comes in. And that message can live in perpetuity online as you help answer the specific faith questions of this next generation. It can be more than just for students who miss. It can be for parents to check it out. It can be for students who don't even go to your church. Nick Clason (20:43): It can be for students who go to your church to share messages with friends if they would never bring their friends to church, they can share a message on YouTube with their friends. And so those are my three ideas, sidekick in digital media, you versions, digital notes, and finally, utilize and use YouTube and social media to your advantage. The final piece of this playlist is we're going to be exploring and talking about how do we care for students in an ongoing type of way. We meet with them once a week, but then there's 167 hours. How can we, in a hybrid way care for the students pastorally in the ways in which God has entrusted to us? That video is linked right here on the screen. Make sure you check it out. We're making digital discipleship easy, possible and accessible. So as always, and don't forget, stay hybrid. Hybrid Ministry, Youth Ministry, Digital Discipleship, Digital Discipleship Youth Ministry, digital ministry, ministry, church, digital discipleship and evangelism, Student Ministry, Student Ministry Coach, Youth Ministry Coach, How To Teach to a TikTok Generation, How to Teach Teenagers, Preaching to Teenagers, Teenagers short attention spans, teen social media use, adhd in teens, adhd, how to focus, goldfish attention span, avengers endgame, teach teens the bible, mr beast 🔥SURE FIRE RESOURCES TO LEVEL UP YOUR SOCIAL MEDIA GAME 🔥

📅 "1 Month Done for You Social Media Posting Tool"
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☝️ONE-CLICK SOLUTION FOR REELS & SHORTS
OPUS FOR AI SHORTS & REELS
https://www.opus.pro/?via=a5d361

🧑‍🚀 EXPLORING NEW FRONTIERS PLAYLIST
Exploring The New Way to Approach Ministry, Full Playlist
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLngXlSr64YaLQ3UpL1HRb3FFtEu-7S1XZ

========================================

DESCRIPTION
Preaching, Teaching and Youth Ministry
It’s part of what we do in the church.

You’ve also heard that this generation, according to crossrivertherapy.com has an attention span of just 8.25 seconds. Which is 4.25 seconds LESS than we experienced in the year 2000.

Famously, that’s less than a goldfish

But teaching and preaching the Bible, is not only an integral part of youth ministry, but learning the Bible is important to the discipleship and developmental process, not only in teenagers, but in anyone who claims to follow Jesus Christ as their savior.

So how do we take the Hybrid approach to teaching and preaching.
Hybrid is not just your physical gathering
But not ignoring it in favor of your digital experience, either.

It’s both.

In this episode we’ll explore the how to preach and teach to a TikTok Generation.
What we’re up against.

What we can learn from culture

And finally, 3 Hybrid Solutions you can implement THIS Wednesday night.

churchattendance #hiddentruth #unveiling #2023 #church #truth #revelation #faith #spirituality #religion #worship #community #christianity #belief #sunday #sacred #divine #belief #sermon #christian

========================================

🆓 FREEBIES 🆓
📅 "1 Month Done for You Social Media Posting Tool"
https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/free-hybrid-ministry-e-book

😨 "Have I already Ruined my TikTok Account?"
https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/ebook

📹 "Adobe Premiere Pro Presets for Animating Layers"
https://share.hsforms.com/1VL1oWwWwQ82PLwsPFkPITgnumis

========================================
🛠️TOOLS
Some of the below links are affilate links in which we do recieve a small commission based on your purchase or use of products
//YOUTUBE STARTER KIT FOR UNDER $100
https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/youtubestarterkit

AUTO POD
https://autopod.lemonsqueezy.com?aff=MX7Vv

TRY REV.COM FOR TRANSCRIBING
https://rev.pxf.io/R5nDOa

OPUS.PRO FOR AI SHORTS & REELS

https://www.opus.pro/?via=a5d361

👉 STAY CONNECTED WITH NICK
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@clasonnick
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hybridministry/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@clasonnick
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HybridMinistry

Website: https://www.hybridministry.xyz

📓SHOWNOTES
//SHOWNOTES & TRANSCRIPTS
http://www.hybridministry.xyz/072

//View all the Charts and Graphs via YouTube
https://youtu.be/iIgEtxPLGBg

//Mr. Beast on YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCX6OQ3DkcsbYNE6H8uQQuVA

//Alex Hormozi
https://www.youtube.com/@AlexHormozi

//Steven Furtick
https://www.youtube.com/@stevenfurtick

//Research on Attention Spans
https://www.crossrivertherapy.com/average-human-attention-span
https://journals.physiology.org/doi/pdf/10.1152/advan.00109.2016

//My Youth Min by Ym360
https://myyouthmin.com/

//The Learning Triangle
https://www.educationcorner.com/the-learning-pyramid.html

//Solution #1
https://sidekick.tv/

//Solution #2
https://my.bible.com/events

//Solution #3
https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/free-hybrid-ministry-e-book
https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/youtubestarterkit

🕰️TIMECODES
00:00-01:36 Preaching to the Generation with the Shortest Attention Span in History
01:36-03:33 Teaching, Preaching and Hybrid Ministry is vital to the next generation
03:33-11:15 Teaching to a TikTok Generation
11:15-15:46 What can youth pastors learn from culture?

15:46-21:39 3 Immediate Hybrid Solutions

✍️TRANSCRIPT
Try Transcribing for Yourself at Rev.Com
rev.pxf.io/R5nDOa

Nick Clason (00:00):
Preaching teaching and youth ministry, they go together. It's just part of what we do. But what do you do when you're trying to preach and teach to the generation with the shortest attention span of only 8.25 seconds? Famously, you've heard it's less now than a goldfish down 4.5 seconds from the year 2000. And is there a way for us to digitally enhance through hybrid means the way in which people learn and listen to our teaching and our preaching now in this generation because teaching and preaching is not only an integral part of youth ministry, but it's an integral part of the way in which we disciple our students and help them understand the claims, values and teachings of Jesus. So how do we take this hybrid approach, not just digital, not just in person, but melding of the two together to increase awareness and to help bring about a better retention of our teaching and our preaching to our students.

Nick Clason (01:08):
In this episode, we will answer how to preach and teach to a tick talk generation and what we as communicators are up against. Additionally, we'll explore what we can learn from the culture that's around us. And finally, I want to offer for you three hybrid solutions to help engage and increase teaching and preaching and awareness in your context that you can implement tomorrow. Welcome to the Hybrid Ministry Show. Well, hey everyone. Welcome back to another edition of the Hybrid Ministry Show. I, as always am your host Nick Clason. I'm a 13 year youth ministry veteran now currently located in the DFW Dallas Fort Worth area. Excited to be with you. I've been teaching and preaching my entire career, but I've also been engaging with the importance of hybrid ministry. I've been aware of that and aware of the digital revolution ever since I started in youth ministry, which is why we have this playlist right here linked at the top of the screen that you're a part of as we are exploring new digital frontiers.

Nick Clason (02:12):
The last video was all about games and how we can implement hybrid into our games and into the fun in our youth ministries. And this episode is about enhancing the messages. So I hope that you'll stick around to the very end of the video because in addition to that, I have a sure surefire resource linked in the description below. That's not only going to help you win on social media and bring about your messages and all those things to your students and help bring that to them the other hours of your week, but it'll also help you have fun with them like we talked about in the last video. And so I want to encourage you to I you to subscribe. Those things are free for you and they mean a lot to me, and I want you to do that because we do drop resources, like I just mentioned, 40 done for you, an entire month's worth of social media, but not just a bunch of graphics.

Nick Clason (03:04):
This is you actually getting in front of the camera, getting in front of a video, using yourself, your students, your leaders, whoever you want to help change the game on your social media platform. And so those types of things are coming at you every single week. We'll drop a new episode every single Thursday, so like subscribe, can't wait to see on the other side, but hey, we are going to be diving into teaching to a TikTok generation. Let's explore that together. So famously, this generation has an attention span of 8.25 seconds. It said that that is less than the household goldfish. So I don't know if any of you guys have gold fishes or teenagers in your house, but if you do, your teenager has a shorter attention span than a goldfish. What is going on nowadays though is the short form video revolution ushered into us by TikTok during the pandemic has changed the way in which we engage with content online.

Nick Clason (04:07):
It just has our attention spans are getting shorter. The need and relevance for a really, really crucial opening section of your video is what is going to determine if someone sticks around in your video or if they're going to leave. In fact, I want to share with you three examples from three very different classes and creators and just like different pockets of YouTube, but all three very good, three people who know what they're doing on social media. And I want to point out to you, we're going to watch 'em right here live on screen. I want to react to how well their hook and how well their intro does. So the first one up is a Mr. Beast video. So let's check this out together.

Nick Clason (04:54):
Hundred million mankind, okay? He's just taught, he's just B roll. He's got Justin Timberlake on there. Whoa, got those waves with his editing's great all the way to this barely functioning house, more of a shed. Well, why does this house cost a dollar? Yeah, we get another storm. It's probably going to, he's already into the content now of his video. He's only 38 seconds in. It feels like the intro. It just seamlessly moves straight into the content. Mr. Beast is probably the best at the opening ones. This one is more of a entrepreneur guy, guru trying to help you win online. So let's check out his video. This is my most brutally honest advice to my, you beat 99% of people zoomed out without media advice to my younger self and

Nick Clason (05:57):
How I, you're going to lose sleep. You'll doubt whether it'll work. You'll stress. He's catering to the difficulty of what he does and what the people that follow him need to do. He's got B roll, he's got light transitions, all that type of stuff. Great. Now this one right here, this is Churchill from Elevation Steven S check this one out sitting on that you're not using today. That's not the beginning of his sermon, but it's the beginning of this video. Arrows, you should have taken everything God gave you kept striking until you saw it to. They edited it so that it started there at what they considered to be the most interesting part, artillery to be defeated. It was his lack of drive. The reason I want to show all of you that is that the first 30 seconds or less of every single one of those videos, all very different, but all very good.

Nick Clason (06:56):
Everyone who edited that video knew exactly what they were doing. So I actually have a video that I just released on a platform called My Youth Men, which is a membership tier of YM 360. You can check it out, link in the description for a seven day free trial. But the video is about discipling students and teenagers through the usage pitfalls and platforms with cell phones as opposed to a way, and I show you those videos because I want to say that's what we as communicators are up against. Your students are watching those for entertainment, for fun, even maybe for inspiration with a Steven Furtick. And then you and I get up as their youth pastor and we start teaching at them in all of our old seminary taught ways. I think as I said in my video, that there are new ways of doing it.

Nick Clason (07:51):
In fact, this is a educator's tool. It's going to be up here on the screen. If you're listening to the podcast, make sure that you hit the link in the show notes so you can see everything on YouTube with all of our video overlays and all of our things flying in. But this is called the knowledge pyramid, and there are two sections to it. There's the passive teaching methods and then there's the participatory teaching methods. And most of us in church are using the passive teaching methods and the percentages are broken down by the knowledge retention rate. So how well this style of teaching helps people retain that type of teaching. And so the lowest at 5% is lecture based style. You might think 8.25 seconds is low, but I'm just going to admit to you, I am bored after a lecture after only 8.25 seconds.

Nick Clason (08:42):
You have to be really killing it, and I have to be really interested in that form of content. In the lecture style pyramid, 10% of the retention rate is reading, 20% is audio visual. So that would be something like including slides and or video in your teaching. And then 30% is demonstration. That's of the passive teaching style methods. So all of those things are all things that you've been taught probably in seminary of how to teach someone and how to maintain relevance as you teach someone. But then it shifts and at 50% a discussion group, a participatory teaching method is where that learning retention rate jumps up to 50%. If someone practices what they've learned by doing it, it jumps to 75% and then if they teach others, it jumps to 90%. So in most cases, us as youth pastors, we push our students through passive teaching methods, and then finally we get them into a discussion group As a participatory teaching method, discussion group is the lowest of the participatory section of retention, and that is why you and I as we are teaching, we need to differ at what we're doing. Look at what Mr. Beast did, how he looked at all the different houses, right? And he kept it moving. He was only on each house for just a few seconds. He was moving, he was garnering interest, he was keeping you hooked. Even look at fur, he's on the floor with arrows in hand doing his thing. Yeah, it was lecture style, but there's visuals to it. And in our youth ministries, more often than not, we're going to push people in to small groups, which is a relevant and meaningful participatory teaching method.

Nick Clason (10:32):
And so as we know and look at the different teaching pyramid styles, here is my question, what do we do? How do we infuse and use hybrid to help increase the retention rates of the learnings? Because you know that the message that you're teaching matters. It's a truth of God. It's a truth from God's word, and it's been put on your heart by him, and you're trying to help share that message with the students in which God has entrusted to you in your student ministry. So what do you do about it? I think that there are a couple of clues that we can learn from culture, even from some of those YouTube videos that we watch. And so that's what we're going to check out in the next section. Neil Bradbury has a quote. The link to that article is in the show notes. He says, the eight second myth, as he classifies it for attention spans is actually more related to human behavior on websites and on social media and how many seconds the average person spends on a website before clicking away or navigating off of it.

Nick Clason (11:39):
So we have famously dubbed Generation Z and Gen Alpha subsequently as the generation with the tension span lower than a goldfish. And that's true as it relates to social media and Mr. Beast and Alex Har Zi, and even Steven Fer and Elevation, they're trying to capture people's attention on social media. So they do have to make that happen within eight seconds. And we are up against that, I would say, as communicators because that's how students are spending a majority of their time. Gen Z's using their cell phone more than any other screen-based device combined. However, I want to point something out that is a website statistic. And so while that is true of websites, the attention span is a little bit longer because eight seconds is incredibly short. And check this out. Over the last however many years, these are the top five grossing box office movies of all time.

Nick Clason (12:35):
So in 2009, avatar came out, and I think it's even been supplanted by itself for the re-release or something like that, but Avatar, the movie is two hours and 42 minutes. Avengers End Game came out in 2019. Shout out to my favorite movie. I love you. 3000. It is three hours in one minute. I was nervous going into Avengers end game. I was like, I might have to pee. What do I do if I have to pee? And I did. Titanic in 1992 was three hours and 14 minutes. Star Wars episode seven, two hours and 18 minutes, and an Avengers Infinity War, the prequel to end game 2018, two hours and 29 minutes long. Movies are still making money, they're still making them, and they're still releasing them. Also, shout out to Disney for owning four of the top five of those properties. All that to be said though, if it weren't lucrative and if it weren't making money, Disney and the other major motion picture companies in America wouldn't be making movies at that length.

Nick Clason (13:43):
So what does that mean for us? We got this eight second thing, but now we got movies that are going longer than three hours. How do we reconcile the difference between those two? My contention is this, if it's good, people will pay attention. It's that simple. And here's the reality. Most research, including Ted Talk and that organization say that a sweet spot for lectures is anywhere from 10 to 15 minutes. That's optimal. However, if it's moving, if it's keeping attention, if it's changing things up, even just going back and watching Mr. Beast intro video, how if it's moving and adapting, you can keep the attention of your audience. But here's a gut check. If Avatar and Endgame and Star Wars and Titanic are keeping people's attention, but you're losing them after only eight seconds, then the gut check moment for you and I as youth pastors might be, we might be more boring than we think we are.

Nick Clason (14:46):
In fact, I've been recording videos on this YouTube channel for six months, eight months now, and that's been a gut check moment for me. When certain videos get less views, I'll go back, I'll look at the analytics and I'll go and re-listen to it myself. And you know what? I'll notice, man, I'm boring, right? I have to learn how to be more captivating. I have to learn how to be more interesting. I have to learn how to keep and retain my audience longer throughout the duration of my videos. Not only is that true for me as a communicator via YouTube via video to y'all, but it's also true for me as a youth pastor. But going back and looking, watching those videos, which by the way, if you are not prerecording your messages or recording them at all to go back and look and learn, you are missing out on the easiest way to become better as a communicator.

Nick Clason (15:31):
But there's another hack and there's another little silver bullet that's going to slide in here because we are going to be exploring three hybrid ideas in this digital frontier to enhance our messages in the room. Let's check it out. So what are these hybrid ideas? Like I said, it's not just physical. It's not just digital, but it's a melding of the two. So in my mind, you're teaching live in the room, but you're putting things on their cell phone or putting resources on their cell phone for them to use later because they're taking their cell phone with them for the other 165 hours beyond just the one hour that you've been in your program. And most of us as youth pastors, we're not good enough to contend with cell phones. So instead of contending with them, using them, leaning into them, we just forced them to lock them away or get rid of them.

Nick Clason (16:20):
But one of my favorite solutions from my favorite people over at Download Youth Ministry is sidekick. Check it out, sidekick TV link in the show notes. I get zero kickback from this, but I'm a power user and they just released or they're going to release and listen. I may be letting the cat out of the bag a little bit, but they're going to be releasing a polling feature. So you can put a QR code on the screen, students can scan it, and they can vote live time, and you can show it live from the stage. And better yet, you can now control sidekick from your phone or your iPad if you don't have a tech person running back in the back. And so you can do live interactive types of things to interact with your in-person and letting them use the digital means in front of them.

Nick Clason (17:08):
So you can ask like, Hey, what is the best Thanksgiving food? Is it stuffing mashed potatoes, pumpkin pie, Turkey or ham? Let us know. Scan this QR code, and then you can get live results from your audience. You also, just like the learning pyramid showed, in addition to your lecture style, you need to be bringing visual aid with it. Use your screens, use your multimedia to your advantage. Use the things that are common to your students, like memes and tos. You can even pull out things like, Hey, show the most interesting photo from your last week in your camera roll. And one of my all time favorite ways to be hybrid is any sort of call to action, a camp, sign up, a discipleship, sign up. Even now, the sidekick voting thing use QR codes. They've had a resurgence since the pandemic, but people now can scan QR codes with just their camera app and their phone.

Nick Clason (18:02):
It will pull a link up and boom, you are off to the races. Use QR codes to your advantage. Use sidekick, use digital media, use your screens to interact and make things hybrid. The next idea that I have for you is you version events in our space, we call them digital notes. And so we link our YouVersion live events. If you didn't know, YouVersion is the Bible app made by Life church, but they have a events portion. And so what happens is if someone is in your church, it will pull geographically all the events that are live and they can get in there and there can be notes. Your main points scriptures you Additionally, my favorite reason for it is you can create call to action. So you can put your camp signup, you can put a Bible reading plan so they can be on the digital notes.

Nick Clason (19:01):
They can be taking notes in the space in your room as you're teaching, as you're preaching. And then at the end, you can be like, and hey, if you are learning right now and enjoying this message about prayer, but you want to grow even deeper into prayer, then I have a seven day prayer challenge plan linked in the you version, in the digital notes, whatever you want to call it. And kids can click it on their phone and write their sign up for a Bible reading plan. It's a way to help foster discipleship to lean into the hybrid, right? You taught something, but now by just having notes available to them on their phone, you can say, Hey, click accept, and start reading that plan. The third idea that I have for you is use YouTube and use social media. In fact, in the links down below, I have a couple of things, a less than $100 YouTube setup for you to start doing messages similar to this one right here where you're sitting direct to camera and posting your messages to YouTube.

Nick Clason (19:59):
If you have live streaming capabilities, then do that. But if you don't, as a youth pastor, I get it. I don't either sit down, prerecord your messages. In addition to that, you can use a service also linked in the description called Opus Pro to then take your long form and clip it into short form and give yourself a bunch of social media content for the week. And if you then need something to help fill in some of the other gaps, that's where my surefire resource, my ebook, my 40 done for you ideas comes in. And that message can live in perpetuity online as you help answer the specific faith questions of this next generation. It can be more than just for students who miss. It can be for parents to check it out. It can be for students who don't even go to your church.

Nick Clason (20:43):
It can be for students who go to your church to share messages with friends if they would never bring their friends to church, they can share a message on YouTube with their friends. And so those are my three ideas, sidekick in digital media, you versions, digital notes, and finally, utilize and use YouTube and social media to your advantage. The final piece of this playlist is we're going to be exploring and talking about how do we care for students in an ongoing type of way. We meet with them once a week, but then there's 167 hours. How can we, in a hybrid way care for the students pastorally in the ways in which God has entrusted to us? That video is linked right here on the screen. Make sure you check it out. We're making digital discipleship easy, possible and accessible. So as always, and don't forget, stay hybrid.

]]> 🔥SURE FIRE RESOURCES TO LEVEL UP YOUR SOCIAL MEDIA GAME 🔥

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☝️ONE-CLICK SOLUTION FOR REELS & SHORTS
OPUS FOR AI SHORTS & REELS
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🧑‍🚀 EXPLORING NEW FRONTIERS PLAYLIST
Exploring The New Way to Approach Ministry, Full Playlist
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLngXlSr64YaLQ3UpL1HRb3FFtEu-7S1XZ

========================================

DESCRIPTION
Preaching, Teaching and Youth Ministry
It’s part of what we do in the church.

You’ve also heard that this generation, according to crossrivertherapy.com has an attention span of just 8.25 seconds. Which is 4.25 seconds LESS than we experienced in the year 2000.

Famously, that’s less than a goldfish

But teaching and preaching the Bible, is not only an integral part of youth ministry, but learning the Bible is important to the discipleship and developmental process, not only in teenagers, but in anyone who claims to follow Jesus Christ as their savior.

So how do we take the Hybrid approach to teaching and preaching.
Hybrid is not just your physical gathering
But not ignoring it in favor of your digital experience, either.

It’s both.

In this episode we’ll explore the how to preach and teach to a TikTok Generation.
What we’re up against.

What we can learn from culture

And finally, 3 Hybrid Solutions you can implement THIS Wednesday night.

churchattendance #hiddentruth #unveiling #2023 #church #truth #revelation #faith #spirituality #religion #worship #community #christianity #belief #sunday #sacred #divine #belief #sermon #christian

========================================

🆓 FREEBIES 🆓
📅 "1 Month Done for You Social Media Posting Tool"
https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/free-hybrid-ministry-e-book

😨 "Have I already Ruined my TikTok Account?"
https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/ebook

📹 "Adobe Premiere Pro Presets for Animating Layers"
https://share.hsforms.com/1VL1oWwWwQ82PLwsPFkPITgnumis

========================================
🛠️TOOLS
Some of the below links are affilate links in which we do recieve a small commission based on your purchase or use of products
//YOUTUBE STARTER KIT FOR UNDER $100
https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/youtubestarterkit

AUTO POD
https://autopod.lemonsqueezy.com?aff=MX7Vv

TRY REV.COM FOR TRANSCRIBING
https://rev.pxf.io/R5nDOa

OPUS.PRO FOR AI SHORTS & REELS

https://www.opus.pro/?via=a5d361

👉 STAY CONNECTED WITH NICK
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@clasonnick
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hybridministry/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@clasonnick
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HybridMinistry

Website: https://www.hybridministry.xyz

📓SHOWNOTES
//SHOWNOTES & TRANSCRIPTS
http://www.hybridministry.xyz/072

//View all the Charts and Graphs via YouTube
https://youtu.be/iIgEtxPLGBg

//Mr. Beast on YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCX6OQ3DkcsbYNE6H8uQQuVA

//Alex Hormozi
https://www.youtube.com/@AlexHormozi

//Steven Furtick
https://www.youtube.com/@stevenfurtick

//Research on Attention Spans
https://www.crossrivertherapy.com/average-human-attention-span
https://journals.physiology.org/doi/pdf/10.1152/advan.00109.2016

//My Youth Min by Ym360
https://myyouthmin.com/

//The Learning Triangle
https://www.educationcorner.com/the-learning-pyramid.html

//Solution #1
https://sidekick.tv/

//Solution #2
https://my.bible.com/events

//Solution #3
https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/free-hybrid-ministry-e-book
https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/youtubestarterkit

🕰️TIMECODES
00:00-01:36 Preaching to the Generation with the Shortest Attention Span in History
01:36-03:33 Teaching, Preaching and Hybrid Ministry is vital to the next generation
03:33-11:15 Teaching to a TikTok Generation
11:15-15:46 What can youth pastors learn from culture?

15:46-21:39 3 Immediate Hybrid Solutions

✍️TRANSCRIPT
Try Transcribing for Yourself at Rev.Com
rev.pxf.io/R5nDOa

Nick Clason (00:00):
Preaching teaching and youth ministry, they go together. It's just part of what we do. But what do you do when you're trying to preach and teach to the generation with the shortest attention span of only 8.25 seconds? Famously, you've heard it's less now than a goldfish down 4.5 seconds from the year 2000. And is there a way for us to digitally enhance through hybrid means the way in which people learn and listen to our teaching and our preaching now in this generation because teaching and preaching is not only an integral part of youth ministry, but it's an integral part of the way in which we disciple our students and help them understand the claims, values and teachings of Jesus. So how do we take this hybrid approach, not just digital, not just in person, but melding of the two together to increase awareness and to help bring about a better retention of our teaching and our preaching to our students.

Nick Clason (01:08):
In this episode, we will answer how to preach and teach to a tick talk generation and what we as communicators are up against. Additionally, we'll explore what we can learn from the culture that's around us. And finally, I want to offer for you three hybrid solutions to help engage and increase teaching and preaching and awareness in your context that you can implement tomorrow. Welcome to the Hybrid Ministry Show. Well, hey everyone. Welcome back to another edition of the Hybrid Ministry Show. I, as always am your host Nick Clason. I'm a 13 year youth ministry veteran now currently located in the DFW Dallas Fort Worth area. Excited to be with you. I've been teaching and preaching my entire career, but I've also been engaging with the importance of hybrid ministry. I've been aware of that and aware of the digital revolution ever since I started in youth ministry, which is why we have this playlist right here linked at the top of the screen that you're a part of as we are exploring new digital frontiers.

Nick Clason (02:12):
The last video was all about games and how we can implement hybrid into our games and into the fun in our youth ministries. And this episode is about enhancing the messages. So I hope that you'll stick around to the very end of the video because in addition to that, I have a sure surefire resource linked in the description below. That's not only going to help you win on social media and bring about your messages and all those things to your students and help bring that to them the other hours of your week, but it'll also help you have fun with them like we talked about in the last video. And so I want to encourage you to I you to subscribe. Those things are free for you and they mean a lot to me, and I want you to do that because we do drop resources, like I just mentioned, 40 done for you, an entire month's worth of social media, but not just a bunch of graphics.

Nick Clason (03:04):
This is you actually getting in front of the camera, getting in front of a video, using yourself, your students, your leaders, whoever you want to help change the game on your social media platform. And so those types of things are coming at you every single week. We'll drop a new episode every single Thursday, so like subscribe, can't wait to see on the other side, but hey, we are going to be diving into teaching to a TikTok generation. Let's explore that together. So famously, this generation has an attention span of 8.25 seconds. It said that that is less than the household goldfish. So I don't know if any of you guys have gold fishes or teenagers in your house, but if you do, your teenager has a shorter attention span than a goldfish. What is going on nowadays though is the short form video revolution ushered into us by TikTok during the pandemic has changed the way in which we engage with content online.

Nick Clason (04:07):
It just has our attention spans are getting shorter. The need and relevance for a really, really crucial opening section of your video is what is going to determine if someone sticks around in your video or if they're going to leave. In fact, I want to share with you three examples from three very different classes and creators and just like different pockets of YouTube, but all three very good, three people who know what they're doing on social media. And I want to point out to you, we're going to watch 'em right here live on screen. I want to react to how well their hook and how well their intro does. So the first one up is a Mr. Beast video. So let's check this out together.

Nick Clason (04:54):
Hundred million mankind, okay? He's just taught, he's just B roll. He's got Justin Timberlake on there. Whoa, got those waves with his editing's great all the way to this barely functioning house, more of a shed. Well, why does this house cost a dollar? Yeah, we get another storm. It's probably going to, he's already into the content now of his video. He's only 38 seconds in. It feels like the intro. It just seamlessly moves straight into the content. Mr. Beast is probably the best at the opening ones. This one is more of a entrepreneur guy, guru trying to help you win online. So let's check out his video. This is my most brutally honest advice to my, you beat 99% of people zoomed out without media advice to my younger self and

Nick Clason (05:57):
How I, you're going to lose sleep. You'll doubt whether it'll work. You'll stress. He's catering to the difficulty of what he does and what the people that follow him need to do. He's got B roll, he's got light transitions, all that type of stuff. Great. Now this one right here, this is Churchill from Elevation Steven S check this one out sitting on that you're not using today. That's not the beginning of his sermon, but it's the beginning of this video. Arrows, you should have taken everything God gave you kept striking until you saw it to. They edited it so that it started there at what they considered to be the most interesting part, artillery to be defeated. It was his lack of drive. The reason I want to show all of you that is that the first 30 seconds or less of every single one of those videos, all very different, but all very good.

Nick Clason (06:56):
Everyone who edited that video knew exactly what they were doing. So I actually have a video that I just released on a platform called My Youth Men, which is a membership tier of YM 360. You can check it out, link in the description for a seven day free trial. But the video is about discipling students and teenagers through the usage pitfalls and platforms with cell phones as opposed to a way, and I show you those videos because I want to say that's what we as communicators are up against. Your students are watching those for entertainment, for fun, even maybe for inspiration with a Steven Furtick. And then you and I get up as their youth pastor and we start teaching at them in all of our old seminary taught ways. I think as I said in my video, that there are new ways of doing it.

Nick Clason (07:51):
In fact, this is a educator's tool. It's going to be up here on the screen. If you're listening to the podcast, make sure that you hit the link in the show notes so you can see everything on YouTube with all of our video overlays and all of our things flying in. But this is called the knowledge pyramid, and there are two sections to it. There's the passive teaching methods and then there's the participatory teaching methods. And most of us in church are using the passive teaching methods and the percentages are broken down by the knowledge retention rate. So how well this style of teaching helps people retain that type of teaching. And so the lowest at 5% is lecture based style. You might think 8.25 seconds is low, but I'm just going to admit to you, I am bored after a lecture after only 8.25 seconds.

Nick Clason (08:42):
You have to be really killing it, and I have to be really interested in that form of content. In the lecture style pyramid, 10% of the retention rate is reading, 20% is audio visual. So that would be something like including slides and or video in your teaching. And then 30% is demonstration. That's of the passive teaching style methods. So all of those things are all things that you've been taught probably in seminary of how to teach someone and how to maintain relevance as you teach someone. But then it shifts and at 50% a discussion group, a participatory teaching method is where that learning retention rate jumps up to 50%. If someone practices what they've learned by doing it, it jumps to 75% and then if they teach others, it jumps to 90%. So in most cases, us as youth pastors, we push our students through passive teaching methods, and then finally we get them into a discussion group As a participatory teaching method, discussion group is the lowest of the participatory section of retention, and that is why you and I as we are teaching, we need to differ at what we're doing. Look at what Mr. Beast did, how he looked at all the different houses, right? And he kept it moving. He was only on each house for just a few seconds. He was moving, he was garnering interest, he was keeping you hooked. Even look at fur, he's on the floor with arrows in hand doing his thing. Yeah, it was lecture style, but there's visuals to it. And in our youth ministries, more often than not, we're going to push people in to small groups, which is a relevant and meaningful participatory teaching method.

Nick Clason (10:32):
And so as we know and look at the different teaching pyramid styles, here is my question, what do we do? How do we infuse and use hybrid to help increase the retention rates of the learnings? Because you know that the message that you're teaching matters. It's a truth of God. It's a truth from God's word, and it's been put on your heart by him, and you're trying to help share that message with the students in which God has entrusted to you in your student ministry. So what do you do about it? I think that there are a couple of clues that we can learn from culture, even from some of those YouTube videos that we watch. And so that's what we're going to check out in the next section. Neil Bradbury has a quote. The link to that article is in the show notes. He says, the eight second myth, as he classifies it for attention spans is actually more related to human behavior on websites and on social media and how many seconds the average person spends on a website before clicking away or navigating off of it.

Nick Clason (11:39):
So we have famously dubbed Generation Z and Gen Alpha subsequently as the generation with the tension span lower than a goldfish. And that's true as it relates to social media and Mr. Beast and Alex Har Zi, and even Steven Fer and Elevation, they're trying to capture people's attention on social media. So they do have to make that happen within eight seconds. And we are up against that, I would say, as communicators because that's how students are spending a majority of their time. Gen Z's using their cell phone more than any other screen-based device combined. However, I want to point something out that is a website statistic. And so while that is true of websites, the attention span is a little bit longer because eight seconds is incredibly short. And check this out. Over the last however many years, these are the top five grossing box office movies of all time.

Nick Clason (12:35):
So in 2009, avatar came out, and I think it's even been supplanted by itself for the re-release or something like that, but Avatar, the movie is two hours and 42 minutes. Avengers End Game came out in 2019. Shout out to my favorite movie. I love you. 3000. It is three hours in one minute. I was nervous going into Avengers end game. I was like, I might have to pee. What do I do if I have to pee? And I did. Titanic in 1992 was three hours and 14 minutes. Star Wars episode seven, two hours and 18 minutes, and an Avengers Infinity War, the prequel to end game 2018, two hours and 29 minutes long. Movies are still making money, they're still making them, and they're still releasing them. Also, shout out to Disney for owning four of the top five of those properties. All that to be said though, if it weren't lucrative and if it weren't making money, Disney and the other major motion picture companies in America wouldn't be making movies at that length.

Nick Clason (13:43):
So what does that mean for us? We got this eight second thing, but now we got movies that are going longer than three hours. How do we reconcile the difference between those two? My contention is this, if it's good, people will pay attention. It's that simple. And here's the reality. Most research, including Ted Talk and that organization say that a sweet spot for lectures is anywhere from 10 to 15 minutes. That's optimal. However, if it's moving, if it's keeping attention, if it's changing things up, even just going back and watching Mr. Beast intro video, how if it's moving and adapting, you can keep the attention of your audience. But here's a gut check. If Avatar and Endgame and Star Wars and Titanic are keeping people's attention, but you're losing them after only eight seconds, then the gut check moment for you and I as youth pastors might be, we might be more boring than we think we are.

Nick Clason (14:46):
In fact, I've been recording videos on this YouTube channel for six months, eight months now, and that's been a gut check moment for me. When certain videos get less views, I'll go back, I'll look at the analytics and I'll go and re-listen to it myself. And you know what? I'll notice, man, I'm boring, right? I have to learn how to be more captivating. I have to learn how to be more interesting. I have to learn how to keep and retain my audience longer throughout the duration of my videos. Not only is that true for me as a communicator via YouTube via video to y'all, but it's also true for me as a youth pastor. But going back and looking, watching those videos, which by the way, if you are not prerecording your messages or recording them at all to go back and look and learn, you are missing out on the easiest way to become better as a communicator.

Nick Clason (15:31):
But there's another hack and there's another little silver bullet that's going to slide in here because we are going to be exploring three hybrid ideas in this digital frontier to enhance our messages in the room. Let's check it out. So what are these hybrid ideas? Like I said, it's not just physical. It's not just digital, but it's a melding of the two. So in my mind, you're teaching live in the room, but you're putting things on their cell phone or putting resources on their cell phone for them to use later because they're taking their cell phone with them for the other 165 hours beyond just the one hour that you've been in your program. And most of us as youth pastors, we're not good enough to contend with cell phones. So instead of contending with them, using them, leaning into them, we just forced them to lock them away or get rid of them.

Nick Clason (16:20):
But one of my favorite solutions from my favorite people over at Download Youth Ministry is sidekick. Check it out, sidekick TV link in the show notes. I get zero kickback from this, but I'm a power user and they just released or they're going to release and listen. I may be letting the cat out of the bag a little bit, but they're going to be releasing a polling feature. So you can put a QR code on the screen, students can scan it, and they can vote live time, and you can show it live from the stage. And better yet, you can now control sidekick from your phone or your iPad if you don't have a tech person running back in the back. And so you can do live interactive types of things to interact with your in-person and letting them use the digital means in front of them.

Nick Clason (17:08):
So you can ask like, Hey, what is the best Thanksgiving food? Is it stuffing mashed potatoes, pumpkin pie, Turkey or ham? Let us know. Scan this QR code, and then you can get live results from your audience. You also, just like the learning pyramid showed, in addition to your lecture style, you need to be bringing visual aid with it. Use your screens, use your multimedia to your advantage. Use the things that are common to your students, like memes and tos. You can even pull out things like, Hey, show the most interesting photo from your last week in your camera roll. And one of my all time favorite ways to be hybrid is any sort of call to action, a camp, sign up, a discipleship, sign up. Even now, the sidekick voting thing use QR codes. They've had a resurgence since the pandemic, but people now can scan QR codes with just their camera app and their phone.

Nick Clason (18:02):
It will pull a link up and boom, you are off to the races. Use QR codes to your advantage. Use sidekick, use digital media, use your screens to interact and make things hybrid. The next idea that I have for you is you version events in our space, we call them digital notes. And so we link our YouVersion live events. If you didn't know, YouVersion is the Bible app made by Life church, but they have a events portion. And so what happens is if someone is in your church, it will pull geographically all the events that are live and they can get in there and there can be notes. Your main points scriptures you Additionally, my favorite reason for it is you can create call to action. So you can put your camp signup, you can put a Bible reading plan so they can be on the digital notes.

Nick Clason (19:01):
They can be taking notes in the space in your room as you're teaching, as you're preaching. And then at the end, you can be like, and hey, if you are learning right now and enjoying this message about prayer, but you want to grow even deeper into prayer, then I have a seven day prayer challenge plan linked in the you version, in the digital notes, whatever you want to call it. And kids can click it on their phone and write their sign up for a Bible reading plan. It's a way to help foster discipleship to lean into the hybrid, right? You taught something, but now by just having notes available to them on their phone, you can say, Hey, click accept, and start reading that plan. The third idea that I have for you is use YouTube and use social media. In fact, in the links down below, I have a couple of things, a less than $100 YouTube setup for you to start doing messages similar to this one right here where you're sitting direct to camera and posting your messages to YouTube.

Nick Clason (19:59):
If you have live streaming capabilities, then do that. But if you don't, as a youth pastor, I get it. I don't either sit down, prerecord your messages. In addition to that, you can use a service also linked in the description called Opus Pro to then take your long form and clip it into short form and give yourself a bunch of social media content for the week. And if you then need something to help fill in some of the other gaps, that's where my surefire resource, my ebook, my 40 done for you ideas comes in. And that message can live in perpetuity online as you help answer the specific faith questions of this next generation. It can be more than just for students who miss. It can be for parents to check it out. It can be for students who don't even go to your church.

Nick Clason (20:43):
It can be for students who go to your church to share messages with friends if they would never bring their friends to church, they can share a message on YouTube with their friends. And so those are my three ideas, sidekick in digital media, you versions, digital notes, and finally, utilize and use YouTube and social media to your advantage. The final piece of this playlist is we're going to be exploring and talking about how do we care for students in an ongoing type of way. We meet with them once a week, but then there's 167 hours. How can we, in a hybrid way care for the students pastorally in the ways in which God has entrusted to us? That video is linked right here on the screen. Make sure you check it out. We're making digital discipleship easy, possible and accessible. So as always, and don't forget, stay hybrid.

]]> Episode 067: 🔮 The Future of Church Youth Ministry 🔮 https://www.hybridministry.xyz/067 c032053a-5ddd-4408-9f40-377e41b1577c Thu, 19 Oct 2023 04:00:00 -0500 Nick Clason 067 🔮 The Future of Church Youth Ministry 🔮 full Nick Clason ⛪ In this episode of the Hybrid Ministry Show we want to explore the Future of Youth Ministry in the Local Church. We’re going to lean into the idea, and namesake of our show, and truly unpack the idea of: “Hybrid Ministry” 😡 Additionally, I’m going to answer the question: Does God Hate Social Media? 👌 And give you 3 Practical Tips that you can begin implementing into your student ministry space: TODAY 🔓The Church needs to unlock & unleash the next generation. They are the church of now. And Gone are the days of the one-size-fits all approaches to youth ministries. 🎨 It’s about learning and finding where youth people are, embracing diversity and creativity. 36:30 no 🔥SURE FIRE RESOURCE TO LEVEL UP YOUR SOCIAL MEDIA GAME 🔥 📅 "1 Month Done for You Social Media Posting Tool" https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/free-hybrid-ministry-e-book 🎥LEVEL UP YOUR YOUTUBE GEAR FOR UNDER $100 https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/youtubestarterkit DESCRIPTION ⛪ In this episode of the Hybrid Ministry Show we want to explore the Future of Youth Ministry in the Local Church. We’re going to lean into the idea, and namesake of our show, and truly unpack the idea of: “Hybrid Ministry” 😡 Additionally, I’m going to answer the question: Does God Hate Social Media? 👌 And give you 3 Practical Tips that you can begin implementing into your student ministry space: TODAY 🔓The Church needs to unlock & unleash the next generation. They are the church of now. And Gone are the days of the one-size-fits all approaches to youth ministries. 🎨 It’s about learning and finding where youth people are, embracing diversity and creativity. 🆓 FREEBIES 🆓 📅 "1 Month Done for You Social Media Posting Tool" https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/free-hybrid-ministry-e-book 😨 "Have I already Ruined my TikTok Account?" https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/ebook 📹 "Adobe Premiere Pro Presets for Animating Layers" https://share.hsforms.com/1VL1oWwWwQ82PLwsPFkPITgnumis 🛠️TOOLS Some of the below links are affilate links in which we do recieve a small commission based on your purchase or use of products //YOUTUBE STARTER KIT FOR UNDER $100 https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/youtubestarterkit AUTO POD https://autopod.lemonsqueezy.com?aff=MX7Vv TRY REV.COM FOR TRANSCRIBING https://rev.pxf.io/R5nDOa OPUS.PRO FOR AI SHORTS & REELS https://www.opus.pro/?via=a5d361 👉 STAY CONNECTED YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@clasonnick Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hybridministry/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@clasonnick Website: https://www.hybridministry.xyz 📓SHOWNOTES //SHOWNOTES & TRANSCRIPTS http://www.hybridministry.xyz/067 //BRACKETS https://www.downloadyouthministry.com/p/the-big-game-food-bracket/winter/the-big-game-8544.html https://www.downloadyouthministry.com/p/world%27s-greatest-donut/games/food-8745.html https://www.downloadyouthministry.com/p/the-student-ministry-bracket-of-epic-things/games-3974.html //SCULPT IT https://www.downloadyouthministry.com/p/sculpt-it/games/humor-8503.html //SOCIAL CHALLENGE PLAYLIST https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNYRk3l4M-4&list=PLFbsNmRvDjempodvm5FsqwakX6OidCd //SPIRITUAL RESOURCES https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/l6cp97ufmwn8gfpfkxbte/h?rlkey=s5hb09c6d6x1u9iqcdz5j1aya&dl=0 //DUCK, DUCK, TRIVIA https://www.downloadyouthministry.com/p/duck-duck-trivia/trivia-8705.html 🕰️TIMECODES 00:00-02:03 The Future of Church Youth Ministry 02:03-09:08 What does Hybrid Ministry mean? 09:08-17:29 The Biblical Basis for Digital Expressions of Church 17:29-29:48 3 Ways to Invest in your Online Presence 29:48-36:25 The Challenge of a Strong Digital Presence ✍️TRANSCRIPT Try Transcribing for Yourself at Rev.Com rev.pxf.io/R5nDOa Nick Clason (00:00): In this episode, we are going to be exploring the question, does God hate us using social media? We're also going to be looking at unpacking and exploring and talking about the future of the church and the future of youth ministry. And finally, we are going to help lean into this idea of hybrid ministry. What is it? How do we implement it? What are the downsides of it? And lastly, we are going to offer three practical tips to help you win in your church and in your student ministry. And as always, there will be game ideas because that's just a part of the thing. The church is at this crossroads where they need to look at unlock and unleash the next generation because the next generation is the church of today, not the church of the future. Gone are the days of the one size fits all youth ministries, and so we need to help explore and unlock for you what's going to work in your context. Nick Clason (01:03): It's about us learning diversity, creativity, and leaning into the individuality of each and every one of our students, and to help do that, to help lean into the creativity. This is why I believe that the digital space is such a great opportunity for us. In fact, I have a done for you resource if you are just kind of floundering and have no idea where to go, and that's what we talked about in this video that's going to be linked right here at the top of the screen, TikTok versus Instagram versus YouTube because we are going to help you navigate the best social media to go all in on your context as well as give you a free ebook that's linked right down here below in the description to help you navigate social media for your church and for your student ministry. But without any further ado, let's dive into this episode, the future of the church, the future of youth ministry, and what exactly is hybrid ministry. Nick Clason (02:02): Let's go. Well, hey everyone. Welcome to the Hybrid Ministry Show. If you and I haven't had a chance to meet yet, my name is Nick Clason. I am a almost 13 year youth ministry veteran, currently living and working in the D F W Dallas-Fort Worth area. And I am on a mission to help churches and youth ministries realize their potential for what they can do with digital ministry and in the digital space. In fact, that's why I have this entire podcast, this entire YouTube channel. In fact, if you didn't know, we are a podcast, so you can check out the show notes for link to our full transcripts@hybridministry.xyz, but you might be asking what even is hybrid ministry? What even does that mean? And it's a little bit of a made up word I would say, but the idea of a hybrid thing, I think about it as a football fan. Think about Teem Hill of the New Orleans Saints, right? He's a hybrid style player. He can play, Nick Clason (02:59): He can get under center, he can snap the ball and throw it, but he's also got some kind of tight end skills, some kind of H back type skills. Or as an old timey Colts fan, Dallas Clark was a great hybrid or H back style of player. He didn't fit into a one size fits all mold. And that's really my heart behind what I think hybrid ministry is another really great example. I've used it before, so if you're a long time listener, you've maybe heard it, but the idea of Home Depot when I am a customer, I am a customer of Home Depot and so if on any given Saturday I'm just feeling Super dad and I want to throw on my cargo shorts and my new balance shoes and just go peruse the aisles of Home Depot, I can do that. I can experience Home Depot in a physical sense. Nick Clason (03:47): However, at the same time, if I don't have time to do that and I just want to place an order online, I can jump on their app and I can do that as well. But the third option is probably my favorite is a hybrid relationship with Home Depot where I grab my cell phone, I download their app while I'm in the store, I search for the thing I need, it tells me the exact aisle and bay number and location of my thing and I can walk straight there. I have a digital relationship with Home Depot while I am physically in the store at the physical location. And I think in a lot of cases that's the way that our churches need to start just thinking about because in a lot of times, especially with Covid, we did not have the physical as an option. And so we all moved to digital and it was an amazing opportunity. Nick Clason (04:41): I think a lot of churches learned a lot. I think a lot of churches are still doing things now as a result of what happened during the pandemic, but now as restrictions have lifted and people have gone more and more back into church on a regular basis, churches have been like that stunk. Let's go back to what we know and there is so much value in what can happen in an interpersonal relationship. Please, I want you to hear that from me. I want you to know my heart, but I also believe that, I mean, you know this right there are 168 hours per week in any given week, but most churches really only focus on the one or two hours that you have a programmed scheduled event. It's like the evening news or it's, it's like sitcom appointment television. If you want to know what's going on in this series, then you better be here at 10:30 AM and that's the only time that you're ever going to know what we're talking about. Nick Clason (05:37): And honestly, let's be honest, churches, that is a really selfish and kind of vain approach. The only way for people to grow is to make your thing appointment calendaring in their life, and that's just not the world that we live in anymore. You're going to have people do that and because you do have some people do that, you think everybody should adopt that approach. Meanwhile, there are people who do want to grow in their faith and do want to have a relationship with you and your church. However, their schedule may not allow for it. Like I know this coming Saturday we are hosting a national day of youth ministry volunteer training by D Y M, shout out d y m, but the problem is my boys have their very first game of T-ball and so unfortunately my wife can't, as a super rockstar volunteer that she is, she's not going to be able to make a portion of that training. Nick Clason (06:29): Does that mean that she doesn't care about youth ministry and teenagers and her role in our church? Not at all. She's busy. She's got something else going on and so we always have to think and accommodate for that. And I think a lot of times churches are just like, you need to prioritize this. And that's true. Hearing me say that I believe that our people need to prioritize the things of God. However, I also believe that we are now in a time and in a space in 2023 and beyond where we can offer things to people that they can consume, that they can learn, that they can come to understand, that they can gather teachings about the importance of what our church is doing, what our church is offering in a hybrid type of moment. They have an in-person relationship with our church, but they can lean into the digital and I think a lot of churches are approaching digital as the outreach arm and that's really all it does. Nick Clason (07:24): And then once you've come and decided to commit to the church, then you have to shift to completely in person. And I just want to tell you, I don't live that way. I got a speeding ticket last week. It was awful. I was going way too fast in zone. That should have been a much faster speed limit, but it's a speed trap. And after paying a $346 yesterday, I had the option to call to go in person or to go online to remedy that. Guess which option I chose? Just like all of you, I chose the online option. If there's a way to do it where it can be more convenient and it doesn't hinder the relationship, and I think that's what we need to do. So hybrid, it's not just about in-person or it's not just about digital. It's about finding a way to marry those two environments so that people can have a holistic and much more robust relationship with your church. Nick Clason (08:24): Hey, listen, I hope you're getting value out of this video and we're going to continue on and we have all kinds of other videos like this, and so it would be incredible if you hit the subscribe button so that you get notified every single time we drop a video like this and listen, it costs you nothing but a really does help us out. So if you would like this video and maybe even share this along with a friend or someone else that you know who's a youth pastor or a church communications person because we are on a mission to help churches lean into the hybrid side of their ministry. But let's move on. Let's answer next question. Does God hate social media and what is there if, is there a biblical basis for leaning into digital and hybrid ministry? Let's check it out. So I know a lot of pastors, I know a lot of people, I know a lot of leaders who encourage people to lean away from digital media, social media as a means of discipleship and a means of growth. Nick Clason (09:23): And I think in a lot of cases that that's really a healthy practice for a lot of people. I think with unfettered, unfiltered access to just doom scrolling social media time and time and time and time and time again, which I actually didn't mean to turn. Oh look, there's me. I didn't mean to turn my phone on doing that, but when people just do that over and over and over again, I know that it is not healthy. There are some definite downfalls and some definite payrolls to doing that. However, I also know that I need this thing to keep track of my calendar. I need that thing to read email. I need that thing to track my receipts. I need that thing to get me somewhere in a turn by turn. G P SS navigation system. That thing right there is where my wife and Mike's grocery list lives. Nick Clason (10:14): It lives in a digital format on our phone that we both have access to like a shared list. And so this thing is going nowhere. And so instead of just coaching people to throw it in the fire and be done with it, while that may be what some people need to do, I think we also need to begin to think about how can we help coach people through having a cell phone? Yes, there are bad and evil things on cell phones. If you have a teenage boy, a teenage girl, the pitfalls of pornography and what is available to them in their pocket at any given moment is dangerous. However, that's not going anywhere for them and unless mom and dad want to rip that away from them, they are going to have a cell phone. So how do we help them walk through and wade through the difficulties of that reality while also realizing that in many cases this is a necessary commodity for most people in America in 2023 and beyond? Nick Clason (11:22): I do actually believe that the Bible speaks about this and one of my favorite kind of passages of it, obviously it's not directly talking about cell phones and digital media because that didn't exist, but the principle I do believe exists. So in Jeremiah chapter 29, which is everyone's favorite bookstore, Bible verse Jeremiah 29 11, we're going to read it here in just a second, but actually starting in verse five is where we're going to start reading so that you for perhaps the first time in your life can get to hear Jeremiah 29 11 in its full context. But Jeremiah is writing to the Babylonian people who are in exile in, or I'm sorry, he's running to the Jewish people who are in exile in Babylon. So God's people are in a foreign land and he addresses their concerns. Here's what he says. I want you to build homes. Nick Clason (12:16): I want you to plan to stay. I want you to plant gardens, eat the food that they produce, marry and have children, and then find spouses for them so that they may have many grandchildren. Multiply, don't dwindle away and work for the peace and the prosperity of the city where I sent you into exile. Pray to the Lord for it, for its welfare and it will determine then ultimately your welfare. Verse eight says, this is what the Lord of the heavens armies, the God of Israel says, do not let your prophets and fortune tellers, tellers who are with you in Babylon trick you do not listen to their dreams because they're telling you lies in my name. I have not sent them, says the Lord. This is what the Lord says. You'll be in Babylon for 70 years, but then I will come and do for you all the good things I have promised and I will bring you home again for I know the plans. Nick Clason (13:11): Here it is, guys. Verse 11, for I know the plans I have for you, says the Lord, the plans for good, not for disaster. To give you a future and hope. I think that what God is basically saying in this verse is he's saying, invest in the place in which I have placed you. And he's saying, embrace the things of the land, of the place of the climate, of the context of which I have placed you and to the Jewish people that meant plant gardens, intermarry, have children, have grandchildren, pray for the prosperity of Babylon because that will determine and dictate the prosperity of you and your life. And in a lot of the same ways, I believe that technology is the opportunity for us to enter into a digital landscape and a digital Babylon, so to speak. And so we have the chance to lean into it. Nick Clason (14:01): We have the chance to go towards what the people of our day are using and navigating, and we have the chance to redeem it. We have the chance to bring light into it. We have the chance to sprinkle in and even more than just sprinkle, but fully embrace and bring the great message of hope of the gospel into a digital and hybrid space. And most of the times, the pastors that I have interacted with are saying cell phones are bad and evil because most people have really bad habits with it. And so they're saying, so just don't do it. You don't need it. You don't need a digital Bible. Go get your paper Bible. I'm just saying, listen, if you're a youth pastor and you're ministering to a 13 year old who just got a new cell phone, that's really not going to play very well to them. Nick Clason (14:50): I'm not saying that we should just cater to people. Discipleship is difficult and often we get the root word discipline from it, and so it's going to require some hard and difficult conversations. But all that being said, we are not going to successfully push people away from it and just I, listen, I get it just because, oh, well, should we cater to bad habits? Absolutely not. But there's a lot of good that can happen on here. Right now, I play fantasy football through my cell phone because of fantasy football. I have connections with people that I have worked with in the past, my family who lives in three continents on this globe. We play fantasy football together and we connect through this. My church staff right now, we have 30 people on our church staff playing fantasy football that I am help kind of spearheading and leading, and that's helping bring about some comradery among our staff. Nick Clason (15:47): I read the Bible this morning on the Bible app through a plan that I subscribe to on my phone a lot of times when I don't have, and I read that on my iPad, and if I don't have my iPad, I will read it on my phone. One of my favorite apps on here is the Bible verse memory app, right? My point is that there's a lot of good that can happen through this, and I think we a lot of times want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. So let's lean in. Let's teach people how to navigate and make wise decisions and choices as they interact with digital and cell phone media. So the question that you're probably asking then if you're youth pastor, church communications person, is how do I invest in an online presence? What do I do? And I want to let you know before we dive into that, that if any of this is interesting to you, if any of this is ringing a bell, any of this is perking your interest that we have a website, hybridministry.xyz, and this episode is episode 67. Nick Clason (16:48): So if you go to hybridministry.xyz slash 0 6 7 link is also down below in the description along with my 43 ideas for how to lean into digital ministry. You can get full transcripts. That's one thing that we provide completely for free in every single episode in case you're out on a run and you're hearing this and you're like, dude, I need some of that. I need to take some notes and filter some of my thoughts around some of what we're listening to in this episode. Great, we got that for you. Link in the description, hybridministry.xyz/067, but let's explore and let's answer and tackle this question. How do you invest into your online presence? I have three ideas for you to help invest more into your online presence. One idea is just up your game in your social media and your digital media presence. Nick Clason (17:41): And so that can be all kinds of different things like your social media. Does that mean that your church or your student ministry has a pop Instagram account? I mean maybe, or is it that you launch a relevant YouTube channel maybe? Or is it that you're surfing on the TikTok trends out there on that app? TikTok could be, but whatever it is, there is an opportunity to weave in social media not only to your church attenders, but also to people out there in the world who don't know anything about you, your church or your student ministry. But my ultimate number one recommendation, especially if you're in youth ministry, and if not I still recommend this for a lot of churches, is YouTube. And what I actually have is a link in the description for how you can launch and start a YouTube channel for under $100, which by the way in 2023 is completely unheard of. Nick Clason (18:33): So you should definitely get in on that. But what it's going to do is it's going to help you utilize and start a channel simply using your cell phone upping and leveling up your game with some microphone gear and maybe some basic lighting to just get the ball rolling so that you can have a YouTube channel. And the reason why I believe YouTube is such a strong contender is especially if you're a youth pastor, 95% of teenagers claim to use and utilize YouTube. Meanwhile, people are getting on there and think about it, how do you engage and interact with YouTube? You probably hopped on there recently and said, how do I fix this clogged sink in my guest bathroom? Right? People are getting on there and asking specific questions, and while you may be trying to figure out how to unclog your sink, a 13 year old might be saying, why does God send good people like my grandmother to hell? Nick Clason (19:27): And you as a youth pastor have an opportunity to address and answer that particular and specific question. Now, tell me that that's not an amazing opportunity. We posted a video on our church's social media, our church's YouTube, the beginning of the school year called How to Ruin Your School Year. I think maybe we did the opposite of it, how to Not Ruin Your School Year, and it got like 150 views, and our audience is really not that big on YouTube. And I mean we have at least 150 students on our role and on our roster, but I know that not all of our students are subscribed to our YouTube are even really paying attention to our YouTube. So those 150 views did not all come from our students. My question is, would you like an opportunity as a youth pastor to have greater kingdom impact than you have currently right now in your local physical context? Nick Clason (20:21): Maybe the answer is no, but I would wonder why the answer to that would be no. Sure, you can't nuance and go as deep, dude, that was like a 12 minute video. I had enough ability to flesh things out and flesh out ideas and explain things fully and thoroughly that you might have to leave on the cutting room floor of say, a more short form vertical video-based TikTok or YouTube short or something like that. There is opportunity really there is out there to answer specific questions of teenagers. And YouTube is powered by Google the number one largest search engine of the world, and people consider YouTube to be the second largest search engine in the world. So put answers to the questions that people are going to the second largest search engine in the world in there, trying to get answers to big matters of faith and existential realities. Nick Clason (21:15): You have a chance to do that. And like I said, link in the description down here that will help you get your YouTube channel up the ground with just a minimal amount of gear talking head just like this video into a cell phone camera. The other idea, the third idea that I have for you are some hybrid based games if you're in youth ministry, the value of games. But one of my favorite things we do is brackets. So if March madness style, if you're a sports person, you got 64 teams, we'll do a 16 team bracket, we'll rank things kind of arbitrarily with our own sort of value-based ranking system. We have a platypus mascot in our student ministry and that was voted on competing against 16 other animals. So we had a yak and we had a lamb, which was a 16 seed, which almost won and upset the number one seed a lion. Nick Clason (22:11): We had a baboon on there, and what ultimately won was the platypus. I think that's the generation of Finn. And for talking one of my favorite brackets, I actually have a couple on download youth ministry. I'll put the link to those in descriptions if you want to go check 'em out or create your own. But we will do a Super Bowl food or big game day food bracket so that students can self-select what foods, what snacks are going to be at the Super Bowl party, and just a couple of weeks at the time of this recording. So probably by the time this drops, it'll be happening live. Feel free to go check it out at Cross Creek students. That's all of our handles on YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok, but we are going to be launching the world's greatest donut bracket, and it's going to be students selecting the world's greatest donut. Nick Clason (22:58): Here's the cool thing though. We just paid for, I don't know, a couple hundred dollars banner to be installed in one of our walls that we can reuse and replicate every single time we run a bracket. We'll probably do two or three of these a year where we can hang it in our physical space. So as students walk in, they'll see it, but then the push is for them to jump on Instagram and cast their vote, jump on social media and let it be known what they're going to be voting for. And so that's a way to be hybrid. We're talking about it, announcing it and making it a big deal in our physical space, and we're giving students even a chance to vote physically on a piece of paper, but then we're also pushing it towards digital media. Those things get a ton of traction in our context. Nick Clason (23:47): People talk about it, especially on staff people like which one won? How did you rank that one that it incites a little bit of faux riot. Okay. Another thing is we will do a lot of, we'll do some things called social challenges. I'll link the playlist that we do on that YouTube, but we will grab a couple of students every single Wednesday night, film them on camera, and then post that to YouTube. We'll clip it up into a short, and that'll be something that we can post on shorts as well, but that gives students a chance to compete in certain challenges or taskmaster type challenges. Again, that's a way to use the students in your physical space and promote and pump them up on your digital platforms. And other things you can do game wise is just create some sort of contest where there's a drawing contest or a sculpture contest or a dancing contest or whatever. Nick Clason (24:42): You can post those on social media and let people vote, cast their vote. Did you like A or B better, right? Like gingerbread houses or we'll do Plato sculpture things. I have a game on D y M called Sculpt It, and then we've done before. It's really fun. But we post all those on social media and then we let people cast their vote for the winner, and then the next time we get together the next week or that following Sunday, we'll give away a prize to the winning team or the winning table for their contribution in that game. Those are just ways to marry your in-person with your online and make it more hybrid. Make it last beyond the one hour a week that you have your students in your student ministry. Another idea, so that's just upping your digital presence game. And hey, like I said, link in the description for 40 ideas, 40 done for you ideas in vertical, vertical video based content like TikTok, YouTube shorts, Instagram reels that you can start adopting now. Nick Clason (25:39): And all of those ideas, by the way, are ideas that are recyclable. So for example, you can use the same, I just posted a game. We're calling it telepathy, but you can name it whatever you want to name it. I got it from some guys on YouTube shorts who call it wavelength, but one guy's thinking of a number and another guy's asking him for certain categories of things. So like the one I just posted, they asked for candy sport, clothing brand and day of the week, and then you give an item that is that number that's in your head. So my buddy was thinking of number three, and she said, candy, and he said, black licorice, which I think it's probably lower than a three if you ask me, but that's just me. And then she said, okay, how about sport? And he said, golf. Nick Clason (26:23): And then she said, okay, how about sport or athletic wear? And he said, new balance. And then she said, how about day of the week? And he said, Tuesday, she guessed that the number was four, but it was really three in his head, right? That's just a fun game. You can do a little bit of post-production editing if you want, even if you have no editing skills, you can do most of that on your cell phone to make that happen. By the way, I have a complete ebook, another one on how to post a TikTok from scratch. I'll also link that down below in the description. But all these are ways for you to just start taking steps to up your game and your social media. All right, the other idea, what about, so that's digital presence. What about web access, right? Is your website up to date? Nick Clason (27:03): That's all I'm asking. Is your website up to date? And there's this idea, do we push info to people or do we ask them to pull it for themselves? And I believe that we should do both, but I believe that you can push info, but people should always know that the answer to every single one of their questions lies on the website. So yes, send that Tuesday email reminding them about the fundraiser coming up on Saturday, but let them know that in the email, Hey, all this info is available on our website so that when Friday night rolls around and the mom and dad are thinking about how to get their kids where they need to go on Saturday, and they know that one of the kids is going to the fundraiser at church, they have to figure out where they are, what time they have to drop them off. Nick Clason (27:46): They don't have to go dig back through their email that they've gotten 125 other spam emails between Tuesday and Friday night. They can just go straight to your website. Is your church website up to date? Listen, people live in an on demand world. They're not relying on your email to give them the information that they need. They want to be informed, but then they also, they want to know or to go to get what they need information wise. So make sure your website is up to date. And then the third hybrid idea I have are just simply like individual tools. I'll link a few of these in the description down below. But in our student ministry, like I said, we did a video called Three Ways to Ruin Your School Year, and it was basically don't connect with God. And so in the reverse, we gave them three connections with God ideas, memorizing scripture, reading the Bible, and spending time in prayer. Nick Clason (28:46): And we created just a downloadable resource for them to use and utilize on their phone. It also pointed them and push them towards apps or YouVersion, Bible reading plans. So if you want to see some of those, you can check those out. But those are just ideas of things that you can help put in your student's hand. You can print physical copies if you want. You can also offer a digital version of it on your website or in an email download. And if you have an actual communications marketing department, you can put those behind Handshake websites where people have to put their name and email in, and you can use that to start building lists and things like that, which is a really good marketing practice. But if you don't want to know how to do that and you don't have a communications department, you can just put free resources on your website for people to grab, however and whenever. Nick Clason (29:35): But what about the challenge? What is difficult about doing this? I hear you on the other side of this video. Don't have time. No way I can do this. Great. We're going to address that in the next section. Look, I get it. This is a lot. And as I'm explaining this, you're like, bro, I don't have time to do any of this. I know it's a lot of work. In fact, there's a tension, an inherent tension that will lie when you choose to enter into a hybrid space. The best example I have is the church I worked at before here. I started out on the very first day of Covid. I don't recommend that as a strategy, but I dunno how any of you can avoid that if you're taking a new job. But because I started on the first day of Covid, the very first thing that I did that we did, that our church did, that our student ministry did was launch a YouTube channel. Nick Clason (30:23): Well, they already had a YouTube channel, but launch a YouTube show. We called it unscripted and most churches during Covid, it was a in-person programming, youth ministry replacement. And dude, it was innovative. It was one of a kind. I really did not see a lot of other churches doing a full on show direct to camera, not just camera in the back of the room. There was a lot of power behind it. There was a lot of creative team members, videographers, contractors that were working on it. But then, as you know, slowly covid started to kind of wind down in-person, became more and more of a thing, and we started having more and more students back on campus and back in the room, but unscripted didn't go anywhere. In fact, we wanted to let unscripted serve as the small group teaching element, teaching moment in multiple in-person small group meetings in various host home locations throughout the city that lent itself better for geography. Nick Clason (31:33): We were in a mega church, and so a lot of people drove many, many miles to our church. And so we could put houses 20 minutes away from the campus, but closer to where students lived. We could also offer groups on multiple days of the week as students are super, super duper busy. It was a really, really, and because Covid had ushered us into this moment, it allowed us the chance to sort of rethink and reinvent how we disseminated our teaching and got the Bible into the hands of our small group leaders and into the hands of our children. But more and more people were clamoring for on-campus stuff, especially in light of Covid. And so this tension between is this good for the show? Is this good for online? Is this good for YouTube versus is this what's best for in the room? Became this tension and ultimately became insurmountable to the point where the show got canceled. Nick Clason (32:25): Now, the downside, the real thing, the real rub you got to answer is we have kids sitting right in front of us every single week. Is YouTube the best strategy for those kids? That's probably got to be your number one priority, but the challenge is that there's going to be a tension between the online and the in-person constantly. And it's going to be so easy when it feels so insurmountable that you just say, forget it. I can't worry about the online anymore. I just got to focus on the in-person. And I don't necessarily have a formula or an answer for you, but what I do know is that there were some times where we did some things where we faced a challenge and we were tempted to just be like, you know what? Forget it. That's not the priority here. And we said, no, no, no, no, we're not going to do that. Nick Clason (33:19): We're going to lean in and we're going to figure this thing out. And so one of my favorite things, in fact, I have a game that sort of tried to mimic it. It's not as good though because it's not like a full on show with our youth pastors and our personalities, but it's called Duck Duck Trivia, and it's where you play duck, duck goose in a circle. But in the meantime, there's a trivia game happening on the screen. I have it on D y m, but we did a version of it with our show. And anytime you heard a squeak with one of the rubber ducks that we had, people had to get up and play duck, duck goose in the room while also paying attention to the screen and playing trivia. I created a sheet, a downloadable note sheet for them to keep track of and take notes of. Nick Clason (33:59): The point I'm making with all that is that there was a way to win in the room and win online, and it was epic. You know what I mean? But you got to spend more time and you got to think outside the box. You can't just throw a four corners game on the screen and be like, that's going to crush on YouTube. It just might not. The other challenge of it is just going to be a time constraints challenge, right? Digital media, video editing, graphic design soaks up a lot of time. And if you're a lone ranger, if you're a one man band, if you're doing this on your own, bro, I get it, you're going to be spending a lot of time on it. Again, the temptation is going to be to just throw it out, throw the baby out with the bath water, don't need it anymore. Nick Clason (34:42): But if you lean into it, you can find some good on the other side of the mountain there. The fact is, you just have to value it. Your church has to value it. Your supervisor has to value you spending your time on it and notice and point out and know that it is making a difference, even if it's not seen and felt immediately right away. And that's the, that's the third shadow side. You have to determine your win with this because the payoff for digital is not immediate. And you have to answer questions like, is this to reach outsiders? Is this to serve and help mature our insiders? What is the real reason behind this? But here's my thing, because of what Jeremiah said in Jeremiah chapter 29, I do believe we should invest in where we are. So I think out of this video, I'd love to encourage you, I'd even love to hear from you, comment below, but what's one next action step that you're going to take today? Nick Clason (35:33): Maybe it's just like, you know what? I'm going to stop just only posting announcement graphics to my Instagram. I'm going to start leaning in a little bit to an Instagram strategy. Maybe it's I'm going to launch a YouTube channel. Hit that link in description, a hundred dollars, YouTube starter kit, whatever the case might be, what is going to be your next step, but just start now. But listen, remember, grab my surefire resource 40 done for you ideas to help you just navigate this link in the description or in the show notes, hybridministry.xyz, and right here, this is why every single church needs a strong digital presence. I flesh it out, I explain it. I give you my strategy in this video. It's linked right here on the screen. Go check that out or go check out this YouTube playlist video teaching you how to start your YouTube channel from scratch. But we're trying to make digital ministry accessible, reachable possible, so don't forget, and as always, stay hybrid. The Future of Youth Ministry, Youth Ministry, Student Ministry, Youth Ministry Podcast, Hybrid Ministry, Youth Group Games, How to Grow Youth Youth Ministry, Ministry, Hybrid Church, Digital Ministry, Digital Youth Ministry, Social Media Ministry, Church Growth, Church Social Media, Digital Ministry Strategy, Digital Ministry Ideas 🔥SURE FIRE RESOURCE TO LEVEL UP YOUR SOCIAL MEDIA GAME 🔥

📅 "1 Month Done for You Social Media Posting Tool"
https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/free-hybrid-ministry-e-book

🎥LEVEL UP YOUR YOUTUBE GEAR FOR UNDER $100

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DESCRIPTION
⛪ In this episode of the Hybrid Ministry Show we want to explore the Future of Youth Ministry in the Local Church.
We’re going to lean into the idea, and namesake of our show, and truly unpack the idea of: “Hybrid Ministry”

😡 Additionally, I’m going to answer the question: Does God Hate Social Media?

👌 And give you 3 Practical Tips that you can begin implementing into your student ministry space: TODAY

🔓The Church needs to unlock & unleash the next generation.
They are the church of now.
And Gone are the days of the one-size-fits all approaches to youth ministries.

🎨 It’s about learning and finding where youth people are, embracing diversity and creativity.

🆓 FREEBIES 🆓
📅 "1 Month Done for You Social Media Posting Tool"
https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/free-hybrid-ministry-e-book

😨 "Have I already Ruined my TikTok Account?"
https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/ebook

📹 "Adobe Premiere Pro Presets for Animating Layers"

https://share.hsforms.com/1VL1oWwWwQ82PLwsPFkPITgnumis

🛠️TOOLS
Some of the below links are affilate links in which we do recieve a small commission based on your purchase or use of products
//YOUTUBE STARTER KIT FOR UNDER $100
https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/youtubestarterkit

AUTO POD
https://autopod.lemonsqueezy.com?aff=MX7Vv

TRY REV.COM FOR TRANSCRIBING
https://rev.pxf.io/R5nDOa

OPUS.PRO FOR AI SHORTS & REELS

https://www.opus.pro/?via=a5d361

👉 STAY CONNECTED
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@clasonnick
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hybridministry/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@clasonnick

Website: https://www.hybridministry.xyz

📓SHOWNOTES
//SHOWNOTES & TRANSCRIPTS
http://www.hybridministry.xyz/067

//BRACKETS
https://www.downloadyouthministry.com/p/the-big-game-food-bracket/winter/the-big-game-8544.html
https://www.downloadyouthministry.com/p/world%27s-greatest-donut/games/food-8745.html
https://www.downloadyouthministry.com/p/the-student-ministry-bracket-of-epic-things/games-3974.html

//SCULPT IT
https://www.downloadyouthministry.com/p/sculpt-it/games/humor-8503.html

//SOCIAL CHALLENGE PLAYLIST
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNYRk3l4M-4&list=PL_FbsNmRvDjempodvm_5FsqwakX6OidCd

//SPIRITUAL RESOURCES
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/l6cp97ufmwn8gfpfkxbte/h?rlkey=s5hb09c6d6x1u9iqcdz5j1aya&dl=0

//DUCK, DUCK, TRIVIA

https://www.downloadyouthministry.com/p/duck-duck-trivia/trivia-8705.html

🕰️TIMECODES
00:00-02:03 The Future of Church Youth Ministry
02:03-09:08 What does Hybrid Ministry mean?
09:08-17:29 The Biblical Basis for Digital Expressions of Church
17:29-29:48 3 Ways to Invest in your Online Presence

29:48-36:25 The Challenge of a Strong Digital Presence

✍️TRANSCRIPT
Try Transcribing for Yourself at Rev.Com
rev.pxf.io/R5nDOa

Nick Clason (00:00):
In this episode, we are going to be exploring the question, does God hate us using social media? We're also going to be looking at unpacking and exploring and talking about the future of the church and the future of youth ministry. And finally, we are going to help lean into this idea of hybrid ministry. What is it? How do we implement it? What are the downsides of it? And lastly, we are going to offer three practical tips to help you win in your church and in your student ministry. And as always, there will be game ideas because that's just a part of the thing. The church is at this crossroads where they need to look at unlock and unleash the next generation because the next generation is the church of today, not the church of the future. Gone are the days of the one size fits all youth ministries, and so we need to help explore and unlock for you what's going to work in your context.

Nick Clason (01:03):
It's about us learning diversity, creativity, and leaning into the individuality of each and every one of our students, and to help do that, to help lean into the creativity. This is why I believe that the digital space is such a great opportunity for us. In fact, I have a done for you resource if you are just kind of floundering and have no idea where to go, and that's what we talked about in this video that's going to be linked right here at the top of the screen, TikTok versus Instagram versus YouTube because we are going to help you navigate the best social media to go all in on your context as well as give you a free ebook that's linked right down here below in the description to help you navigate social media for your church and for your student ministry. But without any further ado, let's dive into this episode, the future of the church, the future of youth ministry, and what exactly is hybrid ministry.

Nick Clason (02:02):
Let's go. Well, hey everyone. Welcome to the Hybrid Ministry Show. If you and I haven't had a chance to meet yet, my name is Nick Clason. I am a almost 13 year youth ministry veteran, currently living and working in the D F W Dallas-Fort Worth area. And I am on a mission to help churches and youth ministries realize their potential for what they can do with digital ministry and in the digital space. In fact, that's why I have this entire podcast, this entire YouTube channel. In fact, if you didn't know, we are a podcast, so you can check out the show notes for link to our full transcripts@hybridministry.xyz, but you might be asking what even is hybrid ministry? What even does that mean? And it's a little bit of a made up word I would say, but the idea of a hybrid thing, I think about it as a football fan. Think about Teem Hill of the New Orleans Saints, right? He's a hybrid style player. He can play,

Nick Clason (02:59):
He can get under center, he can snap the ball and throw it, but he's also got some kind of tight end skills, some kind of H back type skills. Or as an old timey Colts fan, Dallas Clark was a great hybrid or H back style of player. He didn't fit into a one size fits all mold. And that's really my heart behind what I think hybrid ministry is another really great example. I've used it before, so if you're a long time listener, you've maybe heard it, but the idea of Home Depot when I am a customer, I am a customer of Home Depot and so if on any given Saturday I'm just feeling Super dad and I want to throw on my cargo shorts and my new balance shoes and just go peruse the aisles of Home Depot, I can do that. I can experience Home Depot in a physical sense.

Nick Clason (03:47):
However, at the same time, if I don't have time to do that and I just want to place an order online, I can jump on their app and I can do that as well. But the third option is probably my favorite is a hybrid relationship with Home Depot where I grab my cell phone, I download their app while I'm in the store, I search for the thing I need, it tells me the exact aisle and bay number and location of my thing and I can walk straight there. I have a digital relationship with Home Depot while I am physically in the store at the physical location. And I think in a lot of cases that's the way that our churches need to start just thinking about because in a lot of times, especially with Covid, we did not have the physical as an option. And so we all moved to digital and it was an amazing opportunity.

Nick Clason (04:41):
I think a lot of churches learned a lot. I think a lot of churches are still doing things now as a result of what happened during the pandemic, but now as restrictions have lifted and people have gone more and more back into church on a regular basis, churches have been like that stunk. Let's go back to what we know and there is so much value in what can happen in an interpersonal relationship. Please, I want you to hear that from me. I want you to know my heart, but I also believe that, I mean, you know this right there are 168 hours per week in any given week, but most churches really only focus on the one or two hours that you have a programmed scheduled event. It's like the evening news or it's, it's like sitcom appointment television. If you want to know what's going on in this series, then you better be here at 10:30 AM and that's the only time that you're ever going to know what we're talking about.

Nick Clason (05:37):
And honestly, let's be honest, churches, that is a really selfish and kind of vain approach. The only way for people to grow is to make your thing appointment calendaring in their life, and that's just not the world that we live in anymore. You're going to have people do that and because you do have some people do that, you think everybody should adopt that approach. Meanwhile, there are people who do want to grow in their faith and do want to have a relationship with you and your church. However, their schedule may not allow for it. Like I know this coming Saturday we are hosting a national day of youth ministry volunteer training by D Y M, shout out d y m, but the problem is my boys have their very first game of T-ball and so unfortunately my wife can't, as a super rockstar volunteer that she is, she's not going to be able to make a portion of that training.

Nick Clason (06:29):
Does that mean that she doesn't care about youth ministry and teenagers and her role in our church? Not at all. She's busy. She's got something else going on and so we always have to think and accommodate for that. And I think a lot of times churches are just like, you need to prioritize this. And that's true. Hearing me say that I believe that our people need to prioritize the things of God. However, I also believe that we are now in a time and in a space in 2023 and beyond where we can offer things to people that they can consume, that they can learn, that they can come to understand, that they can gather teachings about the importance of what our church is doing, what our church is offering in a hybrid type of moment. They have an in-person relationship with our church, but they can lean into the digital and I think a lot of churches are approaching digital as the outreach arm and that's really all it does.

Nick Clason (07:24):
And then once you've come and decided to commit to the church, then you have to shift to completely in person. And I just want to tell you, I don't live that way. I got a speeding ticket last week. It was awful. I was going way too fast in zone. That should have been a much faster speed limit, but it's a speed trap. And after paying a $346 yesterday, I had the option to call to go in person or to go online to remedy that. Guess which option I chose? Just like all of you, I chose the online option. If there's a way to do it where it can be more convenient and it doesn't hinder the relationship, and I think that's what we need to do. So hybrid, it's not just about in-person or it's not just about digital. It's about finding a way to marry those two environments so that people can have a holistic and much more robust relationship with your church.

Nick Clason (08:24):
Hey, listen, I hope you're getting value out of this video and we're going to continue on and we have all kinds of other videos like this, and so it would be incredible if you hit the subscribe button so that you get notified every single time we drop a video like this and listen, it costs you nothing but a really does help us out. So if you would like this video and maybe even share this along with a friend or someone else that you know who's a youth pastor or a church communications person because we are on a mission to help churches lean into the hybrid side of their ministry. But let's move on. Let's answer next question. Does God hate social media and what is there if, is there a biblical basis for leaning into digital and hybrid ministry? Let's check it out. So I know a lot of pastors, I know a lot of people, I know a lot of leaders who encourage people to lean away from digital media, social media as a means of discipleship and a means of growth.

Nick Clason (09:23):
And I think in a lot of cases that that's really a healthy practice for a lot of people. I think with unfettered, unfiltered access to just doom scrolling social media time and time and time and time and time again, which I actually didn't mean to turn. Oh look, there's me. I didn't mean to turn my phone on doing that, but when people just do that over and over and over again, I know that it is not healthy. There are some definite downfalls and some definite payrolls to doing that. However, I also know that I need this thing to keep track of my calendar. I need that thing to read email. I need that thing to track my receipts. I need that thing to get me somewhere in a turn by turn. G P SS navigation system. That thing right there is where my wife and Mike's grocery list lives.

Nick Clason (10:14):
It lives in a digital format on our phone that we both have access to like a shared list. And so this thing is going nowhere. And so instead of just coaching people to throw it in the fire and be done with it, while that may be what some people need to do, I think we also need to begin to think about how can we help coach people through having a cell phone? Yes, there are bad and evil things on cell phones. If you have a teenage boy, a teenage girl, the pitfalls of pornography and what is available to them in their pocket at any given moment is dangerous. However, that's not going anywhere for them and unless mom and dad want to rip that away from them, they are going to have a cell phone. So how do we help them walk through and wade through the difficulties of that reality while also realizing that in many cases this is a necessary commodity for most people in America in 2023 and beyond?

Nick Clason (11:22):
I do actually believe that the Bible speaks about this and one of my favorite kind of passages of it, obviously it's not directly talking about cell phones and digital media because that didn't exist, but the principle I do believe exists. So in Jeremiah chapter 29, which is everyone's favorite bookstore, Bible verse Jeremiah 29 11, we're going to read it here in just a second, but actually starting in verse five is where we're going to start reading so that you for perhaps the first time in your life can get to hear Jeremiah 29 11 in its full context. But Jeremiah is writing to the Babylonian people who are in exile in, or I'm sorry, he's running to the Jewish people who are in exile in Babylon. So God's people are in a foreign land and he addresses their concerns. Here's what he says. I want you to build homes.

Nick Clason (12:16):
I want you to plan to stay. I want you to plant gardens, eat the food that they produce, marry and have children, and then find spouses for them so that they may have many grandchildren. Multiply, don't dwindle away and work for the peace and the prosperity of the city where I sent you into exile. Pray to the Lord for it, for its welfare and it will determine then ultimately your welfare. Verse eight says, this is what the Lord of the heavens armies, the God of Israel says, do not let your prophets and fortune tellers, tellers who are with you in Babylon trick you do not listen to their dreams because they're telling you lies in my name. I have not sent them, says the Lord. This is what the Lord says. You'll be in Babylon for 70 years, but then I will come and do for you all the good things I have promised and I will bring you home again for I know the plans.

Nick Clason (13:11):
Here it is, guys. Verse 11, for I know the plans I have for you, says the Lord, the plans for good, not for disaster. To give you a future and hope. I think that what God is basically saying in this verse is he's saying, invest in the place in which I have placed you. And he's saying, embrace the things of the land, of the place of the climate, of the context of which I have placed you and to the Jewish people that meant plant gardens, intermarry, have children, have grandchildren, pray for the prosperity of Babylon because that will determine and dictate the prosperity of you and your life. And in a lot of the same ways, I believe that technology is the opportunity for us to enter into a digital landscape and a digital Babylon, so to speak. And so we have the chance to lean into it.

Nick Clason (14:01):
We have the chance to go towards what the people of our day are using and navigating, and we have the chance to redeem it. We have the chance to bring light into it. We have the chance to sprinkle in and even more than just sprinkle, but fully embrace and bring the great message of hope of the gospel into a digital and hybrid space. And most of the times, the pastors that I have interacted with are saying cell phones are bad and evil because most people have really bad habits with it. And so they're saying, so just don't do it. You don't need it. You don't need a digital Bible. Go get your paper Bible. I'm just saying, listen, if you're a youth pastor and you're ministering to a 13 year old who just got a new cell phone, that's really not going to play very well to them.

Nick Clason (14:50):
I'm not saying that we should just cater to people. Discipleship is difficult and often we get the root word discipline from it, and so it's going to require some hard and difficult conversations. But all that being said, we are not going to successfully push people away from it and just I, listen, I get it just because, oh, well, should we cater to bad habits? Absolutely not. But there's a lot of good that can happen on here. Right now, I play fantasy football through my cell phone because of fantasy football. I have connections with people that I have worked with in the past, my family who lives in three continents on this globe. We play fantasy football together and we connect through this. My church staff right now, we have 30 people on our church staff playing fantasy football that I am help kind of spearheading and leading, and that's helping bring about some comradery among our staff.

Nick Clason (15:47):
I read the Bible this morning on the Bible app through a plan that I subscribe to on my phone a lot of times when I don't have, and I read that on my iPad, and if I don't have my iPad, I will read it on my phone. One of my favorite apps on here is the Bible verse memory app, right? My point is that there's a lot of good that can happen through this, and I think we a lot of times want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. So let's lean in. Let's teach people how to navigate and make wise decisions and choices as they interact with digital and cell phone media. So the question that you're probably asking then if you're youth pastor, church communications person, is how do I invest in an online presence? What do I do? And I want to let you know before we dive into that, that if any of this is interesting to you, if any of this is ringing a bell, any of this is perking your interest that we have a website, hybridministry.xyz, and this episode is episode 67.

Nick Clason (16:48):
So if you go to hybridministry.xyz slash 0 6 7 link is also down below in the description along with my 43 ideas for how to lean into digital ministry. You can get full transcripts. That's one thing that we provide completely for free in every single episode in case you're out on a run and you're hearing this and you're like, dude, I need some of that. I need to take some notes and filter some of my thoughts around some of what we're listening to in this episode. Great, we got that for you. Link in the description, hybridministry.xyz/067, but let's explore and let's answer and tackle this question. How do you invest into your online presence? I have three ideas for you to help invest more into your online presence. One idea is just up your game in your social media and your digital media presence.

Nick Clason (17:41):
And so that can be all kinds of different things like your social media. Does that mean that your church or your student ministry has a pop Instagram account? I mean maybe, or is it that you launch a relevant YouTube channel maybe? Or is it that you're surfing on the TikTok trends out there on that app? TikTok could be, but whatever it is, there is an opportunity to weave in social media not only to your church attenders, but also to people out there in the world who don't know anything about you, your church or your student ministry. But my ultimate number one recommendation, especially if you're in youth ministry, and if not I still recommend this for a lot of churches, is YouTube. And what I actually have is a link in the description for how you can launch and start a YouTube channel for under $100, which by the way in 2023 is completely unheard of.

Nick Clason (18:33):
So you should definitely get in on that. But what it's going to do is it's going to help you utilize and start a channel simply using your cell phone upping and leveling up your game with some microphone gear and maybe some basic lighting to just get the ball rolling so that you can have a YouTube channel. And the reason why I believe YouTube is such a strong contender is especially if you're a youth pastor, 95% of teenagers claim to use and utilize YouTube. Meanwhile, people are getting on there and think about it, how do you engage and interact with YouTube? You probably hopped on there recently and said, how do I fix this clogged sink in my guest bathroom? Right? People are getting on there and asking specific questions, and while you may be trying to figure out how to unclog your sink, a 13 year old might be saying, why does God send good people like my grandmother to hell?

Nick Clason (19:27):
And you as a youth pastor have an opportunity to address and answer that particular and specific question. Now, tell me that that's not an amazing opportunity. We posted a video on our church's social media, our church's YouTube, the beginning of the school year called How to Ruin Your School Year. I think maybe we did the opposite of it, how to Not Ruin Your School Year, and it got like 150 views, and our audience is really not that big on YouTube. And I mean we have at least 150 students on our role and on our roster, but I know that not all of our students are subscribed to our YouTube are even really paying attention to our YouTube. So those 150 views did not all come from our students. My question is, would you like an opportunity as a youth pastor to have greater kingdom impact than you have currently right now in your local physical context?

Nick Clason (20:21):
Maybe the answer is no, but I would wonder why the answer to that would be no. Sure, you can't nuance and go as deep, dude, that was like a 12 minute video. I had enough ability to flesh things out and flesh out ideas and explain things fully and thoroughly that you might have to leave on the cutting room floor of say, a more short form vertical video-based TikTok or YouTube short or something like that. There is opportunity really there is out there to answer specific questions of teenagers. And YouTube is powered by Google the number one largest search engine of the world, and people consider YouTube to be the second largest search engine in the world. So put answers to the questions that people are going to the second largest search engine in the world in there, trying to get answers to big matters of faith and existential realities.

Nick Clason (21:15):
You have a chance to do that. And like I said, link in the description down here that will help you get your YouTube channel up the ground with just a minimal amount of gear talking head just like this video into a cell phone camera. The other idea, the third idea that I have for you are some hybrid based games if you're in youth ministry, the value of games. But one of my favorite things we do is brackets. So if March madness style, if you're a sports person, you got 64 teams, we'll do a 16 team bracket, we'll rank things kind of arbitrarily with our own sort of value-based ranking system. We have a platypus mascot in our student ministry and that was voted on competing against 16 other animals. So we had a yak and we had a lamb, which was a 16 seed, which almost won and upset the number one seed a lion.

Nick Clason (22:11):
We had a baboon on there, and what ultimately won was the platypus. I think that's the generation of Finn. And for talking one of my favorite brackets, I actually have a couple on download youth ministry. I'll put the link to those in descriptions if you want to go check 'em out or create your own. But we will do a Super Bowl food or big game day food bracket so that students can self-select what foods, what snacks are going to be at the Super Bowl party, and just a couple of weeks at the time of this recording. So probably by the time this drops, it'll be happening live. Feel free to go check it out at Cross Creek students. That's all of our handles on YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok, but we are going to be launching the world's greatest donut bracket, and it's going to be students selecting the world's greatest donut.

Nick Clason (22:58):
Here's the cool thing though. We just paid for, I don't know, a couple hundred dollars banner to be installed in one of our walls that we can reuse and replicate every single time we run a bracket. We'll probably do two or three of these a year where we can hang it in our physical space. So as students walk in, they'll see it, but then the push is for them to jump on Instagram and cast their vote, jump on social media and let it be known what they're going to be voting for. And so that's a way to be hybrid. We're talking about it, announcing it and making it a big deal in our physical space, and we're giving students even a chance to vote physically on a piece of paper, but then we're also pushing it towards digital media. Those things get a ton of traction in our context.

Nick Clason (23:47):
People talk about it, especially on staff people like which one won? How did you rank that one that it incites a little bit of faux riot. Okay. Another thing is we will do a lot of, we'll do some things called social challenges. I'll link the playlist that we do on that YouTube, but we will grab a couple of students every single Wednesday night, film them on camera, and then post that to YouTube. We'll clip it up into a short, and that'll be something that we can post on shorts as well, but that gives students a chance to compete in certain challenges or taskmaster type challenges. Again, that's a way to use the students in your physical space and promote and pump them up on your digital platforms. And other things you can do game wise is just create some sort of contest where there's a drawing contest or a sculpture contest or a dancing contest or whatever.

Nick Clason (24:42):
You can post those on social media and let people vote, cast their vote. Did you like A or B better, right? Like gingerbread houses or we'll do Plato sculpture things. I have a game on D y M called Sculpt It, and then we've done before. It's really fun. But we post all those on social media and then we let people cast their vote for the winner, and then the next time we get together the next week or that following Sunday, we'll give away a prize to the winning team or the winning table for their contribution in that game. Those are just ways to marry your in-person with your online and make it more hybrid. Make it last beyond the one hour a week that you have your students in your student ministry. Another idea, so that's just upping your digital presence game. And hey, like I said, link in the description for 40 ideas, 40 done for you ideas in vertical, vertical video based content like TikTok, YouTube shorts, Instagram reels that you can start adopting now.

Nick Clason (25:39):
And all of those ideas, by the way, are ideas that are recyclable. So for example, you can use the same, I just posted a game. We're calling it telepathy, but you can name it whatever you want to name it. I got it from some guys on YouTube shorts who call it wavelength, but one guy's thinking of a number and another guy's asking him for certain categories of things. So like the one I just posted, they asked for candy sport, clothing brand and day of the week, and then you give an item that is that number that's in your head. So my buddy was thinking of number three, and she said, candy, and he said, black licorice, which I think it's probably lower than a three if you ask me, but that's just me. And then she said, okay, how about sport? And he said, golf.

Nick Clason (26:23):
And then she said, okay, how about sport or athletic wear? And he said, new balance. And then she said, how about day of the week? And he said, Tuesday, she guessed that the number was four, but it was really three in his head, right? That's just a fun game. You can do a little bit of post-production editing if you want, even if you have no editing skills, you can do most of that on your cell phone to make that happen. By the way, I have a complete ebook, another one on how to post a TikTok from scratch. I'll also link that down below in the description. But all these are ways for you to just start taking steps to up your game and your social media. All right, the other idea, what about, so that's digital presence. What about web access, right? Is your website up to date?

Nick Clason (27:03):
That's all I'm asking. Is your website up to date? And there's this idea, do we push info to people or do we ask them to pull it for themselves? And I believe that we should do both, but I believe that you can push info, but people should always know that the answer to every single one of their questions lies on the website. So yes, send that Tuesday email reminding them about the fundraiser coming up on Saturday, but let them know that in the email, Hey, all this info is available on our website so that when Friday night rolls around and the mom and dad are thinking about how to get their kids where they need to go on Saturday, and they know that one of the kids is going to the fundraiser at church, they have to figure out where they are, what time they have to drop them off.

Nick Clason (27:46):
They don't have to go dig back through their email that they've gotten 125 other spam emails between Tuesday and Friday night. They can just go straight to your website. Is your church website up to date? Listen, people live in an on demand world. They're not relying on your email to give them the information that they need. They want to be informed, but then they also, they want to know or to go to get what they need information wise. So make sure your website is up to date. And then the third hybrid idea I have are just simply like individual tools. I'll link a few of these in the description down below. But in our student ministry, like I said, we did a video called Three Ways to Ruin Your School Year, and it was basically don't connect with God. And so in the reverse, we gave them three connections with God ideas, memorizing scripture, reading the Bible, and spending time in prayer.

Nick Clason (28:46):
And we created just a downloadable resource for them to use and utilize on their phone. It also pointed them and push them towards apps or YouVersion, Bible reading plans. So if you want to see some of those, you can check those out. But those are just ideas of things that you can help put in your student's hand. You can print physical copies if you want. You can also offer a digital version of it on your website or in an email download. And if you have an actual communications marketing department, you can put those behind Handshake websites where people have to put their name and email in, and you can use that to start building lists and things like that, which is a really good marketing practice. But if you don't want to know how to do that and you don't have a communications department, you can just put free resources on your website for people to grab, however and whenever.

Nick Clason (29:35):
But what about the challenge? What is difficult about doing this? I hear you on the other side of this video. Don't have time. No way I can do this. Great. We're going to address that in the next section. Look, I get it. This is a lot. And as I'm explaining this, you're like, bro, I don't have time to do any of this. I know it's a lot of work. In fact, there's a tension, an inherent tension that will lie when you choose to enter into a hybrid space. The best example I have is the church I worked at before here. I started out on the very first day of Covid. I don't recommend that as a strategy, but I dunno how any of you can avoid that if you're taking a new job. But because I started on the first day of Covid, the very first thing that I did that we did, that our church did, that our student ministry did was launch a YouTube channel.

Nick Clason (30:23):
Well, they already had a YouTube channel, but launch a YouTube show. We called it unscripted and most churches during Covid, it was a in-person programming, youth ministry replacement. And dude, it was innovative. It was one of a kind. I really did not see a lot of other churches doing a full on show direct to camera, not just camera in the back of the room. There was a lot of power behind it. There was a lot of creative team members, videographers, contractors that were working on it. But then, as you know, slowly covid started to kind of wind down in-person, became more and more of a thing, and we started having more and more students back on campus and back in the room, but unscripted didn't go anywhere. In fact, we wanted to let unscripted serve as the small group teaching element, teaching moment in multiple in-person small group meetings in various host home locations throughout the city that lent itself better for geography.

Nick Clason (31:33):
We were in a mega church, and so a lot of people drove many, many miles to our church. And so we could put houses 20 minutes away from the campus, but closer to where students lived. We could also offer groups on multiple days of the week as students are super, super duper busy. It was a really, really, and because Covid had ushered us into this moment, it allowed us the chance to sort of rethink and reinvent how we disseminated our teaching and got the Bible into the hands of our small group leaders and into the hands of our children. But more and more people were clamoring for on-campus stuff, especially in light of Covid. And so this tension between is this good for the show? Is this good for online? Is this good for YouTube versus is this what's best for in the room? Became this tension and ultimately became insurmountable to the point where the show got canceled.

Nick Clason (32:25):
Now, the downside, the real thing, the real rub you got to answer is we have kids sitting right in front of us every single week. Is YouTube the best strategy for those kids? That's probably got to be your number one priority, but the challenge is that there's going to be a tension between the online and the in-person constantly. And it's going to be so easy when it feels so insurmountable that you just say, forget it. I can't worry about the online anymore. I just got to focus on the in-person. And I don't necessarily have a formula or an answer for you, but what I do know is that there were some times where we did some things where we faced a challenge and we were tempted to just be like, you know what? Forget it. That's not the priority here. And we said, no, no, no, no, we're not going to do that.

Nick Clason (33:19):
We're going to lean in and we're going to figure this thing out. And so one of my favorite things, in fact, I have a game that sort of tried to mimic it. It's not as good though because it's not like a full on show with our youth pastors and our personalities, but it's called Duck Duck Trivia, and it's where you play duck, duck goose in a circle. But in the meantime, there's a trivia game happening on the screen. I have it on D y m, but we did a version of it with our show. And anytime you heard a squeak with one of the rubber ducks that we had, people had to get up and play duck, duck goose in the room while also paying attention to the screen and playing trivia. I created a sheet, a downloadable note sheet for them to keep track of and take notes of.

Nick Clason (33:59):
The point I'm making with all that is that there was a way to win in the room and win online, and it was epic. You know what I mean? But you got to spend more time and you got to think outside the box. You can't just throw a four corners game on the screen and be like, that's going to crush on YouTube. It just might not. The other challenge of it is just going to be a time constraints challenge, right? Digital media, video editing, graphic design soaks up a lot of time. And if you're a lone ranger, if you're a one man band, if you're doing this on your own, bro, I get it, you're going to be spending a lot of time on it. Again, the temptation is going to be to just throw it out, throw the baby out with the bath water, don't need it anymore.

Nick Clason (34:42):
But if you lean into it, you can find some good on the other side of the mountain there. The fact is, you just have to value it. Your church has to value it. Your supervisor has to value you spending your time on it and notice and point out and know that it is making a difference, even if it's not seen and felt immediately right away. And that's the, that's the third shadow side. You have to determine your win with this because the payoff for digital is not immediate. And you have to answer questions like, is this to reach outsiders? Is this to serve and help mature our insiders? What is the real reason behind this? But here's my thing, because of what Jeremiah said in Jeremiah chapter 29, I do believe we should invest in where we are. So I think out of this video, I'd love to encourage you, I'd even love to hear from you, comment below, but what's one next action step that you're going to take today?

Nick Clason (35:33):
Maybe it's just like, you know what? I'm going to stop just only posting announcement graphics to my Instagram. I'm going to start leaning in a little bit to an Instagram strategy. Maybe it's I'm going to launch a YouTube channel. Hit that link in description, a hundred dollars, YouTube starter kit, whatever the case might be, what is going to be your next step, but just start now. But listen, remember, grab my surefire resource 40 done for you ideas to help you just navigate this link in the description or in the show notes, hybridministry.xyz, and right here, this is why every single church needs a strong digital presence. I flesh it out, I explain it. I give you my strategy in this video. It's linked right here on the screen. Go check that out or go check out this YouTube playlist video teaching you how to start your YouTube channel from scratch. But we're trying to make digital ministry accessible, reachable possible, so don't forget, and as always, stay hybrid.

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DESCRIPTION
⛪ In this episode of the Hybrid Ministry Show we want to explore the Future of Youth Ministry in the Local Church.
We’re going to lean into the idea, and namesake of our show, and truly unpack the idea of: “Hybrid Ministry”

😡 Additionally, I’m going to answer the question: Does God Hate Social Media?

👌 And give you 3 Practical Tips that you can begin implementing into your student ministry space: TODAY

🔓The Church needs to unlock & unleash the next generation.
They are the church of now.
And Gone are the days of the one-size-fits all approaches to youth ministries.

🎨 It’s about learning and finding where youth people are, embracing diversity and creativity.

🆓 FREEBIES 🆓
📅 "1 Month Done for You Social Media Posting Tool"
https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/free-hybrid-ministry-e-book

😨 "Have I already Ruined my TikTok Account?"
https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/ebook

📹 "Adobe Premiere Pro Presets for Animating Layers"

https://share.hsforms.com/1VL1oWwWwQ82PLwsPFkPITgnumis

🛠️TOOLS
Some of the below links are affilate links in which we do recieve a small commission based on your purchase or use of products
//YOUTUBE STARTER KIT FOR UNDER $100
https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/youtubestarterkit

AUTO POD
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TRY REV.COM FOR TRANSCRIBING
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👉 STAY CONNECTED
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@clasonnick
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hybridministry/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@clasonnick

Website: https://www.hybridministry.xyz

📓SHOWNOTES
//SHOWNOTES & TRANSCRIPTS
http://www.hybridministry.xyz/067

//BRACKETS
https://www.downloadyouthministry.com/p/the-big-game-food-bracket/winter/the-big-game-8544.html
https://www.downloadyouthministry.com/p/world%27s-greatest-donut/games/food-8745.html
https://www.downloadyouthministry.com/p/the-student-ministry-bracket-of-epic-things/games-3974.html

//SCULPT IT
https://www.downloadyouthministry.com/p/sculpt-it/games/humor-8503.html

//SOCIAL CHALLENGE PLAYLIST
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNYRk3l4M-4&list=PL_FbsNmRvDjempodvm_5FsqwakX6OidCd

//SPIRITUAL RESOURCES
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/l6cp97ufmwn8gfpfkxbte/h?rlkey=s5hb09c6d6x1u9iqcdz5j1aya&dl=0

//DUCK, DUCK, TRIVIA

https://www.downloadyouthministry.com/p/duck-duck-trivia/trivia-8705.html

🕰️TIMECODES
00:00-02:03 The Future of Church Youth Ministry
02:03-09:08 What does Hybrid Ministry mean?
09:08-17:29 The Biblical Basis for Digital Expressions of Church
17:29-29:48 3 Ways to Invest in your Online Presence

29:48-36:25 The Challenge of a Strong Digital Presence

✍️TRANSCRIPT
Try Transcribing for Yourself at Rev.Com
rev.pxf.io/R5nDOa

Nick Clason (00:00):
In this episode, we are going to be exploring the question, does God hate us using social media? We're also going to be looking at unpacking and exploring and talking about the future of the church and the future of youth ministry. And finally, we are going to help lean into this idea of hybrid ministry. What is it? How do we implement it? What are the downsides of it? And lastly, we are going to offer three practical tips to help you win in your church and in your student ministry. And as always, there will be game ideas because that's just a part of the thing. The church is at this crossroads where they need to look at unlock and unleash the next generation because the next generation is the church of today, not the church of the future. Gone are the days of the one size fits all youth ministries, and so we need to help explore and unlock for you what's going to work in your context.

Nick Clason (01:03):
It's about us learning diversity, creativity, and leaning into the individuality of each and every one of our students, and to help do that, to help lean into the creativity. This is why I believe that the digital space is such a great opportunity for us. In fact, I have a done for you resource if you are just kind of floundering and have no idea where to go, and that's what we talked about in this video that's going to be linked right here at the top of the screen, TikTok versus Instagram versus YouTube because we are going to help you navigate the best social media to go all in on your context as well as give you a free ebook that's linked right down here below in the description to help you navigate social media for your church and for your student ministry. But without any further ado, let's dive into this episode, the future of the church, the future of youth ministry, and what exactly is hybrid ministry.

Nick Clason (02:02):
Let's go. Well, hey everyone. Welcome to the Hybrid Ministry Show. If you and I haven't had a chance to meet yet, my name is Nick Clason. I am a almost 13 year youth ministry veteran, currently living and working in the D F W Dallas-Fort Worth area. And I am on a mission to help churches and youth ministries realize their potential for what they can do with digital ministry and in the digital space. In fact, that's why I have this entire podcast, this entire YouTube channel. In fact, if you didn't know, we are a podcast, so you can check out the show notes for link to our full transcripts@hybridministry.xyz, but you might be asking what even is hybrid ministry? What even does that mean? And it's a little bit of a made up word I would say, but the idea of a hybrid thing, I think about it as a football fan. Think about Teem Hill of the New Orleans Saints, right? He's a hybrid style player. He can play,

Nick Clason (02:59):
He can get under center, he can snap the ball and throw it, but he's also got some kind of tight end skills, some kind of H back type skills. Or as an old timey Colts fan, Dallas Clark was a great hybrid or H back style of player. He didn't fit into a one size fits all mold. And that's really my heart behind what I think hybrid ministry is another really great example. I've used it before, so if you're a long time listener, you've maybe heard it, but the idea of Home Depot when I am a customer, I am a customer of Home Depot and so if on any given Saturday I'm just feeling Super dad and I want to throw on my cargo shorts and my new balance shoes and just go peruse the aisles of Home Depot, I can do that. I can experience Home Depot in a physical sense.

Nick Clason (03:47):
However, at the same time, if I don't have time to do that and I just want to place an order online, I can jump on their app and I can do that as well. But the third option is probably my favorite is a hybrid relationship with Home Depot where I grab my cell phone, I download their app while I'm in the store, I search for the thing I need, it tells me the exact aisle and bay number and location of my thing and I can walk straight there. I have a digital relationship with Home Depot while I am physically in the store at the physical location. And I think in a lot of cases that's the way that our churches need to start just thinking about because in a lot of times, especially with Covid, we did not have the physical as an option. And so we all moved to digital and it was an amazing opportunity.

Nick Clason (04:41):
I think a lot of churches learned a lot. I think a lot of churches are still doing things now as a result of what happened during the pandemic, but now as restrictions have lifted and people have gone more and more back into church on a regular basis, churches have been like that stunk. Let's go back to what we know and there is so much value in what can happen in an interpersonal relationship. Please, I want you to hear that from me. I want you to know my heart, but I also believe that, I mean, you know this right there are 168 hours per week in any given week, but most churches really only focus on the one or two hours that you have a programmed scheduled event. It's like the evening news or it's, it's like sitcom appointment television. If you want to know what's going on in this series, then you better be here at 10:30 AM and that's the only time that you're ever going to know what we're talking about.

Nick Clason (05:37):
And honestly, let's be honest, churches, that is a really selfish and kind of vain approach. The only way for people to grow is to make your thing appointment calendaring in their life, and that's just not the world that we live in anymore. You're going to have people do that and because you do have some people do that, you think everybody should adopt that approach. Meanwhile, there are people who do want to grow in their faith and do want to have a relationship with you and your church. However, their schedule may not allow for it. Like I know this coming Saturday we are hosting a national day of youth ministry volunteer training by D Y M, shout out d y m, but the problem is my boys have their very first game of T-ball and so unfortunately my wife can't, as a super rockstar volunteer that she is, she's not going to be able to make a portion of that training.

Nick Clason (06:29):
Does that mean that she doesn't care about youth ministry and teenagers and her role in our church? Not at all. She's busy. She's got something else going on and so we always have to think and accommodate for that. And I think a lot of times churches are just like, you need to prioritize this. And that's true. Hearing me say that I believe that our people need to prioritize the things of God. However, I also believe that we are now in a time and in a space in 2023 and beyond where we can offer things to people that they can consume, that they can learn, that they can come to understand, that they can gather teachings about the importance of what our church is doing, what our church is offering in a hybrid type of moment. They have an in-person relationship with our church, but they can lean into the digital and I think a lot of churches are approaching digital as the outreach arm and that's really all it does.

Nick Clason (07:24):
And then once you've come and decided to commit to the church, then you have to shift to completely in person. And I just want to tell you, I don't live that way. I got a speeding ticket last week. It was awful. I was going way too fast in zone. That should have been a much faster speed limit, but it's a speed trap. And after paying a $346 yesterday, I had the option to call to go in person or to go online to remedy that. Guess which option I chose? Just like all of you, I chose the online option. If there's a way to do it where it can be more convenient and it doesn't hinder the relationship, and I think that's what we need to do. So hybrid, it's not just about in-person or it's not just about digital. It's about finding a way to marry those two environments so that people can have a holistic and much more robust relationship with your church.

Nick Clason (08:24):
Hey, listen, I hope you're getting value out of this video and we're going to continue on and we have all kinds of other videos like this, and so it would be incredible if you hit the subscribe button so that you get notified every single time we drop a video like this and listen, it costs you nothing but a really does help us out. So if you would like this video and maybe even share this along with a friend or someone else that you know who's a youth pastor or a church communications person because we are on a mission to help churches lean into the hybrid side of their ministry. But let's move on. Let's answer next question. Does God hate social media and what is there if, is there a biblical basis for leaning into digital and hybrid ministry? Let's check it out. So I know a lot of pastors, I know a lot of people, I know a lot of leaders who encourage people to lean away from digital media, social media as a means of discipleship and a means of growth.

Nick Clason (09:23):
And I think in a lot of cases that that's really a healthy practice for a lot of people. I think with unfettered, unfiltered access to just doom scrolling social media time and time and time and time and time again, which I actually didn't mean to turn. Oh look, there's me. I didn't mean to turn my phone on doing that, but when people just do that over and over and over again, I know that it is not healthy. There are some definite downfalls and some definite payrolls to doing that. However, I also know that I need this thing to keep track of my calendar. I need that thing to read email. I need that thing to track my receipts. I need that thing to get me somewhere in a turn by turn. G P SS navigation system. That thing right there is where my wife and Mike's grocery list lives.

Nick Clason (10:14):
It lives in a digital format on our phone that we both have access to like a shared list. And so this thing is going nowhere. And so instead of just coaching people to throw it in the fire and be done with it, while that may be what some people need to do, I think we also need to begin to think about how can we help coach people through having a cell phone? Yes, there are bad and evil things on cell phones. If you have a teenage boy, a teenage girl, the pitfalls of pornography and what is available to them in their pocket at any given moment is dangerous. However, that's not going anywhere for them and unless mom and dad want to rip that away from them, they are going to have a cell phone. So how do we help them walk through and wade through the difficulties of that reality while also realizing that in many cases this is a necessary commodity for most people in America in 2023 and beyond?

Nick Clason (11:22):
I do actually believe that the Bible speaks about this and one of my favorite kind of passages of it, obviously it's not directly talking about cell phones and digital media because that didn't exist, but the principle I do believe exists. So in Jeremiah chapter 29, which is everyone's favorite bookstore, Bible verse Jeremiah 29 11, we're going to read it here in just a second, but actually starting in verse five is where we're going to start reading so that you for perhaps the first time in your life can get to hear Jeremiah 29 11 in its full context. But Jeremiah is writing to the Babylonian people who are in exile in, or I'm sorry, he's running to the Jewish people who are in exile in Babylon. So God's people are in a foreign land and he addresses their concerns. Here's what he says. I want you to build homes.

Nick Clason (12:16):
I want you to plan to stay. I want you to plant gardens, eat the food that they produce, marry and have children, and then find spouses for them so that they may have many grandchildren. Multiply, don't dwindle away and work for the peace and the prosperity of the city where I sent you into exile. Pray to the Lord for it, for its welfare and it will determine then ultimately your welfare. Verse eight says, this is what the Lord of the heavens armies, the God of Israel says, do not let your prophets and fortune tellers, tellers who are with you in Babylon trick you do not listen to their dreams because they're telling you lies in my name. I have not sent them, says the Lord. This is what the Lord says. You'll be in Babylon for 70 years, but then I will come and do for you all the good things I have promised and I will bring you home again for I know the plans.

Nick Clason (13:11):
Here it is, guys. Verse 11, for I know the plans I have for you, says the Lord, the plans for good, not for disaster. To give you a future and hope. I think that what God is basically saying in this verse is he's saying, invest in the place in which I have placed you. And he's saying, embrace the things of the land, of the place of the climate, of the context of which I have placed you and to the Jewish people that meant plant gardens, intermarry, have children, have grandchildren, pray for the prosperity of Babylon because that will determine and dictate the prosperity of you and your life. And in a lot of the same ways, I believe that technology is the opportunity for us to enter into a digital landscape and a digital Babylon, so to speak. And so we have the chance to lean into it.

Nick Clason (14:01):
We have the chance to go towards what the people of our day are using and navigating, and we have the chance to redeem it. We have the chance to bring light into it. We have the chance to sprinkle in and even more than just sprinkle, but fully embrace and bring the great message of hope of the gospel into a digital and hybrid space. And most of the times, the pastors that I have interacted with are saying cell phones are bad and evil because most people have really bad habits with it. And so they're saying, so just don't do it. You don't need it. You don't need a digital Bible. Go get your paper Bible. I'm just saying, listen, if you're a youth pastor and you're ministering to a 13 year old who just got a new cell phone, that's really not going to play very well to them.

Nick Clason (14:50):
I'm not saying that we should just cater to people. Discipleship is difficult and often we get the root word discipline from it, and so it's going to require some hard and difficult conversations. But all that being said, we are not going to successfully push people away from it and just I, listen, I get it just because, oh, well, should we cater to bad habits? Absolutely not. But there's a lot of good that can happen on here. Right now, I play fantasy football through my cell phone because of fantasy football. I have connections with people that I have worked with in the past, my family who lives in three continents on this globe. We play fantasy football together and we connect through this. My church staff right now, we have 30 people on our church staff playing fantasy football that I am help kind of spearheading and leading, and that's helping bring about some comradery among our staff.

Nick Clason (15:47):
I read the Bible this morning on the Bible app through a plan that I subscribe to on my phone a lot of times when I don't have, and I read that on my iPad, and if I don't have my iPad, I will read it on my phone. One of my favorite apps on here is the Bible verse memory app, right? My point is that there's a lot of good that can happen through this, and I think we a lot of times want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. So let's lean in. Let's teach people how to navigate and make wise decisions and choices as they interact with digital and cell phone media. So the question that you're probably asking then if you're youth pastor, church communications person, is how do I invest in an online presence? What do I do? And I want to let you know before we dive into that, that if any of this is interesting to you, if any of this is ringing a bell, any of this is perking your interest that we have a website, hybridministry.xyz, and this episode is episode 67.

Nick Clason (16:48):
So if you go to hybridministry.xyz slash 0 6 7 link is also down below in the description along with my 43 ideas for how to lean into digital ministry. You can get full transcripts. That's one thing that we provide completely for free in every single episode in case you're out on a run and you're hearing this and you're like, dude, I need some of that. I need to take some notes and filter some of my thoughts around some of what we're listening to in this episode. Great, we got that for you. Link in the description, hybridministry.xyz/067, but let's explore and let's answer and tackle this question. How do you invest into your online presence? I have three ideas for you to help invest more into your online presence. One idea is just up your game in your social media and your digital media presence.

Nick Clason (17:41):
And so that can be all kinds of different things like your social media. Does that mean that your church or your student ministry has a pop Instagram account? I mean maybe, or is it that you launch a relevant YouTube channel maybe? Or is it that you're surfing on the TikTok trends out there on that app? TikTok could be, but whatever it is, there is an opportunity to weave in social media not only to your church attenders, but also to people out there in the world who don't know anything about you, your church or your student ministry. But my ultimate number one recommendation, especially if you're in youth ministry, and if not I still recommend this for a lot of churches, is YouTube. And what I actually have is a link in the description for how you can launch and start a YouTube channel for under $100, which by the way in 2023 is completely unheard of.

Nick Clason (18:33):
So you should definitely get in on that. But what it's going to do is it's going to help you utilize and start a channel simply using your cell phone upping and leveling up your game with some microphone gear and maybe some basic lighting to just get the ball rolling so that you can have a YouTube channel. And the reason why I believe YouTube is such a strong contender is especially if you're a youth pastor, 95% of teenagers claim to use and utilize YouTube. Meanwhile, people are getting on there and think about it, how do you engage and interact with YouTube? You probably hopped on there recently and said, how do I fix this clogged sink in my guest bathroom? Right? People are getting on there and asking specific questions, and while you may be trying to figure out how to unclog your sink, a 13 year old might be saying, why does God send good people like my grandmother to hell?

Nick Clason (19:27):
And you as a youth pastor have an opportunity to address and answer that particular and specific question. Now, tell me that that's not an amazing opportunity. We posted a video on our church's social media, our church's YouTube, the beginning of the school year called How to Ruin Your School Year. I think maybe we did the opposite of it, how to Not Ruin Your School Year, and it got like 150 views, and our audience is really not that big on YouTube. And I mean we have at least 150 students on our role and on our roster, but I know that not all of our students are subscribed to our YouTube are even really paying attention to our YouTube. So those 150 views did not all come from our students. My question is, would you like an opportunity as a youth pastor to have greater kingdom impact than you have currently right now in your local physical context?

Nick Clason (20:21):
Maybe the answer is no, but I would wonder why the answer to that would be no. Sure, you can't nuance and go as deep, dude, that was like a 12 minute video. I had enough ability to flesh things out and flesh out ideas and explain things fully and thoroughly that you might have to leave on the cutting room floor of say, a more short form vertical video-based TikTok or YouTube short or something like that. There is opportunity really there is out there to answer specific questions of teenagers. And YouTube is powered by Google the number one largest search engine of the world, and people consider YouTube to be the second largest search engine in the world. So put answers to the questions that people are going to the second largest search engine in the world in there, trying to get answers to big matters of faith and existential realities.

Nick Clason (21:15):
You have a chance to do that. And like I said, link in the description down here that will help you get your YouTube channel up the ground with just a minimal amount of gear talking head just like this video into a cell phone camera. The other idea, the third idea that I have for you are some hybrid based games if you're in youth ministry, the value of games. But one of my favorite things we do is brackets. So if March madness style, if you're a sports person, you got 64 teams, we'll do a 16 team bracket, we'll rank things kind of arbitrarily with our own sort of value-based ranking system. We have a platypus mascot in our student ministry and that was voted on competing against 16 other animals. So we had a yak and we had a lamb, which was a 16 seed, which almost won and upset the number one seed a lion.

Nick Clason (22:11):
We had a baboon on there, and what ultimately won was the platypus. I think that's the generation of Finn. And for talking one of my favorite brackets, I actually have a couple on download youth ministry. I'll put the link to those in descriptions if you want to go check 'em out or create your own. But we will do a Super Bowl food or big game day food bracket so that students can self-select what foods, what snacks are going to be at the Super Bowl party, and just a couple of weeks at the time of this recording. So probably by the time this drops, it'll be happening live. Feel free to go check it out at Cross Creek students. That's all of our handles on YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok, but we are going to be launching the world's greatest donut bracket, and it's going to be students selecting the world's greatest donut.

Nick Clason (22:58):
Here's the cool thing though. We just paid for, I don't know, a couple hundred dollars banner to be installed in one of our walls that we can reuse and replicate every single time we run a bracket. We'll probably do two or three of these a year where we can hang it in our physical space. So as students walk in, they'll see it, but then the push is for them to jump on Instagram and cast their vote, jump on social media and let it be known what they're going to be voting for. And so that's a way to be hybrid. We're talking about it, announcing it and making it a big deal in our physical space, and we're giving students even a chance to vote physically on a piece of paper, but then we're also pushing it towards digital media. Those things get a ton of traction in our context.

Nick Clason (23:47):
People talk about it, especially on staff people like which one won? How did you rank that one that it incites a little bit of faux riot. Okay. Another thing is we will do a lot of, we'll do some things called social challenges. I'll link the playlist that we do on that YouTube, but we will grab a couple of students every single Wednesday night, film them on camera, and then post that to YouTube. We'll clip it up into a short, and that'll be something that we can post on shorts as well, but that gives students a chance to compete in certain challenges or taskmaster type challenges. Again, that's a way to use the students in your physical space and promote and pump them up on your digital platforms. And other things you can do game wise is just create some sort of contest where there's a drawing contest or a sculpture contest or a dancing contest or whatever.

Nick Clason (24:42):
You can post those on social media and let people vote, cast their vote. Did you like A or B better, right? Like gingerbread houses or we'll do Plato sculpture things. I have a game on D y M called Sculpt It, and then we've done before. It's really fun. But we post all those on social media and then we let people cast their vote for the winner, and then the next time we get together the next week or that following Sunday, we'll give away a prize to the winning team or the winning table for their contribution in that game. Those are just ways to marry your in-person with your online and make it more hybrid. Make it last beyond the one hour a week that you have your students in your student ministry. Another idea, so that's just upping your digital presence game. And hey, like I said, link in the description for 40 ideas, 40 done for you ideas in vertical, vertical video based content like TikTok, YouTube shorts, Instagram reels that you can start adopting now.

Nick Clason (25:39):
And all of those ideas, by the way, are ideas that are recyclable. So for example, you can use the same, I just posted a game. We're calling it telepathy, but you can name it whatever you want to name it. I got it from some guys on YouTube shorts who call it wavelength, but one guy's thinking of a number and another guy's asking him for certain categories of things. So like the one I just posted, they asked for candy sport, clothing brand and day of the week, and then you give an item that is that number that's in your head. So my buddy was thinking of number three, and she said, candy, and he said, black licorice, which I think it's probably lower than a three if you ask me, but that's just me. And then she said, okay, how about sport? And he said, golf.

Nick Clason (26:23):
And then she said, okay, how about sport or athletic wear? And he said, new balance. And then she said, how about day of the week? And he said, Tuesday, she guessed that the number was four, but it was really three in his head, right? That's just a fun game. You can do a little bit of post-production editing if you want, even if you have no editing skills, you can do most of that on your cell phone to make that happen. By the way, I have a complete ebook, another one on how to post a TikTok from scratch. I'll also link that down below in the description. But all these are ways for you to just start taking steps to up your game and your social media. All right, the other idea, what about, so that's digital presence. What about web access, right? Is your website up to date?

Nick Clason (27:03):
That's all I'm asking. Is your website up to date? And there's this idea, do we push info to people or do we ask them to pull it for themselves? And I believe that we should do both, but I believe that you can push info, but people should always know that the answer to every single one of their questions lies on the website. So yes, send that Tuesday email reminding them about the fundraiser coming up on Saturday, but let them know that in the email, Hey, all this info is available on our website so that when Friday night rolls around and the mom and dad are thinking about how to get their kids where they need to go on Saturday, and they know that one of the kids is going to the fundraiser at church, they have to figure out where they are, what time they have to drop them off.

Nick Clason (27:46):
They don't have to go dig back through their email that they've gotten 125 other spam emails between Tuesday and Friday night. They can just go straight to your website. Is your church website up to date? Listen, people live in an on demand world. They're not relying on your email to give them the information that they need. They want to be informed, but then they also, they want to know or to go to get what they need information wise. So make sure your website is up to date. And then the third hybrid idea I have are just simply like individual tools. I'll link a few of these in the description down below. But in our student ministry, like I said, we did a video called Three Ways to Ruin Your School Year, and it was basically don't connect with God. And so in the reverse, we gave them three connections with God ideas, memorizing scripture, reading the Bible, and spending time in prayer.

Nick Clason (28:46):
And we created just a downloadable resource for them to use and utilize on their phone. It also pointed them and push them towards apps or YouVersion, Bible reading plans. So if you want to see some of those, you can check those out. But those are just ideas of things that you can help put in your student's hand. You can print physical copies if you want. You can also offer a digital version of it on your website or in an email download. And if you have an actual communications marketing department, you can put those behind Handshake websites where people have to put their name and email in, and you can use that to start building lists and things like that, which is a really good marketing practice. But if you don't want to know how to do that and you don't have a communications department, you can just put free resources on your website for people to grab, however and whenever.

Nick Clason (29:35):
But what about the challenge? What is difficult about doing this? I hear you on the other side of this video. Don't have time. No way I can do this. Great. We're going to address that in the next section. Look, I get it. This is a lot. And as I'm explaining this, you're like, bro, I don't have time to do any of this. I know it's a lot of work. In fact, there's a tension, an inherent tension that will lie when you choose to enter into a hybrid space. The best example I have is the church I worked at before here. I started out on the very first day of Covid. I don't recommend that as a strategy, but I dunno how any of you can avoid that if you're taking a new job. But because I started on the first day of Covid, the very first thing that I did that we did, that our church did, that our student ministry did was launch a YouTube channel.

Nick Clason (30:23):
Well, they already had a YouTube channel, but launch a YouTube show. We called it unscripted and most churches during Covid, it was a in-person programming, youth ministry replacement. And dude, it was innovative. It was one of a kind. I really did not see a lot of other churches doing a full on show direct to camera, not just camera in the back of the room. There was a lot of power behind it. There was a lot of creative team members, videographers, contractors that were working on it. But then, as you know, slowly covid started to kind of wind down in-person, became more and more of a thing, and we started having more and more students back on campus and back in the room, but unscripted didn't go anywhere. In fact, we wanted to let unscripted serve as the small group teaching element, teaching moment in multiple in-person small group meetings in various host home locations throughout the city that lent itself better for geography.

Nick Clason (31:33):
We were in a mega church, and so a lot of people drove many, many miles to our church. And so we could put houses 20 minutes away from the campus, but closer to where students lived. We could also offer groups on multiple days of the week as students are super, super duper busy. It was a really, really, and because Covid had ushered us into this moment, it allowed us the chance to sort of rethink and reinvent how we disseminated our teaching and got the Bible into the hands of our small group leaders and into the hands of our children. But more and more people were clamoring for on-campus stuff, especially in light of Covid. And so this tension between is this good for the show? Is this good for online? Is this good for YouTube versus is this what's best for in the room? Became this tension and ultimately became insurmountable to the point where the show got canceled.

Nick Clason (32:25):
Now, the downside, the real thing, the real rub you got to answer is we have kids sitting right in front of us every single week. Is YouTube the best strategy for those kids? That's probably got to be your number one priority, but the challenge is that there's going to be a tension between the online and the in-person constantly. And it's going to be so easy when it feels so insurmountable that you just say, forget it. I can't worry about the online anymore. I just got to focus on the in-person. And I don't necessarily have a formula or an answer for you, but what I do know is that there were some times where we did some things where we faced a challenge and we were tempted to just be like, you know what? Forget it. That's not the priority here. And we said, no, no, no, no, we're not going to do that.

Nick Clason (33:19):
We're going to lean in and we're going to figure this thing out. And so one of my favorite things, in fact, I have a game that sort of tried to mimic it. It's not as good though because it's not like a full on show with our youth pastors and our personalities, but it's called Duck Duck Trivia, and it's where you play duck, duck goose in a circle. But in the meantime, there's a trivia game happening on the screen. I have it on D y m, but we did a version of it with our show. And anytime you heard a squeak with one of the rubber ducks that we had, people had to get up and play duck, duck goose in the room while also paying attention to the screen and playing trivia. I created a sheet, a downloadable note sheet for them to keep track of and take notes of.

Nick Clason (33:59):
The point I'm making with all that is that there was a way to win in the room and win online, and it was epic. You know what I mean? But you got to spend more time and you got to think outside the box. You can't just throw a four corners game on the screen and be like, that's going to crush on YouTube. It just might not. The other challenge of it is just going to be a time constraints challenge, right? Digital media, video editing, graphic design soaks up a lot of time. And if you're a lone ranger, if you're a one man band, if you're doing this on your own, bro, I get it, you're going to be spending a lot of time on it. Again, the temptation is going to be to just throw it out, throw the baby out with the bath water, don't need it anymore.

Nick Clason (34:42):
But if you lean into it, you can find some good on the other side of the mountain there. The fact is, you just have to value it. Your church has to value it. Your supervisor has to value you spending your time on it and notice and point out and know that it is making a difference, even if it's not seen and felt immediately right away. And that's the, that's the third shadow side. You have to determine your win with this because the payoff for digital is not immediate. And you have to answer questions like, is this to reach outsiders? Is this to serve and help mature our insiders? What is the real reason behind this? But here's my thing, because of what Jeremiah said in Jeremiah chapter 29, I do believe we should invest in where we are. So I think out of this video, I'd love to encourage you, I'd even love to hear from you, comment below, but what's one next action step that you're going to take today?

Nick Clason (35:33):
Maybe it's just like, you know what? I'm going to stop just only posting announcement graphics to my Instagram. I'm going to start leaning in a little bit to an Instagram strategy. Maybe it's I'm going to launch a YouTube channel. Hit that link in description, a hundred dollars, YouTube starter kit, whatever the case might be, what is going to be your next step, but just start now. But listen, remember, grab my surefire resource 40 done for you ideas to help you just navigate this link in the description or in the show notes, hybridministry.xyz, and right here, this is why every single church needs a strong digital presence. I flesh it out, I explain it. I give you my strategy in this video. It's linked right here on the screen. Go check that out or go check out this YouTube playlist video teaching you how to start your YouTube channel from scratch. But we're trying to make digital ministry accessible, reachable possible, so don't forget, and as always, stay hybrid.

]]> Episode 029: Is Digital a Valid method to Preach God's Word? https://www.hybridministry.xyz/029 3a0c360f-b802-44db-8b74-f442fc5e1079 Thu, 02 Feb 2023 04:00:00 -0600 Nick Clason 029 Is Digital a Valid method to Preach God's Word? full Nick Clason In this episode, Nick takes his listeners on a journey through his deep dive on asking the question "Is Digital a valid method to preach God's word to the world?" He explores what preaching is, the ways in which God has spoken over the years, the purpose of the church and then ultimately gives a conclusion! 38:47 no In this episode, Nick takes his listeners on a journey through his deep dive on asking the question "Is Digital a valid method to preach God's word to the world?" He explores what preaching is, the ways in which God has spoken over the years, the purpose of the church and then ultimately gives a conclusion! SHOWNOTES For all things Hybrid Ministry head to http://www.hybridministry.xyz Hangout with Nick: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9pjecCnd8FVFCenWharf2g https://www.tiktok.com/@clasonnick FREE E-Book: "Have I already Ruined my TikTok Account?" https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/ebook The Best YouTube strategy for 2023 and Beyond! https://www.hybridministry.xyz/021 TIMECODES 00:00-03:16 Intro 03:16-05:04 The Theology of Preaching 05:04-09:17 The high calling of being a preacher of God's Word 09:17-10:30 God has chosen to speak 10:30-13:58 God has chosen surrogate voices 13:58-18:45 What is preaching? 18:45-30:47 The purpose of the Church 30:47-37:31 Can you share the message of Jesus online? 37:31-38:47 Outro TRANSCRIPT Nick Clason (00:00): Well, hey there everybody. Welcome to another episode of the Hybrid Ministry podcast. I am your host, Nick Clason, excited to be here with you. And I just wanted to invite you, if you have not yet, check out our website http://www.hybridministry.xyz. If you didn't know, we have complete show transcripts that we have created a hundred percent just for you. Um, those are a hundred percent free for you. They're not free to produce, but they are a free gift that we do for every single episode. So if you're like me, where you probably are listening while you're driving or running or exercising or cooking or biking, and then you hear something and you want to, uh, recall it or write it down or take a note or quote or something like that, you can do that through the transcripts. Now, full disclosure, the transcripts are AI and automated automatically generated. Nick Clason (00:57): And so sometimes they're not the most reliably transcribed, but they are still a good tool and you usually be able to figure out and get to the right place. with those other thing I wanna invite you to do is if you have not yet checked out our 100% free ebook that we created, called Have I Ruined My Church's TikTok account just yet? You know, there's a lot of speculation, um, and maybe worry when you log onto TikTok, like, am I doing this right? Is this how this is supposed to look? Did I do this thing wrong? And I just wanna encourage you to grab this ebook, and the answer is probably no. Um, but we'll help you, we'll help you, uh, take your first step post your first TikTok, because the world of vertical and short form video content is not going anywhere. Nick Clason (01:51): Um, in fact, it is so saturated in all of the major markets, TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube, that for the first time in a very long time, you can post identical content on all four of those platforms. And they will not ding you, they will not take away because you're posting something that was built for another platform while short form and vertical video content was made popular by TikTok. The other platforms are all trying to chase that down and bring that this discovery algorithm into their framework. And so they are Fran frantically trying to make that a reality and trying to make that happen. And so, um, the church has a unique opportunity to not only grow on social media, but take a medium and a platform that prioritizes this, uh, short form video content speaking directly into a camera. Um, which is something that the church has the ability to do quite easily. Nick Clason (02:52): Like if you think about it in the past, right? Uh, churches would have, uh, so like have to figure out a way to make graphics, figure out a way to have to get photographers. But now a pastor is actually probably someone who's pretty well versed in communicating to people, and that's what is happening in these short form video, uh, pieces of content. And so it's a really unique, um, and really unprecedented time in the church. So, with all that being said, excited to have you today. Today I want to talk about the theology of preaching. Now, you might be thinking this is not a digital topic. And the reason that I think it's a digital topic is because I think that, um, the teacher, the preacher has, um, the ability and perhaps even responsibility to use social media to spread and share the message of Jesus. Nick Clason (03:46): Um, and so the reason I wanted to do this deep dive into preaching is because I wanted to make sure that as I read through an examined different sections and pieces of the New Testament, that I was not speaking out of turn, um, and saying something that, uh, was not theologically accurate, you know, in the land of, well, per like, I guess the anticipated argument, and, and in fairness, I haven't really heard this from anybody, but I wanted to make sure that I, um, wasn't saying something that was not a hundred percent biblically or theologically true. Because again, like I said, I haven't said it yet, but I've circled around this idea. My anticipated idea or anticipated argument was that people might say preaching has to take place in the fabric and context of local church and local community. And so I wanted to examine cuz I wasn't sure that that's actually what was said, um, in the New Testament. Nick Clason (04:50): And so I wanted, but I wanted to see it for myself. Obviously, I wanted to look at the text and I didn't wanna just go off what I thought or believed or, um, was mostly sure to be true. So let's take a look at the Theology of preaching. So in 1980, a book called Biblical Preaching came out by Hadden Robinson. That was, that was my, um, textbook for, I believe it was Homiletics. Um, which homiletics is the actual, uh, practice or act of delivering a sermon. And so I went to that book, um, and the book is very much a, uh, pro dispositional preaching style verse by verse type of thing. And so he's, he's really building that case the entire way through. And so there's, you know, there's, um, a couple of introductory ideas in the first chapter about what is preaching. Um, but then after that it really dives into the, the ex dispositional side of things and how, how you should focus on that. Nick Clason (05:58): But one of the quotes that I found interesting that Hadden Robinson said was he said, Hey, one should think twice and twice again before nominating himself to that company of preachers. And, um, obviously, um, he's borrowing that from James chapter three, verse one, where James writes, dear brothers and sisters, not many of you should become teachers in the church for me, or sorry, for we who teach will be judged more strictly this, this responsibility of, um, standing in the gap between God who has a message and his people as a preacher or as a prophet as they were in the Old Testament. That is a high responsibility, and those people are going to be judged more harshly. And so Robinson is saying you should think twice and maybe twice again before you, uh, attempt to step into this. It's not just something about glamorous, not just something about, um, you know, like being known noticed, like this is a really high calling. Nick Clason (07:00): And so I think that it's really important for whoever is listening to this, whether if you're like a social media manager and you are a person on camera a lot, or if you're pulling, um, audio clips or video clips from your pastor's sermons, the the fact remains the same that whoever that person is, and then if, if you are an actual pastor who's doing the, the recording, you will be judged more harshly. So, so take that responsibility for what it is worth, right? Like, it's very important. Matthew Simpson, um, he wrote this. He said, his throne is the pulpit, and he talking about the preacher stands in Christ's stead. His message is the word of God around him are immortal souls. The savior unseen is beside him. The Holy Spirit broods over the congregation, angels gaze upon the scene in heaven, and hell await the issue, await the sermon. Nick Clason (08:00): And so, uh, same thing, right? Like it's just talking about the, the priority. It's talking about the the level of weight that is on whoever is preaching. All right? And so, uh, I will, uh, throw, uh, a lot of notes, um, a lot of links into the show notes. I'll throw Had and Robinson's, um, link to that book if you wanna check that out. Um, I also found a bunch of articles online that I found pretty helpful. Um, one was from a ministry magazine article. And, um, I just wanna give you a couple of the highlights from that magazine that talk about the importance of preaching. Again, in almost all of these articles are almost all these books, the assumption is that preaching is done in a physical context behind a physical pulpit to a physical congregation. And by no means am I trying to build or make a case that says that that should go away, okay? Nick Clason (08:51): But what I am trying to build and make a case and open a door for is can preaching or can sharing the message of Jesus, can that also be done using different methods and mediums, such as an online medium, uh, like short form, video content, YouTube, TikTok, whatever the case might be. All right? So here's some of the high, uh, high level takeaways from this Ministry magazine article about preaching. All right? So the first thing at a very basic foundational level is this, is that God has chosen to speak. We see in Genesis chapter one, 10 different times it was recorded, it says, God said, we also see five different times in that same chapter of Genesis chapter one, that God called and so to God, words are very important. In fact, his entire creation was speaking. And then the thing, existing plants, animals, light, darkness, day, night, moon, stars, sun, all of that was given to us by the voice and word of God to God, words and breath and speaking, it matters, and it plays an, a pretty important role in the narrative of human history. Nick Clason (10:08): Furthermore, uh, God breathed into Adam and gave him his life. And Psalm 33, 6 says, by the word of the Lord, the heavens were made, the host of them and the breath of his mouth. And so, God, there is a very important and, and critical role in the fact that God has even chosen to speak. So God's chosen to speak. God has also called for surrogate voices to, to speak on his behalf. Preaching by the prophets was a, a way of warning the people to get their act together or to, to watch out for some sort of impending judgment that was going to happen because they had not been obeyed. See, God is love, and he's giving all, um, opportunity for mankind to experience and come to salvation. One Timothy chapter two, verse four says, who wants God? Who wants everyone to be saved and to understand the truth? Nick Clason (11:08): Romans 10 13 through 16 says this. It says, so everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. But how can they call on, on him to save him unless they believe in him? How can they believe in him if they've never heard about him? How can they hear about him unless someone tells them? And how will anyone go and tell them without being sent? So that's why the scripture says, how beautiful are the feet of the messengers who bring the good news? But not everyone who welcomes the good news for Isaiah, the prophet said, Lord, who has believed our message? See, there's power in the words. There's power in being saved through the words. And God has a desire for humans to come to that understanding. The, the, the reality is this, is that the, the power comes from you and my and your preacher or whoever. Nick Clason (12:00): The power comes from that person's individual life. It's about the words that are said, but there's power and weight behind it. If there's authority, integrity, um, if, if, if the message is coming from the overflow of somebody's heart, of somebody's life, this, this message is not just about saying the message, right? There's obviously that, that verse where Paul says, uh, even if despite how the gospel is being preached, I rejoice because even if it's in vain, or even if it's not good or whatever, like it is still being preached. And that's true. But the, the more connected you and I and your pastor are connected to the vine, John chapter 15, if, uh, we are connected to the vine, you're reminded that Jesus says, um, apart from me, you can do nothing. Ian Bounds has a quote that says, the sermon is made in the closet. Nick Clason (12:59): The man, God's man is made in the closet. And so then at that point, you and I get to take this idea from Romans chapter 10 or for Timothy chapter two, um, and share it with other people. God desires for all men to come to an understanding. We, we get to be the feet that carry the message to the people who have not heard. How sweet are the feet of those who carry that message, however, is the person's personal life is our personal life, is our heart, is we have the gut check in place because it's really easy on social media, it's really easy on TikTok to get vanity metrics and vanity views and feel like we're actually doing something when in reality we maybe aren't doing anything and we're chasing after selfish gain or selfish motive. So like Ian Bound says, the real sermon, the real is made in his private life in a closet. Nick Clason (13:59): All right, so I got some more articles. Um, what is is preaching, um, I, I, I searched what is preaching, and a quote from, uh, thabiti on Yawe says this. He says, preaching is God speaking in the power of his spirit, about his son from his word through a man. Thessalonians chapter one verse form five says four, we know brothers loved by God that he has chosen you because our gospel came to you not simply with words, but also with power, with the Holy Spirit and with deep conviction. First Thessalonians two 13. And we also thank God continually because when you receive the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it as it actually is the word of God. God himself spoke through Paul's preaching, which is at, which is at work in you who believe power is in the word. Um, and also in the messenger, right? Nick Clason (14:59): First Peter, chapter four, 10 through 11, each one should use whatever gift he has received to serve others faithfully, faithfully, admonishing God's grace in its various forms. And if anyone speaks, you should do so as one speaking the very words of God. And then Matthew chapter 10, verse 19 through 20, when they arrest you, do not worry about what to say or how to say it. Cuz at that time, you'll be given what to say for it will not be you, uh, speaking, but it will be the spirit of your, uh, father speaking through you had Robinson Hadden. Robinson says this, he says, preach means to cry out Harold or exhort, second Timothy, chapter four, verse two. So preaching should so stir a man that he pours out the message with passion and fervor. See, scripture already has authority. And so Robinson's argument, right, like I was saying, is one for expository preaching, which obviously he's speaking and writing this with a mindset of, uh, really I feel like he's arguing expository versus, uh, like topical or whatever. Nick Clason (16:10): And he's also arguing it with the assumption that this is taking place within the context of a local church with a pastor who's standing behind a pulpit who has the word of God open in front of him, and he's preaching out of it. And he's saying that the authority comes from the word of God. And so if we're going to take that and transfer this to a digital format, the same is true. You see, it's really easy, especially on TikTok. It's all about quick and the hook and about capturing attention. And I think those things are true. And by the way, those things are still true for live preaching in the room sermons, um, capturing people's attention, making sure it's relevant, taking what is true in God's word, and also making it true in their life or relevant in their life. However, the authority, the intersection there between, uh, the word of God and the relevancy, um, of the, of, uh, the message, the intersection of that needs to be God's word. Nick Clason (17:01): That is where the authority falls and comes from. All right, so back to Robinson, right? An expository definition. Um, he says this, he says, so, so the passage, uh, governs the sermon. The expository communicates a concept. The concept then comes from the text. The concept is applied to the expository. And then, um, the concept is then applied to the hearer. Okay? And so oftentimes a complaint about expository preaching is that it's not very relatable, it's boring, it's dry. Okay? Check out this quote from Robinson. I found it incredibly eye-opening, especially as I'm doing this research in light of, can this be a digital means a digital format? He said, seldom do normal people lose sleep over the, the jutes, the Canaanites or the, the parasites. Uh, or even about what Abraham, Moses or Paul had said or done. He said, what they do lie awake, wondering is about grocery prices, crop failures, corals with a girlfriend, the diagnosis of malignancy, of frustrating sex life, the rat race where the rat only seems to ever win. Nick Clason (18:10): So if a sermon does not make much difference in that world, they wonder if it makes any difference at all. And I would say, and I would make the argument that the same is true if you're going to try and preach and share the message of hope of Jesus online, cuz people are, are not scrolling through TikTok worried about the JB besides Canaanite pairs, that's Abraham, Moses, or Paul. But what they will care about is when you can take those things and make them relevant and apply them back over to the worries, the frustrations, the day-to-day life, things that are causing them concern. Nick Clason (18:47): So all of that is about preaching. All of that is about good fact that God chose to speak, he uses surrogate voices and preaching must inspire, um, and be relevant for people, uh, to take the message and apply it back over to their lives. The question then is, what is the role of preaching in the church? And is preaching an exclusive thing that can only happen in the context of a local church body, right? Then that would be, that would be, um, pretty important to, to figure out, um, especially in light of, of this argument. And, you know, in a lot of cases, I, I feel as though my audience, and if this isn't you, that's obviously fine. You're obviously welcome here. You can, can learn and from what we're talking about, but I feel in a lot of ways my audience is aimed at a person who is already in a local church, um, who's working for a local church and who's already seeing a lot of these things sort of like happening and take place. Nick Clason (19:48): The question I have then is, what is the purpose of the local church? You know, we went into that a little bit in the last episode, so I'll drop the link to that in the show notes. Uh, I also then looked up, um, an article I found on, um, desiring god.org, which is John Piper's website, and he has seven qualifications for the church. So he has seven qualifications and a averse or two that sort of like, uh, support it. And so I also look those verses up and I'm gonna read those verses when I'm done, um, so that you understand where he's getting his, his basis for. So he's, he's making a statement, um, and tying it to a, a scripture. And I'm gonna read the actual scripture so that you hear that scripture, um, as well, not just like the reference to, okay, so the first thing that he says, he says that people must give evidence in the remember, uh, the basis for local church. Nick Clason (20:39): Um, so number one basis for a local church, or what is a local church, that people must give evidence that they are believers, that they, they trust Jesus as their savior and Lord, the New Testament makes it very clear that we are adopted into the family of God through our faith. And that comes from John chapter one, verse 12 and 13, but to all who believe him and accept him, he gave the right to become children of God. They're reborn not with physical birth resulting from human passion or pl or a plan, but a birth that comes from God. The second basis, the second qualification of a local church is that people must be baptized. Jesus commanded a Matthew chapter 28, verse 19, that the way to make disciples was to baptize them and to teach them. And this was the uniform practice in the early church. Nick Clason (21:21): Matthew 28 19 says, therefore, go make disciples of all nations, baptiz them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. The third basis for the local church is that there must be a regular assembly. A group of people who only came together, say once a year, could not rightly be called a local church because they are a central activities of the church, which lose their meaning when not done corporately. So therefore, Hebrews 10 25 commands us not to neglect meeting together to hear. Hebrews 10 25 says this, let us not neglect our meeting together as some people do, but encourage one another, especially now that the day of his return is drawing near. Uh, just a quick pause here. I would say in a lot of ways, I think the gathering together, um, a lot of it is not, um, at this point in 2023, is not necessarily for information transfer. Nick Clason (22:11): I think, um, that that has been solved through means like podcasting and YouTube videos and, um, people can even listen to worship music on Spotify. Now, I think one of the major factors of the local church is for this is for encouragement. I think that life is hard. I think that people are lonely. And I think that coming together in a gathering, in a regular gathering is for encouragement. Um, that complicates things a little bit when most churches gather together to sit down in rows and look ahead and watch a person talk for a half an hour. And I think that's where I can make the argument that you can take that same content that you're delivering in a 30 minute sermon and distribute it and disseminate it out online. You can also do it in that format. But I think that there should be something meaningful there for the regular assembly, that there should be some sort of encouragement. Nick Clason (23:04): A lot of churches have Sunday school classes or small groups that meet to do that and to fill that, to fulfill that function. And I just think that, um, we have made that a second tier priority, um, in the church. And I think in 2023 and beyond, with information and all-time high and an all-time level of availability, I think that what people really want and need and are looking for is that encouragement. So I'll continue going on. Uh, the fourth marker of a local church is, it says, among these meetings, there must be, um, gathering for worship. This follows inevitably from the ultimate value placed on Jesus Christ who calls us together from our rela uh, relation to God. Through him, the church is destined to live, uh, to the praise of God's glory. Ephesians chapter one, verse six, 12 and 14, and therefore, it will contradict our nature not to assemble for worship. Nick Clason (24:00): Um, acts chapter two, uh, 47, and then Romans 15, six through seven. So Ephesians 1, 6, 12, and 14 says, so we praise God for the glorious grace that he has poured out on us who belonged to his dear son. Verse 12, God's purpose was that we, Jews who are the first to trust Christ would bring praise and glory to God. And verse 14, the spirit of God's guarantee that he will give us inheritance. He promised that he has purchased us to be his own people. He did this so that we would praise and glorify him. So because of what he did right, we would, we would as a result, praise and glorify him. And, and because of that, then Piper is making the argument that that's the church should be, um, built on worship and adoration and, and praise of God. Acts chapter two verse, uh, acts 2 20 47. Nick Clason (24:50): Acts 2 47 says, all while praising God and enjoying the goodwill of all the people, and each day the Lord added to their fellowship, those who are being saved, Romans 15, six and seven, then all of you can join together with one voice giving praise and glory to God the father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, accept each other just as Christ has accepted you, so that God will be given all the glory. The fifth marker of the church. Our meetings must include exhortation from the word of God, right? This is pay attentional to this one. This is really what this entire podcast is centered on. Um, we were born and new through the living and abiding and the word of God, first Peter 1 23. And our life in Christ is preserved not by bread alone, but by every word that precedes out of the mouth of God. Nick Clason (25:35): Matthew four, four, the shepherds of the church are the provision that God has made for feeding his sheep. Therefore, we strive not to be the church where the word of God is neglected. First Peter one twenty three, for you have been born again, but not to a life that will quickly end. Your new life will last forever because it comes from the eternal living word of God. Matthew four, four, Jesus told Satan, no, the scriptures say, please people or not, not please people do not live on bread alone, but by every word that precedes out of the mouth of God. Um, I do think that God has put pastors and shepherds in place to help feed his sheep, but I think that that really the role and mission of the church is, um, as Paul says in Ephesians is, is to equip the saints for works and acts of service. Nick Clason (26:17): And so I think in a lot of ways also it says in, I can't remember, I didn't write this one down first or second Peter, that we have everything we need for life and godliness, where a priesthood of all believers. And so people who believe in God should be given the tools to feed themselves to grow in their own faith on their own. And so, yes, I believe that you should gather together to hear a preacher who's poured over a week and remember the, the, the, the power from the word of God comes from the private, private life of the preacher, all that. However, I think the preacher should also be not just teaching the person, uh, like giving them a fish, right? But teaching them how to fish so that they can have that lifetime of learning. And we have, and I think that that a lot, a lot of that learning, um, with that requires some discernment. Nick Clason (27:00): Like especially with so much out there, social media, articles, whatever the case might be. Uh, I think the, one of the main things that needs to take place is discernment. Like how do you know if you believe this? If, if this article you're reading lines up matches up with your belief in God and if your, and if it lines up with what the Bible actually has to say. So how do you take what the Bible has to say and and weigh that and measure that against what you're reading, what you're consuming, what you're listening to. So, uh, I'll continue on number six, along with worship and the exoration, we must celebrate in the Lord's supper in order to be the church. We're committed to do this in remembrance of Christ. Luke 2219 and first Corinthians 11, four, neglecting this ordinance might seem, uh, inconsequential at first, but I think a church will bleed to death through the amputation. Nick Clason (27:49): Luke 2219 says, then Jesus took some bread, gave thanks to God, broke it in in pieces, and he gave it to his disciples saying, this is my body which is given to you. Do this in remembrance of me, first Corinthians 1124, and give, and gave thanks to God for it. Then he broke it in pieces and said, this is my body, which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me. This is a gigantic argument for the importance of physical gathering. You, you really cannot partake in the Lord's supper together as a, as a body of Christ without a physical gathering together. You can, um, church has that before, took communion every single week. And so as a part of their online experience, they would encourage people to grab crackers and juice and do it in their homes. And we did that during Covid cuz that was required necessary. Nick Clason (28:30): But I think that there's something about doing it in a communal way. Again, I would not, I would argue though, that like when we're sitting in rows and the pastor comes out on stage and leads everyone through communion, I, I don't know that that's really communal, like you're together. But is that actually what he was just talking about there? And that's where, that's where I think the, the, the 21st century American breakdown from church is a has been away from family and more towards a theater or observatory way of church. And that's what I'm saying, encouragement and communal and all these things that, that do happen within the context of a physical church gathering. I do think that it's, it's not actually being played out that way. So you can make that argument like, well, yeah, you need to be together and whatever, but like when I'm sitting in a row, shoulder to shoulder and staring at the back of someone's head, I'm not really getting to know them, not really doing that thing that way. Nick Clason (29:22): Um, that's just how we have come to land here out of, out of history. Like historically this, we've been doing it this way, so we're doing it this way again, as opposed to like really, like I said, leaning into less on the information side cuz information's now much more available, but more leaning more into the relational side. Last thing, um, from Piper's article, finally, all of this must take place with the, with the guidance of duly appointed leaders. Paul appointed elders in all churches, acts 1423. He gave instructions about the qualifications of deacons and elders in first Timothy three and tied this one. Full disclosure, I did not write those out, so you can go check those out on your own if you want. And he said that Christ had given pastors teachers to the church to equip the saints for ministry. Ephesians four, one through 12. Nick Clason (30:13): I referenced that earlier. Uh, there have always been disagreements about what to call these leaders and how to organize them, but they must be present in a group in order for that group to be a church. Historic Christianity has always affirmed this. So Acts 14, Palm Barnabas also appointed elders in every church with prayer and fasting. They turn the elders over to the care of the Lord in whom they'd put their trust. And then Ephesians for one through 12, therefore I prisoner for serving the Lord beg you to lead a life worthy of your calling. You've been called by God and their responsibility is to equip God's people to do his work and to build up the church, the body of Christ. Nick Clason (30:50): All right, so with all that, with all those different pieces of, of writing and articles and excerpts from books, what's the conclusion? So what I believe very strongly is that the church is God's plan, a for redeeming his people. Matthew chapter 16, Caesarea Philippi upon Peter's proclamation that Jesus is the Christ, the son of the living God. Jesus says upon this, I will build my church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it. And so, uh, not only is the church going to be successful, but also it is God's plan, a for bringing about redemption and restoration to his people. I also believe that the church should include as Piper laid out elements of worship and teaching. And as I said in the last podcast, living out the one another's, he said it in one of his points about the importance of encouragement of meeting together. Nick Clason (31:51): I think that there's a, like I said earlier, and I did a little sidebar, uh, earlier, I think there's a lot more there and I think there's a lot more opportunity for the church to be more encouraging in lifting up one another. And so I think it's, I think it's ultimately God's desire that everyone comes to a knowledge of salvation of him. And I also believe, and I, and I see it pretty clearly, that it's Jesus' command for us to go and make disciples teaching them. And and I think that's probably done through the context of community. Now, like I said, I think we can get it twisted and say when we're sitting in rows, the way that the church has been set up for, for a century or longer now, that that's community because we're in the room together. And I don't actually think that that's the most effective form of community. Nick Clason (32:43): And I think most pastors would say that's not the most effective form of community. However, no one has really tried to break that. Um, and if they do, they're often considered sort of like hippies and people just trying to be like super offshoot of Christianity, right? But people who live, um, best in the context of community, people who have committed to a local assembly, a local body, a local acc, the church, um, those people are the ones who then can live out this command from Jesus to both be discipled and to be discipling others, teaching them about the commands of Jesus. And that's not just the pastor's job, it's the pastor's job to help equip set up framework, um, do this under the, the guidance and assembly and all these things. Okay? But in addition to the content from God's word, there's an encouragement of one another that needs to be lived out and needs to be expressed. Nick Clason (33:40): And however, I think in addition to all of that, we see Paul and we see Jesus and we see his disciples, like when Jesus sends out the 72, that they have a high level of urgency and priority to go and share the gospel to the people that have not yet heard the message of Jesus. And I do believe that digital vertical, short form video, long form video, audio podcasting, TikTok, is today's opportunity to help go out into the fray infringes to share the message of help found in the gospel. Like, like Paul, right? Almost every one of his letters was written to a church that he was not in physical proximity to. He had a relationship with them, he had met them before, maybe he hadn't, he just heard about 'em in a couple cases. But he sends and uses the, the communication means and effort of his day and age, and he uses it to get in contact with different churches. Nick Clason (34:44): And I believe that TikTok is today's opportunity to share the message of hope that's found in the gospel if we're borrowing from the marketing world and looking at like a funnel, right? Like the top of the funnel is the widest, and that's the awareness phase. And then people might move into a consideration phase and then a conversion phase, and then to the fact down in the lowest part of the funnel, um, where they are expressing loyalty. And then finally, they are expressing a advocacy. And I think that the church can, um, follow a similar way. And I think that that TikTok, I think that social media often is a top of the funnel type of thing. I don't know that you are gonna pray with anybody to receive Christ over TikTok. You might, and that'd be an amazing story. But I think in a lot of ways a person is, is hovering around the top of the funnel, gaining an awareness of Jesus, um, and, and maybe even your church, and then moving down that funnel more and more and more until finally I take a step into real live, authentic personal community. Nick Clason (35:44): And the church world is very similar. Jesus set up the very same framework, right? Jesus said, um, Hey, explore who I am, where he, where he gives the invitation to Andrew and John, and he says, come and see. And then out of that, he, he allows them to follow him or, or connect with him and with some other disciples. And then he really ch he leans in, he challenges them, goes from following me to, I will make you, I will change you, um, make you into fishes of men. And that's what we see a lot of the growth of them internally. And then finally, the most growth is when he turns and pivots and he says, now it's your job to go and multiply. And that's why we see much joy out of Jesus when the 72 come back, because the 72 is the, the second and third and fourth generation of disciples. Nick Clason (36:31): It's not just his disciples, the ones that we know, the ones that are listed, Peter, James, John, Andrew. But it's, it's their disciples, the ones that they've shared the message with. Those 72 go out and they also bear much fruit. That's the framework that Jesus has built up for multiplication. And so, um, we can, as the church, we can lean into that come and see, and that follow me, those entry level places. And in a lot of times those have been set up in physical gatherings in the worship environment. And that is a place where people can come and explore. But I think, um, in today's day and age, they're also doing a lot of that exploration in the palm of their hands, on their phones, on their devices and on their screens. And they're looking at their, at their phones. They're asking questions about, who is this man? Nick Clason (37:13): Jesus, what is this you say about faith? And as they're scrolling through TikTok to yes, be entertained and to yes, find another silly video or whatever they're looking for, they might also find something meaningful, something spiritual and something where you can say, Hey, come and see. Hey, listen guys, I hope you found this episode helpful. Uh, it was a deep dive. Um, it was heavy and there was a lot of, uh, scripture and quotes and stuff like that. And so, um, I will post, um, all the links to everything I've done in the show notes. Of course, there's free transcripts and you know what I'll do, I'll include my notes for this, um, in the, the notes as well. So you can get all that over at hybridministry.xyz. Go grab the ebook, go watch the YouTube video and how to post. And um, guys, listen, there is a lost and dying world out there, and that's why this is so important, not for you to get a thousand million hundred views on a TikTok video, but so that people who don't have a relationship with Jesus come to an understanding of a relationship with Jesus. Nick Clason (38:15): And maybe just, maybe that's through you giving them an opportunity to explore and open the door. So keep doing what you're doing, blessings on you and your ministry, and we'll talk again. Digital, Theology, Hybrid, Ministry, Online Church, Meta Church, Online Ministry, Discipleship In this episode, Nick takes his listeners on a journey through his deep dive on asking the question "Is Digital a valid method to preach God's word to the world?" He explores what preaching is, the ways in which God has spoken over the years, the purpose of the church and then ultimately gives a conclusion!

SHOWNOTES
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TIMECODES
00:00-03:16 Intro
03:16-05:04 The Theology of Preaching
05:04-09:17 The high calling of being a preacher of God's Word
09:17-10:30 God has chosen to speak
10:30-13:58 God has chosen surrogate voices
13:58-18:45 What is preaching?
18:45-30:47 The purpose of the Church
30:47-37:31 Can you share the message of Jesus online?
37:31-38:47 Outro

TRANSCRIPT
Nick Clason (00:00):
Well, hey there everybody. Welcome to another episode of the Hybrid Ministry podcast. I am your host, Nick Clason, excited to be here with you. And I just wanted to invite you, if you have not yet, check out our website http://www.hybridministry.xyz. If you didn't know, we have complete show transcripts that we have created a hundred percent just for you. Um, those are a hundred percent free for you. They're not free to produce, but they are a free gift that we do for every single episode. So if you're like me, where you probably are listening while you're driving or running or exercising or cooking or biking, and then you hear something and you want to, uh, recall it or write it down or take a note or quote or something like that, you can do that through the transcripts. Now, full disclosure, the transcripts are AI and automated automatically generated.

Nick Clason (00:57):
And so sometimes they're not the most reliably transcribed, but they are still a good tool and you usually be able to figure out and get to the right place. with those other thing I wanna invite you to do is if you have not yet checked out our 100% free ebook that we created, called Have I Ruined My Church's TikTok account just yet? You know, there's a lot of speculation, um, and maybe worry when you log onto TikTok, like, am I doing this right? Is this how this is supposed to look? Did I do this thing wrong? And I just wanna encourage you to grab this ebook, and the answer is probably no. Um, but we'll help you, we'll help you, uh, take your first step post your first TikTok, because the world of vertical and short form video content is not going anywhere.

Nick Clason (01:51):
Um, in fact, it is so saturated in all of the major markets, TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube, that for the first time in a very long time, you can post identical content on all four of those platforms. And they will not ding you, they will not take away because you're posting something that was built for another platform while short form and vertical video content was made popular by TikTok. The other platforms are all trying to chase that down and bring that this discovery algorithm into their framework. And so they are Fran frantically trying to make that a reality and trying to make that happen. And so, um, the church has a unique opportunity to not only grow on social media, but take a medium and a platform that prioritizes this, uh, short form video content speaking directly into a camera. Um, which is something that the church has the ability to do quite easily.

Nick Clason (02:52):
Like if you think about it in the past, right? Uh, churches would have, uh, so like have to figure out a way to make graphics, figure out a way to have to get photographers. But now a pastor is actually probably someone who's pretty well versed in communicating to people, and that's what is happening in these short form video, uh, pieces of content. And so it's a really unique, um, and really unprecedented time in the church. So, with all that being said, excited to have you today. Today I want to talk about the theology of preaching. Now, you might be thinking this is not a digital topic. And the reason that I think it's a digital topic is because I think that, um, the teacher, the preacher has, um, the ability and perhaps even responsibility to use social media to spread and share the message of Jesus.

Nick Clason (03:46):
Um, and so the reason I wanted to do this deep dive into preaching is because I wanted to make sure that as I read through an examined different sections and pieces of the New Testament, that I was not speaking out of turn, um, and saying something that, uh, was not theologically accurate, you know, in the land of, well, per like, I guess the anticipated argument, and, and in fairness, I haven't really heard this from anybody, but I wanted to make sure that I, um, wasn't saying something that was not a hundred percent biblically or theologically true. Because again, like I said, I haven't said it yet, but I've circled around this idea. My anticipated idea or anticipated argument was that people might say preaching has to take place in the fabric and context of local church and local community. And so I wanted to examine cuz I wasn't sure that that's actually what was said, um, in the New Testament.

Nick Clason (04:50):
And so I wanted, but I wanted to see it for myself. Obviously, I wanted to look at the text and I didn't wanna just go off what I thought or believed or, um, was mostly sure to be true. So let's take a look at the Theology of preaching. So in 1980, a book called Biblical Preaching came out by Hadden Robinson. That was, that was my, um, textbook for, I believe it was Homiletics. Um, which homiletics is the actual, uh, practice or act of delivering a sermon. And so I went to that book, um, and the book is very much a, uh, pro dispositional preaching style verse by verse type of thing. And so he's, he's really building that case the entire way through. And so there's, you know, there's, um, a couple of introductory ideas in the first chapter about what is preaching. Um, but then after that it really dives into the, the ex dispositional side of things and how, how you should focus on that.

Nick Clason (05:58):
But one of the quotes that I found interesting that Hadden Robinson said was he said, Hey, one should think twice and twice again before nominating himself to that company of preachers. And, um, obviously, um, he's borrowing that from James chapter three, verse one, where James writes, dear brothers and sisters, not many of you should become teachers in the church for me, or sorry, for we who teach will be judged more strictly this, this responsibility of, um, standing in the gap between God who has a message and his people as a preacher or as a prophet as they were in the Old Testament. That is a high responsibility, and those people are going to be judged more harshly. And so Robinson is saying you should think twice and maybe twice again before you, uh, attempt to step into this. It's not just something about glamorous, not just something about, um, you know, like being known noticed, like this is a really high calling.

Nick Clason (07:00):
And so I think that it's really important for whoever is listening to this, whether if you're like a social media manager and you are a person on camera a lot, or if you're pulling, um, audio clips or video clips from your pastor's sermons, the the fact remains the same that whoever that person is, and then if, if you are an actual pastor who's doing the, the recording, you will be judged more harshly. So, so take that responsibility for what it is worth, right? Like, it's very important. Matthew Simpson, um, he wrote this. He said, his throne is the pulpit, and he talking about the preacher stands in Christ's stead. His message is the word of God around him are immortal souls. The savior unseen is beside him. The Holy Spirit broods over the congregation, angels gaze upon the scene in heaven, and hell await the issue, await the sermon.

Nick Clason (08:00):
And so, uh, same thing, right? Like it's just talking about the, the priority. It's talking about the the level of weight that is on whoever is preaching. All right? And so, uh, I will, uh, throw, uh, a lot of notes, um, a lot of links into the show notes. I'll throw Had and Robinson's, um, link to that book if you wanna check that out. Um, I also found a bunch of articles online that I found pretty helpful. Um, one was from a ministry magazine article. And, um, I just wanna give you a couple of the highlights from that magazine that talk about the importance of preaching. Again, in almost all of these articles are almost all these books, the assumption is that preaching is done in a physical context behind a physical pulpit to a physical congregation. And by no means am I trying to build or make a case that says that that should go away, okay?

Nick Clason (08:51):
But what I am trying to build and make a case and open a door for is can preaching or can sharing the message of Jesus, can that also be done using different methods and mediums, such as an online medium, uh, like short form, video content, YouTube, TikTok, whatever the case might be. All right? So here's some of the high, uh, high level takeaways from this Ministry magazine article about preaching. All right? So the first thing at a very basic foundational level is this, is that God has chosen to speak. We see in Genesis chapter one, 10 different times it was recorded, it says, God said, we also see five different times in that same chapter of Genesis chapter one, that God called and so to God, words are very important. In fact, his entire creation was speaking. And then the thing, existing plants, animals, light, darkness, day, night, moon, stars, sun, all of that was given to us by the voice and word of God to God, words and breath and speaking, it matters, and it plays an, a pretty important role in the narrative of human history.

Nick Clason (10:08):
Furthermore, uh, God breathed into Adam and gave him his life. And Psalm 33, 6 says, by the word of the Lord, the heavens were made, the host of them and the breath of his mouth. And so, God, there is a very important and, and critical role in the fact that God has even chosen to speak. So God's chosen to speak. God has also called for surrogate voices to, to speak on his behalf. Preaching by the prophets was a, a way of warning the people to get their act together or to, to watch out for some sort of impending judgment that was going to happen because they had not been obeyed. See, God is love, and he's giving all, um, opportunity for mankind to experience and come to salvation. One Timothy chapter two, verse four says, who wants God? Who wants everyone to be saved and to understand the truth?

Nick Clason (11:08):
Romans 10 13 through 16 says this. It says, so everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. But how can they call on, on him to save him unless they believe in him? How can they believe in him if they've never heard about him? How can they hear about him unless someone tells them? And how will anyone go and tell them without being sent? So that's why the scripture says, how beautiful are the feet of the messengers who bring the good news? But not everyone who welcomes the good news for Isaiah, the prophet said, Lord, who has believed our message? See, there's power in the words. There's power in being saved through the words. And God has a desire for humans to come to that understanding. The, the, the reality is this, is that the, the power comes from you and my and your preacher or whoever.

Nick Clason (12:00):
The power comes from that person's individual life. It's about the words that are said, but there's power and weight behind it. If there's authority, integrity, um, if, if, if the message is coming from the overflow of somebody's heart, of somebody's life, this, this message is not just about saying the message, right? There's obviously that, that verse where Paul says, uh, even if despite how the gospel is being preached, I rejoice because even if it's in vain, or even if it's not good or whatever, like it is still being preached. And that's true. But the, the more connected you and I and your pastor are connected to the vine, John chapter 15, if, uh, we are connected to the vine, you're reminded that Jesus says, um, apart from me, you can do nothing. Ian Bounds has a quote that says, the sermon is made in the closet.

Nick Clason (12:59):
The man, God's man is made in the closet. And so then at that point, you and I get to take this idea from Romans chapter 10 or for Timothy chapter two, um, and share it with other people. God desires for all men to come to an understanding. We, we get to be the feet that carry the message to the people who have not heard. How sweet are the feet of those who carry that message, however, is the person's personal life is our personal life, is our heart, is we have the gut check in place because it's really easy on social media, it's really easy on TikTok to get vanity metrics and vanity views and feel like we're actually doing something when in reality we maybe aren't doing anything and we're chasing after selfish gain or selfish motive. So like Ian Bound says, the real sermon, the real is made in his private life in a closet.

Nick Clason (13:59):
All right, so I got some more articles. Um, what is is preaching, um, I, I, I searched what is preaching, and a quote from, uh, thabiti on Yawe says this. He says, preaching is God speaking in the power of his spirit, about his son from his word through a man. Thessalonians chapter one verse form five says four, we know brothers loved by God that he has chosen you because our gospel came to you not simply with words, but also with power, with the Holy Spirit and with deep conviction. First Thessalonians two 13. And we also thank God continually because when you receive the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it as it actually is the word of God. God himself spoke through Paul's preaching, which is at, which is at work in you who believe power is in the word. Um, and also in the messenger, right?

Nick Clason (14:59):
First Peter, chapter four, 10 through 11, each one should use whatever gift he has received to serve others faithfully, faithfully, admonishing God's grace in its various forms. And if anyone speaks, you should do so as one speaking the very words of God. And then Matthew chapter 10, verse 19 through 20, when they arrest you, do not worry about what to say or how to say it. Cuz at that time, you'll be given what to say for it will not be you, uh, speaking, but it will be the spirit of your, uh, father speaking through you had Robinson Hadden. Robinson says this, he says, preach means to cry out Harold or exhort, second Timothy, chapter four, verse two. So preaching should so stir a man that he pours out the message with passion and fervor. See, scripture already has authority. And so Robinson's argument, right, like I was saying, is one for expository preaching, which obviously he's speaking and writing this with a mindset of, uh, really I feel like he's arguing expository versus, uh, like topical or whatever.

Nick Clason (16:10):
And he's also arguing it with the assumption that this is taking place within the context of a local church with a pastor who's standing behind a pulpit who has the word of God open in front of him, and he's preaching out of it. And he's saying that the authority comes from the word of God. And so if we're going to take that and transfer this to a digital format, the same is true. You see, it's really easy, especially on TikTok. It's all about quick and the hook and about capturing attention. And I think those things are true. And by the way, those things are still true for live preaching in the room sermons, um, capturing people's attention, making sure it's relevant, taking what is true in God's word, and also making it true in their life or relevant in their life. However, the authority, the intersection there between, uh, the word of God and the relevancy, um, of the, of, uh, the message, the intersection of that needs to be God's word.

Nick Clason (17:01):
That is where the authority falls and comes from. All right, so back to Robinson, right? An expository definition. Um, he says this, he says, so, so the passage, uh, governs the sermon. The expository communicates a concept. The concept then comes from the text. The concept is applied to the expository. And then, um, the concept is then applied to the hearer. Okay? And so oftentimes a complaint about expository preaching is that it's not very relatable, it's boring, it's dry. Okay? Check out this quote from Robinson. I found it incredibly eye-opening, especially as I'm doing this research in light of, can this be a digital means a digital format? He said, seldom do normal people lose sleep over the, the jutes, the Canaanites or the, the parasites. Uh, or even about what Abraham, Moses or Paul had said or done. He said, what they do lie awake, wondering is about grocery prices, crop failures, corals with a girlfriend, the diagnosis of malignancy, of frustrating sex life, the rat race where the rat only seems to ever win.

Nick Clason (18:10):
So if a sermon does not make much difference in that world, they wonder if it makes any difference at all. And I would say, and I would make the argument that the same is true if you're going to try and preach and share the message of hope of Jesus online, cuz people are, are not scrolling through TikTok worried about the JB besides Canaanite pairs, that's Abraham, Moses, or Paul. But what they will care about is when you can take those things and make them relevant and apply them back over to the worries, the frustrations, the day-to-day life, things that are causing them concern.

Nick Clason (18:47):
So all of that is about preaching. All of that is about good fact that God chose to speak, he uses surrogate voices and preaching must inspire, um, and be relevant for people, uh, to take the message and apply it back over to their lives. The question then is, what is the role of preaching in the church? And is preaching an exclusive thing that can only happen in the context of a local church body, right? Then that would be, that would be, um, pretty important to, to figure out, um, especially in light of, of this argument. And, you know, in a lot of cases, I, I feel as though my audience, and if this isn't you, that's obviously fine. You're obviously welcome here. You can, can learn and from what we're talking about, but I feel in a lot of ways my audience is aimed at a person who is already in a local church, um, who's working for a local church and who's already seeing a lot of these things sort of like happening and take place.

Nick Clason (19:48):
The question I have then is, what is the purpose of the local church? You know, we went into that a little bit in the last episode, so I'll drop the link to that in the show notes. Uh, I also then looked up, um, an article I found on, um, desiring god.org, which is John Piper's website, and he has seven qualifications for the church. So he has seven qualifications and a averse or two that sort of like, uh, support it. And so I also look those verses up and I'm gonna read those verses when I'm done, um, so that you understand where he's getting his, his basis for. So he's, he's making a statement, um, and tying it to a, a scripture. And I'm gonna read the actual scripture so that you hear that scripture, um, as well, not just like the reference to, okay, so the first thing that he says, he says that people must give evidence in the remember, uh, the basis for local church.

Nick Clason (20:39):
Um, so number one basis for a local church, or what is a local church, that people must give evidence that they are believers, that they, they trust Jesus as their savior and Lord, the New Testament makes it very clear that we are adopted into the family of God through our faith. And that comes from John chapter one, verse 12 and 13, but to all who believe him and accept him, he gave the right to become children of God. They're reborn not with physical birth resulting from human passion or pl or a plan, but a birth that comes from God. The second basis, the second qualification of a local church is that people must be baptized. Jesus commanded a Matthew chapter 28, verse 19, that the way to make disciples was to baptize them and to teach them. And this was the uniform practice in the early church.

Nick Clason (21:21):
Matthew 28 19 says, therefore, go make disciples of all nations, baptiz them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. The third basis for the local church is that there must be a regular assembly. A group of people who only came together, say once a year, could not rightly be called a local church because they are a central activities of the church, which lose their meaning when not done corporately. So therefore, Hebrews 10 25 commands us not to neglect meeting together to hear. Hebrews 10 25 says this, let us not neglect our meeting together as some people do, but encourage one another, especially now that the day of his return is drawing near. Uh, just a quick pause here. I would say in a lot of ways, I think the gathering together, um, a lot of it is not, um, at this point in 2023, is not necessarily for information transfer.

Nick Clason (22:11):
I think, um, that that has been solved through means like podcasting and YouTube videos and, um, people can even listen to worship music on Spotify. Now, I think one of the major factors of the local church is for this is for encouragement. I think that life is hard. I think that people are lonely. And I think that coming together in a gathering, in a regular gathering is for encouragement. Um, that complicates things a little bit when most churches gather together to sit down in rows and look ahead and watch a person talk for a half an hour. And I think that's where I can make the argument that you can take that same content that you're delivering in a 30 minute sermon and distribute it and disseminate it out online. You can also do it in that format. But I think that there should be something meaningful there for the regular assembly, that there should be some sort of encouragement.

Nick Clason (23:04):
A lot of churches have Sunday school classes or small groups that meet to do that and to fill that, to fulfill that function. And I just think that, um, we have made that a second tier priority, um, in the church. And I think in 2023 and beyond, with information and all-time high and an all-time level of availability, I think that what people really want and need and are looking for is that encouragement. So I'll continue going on. Uh, the fourth marker of a local church is, it says, among these meetings, there must be, um, gathering for worship. This follows inevitably from the ultimate value placed on Jesus Christ who calls us together from our rela uh, relation to God. Through him, the church is destined to live, uh, to the praise of God's glory. Ephesians chapter one, verse six, 12 and 14, and therefore, it will contradict our nature not to assemble for worship.

Nick Clason (24:00):
Um, acts chapter two, uh, 47, and then Romans 15, six through seven. So Ephesians 1, 6, 12, and 14 says, so we praise God for the glorious grace that he has poured out on us who belonged to his dear son. Verse 12, God's purpose was that we, Jews who are the first to trust Christ would bring praise and glory to God. And verse 14, the spirit of God's guarantee that he will give us inheritance. He promised that he has purchased us to be his own people. He did this so that we would praise and glorify him. So because of what he did right, we would, we would as a result, praise and glorify him. And, and because of that, then Piper is making the argument that that's the church should be, um, built on worship and adoration and, and praise of God. Acts chapter two verse, uh, acts 2 20 47.

Nick Clason (24:50):
Acts 2 47 says, all while praising God and enjoying the goodwill of all the people, and each day the Lord added to their fellowship, those who are being saved, Romans 15, six and seven, then all of you can join together with one voice giving praise and glory to God the father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, accept each other just as Christ has accepted you, so that God will be given all the glory. The fifth marker of the church. Our meetings must include exhortation from the word of God, right? This is pay attentional to this one. This is really what this entire podcast is centered on. Um, we were born and new through the living and abiding and the word of God, first Peter 1 23. And our life in Christ is preserved not by bread alone, but by every word that precedes out of the mouth of God.

Nick Clason (25:35):
Matthew four, four, the shepherds of the church are the provision that God has made for feeding his sheep. Therefore, we strive not to be the church where the word of God is neglected. First Peter one twenty three, for you have been born again, but not to a life that will quickly end. Your new life will last forever because it comes from the eternal living word of God. Matthew four, four, Jesus told Satan, no, the scriptures say, please people or not, not please people do not live on bread alone, but by every word that precedes out of the mouth of God. Um, I do think that God has put pastors and shepherds in place to help feed his sheep, but I think that that really the role and mission of the church is, um, as Paul says in Ephesians is, is to equip the saints for works and acts of service.

Nick Clason (26:17):
And so I think in a lot of ways also it says in, I can't remember, I didn't write this one down first or second Peter, that we have everything we need for life and godliness, where a priesthood of all believers. And so people who believe in God should be given the tools to feed themselves to grow in their own faith on their own. And so, yes, I believe that you should gather together to hear a preacher who's poured over a week and remember the, the, the, the power from the word of God comes from the private, private life of the preacher, all that. However, I think the preacher should also be not just teaching the person, uh, like giving them a fish, right? But teaching them how to fish so that they can have that lifetime of learning. And we have, and I think that that a lot, a lot of that learning, um, with that requires some discernment.

Nick Clason (27:00):
Like especially with so much out there, social media, articles, whatever the case might be. Uh, I think the, one of the main things that needs to take place is discernment. Like how do you know if you believe this? If, if this article you're reading lines up matches up with your belief in God and if your, and if it lines up with what the Bible actually has to say. So how do you take what the Bible has to say and and weigh that and measure that against what you're reading, what you're consuming, what you're listening to. So, uh, I'll continue on number six, along with worship and the exoration, we must celebrate in the Lord's supper in order to be the church. We're committed to do this in remembrance of Christ. Luke 2219 and first Corinthians 11, four, neglecting this ordinance might seem, uh, inconsequential at first, but I think a church will bleed to death through the amputation.

Nick Clason (27:49):
Luke 2219 says, then Jesus took some bread, gave thanks to God, broke it in in pieces, and he gave it to his disciples saying, this is my body which is given to you. Do this in remembrance of me, first Corinthians 1124, and give, and gave thanks to God for it. Then he broke it in pieces and said, this is my body, which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me. This is a gigantic argument for the importance of physical gathering. You, you really cannot partake in the Lord's supper together as a, as a body of Christ without a physical gathering together. You can, um, church has that before, took communion every single week. And so as a part of their online experience, they would encourage people to grab crackers and juice and do it in their homes. And we did that during Covid cuz that was required necessary.

Nick Clason (28:30):
But I think that there's something about doing it in a communal way. Again, I would not, I would argue though, that like when we're sitting in rows and the pastor comes out on stage and leads everyone through communion, I, I don't know that that's really communal, like you're together. But is that actually what he was just talking about there? And that's where, that's where I think the, the, the 21st century American breakdown from church is a has been away from family and more towards a theater or observatory way of church. And that's what I'm saying, encouragement and communal and all these things that, that do happen within the context of a physical church gathering. I do think that it's, it's not actually being played out that way. So you can make that argument like, well, yeah, you need to be together and whatever, but like when I'm sitting in a row, shoulder to shoulder and staring at the back of someone's head, I'm not really getting to know them, not really doing that thing that way.

Nick Clason (29:22):
Um, that's just how we have come to land here out of, out of history. Like historically this, we've been doing it this way, so we're doing it this way again, as opposed to like really, like I said, leaning into less on the information side cuz information's now much more available, but more leaning more into the relational side. Last thing, um, from Piper's article, finally, all of this must take place with the, with the guidance of duly appointed leaders. Paul appointed elders in all churches, acts 1423. He gave instructions about the qualifications of deacons and elders in first Timothy three and tied this one. Full disclosure, I did not write those out, so you can go check those out on your own if you want. And he said that Christ had given pastors teachers to the church to equip the saints for ministry. Ephesians four, one through 12.

Nick Clason (30:13):
I referenced that earlier. Uh, there have always been disagreements about what to call these leaders and how to organize them, but they must be present in a group in order for that group to be a church. Historic Christianity has always affirmed this. So Acts 14, Palm Barnabas also appointed elders in every church with prayer and fasting. They turn the elders over to the care of the Lord in whom they'd put their trust. And then Ephesians for one through 12, therefore I prisoner for serving the Lord beg you to lead a life worthy of your calling. You've been called by God and their responsibility is to equip God's people to do his work and to build up the church, the body of Christ.

Nick Clason (30:50):
All right, so with all that, with all those different pieces of, of writing and articles and excerpts from books, what's the conclusion? So what I believe very strongly is that the church is God's plan, a for redeeming his people. Matthew chapter 16, Caesarea Philippi upon Peter's proclamation that Jesus is the Christ, the son of the living God. Jesus says upon this, I will build my church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it. And so, uh, not only is the church going to be successful, but also it is God's plan, a for bringing about redemption and restoration to his people. I also believe that the church should include as Piper laid out elements of worship and teaching. And as I said in the last podcast, living out the one another's, he said it in one of his points about the importance of encouragement of meeting together.

Nick Clason (31:51):
I think that there's a, like I said earlier, and I did a little sidebar, uh, earlier, I think there's a lot more there and I think there's a lot more opportunity for the church to be more encouraging in lifting up one another. And so I think it's, I think it's ultimately God's desire that everyone comes to a knowledge of salvation of him. And I also believe, and I, and I see it pretty clearly, that it's Jesus' command for us to go and make disciples teaching them. And and I think that's probably done through the context of community. Now, like I said, I think we can get it twisted and say when we're sitting in rows, the way that the church has been set up for, for a century or longer now, that that's community because we're in the room together. And I don't actually think that that's the most effective form of community.

Nick Clason (32:43):
And I think most pastors would say that's not the most effective form of community. However, no one has really tried to break that. Um, and if they do, they're often considered sort of like hippies and people just trying to be like super offshoot of Christianity, right? But people who live, um, best in the context of community, people who have committed to a local assembly, a local body, a local acc, the church, um, those people are the ones who then can live out this command from Jesus to both be discipled and to be discipling others, teaching them about the commands of Jesus. And that's not just the pastor's job, it's the pastor's job to help equip set up framework, um, do this under the, the guidance and assembly and all these things. Okay? But in addition to the content from God's word, there's an encouragement of one another that needs to be lived out and needs to be expressed.

Nick Clason (33:40):
And however, I think in addition to all of that, we see Paul and we see Jesus and we see his disciples, like when Jesus sends out the 72, that they have a high level of urgency and priority to go and share the gospel to the people that have not yet heard the message of Jesus. And I do believe that digital vertical, short form video, long form video, audio podcasting, TikTok, is today's opportunity to help go out into the fray infringes to share the message of help found in the gospel. Like, like Paul, right? Almost every one of his letters was written to a church that he was not in physical proximity to. He had a relationship with them, he had met them before, maybe he hadn't, he just heard about 'em in a couple cases. But he sends and uses the, the communication means and effort of his day and age, and he uses it to get in contact with different churches.

Nick Clason (34:44):
And I believe that TikTok is today's opportunity to share the message of hope that's found in the gospel if we're borrowing from the marketing world and looking at like a funnel, right? Like the top of the funnel is the widest, and that's the awareness phase. And then people might move into a consideration phase and then a conversion phase, and then to the fact down in the lowest part of the funnel, um, where they are expressing loyalty. And then finally, they are expressing a advocacy. And I think that the church can, um, follow a similar way. And I think that that TikTok, I think that social media often is a top of the funnel type of thing. I don't know that you are gonna pray with anybody to receive Christ over TikTok. You might, and that'd be an amazing story. But I think in a lot of ways a person is, is hovering around the top of the funnel, gaining an awareness of Jesus, um, and, and maybe even your church, and then moving down that funnel more and more and more until finally I take a step into real live, authentic personal community.

Nick Clason (35:44):
And the church world is very similar. Jesus set up the very same framework, right? Jesus said, um, Hey, explore who I am, where he, where he gives the invitation to Andrew and John, and he says, come and see. And then out of that, he, he allows them to follow him or, or connect with him and with some other disciples. And then he really ch he leans in, he challenges them, goes from following me to, I will make you, I will change you, um, make you into fishes of men. And that's what we see a lot of the growth of them internally. And then finally, the most growth is when he turns and pivots and he says, now it's your job to go and multiply. And that's why we see much joy out of Jesus when the 72 come back, because the 72 is the, the second and third and fourth generation of disciples.

Nick Clason (36:31):
It's not just his disciples, the ones that we know, the ones that are listed, Peter, James, John, Andrew. But it's, it's their disciples, the ones that they've shared the message with. Those 72 go out and they also bear much fruit. That's the framework that Jesus has built up for multiplication. And so, um, we can, as the church, we can lean into that come and see, and that follow me, those entry level places. And in a lot of times those have been set up in physical gatherings in the worship environment. And that is a place where people can come and explore. But I think, um, in today's day and age, they're also doing a lot of that exploration in the palm of their hands, on their phones, on their devices and on their screens. And they're looking at their, at their phones. They're asking questions about, who is this man?

Nick Clason (37:13):
Jesus, what is this you say about faith? And as they're scrolling through TikTok to yes, be entertained and to yes, find another silly video or whatever they're looking for, they might also find something meaningful, something spiritual and something where you can say, Hey, come and see. Hey, listen guys, I hope you found this episode helpful. Uh, it was a deep dive. Um, it was heavy and there was a lot of, uh, scripture and quotes and stuff like that. And so, um, I will post, um, all the links to everything I've done in the show notes. Of course, there's free transcripts and you know what I'll do, I'll include my notes for this, um, in the, the notes as well. So you can get all that over at hybridministry.xyz. Go grab the ebook, go watch the YouTube video and how to post. And um, guys, listen, there is a lost and dying world out there, and that's why this is so important, not for you to get a thousand million hundred views on a TikTok video, but so that people who don't have a relationship with Jesus come to an understanding of a relationship with Jesus.

Nick Clason (38:15):
And maybe just, maybe that's through you giving them an opportunity to explore and open the door. So keep doing what you're doing, blessings on you and your ministry, and we'll talk again.

]]> In this episode, Nick takes his listeners on a journey through his deep dive on asking the question "Is Digital a valid method to preach God's word to the world?" He explores what preaching is, the ways in which God has spoken over the years, the purpose of the church and then ultimately gives a conclusion!

SHOWNOTES
For all things Hybrid Ministry head to http://www.hybridministry.xyz
Hangout with Nick:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9pjecCnd8FVFCenWharf2g
https://www.tiktok.com/@clasonnick

FREE E-Book: "Have I already Ruined my TikTok Account?"
https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/ebook

The Best YouTube strategy for 2023 and Beyond!
https://www.hybridministry.xyz/021

TIMECODES
00:00-03:16 Intro
03:16-05:04 The Theology of Preaching
05:04-09:17 The high calling of being a preacher of God's Word
09:17-10:30 God has chosen to speak
10:30-13:58 God has chosen surrogate voices
13:58-18:45 What is preaching?
18:45-30:47 The purpose of the Church
30:47-37:31 Can you share the message of Jesus online?
37:31-38:47 Outro

TRANSCRIPT
Nick Clason (00:00):
Well, hey there everybody. Welcome to another episode of the Hybrid Ministry podcast. I am your host, Nick Clason, excited to be here with you. And I just wanted to invite you, if you have not yet, check out our website http://www.hybridministry.xyz. If you didn't know, we have complete show transcripts that we have created a hundred percent just for you. Um, those are a hundred percent free for you. They're not free to produce, but they are a free gift that we do for every single episode. So if you're like me, where you probably are listening while you're driving or running or exercising or cooking or biking, and then you hear something and you want to, uh, recall it or write it down or take a note or quote or something like that, you can do that through the transcripts. Now, full disclosure, the transcripts are AI and automated automatically generated.

Nick Clason (00:57):
And so sometimes they're not the most reliably transcribed, but they are still a good tool and you usually be able to figure out and get to the right place. with those other thing I wanna invite you to do is if you have not yet checked out our 100% free ebook that we created, called Have I Ruined My Church's TikTok account just yet? You know, there's a lot of speculation, um, and maybe worry when you log onto TikTok, like, am I doing this right? Is this how this is supposed to look? Did I do this thing wrong? And I just wanna encourage you to grab this ebook, and the answer is probably no. Um, but we'll help you, we'll help you, uh, take your first step post your first TikTok, because the world of vertical and short form video content is not going anywhere.

Nick Clason (01:51):
Um, in fact, it is so saturated in all of the major markets, TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube, that for the first time in a very long time, you can post identical content on all four of those platforms. And they will not ding you, they will not take away because you're posting something that was built for another platform while short form and vertical video content was made popular by TikTok. The other platforms are all trying to chase that down and bring that this discovery algorithm into their framework. And so they are Fran frantically trying to make that a reality and trying to make that happen. And so, um, the church has a unique opportunity to not only grow on social media, but take a medium and a platform that prioritizes this, uh, short form video content speaking directly into a camera. Um, which is something that the church has the ability to do quite easily.

Nick Clason (02:52):
Like if you think about it in the past, right? Uh, churches would have, uh, so like have to figure out a way to make graphics, figure out a way to have to get photographers. But now a pastor is actually probably someone who's pretty well versed in communicating to people, and that's what is happening in these short form video, uh, pieces of content. And so it's a really unique, um, and really unprecedented time in the church. So, with all that being said, excited to have you today. Today I want to talk about the theology of preaching. Now, you might be thinking this is not a digital topic. And the reason that I think it's a digital topic is because I think that, um, the teacher, the preacher has, um, the ability and perhaps even responsibility to use social media to spread and share the message of Jesus.

Nick Clason (03:46):
Um, and so the reason I wanted to do this deep dive into preaching is because I wanted to make sure that as I read through an examined different sections and pieces of the New Testament, that I was not speaking out of turn, um, and saying something that, uh, was not theologically accurate, you know, in the land of, well, per like, I guess the anticipated argument, and, and in fairness, I haven't really heard this from anybody, but I wanted to make sure that I, um, wasn't saying something that was not a hundred percent biblically or theologically true. Because again, like I said, I haven't said it yet, but I've circled around this idea. My anticipated idea or anticipated argument was that people might say preaching has to take place in the fabric and context of local church and local community. And so I wanted to examine cuz I wasn't sure that that's actually what was said, um, in the New Testament.

Nick Clason (04:50):
And so I wanted, but I wanted to see it for myself. Obviously, I wanted to look at the text and I didn't wanna just go off what I thought or believed or, um, was mostly sure to be true. So let's take a look at the Theology of preaching. So in 1980, a book called Biblical Preaching came out by Hadden Robinson. That was, that was my, um, textbook for, I believe it was Homiletics. Um, which homiletics is the actual, uh, practice or act of delivering a sermon. And so I went to that book, um, and the book is very much a, uh, pro dispositional preaching style verse by verse type of thing. And so he's, he's really building that case the entire way through. And so there's, you know, there's, um, a couple of introductory ideas in the first chapter about what is preaching. Um, but then after that it really dives into the, the ex dispositional side of things and how, how you should focus on that.

Nick Clason (05:58):
But one of the quotes that I found interesting that Hadden Robinson said was he said, Hey, one should think twice and twice again before nominating himself to that company of preachers. And, um, obviously, um, he's borrowing that from James chapter three, verse one, where James writes, dear brothers and sisters, not many of you should become teachers in the church for me, or sorry, for we who teach will be judged more strictly this, this responsibility of, um, standing in the gap between God who has a message and his people as a preacher or as a prophet as they were in the Old Testament. That is a high responsibility, and those people are going to be judged more harshly. And so Robinson is saying you should think twice and maybe twice again before you, uh, attempt to step into this. It's not just something about glamorous, not just something about, um, you know, like being known noticed, like this is a really high calling.

Nick Clason (07:00):
And so I think that it's really important for whoever is listening to this, whether if you're like a social media manager and you are a person on camera a lot, or if you're pulling, um, audio clips or video clips from your pastor's sermons, the the fact remains the same that whoever that person is, and then if, if you are an actual pastor who's doing the, the recording, you will be judged more harshly. So, so take that responsibility for what it is worth, right? Like, it's very important. Matthew Simpson, um, he wrote this. He said, his throne is the pulpit, and he talking about the preacher stands in Christ's stead. His message is the word of God around him are immortal souls. The savior unseen is beside him. The Holy Spirit broods over the congregation, angels gaze upon the scene in heaven, and hell await the issue, await the sermon.

Nick Clason (08:00):
And so, uh, same thing, right? Like it's just talking about the, the priority. It's talking about the the level of weight that is on whoever is preaching. All right? And so, uh, I will, uh, throw, uh, a lot of notes, um, a lot of links into the show notes. I'll throw Had and Robinson's, um, link to that book if you wanna check that out. Um, I also found a bunch of articles online that I found pretty helpful. Um, one was from a ministry magazine article. And, um, I just wanna give you a couple of the highlights from that magazine that talk about the importance of preaching. Again, in almost all of these articles are almost all these books, the assumption is that preaching is done in a physical context behind a physical pulpit to a physical congregation. And by no means am I trying to build or make a case that says that that should go away, okay?

Nick Clason (08:51):
But what I am trying to build and make a case and open a door for is can preaching or can sharing the message of Jesus, can that also be done using different methods and mediums, such as an online medium, uh, like short form, video content, YouTube, TikTok, whatever the case might be. All right? So here's some of the high, uh, high level takeaways from this Ministry magazine article about preaching. All right? So the first thing at a very basic foundational level is this, is that God has chosen to speak. We see in Genesis chapter one, 10 different times it was recorded, it says, God said, we also see five different times in that same chapter of Genesis chapter one, that God called and so to God, words are very important. In fact, his entire creation was speaking. And then the thing, existing plants, animals, light, darkness, day, night, moon, stars, sun, all of that was given to us by the voice and word of God to God, words and breath and speaking, it matters, and it plays an, a pretty important role in the narrative of human history.

Nick Clason (10:08):
Furthermore, uh, God breathed into Adam and gave him his life. And Psalm 33, 6 says, by the word of the Lord, the heavens were made, the host of them and the breath of his mouth. And so, God, there is a very important and, and critical role in the fact that God has even chosen to speak. So God's chosen to speak. God has also called for surrogate voices to, to speak on his behalf. Preaching by the prophets was a, a way of warning the people to get their act together or to, to watch out for some sort of impending judgment that was going to happen because they had not been obeyed. See, God is love, and he's giving all, um, opportunity for mankind to experience and come to salvation. One Timothy chapter two, verse four says, who wants God? Who wants everyone to be saved and to understand the truth?

Nick Clason (11:08):
Romans 10 13 through 16 says this. It says, so everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. But how can they call on, on him to save him unless they believe in him? How can they believe in him if they've never heard about him? How can they hear about him unless someone tells them? And how will anyone go and tell them without being sent? So that's why the scripture says, how beautiful are the feet of the messengers who bring the good news? But not everyone who welcomes the good news for Isaiah, the prophet said, Lord, who has believed our message? See, there's power in the words. There's power in being saved through the words. And God has a desire for humans to come to that understanding. The, the, the reality is this, is that the, the power comes from you and my and your preacher or whoever.

Nick Clason (12:00):
The power comes from that person's individual life. It's about the words that are said, but there's power and weight behind it. If there's authority, integrity, um, if, if, if the message is coming from the overflow of somebody's heart, of somebody's life, this, this message is not just about saying the message, right? There's obviously that, that verse where Paul says, uh, even if despite how the gospel is being preached, I rejoice because even if it's in vain, or even if it's not good or whatever, like it is still being preached. And that's true. But the, the more connected you and I and your pastor are connected to the vine, John chapter 15, if, uh, we are connected to the vine, you're reminded that Jesus says, um, apart from me, you can do nothing. Ian Bounds has a quote that says, the sermon is made in the closet.

Nick Clason (12:59):
The man, God's man is made in the closet. And so then at that point, you and I get to take this idea from Romans chapter 10 or for Timothy chapter two, um, and share it with other people. God desires for all men to come to an understanding. We, we get to be the feet that carry the message to the people who have not heard. How sweet are the feet of those who carry that message, however, is the person's personal life is our personal life, is our heart, is we have the gut check in place because it's really easy on social media, it's really easy on TikTok to get vanity metrics and vanity views and feel like we're actually doing something when in reality we maybe aren't doing anything and we're chasing after selfish gain or selfish motive. So like Ian Bound says, the real sermon, the real is made in his private life in a closet.

Nick Clason (13:59):
All right, so I got some more articles. Um, what is is preaching, um, I, I, I searched what is preaching, and a quote from, uh, thabiti on Yawe says this. He says, preaching is God speaking in the power of his spirit, about his son from his word through a man. Thessalonians chapter one verse form five says four, we know brothers loved by God that he has chosen you because our gospel came to you not simply with words, but also with power, with the Holy Spirit and with deep conviction. First Thessalonians two 13. And we also thank God continually because when you receive the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it as it actually is the word of God. God himself spoke through Paul's preaching, which is at, which is at work in you who believe power is in the word. Um, and also in the messenger, right?

Nick Clason (14:59):
First Peter, chapter four, 10 through 11, each one should use whatever gift he has received to serve others faithfully, faithfully, admonishing God's grace in its various forms. And if anyone speaks, you should do so as one speaking the very words of God. And then Matthew chapter 10, verse 19 through 20, when they arrest you, do not worry about what to say or how to say it. Cuz at that time, you'll be given what to say for it will not be you, uh, speaking, but it will be the spirit of your, uh, father speaking through you had Robinson Hadden. Robinson says this, he says, preach means to cry out Harold or exhort, second Timothy, chapter four, verse two. So preaching should so stir a man that he pours out the message with passion and fervor. See, scripture already has authority. And so Robinson's argument, right, like I was saying, is one for expository preaching, which obviously he's speaking and writing this with a mindset of, uh, really I feel like he's arguing expository versus, uh, like topical or whatever.

Nick Clason (16:10):
And he's also arguing it with the assumption that this is taking place within the context of a local church with a pastor who's standing behind a pulpit who has the word of God open in front of him, and he's preaching out of it. And he's saying that the authority comes from the word of God. And so if we're going to take that and transfer this to a digital format, the same is true. You see, it's really easy, especially on TikTok. It's all about quick and the hook and about capturing attention. And I think those things are true. And by the way, those things are still true for live preaching in the room sermons, um, capturing people's attention, making sure it's relevant, taking what is true in God's word, and also making it true in their life or relevant in their life. However, the authority, the intersection there between, uh, the word of God and the relevancy, um, of the, of, uh, the message, the intersection of that needs to be God's word.

Nick Clason (17:01):
That is where the authority falls and comes from. All right, so back to Robinson, right? An expository definition. Um, he says this, he says, so, so the passage, uh, governs the sermon. The expository communicates a concept. The concept then comes from the text. The concept is applied to the expository. And then, um, the concept is then applied to the hearer. Okay? And so oftentimes a complaint about expository preaching is that it's not very relatable, it's boring, it's dry. Okay? Check out this quote from Robinson. I found it incredibly eye-opening, especially as I'm doing this research in light of, can this be a digital means a digital format? He said, seldom do normal people lose sleep over the, the jutes, the Canaanites or the, the parasites. Uh, or even about what Abraham, Moses or Paul had said or done. He said, what they do lie awake, wondering is about grocery prices, crop failures, corals with a girlfriend, the diagnosis of malignancy, of frustrating sex life, the rat race where the rat only seems to ever win.

Nick Clason (18:10):
So if a sermon does not make much difference in that world, they wonder if it makes any difference at all. And I would say, and I would make the argument that the same is true if you're going to try and preach and share the message of hope of Jesus online, cuz people are, are not scrolling through TikTok worried about the JB besides Canaanite pairs, that's Abraham, Moses, or Paul. But what they will care about is when you can take those things and make them relevant and apply them back over to the worries, the frustrations, the day-to-day life, things that are causing them concern.

Nick Clason (18:47):
So all of that is about preaching. All of that is about good fact that God chose to speak, he uses surrogate voices and preaching must inspire, um, and be relevant for people, uh, to take the message and apply it back over to their lives. The question then is, what is the role of preaching in the church? And is preaching an exclusive thing that can only happen in the context of a local church body, right? Then that would be, that would be, um, pretty important to, to figure out, um, especially in light of, of this argument. And, you know, in a lot of cases, I, I feel as though my audience, and if this isn't you, that's obviously fine. You're obviously welcome here. You can, can learn and from what we're talking about, but I feel in a lot of ways my audience is aimed at a person who is already in a local church, um, who's working for a local church and who's already seeing a lot of these things sort of like happening and take place.

Nick Clason (19:48):
The question I have then is, what is the purpose of the local church? You know, we went into that a little bit in the last episode, so I'll drop the link to that in the show notes. Uh, I also then looked up, um, an article I found on, um, desiring god.org, which is John Piper's website, and he has seven qualifications for the church. So he has seven qualifications and a averse or two that sort of like, uh, support it. And so I also look those verses up and I'm gonna read those verses when I'm done, um, so that you understand where he's getting his, his basis for. So he's, he's making a statement, um, and tying it to a, a scripture. And I'm gonna read the actual scripture so that you hear that scripture, um, as well, not just like the reference to, okay, so the first thing that he says, he says that people must give evidence in the remember, uh, the basis for local church.

Nick Clason (20:39):
Um, so number one basis for a local church, or what is a local church, that people must give evidence that they are believers, that they, they trust Jesus as their savior and Lord, the New Testament makes it very clear that we are adopted into the family of God through our faith. And that comes from John chapter one, verse 12 and 13, but to all who believe him and accept him, he gave the right to become children of God. They're reborn not with physical birth resulting from human passion or pl or a plan, but a birth that comes from God. The second basis, the second qualification of a local church is that people must be baptized. Jesus commanded a Matthew chapter 28, verse 19, that the way to make disciples was to baptize them and to teach them. And this was the uniform practice in the early church.

Nick Clason (21:21):
Matthew 28 19 says, therefore, go make disciples of all nations, baptiz them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. The third basis for the local church is that there must be a regular assembly. A group of people who only came together, say once a year, could not rightly be called a local church because they are a central activities of the church, which lose their meaning when not done corporately. So therefore, Hebrews 10 25 commands us not to neglect meeting together to hear. Hebrews 10 25 says this, let us not neglect our meeting together as some people do, but encourage one another, especially now that the day of his return is drawing near. Uh, just a quick pause here. I would say in a lot of ways, I think the gathering together, um, a lot of it is not, um, at this point in 2023, is not necessarily for information transfer.

Nick Clason (22:11):
I think, um, that that has been solved through means like podcasting and YouTube videos and, um, people can even listen to worship music on Spotify. Now, I think one of the major factors of the local church is for this is for encouragement. I think that life is hard. I think that people are lonely. And I think that coming together in a gathering, in a regular gathering is for encouragement. Um, that complicates things a little bit when most churches gather together to sit down in rows and look ahead and watch a person talk for a half an hour. And I think that's where I can make the argument that you can take that same content that you're delivering in a 30 minute sermon and distribute it and disseminate it out online. You can also do it in that format. But I think that there should be something meaningful there for the regular assembly, that there should be some sort of encouragement.

Nick Clason (23:04):
A lot of churches have Sunday school classes or small groups that meet to do that and to fill that, to fulfill that function. And I just think that, um, we have made that a second tier priority, um, in the church. And I think in 2023 and beyond, with information and all-time high and an all-time level of availability, I think that what people really want and need and are looking for is that encouragement. So I'll continue going on. Uh, the fourth marker of a local church is, it says, among these meetings, there must be, um, gathering for worship. This follows inevitably from the ultimate value placed on Jesus Christ who calls us together from our rela uh, relation to God. Through him, the church is destined to live, uh, to the praise of God's glory. Ephesians chapter one, verse six, 12 and 14, and therefore, it will contradict our nature not to assemble for worship.

Nick Clason (24:00):
Um, acts chapter two, uh, 47, and then Romans 15, six through seven. So Ephesians 1, 6, 12, and 14 says, so we praise God for the glorious grace that he has poured out on us who belonged to his dear son. Verse 12, God's purpose was that we, Jews who are the first to trust Christ would bring praise and glory to God. And verse 14, the spirit of God's guarantee that he will give us inheritance. He promised that he has purchased us to be his own people. He did this so that we would praise and glorify him. So because of what he did right, we would, we would as a result, praise and glorify him. And, and because of that, then Piper is making the argument that that's the church should be, um, built on worship and adoration and, and praise of God. Acts chapter two verse, uh, acts 2 20 47.

Nick Clason (24:50):
Acts 2 47 says, all while praising God and enjoying the goodwill of all the people, and each day the Lord added to their fellowship, those who are being saved, Romans 15, six and seven, then all of you can join together with one voice giving praise and glory to God the father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, accept each other just as Christ has accepted you, so that God will be given all the glory. The fifth marker of the church. Our meetings must include exhortation from the word of God, right? This is pay attentional to this one. This is really what this entire podcast is centered on. Um, we were born and new through the living and abiding and the word of God, first Peter 1 23. And our life in Christ is preserved not by bread alone, but by every word that precedes out of the mouth of God.

Nick Clason (25:35):
Matthew four, four, the shepherds of the church are the provision that God has made for feeding his sheep. Therefore, we strive not to be the church where the word of God is neglected. First Peter one twenty three, for you have been born again, but not to a life that will quickly end. Your new life will last forever because it comes from the eternal living word of God. Matthew four, four, Jesus told Satan, no, the scriptures say, please people or not, not please people do not live on bread alone, but by every word that precedes out of the mouth of God. Um, I do think that God has put pastors and shepherds in place to help feed his sheep, but I think that that really the role and mission of the church is, um, as Paul says in Ephesians is, is to equip the saints for works and acts of service.

Nick Clason (26:17):
And so I think in a lot of ways also it says in, I can't remember, I didn't write this one down first or second Peter, that we have everything we need for life and godliness, where a priesthood of all believers. And so people who believe in God should be given the tools to feed themselves to grow in their own faith on their own. And so, yes, I believe that you should gather together to hear a preacher who's poured over a week and remember the, the, the, the power from the word of God comes from the private, private life of the preacher, all that. However, I think the preacher should also be not just teaching the person, uh, like giving them a fish, right? But teaching them how to fish so that they can have that lifetime of learning. And we have, and I think that that a lot, a lot of that learning, um, with that requires some discernment.

Nick Clason (27:00):
Like especially with so much out there, social media, articles, whatever the case might be. Uh, I think the, one of the main things that needs to take place is discernment. Like how do you know if you believe this? If, if this article you're reading lines up matches up with your belief in God and if your, and if it lines up with what the Bible actually has to say. So how do you take what the Bible has to say and and weigh that and measure that against what you're reading, what you're consuming, what you're listening to. So, uh, I'll continue on number six, along with worship and the exoration, we must celebrate in the Lord's supper in order to be the church. We're committed to do this in remembrance of Christ. Luke 2219 and first Corinthians 11, four, neglecting this ordinance might seem, uh, inconsequential at first, but I think a church will bleed to death through the amputation.

Nick Clason (27:49):
Luke 2219 says, then Jesus took some bread, gave thanks to God, broke it in in pieces, and he gave it to his disciples saying, this is my body which is given to you. Do this in remembrance of me, first Corinthians 1124, and give, and gave thanks to God for it. Then he broke it in pieces and said, this is my body, which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me. This is a gigantic argument for the importance of physical gathering. You, you really cannot partake in the Lord's supper together as a, as a body of Christ without a physical gathering together. You can, um, church has that before, took communion every single week. And so as a part of their online experience, they would encourage people to grab crackers and juice and do it in their homes. And we did that during Covid cuz that was required necessary.

Nick Clason (28:30):
But I think that there's something about doing it in a communal way. Again, I would not, I would argue though, that like when we're sitting in rows and the pastor comes out on stage and leads everyone through communion, I, I don't know that that's really communal, like you're together. But is that actually what he was just talking about there? And that's where, that's where I think the, the, the 21st century American breakdown from church is a has been away from family and more towards a theater or observatory way of church. And that's what I'm saying, encouragement and communal and all these things that, that do happen within the context of a physical church gathering. I do think that it's, it's not actually being played out that way. So you can make that argument like, well, yeah, you need to be together and whatever, but like when I'm sitting in a row, shoulder to shoulder and staring at the back of someone's head, I'm not really getting to know them, not really doing that thing that way.

Nick Clason (29:22):
Um, that's just how we have come to land here out of, out of history. Like historically this, we've been doing it this way, so we're doing it this way again, as opposed to like really, like I said, leaning into less on the information side cuz information's now much more available, but more leaning more into the relational side. Last thing, um, from Piper's article, finally, all of this must take place with the, with the guidance of duly appointed leaders. Paul appointed elders in all churches, acts 1423. He gave instructions about the qualifications of deacons and elders in first Timothy three and tied this one. Full disclosure, I did not write those out, so you can go check those out on your own if you want. And he said that Christ had given pastors teachers to the church to equip the saints for ministry. Ephesians four, one through 12.

Nick Clason (30:13):
I referenced that earlier. Uh, there have always been disagreements about what to call these leaders and how to organize them, but they must be present in a group in order for that group to be a church. Historic Christianity has always affirmed this. So Acts 14, Palm Barnabas also appointed elders in every church with prayer and fasting. They turn the elders over to the care of the Lord in whom they'd put their trust. And then Ephesians for one through 12, therefore I prisoner for serving the Lord beg you to lead a life worthy of your calling. You've been called by God and their responsibility is to equip God's people to do his work and to build up the church, the body of Christ.

Nick Clason (30:50):
All right, so with all that, with all those different pieces of, of writing and articles and excerpts from books, what's the conclusion? So what I believe very strongly is that the church is God's plan, a for redeeming his people. Matthew chapter 16, Caesarea Philippi upon Peter's proclamation that Jesus is the Christ, the son of the living God. Jesus says upon this, I will build my church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it. And so, uh, not only is the church going to be successful, but also it is God's plan, a for bringing about redemption and restoration to his people. I also believe that the church should include as Piper laid out elements of worship and teaching. And as I said in the last podcast, living out the one another's, he said it in one of his points about the importance of encouragement of meeting together.

Nick Clason (31:51):
I think that there's a, like I said earlier, and I did a little sidebar, uh, earlier, I think there's a lot more there and I think there's a lot more opportunity for the church to be more encouraging in lifting up one another. And so I think it's, I think it's ultimately God's desire that everyone comes to a knowledge of salvation of him. And I also believe, and I, and I see it pretty clearly, that it's Jesus' command for us to go and make disciples teaching them. And and I think that's probably done through the context of community. Now, like I said, I think we can get it twisted and say when we're sitting in rows, the way that the church has been set up for, for a century or longer now, that that's community because we're in the room together. And I don't actually think that that's the most effective form of community.

Nick Clason (32:43):
And I think most pastors would say that's not the most effective form of community. However, no one has really tried to break that. Um, and if they do, they're often considered sort of like hippies and people just trying to be like super offshoot of Christianity, right? But people who live, um, best in the context of community, people who have committed to a local assembly, a local body, a local acc, the church, um, those people are the ones who then can live out this command from Jesus to both be discipled and to be discipling others, teaching them about the commands of Jesus. And that's not just the pastor's job, it's the pastor's job to help equip set up framework, um, do this under the, the guidance and assembly and all these things. Okay? But in addition to the content from God's word, there's an encouragement of one another that needs to be lived out and needs to be expressed.

Nick Clason (33:40):
And however, I think in addition to all of that, we see Paul and we see Jesus and we see his disciples, like when Jesus sends out the 72, that they have a high level of urgency and priority to go and share the gospel to the people that have not yet heard the message of Jesus. And I do believe that digital vertical, short form video, long form video, audio podcasting, TikTok, is today's opportunity to help go out into the fray infringes to share the message of help found in the gospel. Like, like Paul, right? Almost every one of his letters was written to a church that he was not in physical proximity to. He had a relationship with them, he had met them before, maybe he hadn't, he just heard about 'em in a couple cases. But he sends and uses the, the communication means and effort of his day and age, and he uses it to get in contact with different churches.

Nick Clason (34:44):
And I believe that TikTok is today's opportunity to share the message of hope that's found in the gospel if we're borrowing from the marketing world and looking at like a funnel, right? Like the top of the funnel is the widest, and that's the awareness phase. And then people might move into a consideration phase and then a conversion phase, and then to the fact down in the lowest part of the funnel, um, where they are expressing loyalty. And then finally, they are expressing a advocacy. And I think that the church can, um, follow a similar way. And I think that that TikTok, I think that social media often is a top of the funnel type of thing. I don't know that you are gonna pray with anybody to receive Christ over TikTok. You might, and that'd be an amazing story. But I think in a lot of ways a person is, is hovering around the top of the funnel, gaining an awareness of Jesus, um, and, and maybe even your church, and then moving down that funnel more and more and more until finally I take a step into real live, authentic personal community.

Nick Clason (35:44):
And the church world is very similar. Jesus set up the very same framework, right? Jesus said, um, Hey, explore who I am, where he, where he gives the invitation to Andrew and John, and he says, come and see. And then out of that, he, he allows them to follow him or, or connect with him and with some other disciples. And then he really ch he leans in, he challenges them, goes from following me to, I will make you, I will change you, um, make you into fishes of men. And that's what we see a lot of the growth of them internally. And then finally, the most growth is when he turns and pivots and he says, now it's your job to go and multiply. And that's why we see much joy out of Jesus when the 72 come back, because the 72 is the, the second and third and fourth generation of disciples.

Nick Clason (36:31):
It's not just his disciples, the ones that we know, the ones that are listed, Peter, James, John, Andrew. But it's, it's their disciples, the ones that they've shared the message with. Those 72 go out and they also bear much fruit. That's the framework that Jesus has built up for multiplication. And so, um, we can, as the church, we can lean into that come and see, and that follow me, those entry level places. And in a lot of times those have been set up in physical gatherings in the worship environment. And that is a place where people can come and explore. But I think, um, in today's day and age, they're also doing a lot of that exploration in the palm of their hands, on their phones, on their devices and on their screens. And they're looking at their, at their phones. They're asking questions about, who is this man?

Nick Clason (37:13):
Jesus, what is this you say about faith? And as they're scrolling through TikTok to yes, be entertained and to yes, find another silly video or whatever they're looking for, they might also find something meaningful, something spiritual and something where you can say, Hey, come and see. Hey, listen guys, I hope you found this episode helpful. Uh, it was a deep dive. Um, it was heavy and there was a lot of, uh, scripture and quotes and stuff like that. And so, um, I will post, um, all the links to everything I've done in the show notes. Of course, there's free transcripts and you know what I'll do, I'll include my notes for this, um, in the, the notes as well. So you can get all that over at hybridministry.xyz. Go grab the ebook, go watch the YouTube video and how to post. And um, guys, listen, there is a lost and dying world out there, and that's why this is so important, not for you to get a thousand million hundred views on a TikTok video, but so that people who don't have a relationship with Jesus come to an understanding of a relationship with Jesus.

Nick Clason (38:15):
And maybe just, maybe that's through you giving them an opportunity to explore and open the door. So keep doing what you're doing, blessings on you and your ministry, and we'll talk again.

]]> Episode 026: Have I already Ruined my TikTok Account? A Complete Guide to Posting a TikTok from Start to Finish https://www.hybridministry.xyz/026 c4e31abe-05e6-4cd1-b9df-6c3d2ea51cb1 Thu, 12 Jan 2023 04:00:00 -0600 Nick Clason 026 Have I already Ruined my TikTok Account? A Complete Guide to Posting a TikTok from Start to Finish full Nick Clason In this episode, Nick walks through the step-by-step and page by page menu options for posting a TikTok. Whether you're versed in this or this is your first time opening the app, this guide will take you from start to finish! And Nick shares some tips on what and how to share to other social media platforms 21:29 no SUMMARY In this episode, Nick walks through the step-by-step and page by page menu options for posting a TikTok. Whether you're versed in this or this is your first time opening the app, this guide will take you from start to finish! And Nick shares some tips on what and how to share to other social media platforms. This also comes with a complete digital downloadable guide: https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/ebook Or check out the complete YouTube Video on it: https://youtu.be/oxBn-p9O-eg As always, every episode available with FREE transcripts at: http://www.hybridministry.xyz And hang with Nick on TikTok at: https://www.tiktok.com/@clasonnick FREE Checklist: https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/free-social-media-checklist TIMECODES TIMECODES 00:00-00:53 – Intro 00:53-03:11 - Why TikTok, Reels and Short Form Video? 03:11-03:47- - Logging Into TikTok for the First Time 03:47-05:56 - Video Menu Options 05:56-07:03 - Profile Menu Options 07:03-12:07 - Creating a Video 12:07-17:21 - Editing the Video 17:21-19:34 - Time to Post it! 19:34-20:46 - Make sure you do this ONE THING before posting to other platforms 20:46- - Outro TRANSCRIPT Nick Clason (00:01): So have I already ruined my TikTok account? Here's a guide on how to post TikTok from start to finish. Hey everyone, my name is Nick Clason. I am the host of the Hybrid Ministry podcast, and this is a little special YouTube slash podcast episode I'm excited to bring to you on the framework for posting a TikTok in 2023. Now, there's a lot of things out there about like SEO and keywords and strategies and tips and hacks, and in fact, I actually have a checklist that I have pre created for all social media, just a basic like, uh, have you done this? Have you done that for posting to social media at your church? You can get the description or you can get the link for that in the description, the video down below, uh, or in the show notes, hybrid ministry.xyz. But why TikTok? Like why of all the platforms that we have, why TikTok? Nick Clason (01:01): And here's why. Every platform right now, Facebook, Instagram reels, YouTube shorts, they are all going after this short form video content. It's like lightning in a bottle. It's so easy to go viral. Um, and when I say easy, it's like you post the dumbest thing and it goes viral, but then you spend a lot of time and effort and energy on something that you think is amazing and it gets like 14 views. And so the reality is it's this very finicky, very like, hard to like land what is going to go viral, but when you see other social medias copying another social platform's kind of bread and butter, it's worth noting and it's worth, uh, going all in on. And so when every single major social platform is copying TikTok in their, uh, their, their for you sort of algorithm, you need to make that a priority. Nick Clason (02:00): It's, I would liken it to win Instagram stole stories from Snapchat, and now TikTok is actually stealing B reels, uh, post, now they call it the now feature in TikTok. So, uh, if you've never logged into TikTok, uh, or you have, and you know, you should, you've heard me talk about the importance of short form video, but you, you open it and it's overwhelming. You don't know what to do or you think you know what to do, but then you get kind of turned around editing videos or whatever and whatnot. This is meant to be a, uh, a thorough guide to every feature available in TikTok. Now, some caveats, I've really only been using TikTok for about three to six months now. Um, I too is just as much of a novice when I opened it. They're constantly evolving and changing, and I'm not even a hundred percent sure if I know all the features. I tried to comb through each and every feature as I was in preparation for this video, but there are several I haven't even used. And so Nick Clason (02:59): I just wanna be clear with that. Like, uh, I'm still at a very basic level, and so if, if I can do it, what we're doing in our church, you too can, can get up some very basic sort of content. So when you log into TikTok for the very first time, a video is probably going to start blaring at you at full volume. Okay? That can be a little bit disconcerting and throw you off. You're a rocker because most other platforms keep videos muted. TikTok for whatever reason is the opposite, so turn your volume all the way down, or if you just tap the screen, the video, whatever video they play, um, it'll pause it. Now, uh, if you're getting on TikTok for the first time and they're feeding you things that you don't wanna see, they're not, you're not interested in, hold that video down and just click, not interested. Nick Clason (03:43): Do that a few times and you're gonna teach the algorithm what you want to see. So when you, uh, are sitting there looking at a video, video that TikTok fed to you, you have, uh, several different video menu options. And so I want to, uh, run through what those are. The first one is you can, on the right hand side of your screen, you can follow the creator. Uh, that little plus sign right there will give you a, uh, follow, um, or not follow kind of option. Now, if you look at the very, very top of your screen, you're going to be looking at either following or for you, you're either in your following algorithm, all the people that you're following, or you're in your for U algorithm. TikTok will almost naturally bring you to the for U algorithm. So just be aware of that. Nick Clason (04:34): Even when you click follow the people, the videos that you're seeing may not be coming from followers. That's, again, that's one of the things that makes this algorithm unique. Um, you can, like the video, that's the heart. You can comment on it, you can save it. That's a little save, uh, little bookmark looking icon there. You can share it. That's the arrow out. You can send it to people within the TikTok app. You can, you can download the video and save it, or you can copy a link and send it. Uh, and then the bottom, uh, icon there, a little round one kinda looks like a, a record turning. That's the sound, that's the audio that is being used. Could be like an original audio from the creator, or it could be like a sound or a trend or something like that. All of that is to you. Nick Clason (05:15): On the right hand side of the screen at the bottom, you have five menu options. You have your home button and the subcategories for that, like I said, up at the top of the following. And the four you, then you have the, now that's TikTok, s b real copycat. It's almost identical to what Be Real is doing. Uh, you got the plus button there, then very dead center, that's your create button, okay? Then next you have your little envelope, that's your inbox. And for there you get your notifications, dms, likes, follows, et cetera. That's all the things that you, uh, when people interact with your content or your videos. And then finally, the last thing on the very right hand bottom corner, uh, is your profile. That's where you have your videos. Um, once you click on that, you'll see, uh, another kind of menu across the top. Nick Clason (06:02): Uh, the left most option is your videos, everything that you've posted kind of on your grid. The next one are your private videos. The next one are your saved videos. Remember that bookmark icon. And personally, I like to use that as a way to save ideas. So if I'm going through TikTok and there's a sound or an idea that I think is fun or interesting that I can use later, I'll save it. That's then where I'll find it. And what I'll personally do is I'll save that on my personal account, and then I will share that video to my ministry account. Then I will switch accounts, log over into my ministry account, go into my dms, and get that video from myself, and then I'll use that, um, either that sound or that idea or that trend or whatever I need from that video, maybe a filter, whatever that I'll use to them post. Nick Clason (06:46): Um, moving on on that menu, you got your liked videos. And then finally, um, there at the top, you can edit your profile, your link, all the other necessary and pertinent information there. Okay. Now, how do you, that's just simply viewing a video and kind of navigating through your basic menu items. So how do you then create a video? So the way to create a video is on your home screen. You can tap that plus button, all right? And once you tap that plus button, you're given several options. All right? At the very, very top center, uh, there's the option to add sound. You can add a sound that way by clicking it and searching for a sound. Or like I said, when you see that record player on a video, you can click on that. Um, and once you're, once you click on that, there will be a, it'll pull up all the videos, uh, that have used that sound. Nick Clason (07:37): You can click use this sound option. That is personally, I think the easiest way to do that. That's why I like to save those videos and then share them so I don't have to go and try and find those sounds. Again, that's my way of kind of archiving and remembering where those sounds are. Now one thing worth noting, if you're on a personal account, you can use any sound you want. If you are a business account, those are much more limiting. There are ways around it, um, like recording the video and then in post-production in like Adobe Premier Pro or something like that, dubbing that sound over. Then when you post it, it's gonna be technically an original sound. It's not gonna come from the trend sound. Uh, there are pros and cons. Uh, I've talked about this in past podcast episodes. There are pros and cons to, um, personal and business accounts. Nick Clason (08:23): Uh, you just gotta choose what matters most to you. I think probably the biggest downside of not doing a business account is your link and bio isn't really a link. It's just typed out and people have to like, then go type it into a browser so they can't click and go to your stuff. That's a pretty big downside, and you don't get as many analytics. Um, you still can see views and likes and those types of things by going to each individual video, but you're not able to see trends. And so once things start getting going for you, you probably do wanna swap over to a business account. Just know that it's gonna limit the sounds that you are able to use as a business account on your TikTok platform. All right, so you've clicked to create video. At the bottom of your screen, you're gonna have this big red record button that is gonna probably feel very familiar to you. Nick Clason (09:09): It's gonna look like a camera phone or something like that. Right above that, that red button you have the, you have a thing that says 15 s. That's for 15 seconds to the left of that. If you slide 30, uh, or 60 s I'm sorry, and then slide again, you have three m three minutes, okay? Uh, you can shave the time down after you record. So if you don't know how long it's gonna be and you just want to go the three minutes, then if you don't take that full time, it's not gonna post the full three minutes like black at the end of your video, right? So, uh, just know that going into it, if you're using a sound, like if a sound, you click use sound and it's already loaded at the top of your video there. When you click 15 s or 60 s, um, you switch to that often right below it, it'll say, this sound will only allow you to record for a maximum of seven seconds or something like that. Nick Clason (09:59): All right? And so then, you know, oh, I can just stick with the 15 seconds and I don't need all the other stuff. Right? Okay. So, um, to the left of the record button are, is your effects menu. So there, that's where you're gonna get like your green screen, or right now there's a delay mirror effect that's kind of trending on TikTok that's there. Um, things that like rotate through on your head that my TikTok account personally, like I do this thing for football and all the NFL teams rotate through. I have so many views on those, it's ridiculous, but that's what's helping kind of grow my audience. Um, that's where you're gonna get those types of effects. To the right of that is your upload button, okay? That's where you would upload a previously recorded video or photo from your phone, from your camera roll that you already shot outside of the TikTok app, for example. Nick Clason (10:46): Um, and so then at the top right you have, uh, the flip button that's just simply to flip your camera forward facing, rear facing beneath that you have, uh, your speed. So you have different speeds, 0.3 x 0.5 x one x, two x, and three x, uh, for recording speeds. Uh, below that you have the retouch option, full disclosure, and never used that thing. It's kinda like a filter thing. Beneath it, you have another filter option. This one I think is more about image, less about the specifics of like a retouch sort of thing. Beneath that, you have your timer. That's where you can like set your phone down and give it like a three second head start, so you can walk away from it and do a dance or whatever the case might be. Um, you have a three second, ten second option. When you do that. Nick Clason (11:29): Beneath that you have your q and a option. That's where sometimes you'll see a person's comment on the screen and you can reply with video to the comment. All right? So once you're ready to record, those are all your menu options. Now that we're ready to record, tap that record button. When you wanna start, and when you wanna stop immediately to the right of the button, you have two menu options that are now available. After recording, you have delete, it looks like, kind of like a backspace button. If you want to delete what you recorded, start over, try again. You can do that. There. You also have a red check mark. Um, and that's where you then accept the video. And now you move on into the next sort of editing phase of the, the video. Now, your new menu, once you're into the editing phase, in the top middle of the section, you have your sound. Nick Clason (12:15): If you haven't added a sound yet, that's where you can add a sound. Um, if you've already recorded a sound, a video with the sound, that's where you could delete that sound if you no longer want that sound mm-hmm. on the right hand side of the screen, um, you have, you are at the very top. You have your text on screen option, that's where you click that and you can type that out, um, on your left. Then you now have three different menu options, um, from your, from your text editor, right? You have the square with the A around it. If you, if you select that, that will add a border to the text on the screen. So it might be easier to read if you select it. Again, that will put a full background on that. And if you select it, again, it'll add a background, but now it's transparent and if you select it again, it'll go back to your original without any of those effects on it. Nick Clason (13:04): Then to the right of that, you have your paragraph alignment, you have center, then left alignment, then right alignment. And then to the right of that, you have your person with a speech. That's where you often get that voiceover effect. That says, um, that, that's used as a hook. A lot of times on videos, uh, if you choose that, it will make that, um, text on screen. It will turn it into, uh, a voiceover. And there, once you select that, you'll be given, uh, different options, different types of sounds to play around with. Um, once you select that, the menus you have are recommended motion creative vocals. Those are categories for the types of sounds, and then sub options within those. Okay? To determine what your text, uh, looks like, um, you have the classic option. You have the typewriter option, the handwriting option, neon option, and the CIF option. Nick Clason (13:57): And those. So you got your, your a, your paragraph, your speech, and then to the right of that, that's where you get your text, um, looking options. Okay? And then from there you can select colors and they do swipe from right to left so that you can pick which color you want on, on, on screen there. All right. So when you're done, select, done, pretty self-explanatory. The last thing that you can do then is once that, uh, text is now on the screen, if you select it, it'll pop up three menu options. All right? So you can, uh, text to speech, you can add that feature, or if you already did it, that's where you can change, uh, the voice or whatever the case may be. You can set the duration. How long does that text remain on screen? That's where like if, uh, at a certain sound effect or element or whatever, something pops up, uh, you would drag, you would drag the text to start there or to stop there. Nick Clason (14:49): Okay? And then the last thing thing is to edit, to actually like rewrite or, you know, you had a typo to go in there and change that. All right, moving on down beyond the text, you have your sticker options. That's things like your mentions, hashtags, you can add polls, support nonprofit, add a location, ask a question, reply the date, the time, all kinds of things. If you're familiar with Instagram Stories editor, it's very similar to the sticker options that you see on Instagram Stories. I've actually never even seen that menu option until I went to prepare for this video and I was like, oh, I didn't know all this stuff was on here. Um, beneath that, you have effects, okay? And so across the top, once you click effects, you have your trending effects, then you got visual motion effects, transitions, and, uh, split options. Nick Clason (15:31): So you can kind of explore different effects, things to add to your video and what, whatever, and whatnot. Right there, beneath that, you have your filters. It's just gonna change the look, feel your video. Beneath that, you have studio, that's where you're actually editing, cutting your video, okay? So if you wanna do something to edit the video, click on the video. It's gonna give you a video bar and a sound bar. If, if you have, uh, like just the, the audio from the video that you recorded, they'll be together. If you have a audio, like a song, those are gonna be two kind of separate things, okay? So if you click on your, your top option, your video option, once you do that, a little menu option down beneath will, will pop up. So you have split, you can change the speed, you can adjust the volume, you can rotate it, and ultimately you can delete it. Nick Clason (16:20): Uh, split is a great way. If you have like one big, long thing, um, and you're trying to do a little cuts, you drag to the spot, you split it, and then you delete the rest of the video, then you may add in another video that, that same video, probably do another cut, split delete on the front, delete it on the backside. I hope that makes sense. Um, so then to the right of your video bar option, right? You can click full screen and then there's a plus button, and that's where you can then add that video. Like I was just talking about. If you select the audio, you got your video bar, your, your audio bar, if you select audio, you can add your audio option. Once it's added, you can either replace the sound, adjust the volume, or choose to delete it. You save at the top right and you cancel at the top left. Nick Clason (17:05): Moving back out to our editor, um, beneath that you have your captions option A recommend a caption for almost any talking head video on TikTok. That's how, uh, SEO and search is gonna find certain topics. Beneath that, you have your Noise reducer, then your audio effects, and then finally your privacy settings. So once you're done there at the bottom, you then have two options. Bottom of your, your screen on the left, you have the stories option. And then to the right of that, you'll have your next option. Next is where you go to kind of tap to get to your final step before you actually post it. Okay? And so, um, there is where you would type in your caption, different from your captions on screen, right? But your caption of your actual video, the one that kind of like floats up, and then the likes and stuff stuff, follow it. Nick Clason (17:50): Um, you would also include your hashtags there. And then to the right of your, uh, caption box is where you would select your cover. If you click on that, you can drag your finger to a certain part of the video. You can also add title and text on top of it. Um, the, the title and text, it should be noted that those don't show up when someone's swiping through and just finding your video, those are mostly seen when someone lands on your profile and you want them to know what the video is. Okay? So those, those could be helpful. Also, if you do have onscreen things different from your, your text option, your title, text options there, like I showed you, um, those will also show, um, if someone land on your profile, they'll just be in a different type of format than, than TikTok has to offer. Nick Clason (18:36): Um, if they're, uh, like I said, if they're scrolling past, so they won't display on that screen. Also, there you can tag people, you can add a location, you can add links, and here's what it's available on the links. You have books, minigame Alpha by Titan Breathwork, Buzzfeed Quizzes, Contra Profile, disco Loco, 3d, I R L List with Two Eyes, Quizlet, rotten Tomatoes, stat Muse, and Whisk. Um, never use any of those. So you can check those out. You can then choose, um, who can watch the video, allow comments, allow to, uh, allow, allow Stitch, allow high quality, upload more options, save to device. If you click on the more options, save to device, which I just finally turned off by the way, I couldn't figure out where to get that. That's where you get that. You can select your caption language, um, branded content and ads, and then there's an automatically shared to IG or text ig, ig stories, Snapchat. Nick Clason (19:30): And then the last thing is, um, you can either put it in drafts or you can post it. Last thing I'd recommend, if you are uploading this to other places, um, once you upload it, click uh, go back into your profile, click on the three ellipses option, um, click copy link, and then go to your browser on your phone or on your computer, and type in to Google save TikTok without video watermark or save TikTok video without watermark. If you copy and paste that link into there, it will then download you an option from TikTok without the TikTok watermark all over it. Then you can take that same video and you can post it to Instagram, Facebook, YouTube shorts. Um, one thing I've noticed personally, just very anecdotally, is that every time I would post a TikTok, um, and then Instagram with the watermark, Instagram would give me almost no views once I started removing that. Um, we, we've had videos go, you know, 20,000, 30,000, 40,000 views because we removed the watermark. Um, I think that the two are kind of competing against each other. Instagram wants to use them, TikTok wants you to use them, so just confuse them and think that they're both being used even though you, you are using both of them. And, uh, they, they just aren't seeing that. Um, and that's just algorithm and kind of AI Nick Clason (20:46): Stuff. All right, so, hey, thank you so much for hanging out and getting that guide if, uh, or getting this guide on how to, how to post TikTok, um, on your account. Listen, if you found this helpful, like subscribe, share, rate, review, all the things, check us out, hybridministry.xyz and check out the description for, um, not only the, the social media checklist, but also the checklist on this, um, the written form of this video on how to post a TikTok, download that, put it on your desk, put it above your, your computer so that when you're posting, you have it as a reference. And until next time, we'll talk to you later. Digital Ministry, Digital Discipleship, Hybrid Ministry, TikTok, Reels, Shorts, YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, Church Marketing, Church, Ministry, Pastor, Posting to TikTok SUMMARY
In this episode, Nick walks through the step-by-step and page by page menu options for posting a TikTok. Whether you're versed in this or this is your first time opening the app, this guide will take you from start to finish! And Nick shares some tips on what and how to share to other social media platforms.

This also comes with a complete digital downloadable guide: https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/ebook
Or check out the complete YouTube Video on it: https://youtu.be/oxBn-p9O-eg
As always, every episode available with FREE transcripts at: http://www.hybridministry.xyz
And hang with Nick on TikTok at: https://www.tiktok.com/@clasonnick
FREE Checklist: https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/free-social-media-checklist

TIMECODES
TIMECODES
00:00-00:53 – Intro
00:53-03:11 - Why TikTok, Reels and Short Form Video?
03:11-03:47- - Logging Into TikTok for the First Time
03:47-05:56 - Video Menu Options
05:56-07:03 - Profile Menu Options
07:03-12:07 - Creating a Video
12:07-17:21 - Editing the Video
17:21-19:34 - Time to Post it!
19:34-20:46 - Make sure you do this ONE THING before posting to other platforms
20:46- - Outro

TRANSCRIPT
Nick Clason (00:01):
So have I already ruined my TikTok account? Here's a guide on how to post TikTok from start to finish. Hey everyone, my name is Nick Clason. I am the host of the Hybrid Ministry podcast, and this is a little special YouTube slash podcast episode I'm excited to bring to you on the framework for posting a TikTok in 2023. Now, there's a lot of things out there about like SEO and keywords and strategies and tips and hacks, and in fact, I actually have a checklist that I have pre created for all social media, just a basic like, uh, have you done this? Have you done that for posting to social media at your church? You can get the description or you can get the link for that in the description, the video down below, uh, or in the show notes, hybrid ministry.xyz. But why TikTok? Like why of all the platforms that we have, why TikTok?

Nick Clason (01:01):
And here's why. Every platform right now, Facebook, Instagram reels, YouTube shorts, they are all going after this short form video content. It's like lightning in a bottle. It's so easy to go viral. Um, and when I say easy, it's like you post the dumbest thing and it goes viral, but then you spend a lot of time and effort and energy on something that you think is amazing and it gets like 14 views. And so the reality is it's this very finicky, very like, hard to like land what is going to go viral, but when you see other social medias copying another social platform's kind of bread and butter, it's worth noting and it's worth, uh, going all in on. And so when every single major social platform is copying TikTok in their, uh, their, their for you sort of algorithm, you need to make that a priority.

Nick Clason (02:00):
It's, I would liken it to win Instagram stole stories from Snapchat, and now TikTok is actually stealing B reels, uh, post, now they call it the now feature in TikTok. So, uh, if you've never logged into TikTok, uh, or you have, and you know, you should, you've heard me talk about the importance of short form video, but you, you open it and it's overwhelming. You don't know what to do or you think you know what to do, but then you get kind of turned around editing videos or whatever and whatnot. This is meant to be a, uh, a thorough guide to every feature available in TikTok. Now, some caveats, I've really only been using TikTok for about three to six months now. Um, I too is just as much of a novice when I opened it. They're constantly evolving and changing, and I'm not even a hundred percent sure if I know all the features. I tried to comb through each and every feature as I was in preparation for this video, but there are several I haven't even used. And so

Nick Clason (02:59):
I just wanna be clear with that. Like, uh, I'm still at a very basic level, and so if, if I can do it, what we're doing in our church, you too can, can get up some very basic sort of content. So when you log into TikTok for the very first time, a video is probably going to start blaring at you at full volume. Okay? That can be a little bit disconcerting and throw you off. You're a rocker because most other platforms keep videos muted. TikTok for whatever reason is the opposite, so turn your volume all the way down, or if you just tap the screen, the video, whatever video they play, um, it'll pause it. Now, uh, if you're getting on TikTok for the first time and they're feeding you things that you don't wanna see, they're not, you're not interested in, hold that video down and just click, not interested.

Nick Clason (03:43):
Do that a few times and you're gonna teach the algorithm what you want to see. So when you, uh, are sitting there looking at a video, video that TikTok fed to you, you have, uh, several different video menu options. And so I want to, uh, run through what those are. The first one is you can, on the right hand side of your screen, you can follow the creator. Uh, that little plus sign right there will give you a, uh, follow, um, or not follow kind of option. Now, if you look at the very, very top of your screen, you're going to be looking at either following or for you, you're either in your following algorithm, all the people that you're following, or you're in your for U algorithm. TikTok will almost naturally bring you to the for U algorithm. So just be aware of that.

Nick Clason (04:34):
Even when you click follow the people, the videos that you're seeing may not be coming from followers. That's, again, that's one of the things that makes this algorithm unique. Um, you can, like the video, that's the heart. You can comment on it, you can save it. That's a little save, uh, little bookmark looking icon there. You can share it. That's the arrow out. You can send it to people within the TikTok app. You can, you can download the video and save it, or you can copy a link and send it. Uh, and then the bottom, uh, icon there, a little round one kinda looks like a, a record turning. That's the sound, that's the audio that is being used. Could be like an original audio from the creator, or it could be like a sound or a trend or something like that. All of that is to you.

Nick Clason (05:15):
On the right hand side of the screen at the bottom, you have five menu options. You have your home button and the subcategories for that, like I said, up at the top of the following. And the four you, then you have the, now that's TikTok, s b real copycat. It's almost identical to what Be Real is doing. Uh, you got the plus button there, then very dead center, that's your create button, okay? Then next you have your little envelope, that's your inbox. And for there you get your notifications, dms, likes, follows, et cetera. That's all the things that you, uh, when people interact with your content or your videos. And then finally, the last thing on the very right hand bottom corner, uh, is your profile. That's where you have your videos. Um, once you click on that, you'll see, uh, another kind of menu across the top.

Nick Clason (06:02):
Uh, the left most option is your videos, everything that you've posted kind of on your grid. The next one are your private videos. The next one are your saved videos. Remember that bookmark icon. And personally, I like to use that as a way to save ideas. So if I'm going through TikTok and there's a sound or an idea that I think is fun or interesting that I can use later, I'll save it. That's then where I'll find it. And what I'll personally do is I'll save that on my personal account, and then I will share that video to my ministry account. Then I will switch accounts, log over into my ministry account, go into my dms, and get that video from myself, and then I'll use that, um, either that sound or that idea or that trend or whatever I need from that video, maybe a filter, whatever that I'll use to them post.

Nick Clason (06:46):
Um, moving on on that menu, you got your liked videos. And then finally, um, there at the top, you can edit your profile, your link, all the other necessary and pertinent information there. Okay. Now, how do you, that's just simply viewing a video and kind of navigating through your basic menu items. So how do you then create a video? So the way to create a video is on your home screen. You can tap that plus button, all right? And once you tap that plus button, you're given several options. All right? At the very, very top center, uh, there's the option to add sound. You can add a sound that way by clicking it and searching for a sound. Or like I said, when you see that record player on a video, you can click on that. Um, and once you're, once you click on that, there will be a, it'll pull up all the videos, uh, that have used that sound.

Nick Clason (07:37):
You can click use this sound option. That is personally, I think the easiest way to do that. That's why I like to save those videos and then share them so I don't have to go and try and find those sounds. Again, that's my way of kind of archiving and remembering where those sounds are. Now one thing worth noting, if you're on a personal account, you can use any sound you want. If you are a business account, those are much more limiting. There are ways around it, um, like recording the video and then in post-production in like Adobe Premier Pro or something like that, dubbing that sound over. Then when you post it, it's gonna be technically an original sound. It's not gonna come from the trend sound. Uh, there are pros and cons. Uh, I've talked about this in past podcast episodes. There are pros and cons to, um, personal and business accounts.

Nick Clason (08:23):
Uh, you just gotta choose what matters most to you. I think probably the biggest downside of not doing a business account is your link and bio isn't really a link. It's just typed out and people have to like, then go type it into a browser so they can't click and go to your stuff. That's a pretty big downside, and you don't get as many analytics. Um, you still can see views and likes and those types of things by going to each individual video, but you're not able to see trends. And so once things start getting going for you, you probably do wanna swap over to a business account. Just know that it's gonna limit the sounds that you are able to use as a business account on your TikTok platform. All right, so you've clicked to create video. At the bottom of your screen, you're gonna have this big red record button that is gonna probably feel very familiar to you.

Nick Clason (09:09):
It's gonna look like a camera phone or something like that. Right above that, that red button you have the, you have a thing that says 15 s. That's for 15 seconds to the left of that. If you slide 30, uh, or 60 s I'm sorry, and then slide again, you have three m three minutes, okay? Uh, you can shave the time down after you record. So if you don't know how long it's gonna be and you just want to go the three minutes, then if you don't take that full time, it's not gonna post the full three minutes like black at the end of your video, right? So, uh, just know that going into it, if you're using a sound, like if a sound, you click use sound and it's already loaded at the top of your video there. When you click 15 s or 60 s, um, you switch to that often right below it, it'll say, this sound will only allow you to record for a maximum of seven seconds or something like that.

Nick Clason (09:59):
All right? And so then, you know, oh, I can just stick with the 15 seconds and I don't need all the other stuff. Right? Okay. So, um, to the left of the record button are, is your effects menu. So there, that's where you're gonna get like your green screen, or right now there's a delay mirror effect that's kind of trending on TikTok that's there. Um, things that like rotate through on your head that my TikTok account personally, like I do this thing for football and all the NFL teams rotate through. I have so many views on those, it's ridiculous, but that's what's helping kind of grow my audience. Um, that's where you're gonna get those types of effects. To the right of that is your upload button, okay? That's where you would upload a previously recorded video or photo from your phone, from your camera roll that you already shot outside of the TikTok app, for example.

Nick Clason (10:46):
Um, and so then at the top right you have, uh, the flip button that's just simply to flip your camera forward facing, rear facing beneath that you have, uh, your speed. So you have different speeds, 0.3 x 0.5 x one x, two x, and three x, uh, for recording speeds. Uh, below that you have the retouch option, full disclosure, and never used that thing. It's kinda like a filter thing. Beneath it, you have another filter option. This one I think is more about image, less about the specifics of like a retouch sort of thing. Beneath that, you have your timer. That's where you can like set your phone down and give it like a three second head start, so you can walk away from it and do a dance or whatever the case might be. Um, you have a three second, ten second option. When you do that.

Nick Clason (11:29):
Beneath that you have your q and a option. That's where sometimes you'll see a person's comment on the screen and you can reply with video to the comment. All right? So once you're ready to record, those are all your menu options. Now that we're ready to record, tap that record button. When you wanna start, and when you wanna stop immediately to the right of the button, you have two menu options that are now available. After recording, you have delete, it looks like, kind of like a backspace button. If you want to delete what you recorded, start over, try again. You can do that. There. You also have a red check mark. Um, and that's where you then accept the video. And now you move on into the next sort of editing phase of the, the video. Now, your new menu, once you're into the editing phase, in the top middle of the section, you have your sound.

Nick Clason (12:15):
If you haven't added a sound yet, that's where you can add a sound. Um, if you've already recorded a sound, a video with the sound, that's where you could delete that sound if you no longer want that sound mm-hmm. on the right hand side of the screen, um, you have, you are at the very top. You have your text on screen option, that's where you click that and you can type that out, um, on your left. Then you now have three different menu options, um, from your, from your text editor, right? You have the square with the A around it. If you, if you select that, that will add a border to the text on the screen. So it might be easier to read if you select it. Again, that will put a full background on that. And if you select it, again, it'll add a background, but now it's transparent and if you select it again, it'll go back to your original without any of those effects on it.

Nick Clason (13:04):
Then to the right of that, you have your paragraph alignment, you have center, then left alignment, then right alignment. And then to the right of that, you have your person with a speech. That's where you often get that voiceover effect. That says, um, that, that's used as a hook. A lot of times on videos, uh, if you choose that, it will make that, um, text on screen. It will turn it into, uh, a voiceover. And there, once you select that, you'll be given, uh, different options, different types of sounds to play around with. Um, once you select that, the menus you have are recommended motion creative vocals. Those are categories for the types of sounds, and then sub options within those. Okay? To determine what your text, uh, looks like, um, you have the classic option. You have the typewriter option, the handwriting option, neon option, and the CIF option.

Nick Clason (13:57):
And those. So you got your, your a, your paragraph, your speech, and then to the right of that, that's where you get your text, um, looking options. Okay? And then from there you can select colors and they do swipe from right to left so that you can pick which color you want on, on, on screen there. All right. So when you're done, select, done, pretty self-explanatory. The last thing that you can do then is once that, uh, text is now on the screen, if you select it, it'll pop up three menu options. All right? So you can, uh, text to speech, you can add that feature, or if you already did it, that's where you can change, uh, the voice or whatever the case may be. You can set the duration. How long does that text remain on screen? That's where like if, uh, at a certain sound effect or element or whatever, something pops up, uh, you would drag, you would drag the text to start there or to stop there.

Nick Clason (14:49):
Okay? And then the last thing thing is to edit, to actually like rewrite or, you know, you had a typo to go in there and change that. All right, moving on down beyond the text, you have your sticker options. That's things like your mentions, hashtags, you can add polls, support nonprofit, add a location, ask a question, reply the date, the time, all kinds of things. If you're familiar with Instagram Stories editor, it's very similar to the sticker options that you see on Instagram Stories. I've actually never even seen that menu option until I went to prepare for this video and I was like, oh, I didn't know all this stuff was on here. Um, beneath that, you have effects, okay? And so across the top, once you click effects, you have your trending effects, then you got visual motion effects, transitions, and, uh, split options.

Nick Clason (15:31):
So you can kind of explore different effects, things to add to your video and what, whatever, and whatnot. Right there, beneath that, you have your filters. It's just gonna change the look, feel your video. Beneath that, you have studio, that's where you're actually editing, cutting your video, okay? So if you wanna do something to edit the video, click on the video. It's gonna give you a video bar and a sound bar. If, if you have, uh, like just the, the audio from the video that you recorded, they'll be together. If you have a audio, like a song, those are gonna be two kind of separate things, okay? So if you click on your, your top option, your video option, once you do that, a little menu option down beneath will, will pop up. So you have split, you can change the speed, you can adjust the volume, you can rotate it, and ultimately you can delete it.

Nick Clason (16:20):
Uh, split is a great way. If you have like one big, long thing, um, and you're trying to do a little cuts, you drag to the spot, you split it, and then you delete the rest of the video, then you may add in another video that, that same video, probably do another cut, split delete on the front, delete it on the backside. I hope that makes sense. Um, so then to the right of your video bar option, right? You can click full screen and then there's a plus button, and that's where you can then add that video. Like I was just talking about. If you select the audio, you got your video bar, your, your audio bar, if you select audio, you can add your audio option. Once it's added, you can either replace the sound, adjust the volume, or choose to delete it. You save at the top right and you cancel at the top left.

Nick Clason (17:05):
Moving back out to our editor, um, beneath that you have your captions option A recommend a caption for almost any talking head video on TikTok. That's how, uh, SEO and search is gonna find certain topics. Beneath that, you have your Noise reducer, then your audio effects, and then finally your privacy settings. So once you're done there at the bottom, you then have two options. Bottom of your, your screen on the left, you have the stories option. And then to the right of that, you'll have your next option. Next is where you go to kind of tap to get to your final step before you actually post it. Okay? And so, um, there is where you would type in your caption, different from your captions on screen, right? But your caption of your actual video, the one that kind of like floats up, and then the likes and stuff stuff, follow it.

Nick Clason (17:50):
Um, you would also include your hashtags there. And then to the right of your, uh, caption box is where you would select your cover. If you click on that, you can drag your finger to a certain part of the video. You can also add title and text on top of it. Um, the, the title and text, it should be noted that those don't show up when someone's swiping through and just finding your video, those are mostly seen when someone lands on your profile and you want them to know what the video is. Okay? So those, those could be helpful. Also, if you do have onscreen things different from your, your text option, your title, text options there, like I showed you, um, those will also show, um, if someone land on your profile, they'll just be in a different type of format than, than TikTok has to offer.

Nick Clason (18:36):
Um, if they're, uh, like I said, if they're scrolling past, so they won't display on that screen. Also, there you can tag people, you can add a location, you can add links, and here's what it's available on the links. You have books, minigame Alpha by Titan Breathwork, Buzzfeed Quizzes, Contra Profile, disco Loco, 3d, I R L List with Two Eyes, Quizlet, rotten Tomatoes, stat Muse, and Whisk. Um, never use any of those. So you can check those out. You can then choose, um, who can watch the video, allow comments, allow to, uh, allow, allow Stitch, allow high quality, upload more options, save to device. If you click on the more options, save to device, which I just finally turned off by the way, I couldn't figure out where to get that. That's where you get that. You can select your caption language, um, branded content and ads, and then there's an automatically shared to IG or text ig, ig stories, Snapchat.

Nick Clason (19:30):
And then the last thing is, um, you can either put it in drafts or you can post it. Last thing I'd recommend, if you are uploading this to other places, um, once you upload it, click uh, go back into your profile, click on the three ellipses option, um, click copy link, and then go to your browser on your phone or on your computer, and type in to Google save TikTok without video watermark or save TikTok video without watermark. If you copy and paste that link into there, it will then download you an option from TikTok without the TikTok watermark all over it. Then you can take that same video and you can post it to Instagram, Facebook, YouTube shorts. Um, one thing I've noticed personally, just very anecdotally, is that every time I would post a TikTok, um, and then Instagram with the watermark, Instagram would give me almost no views once I started removing that. Um, we, we've had videos go, you know, 20,000, 30,000, 40,000 views because we removed the watermark. Um, I think that the two are kind of competing against each other. Instagram wants to use them, TikTok wants you to use them, so just confuse them and think that they're both being used even though you, you are using both of them. And, uh, they, they just aren't seeing that. Um, and that's just algorithm and kind of AI

Nick Clason (20:46):
Stuff. All right, so, hey, thank you so much for hanging out and getting that guide if, uh, or getting this guide on how to, how to post TikTok, um, on your account. Listen, if you found this helpful, like subscribe, share, rate, review, all the things, check us out, hybridministry.xyz and check out the description for, um, not only the, the social media checklist, but also the checklist on this, um, the written form of this video on how to post a TikTok, download that, put it on your desk, put it above your, your computer so that when you're posting, you have it as a reference. And until next time, we'll talk to you later.

]]> SUMMARY
In this episode, Nick walks through the step-by-step and page by page menu options for posting a TikTok. Whether you're versed in this or this is your first time opening the app, this guide will take you from start to finish! And Nick shares some tips on what and how to share to other social media platforms.

This also comes with a complete digital downloadable guide: https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/ebook
Or check out the complete YouTube Video on it: https://youtu.be/oxBn-p9O-eg
As always, every episode available with FREE transcripts at: http://www.hybridministry.xyz
And hang with Nick on TikTok at: https://www.tiktok.com/@clasonnick
FREE Checklist: https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/free-social-media-checklist

TIMECODES
TIMECODES
00:00-00:53 – Intro
00:53-03:11 - Why TikTok, Reels and Short Form Video?
03:11-03:47- - Logging Into TikTok for the First Time
03:47-05:56 - Video Menu Options
05:56-07:03 - Profile Menu Options
07:03-12:07 - Creating a Video
12:07-17:21 - Editing the Video
17:21-19:34 - Time to Post it!
19:34-20:46 - Make sure you do this ONE THING before posting to other platforms
20:46- - Outro

TRANSCRIPT
Nick Clason (00:01):
So have I already ruined my TikTok account? Here's a guide on how to post TikTok from start to finish. Hey everyone, my name is Nick Clason. I am the host of the Hybrid Ministry podcast, and this is a little special YouTube slash podcast episode I'm excited to bring to you on the framework for posting a TikTok in 2023. Now, there's a lot of things out there about like SEO and keywords and strategies and tips and hacks, and in fact, I actually have a checklist that I have pre created for all social media, just a basic like, uh, have you done this? Have you done that for posting to social media at your church? You can get the description or you can get the link for that in the description, the video down below, uh, or in the show notes, hybrid ministry.xyz. But why TikTok? Like why of all the platforms that we have, why TikTok?

Nick Clason (01:01):
And here's why. Every platform right now, Facebook, Instagram reels, YouTube shorts, they are all going after this short form video content. It's like lightning in a bottle. It's so easy to go viral. Um, and when I say easy, it's like you post the dumbest thing and it goes viral, but then you spend a lot of time and effort and energy on something that you think is amazing and it gets like 14 views. And so the reality is it's this very finicky, very like, hard to like land what is going to go viral, but when you see other social medias copying another social platform's kind of bread and butter, it's worth noting and it's worth, uh, going all in on. And so when every single major social platform is copying TikTok in their, uh, their, their for you sort of algorithm, you need to make that a priority.

Nick Clason (02:00):
It's, I would liken it to win Instagram stole stories from Snapchat, and now TikTok is actually stealing B reels, uh, post, now they call it the now feature in TikTok. So, uh, if you've never logged into TikTok, uh, or you have, and you know, you should, you've heard me talk about the importance of short form video, but you, you open it and it's overwhelming. You don't know what to do or you think you know what to do, but then you get kind of turned around editing videos or whatever and whatnot. This is meant to be a, uh, a thorough guide to every feature available in TikTok. Now, some caveats, I've really only been using TikTok for about three to six months now. Um, I too is just as much of a novice when I opened it. They're constantly evolving and changing, and I'm not even a hundred percent sure if I know all the features. I tried to comb through each and every feature as I was in preparation for this video, but there are several I haven't even used. And so

Nick Clason (02:59):
I just wanna be clear with that. Like, uh, I'm still at a very basic level, and so if, if I can do it, what we're doing in our church, you too can, can get up some very basic sort of content. So when you log into TikTok for the very first time, a video is probably going to start blaring at you at full volume. Okay? That can be a little bit disconcerting and throw you off. You're a rocker because most other platforms keep videos muted. TikTok for whatever reason is the opposite, so turn your volume all the way down, or if you just tap the screen, the video, whatever video they play, um, it'll pause it. Now, uh, if you're getting on TikTok for the first time and they're feeding you things that you don't wanna see, they're not, you're not interested in, hold that video down and just click, not interested.

Nick Clason (03:43):
Do that a few times and you're gonna teach the algorithm what you want to see. So when you, uh, are sitting there looking at a video, video that TikTok fed to you, you have, uh, several different video menu options. And so I want to, uh, run through what those are. The first one is you can, on the right hand side of your screen, you can follow the creator. Uh, that little plus sign right there will give you a, uh, follow, um, or not follow kind of option. Now, if you look at the very, very top of your screen, you're going to be looking at either following or for you, you're either in your following algorithm, all the people that you're following, or you're in your for U algorithm. TikTok will almost naturally bring you to the for U algorithm. So just be aware of that.

Nick Clason (04:34):
Even when you click follow the people, the videos that you're seeing may not be coming from followers. That's, again, that's one of the things that makes this algorithm unique. Um, you can, like the video, that's the heart. You can comment on it, you can save it. That's a little save, uh, little bookmark looking icon there. You can share it. That's the arrow out. You can send it to people within the TikTok app. You can, you can download the video and save it, or you can copy a link and send it. Uh, and then the bottom, uh, icon there, a little round one kinda looks like a, a record turning. That's the sound, that's the audio that is being used. Could be like an original audio from the creator, or it could be like a sound or a trend or something like that. All of that is to you.

Nick Clason (05:15):
On the right hand side of the screen at the bottom, you have five menu options. You have your home button and the subcategories for that, like I said, up at the top of the following. And the four you, then you have the, now that's TikTok, s b real copycat. It's almost identical to what Be Real is doing. Uh, you got the plus button there, then very dead center, that's your create button, okay? Then next you have your little envelope, that's your inbox. And for there you get your notifications, dms, likes, follows, et cetera. That's all the things that you, uh, when people interact with your content or your videos. And then finally, the last thing on the very right hand bottom corner, uh, is your profile. That's where you have your videos. Um, once you click on that, you'll see, uh, another kind of menu across the top.

Nick Clason (06:02):
Uh, the left most option is your videos, everything that you've posted kind of on your grid. The next one are your private videos. The next one are your saved videos. Remember that bookmark icon. And personally, I like to use that as a way to save ideas. So if I'm going through TikTok and there's a sound or an idea that I think is fun or interesting that I can use later, I'll save it. That's then where I'll find it. And what I'll personally do is I'll save that on my personal account, and then I will share that video to my ministry account. Then I will switch accounts, log over into my ministry account, go into my dms, and get that video from myself, and then I'll use that, um, either that sound or that idea or that trend or whatever I need from that video, maybe a filter, whatever that I'll use to them post.

Nick Clason (06:46):
Um, moving on on that menu, you got your liked videos. And then finally, um, there at the top, you can edit your profile, your link, all the other necessary and pertinent information there. Okay. Now, how do you, that's just simply viewing a video and kind of navigating through your basic menu items. So how do you then create a video? So the way to create a video is on your home screen. You can tap that plus button, all right? And once you tap that plus button, you're given several options. All right? At the very, very top center, uh, there's the option to add sound. You can add a sound that way by clicking it and searching for a sound. Or like I said, when you see that record player on a video, you can click on that. Um, and once you're, once you click on that, there will be a, it'll pull up all the videos, uh, that have used that sound.

Nick Clason (07:37):
You can click use this sound option. That is personally, I think the easiest way to do that. That's why I like to save those videos and then share them so I don't have to go and try and find those sounds. Again, that's my way of kind of archiving and remembering where those sounds are. Now one thing worth noting, if you're on a personal account, you can use any sound you want. If you are a business account, those are much more limiting. There are ways around it, um, like recording the video and then in post-production in like Adobe Premier Pro or something like that, dubbing that sound over. Then when you post it, it's gonna be technically an original sound. It's not gonna come from the trend sound. Uh, there are pros and cons. Uh, I've talked about this in past podcast episodes. There are pros and cons to, um, personal and business accounts.

Nick Clason (08:23):
Uh, you just gotta choose what matters most to you. I think probably the biggest downside of not doing a business account is your link and bio isn't really a link. It's just typed out and people have to like, then go type it into a browser so they can't click and go to your stuff. That's a pretty big downside, and you don't get as many analytics. Um, you still can see views and likes and those types of things by going to each individual video, but you're not able to see trends. And so once things start getting going for you, you probably do wanna swap over to a business account. Just know that it's gonna limit the sounds that you are able to use as a business account on your TikTok platform. All right, so you've clicked to create video. At the bottom of your screen, you're gonna have this big red record button that is gonna probably feel very familiar to you.

Nick Clason (09:09):
It's gonna look like a camera phone or something like that. Right above that, that red button you have the, you have a thing that says 15 s. That's for 15 seconds to the left of that. If you slide 30, uh, or 60 s I'm sorry, and then slide again, you have three m three minutes, okay? Uh, you can shave the time down after you record. So if you don't know how long it's gonna be and you just want to go the three minutes, then if you don't take that full time, it's not gonna post the full three minutes like black at the end of your video, right? So, uh, just know that going into it, if you're using a sound, like if a sound, you click use sound and it's already loaded at the top of your video there. When you click 15 s or 60 s, um, you switch to that often right below it, it'll say, this sound will only allow you to record for a maximum of seven seconds or something like that.

Nick Clason (09:59):
All right? And so then, you know, oh, I can just stick with the 15 seconds and I don't need all the other stuff. Right? Okay. So, um, to the left of the record button are, is your effects menu. So there, that's where you're gonna get like your green screen, or right now there's a delay mirror effect that's kind of trending on TikTok that's there. Um, things that like rotate through on your head that my TikTok account personally, like I do this thing for football and all the NFL teams rotate through. I have so many views on those, it's ridiculous, but that's what's helping kind of grow my audience. Um, that's where you're gonna get those types of effects. To the right of that is your upload button, okay? That's where you would upload a previously recorded video or photo from your phone, from your camera roll that you already shot outside of the TikTok app, for example.

Nick Clason (10:46):
Um, and so then at the top right you have, uh, the flip button that's just simply to flip your camera forward facing, rear facing beneath that you have, uh, your speed. So you have different speeds, 0.3 x 0.5 x one x, two x, and three x, uh, for recording speeds. Uh, below that you have the retouch option, full disclosure, and never used that thing. It's kinda like a filter thing. Beneath it, you have another filter option. This one I think is more about image, less about the specifics of like a retouch sort of thing. Beneath that, you have your timer. That's where you can like set your phone down and give it like a three second head start, so you can walk away from it and do a dance or whatever the case might be. Um, you have a three second, ten second option. When you do that.

Nick Clason (11:29):
Beneath that you have your q and a option. That's where sometimes you'll see a person's comment on the screen and you can reply with video to the comment. All right? So once you're ready to record, those are all your menu options. Now that we're ready to record, tap that record button. When you wanna start, and when you wanna stop immediately to the right of the button, you have two menu options that are now available. After recording, you have delete, it looks like, kind of like a backspace button. If you want to delete what you recorded, start over, try again. You can do that. There. You also have a red check mark. Um, and that's where you then accept the video. And now you move on into the next sort of editing phase of the, the video. Now, your new menu, once you're into the editing phase, in the top middle of the section, you have your sound.

Nick Clason (12:15):
If you haven't added a sound yet, that's where you can add a sound. Um, if you've already recorded a sound, a video with the sound, that's where you could delete that sound if you no longer want that sound mm-hmm. on the right hand side of the screen, um, you have, you are at the very top. You have your text on screen option, that's where you click that and you can type that out, um, on your left. Then you now have three different menu options, um, from your, from your text editor, right? You have the square with the A around it. If you, if you select that, that will add a border to the text on the screen. So it might be easier to read if you select it. Again, that will put a full background on that. And if you select it, again, it'll add a background, but now it's transparent and if you select it again, it'll go back to your original without any of those effects on it.

Nick Clason (13:04):
Then to the right of that, you have your paragraph alignment, you have center, then left alignment, then right alignment. And then to the right of that, you have your person with a speech. That's where you often get that voiceover effect. That says, um, that, that's used as a hook. A lot of times on videos, uh, if you choose that, it will make that, um, text on screen. It will turn it into, uh, a voiceover. And there, once you select that, you'll be given, uh, different options, different types of sounds to play around with. Um, once you select that, the menus you have are recommended motion creative vocals. Those are categories for the types of sounds, and then sub options within those. Okay? To determine what your text, uh, looks like, um, you have the classic option. You have the typewriter option, the handwriting option, neon option, and the CIF option.

Nick Clason (13:57):
And those. So you got your, your a, your paragraph, your speech, and then to the right of that, that's where you get your text, um, looking options. Okay? And then from there you can select colors and they do swipe from right to left so that you can pick which color you want on, on, on screen there. All right. So when you're done, select, done, pretty self-explanatory. The last thing that you can do then is once that, uh, text is now on the screen, if you select it, it'll pop up three menu options. All right? So you can, uh, text to speech, you can add that feature, or if you already did it, that's where you can change, uh, the voice or whatever the case may be. You can set the duration. How long does that text remain on screen? That's where like if, uh, at a certain sound effect or element or whatever, something pops up, uh, you would drag, you would drag the text to start there or to stop there.

Nick Clason (14:49):
Okay? And then the last thing thing is to edit, to actually like rewrite or, you know, you had a typo to go in there and change that. All right, moving on down beyond the text, you have your sticker options. That's things like your mentions, hashtags, you can add polls, support nonprofit, add a location, ask a question, reply the date, the time, all kinds of things. If you're familiar with Instagram Stories editor, it's very similar to the sticker options that you see on Instagram Stories. I've actually never even seen that menu option until I went to prepare for this video and I was like, oh, I didn't know all this stuff was on here. Um, beneath that, you have effects, okay? And so across the top, once you click effects, you have your trending effects, then you got visual motion effects, transitions, and, uh, split options.

Nick Clason (15:31):
So you can kind of explore different effects, things to add to your video and what, whatever, and whatnot. Right there, beneath that, you have your filters. It's just gonna change the look, feel your video. Beneath that, you have studio, that's where you're actually editing, cutting your video, okay? So if you wanna do something to edit the video, click on the video. It's gonna give you a video bar and a sound bar. If, if you have, uh, like just the, the audio from the video that you recorded, they'll be together. If you have a audio, like a song, those are gonna be two kind of separate things, okay? So if you click on your, your top option, your video option, once you do that, a little menu option down beneath will, will pop up. So you have split, you can change the speed, you can adjust the volume, you can rotate it, and ultimately you can delete it.

Nick Clason (16:20):
Uh, split is a great way. If you have like one big, long thing, um, and you're trying to do a little cuts, you drag to the spot, you split it, and then you delete the rest of the video, then you may add in another video that, that same video, probably do another cut, split delete on the front, delete it on the backside. I hope that makes sense. Um, so then to the right of your video bar option, right? You can click full screen and then there's a plus button, and that's where you can then add that video. Like I was just talking about. If you select the audio, you got your video bar, your, your audio bar, if you select audio, you can add your audio option. Once it's added, you can either replace the sound, adjust the volume, or choose to delete it. You save at the top right and you cancel at the top left.

Nick Clason (17:05):
Moving back out to our editor, um, beneath that you have your captions option A recommend a caption for almost any talking head video on TikTok. That's how, uh, SEO and search is gonna find certain topics. Beneath that, you have your Noise reducer, then your audio effects, and then finally your privacy settings. So once you're done there at the bottom, you then have two options. Bottom of your, your screen on the left, you have the stories option. And then to the right of that, you'll have your next option. Next is where you go to kind of tap to get to your final step before you actually post it. Okay? And so, um, there is where you would type in your caption, different from your captions on screen, right? But your caption of your actual video, the one that kind of like floats up, and then the likes and stuff stuff, follow it.

Nick Clason (17:50):
Um, you would also include your hashtags there. And then to the right of your, uh, caption box is where you would select your cover. If you click on that, you can drag your finger to a certain part of the video. You can also add title and text on top of it. Um, the, the title and text, it should be noted that those don't show up when someone's swiping through and just finding your video, those are mostly seen when someone lands on your profile and you want them to know what the video is. Okay? So those, those could be helpful. Also, if you do have onscreen things different from your, your text option, your title, text options there, like I showed you, um, those will also show, um, if someone land on your profile, they'll just be in a different type of format than, than TikTok has to offer.

Nick Clason (18:36):
Um, if they're, uh, like I said, if they're scrolling past, so they won't display on that screen. Also, there you can tag people, you can add a location, you can add links, and here's what it's available on the links. You have books, minigame Alpha by Titan Breathwork, Buzzfeed Quizzes, Contra Profile, disco Loco, 3d, I R L List with Two Eyes, Quizlet, rotten Tomatoes, stat Muse, and Whisk. Um, never use any of those. So you can check those out. You can then choose, um, who can watch the video, allow comments, allow to, uh, allow, allow Stitch, allow high quality, upload more options, save to device. If you click on the more options, save to device, which I just finally turned off by the way, I couldn't figure out where to get that. That's where you get that. You can select your caption language, um, branded content and ads, and then there's an automatically shared to IG or text ig, ig stories, Snapchat.

Nick Clason (19:30):
And then the last thing is, um, you can either put it in drafts or you can post it. Last thing I'd recommend, if you are uploading this to other places, um, once you upload it, click uh, go back into your profile, click on the three ellipses option, um, click copy link, and then go to your browser on your phone or on your computer, and type in to Google save TikTok without video watermark or save TikTok video without watermark. If you copy and paste that link into there, it will then download you an option from TikTok without the TikTok watermark all over it. Then you can take that same video and you can post it to Instagram, Facebook, YouTube shorts. Um, one thing I've noticed personally, just very anecdotally, is that every time I would post a TikTok, um, and then Instagram with the watermark, Instagram would give me almost no views once I started removing that. Um, we, we've had videos go, you know, 20,000, 30,000, 40,000 views because we removed the watermark. Um, I think that the two are kind of competing against each other. Instagram wants to use them, TikTok wants you to use them, so just confuse them and think that they're both being used even though you, you are using both of them. And, uh, they, they just aren't seeing that. Um, and that's just algorithm and kind of AI

Nick Clason (20:46):
Stuff. All right, so, hey, thank you so much for hanging out and getting that guide if, uh, or getting this guide on how to, how to post TikTok, um, on your account. Listen, if you found this helpful, like subscribe, share, rate, review, all the things, check us out, hybridministry.xyz and check out the description for, um, not only the, the social media checklist, but also the checklist on this, um, the written form of this video on how to post a TikTok, download that, put it on your desk, put it above your, your computer so that when you're posting, you have it as a reference. And until next time, we'll talk to you later.

]]> Episode 018: The Do's, Don'ts and lessons learned from launching a YouTube channel for your church in 2022 https://www.hybridministry.xyz/018 324b1904-0e2a-45fc-92aa-8eccc57a0f93 Thu, 17 Nov 2022 04:00:00 -0600 Nick Clason 018 The Do's, Don'ts and lessons learned from launching a YouTube channel for your church in 2022 full Nick Clason In this Episode Nick explains and explores his experience with YouTube. What he learned from launching a YouTube channel during COVID, and his new recommendation for churches and ministry leaders for delivering useful content online for Gen Z and Gen Alpha and beyond! 22:09 no <p><strong>SUMMARY</strong><br> In this Episode Nick explains and explores his experience with YouTube. What he learned from launching a YouTube channel during COVID, and his new recommendation for churches and ministry leaders for delivering useful content online for Gen Z and Gen Alpha and beyond.</p> <p>Follow us on Twitter <a href="http://www.twitter.com/hybridministry" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">http://www.twitter.com/hybridministry</a><br> Or get FREE transcripts at <a href="http://www.hybridministry.xyz" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">http://www.hybridministry.xyz</a><br> Or find more written content like this from Nick at <a href="http://www.myyouthmin.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">http://www.myyouthmin.com</a></p> <p><strong>TIMECODES</strong><br> 00:00-00:36 - Intro<br> 00:36-07:22 - The lessons I've learned from starting a YouTube channel during COVID<br> 07:22-10:31 - Why start with YouTube?<br> 10:31-13:13 - How to get indexed in searches on YouTube<br> 13:13-16:26 - Ministry Implications<br> 16:26-20:36 - YouTube Best Practices<br> 20:36-22:09 - Outro</p> <p><strong>TRANSCRIPT</strong><br> Nick Clason (00:00):<br> What is up everybody? And welcome to another episode of the Hybrid Ministry podcast. Excited to be with you today. I am Nick Clason, your host, and today I wanted to talk about YouTube, and I actually wanted to talk about why I think it is useful for churches to quit live streaming their sermons. Now, hear me out. Hear me out. Before I dive into all that, let me just get a couple of things off the bat here said. So first and foremost, I wanna talk about YouTube. I don't like to talk about things on this show that I don't have a lot of experience with. And so today is an exception because I have almost zero experience with YouTube. And so for you to understand why and why and the history and everything like that, I just want to give a quick overview. So the church that I most recently served at, not where I am now, but where I most recently before here served at, had a almost 600 YouTube subscriber channel and over 300 or something like that, videos published on it. </p> <p>Nick Clason (01:22):<br> The reason for that being that we started our YouTube channel and our YouTube show, the first day of Covid. And so our YouTube channel and strategy was primarily a digital version of what we would do if we were in the room. So we would think, let's do a game. And in our defense, I think what we did game wise and announcement wise and host wise was a little more YouTube centric than just simply throwing a camera in the back of the room and us pretending there were students there. But instead we were doing it a live stream. So what I mean by that is we built a studio and instead of a game, a screen game or something, we would do a segment. And it was almost like competition or challenge based. So I mean, if you think Mr. Beast or any of those big YouTubers, it was things like that. </p> <p>Nick Clason (02:27):<br> So we were trying to think outside the box and trying to morph and do student ministry in a YouTube sort of way. One of the things that I think shot us in the foot was, first of all, we did it in a pinch. So we did it immediately and we pivoted very fast. And what we did and what we created, I personally was very proud of. But all that being said, once Covid began to run its course and things were over and opening a little bit more, people were looking for an in-person experience. And so what we were producing online was really no longer fulfilling the need that it needed to. So it probably needed an adjustment, and we started to make those adjustments. And what I mean by that is once Covid was over and kids were not stuck in their room, they're probably not that interested in our little segment or our little trivia game that we're playing or whatever on the screen. </p> <p>Nick Clason (03:29):<br> But I do think that we had tons of formidable and useful spiritual content sermons, messages, whatever and whatnot that were totally useful. The problem was we did it in a full, long form show, so to speak. And so just youth group games and announcements and worship and all those things led into the message. And so you didn't get to the message until about 16 minutes on the actual YouTube thing. Typically the shows around 30 minutes or so. And so it was about half stuff and half a message. You get it If you're programming in the room, it's exactly what you would think as far as format wise, okay? And all of that. I was at a multi-site megachurch. All of that was handled by a creative team, a video editor, an audio producer, our tech department handled that, handled, uploading, posting, making it live, all those things. </p> <p>Nick Clason (04:29):<br> And so I helped produce the content. I helped think through some of the philosophy and the strategy of it, but I was not boots on the ground in the weeds, hands on with doing, posting all the YouTube content and growing the channel. And in a lot of ways, the 600 something subs subscribers were a response to what happened during Covid, right? Everyone was subscribing to YouTube channels. Everyone that called our church home, parents, students alike, they subscribing to our channel. All right? So now fast forward to where I am now, and I'm at a little bit smaller church. We got a team of three, but we have around the same student count, or slightly more than the campus that I was at. And so we have a pretty frequent schedule Sunday, Wednesday, Sunday, Wednesday. So every three days, there's something that we need to be thinking for, planning for, and prepping for. </p> <p>Nick Clason (05:26):<br> Not to mention, the entire team of where I'm at is completely brand new. And so we are basically building something from the ground up. There was some stuff in place before and whatever and whatnot. But the reality is we're starting from the ground up. One of the things that we're starting from the ground up, we're continuing on with the Wednesday meeting times, Sunday meeting times, but we're launching and fleshing out a completely digital strategy. And so with all that being said, I wanna just give that caveat to this is my experience with YouTube. I have been very involved in the production of YouTube content. I've learned a lot of things, some dos and don'ts and whatevers and whatnots. But also we are at the church of, we are gonna be changing our name here in January. And so I actually secured the YouTube channel for our future name of our student ministry, which is still a secret to a lot of people. </p> <p>Nick Clason (06:28):<br> So because of that, I have not started posting things to YouTube. What I have started doing is I have started beta testing our YouTube strategy more on a video filming and editing side of things. Is this a sustainable and scalable process that I can continue to implement beyond on a week to week type basis? And so I've been practicing some things, and so I think I feel pretty good about the workflow and rhythm to be able to pull some of these things off. And so I'm excited about launching a YouTube channel and account in January knowing that I'll be able to replicate what I've been doing. So that's sort the background and the history of at least my personal experience with YouTube. So why start with YouTube? Alright, I think YouTube is, is actually a really unique social media platform. It's the only one of its kind in the category of Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, Twitter, YouTube is owned by Google, and it's the only social media platform in that category of those kind of core FI four or five that is owned by Google. </p> <p>Nick Clason (07:52):<br> So you got Google, you got Meta, and then you got TikTok, who's sort of like the third player, the owner there in that, right? You've probably heard this before, but YouTube is actually widely considered by many to be the second largest search engine in the world behind only Google. Some if you get real nitty gritty with it, some actually say it's not the second largest, it's the third largest because Google Images is technically larger. Bottom line, all three, Google search, Google images and YouTube are owned by the same parent company, Google. And regardless of that, right? YouTube is a search engine. And so who among us has not installed a light fixture from the help of a friendly person who posted a YouTube tutorial on YouTube for us to watch and consume and use, Okay? And because it's a search engine, I think it's actually a pretty strategic advantage that can be used by us as pastors and ministry leaders. </p> <p>Nick Clason (08:55):<br> Because if you think about it, when you search for a video, right? Search more how to or think how to fix, how to answer, how to do this, how to navigate this. So, or challenge us to think YouTubers rather than pastors or speakers. And I think that was one of our number one Achilles heels in where I was before. We were thinking YouTubers in a lot of ways, but in our, for example, and I'll get to this in a minute, but in our titling and in our thumbnails, we were treating this as series, the series Jesus series, Part three, March 1st. That's not a compelling, in captivating title for our audience who is with us every week and just wants to get on there and watch something on demand that may be helpful. But to someone who's gonna organically come across our YouTube content, that doesn't explain anything about what's in the video. </p> <p>Nick Clason (09:59):<br> So why is live streaming problematic particularly? And full disclosure, I'm a student pastor. And so if you're watching this in a senior pastor and your church has good cameras, good audio equipment, good lighting to fully embrace a live streaming strategy, then by all means continue to do that. But if you're a youth pastor, I would not necessarily recommend building the gear, the switcher, the infrastructure of live streaming. All right, So let's talk about watch times. Cause this plays into it. According to a backlink.dot com, they surveyed and looked at 1.3 million YouTube videos to try and better understand the YouTube search feature and algorithm. What they determined was that longer videos significantly outperform shorter videos. And the average length of a first page YouTube video that's beneficial and helpful is 14 minutes and 50 seconds. All right? So you need to understand that the way that YouTube indexes and categorizes their videos is a combination of two things. </p> <p>Nick Clason (11:15):<br> Overall, watch time paired with average percentage viewed. And so it turns out that videos in the 14 to 16 minute range actually index really well. In fact, those are the highest ones on search. There are other factors of things that help increase watch times, such as the hook or the intro. All right, So let's just think in the land of sermon delivering a sermon, Okay? I want you to just rank these two scenarios. Scenario number one. Hey everybody, welcome back. Real quick before I dive into tonight's message, I wanna remind you about the Churchwide Bake sales. It's coming up on Sunday, and if you want to earn money toward the mission trip, it is required that you be in attendance. If for some reason you can't make it, just be sure to talk to me afterwards. All right? Now, last week when we were in part three of our series, Jesus, we were reminded that Jesus was bonded together with his disciples because of their love. </p> <p>Nick Clason (12:14):<br> And so tonight, what I wanna focus on in part four is what happens after the death burial and then ultimately resurrection of Jesus, right? That's scenario number one. That's you preaching to your congregation, your students, the people that call your church home. Let's talk about scenario number two. Hey, what if you could win a million dollars? What if I told you that the message of Jesus is actually one that supersedes and rises far above the benefits of winning millions and millions of dollars? Do you see how one at least has the intention of a hook? I don't know if it's good or not, right? That's why I say in fairness, I'm not a YouTube sivan or expert, but I want you, I wanna challenge you to think like a YouTuber. And so where one is taking care of housekeeping in your student ministry, what's going on the bake sale? The second one is actually thinking about YouTube first. It's creating a hook. So what are some implications for ministry? Well, first of all, a 30 to 45 minute sermon where the speaker is presenting primarily to a room full of people versus not really looking or paying attention to the camera. It's just there. Capturing them, doesn't act, Doesn't exactly right. Speak YouTube's preferred language. Think about it, in a live room environment anyway, messages between the length of 10 to 25 minutes seem to have become a pretty optimal length for student ministries who gather in person. </p> <p>Nick Clason (13:51):<br> And I also think that if you take your YouTube or if you take your message content that you're going to already naturally deliver into a room, what I'm gonna actually propose here is that instead of capturing you delivering live to your room, I'm gonna propose that you prefill your content. And what happens is when you prefill your content, number one, you can create and craft a hook that is specific in particular for YouTube. Secondly, you can shave the time down to fit into that 14 to 16 minute window. Even if you go longer in the room, aim for that 14 to 16 minute window. And third, it gives you the opportunity to practice your message before you get up there and deliver it to a live room full of teenagers or parishioners or congregation members. And so that's one of the things that we've been doing. </p> <p>Nick Clason (14:58):<br> We teach live every single Wednesday night, but during that week, after I'm done with my prep, I sit down, I put up a camera and iFilm my message. Then I do a little bit of post production, I add a sound bed behind it. I do some flying in graphics, lower thirds slides, and I put those on the screen as well. And that's gonna be our strategy for YouTube. Why? Number one, it's gonna let us do a YouTube first messaging. We're not gonna bury it behind a bunch of other elements. We're gonna go with the message first. If YouTube is in fact a search engine and kids are out there searching for answers to their faith, then let's give them the answers to their faith. And they might not care about our church announcements. They might not care about the worship, but what they do want is they want answers. </p> <p>Nick Clason (15:45):<br> So answer the question, tell them what you're gonna talk about with the hook right up front at the very beginning of the video. And that for me is one of the hardest shifts, is moving from holding my ace content up my sleeve until the very end, waiting for the message to climax, but instead giving a teaser and a preview at the very beginning of the message. That's a shift. YouTubers do that really well. Pastors build to their ultimate conclusion, and so they try to create this mystery around what's gonna come. But the reality is on YouTube, if you don't hook them right off the bat immediately, then they are gone and on to the next thing. And so think like a YouTuber. Let's talk through some other YouTube best practices. Like I said, make sure your titling is something that a YouTuber would search for as opposed to Jesus Week three, Mark 14, one through 10. </p> <p>Nick Clason (16:39):<br> That's not as captivating a title as Is hell a real place dealing with crippling anxiety or is rest even possible? You see the difference between those two. Think YouTube, think search engine, think click bait, think controversial type titles that help your video perform better because it's a search engine. The meta description or the title, the description of the video, those things all play a huge role in the YouTube ranking. So make sure you spend a little bit of time thinking through and crafting some good compelling descriptions. And then you can also link to things on your church's website or social media, or maybe even some products in the description of your video. Also include tags. YouTube gives you a spot to do that. So include keywords from your videos or tags that relate back to the topic. All three of those factors, title, description, tags, all play a role in the searchability of your YouTube content. </p> <p>Nick Clason (17:33):<br> Also, your thumbnail plays plays a role. Go look at Mr. Beast. He's like number one, YouTuber in the world. Go look at his thumbnails on his YouTube channel and just get some photos with a decent iPhone, maybe a Google Pixel phone to take some halfway decent portrait shots. Throw some catchy text over it using maybe something like PowerPoint Canva, or if you have more skill Photoshop and use different catchy thumbnails to try on your videos. You can also then use a free tool like trends.google.com to look up your searchable words and compare things. AB testing. If you wanted to use the word fear versus the word anxiety, put those into trends.google.com. And you'll notice that anxiety has a higher search level. So use that. </p> <p>Nick Clason (18:25):<br> And then also comments and shares and people embedding your videos are all things that are gonna help index it better in the YouTube algorithm. So ask for things like comments, ask for things like shares, and then on the embedding feature, try to embed your YouTube videos onto your church website onto your, And so then your website is hosting your YouTube video and embedding it already helps index it better. So you already have a platform that people are going to. So use that. That's a feature that's already built in and that can help you get going. All right, what if you're just starting? What starting gear do you need, right? Listen, if you're gonna go budget friendly, get a nice smartphone, right? I just gotta Google Pixel, the latest iPhone have some great things. One of the main things for filming is you need a separate microphone, Okay? </p> <p>Nick Clason (19:24):<br> So you can get, just go on Amazon, do a quick search for a shotgun microphone with your style of phone connection that's needed. You can get something for under a hundred bucks. You can also get a lapel, a wireless lapel lighting. Natural lighting is great. Some ring lights can help. Do the trick. Get a tripod that you can stick your phone on. If you want a more professional rig, then listen. Just go to YouTube, search best YouTube starter set for gear, and you'll find something. I love everything that Brady Sheer from Pro Church Tools has to say just about anything in the church digital space. And in fact, I think the day I'm recording this, he yesterday just trapped a video on his favorite camera gear. So go copy that if you got the budget to do it and make it happen. And then you're just gonna have to do things like edit, and you're gonna figure out you wanna use iMovie, Da Vinci, Resolve Adobe Final Cut Pro. </p> <p>Nick Clason (20:20):<br> Again, budget for some of those are cheaper, like iMovie and Da Vinci Resolve are free. More expensive options are the Adobe Suite or Final Cut Pro. You're just gonna have to see what you have and what's available out there. But listen, my recommendation, again, like I said, get on YouTube. Treat it like a search engine. Get out there. Put your message, the message of hope that you have about Jesus. Create a YouTube channel. Prefill your content or film it after you deliver it. If you want it to be a little bit more polished and you've a little bit more familiar with it, and just start posting some stuff out there, right? Try some things. Follow some of these best practices. You may not go viral overnight. I can't promise that, but these are some of the best practices out there on YouTube. And so simply following them is just gonna give you the best chance to be discovered. </p> <p>Nick Clason (21:12):<br> And that's the goal. We want students, teenagers, or people wrestling with faith to come across the content that we have to offer, and hopefully give them something that's helpful. And this is just a way to expand your impact and your reach as a youth pastor, as a regular pastor in 2022 and beyond. Hey, I hope you guys found this episode helpful. If you did get, Man, leave us a rating or a review. We are on iTunes, Spotify, all the major podcast platforms, hybrid ministry. We're also on Twitter at hybrid ministry. We have full transcripts of everything. We provide this to y'all at hybridministry.xyz Come check us out there and we will talk to you guys. </p> YouTube, Sermons, Live Stream, Ministry, Youth Ministry, Student Ministry, Church, Preaching, Pastors, Meta Church, Church Service, Worship, Discipleship, Outreach, Evangelism SUMMARY
In this Episode Nick explains and explores his experience with YouTube. What he learned from launching a YouTube channel during COVID, and his new recommendation for churches and ministry leaders for delivering useful content online for Gen Z and Gen Alpha and beyond.

Follow us on Twitter http://www.twitter.com/hybridministry
Or get FREE transcripts at http://www.hybridministry.xyz
Or find more written content like this from Nick at http://www.myyouthmin.com

TIMECODES
00:00-00:36 - Intro
00:36-07:22 - The lessons I've learned from starting a YouTube channel during COVID
07:22-10:31 - Why start with YouTube?
10:31-13:13 - How to get indexed in searches on YouTube
13:13-16:26 - Ministry Implications
16:26-20:36 - YouTube Best Practices
20:36-22:09 - Outro

TRANSCRIPT
Nick Clason (00:00):
What is up everybody? And welcome to another episode of the Hybrid Ministry podcast. Excited to be with you today. I am Nick Clason, your host, and today I wanted to talk about YouTube, and I actually wanted to talk about why I think it is useful for churches to quit live streaming their sermons. Now, hear me out. Hear me out. Before I dive into all that, let me just get a couple of things off the bat here said. So first and foremost, I wanna talk about YouTube. I don't like to talk about things on this show that I don't have a lot of experience with. And so today is an exception because I have almost zero experience with YouTube. And so for you to understand why and why and the history and everything like that, I just want to give a quick overview. So the church that I most recently served at, not where I am now, but where I most recently before here served at, had a almost 600 YouTube subscriber channel and over 300 or something like that, videos published on it.

Nick Clason (01:22):
The reason for that being that we started our YouTube channel and our YouTube show, the first day of Covid. And so our YouTube channel and strategy was primarily a digital version of what we would do if we were in the room. So we would think, let's do a game. And in our defense, I think what we did game wise and announcement wise and host wise was a little more YouTube centric than just simply throwing a camera in the back of the room and us pretending there were students there. But instead we were doing it a live stream. So what I mean by that is we built a studio and instead of a game, a screen game or something, we would do a segment. And it was almost like competition or challenge based. So I mean, if you think Mr. Beast or any of those big YouTubers, it was things like that.

Nick Clason (02:27):
So we were trying to think outside the box and trying to morph and do student ministry in a YouTube sort of way. One of the things that I think shot us in the foot was, first of all, we did it in a pinch. So we did it immediately and we pivoted very fast. And what we did and what we created, I personally was very proud of. But all that being said, once Covid began to run its course and things were over and opening a little bit more, people were looking for an in-person experience. And so what we were producing online was really no longer fulfilling the need that it needed to. So it probably needed an adjustment, and we started to make those adjustments. And what I mean by that is once Covid was over and kids were not stuck in their room, they're probably not that interested in our little segment or our little trivia game that we're playing or whatever on the screen.

Nick Clason (03:29):
But I do think that we had tons of formidable and useful spiritual content sermons, messages, whatever and whatnot that were totally useful. The problem was we did it in a full, long form show, so to speak. And so just youth group games and announcements and worship and all those things led into the message. And so you didn't get to the message until about 16 minutes on the actual YouTube thing. Typically the shows around 30 minutes or so. And so it was about half stuff and half a message. You get it If you're programming in the room, it's exactly what you would think as far as format wise, okay? And all of that. I was at a multi-site megachurch. All of that was handled by a creative team, a video editor, an audio producer, our tech department handled that, handled, uploading, posting, making it live, all those things.

Nick Clason (04:29):
And so I helped produce the content. I helped think through some of the philosophy and the strategy of it, but I was not boots on the ground in the weeds, hands on with doing, posting all the YouTube content and growing the channel. And in a lot of ways, the 600 something subs subscribers were a response to what happened during Covid, right? Everyone was subscribing to YouTube channels. Everyone that called our church home, parents, students alike, they subscribing to our channel. All right? So now fast forward to where I am now, and I'm at a little bit smaller church. We got a team of three, but we have around the same student count, or slightly more than the campus that I was at. And so we have a pretty frequent schedule Sunday, Wednesday, Sunday, Wednesday. So every three days, there's something that we need to be thinking for, planning for, and prepping for.

Nick Clason (05:26):
Not to mention, the entire team of where I'm at is completely brand new. And so we are basically building something from the ground up. There was some stuff in place before and whatever and whatnot. But the reality is we're starting from the ground up. One of the things that we're starting from the ground up, we're continuing on with the Wednesday meeting times, Sunday meeting times, but we're launching and fleshing out a completely digital strategy. And so with all that being said, I wanna just give that caveat to this is my experience with YouTube. I have been very involved in the production of YouTube content. I've learned a lot of things, some dos and don'ts and whatevers and whatnots. But also we are at the church of, we are gonna be changing our name here in January. And so I actually secured the YouTube channel for our future name of our student ministry, which is still a secret to a lot of people.

Nick Clason (06:28):
So because of that, I have not started posting things to YouTube. What I have started doing is I have started beta testing our YouTube strategy more on a video filming and editing side of things. Is this a sustainable and scalable process that I can continue to implement beyond on a week to week type basis? And so I've been practicing some things, and so I think I feel pretty good about the workflow and rhythm to be able to pull some of these things off. And so I'm excited about launching a YouTube channel and account in January knowing that I'll be able to replicate what I've been doing. So that's sort the background and the history of at least my personal experience with YouTube. So why start with YouTube? Alright, I think YouTube is, is actually a really unique social media platform. It's the only one of its kind in the category of Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, Twitter, YouTube is owned by Google, and it's the only social media platform in that category of those kind of core FI four or five that is owned by Google.

Nick Clason (07:52):
So you got Google, you got Meta, and then you got TikTok, who's sort of like the third player, the owner there in that, right? You've probably heard this before, but YouTube is actually widely considered by many to be the second largest search engine in the world behind only Google. Some if you get real nitty gritty with it, some actually say it's not the second largest, it's the third largest because Google Images is technically larger. Bottom line, all three, Google search, Google images and YouTube are owned by the same parent company, Google. And regardless of that, right? YouTube is a search engine. And so who among us has not installed a light fixture from the help of a friendly person who posted a YouTube tutorial on YouTube for us to watch and consume and use, Okay? And because it's a search engine, I think it's actually a pretty strategic advantage that can be used by us as pastors and ministry leaders.

Nick Clason (08:55):
Because if you think about it, when you search for a video, right? Search more how to or think how to fix, how to answer, how to do this, how to navigate this. So, or challenge us to think YouTubers rather than pastors or speakers. And I think that was one of our number one Achilles heels in where I was before. We were thinking YouTubers in a lot of ways, but in our, for example, and I'll get to this in a minute, but in our titling and in our thumbnails, we were treating this as series, the series Jesus series, Part three, March 1st. That's not a compelling, in captivating title for our audience who is with us every week and just wants to get on there and watch something on demand that may be helpful. But to someone who's gonna organically come across our YouTube content, that doesn't explain anything about what's in the video.

Nick Clason (09:59):
So why is live streaming problematic particularly? And full disclosure, I'm a student pastor. And so if you're watching this in a senior pastor and your church has good cameras, good audio equipment, good lighting to fully embrace a live streaming strategy, then by all means continue to do that. But if you're a youth pastor, I would not necessarily recommend building the gear, the switcher, the infrastructure of live streaming. All right, So let's talk about watch times. Cause this plays into it. According to a backlink.dot com, they surveyed and looked at 1.3 million YouTube videos to try and better understand the YouTube search feature and algorithm. What they determined was that longer videos significantly outperform shorter videos. And the average length of a first page YouTube video that's beneficial and helpful is 14 minutes and 50 seconds. All right? So you need to understand that the way that YouTube indexes and categorizes their videos is a combination of two things.

Nick Clason (11:15):
Overall, watch time paired with average percentage viewed. And so it turns out that videos in the 14 to 16 minute range actually index really well. In fact, those are the highest ones on search. There are other factors of things that help increase watch times, such as the hook or the intro. All right, So let's just think in the land of sermon delivering a sermon, Okay? I want you to just rank these two scenarios. Scenario number one. Hey everybody, welcome back. Real quick before I dive into tonight's message, I wanna remind you about the Churchwide Bake sales. It's coming up on Sunday, and if you want to earn money toward the mission trip, it is required that you be in attendance. If for some reason you can't make it, just be sure to talk to me afterwards. All right? Now, last week when we were in part three of our series, Jesus, we were reminded that Jesus was bonded together with his disciples because of their love.

Nick Clason (12:14):
And so tonight, what I wanna focus on in part four is what happens after the death burial and then ultimately resurrection of Jesus, right? That's scenario number one. That's you preaching to your congregation, your students, the people that call your church home. Let's talk about scenario number two. Hey, what if you could win a million dollars? What if I told you that the message of Jesus is actually one that supersedes and rises far above the benefits of winning millions and millions of dollars? Do you see how one at least has the intention of a hook? I don't know if it's good or not, right? That's why I say in fairness, I'm not a YouTube sivan or expert, but I want you, I wanna challenge you to think like a YouTuber. And so where one is taking care of housekeeping in your student ministry, what's going on the bake sale? The second one is actually thinking about YouTube first. It's creating a hook. So what are some implications for ministry? Well, first of all, a 30 to 45 minute sermon where the speaker is presenting primarily to a room full of people versus not really looking or paying attention to the camera. It's just there. Capturing them, doesn't act, Doesn't exactly right. Speak YouTube's preferred language. Think about it, in a live room environment anyway, messages between the length of 10 to 25 minutes seem to have become a pretty optimal length for student ministries who gather in person.

Nick Clason (13:51):
And I also think that if you take your YouTube or if you take your message content that you're going to already naturally deliver into a room, what I'm gonna actually propose here is that instead of capturing you delivering live to your room, I'm gonna propose that you prefill your content. And what happens is when you prefill your content, number one, you can create and craft a hook that is specific in particular for YouTube. Secondly, you can shave the time down to fit into that 14 to 16 minute window. Even if you go longer in the room, aim for that 14 to 16 minute window. And third, it gives you the opportunity to practice your message before you get up there and deliver it to a live room full of teenagers or parishioners or congregation members. And so that's one of the things that we've been doing.

Nick Clason (14:58):
We teach live every single Wednesday night, but during that week, after I'm done with my prep, I sit down, I put up a camera and iFilm my message. Then I do a little bit of post production, I add a sound bed behind it. I do some flying in graphics, lower thirds slides, and I put those on the screen as well. And that's gonna be our strategy for YouTube. Why? Number one, it's gonna let us do a YouTube first messaging. We're not gonna bury it behind a bunch of other elements. We're gonna go with the message first. If YouTube is in fact a search engine and kids are out there searching for answers to their faith, then let's give them the answers to their faith. And they might not care about our church announcements. They might not care about the worship, but what they do want is they want answers.

Nick Clason (15:45):
So answer the question, tell them what you're gonna talk about with the hook right up front at the very beginning of the video. And that for me is one of the hardest shifts, is moving from holding my ace content up my sleeve until the very end, waiting for the message to climax, but instead giving a teaser and a preview at the very beginning of the message. That's a shift. YouTubers do that really well. Pastors build to their ultimate conclusion, and so they try to create this mystery around what's gonna come. But the reality is on YouTube, if you don't hook them right off the bat immediately, then they are gone and on to the next thing. And so think like a YouTuber. Let's talk through some other YouTube best practices. Like I said, make sure your titling is something that a YouTuber would search for as opposed to Jesus Week three, Mark 14, one through 10.

Nick Clason (16:39):
That's not as captivating a title as Is hell a real place dealing with crippling anxiety or is rest even possible? You see the difference between those two. Think YouTube, think search engine, think click bait, think controversial type titles that help your video perform better because it's a search engine. The meta description or the title, the description of the video, those things all play a huge role in the YouTube ranking. So make sure you spend a little bit of time thinking through and crafting some good compelling descriptions. And then you can also link to things on your church's website or social media, or maybe even some products in the description of your video. Also include tags. YouTube gives you a spot to do that. So include keywords from your videos or tags that relate back to the topic. All three of those factors, title, description, tags, all play a role in the searchability of your YouTube content.

Nick Clason (17:33):
Also, your thumbnail plays plays a role. Go look at Mr. Beast. He's like number one, YouTuber in the world. Go look at his thumbnails on his YouTube channel and just get some photos with a decent iPhone, maybe a Google Pixel phone to take some halfway decent portrait shots. Throw some catchy text over it using maybe something like PowerPoint Canva, or if you have more skill Photoshop and use different catchy thumbnails to try on your videos. You can also then use a free tool like trends.google.com to look up your searchable words and compare things. AB testing. If you wanted to use the word fear versus the word anxiety, put those into trends.google.com. And you'll notice that anxiety has a higher search level. So use that.

Nick Clason (18:25):
And then also comments and shares and people embedding your videos are all things that are gonna help index it better in the YouTube algorithm. So ask for things like comments, ask for things like shares, and then on the embedding feature, try to embed your YouTube videos onto your church website onto your, And so then your website is hosting your YouTube video and embedding it already helps index it better. So you already have a platform that people are going to. So use that. That's a feature that's already built in and that can help you get going. All right, what if you're just starting? What starting gear do you need, right? Listen, if you're gonna go budget friendly, get a nice smartphone, right? I just gotta Google Pixel, the latest iPhone have some great things. One of the main things for filming is you need a separate microphone, Okay?

Nick Clason (19:24):
So you can get, just go on Amazon, do a quick search for a shotgun microphone with your style of phone connection that's needed. You can get something for under a hundred bucks. You can also get a lapel, a wireless lapel lighting. Natural lighting is great. Some ring lights can help. Do the trick. Get a tripod that you can stick your phone on. If you want a more professional rig, then listen. Just go to YouTube, search best YouTube starter set for gear, and you'll find something. I love everything that Brady Sheer from Pro Church Tools has to say just about anything in the church digital space. And in fact, I think the day I'm recording this, he yesterday just trapped a video on his favorite camera gear. So go copy that if you got the budget to do it and make it happen. And then you're just gonna have to do things like edit, and you're gonna figure out you wanna use iMovie, Da Vinci, Resolve Adobe Final Cut Pro.

Nick Clason (20:20):
Again, budget for some of those are cheaper, like iMovie and Da Vinci Resolve are free. More expensive options are the Adobe Suite or Final Cut Pro. You're just gonna have to see what you have and what's available out there. But listen, my recommendation, again, like I said, get on YouTube. Treat it like a search engine. Get out there. Put your message, the message of hope that you have about Jesus. Create a YouTube channel. Prefill your content or film it after you deliver it. If you want it to be a little bit more polished and you've a little bit more familiar with it, and just start posting some stuff out there, right? Try some things. Follow some of these best practices. You may not go viral overnight. I can't promise that, but these are some of the best practices out there on YouTube. And so simply following them is just gonna give you the best chance to be discovered.

Nick Clason (21:12):
And that's the goal. We want students, teenagers, or people wrestling with faith to come across the content that we have to offer, and hopefully give them something that's helpful. And this is just a way to expand your impact and your reach as a youth pastor, as a regular pastor in 2022 and beyond. Hey, I hope you guys found this episode helpful. If you did get, Man, leave us a rating or a review. We are on iTunes, Spotify, all the major podcast platforms, hybrid ministry. We're also on Twitter at hybrid ministry. We have full transcripts of everything. We provide this to y'all at hybridministry.xyz Come check us out there and we will talk to you guys.

]]> SUMMARY
In this Episode Nick explains and explores his experience with YouTube. What he learned from launching a YouTube channel during COVID, and his new recommendation for churches and ministry leaders for delivering useful content online for Gen Z and Gen Alpha and beyond.

Follow us on Twitter http://www.twitter.com/hybridministry
Or get FREE transcripts at http://www.hybridministry.xyz
Or find more written content like this from Nick at http://www.myyouthmin.com

TIMECODES
00:00-00:36 - Intro
00:36-07:22 - The lessons I've learned from starting a YouTube channel during COVID
07:22-10:31 - Why start with YouTube?
10:31-13:13 - How to get indexed in searches on YouTube
13:13-16:26 - Ministry Implications
16:26-20:36 - YouTube Best Practices
20:36-22:09 - Outro

TRANSCRIPT
Nick Clason (00:00):
What is up everybody? And welcome to another episode of the Hybrid Ministry podcast. Excited to be with you today. I am Nick Clason, your host, and today I wanted to talk about YouTube, and I actually wanted to talk about why I think it is useful for churches to quit live streaming their sermons. Now, hear me out. Hear me out. Before I dive into all that, let me just get a couple of things off the bat here said. So first and foremost, I wanna talk about YouTube. I don't like to talk about things on this show that I don't have a lot of experience with. And so today is an exception because I have almost zero experience with YouTube. And so for you to understand why and why and the history and everything like that, I just want to give a quick overview. So the church that I most recently served at, not where I am now, but where I most recently before here served at, had a almost 600 YouTube subscriber channel and over 300 or something like that, videos published on it.

Nick Clason (01:22):
The reason for that being that we started our YouTube channel and our YouTube show, the first day of Covid. And so our YouTube channel and strategy was primarily a digital version of what we would do if we were in the room. So we would think, let's do a game. And in our defense, I think what we did game wise and announcement wise and host wise was a little more YouTube centric than just simply throwing a camera in the back of the room and us pretending there were students there. But instead we were doing it a live stream. So what I mean by that is we built a studio and instead of a game, a screen game or something, we would do a segment. And it was almost like competition or challenge based. So I mean, if you think Mr. Beast or any of those big YouTubers, it was things like that.

Nick Clason (02:27):
So we were trying to think outside the box and trying to morph and do student ministry in a YouTube sort of way. One of the things that I think shot us in the foot was, first of all, we did it in a pinch. So we did it immediately and we pivoted very fast. And what we did and what we created, I personally was very proud of. But all that being said, once Covid began to run its course and things were over and opening a little bit more, people were looking for an in-person experience. And so what we were producing online was really no longer fulfilling the need that it needed to. So it probably needed an adjustment, and we started to make those adjustments. And what I mean by that is once Covid was over and kids were not stuck in their room, they're probably not that interested in our little segment or our little trivia game that we're playing or whatever on the screen.

Nick Clason (03:29):
But I do think that we had tons of formidable and useful spiritual content sermons, messages, whatever and whatnot that were totally useful. The problem was we did it in a full, long form show, so to speak. And so just youth group games and announcements and worship and all those things led into the message. And so you didn't get to the message until about 16 minutes on the actual YouTube thing. Typically the shows around 30 minutes or so. And so it was about half stuff and half a message. You get it If you're programming in the room, it's exactly what you would think as far as format wise, okay? And all of that. I was at a multi-site megachurch. All of that was handled by a creative team, a video editor, an audio producer, our tech department handled that, handled, uploading, posting, making it live, all those things.

Nick Clason (04:29):
And so I helped produce the content. I helped think through some of the philosophy and the strategy of it, but I was not boots on the ground in the weeds, hands on with doing, posting all the YouTube content and growing the channel. And in a lot of ways, the 600 something subs subscribers were a response to what happened during Covid, right? Everyone was subscribing to YouTube channels. Everyone that called our church home, parents, students alike, they subscribing to our channel. All right? So now fast forward to where I am now, and I'm at a little bit smaller church. We got a team of three, but we have around the same student count, or slightly more than the campus that I was at. And so we have a pretty frequent schedule Sunday, Wednesday, Sunday, Wednesday. So every three days, there's something that we need to be thinking for, planning for, and prepping for.

Nick Clason (05:26):
Not to mention, the entire team of where I'm at is completely brand new. And so we are basically building something from the ground up. There was some stuff in place before and whatever and whatnot. But the reality is we're starting from the ground up. One of the things that we're starting from the ground up, we're continuing on with the Wednesday meeting times, Sunday meeting times, but we're launching and fleshing out a completely digital strategy. And so with all that being said, I wanna just give that caveat to this is my experience with YouTube. I have been very involved in the production of YouTube content. I've learned a lot of things, some dos and don'ts and whatevers and whatnots. But also we are at the church of, we are gonna be changing our name here in January. And so I actually secured the YouTube channel for our future name of our student ministry, which is still a secret to a lot of people.

Nick Clason (06:28):
So because of that, I have not started posting things to YouTube. What I have started doing is I have started beta testing our YouTube strategy more on a video filming and editing side of things. Is this a sustainable and scalable process that I can continue to implement beyond on a week to week type basis? And so I've been practicing some things, and so I think I feel pretty good about the workflow and rhythm to be able to pull some of these things off. And so I'm excited about launching a YouTube channel and account in January knowing that I'll be able to replicate what I've been doing. So that's sort the background and the history of at least my personal experience with YouTube. So why start with YouTube? Alright, I think YouTube is, is actually a really unique social media platform. It's the only one of its kind in the category of Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, Twitter, YouTube is owned by Google, and it's the only social media platform in that category of those kind of core FI four or five that is owned by Google.

Nick Clason (07:52):
So you got Google, you got Meta, and then you got TikTok, who's sort of like the third player, the owner there in that, right? You've probably heard this before, but YouTube is actually widely considered by many to be the second largest search engine in the world behind only Google. Some if you get real nitty gritty with it, some actually say it's not the second largest, it's the third largest because Google Images is technically larger. Bottom line, all three, Google search, Google images and YouTube are owned by the same parent company, Google. And regardless of that, right? YouTube is a search engine. And so who among us has not installed a light fixture from the help of a friendly person who posted a YouTube tutorial on YouTube for us to watch and consume and use, Okay? And because it's a search engine, I think it's actually a pretty strategic advantage that can be used by us as pastors and ministry leaders.

Nick Clason (08:55):
Because if you think about it, when you search for a video, right? Search more how to or think how to fix, how to answer, how to do this, how to navigate this. So, or challenge us to think YouTubers rather than pastors or speakers. And I think that was one of our number one Achilles heels in where I was before. We were thinking YouTubers in a lot of ways, but in our, for example, and I'll get to this in a minute, but in our titling and in our thumbnails, we were treating this as series, the series Jesus series, Part three, March 1st. That's not a compelling, in captivating title for our audience who is with us every week and just wants to get on there and watch something on demand that may be helpful. But to someone who's gonna organically come across our YouTube content, that doesn't explain anything about what's in the video.

Nick Clason (09:59):
So why is live streaming problematic particularly? And full disclosure, I'm a student pastor. And so if you're watching this in a senior pastor and your church has good cameras, good audio equipment, good lighting to fully embrace a live streaming strategy, then by all means continue to do that. But if you're a youth pastor, I would not necessarily recommend building the gear, the switcher, the infrastructure of live streaming. All right, So let's talk about watch times. Cause this plays into it. According to a backlink.dot com, they surveyed and looked at 1.3 million YouTube videos to try and better understand the YouTube search feature and algorithm. What they determined was that longer videos significantly outperform shorter videos. And the average length of a first page YouTube video that's beneficial and helpful is 14 minutes and 50 seconds. All right? So you need to understand that the way that YouTube indexes and categorizes their videos is a combination of two things.

Nick Clason (11:15):
Overall, watch time paired with average percentage viewed. And so it turns out that videos in the 14 to 16 minute range actually index really well. In fact, those are the highest ones on search. There are other factors of things that help increase watch times, such as the hook or the intro. All right, So let's just think in the land of sermon delivering a sermon, Okay? I want you to just rank these two scenarios. Scenario number one. Hey everybody, welcome back. Real quick before I dive into tonight's message, I wanna remind you about the Churchwide Bake sales. It's coming up on Sunday, and if you want to earn money toward the mission trip, it is required that you be in attendance. If for some reason you can't make it, just be sure to talk to me afterwards. All right? Now, last week when we were in part three of our series, Jesus, we were reminded that Jesus was bonded together with his disciples because of their love.

Nick Clason (12:14):
And so tonight, what I wanna focus on in part four is what happens after the death burial and then ultimately resurrection of Jesus, right? That's scenario number one. That's you preaching to your congregation, your students, the people that call your church home. Let's talk about scenario number two. Hey, what if you could win a million dollars? What if I told you that the message of Jesus is actually one that supersedes and rises far above the benefits of winning millions and millions of dollars? Do you see how one at least has the intention of a hook? I don't know if it's good or not, right? That's why I say in fairness, I'm not a YouTube sivan or expert, but I want you, I wanna challenge you to think like a YouTuber. And so where one is taking care of housekeeping in your student ministry, what's going on the bake sale? The second one is actually thinking about YouTube first. It's creating a hook. So what are some implications for ministry? Well, first of all, a 30 to 45 minute sermon where the speaker is presenting primarily to a room full of people versus not really looking or paying attention to the camera. It's just there. Capturing them, doesn't act, Doesn't exactly right. Speak YouTube's preferred language. Think about it, in a live room environment anyway, messages between the length of 10 to 25 minutes seem to have become a pretty optimal length for student ministries who gather in person.

Nick Clason (13:51):
And I also think that if you take your YouTube or if you take your message content that you're going to already naturally deliver into a room, what I'm gonna actually propose here is that instead of capturing you delivering live to your room, I'm gonna propose that you prefill your content. And what happens is when you prefill your content, number one, you can create and craft a hook that is specific in particular for YouTube. Secondly, you can shave the time down to fit into that 14 to 16 minute window. Even if you go longer in the room, aim for that 14 to 16 minute window. And third, it gives you the opportunity to practice your message before you get up there and deliver it to a live room full of teenagers or parishioners or congregation members. And so that's one of the things that we've been doing.

Nick Clason (14:58):
We teach live every single Wednesday night, but during that week, after I'm done with my prep, I sit down, I put up a camera and iFilm my message. Then I do a little bit of post production, I add a sound bed behind it. I do some flying in graphics, lower thirds slides, and I put those on the screen as well. And that's gonna be our strategy for YouTube. Why? Number one, it's gonna let us do a YouTube first messaging. We're not gonna bury it behind a bunch of other elements. We're gonna go with the message first. If YouTube is in fact a search engine and kids are out there searching for answers to their faith, then let's give them the answers to their faith. And they might not care about our church announcements. They might not care about the worship, but what they do want is they want answers.

Nick Clason (15:45):
So answer the question, tell them what you're gonna talk about with the hook right up front at the very beginning of the video. And that for me is one of the hardest shifts, is moving from holding my ace content up my sleeve until the very end, waiting for the message to climax, but instead giving a teaser and a preview at the very beginning of the message. That's a shift. YouTubers do that really well. Pastors build to their ultimate conclusion, and so they try to create this mystery around what's gonna come. But the reality is on YouTube, if you don't hook them right off the bat immediately, then they are gone and on to the next thing. And so think like a YouTuber. Let's talk through some other YouTube best practices. Like I said, make sure your titling is something that a YouTuber would search for as opposed to Jesus Week three, Mark 14, one through 10.

Nick Clason (16:39):
That's not as captivating a title as Is hell a real place dealing with crippling anxiety or is rest even possible? You see the difference between those two. Think YouTube, think search engine, think click bait, think controversial type titles that help your video perform better because it's a search engine. The meta description or the title, the description of the video, those things all play a huge role in the YouTube ranking. So make sure you spend a little bit of time thinking through and crafting some good compelling descriptions. And then you can also link to things on your church's website or social media, or maybe even some products in the description of your video. Also include tags. YouTube gives you a spot to do that. So include keywords from your videos or tags that relate back to the topic. All three of those factors, title, description, tags, all play a role in the searchability of your YouTube content.

Nick Clason (17:33):
Also, your thumbnail plays plays a role. Go look at Mr. Beast. He's like number one, YouTuber in the world. Go look at his thumbnails on his YouTube channel and just get some photos with a decent iPhone, maybe a Google Pixel phone to take some halfway decent portrait shots. Throw some catchy text over it using maybe something like PowerPoint Canva, or if you have more skill Photoshop and use different catchy thumbnails to try on your videos. You can also then use a free tool like trends.google.com to look up your searchable words and compare things. AB testing. If you wanted to use the word fear versus the word anxiety, put those into trends.google.com. And you'll notice that anxiety has a higher search level. So use that.

Nick Clason (18:25):
And then also comments and shares and people embedding your videos are all things that are gonna help index it better in the YouTube algorithm. So ask for things like comments, ask for things like shares, and then on the embedding feature, try to embed your YouTube videos onto your church website onto your, And so then your website is hosting your YouTube video and embedding it already helps index it better. So you already have a platform that people are going to. So use that. That's a feature that's already built in and that can help you get going. All right, what if you're just starting? What starting gear do you need, right? Listen, if you're gonna go budget friendly, get a nice smartphone, right? I just gotta Google Pixel, the latest iPhone have some great things. One of the main things for filming is you need a separate microphone, Okay?

Nick Clason (19:24):
So you can get, just go on Amazon, do a quick search for a shotgun microphone with your style of phone connection that's needed. You can get something for under a hundred bucks. You can also get a lapel, a wireless lapel lighting. Natural lighting is great. Some ring lights can help. Do the trick. Get a tripod that you can stick your phone on. If you want a more professional rig, then listen. Just go to YouTube, search best YouTube starter set for gear, and you'll find something. I love everything that Brady Sheer from Pro Church Tools has to say just about anything in the church digital space. And in fact, I think the day I'm recording this, he yesterday just trapped a video on his favorite camera gear. So go copy that if you got the budget to do it and make it happen. And then you're just gonna have to do things like edit, and you're gonna figure out you wanna use iMovie, Da Vinci, Resolve Adobe Final Cut Pro.

Nick Clason (20:20):
Again, budget for some of those are cheaper, like iMovie and Da Vinci Resolve are free. More expensive options are the Adobe Suite or Final Cut Pro. You're just gonna have to see what you have and what's available out there. But listen, my recommendation, again, like I said, get on YouTube. Treat it like a search engine. Get out there. Put your message, the message of hope that you have about Jesus. Create a YouTube channel. Prefill your content or film it after you deliver it. If you want it to be a little bit more polished and you've a little bit more familiar with it, and just start posting some stuff out there, right? Try some things. Follow some of these best practices. You may not go viral overnight. I can't promise that, but these are some of the best practices out there on YouTube. And so simply following them is just gonna give you the best chance to be discovered.

Nick Clason (21:12):
And that's the goal. We want students, teenagers, or people wrestling with faith to come across the content that we have to offer, and hopefully give them something that's helpful. And this is just a way to expand your impact and your reach as a youth pastor, as a regular pastor in 2022 and beyond. Hey, I hope you guys found this episode helpful. If you did get, Man, leave us a rating or a review. We are on iTunes, Spotify, all the major podcast platforms, hybrid ministry. We're also on Twitter at hybrid ministry. We have full transcripts of everything. We provide this to y'all at hybridministry.xyz Come check us out there and we will talk to you guys.

]]> Episode 016: Derry Prenkert on how the invention of the iPhone has radically changed how Pastors and ministry leaders accomplish the mission https://www.hybridministry.xyz/016 215e4582-7ca6-42f9-8267-734b0f4478d4 Thu, 03 Nov 2022 04:00:00 -0500 Nick Clason 016 Derry Prenkert on how the invention of the iPhone has radically changed how Pastors and ministry leaders accomplish the mission full Nick Clason In this episode, Nick sits down with his friend, Derry Prenkert, a 20+ year youth ministry veteran. Derry shares about the monumental shift of the invention of the smart phone. How things were before, and how things have shifted, but most importantly, how we utilize this technology for our benefit and gain to reach more students for the mission of Jesus. 43:52 no SUMMARY In this episode, Nick sits down with his friend, Derry Prenkert, a 20+ year youth ministry veteran. Derry shares about the monumental shift of the invention of the smart phone. How things were before, and how things have shifted, but most importantly, how we utilize this technology for our benefit and gain to reach more students for the mission of Jesus. Follow us on Twitter http://www.twitter.com/hybridministry Find all the resources you need from the podcast http://www.hybridministry.xyz Follow Derry online: -TWITTER: https://twitter.com/derryprenkert -INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/derryprenkert/ -PODCAST: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/my-third-decade-in-youth-ministry/id1338273697 SHOWNOTES Steve Job's introduction of the iPhone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7qPAY9JqE4 Derry's Parenting Resource: https://www.downloadyouthministry.com/p/adolescence%2C-technology-and-parenting/training-3996.html Johnny Mac's Stuff: https://yourhouseblend.com/jonnysblend TIMECODES 00:00-03:30 Intro 03:30-10:53 The impact of the invention of the iPhone 10:53-14:30 What happened in ministry after the invention of the iPhone 14:30-23:20 How have you responded since then? 23:20-32:44 When do you ask phones to be put away? 32:44-41:23 How can we utilize technology now to further and advance God's mission? 41:23-43:38 Outro TRANSCRIPT Nick Clason (00:00): What is up everybody? Welcome to another episode of the Hybrid Ministry podcast. Excited to be with you today. Uh, today we have our very first, uh, guest interview, uh, friend of mine Derry Pinker. He's located in, um, Amish town, Nape Indiana. Um, right now, uh, he worked at that church for over 20 years, and then he was at another church for just a couple years, super large church in, uh, Kentucky. So, um, excited to bring you Derry's conversation. Uh, he mentions a couple of different links. He talks about Steve Jobs' keynote, a resource that he has on download youth ministry and echo ministry. I'm gonna include all of those in the show notes, but without any further ado, let's just hop in so you can get to know Derry. Nick Clason (00:51): All right, well, what's up Derry? Good to have you on the podcast. Welcome, man. Derry Prenkert (00:56): Yeah, it's so good to be with you, Nick. Thanks for having me on. Nick Clason (00:58): Yeah. So as we were talking a little bit before I hit record here, you have a podcast or did, or what would you define the, the existence of your podcast? Right Now? Derry Prenkert (01:11): The status of my third decade. It is, it has been on the longest hiatus ever. Um, yeah. And it is coming back. Um, it's tied to this whole world of the shift that I've, I've made from being in a local church to now serving pastors in the local church. Yeah. And I'm in a season of getting all the groundwork laid for that. I, uh, have every intention, every intention by, uh, early 2023 that it's gonna launch back out. And there are some, there are actually some things already recorded for it, so, so it hasn't completely gone away. There, there is, there is a future to it. Nick Clason (01:46): That's good. Cuz it's still in my podcast catcher, so I'm not unsubscribing from, I just wanna let you know that it's still there. So, um, but back when I mowed the lawn when I worked two churches ago, I think I heard you, um, talk about like, uh, this really big shift in culture and you noticed that it was, uh, have to do with when the iPhone came into existence. Mm-hmm. , just give us a little bit, like give us your story, how long you've been, you know, doing youth ministry, um, and how you have a beneficial perspective of before technology and phones are a part of what we have to navigate and deal with. And then post, and then maybe we can just kind of chat about how we navigate that as, you know, people who are, uh, ministering to people, students, um, who are very much entrenched in this technology, like Lane and world. Derry Prenkert (02:42): Yeah, absolutely. So, um, my story is somebody that started in youth ministry at 19 years old. I was just about to turn 20 and I started an internship and that was back in 1996. Mm-hmm. . Yeah, I'm old. Um, and so graduated from high school in 95, start in, in ministry in 96. And so I get 11 years of ministry. Um, and in those 11 years, uh, you know, cell phones, car phones were around when I started . Yeah. And cell phones were around when I finished college in 1999. But they were, they roamed the minute you got outside of about 10 miles from your house and you only use them in emergencies. And then, and then it moved into, you know, 2004, 2005, the razor flip. Flum was the coolest thing in the world is texting, kind of entered the picture mm-hmm. . Um, and then, you know, so I, but, but really it was 2007 when Steve Jobs holds up this, this phone. Derry Prenkert (03:36): And it's actually interesting to go back and watch, I don't know if you've ever watched that keynote when he does it. No, I should, but, but he, he, he introduces it and is pretty prophetic, like the level of what he's talking about where technology is heading. Cause he said this is gonna revolutionize and change. And he says, he says, What would happen if we were to introduce a computer operating system, a phone and a iPod all in one thing. Yeah. And that's, that's the heartbeat of what they did. Um, and actually I, I do a technology thing with parents, uh, adolescents, technology and parenting. Mm-hmm. , uh, what I do is, I'll actually, it's, it's a fun little exercise cuz if you think about, you got, most parents of teenagers right now are, are there children of the eighties if they're really, if they've got younger, like their youngest kids are teenagers now, nineties or maybe early two thousands mm-hmm. . And so what I do is I'll put up on the screen different, like, what was the technology of our time. And so like, you know, in the eighties you got like VCRs and corded phones and, and a Walkman or a giant computer that has a green screen maybe. Nick Clason (04:41): Yeah. I found the VCR yesterday in our building, so that was cool, Derry Prenkert (04:46): Dude. And, and did you try playing anything? Cause it probably just ate the tape, right? Nick Clason (04:49): Yeah, no, I was like, I don't, I don't even know if we would ever need this, but, Right. Yeah. Here it Derry Prenkert (04:53): Is. Yeah. Yeah. It's, see the, in the eighties in technology, like everything got fixed by blowing on it. Um, so like the VHS tape wasn't working. You blew on it. The, the Nintendo cartridge. Yep. You blew in that and then blew in the box. Mm-hmm. . So that was, you know, eighties in the nineties, you have cell phones come, you got the Discman mm-hmm. that I remember. I would, as the nineties I would run or exercise with a discman, but I had to be careful not to run too hard because the CD would skip Yeah. Nick Clason (05:17): As I skipping. I Derry Prenkert (05:18): Remember that. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and then, you know, early two thousands social media in MySpace shows up. Yep. But, you know, garins show up, Uhhuh, um, digital cameras are a big deal in another 2000 flat screen TVs. Right. So we walk through these different, different moments and I say in 2007, Steve Jobs holds up this, this little device. And everything I just said was around in those different decades now lives inside this single device. Mm. Interesting. It is your video games. It is your music, you know, it's your disc man, it's your VCR or your DVD player. It is your Nick Clason (05:53): Computer, your calendar. Yeah. Derry Prenkert (05:55): Yeah. It's everything. It's all there. And, and so for parents, it's just saying like, recognize how significant this shift is. And so for those of us in ministry, if we are in that age, it's important to recognize that for those of us that are, I I, a lot of youth pastors are maybe a little, um, younger than the parents that they have. Right. Remember, like, these are the parents you're working with that, that this shift has happened. It might be a little more native to you as a youth pastor if you're in your, your mid to early twenties mm-hmm. . But it's foreign. It's, it's, it's so different and, and it's, it's changed so much. Um, the two things to kind of say, when I look at youth culture, cuz that's where I spent a lot of my time Yeah. That I would say are huge, is, uh, one youth group in church. Derry Prenkert (06:40): I was at a church that ha drew from multiple high schools. And pre 2007, we were the place to go to connect with friends. Hmm. Um, now we saw God move and we were, we were, we were unapologetic that that wasn't the, that wasn't the primary point. The primary point was to encounter a relationship with Jesus, to understand your call, to be a part of this kingdom work. But the appeal for my kids, I'm gonna drop names that nobody knows from Wawa c high school at Northwood High School. Mm-hmm. and Goshan High School. Someone knows each other. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Um, uh, they can meet weekly at our place. Right. Uh, now with the institution of not only, you know, the, just the move of the cell phone with texting, but then once the iPhone came in, it wasn't just you, you could, you didn't have to go there to meet a place you could actually interact face to face, you know, through FaceTime, through, through, um, whatever it might be. Derry Prenkert (07:33): Google Meet all do different stuff. You could, you could do that over the phone. So it became less important. The other thing that's super intriguing is, I don't know about Eich, but the greatest day of my life, uh, as a teenager was when I turned 16 in one month in my town, because that was the day I could get my driver's license. Yeah. And by getting my driver's license, that meant a whole new, uh, level of freedom, empowerment, and ownership. Like that driver's license was my ticket to independence. Yeah. I've noticed, um, a major change. I can't believe how many kids I interact with that are like 16, 17 and, you know, we're doing an event. They're like, Hey, can I get a ride? I'm like, You don't have your license yet. Yeah. No. And, and, and, and I I don't have like the scientific proof to this, just the conversation. Derry Prenkert (08:25): Sure. It's, they're like, Why would I, why would I need it? Well, yeah, the big shift came like that that license was my way to get to my friends. Mm-hmm. and my community. Now, this, this thing that we can hold in our hands is our ticket to interact. And so, so like one of the, I guess like the big implication that I would throw out that is huge is it it has radically transformed our connectivity mm-hmm. , um, even with the people right next to us. Yeah. Um, so I mean, so many other thoughts, but there's, those are just a couple things like that we recognize. Another way I say it is like we basically now are carrying around super computers in our pockets. Yeah. That, uh, it's, they are that we're, we have, we have excessive, uh, access to information. We are, we are constantly connected. Um, and it's like invasive, you know, it's not like it's, when's the last time I I I, you can answer this or the people are listening, When's the last time you actually turned off powered down your phone Nick Clason (09:26): On your own? Well, mine's new, so never Derry Prenkert (09:29): Yeah. . Nick Clason (09:30): Right, Derry Prenkert (09:30): Right. And it's, it's like impossible to, like, they've made it so it's hard to do. And so it's always there. Now, now I might sound like I'm interesting. Yeah. I'm negative on this. I do mourn more in some things because I'm old and I'm an old guy sitting saying, Get off my lawn kids. You know, a little bit. But, um, but those are some of the things that I think are big that have changed. And so, so just the way we go about ministry has to change with it. It is in my mind, we measure time on before and after like, events that come to mind in youth ministry world, most youth pastors that were around before Columbine mm-hmm. and after Columbine, they know it changed the way you had to handle liabilities and safety Nick Clason (10:10): Measures. Yeah. Derry Prenkert (10:11): Mm-hmm. pre nine 11. Post nine 11 as a, as a culture, our life shifted on how we view, uh, things pre covid, post covid. We're still learning that all. Yeah. I still could make the argument pre iPhone and post iPhone, pre smartphone and post iPhone could be, could be the most significant watershed cultural moment that we've experienced in the LA since World War ii. Yeah. Nick Clason (10:35): I don't, one of, one of like, I, one of the guys I listen to a lot, his name, you know, Brady Shear mm-hmm. , he talks about this being the biggest communication shift that we've seen in 500 years. So he's referencing that being the printing press. Yeah. And now with all this digital stuff. So that's a great call. Let's go like, let's go there a little bit. You said, um, pre iPhone people would gather from multiple high schools to your church. Did you notice that stopping, um, after, did you notice attendance shifting or did you just notice that still happens but there's, there's now just an iPhone in everyone's pocket and that's changing how they're interacting. But things are still, still sort of the same. Like, what would you say was, uh, like a, an actual effect, right? Yeah. Of that attendance thing you're talking about. Derry Prenkert (11:25): This is not scientific at all. It's very guttural and it's nature. Uh, and it's my experience, I would say it didn't, for some it stopped. But I would say the bigger thing is it got more sporadic. In fact, you we're just talking, I don't know, it would be fascinating. You know, they talk about how people are coming to church less often Right. Than they used to. That a regular attendant is, attender is considered once every month or once every three weeks. Right? Yep. I wonder how that correlates to the institution of like the, the actual cell phone and smartphone because Yeah, because that was the thing. Like pre pre smartphone, um, even kids from the same school, there was the chance to just, you know, we're not just going through in passing periods. We're gonna have a small group time. We're gonna have a pre hangout post hangout mm-hmm. Derry Prenkert (12:09): once a week. This is my guaranteed time. I'm gonna get time with my friends. Yeah. Um, and so it got more sporadic. Yeah. Uh, definitely. And, and that could be in part because they could have the community outside of the youth group. Um, but it still, that's why I would, I would still be a firm believer. There is a limitation to what you can accomplish over digital. I think anybody that truly had to walk through the PA pandemic and live completely on a screen would a hundred percent agree with me. You can't replace, um, interpersonal in person reaction Totally. With digital. But you can find more connection or, or you can find connection in the gaps through that. And so I think it got more, um, more sporadic, uh, in nature. And yes, they are showing up with them. And I mean, man, whew, how many conversations do I have? Derry Prenkert (12:58): I had with parents and leaders on, We gotta, we gotta, we gotta like force kids to turn these off or tell 'em they can't have 'em at all. And then, and then the issue of parents talking about what age do I give my kid a phone? When do I not? Because not only are they carrying it around, I mean, it's just, it's just there. And so the amount of attention that was going down to it when they were around that, that I'd say kinda really hit in the two, like 2014 15 phrase when everybody got one. Mm-hmm. , uh, everybody had one. Nick Clason (13:28): Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like, even my kids in first grade and his teacher sended stuff on his like e backpack and then his like e folder and he has like iPad time. Like, so my sort of thing is, while you may lament the loss of some of what was prefo and pre-technology, um, it's not going anywhere. And so, you know, cuz I, I'm with you sometimes I have leaders who are like, We just need to get rid of the phones, take 'em away from the kids. Like make sure that they, you know, only use paper bibles and that, you know, it's, it's wrong to read God's word on a screen type of thing. And that's, that's a high preference maybe mm-hmm. . And there may be some validity to some of those things, but the fact of the matter is like, why, You know, my argument is why are we discouraging a kid from reading the Bible if it's super accessible to them and in their pocket 24 hours a day? Nick Clason (14:25): Um, you know, so, So what have you noticed or what are some of the things that you've done realizing like, we can't, we can't get ourselves away from these. They are everywhere. They're on all the time. They are our everything. Our day planner, our calendar and our social life in a lot of ways. You know, like what are some of the things that you've, you've tried to embrace as a youth pastor, um, to maybe leverage them or lean into them and then maybe what are some of the times that you've discouraged use of them? Because you're like the, the, you know, the re the result of what's gonna happen here physically is gonna be greater than what is happening if you're on your Derry Prenkert (15:02): Phone. Yeah. It's great. Um, in the thing I do with parents, which total shameless plug, it's actually on D ym, you get it, download Youth Mystery Nick Clason (15:12): And then you have an extra $4 in your pocket. Yeah, yeah, Derry Prenkert (15:15): Yeah. From that roof. Yeah. It's called Adolescents Parenting and Technology. I use an illustration. I, and I, it's an illustration that, that hit me is our phones are a knife, um, and a knife, uh, can serve many purposes. Uh, a knife is, can be used to spread butter. It can be used to whittle wood to make, uh, amazing things. It can be, it can be, uh, used to, you know, cut through things that are hard to cut through. It also can be used to kill people. Um, it's really about what is happening with the person that has it in their hands. And a part of that is what's their intentions as well as what's their awareness of a knife. You know, I've got, you've got younger kids. Mm-hmm. , I had a six year old that early on, he just got us obsessed with our steak knives when he was three or four. Derry Prenkert (16:03): And we had to like, put those things up high cuz he just, he didn't understand the danger involving those knives. Right. Um, and, and so, uh, so with that, like, with that illustration in mind and looking at it that way, I, I look at this thing, a knife is really, for the most part neutral. Unless it's this crazy butcher knife that is, for the most part, a knife is neutral. It's what you're doing with it in your hands. So then it becomes about making sure to check your motives as well as prepare the person that has it in their hands to use it in the right way and to know how to use it in the right way. And, um, I think in that, like, especially if we're talking to ministers and I, I would put this across the board, in fact mm-hmm. , I would argue that senior pastors teaching pastors should be coaching, uh, 50, 60 year olds how to utilize their phones wisely, even more so than those that are just growing up with it, a native part of their life. Derry Prenkert (17:03): Hmm. Um, cuz I don't see a lot of students, uh, just making a fool of themselves on how they treat people on, on social media is, uh, as much as I see adults, uh, in what they're saying and everything else. So, so the, it's across the board. Like we have a responsibility to look at what does scripture say about, especially from a discipleship aspect of how we are to love our neighbors ourselves, and then how does it play out on this thing, you know? Mm-hmm. . So, so that would be, that would be a thing. So, um, so that's just, sorry, little rant there, but the knife and, and, and we, we have a responsibility to show them. Uh, I am a big fan Nick, of just intentionality in ministry overall. I think a lot of pastors, uh, I'm, I'm dedicating really, I feel like the second, second half of my life is I just want youth pastors and any pastors to be healthy in ministry. Derry Prenkert (17:53): And a big part of that is guarding your own heart. Um, another part is just thinking clearly and strategically in Christ's focus and inten and intentionality in what you're doing is a big part of that. Um, and so I would, I would argue that anybody that is in charge of a program, uh, a ministry, uh, any regular ministry gathering, there should be a side to say, Okay, what's our philosophy in how phones play into this? Mm-hmm. . And it can take up a lot of different forms. Yeah. One is what's our, so we're gonna be teaching this series, How's it showing up on their phones? Mm-hmm. , are we gonna do digital notes that they can look at while they're in the room? Are we going to do follow up stuff through social media that's gonna create interaction? Um, you've done some great stuff on the importance of don't just use your social media of as a, as a billboard that uses this interactive place. Derry Prenkert (18:47): You know, thinking through those things. Mm-hmm. , um, how are we going to actually handle the phones inside the space? What are, are, are, uh, uh, to what, what do we need to take into account if a middle school, I, I'm helping out in middle school right now, and I'm at a pretty conservative community mm-hmm. where I'd say it's six through eight grade, I would say no more than half the kids are, are actually walking in with smartphones. Now I know some would go, That's ridiculous. Well, that's my community. Sure. So I need to be thinking through, um, that I, I have to have a path for the non phone user. Right. But also I need to be thinking through for the phone user to begin to show them now. Like, Hey, if you're gonna follow Jesus, that plays out in this thing. Yeah. Derry Prenkert (19:28): So how do we do that? So what, what am I teaching? You know, when I get to the practical steps of my teaching, how am I intentionally saying, Hey, this is how this plays out on your phone. You know, that can be a part of it. Um, and then, and then I think, uh, there's just the overall, uh, idea of, I, I have kind of these categories I think through that I want to try to do inside the programming. And this is very youth ministry specific. I want to have times where, uh, where they have it and it's on, but they're encouraged to put it to, to the side mm-hmm. and not access it at all. Because, because we need to be able to do that in real life at times. Mm-hmm. , you know mm-hmm. . And so small groups, a lot of times, I don't know if you have this some, sometimes they'll do like the basket or, or, or things to say, Hey, it's here. Derry Prenkert (20:14): Or just even stack them in the middle of the room like, it's here, but we're not gonna use Oh yeah. Use that right now. Yeah. And, um, or it's just even a, Hey, let's put this in our pockets. Just hang tight with me for a little bit. Um, then there's then there's times where it's like off or not there at all. And we can talk about that one a little bit more. Probably it'd be a good one of, of, Hey, this is a no cell phone situation. Yeah. I think that's very debatable on how much we're often, but there's times where it's important to just, I mean, uh, solitude, simplicity, um, making sure that we're not controlled by things all apart of following Jesus. But then most importantly is we're gonna have times where we use this thing in a redemptive manner. Yeah. Um, we're gonna find ways. Derry Prenkert (20:57): So, so we are closing out and we've talked about, uh, the importance of praying for others and what ha you know, maybe we're doing a series on prayer and it's about praying for others. And, and what we say is, Okay, here's what we're gonna do right now. If you have a phone, I want you to pull it out and I'm just gonna ask the Lord to speak to us, to give you a name right now as somebody you could pray for. Hmm. And, and now I want you to pull out your phone and I want you to text them, not not, not text them that you are praying for them, actually text out what your prayer for them is. Hmm. Or when you walk out the room tonight, I want you to use that little voice memo thing. I did this this morning. Uh, I got a friend who just started first day in ministry today. I, I did a voice memo to him that was just solely my prayer and that was it. Like, here's my prayer for you today as you started on ministry. Yeah. That's cool. So, so finding ways to use it, redemptively. So again, I kind of went different, but use it redemptively. Find ways to put it to the side, find ways to turn it off or not have it there at all. And do all of that intentionally. Nick Clason (21:51): Yeah. I mean, a lot, a lot of what we say on here is that digital and physical, uh, both are important, but they're both categorically different. And so that's why I do think there is value in things that are strictly physical only. I think, like you said, we learned a lot of things about ourselves and people during covid when what was physical could not be completely replicated digitally. Yeah. Um, and vice versa. Right. And that's, that's the thing too, is like, I think the vice versa piece is like, there are some digital things that are digital only, like mm-hmm. me. Like you can do message recaps and, and things like that where you're calling back to what you did, um, throughout the week. Like on things like social media where people are not physically gathering in your room on a Tuesday morning, or they can be reading a u version plan on their own when they wake up on Thursday afternoon, you know, at lunch, whatever. Nick Clason (22:46): So mm-hmm. , that's, that's this whole idea of hybrid is it's, there is room for, for physical only. And there's also space, I think for digital. And that's part of the thing is we've, and I think a lot of churches are kind of running up into this, is they're, uh, Hey, you're, you're a youth pastor so you have to do all of it. Mm-hmm. , it's like these are two completely like different lanes. And so there's, I mean, there's staffing conversations and budget conversations I think like around all these things that are gonna be coming, coming down the pike at, at churches, so mm-hmm. , what would you say are times, um, maybe where you would, you would say, Hey, let's put phones away all together. Maybe talk about like camp situation Sure. Or, or retreats or whatever. Yeah. I'm sure that's probably one of the, the main ones that comes to people's minds. Derry Prenkert (23:32): Yeah. Yeah. Nick, you and I are a part of different youth ministry communities. Um, Facebook groups are a wonderful mess at times. . And one of the, one of the hot topics amongst many other things is when this gets asked of, Hey, what's your policy on cell phones? And it's interesting. It's like just hot takes start firing all over the place. Right. So, um, I was a part of one church for 23 years mm-hmm. , and I was a part of another church for 2.3 years. That's my little joke, uhha. But, um, , uh, in the one church that I was at for 23 years that I also grew up where technology was unfolded. And we, we had a hard and fast rule that really any trip that we did, we started with the idea of no cell phones would be allowed. And it was because we had a high emphasis on interactivity and, and, and it, cell phones weren't around when we set the rule. Derry Prenkert (24:24): It was, you can't bring your walkmans, your discmans your game boys because we're here to interact with each other. And the minute you look down on that thing, you're not there. So that just kind of lended itself over to cell phones and everything else. Mm-hmm. . And so, um, so any camp retreat, anything like that, we just, we put a pretty hard and fast rule with the one except perception being our senior retreat that we do with grads. We'd say, Hey, you can bring it. It was almost like this. Oh, you're old enough now. I, I don't know that I liked the motives in it, um, in, in it all. So, but then I went to, uh, another church where it was like, you can have them all the time mm-hmm. . Um, which, and the interesting thing I saw was effective ministry was taking place in both situations. Derry Prenkert (25:09): Um, but we hadn't really stopped and re strategized in my 23 year church to say, Hey, we're kind of, we kind of just stumbled into this, but these things are so much a part of his life. So we need to understand when we ask a kid to leave theirself at home, we're asking them to leave their most prized valuable mm-hmm. , um, possession mm-hmm. at home. Um, and then at the other church it was like, it's all there. But where we really said, Hey, how are we, are we, are we assessing how we're we're using these? And so I don't, I don't come from the mindset that says definitely no. Or definitely yes. As much as, again, back to that word, intentionality. Yeah. Um, have a plan. Yeah. Talk about it. So, so where we really landed, where at the church I was just at, was, um, if the event is going to be primarily focused on those that don't know Jesus coming into the situation, we're gonna be very hesitant to say he phones. Derry Prenkert (26:06): Yeah. Because they're not gonna get the idea of it. If the event is, is high, um, service based, um, intentional discipleship mm-hmm. and deepening, we're gonna stop and say, Hey, you know what, let's, this might be a time, Yeah. Let's evaluate this, where we're gonna maybe more lean toward this is a no-go, but then we're gonna say, here's why it's a no-go. If it's heavy discipleship, it's gonna say, this is gonna be a significant time. Where the primary things we're gonna do is we're gonna focus in on your connection with God and your connection with others, and we're gonna challenge you to find ways to do that outside of the technical technological world. Can you do that inside the technological world? Absolutely. But we see the value of a break. Um, and so that's kind of where we landed. Uh, but I mean the, the, I'm back, I'm back around the church that I was at for 23 years, though a lot of the rules are still in place that if it's a trip or retreat, it's no go. The interesting thing is, um, parents hated a whole lot more than students did. Nick Clason (27:03): Yeah. Now they were the one were noticing that too. Yep. Derry Prenkert (27:05): Yeah. If you, I would argue you wanna try to institute a no cell phone rule and you don't have it, it's gonna be really hard and it may not be worth the fight and it won't be because the kids, it's gonna be the parents. Parents are be, How do I get a hold of Johnny? Yeah. And, you know, in whatever case. Um, but, but when we take seniors on the retreat, when we were taking them, you know, and we'd allow to have phones, it just naturally had come up in conversations. They would go, Wait, are you gonna start allowing this for other kids on your, on, on campus? Like, we didn't have. And and I'm like, and, and I'd get into the conversation with 'em like, Oh, are you ticked because you had to suffer through not having 'em. Yeah. And you're, and you wanna make sure they get punished like you did. Derry Prenkert (27:42): And the seniors would be like, No, no. Like, I'd love that. We didn't have 'em. Yeah. I, I I actually would come back from camp. So grateful that you really pushed that on us for that time. Mm-hmm. . Now, is that right or wrong? No, I, I like, does that mean that you absolutely shouldn't do it? No, but it was just, it's an interesting aspect to it all. So again, long, long talking to just say it's about intentionality, it's about thinking through why would we want to do this? Mm-hmm. and then, and then making sure to communicate to those that are participating. And if it's in youth ministry, the parents of saying here's why. Yeah. Um, and then being ready for a fight, if you wanna say No phones. Cause it's, it's a challenge. Nick Clason (28:20): Yeah. That, No, that's really good. And again, right, like there's things that only physical can accomplish and there's things that only digital can accomplish. And I think an experience like a camp or whatever, there is a lot of connection that needs to take place. And most students, and you know, back to what you said earlier, people in church like don't know how to live in a world where it's just that where their phone isn't constantly dinging or lighting up or vying for their attention. And so I, I too have noticed in those types of environments where students, people are like grateful and thankful or say, man, like I'm, I haven't even like, wanted my phone. They're kinda surprised by it. You know, that that's, that's kind of the case. So Yeah. It's so Derry Prenkert (29:05): Interesting. Can I give two practical, just real practical tips if you choose to do no phones, especially if you're a youth pastor. Yeah, yeah. Um, one is bring in a, at at least one, maybe multiple people who's their sole job is to capture photos and videos of the experience mm-hmm. . And at the beginning of the experience, make sure that the students know who that person is, because one of the things you're asking them to sacrifice is Nick Clason (29:28): Capturing, capturing Derry Prenkert (29:30): The memories Nick Clason (29:30): Of Derry Prenkert (29:31): It all. And that's bigger than ever, right? Yeah. Because they can do that. And so making sure that that's there, and then making all those photos and videos available as soon as you possibly can. Um, and I, I noticed that, um, the, a camp I was at this summer there, the photographer was actually uploading those, um, to their social media platform, like with a link while the camp was there, even though the kids didn't have phones, so that as soon as they got home within like one hour, the kids were like posting their, you know, their real, their reels that recaps, like that's good. Building up all the stuff on the, That's really good. So I think that's a big one. And then two is think through your strategic feedback loop to parents. The parent freakout is, I don't, I, how do I know? Well mm-hmm. Derry Prenkert (30:14): , if you have a, a way of saying, Hey, here's, here's where you can go, um, whether it's a Facebook page or group, or if it's your Instagram, or if it's even like a, a remind, uh, setup or whatever, texting, like, here's where it's at. We found that Facebook lives where you could at a camp mm-hmm. , um, actually doing a, Hey, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go live at this time. I'm actually gonna give you a little glimpse into the session just for a short bit so you can just see what's going on and then come back and update you. And the beauty of a Facebook Live, every parent is still on Facebook, uh, for the most part. So they, they, they're there and so they can jump on live and then you can let it sit there. So, um, but those two things will, will go a long way in helping the resistance you might get. Um, when it comes to the no phone Nick Clason (31:00): Rule. Yeah. We, we, we do, we've done like a photographer and my, my favorite, and it always depends on like if the church or I have the budget to pull this off, but like get a videographer as well, or the same person, um, and have them do a daily, like, recap video. Those are great for opening your like sessions, but they're also amazing to throw up on YouTube and then text a link out. And so, you know, parents who, uh, send their kids without phone or whatever, they feel this like sense of relief if like they see their kid. Absolutely. Then the downside is one, one time I had to, uh, remove a clip because a kid was like picking his nose and the mom like, wanted it out. Yeah. Um, and then another time ano a mom was like, I haven't seen my kid in any of the recap bees. Yeah. And I'm trying not to freak out, but like, are they having fun? Like, are they making friends? Like, and I get it, like as a, as a dad myself, you know, now, like I would also want to try and like lay eyes on my kids. So Derry Prenkert (32:01): Totally same. Totally same. Actually Gabe, the pastor at the church that I'm serving with now, he did a meal time at camp and he just said, Okay, who needs to see their kid Facebook Live, , who needs to see their kid? And he just went around and said, funny. And he put up the phone, he said, Tell your mom you're okay. And, and it was like one of the most viewed Yeah. There are a lot of people there, so Yeah. And that is legit. And it's, you gotta be ready for it for that whole world. And, um, it is, that is evidence again, of the different world. And, and as a parent of a high schooler and a middle schooler, I wasn't at the high school camp. I was at the middle school camp. I was watching for my kid. Yeah. Derry Prenkert (32:38): That I didn't quite quite realize. So. Nick Clason (32:40): All right. Last, last thing. Um, how can we, as pastors, people in ministry, what are ways there that you see that we can optimize technology, um, now Cause like the overall mission, right? Of the church mm-hmm. to make disciples. And Paul used, you know, the thing available to him writing letters at the time to reach churches that he was not near. So what are some ways, just maybe a couple ideas off the top of your head that you have seen effective or ideas that maybe you haven't seen totally fleshed out, but are ruminating inside. Like Yeah. Where we can use what is available to us in technology. I mean, even the fact that I'm sitting in Texas here in northern Indiana and we're having this conversation and we're seeing each other, like, that's an advantage that wasn't available to us pre 2007. Right. And so, uh, what are some of those things maybe that you have seen or have thought about that we can use to our advantage to help kids take steps closer to Jesus? Derry Prenkert (33:40): Yeah. Let me throw you a little bit of a curve on where I might go with this to start only, um, in that I've been a part of large to very large churches mm-hmm. , and you've been a part of larger churches where there's a budget that's available and mass communication through technology. And so our minds might immediately go to Yeah. Podcasts and video streams mm-hmm. and, uh, you know, Instagram and getting somehow in with you version so you can build up a Bible reading plan. And I Yes. Yeah. Nick Clason (34:10): But I would it if you can Derry Prenkert (34:11): Yeah. I would say pastors and ministers to remember to that this is an incredible one to one ministry tool still mm-hmm. . And so, um, and, and this has gotten especially big to me as I've shifted over into this world now where my primary job that I says God's called me to is just to pastor pastors, especially those that are youth pastors. Well, they're all over the nation. Yeah. And so, um, last night, Sunday night for me, I'm recognizing I was just like, Lord, who are the people right now that might just kind of be in that spot that a word of encouragement or a check-in could go a long way? And there were, there were four texts that were sent out to individuals going, Hey, you're on my mind. How did today go? Or what's going on in your mind? Woke up this morning and like I already told you about, there was one guy that is first day he shifted from the education world to the church world. Derry Prenkert (35:03): Hmm. And so, um, so I, I would just start by saying yes, I mean, as we think about the massive ways to do it, let's not forget that pastoring at its best that's good is a one to one, a one to three relationship mm-hmm. . And so, uh, connecting with our parishioners are people that we're discipling, whoever they might be, uh, through the phone and doing it healthily and thinking through safeguards and all those things are really important, especially for youth pastors. Um, which probably is a whole other episode to talk through at some point. . Yeah. But, um, but to understand like, this is a ministry tool at its core. And so a a properly placed text, phone call, FaceTime, um, like, or comment on a, um, on a, on a post, uh, can is, is ministry, like, is deep ministry and meaningful ministry at times. Derry Prenkert (35:53): Mm-hmm. . Um, That's great. It was interesting Nick, uh, my former youth pastor, uh, my dad died 10, uh, 13 years ago now, and my former youth minister is no longer in youth ministry. And, but it was an incredible influence on my life. Mm-hmm. . And it was about, uh, it was, it was right around eight years after my dad had died, I posted just a memory of him and below in the comment section, my old youth pastor got on and he, all he wrote was, I'm so proud of you Derry. And I read that and I lost it. And, and I talked to him and, and what happened in that moment was like, I realized, uh, can, like, thank you. I miss I miss having my dad, and I'm not, I don't have a dad that can physically say to me, I'm proud of you anymore. Derry Prenkert (36:39): And I'm, I'm like a 36 year old man, like blubbering over my youth pastor telling me he's proud of me. But it's because he, he, in that moment, he ministered to me through a simple comment on a Facebook group mm-hmm. that also helped me work through some grieving that I was at. I hadn't really just walked through and said, God, I'm kind of ticked, I'm kind of ticked right now because I've lost, like, why did this happen? And, and it helped me kind of break through to a new level. And so, so anyway, like just, I, I, that's the one thing I would just say is as we think through the strategic and the greater stuff, let's not forget this is a incredible tool for the most effective ministry that is relational and personal in nature. That's good. That's good. Um, um, I would say otherwise though too is, um, I have a good friend, John McAllen, Johnny Mack, he did this thing, he started, it was called Echo Ministry. Derry Prenkert (37:25): And the idea was how do you take and create echos of what's happening on the, on the weekend? How do you have the message echo through the rest of the week? And our technology, our cell phones are such a primary tool to make that happen. You said it so well, there are things that we can do now because we have these, um, where it can show up in the moment, in, in different ways, uh, whether it's, uh, uh, a thinking through, uh, devotional journey, like I said, through you version. Mm-hmm. , uh, uh, the youth group that I just was at for the last couple of years, they're doing a thing called sale up Moments every week. They have just one moment that, that where they, they use on social media where they say, Okay, you're scrolling through, but stop, exhale, um, and listen to God allow 'em to speak to you. Derry Prenkert (38:16): You know? And there's a whole acronym to it. I can't remember what the H was good. Yeah. I like that. You know, have a burger, I think was the last, no, I can't remember what the H was, but, um, they, they, they walked through it and, and so using that was, um, was, was a way to do it. So I, I think it's that matter of how can we echo it mm-hmm. . And there's a lot, you know, podcasts can be a part of it. Uh, I started something called Digging Deeper with our main services when I was, uh, at my own church. And, and what we did was every Wednesday I would sit down with whoever was preaching mm-hmm. . And if I, I, I was a part of the teaching time. If I was preaching, somebody else would come in and the first thing we'd say, Hey, hey, what hit the cutting room floor? Derry Prenkert (38:53): What were you not able to get to this weekend that you wish you could have? And people just love that aspect, but then we would pick it part a little bit more mm-hmm. . And so, and it, it's not hard. It's a, you know, get, get a little basic, um, Yeah. Recording set up and you can get it set up pretty easy. Um, and so there's just so many ways, but I would just start with the, like, how can we echo into the week, what happened on the weekend Yep. And use it on a digital format. Nick Clason (39:16): Yeah. No, that's good. I, I also personally think that we don't know yet like, the answer to some of these questions. Yeah. Like, I still think that there's, uh, things yet to be discovered, you know, in front of us. And so I think, uh, if there's any sort of like, challenge for anyone listening, I would just say like, just do something. Um, and you may stumble upon something great. You may find some stuff that's terrible and you need to cut it out. Um, but if you're, if you're always looking that direction, uh, you'll, you'll stumble upon something good that you maybe don't even know, or you maybe didn't, you know, you maybe weren't even able to see it right now when you started it because of a limited technology or budget or whatever. And so just be looking for ways. Cuz like I said, it's less, I think, I personally think it's easy to make digital about being flashy, um, or whatever, looking good to parents or other youth pastors or other people in ministry, whatever. Nick Clason (40:15): But I think it's far less about that for me at least, and it's more about how effective can I be in spreading the message of Jesus with all the tools that he's given to me. Yeah. Like, I'm, I'm alive in 2022 with access to podcast microphones and phones that can take incredible videos and pictures, like mm-hmm. , how am I going to use steward those things to reach the most amount of people, you know, that have an audience to reach. So I think that's, that would be my challenge to whoever's listening is think what Dare said, think through all the things that, with intentionality, Um, and then just be open, you know, to, to utilizing some stuff. Derry Prenkert (40:52): So yeah. You're, you're so right on. We don't have it all figured out. Probably one of my greatest pet peeves in life are, uh, those that are convinced they have it all figured out. Um, Yeah. and I, I, I can do that at times. And usually when I'm at that point and I'm like, Oh yeah, I know how to do this. Mm-hmm. , that's the moment when I will fall flat on my face. And so, so there's a ton to be learned. There's a ton to be determined I love, or Nick Clason (41:14): That's when a new iPhone comes out, Right. And you're like, Oh, this changed everything. Or Covid hit and this changed everything. So yes. Totally. Good. Yes. I think we're living through that. Well, hey man. Um, anything else off top of your head? You don't have to, but I just wanna make sure you said everything you wanted to say. Didn't leave anything unsaid. Derry Prenkert (41:30): I think the only thing I would maybe end with is in that same vein is, um, it's everywhere. It's so much. Uh, also don't be afraid to not feel like you have to do everything, you know? Um, uh, especially to the minister that's trying to think through how to do effectively. There is a, there is a moment where less is more because your soul needs to rest, you know? Mm-hmm. , if you're finding yourself trying to, uh, late at night when you should be being around your family, invest your family or on your day off going, this is the time while Ill dive into all this digital stuff. Eh, you know what, maybe, maybe that's, uh, not worth it. No, not, maybe it definitely is not worth it. Definitely not worth, There's just, that's the part of like this thing, there's just so much out there. Mm-hmm. don't, I, I I guess it's like that idea of don't gain the digital world at the cost of your soul. Yeah. good is, is, is a big thing. And I just, I say that out of a season where I'm just seeing so many of us burn out. Um, and we're burning out in a lot of different ways, but one is because we're just constantly on and we don't hit the off switch. That's Nick Clason (42:34): Good. That's good. Love it, man. Well, hey, thanks again. Uh, you referenced a couple things in here. I'll toss 'em in show notes, like your resource on D ym so that all tens of our listeners can go get it. There you go. Um, anyway, thanks for hanging out man. And uh, absolutely. We'll chat again. Chat again. Yeah. Awesome. Nick Clason (42:52): Well, wasn't that great, Uh, super thoughtful, super helpful. Um, I hope that you found this interesting and helpful as well. Hey, um, we are online on Twitter at Hybrid Ministry. Would love to have you come hang out, follow us over there. Um, we're still growing, not super active yet, but, uh, we're well on our way. And also everything you need, show notes, links, transcripts, all kinds of stuff. You can find out hybrid ministry.xyz along with a now growing bank of archive and older episodes. So if you're just not stumbling upon us, we'd love to have you go back and check it out. Uh, you can do all of that at hybridministry.xyz (http://www.hybridministry.xyz) Ze. Again, thanks for being with us today and we'll chat next time. Technology, Digital Ministry, Gen Z, Pastors, Students, Ministry, Youth Ministry, Online Church, Digital Ministry, Millennials SUMMARY
In this episode, Nick sits down with his friend, Derry Prenkert, a 20+ year youth ministry veteran. Derry shares about the monumental shift of the invention of the smart phone. How things were before, and how things have shifted, but most importantly, how we utilize this technology for our benefit and gain to reach more students for the mission of Jesus.

Follow us on Twitter http://www.twitter.com/hybridministry
Find all the resources you need from the podcast http://www.hybridministry.xyz
Follow Derry online:
-TWITTER: https://twitter.com/derryprenkert
-INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/derryprenkert/
-PODCAST: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/my-third-decade-in-youth-ministry/id1338273697

SHOWNOTES
Steve Job's introduction of the iPhone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7qPAY9JqE4
Derry's Parenting Resource: https://www.downloadyouthministry.com/p/adolescence%2C-technology-and-parenting/training-3996.html
Johnny Mac's Stuff: https://yourhouseblend.com/jonnysblend

TIMECODES
00:00-03:30 Intro
03:30-10:53 The impact of the invention of the iPhone
10:53-14:30 What happened in ministry after the invention of the iPhone
14:30-23:20 How have you responded since then?
23:20-32:44 When do you ask phones to be put away?
32:44-41:23 How can we utilize technology now to further and advance God's mission?
41:23-43:38 Outro

TRANSCRIPT
Nick Clason (00:00):
What is up everybody? Welcome to another episode of the Hybrid Ministry podcast. Excited to be with you today. Uh, today we have our very first, uh, guest interview, uh, friend of mine Derry Pinker. He's located in, um, Amish town, Nape Indiana. Um, right now, uh, he worked at that church for over 20 years, and then he was at another church for just a couple years, super large church in, uh, Kentucky. So, um, excited to bring you Derry's conversation. Uh, he mentions a couple of different links. He talks about Steve Jobs' keynote, a resource that he has on download youth ministry and echo ministry. I'm gonna include all of those in the show notes, but without any further ado, let's just hop in so you can get to know Derry.

Nick Clason (00:51):
All right, well, what's up Derry? Good to have you on the podcast. Welcome, man.

Derry Prenkert (00:56):
Yeah, it's so good to be with you, Nick. Thanks for having me on.

Nick Clason (00:58):
Yeah. So as we were talking a little bit before I hit record here, you have a podcast or did, or what would you define the, the existence of your podcast? Right Now?

Derry Prenkert (01:11):
The status of my third decade. It is, it has been on the longest hiatus ever. Um, yeah. And it is coming back. Um, it's tied to this whole world of the shift that I've, I've made from being in a local church to now serving pastors in the local church. Yeah. And I'm in a season of getting all the groundwork laid for that. I, uh, have every intention, every intention by, uh, early 2023 that it's gonna launch back out. And there are some, there are actually some things already recorded for it, so, so it hasn't completely gone away. There, there is, there is a future to it.

Nick Clason (01:46):
That's good. Cuz it's still in my podcast catcher, so I'm not unsubscribing from, I just wanna let you know that it's still there. So, um, but back when I mowed the lawn when I worked two churches ago, I think I heard you, um, talk about like, uh, this really big shift in culture and you noticed that it was, uh, have to do with when the iPhone came into existence. Mm-hmm. , just give us a little bit, like give us your story, how long you've been, you know, doing youth ministry, um, and how you have a beneficial perspective of before technology and phones are a part of what we have to navigate and deal with. And then post, and then maybe we can just kind of chat about how we navigate that as, you know, people who are, uh, ministering to people, students, um, who are very much entrenched in this technology, like Lane and world.

Derry Prenkert (02:42):
Yeah, absolutely. So, um, my story is somebody that started in youth ministry at 19 years old. I was just about to turn 20 and I started an internship and that was back in 1996. Mm-hmm. . Yeah, I'm old. Um, and so graduated from high school in 95, start in, in ministry in 96. And so I get 11 years of ministry. Um, and in those 11 years, uh, you know, cell phones, car phones were around when I started . Yeah. And cell phones were around when I finished college in 1999. But they were, they roamed the minute you got outside of about 10 miles from your house and you only use them in emergencies. And then, and then it moved into, you know, 2004, 2005, the razor flip. Flum was the coolest thing in the world is texting, kind of entered the picture mm-hmm. . Um, and then, you know, so I, but, but really it was 2007 when Steve Jobs holds up this, this phone.

Derry Prenkert (03:36):
And it's actually interesting to go back and watch, I don't know if you've ever watched that keynote when he does it. No, I should, but, but he, he, he introduces it and is pretty prophetic, like the level of what he's talking about where technology is heading. Cause he said this is gonna revolutionize and change. And he says, he says, What would happen if we were to introduce a computer operating system, a phone and a iPod all in one thing. Yeah. And that's, that's the heartbeat of what they did. Um, and actually I, I do a technology thing with parents, uh, adolescents, technology and parenting. Mm-hmm. , uh, what I do is, I'll actually, it's, it's a fun little exercise cuz if you think about, you got, most parents of teenagers right now are, are there children of the eighties if they're really, if they've got younger, like their youngest kids are teenagers now, nineties or maybe early two thousands mm-hmm. . And so what I do is I'll put up on the screen different, like, what was the technology of our time. And so like, you know, in the eighties you got like VCRs and corded phones and, and a Walkman or a giant computer that has a green screen maybe.

Nick Clason (04:41):
Yeah. I found the VCR yesterday in our building, so that was cool,

Derry Prenkert (04:46):
Dude. And, and did you try playing anything? Cause it probably just ate the tape, right?

Nick Clason (04:49):
Yeah, no, I was like, I don't, I don't even know if we would ever need this, but, Right. Yeah. Here it

Derry Prenkert (04:53):
Is. Yeah. Yeah. It's, see the, in the eighties in technology, like everything got fixed by blowing on it. Um, so like the VHS tape wasn't working. You blew on it. The, the Nintendo cartridge. Yep. You blew in that and then blew in the box. Mm-hmm. . So that was, you know, eighties in the nineties, you have cell phones come, you got the Discman mm-hmm. that I remember. I would, as the nineties I would run or exercise with a discman, but I had to be careful not to run too hard because the CD would skip Yeah.

Nick Clason (05:17):
As I skipping. I

Derry Prenkert (05:18):
Remember that. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and then, you know, early two thousands social media in MySpace shows up. Yep. But, you know, garins show up, Uhhuh, um, digital cameras are a big deal in another 2000 flat screen TVs. Right. So we walk through these different, different moments and I say in 2007, Steve Jobs holds up this, this little device. And everything I just said was around in those different decades now lives inside this single device. Mm. Interesting. It is your video games. It is your music, you know, it's your disc man, it's your VCR or your DVD player. It is your

Nick Clason (05:53):
Computer, your calendar. Yeah.

Derry Prenkert (05:55):
Yeah. It's everything. It's all there. And, and so for parents, it's just saying like, recognize how significant this shift is. And so for those of us in ministry, if we are in that age, it's important to recognize that for those of us that are, I I, a lot of youth pastors are maybe a little, um, younger than the parents that they have. Right. Remember, like, these are the parents you're working with that, that this shift has happened. It might be a little more native to you as a youth pastor if you're in your, your mid to early twenties mm-hmm. . But it's foreign. It's, it's, it's so different and, and it's, it's changed so much. Um, the two things to kind of say, when I look at youth culture, cuz that's where I spent a lot of my time Yeah. That I would say are huge, is, uh, one youth group in church.

Derry Prenkert (06:40):
I was at a church that ha drew from multiple high schools. And pre 2007, we were the place to go to connect with friends. Hmm. Um, now we saw God move and we were, we were, we were unapologetic that that wasn't the, that wasn't the primary point. The primary point was to encounter a relationship with Jesus, to understand your call, to be a part of this kingdom work. But the appeal for my kids, I'm gonna drop names that nobody knows from Wawa c high school at Northwood High School. Mm-hmm. and Goshan High School. Someone knows each other. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Um, uh, they can meet weekly at our place. Right. Uh, now with the institution of not only, you know, the, just the move of the cell phone with texting, but then once the iPhone came in, it wasn't just you, you could, you didn't have to go there to meet a place you could actually interact face to face, you know, through FaceTime, through, through, um, whatever it might be.

Derry Prenkert (07:33):
Google Meet all do different stuff. You could, you could do that over the phone. So it became less important. The other thing that's super intriguing is, I don't know about Eich, but the greatest day of my life, uh, as a teenager was when I turned 16 in one month in my town, because that was the day I could get my driver's license. Yeah. And by getting my driver's license, that meant a whole new, uh, level of freedom, empowerment, and ownership. Like that driver's license was my ticket to independence. Yeah. I've noticed, um, a major change. I can't believe how many kids I interact with that are like 16, 17 and, you know, we're doing an event. They're like, Hey, can I get a ride? I'm like, You don't have your license yet. Yeah. No. And, and, and, and I I don't have like the scientific proof to this, just the conversation.

Derry Prenkert (08:25):
Sure. It's, they're like, Why would I, why would I need it? Well, yeah, the big shift came like that that license was my way to get to my friends. Mm-hmm. and my community. Now, this, this thing that we can hold in our hands is our ticket to interact. And so, so like one of the, I guess like the big implication that I would throw out that is huge is it it has radically transformed our connectivity mm-hmm. , um, even with the people right next to us. Yeah. Um, so I mean, so many other thoughts, but there's, those are just a couple things like that we recognize. Another way I say it is like we basically now are carrying around super computers in our pockets. Yeah. That, uh, it's, they are that we're, we have, we have excessive, uh, access to information. We are, we are constantly connected. Um, and it's like invasive, you know, it's not like it's, when's the last time I I I, you can answer this or the people are listening, When's the last time you actually turned off powered down your phone

Nick Clason (09:26):
On your own? Well, mine's new, so never

Derry Prenkert (09:29):
Yeah. .

Nick Clason (09:30):
Right,

Derry Prenkert (09:30):
Right. And it's, it's like impossible to, like, they've made it so it's hard to do. And so it's always there. Now, now I might sound like I'm interesting. Yeah. I'm negative on this. I do mourn more in some things because I'm old and I'm an old guy sitting saying, Get off my lawn kids. You know, a little bit. But, um, but those are some of the things that I think are big that have changed. And so, so just the way we go about ministry has to change with it. It is in my mind, we measure time on before and after like, events that come to mind in youth ministry world, most youth pastors that were around before Columbine mm-hmm. and after Columbine, they know it changed the way you had to handle liabilities and safety

Nick Clason (10:10):
Measures. Yeah.

Derry Prenkert (10:11):
Mm-hmm. pre nine 11. Post nine 11 as a, as a culture, our life shifted on how we view, uh, things pre covid, post covid. We're still learning that all. Yeah. I still could make the argument pre iPhone and post iPhone, pre smartphone and post iPhone could be, could be the most significant watershed cultural moment that we've experienced in the LA since World War ii. Yeah.

Nick Clason (10:35):
I don't, one of, one of like, I, one of the guys I listen to a lot, his name, you know, Brady Shear mm-hmm. , he talks about this being the biggest communication shift that we've seen in 500 years. So he's referencing that being the printing press. Yeah. And now with all this digital stuff. So that's a great call. Let's go like, let's go there a little bit. You said, um, pre iPhone people would gather from multiple high schools to your church. Did you notice that stopping, um, after, did you notice attendance shifting or did you just notice that still happens but there's, there's now just an iPhone in everyone's pocket and that's changing how they're interacting. But things are still, still sort of the same. Like, what would you say was, uh, like a, an actual effect, right? Yeah. Of that attendance thing you're talking about.

Derry Prenkert (11:25):
This is not scientific at all. It's very guttural and it's nature. Uh, and it's my experience, I would say it didn't, for some it stopped. But I would say the bigger thing is it got more sporadic. In fact, you we're just talking, I don't know, it would be fascinating. You know, they talk about how people are coming to church less often Right. Than they used to. That a regular attendant is, attender is considered once every month or once every three weeks. Right? Yep. I wonder how that correlates to the institution of like the, the actual cell phone and smartphone because Yeah, because that was the thing. Like pre pre smartphone, um, even kids from the same school, there was the chance to just, you know, we're not just going through in passing periods. We're gonna have a small group time. We're gonna have a pre hangout post hangout mm-hmm.

Derry Prenkert (12:09):
once a week. This is my guaranteed time. I'm gonna get time with my friends. Yeah. Um, and so it got more sporadic. Yeah. Uh, definitely. And, and that could be in part because they could have the community outside of the youth group. Um, but it still, that's why I would, I would still be a firm believer. There is a limitation to what you can accomplish over digital. I think anybody that truly had to walk through the PA pandemic and live completely on a screen would a hundred percent agree with me. You can't replace, um, interpersonal in person reaction Totally. With digital. But you can find more connection or, or you can find connection in the gaps through that. And so I think it got more, um, more sporadic, uh, in nature. And yes, they are showing up with them. And I mean, man, whew, how many conversations do I have?

Derry Prenkert (12:58):
I had with parents and leaders on, We gotta, we gotta, we gotta like force kids to turn these off or tell 'em they can't have 'em at all. And then, and then the issue of parents talking about what age do I give my kid a phone? When do I not? Because not only are they carrying it around, I mean, it's just, it's just there. And so the amount of attention that was going down to it when they were around that, that I'd say kinda really hit in the two, like 2014 15 phrase when everybody got one. Mm-hmm. , uh, everybody had one.

Nick Clason (13:28):
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like, even my kids in first grade and his teacher sended stuff on his like e backpack and then his like e folder and he has like iPad time. Like, so my sort of thing is, while you may lament the loss of some of what was prefo and pre-technology, um, it's not going anywhere. And so, you know, cuz I, I'm with you sometimes I have leaders who are like, We just need to get rid of the phones, take 'em away from the kids. Like make sure that they, you know, only use paper bibles and that, you know, it's, it's wrong to read God's word on a screen type of thing. And that's, that's a high preference maybe mm-hmm. . And there may be some validity to some of those things, but the fact of the matter is like, why, You know, my argument is why are we discouraging a kid from reading the Bible if it's super accessible to them and in their pocket 24 hours a day?

Nick Clason (14:25):
Um, you know, so, So what have you noticed or what are some of the things that you've done realizing like, we can't, we can't get ourselves away from these. They are everywhere. They're on all the time. They are our everything. Our day planner, our calendar and our social life in a lot of ways. You know, like what are some of the things that you've, you've tried to embrace as a youth pastor, um, to maybe leverage them or lean into them and then maybe what are some of the times that you've discouraged use of them? Because you're like the, the, you know, the re the result of what's gonna happen here physically is gonna be greater than what is happening if you're on your

Derry Prenkert (15:02):
Phone. Yeah. It's great. Um, in the thing I do with parents, which total shameless plug, it's actually on D ym, you get it, download Youth Mystery

Nick Clason (15:12):
And then you have an extra $4 in your pocket. Yeah, yeah,

Derry Prenkert (15:15):
Yeah. From that roof. Yeah. It's called Adolescents Parenting and Technology. I use an illustration. I, and I, it's an illustration that, that hit me is our phones are a knife, um, and a knife, uh, can serve many purposes. Uh, a knife is, can be used to spread butter. It can be used to whittle wood to make, uh, amazing things. It can be, it can be, uh, used to, you know, cut through things that are hard to cut through. It also can be used to kill people. Um, it's really about what is happening with the person that has it in their hands. And a part of that is what's their intentions as well as what's their awareness of a knife. You know, I've got, you've got younger kids. Mm-hmm. , I had a six year old that early on, he just got us obsessed with our steak knives when he was three or four.

Derry Prenkert (16:03):
And we had to like, put those things up high cuz he just, he didn't understand the danger involving those knives. Right. Um, and, and so, uh, so with that, like, with that illustration in mind and looking at it that way, I, I look at this thing, a knife is really, for the most part neutral. Unless it's this crazy butcher knife that is, for the most part, a knife is neutral. It's what you're doing with it in your hands. So then it becomes about making sure to check your motives as well as prepare the person that has it in their hands to use it in the right way and to know how to use it in the right way. And, um, I think in that, like, especially if we're talking to ministers and I, I would put this across the board, in fact mm-hmm. , I would argue that senior pastors teaching pastors should be coaching, uh, 50, 60 year olds how to utilize their phones wisely, even more so than those that are just growing up with it, a native part of their life.

Derry Prenkert (17:03):
Hmm. Um, cuz I don't see a lot of students, uh, just making a fool of themselves on how they treat people on, on social media is, uh, as much as I see adults, uh, in what they're saying and everything else. So, so the, it's across the board. Like we have a responsibility to look at what does scripture say about, especially from a discipleship aspect of how we are to love our neighbors ourselves, and then how does it play out on this thing, you know? Mm-hmm. . So, so that would be, that would be a thing. So, um, so that's just, sorry, little rant there, but the knife and, and, and we, we have a responsibility to show them. Uh, I am a big fan Nick, of just intentionality in ministry overall. I think a lot of pastors, uh, I'm, I'm dedicating really, I feel like the second, second half of my life is I just want youth pastors and any pastors to be healthy in ministry.

Derry Prenkert (17:53):
And a big part of that is guarding your own heart. Um, another part is just thinking clearly and strategically in Christ's focus and inten and intentionality in what you're doing is a big part of that. Um, and so I would, I would argue that anybody that is in charge of a program, uh, a ministry, uh, any regular ministry gathering, there should be a side to say, Okay, what's our philosophy in how phones play into this? Mm-hmm. . And it can take up a lot of different forms. Yeah. One is what's our, so we're gonna be teaching this series, How's it showing up on their phones? Mm-hmm. , are we gonna do digital notes that they can look at while they're in the room? Are we going to do follow up stuff through social media that's gonna create interaction? Um, you've done some great stuff on the importance of don't just use your social media of as a, as a billboard that uses this interactive place.

Derry Prenkert (18:47):
You know, thinking through those things. Mm-hmm. , um, how are we going to actually handle the phones inside the space? What are, are, are, uh, uh, to what, what do we need to take into account if a middle school, I, I'm helping out in middle school right now, and I'm at a pretty conservative community mm-hmm. where I'd say it's six through eight grade, I would say no more than half the kids are, are actually walking in with smartphones. Now I know some would go, That's ridiculous. Well, that's my community. Sure. So I need to be thinking through, um, that I, I have to have a path for the non phone user. Right. But also I need to be thinking through for the phone user to begin to show them now. Like, Hey, if you're gonna follow Jesus, that plays out in this thing. Yeah.

Derry Prenkert (19:28):
So how do we do that? So what, what am I teaching? You know, when I get to the practical steps of my teaching, how am I intentionally saying, Hey, this is how this plays out on your phone. You know, that can be a part of it. Um, and then, and then I think, uh, there's just the overall, uh, idea of, I, I have kind of these categories I think through that I want to try to do inside the programming. And this is very youth ministry specific. I want to have times where, uh, where they have it and it's on, but they're encouraged to put it to, to the side mm-hmm. and not access it at all. Because, because we need to be able to do that in real life at times. Mm-hmm. , you know mm-hmm. . And so small groups, a lot of times, I don't know if you have this some, sometimes they'll do like the basket or, or, or things to say, Hey, it's here.

Derry Prenkert (20:14):
Or just even stack them in the middle of the room like, it's here, but we're not gonna use Oh yeah. Use that right now. Yeah. And, um, or it's just even a, Hey, let's put this in our pockets. Just hang tight with me for a little bit. Um, then there's then there's times where it's like off or not there at all. And we can talk about that one a little bit more. Probably it'd be a good one of, of, Hey, this is a no cell phone situation. Yeah. I think that's very debatable on how much we're often, but there's times where it's important to just, I mean, uh, solitude, simplicity, um, making sure that we're not controlled by things all apart of following Jesus. But then most importantly is we're gonna have times where we use this thing in a redemptive manner. Yeah. Um, we're gonna find ways.

Derry Prenkert (20:57):
So, so we are closing out and we've talked about, uh, the importance of praying for others and what ha you know, maybe we're doing a series on prayer and it's about praying for others. And, and what we say is, Okay, here's what we're gonna do right now. If you have a phone, I want you to pull it out and I'm just gonna ask the Lord to speak to us, to give you a name right now as somebody you could pray for. Hmm. And, and now I want you to pull out your phone and I want you to text them, not not, not text them that you are praying for them, actually text out what your prayer for them is. Hmm. Or when you walk out the room tonight, I want you to use that little voice memo thing. I did this this morning. Uh, I got a friend who just started first day in ministry today. I, I did a voice memo to him that was just solely my prayer and that was it. Like, here's my prayer for you today as you started on ministry. Yeah. That's cool. So, so finding ways to use it, redemptively. So again, I kind of went different, but use it redemptively. Find ways to put it to the side, find ways to turn it off or not have it there at all. And do all of that intentionally.

Nick Clason (21:51):
Yeah. I mean, a lot, a lot of what we say on here is that digital and physical, uh, both are important, but they're both categorically different. And so that's why I do think there is value in things that are strictly physical only. I think, like you said, we learned a lot of things about ourselves and people during covid when what was physical could not be completely replicated digitally. Yeah. Um, and vice versa. Right. And that's, that's the thing too, is like, I think the vice versa piece is like, there are some digital things that are digital only, like mm-hmm. me. Like you can do message recaps and, and things like that where you're calling back to what you did, um, throughout the week. Like on things like social media where people are not physically gathering in your room on a Tuesday morning, or they can be reading a u version plan on their own when they wake up on Thursday afternoon, you know, at lunch, whatever.

Nick Clason (22:46):
So mm-hmm. , that's, that's this whole idea of hybrid is it's, there is room for, for physical only. And there's also space, I think for digital. And that's part of the thing is we've, and I think a lot of churches are kind of running up into this, is they're, uh, Hey, you're, you're a youth pastor so you have to do all of it. Mm-hmm. , it's like these are two completely like different lanes. And so there's, I mean, there's staffing conversations and budget conversations I think like around all these things that are gonna be coming, coming down the pike at, at churches, so mm-hmm. , what would you say are times, um, maybe where you would, you would say, Hey, let's put phones away all together. Maybe talk about like camp situation Sure. Or, or retreats or whatever. Yeah. I'm sure that's probably one of the, the main ones that comes to people's minds.

Derry Prenkert (23:32):
Yeah. Yeah. Nick, you and I are a part of different youth ministry communities. Um, Facebook groups are a wonderful mess at times. . And one of the, one of the hot topics amongst many other things is when this gets asked of, Hey, what's your policy on cell phones? And it's interesting. It's like just hot takes start firing all over the place. Right. So, um, I was a part of one church for 23 years mm-hmm. , and I was a part of another church for 2.3 years. That's my little joke, uhha. But, um, , uh, in the one church that I was at for 23 years that I also grew up where technology was unfolded. And we, we had a hard and fast rule that really any trip that we did, we started with the idea of no cell phones would be allowed. And it was because we had a high emphasis on interactivity and, and, and it, cell phones weren't around when we set the rule.

Derry Prenkert (24:24):
It was, you can't bring your walkmans, your discmans your game boys because we're here to interact with each other. And the minute you look down on that thing, you're not there. So that just kind of lended itself over to cell phones and everything else. Mm-hmm. . And so, um, so any camp retreat, anything like that, we just, we put a pretty hard and fast rule with the one except perception being our senior retreat that we do with grads. We'd say, Hey, you can bring it. It was almost like this. Oh, you're old enough now. I, I don't know that I liked the motives in it, um, in, in it all. So, but then I went to, uh, another church where it was like, you can have them all the time mm-hmm. . Um, which, and the interesting thing I saw was effective ministry was taking place in both situations.

Derry Prenkert (25:09):
Um, but we hadn't really stopped and re strategized in my 23 year church to say, Hey, we're kind of, we kind of just stumbled into this, but these things are so much a part of his life. So we need to understand when we ask a kid to leave theirself at home, we're asking them to leave their most prized valuable mm-hmm. , um, possession mm-hmm. at home. Um, and then at the other church it was like, it's all there. But where we really said, Hey, how are we, are we, are we assessing how we're we're using these? And so I don't, I don't come from the mindset that says definitely no. Or definitely yes. As much as, again, back to that word, intentionality. Yeah. Um, have a plan. Yeah. Talk about it. So, so where we really landed, where at the church I was just at, was, um, if the event is going to be primarily focused on those that don't know Jesus coming into the situation, we're gonna be very hesitant to say he phones.

Derry Prenkert (26:06):
Yeah. Because they're not gonna get the idea of it. If the event is, is high, um, service based, um, intentional discipleship mm-hmm. and deepening, we're gonna stop and say, Hey, you know what, let's, this might be a time, Yeah. Let's evaluate this, where we're gonna maybe more lean toward this is a no-go, but then we're gonna say, here's why it's a no-go. If it's heavy discipleship, it's gonna say, this is gonna be a significant time. Where the primary things we're gonna do is we're gonna focus in on your connection with God and your connection with others, and we're gonna challenge you to find ways to do that outside of the technical technological world. Can you do that inside the technological world? Absolutely. But we see the value of a break. Um, and so that's kind of where we landed. Uh, but I mean the, the, I'm back, I'm back around the church that I was at for 23 years, though a lot of the rules are still in place that if it's a trip or retreat, it's no go. The interesting thing is, um, parents hated a whole lot more than students did.

Nick Clason (27:03):
Yeah. Now they were the one were noticing that too. Yep.

Derry Prenkert (27:05):
Yeah. If you, I would argue you wanna try to institute a no cell phone rule and you don't have it, it's gonna be really hard and it may not be worth the fight and it won't be because the kids, it's gonna be the parents. Parents are be, How do I get a hold of Johnny? Yeah. And, you know, in whatever case. Um, but, but when we take seniors on the retreat, when we were taking them, you know, and we'd allow to have phones, it just naturally had come up in conversations. They would go, Wait, are you gonna start allowing this for other kids on your, on, on campus? Like, we didn't have. And and I'm like, and, and I'd get into the conversation with 'em like, Oh, are you ticked because you had to suffer through not having 'em. Yeah. And you're, and you wanna make sure they get punished like you did.

Derry Prenkert (27:42):
And the seniors would be like, No, no. Like, I'd love that. We didn't have 'em. Yeah. I, I I actually would come back from camp. So grateful that you really pushed that on us for that time. Mm-hmm. . Now, is that right or wrong? No, I, I like, does that mean that you absolutely shouldn't do it? No, but it was just, it's an interesting aspect to it all. So again, long, long talking to just say it's about intentionality, it's about thinking through why would we want to do this? Mm-hmm. and then, and then making sure to communicate to those that are participating. And if it's in youth ministry, the parents of saying here's why. Yeah. Um, and then being ready for a fight, if you wanna say No phones. Cause it's, it's a challenge.

Nick Clason (28:20):
Yeah. That, No, that's really good. And again, right, like there's things that only physical can accomplish and there's things that only digital can accomplish. And I think an experience like a camp or whatever, there is a lot of connection that needs to take place. And most students, and you know, back to what you said earlier, people in church like don't know how to live in a world where it's just that where their phone isn't constantly dinging or lighting up or vying for their attention. And so I, I too have noticed in those types of environments where students, people are like grateful and thankful or say, man, like I'm, I haven't even like, wanted my phone. They're kinda surprised by it. You know, that that's, that's kind of the case. So Yeah. It's so

Derry Prenkert (29:05):
Interesting. Can I give two practical, just real practical tips if you choose to do no phones, especially if you're a youth pastor. Yeah, yeah. Um, one is bring in a, at at least one, maybe multiple people who's their sole job is to capture photos and videos of the experience mm-hmm. . And at the beginning of the experience, make sure that the students know who that person is, because one of the things you're asking them to sacrifice is

Nick Clason (29:28):
Capturing, capturing

Derry Prenkert (29:30):
The memories

Nick Clason (29:30):
Of

Derry Prenkert (29:31):
It all. And that's bigger than ever, right? Yeah. Because they can do that. And so making sure that that's there, and then making all those photos and videos available as soon as you possibly can. Um, and I, I noticed that, um, the, a camp I was at this summer there, the photographer was actually uploading those, um, to their social media platform, like with a link while the camp was there, even though the kids didn't have phones, so that as soon as they got home within like one hour, the kids were like posting their, you know, their real, their reels that recaps, like that's good. Building up all the stuff on the, That's really good. So I think that's a big one. And then two is think through your strategic feedback loop to parents. The parent freakout is, I don't, I, how do I know? Well mm-hmm.

Derry Prenkert (30:14):
, if you have a, a way of saying, Hey, here's, here's where you can go, um, whether it's a Facebook page or group, or if it's your Instagram, or if it's even like a, a remind, uh, setup or whatever, texting, like, here's where it's at. We found that Facebook lives where you could at a camp mm-hmm. , um, actually doing a, Hey, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go live at this time. I'm actually gonna give you a little glimpse into the session just for a short bit so you can just see what's going on and then come back and update you. And the beauty of a Facebook Live, every parent is still on Facebook, uh, for the most part. So they, they, they're there and so they can jump on live and then you can let it sit there. So, um, but those two things will, will go a long way in helping the resistance you might get. Um, when it comes to the no phone

Nick Clason (31:00):
Rule. Yeah. We, we, we do, we've done like a photographer and my, my favorite, and it always depends on like if the church or I have the budget to pull this off, but like get a videographer as well, or the same person, um, and have them do a daily, like, recap video. Those are great for opening your like sessions, but they're also amazing to throw up on YouTube and then text a link out. And so, you know, parents who, uh, send their kids without phone or whatever, they feel this like sense of relief if like they see their kid. Absolutely. Then the downside is one, one time I had to, uh, remove a clip because a kid was like picking his nose and the mom like, wanted it out. Yeah. Um, and then another time ano a mom was like, I haven't seen my kid in any of the recap bees. Yeah. And I'm trying not to freak out, but like, are they having fun? Like, are they making friends? Like, and I get it, like as a, as a dad myself, you know, now, like I would also want to try and like lay eyes on my kids. So

Derry Prenkert (32:01):
Totally same. Totally same. Actually Gabe, the pastor at the church that I'm serving with now, he did a meal time at camp and he just said, Okay, who needs to see their kid Facebook Live, , who needs to see their kid? And he just went around and said, funny. And he put up the phone, he said, Tell your mom you're okay. And, and it was like one of the most viewed Yeah. There are a lot of people there, so Yeah. And that is legit. And it's, you gotta be ready for it for that whole world. And, um, it is, that is evidence again, of the different world. And, and as a parent of a high schooler and a middle schooler, I wasn't at the high school camp. I was at the middle school camp. I was watching for my kid. Yeah.

Derry Prenkert (32:38):
That I didn't quite quite realize. So.

Nick Clason (32:40):
All right. Last, last thing. Um, how can we, as pastors, people in ministry, what are ways there that you see that we can optimize technology, um, now Cause like the overall mission, right? Of the church mm-hmm. to make disciples. And Paul used, you know, the thing available to him writing letters at the time to reach churches that he was not near. So what are some ways, just maybe a couple ideas off the top of your head that you have seen effective or ideas that maybe you haven't seen totally fleshed out, but are ruminating inside. Like Yeah. Where we can use what is available to us in technology. I mean, even the fact that I'm sitting in Texas here in northern Indiana and we're having this conversation and we're seeing each other, like, that's an advantage that wasn't available to us pre 2007. Right. And so, uh, what are some of those things maybe that you have seen or have thought about that we can use to our advantage to help kids take steps closer to Jesus?

Derry Prenkert (33:40):
Yeah. Let me throw you a little bit of a curve on where I might go with this to start only, um, in that I've been a part of large to very large churches mm-hmm. , and you've been a part of larger churches where there's a budget that's available and mass communication through technology. And so our minds might immediately go to Yeah. Podcasts and video streams mm-hmm. and, uh, you know, Instagram and getting somehow in with you version so you can build up a Bible reading plan. And I Yes. Yeah.

Nick Clason (34:10):
But I would it if you can

Derry Prenkert (34:11):
Yeah. I would say pastors and ministers to remember to that this is an incredible one to one ministry tool still mm-hmm. . And so, um, and, and this has gotten especially big to me as I've shifted over into this world now where my primary job that I says God's called me to is just to pastor pastors, especially those that are youth pastors. Well, they're all over the nation. Yeah. And so, um, last night, Sunday night for me, I'm recognizing I was just like, Lord, who are the people right now that might just kind of be in that spot that a word of encouragement or a check-in could go a long way? And there were, there were four texts that were sent out to individuals going, Hey, you're on my mind. How did today go? Or what's going on in your mind? Woke up this morning and like I already told you about, there was one guy that is first day he shifted from the education world to the church world.

Derry Prenkert (35:03):
Hmm. And so, um, so I, I would just start by saying yes, I mean, as we think about the massive ways to do it, let's not forget that pastoring at its best that's good is a one to one, a one to three relationship mm-hmm. . And so, uh, connecting with our parishioners are people that we're discipling, whoever they might be, uh, through the phone and doing it healthily and thinking through safeguards and all those things are really important, especially for youth pastors. Um, which probably is a whole other episode to talk through at some point. . Yeah. But, um, but to understand like, this is a ministry tool at its core. And so a a properly placed text, phone call, FaceTime, um, like, or comment on a, um, on a, on a post, uh, can is, is ministry, like, is deep ministry and meaningful ministry at times.

Derry Prenkert (35:53):
Mm-hmm. . Um, That's great. It was interesting Nick, uh, my former youth pastor, uh, my dad died 10, uh, 13 years ago now, and my former youth minister is no longer in youth ministry. And, but it was an incredible influence on my life. Mm-hmm. . And it was about, uh, it was, it was right around eight years after my dad had died, I posted just a memory of him and below in the comment section, my old youth pastor got on and he, all he wrote was, I'm so proud of you Derry. And I read that and I lost it. And, and I talked to him and, and what happened in that moment was like, I realized, uh, can, like, thank you. I miss I miss having my dad, and I'm not, I don't have a dad that can physically say to me, I'm proud of you anymore.

Derry Prenkert (36:39):
And I'm, I'm like a 36 year old man, like blubbering over my youth pastor telling me he's proud of me. But it's because he, he, in that moment, he ministered to me through a simple comment on a Facebook group mm-hmm. that also helped me work through some grieving that I was at. I hadn't really just walked through and said, God, I'm kind of ticked, I'm kind of ticked right now because I've lost, like, why did this happen? And, and it helped me kind of break through to a new level. And so, so anyway, like just, I, I, that's the one thing I would just say is as we think through the strategic and the greater stuff, let's not forget this is a incredible tool for the most effective ministry that is relational and personal in nature. That's good. That's good. Um, um, I would say otherwise though too is, um, I have a good friend, John McAllen, Johnny Mack, he did this thing, he started, it was called Echo Ministry.

Derry Prenkert (37:25):
And the idea was how do you take and create echos of what's happening on the, on the weekend? How do you have the message echo through the rest of the week? And our technology, our cell phones are such a primary tool to make that happen. You said it so well, there are things that we can do now because we have these, um, where it can show up in the moment, in, in different ways, uh, whether it's, uh, uh, a thinking through, uh, devotional journey, like I said, through you version. Mm-hmm. , uh, uh, the youth group that I just was at for the last couple of years, they're doing a thing called sale up Moments every week. They have just one moment that, that where they, they use on social media where they say, Okay, you're scrolling through, but stop, exhale, um, and listen to God allow 'em to speak to you.

Derry Prenkert (38:16):
You know? And there's a whole acronym to it. I can't remember what the H was good. Yeah. I like that. You know, have a burger, I think was the last, no, I can't remember what the H was, but, um, they, they, they walked through it and, and so using that was, um, was, was a way to do it. So I, I think it's that matter of how can we echo it mm-hmm. . And there's a lot, you know, podcasts can be a part of it. Uh, I started something called Digging Deeper with our main services when I was, uh, at my own church. And, and what we did was every Wednesday I would sit down with whoever was preaching mm-hmm. . And if I, I, I was a part of the teaching time. If I was preaching, somebody else would come in and the first thing we'd say, Hey, hey, what hit the cutting room floor?

Derry Prenkert (38:53):
What were you not able to get to this weekend that you wish you could have? And people just love that aspect, but then we would pick it part a little bit more mm-hmm. . And so, and it, it's not hard. It's a, you know, get, get a little basic, um, Yeah. Recording set up and you can get it set up pretty easy. Um, and so there's just so many ways, but I would just start with the, like, how can we echo into the week, what happened on the weekend Yep. And use it on a digital format.

Nick Clason (39:16):
Yeah. No, that's good. I, I also personally think that we don't know yet like, the answer to some of these questions. Yeah. Like, I still think that there's, uh, things yet to be discovered, you know, in front of us. And so I think, uh, if there's any sort of like, challenge for anyone listening, I would just say like, just do something. Um, and you may stumble upon something great. You may find some stuff that's terrible and you need to cut it out. Um, but if you're, if you're always looking that direction, uh, you'll, you'll stumble upon something good that you maybe don't even know, or you maybe didn't, you know, you maybe weren't even able to see it right now when you started it because of a limited technology or budget or whatever. And so just be looking for ways. Cuz like I said, it's less, I think, I personally think it's easy to make digital about being flashy, um, or whatever, looking good to parents or other youth pastors or other people in ministry, whatever.

Nick Clason (40:15):
But I think it's far less about that for me at least, and it's more about how effective can I be in spreading the message of Jesus with all the tools that he's given to me. Yeah. Like, I'm, I'm alive in 2022 with access to podcast microphones and phones that can take incredible videos and pictures, like mm-hmm. , how am I going to use steward those things to reach the most amount of people, you know, that have an audience to reach. So I think that's, that would be my challenge to whoever's listening is think what Dare said, think through all the things that, with intentionality, Um, and then just be open, you know, to, to utilizing some stuff.

Derry Prenkert (40:52):
So yeah. You're, you're so right on. We don't have it all figured out. Probably one of my greatest pet peeves in life are, uh, those that are convinced they have it all figured out. Um, Yeah. and I, I, I can do that at times. And usually when I'm at that point and I'm like, Oh yeah, I know how to do this. Mm-hmm. , that's the moment when I will fall flat on my face. And so, so there's a ton to be learned. There's a ton to be determined I love, or

Nick Clason (41:14):
That's when a new iPhone comes out, Right. And you're like, Oh, this changed everything. Or Covid hit and this changed everything. So yes. Totally. Good. Yes. I think we're living through that. Well, hey man. Um, anything else off top of your head? You don't have to, but I just wanna make sure you said everything you wanted to say. Didn't leave anything unsaid.

Derry Prenkert (41:30):
I think the only thing I would maybe end with is in that same vein is, um, it's everywhere. It's so much. Uh, also don't be afraid to not feel like you have to do everything, you know? Um, uh, especially to the minister that's trying to think through how to do effectively. There is a, there is a moment where less is more because your soul needs to rest, you know? Mm-hmm. , if you're finding yourself trying to, uh, late at night when you should be being around your family, invest your family or on your day off going, this is the time while Ill dive into all this digital stuff. Eh, you know what, maybe, maybe that's, uh, not worth it. No, not, maybe it definitely is not worth it. Definitely not worth, There's just, that's the part of like this thing, there's just so much out there. Mm-hmm. don't, I, I I guess it's like that idea of don't gain the digital world at the cost of your soul. Yeah. good is, is, is a big thing. And I just, I say that out of a season where I'm just seeing so many of us burn out. Um, and we're burning out in a lot of different ways, but one is because we're just constantly on and we don't hit the off switch. That's

Nick Clason (42:34):
Good. That's good. Love it, man. Well, hey, thanks again. Uh, you referenced a couple things in here. I'll toss 'em in show notes, like your resource on D ym so that all tens of our listeners can go get it. There you go. Um, anyway, thanks for hanging out man. And uh, absolutely. We'll chat again. Chat again. Yeah. Awesome.

Nick Clason (42:52):
Well, wasn't that great, Uh, super thoughtful, super helpful. Um, I hope that you found this interesting and helpful as well. Hey, um, we are online on Twitter at Hybrid Ministry. Would love to have you come hang out, follow us over there. Um, we're still growing, not super active yet, but, uh, we're well on our way. And also everything you need, show notes, links, transcripts, all kinds of stuff. You can find out hybrid ministry.xyz along with a now growing bank of archive and older episodes. So if you're just not stumbling upon us, we'd love to have you go back and check it out. Uh, you can do all of that at hybridministry.xyz Ze. Again, thanks for being with us today and we'll chat next time.

]]> SUMMARY
In this episode, Nick sits down with his friend, Derry Prenkert, a 20+ year youth ministry veteran. Derry shares about the monumental shift of the invention of the smart phone. How things were before, and how things have shifted, but most importantly, how we utilize this technology for our benefit and gain to reach more students for the mission of Jesus.

Follow us on Twitter http://www.twitter.com/hybridministry
Find all the resources you need from the podcast http://www.hybridministry.xyz
Follow Derry online:
-TWITTER: https://twitter.com/derryprenkert
-INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/derryprenkert/
-PODCAST: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/my-third-decade-in-youth-ministry/id1338273697

SHOWNOTES
Steve Job's introduction of the iPhone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7qPAY9JqE4
Derry's Parenting Resource: https://www.downloadyouthministry.com/p/adolescence%2C-technology-and-parenting/training-3996.html
Johnny Mac's Stuff: https://yourhouseblend.com/jonnysblend

TIMECODES
00:00-03:30 Intro
03:30-10:53 The impact of the invention of the iPhone
10:53-14:30 What happened in ministry after the invention of the iPhone
14:30-23:20 How have you responded since then?
23:20-32:44 When do you ask phones to be put away?
32:44-41:23 How can we utilize technology now to further and advance God's mission?
41:23-43:38 Outro

TRANSCRIPT
Nick Clason (00:00):
What is up everybody? Welcome to another episode of the Hybrid Ministry podcast. Excited to be with you today. Uh, today we have our very first, uh, guest interview, uh, friend of mine Derry Pinker. He's located in, um, Amish town, Nape Indiana. Um, right now, uh, he worked at that church for over 20 years, and then he was at another church for just a couple years, super large church in, uh, Kentucky. So, um, excited to bring you Derry's conversation. Uh, he mentions a couple of different links. He talks about Steve Jobs' keynote, a resource that he has on download youth ministry and echo ministry. I'm gonna include all of those in the show notes, but without any further ado, let's just hop in so you can get to know Derry.

Nick Clason (00:51):
All right, well, what's up Derry? Good to have you on the podcast. Welcome, man.

Derry Prenkert (00:56):
Yeah, it's so good to be with you, Nick. Thanks for having me on.

Nick Clason (00:58):
Yeah. So as we were talking a little bit before I hit record here, you have a podcast or did, or what would you define the, the existence of your podcast? Right Now?

Derry Prenkert (01:11):
The status of my third decade. It is, it has been on the longest hiatus ever. Um, yeah. And it is coming back. Um, it's tied to this whole world of the shift that I've, I've made from being in a local church to now serving pastors in the local church. Yeah. And I'm in a season of getting all the groundwork laid for that. I, uh, have every intention, every intention by, uh, early 2023 that it's gonna launch back out. And there are some, there are actually some things already recorded for it, so, so it hasn't completely gone away. There, there is, there is a future to it.

Nick Clason (01:46):
That's good. Cuz it's still in my podcast catcher, so I'm not unsubscribing from, I just wanna let you know that it's still there. So, um, but back when I mowed the lawn when I worked two churches ago, I think I heard you, um, talk about like, uh, this really big shift in culture and you noticed that it was, uh, have to do with when the iPhone came into existence. Mm-hmm. , just give us a little bit, like give us your story, how long you've been, you know, doing youth ministry, um, and how you have a beneficial perspective of before technology and phones are a part of what we have to navigate and deal with. And then post, and then maybe we can just kind of chat about how we navigate that as, you know, people who are, uh, ministering to people, students, um, who are very much entrenched in this technology, like Lane and world.

Derry Prenkert (02:42):
Yeah, absolutely. So, um, my story is somebody that started in youth ministry at 19 years old. I was just about to turn 20 and I started an internship and that was back in 1996. Mm-hmm. . Yeah, I'm old. Um, and so graduated from high school in 95, start in, in ministry in 96. And so I get 11 years of ministry. Um, and in those 11 years, uh, you know, cell phones, car phones were around when I started . Yeah. And cell phones were around when I finished college in 1999. But they were, they roamed the minute you got outside of about 10 miles from your house and you only use them in emergencies. And then, and then it moved into, you know, 2004, 2005, the razor flip. Flum was the coolest thing in the world is texting, kind of entered the picture mm-hmm. . Um, and then, you know, so I, but, but really it was 2007 when Steve Jobs holds up this, this phone.

Derry Prenkert (03:36):
And it's actually interesting to go back and watch, I don't know if you've ever watched that keynote when he does it. No, I should, but, but he, he, he introduces it and is pretty prophetic, like the level of what he's talking about where technology is heading. Cause he said this is gonna revolutionize and change. And he says, he says, What would happen if we were to introduce a computer operating system, a phone and a iPod all in one thing. Yeah. And that's, that's the heartbeat of what they did. Um, and actually I, I do a technology thing with parents, uh, adolescents, technology and parenting. Mm-hmm. , uh, what I do is, I'll actually, it's, it's a fun little exercise cuz if you think about, you got, most parents of teenagers right now are, are there children of the eighties if they're really, if they've got younger, like their youngest kids are teenagers now, nineties or maybe early two thousands mm-hmm. . And so what I do is I'll put up on the screen different, like, what was the technology of our time. And so like, you know, in the eighties you got like VCRs and corded phones and, and a Walkman or a giant computer that has a green screen maybe.

Nick Clason (04:41):
Yeah. I found the VCR yesterday in our building, so that was cool,

Derry Prenkert (04:46):
Dude. And, and did you try playing anything? Cause it probably just ate the tape, right?

Nick Clason (04:49):
Yeah, no, I was like, I don't, I don't even know if we would ever need this, but, Right. Yeah. Here it

Derry Prenkert (04:53):
Is. Yeah. Yeah. It's, see the, in the eighties in technology, like everything got fixed by blowing on it. Um, so like the VHS tape wasn't working. You blew on it. The, the Nintendo cartridge. Yep. You blew in that and then blew in the box. Mm-hmm. . So that was, you know, eighties in the nineties, you have cell phones come, you got the Discman mm-hmm. that I remember. I would, as the nineties I would run or exercise with a discman, but I had to be careful not to run too hard because the CD would skip Yeah.

Nick Clason (05:17):
As I skipping. I

Derry Prenkert (05:18):
Remember that. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and then, you know, early two thousands social media in MySpace shows up. Yep. But, you know, garins show up, Uhhuh, um, digital cameras are a big deal in another 2000 flat screen TVs. Right. So we walk through these different, different moments and I say in 2007, Steve Jobs holds up this, this little device. And everything I just said was around in those different decades now lives inside this single device. Mm. Interesting. It is your video games. It is your music, you know, it's your disc man, it's your VCR or your DVD player. It is your

Nick Clason (05:53):
Computer, your calendar. Yeah.

Derry Prenkert (05:55):
Yeah. It's everything. It's all there. And, and so for parents, it's just saying like, recognize how significant this shift is. And so for those of us in ministry, if we are in that age, it's important to recognize that for those of us that are, I I, a lot of youth pastors are maybe a little, um, younger than the parents that they have. Right. Remember, like, these are the parents you're working with that, that this shift has happened. It might be a little more native to you as a youth pastor if you're in your, your mid to early twenties mm-hmm. . But it's foreign. It's, it's, it's so different and, and it's, it's changed so much. Um, the two things to kind of say, when I look at youth culture, cuz that's where I spent a lot of my time Yeah. That I would say are huge, is, uh, one youth group in church.

Derry Prenkert (06:40):
I was at a church that ha drew from multiple high schools. And pre 2007, we were the place to go to connect with friends. Hmm. Um, now we saw God move and we were, we were, we were unapologetic that that wasn't the, that wasn't the primary point. The primary point was to encounter a relationship with Jesus, to understand your call, to be a part of this kingdom work. But the appeal for my kids, I'm gonna drop names that nobody knows from Wawa c high school at Northwood High School. Mm-hmm. and Goshan High School. Someone knows each other. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Um, uh, they can meet weekly at our place. Right. Uh, now with the institution of not only, you know, the, just the move of the cell phone with texting, but then once the iPhone came in, it wasn't just you, you could, you didn't have to go there to meet a place you could actually interact face to face, you know, through FaceTime, through, through, um, whatever it might be.

Derry Prenkert (07:33):
Google Meet all do different stuff. You could, you could do that over the phone. So it became less important. The other thing that's super intriguing is, I don't know about Eich, but the greatest day of my life, uh, as a teenager was when I turned 16 in one month in my town, because that was the day I could get my driver's license. Yeah. And by getting my driver's license, that meant a whole new, uh, level of freedom, empowerment, and ownership. Like that driver's license was my ticket to independence. Yeah. I've noticed, um, a major change. I can't believe how many kids I interact with that are like 16, 17 and, you know, we're doing an event. They're like, Hey, can I get a ride? I'm like, You don't have your license yet. Yeah. No. And, and, and, and I I don't have like the scientific proof to this, just the conversation.

Derry Prenkert (08:25):
Sure. It's, they're like, Why would I, why would I need it? Well, yeah, the big shift came like that that license was my way to get to my friends. Mm-hmm. and my community. Now, this, this thing that we can hold in our hands is our ticket to interact. And so, so like one of the, I guess like the big implication that I would throw out that is huge is it it has radically transformed our connectivity mm-hmm. , um, even with the people right next to us. Yeah. Um, so I mean, so many other thoughts, but there's, those are just a couple things like that we recognize. Another way I say it is like we basically now are carrying around super computers in our pockets. Yeah. That, uh, it's, they are that we're, we have, we have excessive, uh, access to information. We are, we are constantly connected. Um, and it's like invasive, you know, it's not like it's, when's the last time I I I, you can answer this or the people are listening, When's the last time you actually turned off powered down your phone

Nick Clason (09:26):
On your own? Well, mine's new, so never

Derry Prenkert (09:29):
Yeah. .

Nick Clason (09:30):
Right,

Derry Prenkert (09:30):
Right. And it's, it's like impossible to, like, they've made it so it's hard to do. And so it's always there. Now, now I might sound like I'm interesting. Yeah. I'm negative on this. I do mourn more in some things because I'm old and I'm an old guy sitting saying, Get off my lawn kids. You know, a little bit. But, um, but those are some of the things that I think are big that have changed. And so, so just the way we go about ministry has to change with it. It is in my mind, we measure time on before and after like, events that come to mind in youth ministry world, most youth pastors that were around before Columbine mm-hmm. and after Columbine, they know it changed the way you had to handle liabilities and safety

Nick Clason (10:10):
Measures. Yeah.

Derry Prenkert (10:11):
Mm-hmm. pre nine 11. Post nine 11 as a, as a culture, our life shifted on how we view, uh, things pre covid, post covid. We're still learning that all. Yeah. I still could make the argument pre iPhone and post iPhone, pre smartphone and post iPhone could be, could be the most significant watershed cultural moment that we've experienced in the LA since World War ii. Yeah.

Nick Clason (10:35):
I don't, one of, one of like, I, one of the guys I listen to a lot, his name, you know, Brady Shear mm-hmm. , he talks about this being the biggest communication shift that we've seen in 500 years. So he's referencing that being the printing press. Yeah. And now with all this digital stuff. So that's a great call. Let's go like, let's go there a little bit. You said, um, pre iPhone people would gather from multiple high schools to your church. Did you notice that stopping, um, after, did you notice attendance shifting or did you just notice that still happens but there's, there's now just an iPhone in everyone's pocket and that's changing how they're interacting. But things are still, still sort of the same. Like, what would you say was, uh, like a, an actual effect, right? Yeah. Of that attendance thing you're talking about.

Derry Prenkert (11:25):
This is not scientific at all. It's very guttural and it's nature. Uh, and it's my experience, I would say it didn't, for some it stopped. But I would say the bigger thing is it got more sporadic. In fact, you we're just talking, I don't know, it would be fascinating. You know, they talk about how people are coming to church less often Right. Than they used to. That a regular attendant is, attender is considered once every month or once every three weeks. Right? Yep. I wonder how that correlates to the institution of like the, the actual cell phone and smartphone because Yeah, because that was the thing. Like pre pre smartphone, um, even kids from the same school, there was the chance to just, you know, we're not just going through in passing periods. We're gonna have a small group time. We're gonna have a pre hangout post hangout mm-hmm.

Derry Prenkert (12:09):
once a week. This is my guaranteed time. I'm gonna get time with my friends. Yeah. Um, and so it got more sporadic. Yeah. Uh, definitely. And, and that could be in part because they could have the community outside of the youth group. Um, but it still, that's why I would, I would still be a firm believer. There is a limitation to what you can accomplish over digital. I think anybody that truly had to walk through the PA pandemic and live completely on a screen would a hundred percent agree with me. You can't replace, um, interpersonal in person reaction Totally. With digital. But you can find more connection or, or you can find connection in the gaps through that. And so I think it got more, um, more sporadic, uh, in nature. And yes, they are showing up with them. And I mean, man, whew, how many conversations do I have?

Derry Prenkert (12:58):
I had with parents and leaders on, We gotta, we gotta, we gotta like force kids to turn these off or tell 'em they can't have 'em at all. And then, and then the issue of parents talking about what age do I give my kid a phone? When do I not? Because not only are they carrying it around, I mean, it's just, it's just there. And so the amount of attention that was going down to it when they were around that, that I'd say kinda really hit in the two, like 2014 15 phrase when everybody got one. Mm-hmm. , uh, everybody had one.

Nick Clason (13:28):
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like, even my kids in first grade and his teacher sended stuff on his like e backpack and then his like e folder and he has like iPad time. Like, so my sort of thing is, while you may lament the loss of some of what was prefo and pre-technology, um, it's not going anywhere. And so, you know, cuz I, I'm with you sometimes I have leaders who are like, We just need to get rid of the phones, take 'em away from the kids. Like make sure that they, you know, only use paper bibles and that, you know, it's, it's wrong to read God's word on a screen type of thing. And that's, that's a high preference maybe mm-hmm. . And there may be some validity to some of those things, but the fact of the matter is like, why, You know, my argument is why are we discouraging a kid from reading the Bible if it's super accessible to them and in their pocket 24 hours a day?

Nick Clason (14:25):
Um, you know, so, So what have you noticed or what are some of the things that you've done realizing like, we can't, we can't get ourselves away from these. They are everywhere. They're on all the time. They are our everything. Our day planner, our calendar and our social life in a lot of ways. You know, like what are some of the things that you've, you've tried to embrace as a youth pastor, um, to maybe leverage them or lean into them and then maybe what are some of the times that you've discouraged use of them? Because you're like the, the, you know, the re the result of what's gonna happen here physically is gonna be greater than what is happening if you're on your

Derry Prenkert (15:02):
Phone. Yeah. It's great. Um, in the thing I do with parents, which total shameless plug, it's actually on D ym, you get it, download Youth Mystery

Nick Clason (15:12):
And then you have an extra $4 in your pocket. Yeah, yeah,

Derry Prenkert (15:15):
Yeah. From that roof. Yeah. It's called Adolescents Parenting and Technology. I use an illustration. I, and I, it's an illustration that, that hit me is our phones are a knife, um, and a knife, uh, can serve many purposes. Uh, a knife is, can be used to spread butter. It can be used to whittle wood to make, uh, amazing things. It can be, it can be, uh, used to, you know, cut through things that are hard to cut through. It also can be used to kill people. Um, it's really about what is happening with the person that has it in their hands. And a part of that is what's their intentions as well as what's their awareness of a knife. You know, I've got, you've got younger kids. Mm-hmm. , I had a six year old that early on, he just got us obsessed with our steak knives when he was three or four.

Derry Prenkert (16:03):
And we had to like, put those things up high cuz he just, he didn't understand the danger involving those knives. Right. Um, and, and so, uh, so with that, like, with that illustration in mind and looking at it that way, I, I look at this thing, a knife is really, for the most part neutral. Unless it's this crazy butcher knife that is, for the most part, a knife is neutral. It's what you're doing with it in your hands. So then it becomes about making sure to check your motives as well as prepare the person that has it in their hands to use it in the right way and to know how to use it in the right way. And, um, I think in that, like, especially if we're talking to ministers and I, I would put this across the board, in fact mm-hmm. , I would argue that senior pastors teaching pastors should be coaching, uh, 50, 60 year olds how to utilize their phones wisely, even more so than those that are just growing up with it, a native part of their life.

Derry Prenkert (17:03):
Hmm. Um, cuz I don't see a lot of students, uh, just making a fool of themselves on how they treat people on, on social media is, uh, as much as I see adults, uh, in what they're saying and everything else. So, so the, it's across the board. Like we have a responsibility to look at what does scripture say about, especially from a discipleship aspect of how we are to love our neighbors ourselves, and then how does it play out on this thing, you know? Mm-hmm. . So, so that would be, that would be a thing. So, um, so that's just, sorry, little rant there, but the knife and, and, and we, we have a responsibility to show them. Uh, I am a big fan Nick, of just intentionality in ministry overall. I think a lot of pastors, uh, I'm, I'm dedicating really, I feel like the second, second half of my life is I just want youth pastors and any pastors to be healthy in ministry.

Derry Prenkert (17:53):
And a big part of that is guarding your own heart. Um, another part is just thinking clearly and strategically in Christ's focus and inten and intentionality in what you're doing is a big part of that. Um, and so I would, I would argue that anybody that is in charge of a program, uh, a ministry, uh, any regular ministry gathering, there should be a side to say, Okay, what's our philosophy in how phones play into this? Mm-hmm. . And it can take up a lot of different forms. Yeah. One is what's our, so we're gonna be teaching this series, How's it showing up on their phones? Mm-hmm. , are we gonna do digital notes that they can look at while they're in the room? Are we going to do follow up stuff through social media that's gonna create interaction? Um, you've done some great stuff on the importance of don't just use your social media of as a, as a billboard that uses this interactive place.

Derry Prenkert (18:47):
You know, thinking through those things. Mm-hmm. , um, how are we going to actually handle the phones inside the space? What are, are, are, uh, uh, to what, what do we need to take into account if a middle school, I, I'm helping out in middle school right now, and I'm at a pretty conservative community mm-hmm. where I'd say it's six through eight grade, I would say no more than half the kids are, are actually walking in with smartphones. Now I know some would go, That's ridiculous. Well, that's my community. Sure. So I need to be thinking through, um, that I, I have to have a path for the non phone user. Right. But also I need to be thinking through for the phone user to begin to show them now. Like, Hey, if you're gonna follow Jesus, that plays out in this thing. Yeah.

Derry Prenkert (19:28):
So how do we do that? So what, what am I teaching? You know, when I get to the practical steps of my teaching, how am I intentionally saying, Hey, this is how this plays out on your phone. You know, that can be a part of it. Um, and then, and then I think, uh, there's just the overall, uh, idea of, I, I have kind of these categories I think through that I want to try to do inside the programming. And this is very youth ministry specific. I want to have times where, uh, where they have it and it's on, but they're encouraged to put it to, to the side mm-hmm. and not access it at all. Because, because we need to be able to do that in real life at times. Mm-hmm. , you know mm-hmm. . And so small groups, a lot of times, I don't know if you have this some, sometimes they'll do like the basket or, or, or things to say, Hey, it's here.

Derry Prenkert (20:14):
Or just even stack them in the middle of the room like, it's here, but we're not gonna use Oh yeah. Use that right now. Yeah. And, um, or it's just even a, Hey, let's put this in our pockets. Just hang tight with me for a little bit. Um, then there's then there's times where it's like off or not there at all. And we can talk about that one a little bit more. Probably it'd be a good one of, of, Hey, this is a no cell phone situation. Yeah. I think that's very debatable on how much we're often, but there's times where it's important to just, I mean, uh, solitude, simplicity, um, making sure that we're not controlled by things all apart of following Jesus. But then most importantly is we're gonna have times where we use this thing in a redemptive manner. Yeah. Um, we're gonna find ways.

Derry Prenkert (20:57):
So, so we are closing out and we've talked about, uh, the importance of praying for others and what ha you know, maybe we're doing a series on prayer and it's about praying for others. And, and what we say is, Okay, here's what we're gonna do right now. If you have a phone, I want you to pull it out and I'm just gonna ask the Lord to speak to us, to give you a name right now as somebody you could pray for. Hmm. And, and now I want you to pull out your phone and I want you to text them, not not, not text them that you are praying for them, actually text out what your prayer for them is. Hmm. Or when you walk out the room tonight, I want you to use that little voice memo thing. I did this this morning. Uh, I got a friend who just started first day in ministry today. I, I did a voice memo to him that was just solely my prayer and that was it. Like, here's my prayer for you today as you started on ministry. Yeah. That's cool. So, so finding ways to use it, redemptively. So again, I kind of went different, but use it redemptively. Find ways to put it to the side, find ways to turn it off or not have it there at all. And do all of that intentionally.

Nick Clason (21:51):
Yeah. I mean, a lot, a lot of what we say on here is that digital and physical, uh, both are important, but they're both categorically different. And so that's why I do think there is value in things that are strictly physical only. I think, like you said, we learned a lot of things about ourselves and people during covid when what was physical could not be completely replicated digitally. Yeah. Um, and vice versa. Right. And that's, that's the thing too, is like, I think the vice versa piece is like, there are some digital things that are digital only, like mm-hmm. me. Like you can do message recaps and, and things like that where you're calling back to what you did, um, throughout the week. Like on things like social media where people are not physically gathering in your room on a Tuesday morning, or they can be reading a u version plan on their own when they wake up on Thursday afternoon, you know, at lunch, whatever.

Nick Clason (22:46):
So mm-hmm. , that's, that's this whole idea of hybrid is it's, there is room for, for physical only. And there's also space, I think for digital. And that's part of the thing is we've, and I think a lot of churches are kind of running up into this, is they're, uh, Hey, you're, you're a youth pastor so you have to do all of it. Mm-hmm. , it's like these are two completely like different lanes. And so there's, I mean, there's staffing conversations and budget conversations I think like around all these things that are gonna be coming, coming down the pike at, at churches, so mm-hmm. , what would you say are times, um, maybe where you would, you would say, Hey, let's put phones away all together. Maybe talk about like camp situation Sure. Or, or retreats or whatever. Yeah. I'm sure that's probably one of the, the main ones that comes to people's minds.

Derry Prenkert (23:32):
Yeah. Yeah. Nick, you and I are a part of different youth ministry communities. Um, Facebook groups are a wonderful mess at times. . And one of the, one of the hot topics amongst many other things is when this gets asked of, Hey, what's your policy on cell phones? And it's interesting. It's like just hot takes start firing all over the place. Right. So, um, I was a part of one church for 23 years mm-hmm. , and I was a part of another church for 2.3 years. That's my little joke, uhha. But, um, , uh, in the one church that I was at for 23 years that I also grew up where technology was unfolded. And we, we had a hard and fast rule that really any trip that we did, we started with the idea of no cell phones would be allowed. And it was because we had a high emphasis on interactivity and, and, and it, cell phones weren't around when we set the rule.

Derry Prenkert (24:24):
It was, you can't bring your walkmans, your discmans your game boys because we're here to interact with each other. And the minute you look down on that thing, you're not there. So that just kind of lended itself over to cell phones and everything else. Mm-hmm. . And so, um, so any camp retreat, anything like that, we just, we put a pretty hard and fast rule with the one except perception being our senior retreat that we do with grads. We'd say, Hey, you can bring it. It was almost like this. Oh, you're old enough now. I, I don't know that I liked the motives in it, um, in, in it all. So, but then I went to, uh, another church where it was like, you can have them all the time mm-hmm. . Um, which, and the interesting thing I saw was effective ministry was taking place in both situations.

Derry Prenkert (25:09):
Um, but we hadn't really stopped and re strategized in my 23 year church to say, Hey, we're kind of, we kind of just stumbled into this, but these things are so much a part of his life. So we need to understand when we ask a kid to leave theirself at home, we're asking them to leave their most prized valuable mm-hmm. , um, possession mm-hmm. at home. Um, and then at the other church it was like, it's all there. But where we really said, Hey, how are we, are we, are we assessing how we're we're using these? And so I don't, I don't come from the mindset that says definitely no. Or definitely yes. As much as, again, back to that word, intentionality. Yeah. Um, have a plan. Yeah. Talk about it. So, so where we really landed, where at the church I was just at, was, um, if the event is going to be primarily focused on those that don't know Jesus coming into the situation, we're gonna be very hesitant to say he phones.

Derry Prenkert (26:06):
Yeah. Because they're not gonna get the idea of it. If the event is, is high, um, service based, um, intentional discipleship mm-hmm. and deepening, we're gonna stop and say, Hey, you know what, let's, this might be a time, Yeah. Let's evaluate this, where we're gonna maybe more lean toward this is a no-go, but then we're gonna say, here's why it's a no-go. If it's heavy discipleship, it's gonna say, this is gonna be a significant time. Where the primary things we're gonna do is we're gonna focus in on your connection with God and your connection with others, and we're gonna challenge you to find ways to do that outside of the technical technological world. Can you do that inside the technological world? Absolutely. But we see the value of a break. Um, and so that's kind of where we landed. Uh, but I mean the, the, I'm back, I'm back around the church that I was at for 23 years, though a lot of the rules are still in place that if it's a trip or retreat, it's no go. The interesting thing is, um, parents hated a whole lot more than students did.

Nick Clason (27:03):
Yeah. Now they were the one were noticing that too. Yep.

Derry Prenkert (27:05):
Yeah. If you, I would argue you wanna try to institute a no cell phone rule and you don't have it, it's gonna be really hard and it may not be worth the fight and it won't be because the kids, it's gonna be the parents. Parents are be, How do I get a hold of Johnny? Yeah. And, you know, in whatever case. Um, but, but when we take seniors on the retreat, when we were taking them, you know, and we'd allow to have phones, it just naturally had come up in conversations. They would go, Wait, are you gonna start allowing this for other kids on your, on, on campus? Like, we didn't have. And and I'm like, and, and I'd get into the conversation with 'em like, Oh, are you ticked because you had to suffer through not having 'em. Yeah. And you're, and you wanna make sure they get punished like you did.

Derry Prenkert (27:42):
And the seniors would be like, No, no. Like, I'd love that. We didn't have 'em. Yeah. I, I I actually would come back from camp. So grateful that you really pushed that on us for that time. Mm-hmm. . Now, is that right or wrong? No, I, I like, does that mean that you absolutely shouldn't do it? No, but it was just, it's an interesting aspect to it all. So again, long, long talking to just say it's about intentionality, it's about thinking through why would we want to do this? Mm-hmm. and then, and then making sure to communicate to those that are participating. And if it's in youth ministry, the parents of saying here's why. Yeah. Um, and then being ready for a fight, if you wanna say No phones. Cause it's, it's a challenge.

Nick Clason (28:20):
Yeah. That, No, that's really good. And again, right, like there's things that only physical can accomplish and there's things that only digital can accomplish. And I think an experience like a camp or whatever, there is a lot of connection that needs to take place. And most students, and you know, back to what you said earlier, people in church like don't know how to live in a world where it's just that where their phone isn't constantly dinging or lighting up or vying for their attention. And so I, I too have noticed in those types of environments where students, people are like grateful and thankful or say, man, like I'm, I haven't even like, wanted my phone. They're kinda surprised by it. You know, that that's, that's kind of the case. So Yeah. It's so

Derry Prenkert (29:05):
Interesting. Can I give two practical, just real practical tips if you choose to do no phones, especially if you're a youth pastor. Yeah, yeah. Um, one is bring in a, at at least one, maybe multiple people who's their sole job is to capture photos and videos of the experience mm-hmm. . And at the beginning of the experience, make sure that the students know who that person is, because one of the things you're asking them to sacrifice is

Nick Clason (29:28):
Capturing, capturing

Derry Prenkert (29:30):
The memories

Nick Clason (29:30):
Of

Derry Prenkert (29:31):
It all. And that's bigger than ever, right? Yeah. Because they can do that. And so making sure that that's there, and then making all those photos and videos available as soon as you possibly can. Um, and I, I noticed that, um, the, a camp I was at this summer there, the photographer was actually uploading those, um, to their social media platform, like with a link while the camp was there, even though the kids didn't have phones, so that as soon as they got home within like one hour, the kids were like posting their, you know, their real, their reels that recaps, like that's good. Building up all the stuff on the, That's really good. So I think that's a big one. And then two is think through your strategic feedback loop to parents. The parent freakout is, I don't, I, how do I know? Well mm-hmm.

Derry Prenkert (30:14):
, if you have a, a way of saying, Hey, here's, here's where you can go, um, whether it's a Facebook page or group, or if it's your Instagram, or if it's even like a, a remind, uh, setup or whatever, texting, like, here's where it's at. We found that Facebook lives where you could at a camp mm-hmm. , um, actually doing a, Hey, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go live at this time. I'm actually gonna give you a little glimpse into the session just for a short bit so you can just see what's going on and then come back and update you. And the beauty of a Facebook Live, every parent is still on Facebook, uh, for the most part. So they, they, they're there and so they can jump on live and then you can let it sit there. So, um, but those two things will, will go a long way in helping the resistance you might get. Um, when it comes to the no phone

Nick Clason (31:00):
Rule. Yeah. We, we, we do, we've done like a photographer and my, my favorite, and it always depends on like if the church or I have the budget to pull this off, but like get a videographer as well, or the same person, um, and have them do a daily, like, recap video. Those are great for opening your like sessions, but they're also amazing to throw up on YouTube and then text a link out. And so, you know, parents who, uh, send their kids without phone or whatever, they feel this like sense of relief if like they see their kid. Absolutely. Then the downside is one, one time I had to, uh, remove a clip because a kid was like picking his nose and the mom like, wanted it out. Yeah. Um, and then another time ano a mom was like, I haven't seen my kid in any of the recap bees. Yeah. And I'm trying not to freak out, but like, are they having fun? Like, are they making friends? Like, and I get it, like as a, as a dad myself, you know, now, like I would also want to try and like lay eyes on my kids. So

Derry Prenkert (32:01):
Totally same. Totally same. Actually Gabe, the pastor at the church that I'm serving with now, he did a meal time at camp and he just said, Okay, who needs to see their kid Facebook Live, , who needs to see their kid? And he just went around and said, funny. And he put up the phone, he said, Tell your mom you're okay. And, and it was like one of the most viewed Yeah. There are a lot of people there, so Yeah. And that is legit. And it's, you gotta be ready for it for that whole world. And, um, it is, that is evidence again, of the different world. And, and as a parent of a high schooler and a middle schooler, I wasn't at the high school camp. I was at the middle school camp. I was watching for my kid. Yeah.

Derry Prenkert (32:38):
That I didn't quite quite realize. So.

Nick Clason (32:40):
All right. Last, last thing. Um, how can we, as pastors, people in ministry, what are ways there that you see that we can optimize technology, um, now Cause like the overall mission, right? Of the church mm-hmm. to make disciples. And Paul used, you know, the thing available to him writing letters at the time to reach churches that he was not near. So what are some ways, just maybe a couple ideas off the top of your head that you have seen effective or ideas that maybe you haven't seen totally fleshed out, but are ruminating inside. Like Yeah. Where we can use what is available to us in technology. I mean, even the fact that I'm sitting in Texas here in northern Indiana and we're having this conversation and we're seeing each other, like, that's an advantage that wasn't available to us pre 2007. Right. And so, uh, what are some of those things maybe that you have seen or have thought about that we can use to our advantage to help kids take steps closer to Jesus?

Derry Prenkert (33:40):
Yeah. Let me throw you a little bit of a curve on where I might go with this to start only, um, in that I've been a part of large to very large churches mm-hmm. , and you've been a part of larger churches where there's a budget that's available and mass communication through technology. And so our minds might immediately go to Yeah. Podcasts and video streams mm-hmm. and, uh, you know, Instagram and getting somehow in with you version so you can build up a Bible reading plan. And I Yes. Yeah.

Nick Clason (34:10):
But I would it if you can

Derry Prenkert (34:11):
Yeah. I would say pastors and ministers to remember to that this is an incredible one to one ministry tool still mm-hmm. . And so, um, and, and this has gotten especially big to me as I've shifted over into this world now where my primary job that I says God's called me to is just to pastor pastors, especially those that are youth pastors. Well, they're all over the nation. Yeah. And so, um, last night, Sunday night for me, I'm recognizing I was just like, Lord, who are the people right now that might just kind of be in that spot that a word of encouragement or a check-in could go a long way? And there were, there were four texts that were sent out to individuals going, Hey, you're on my mind. How did today go? Or what's going on in your mind? Woke up this morning and like I already told you about, there was one guy that is first day he shifted from the education world to the church world.

Derry Prenkert (35:03):
Hmm. And so, um, so I, I would just start by saying yes, I mean, as we think about the massive ways to do it, let's not forget that pastoring at its best that's good is a one to one, a one to three relationship mm-hmm. . And so, uh, connecting with our parishioners are people that we're discipling, whoever they might be, uh, through the phone and doing it healthily and thinking through safeguards and all those things are really important, especially for youth pastors. Um, which probably is a whole other episode to talk through at some point. . Yeah. But, um, but to understand like, this is a ministry tool at its core. And so a a properly placed text, phone call, FaceTime, um, like, or comment on a, um, on a, on a post, uh, can is, is ministry, like, is deep ministry and meaningful ministry at times.

Derry Prenkert (35:53):
Mm-hmm. . Um, That's great. It was interesting Nick, uh, my former youth pastor, uh, my dad died 10, uh, 13 years ago now, and my former youth minister is no longer in youth ministry. And, but it was an incredible influence on my life. Mm-hmm. . And it was about, uh, it was, it was right around eight years after my dad had died, I posted just a memory of him and below in the comment section, my old youth pastor got on and he, all he wrote was, I'm so proud of you Derry. And I read that and I lost it. And, and I talked to him and, and what happened in that moment was like, I realized, uh, can, like, thank you. I miss I miss having my dad, and I'm not, I don't have a dad that can physically say to me, I'm proud of you anymore.

Derry Prenkert (36:39):
And I'm, I'm like a 36 year old man, like blubbering over my youth pastor telling me he's proud of me. But it's because he, he, in that moment, he ministered to me through a simple comment on a Facebook group mm-hmm. that also helped me work through some grieving that I was at. I hadn't really just walked through and said, God, I'm kind of ticked, I'm kind of ticked right now because I've lost, like, why did this happen? And, and it helped me kind of break through to a new level. And so, so anyway, like just, I, I, that's the one thing I would just say is as we think through the strategic and the greater stuff, let's not forget this is a incredible tool for the most effective ministry that is relational and personal in nature. That's good. That's good. Um, um, I would say otherwise though too is, um, I have a good friend, John McAllen, Johnny Mack, he did this thing, he started, it was called Echo Ministry.

Derry Prenkert (37:25):
And the idea was how do you take and create echos of what's happening on the, on the weekend? How do you have the message echo through the rest of the week? And our technology, our cell phones are such a primary tool to make that happen. You said it so well, there are things that we can do now because we have these, um, where it can show up in the moment, in, in different ways, uh, whether it's, uh, uh, a thinking through, uh, devotional journey, like I said, through you version. Mm-hmm. , uh, uh, the youth group that I just was at for the last couple of years, they're doing a thing called sale up Moments every week. They have just one moment that, that where they, they use on social media where they say, Okay, you're scrolling through, but stop, exhale, um, and listen to God allow 'em to speak to you.

Derry Prenkert (38:16):
You know? And there's a whole acronym to it. I can't remember what the H was good. Yeah. I like that. You know, have a burger, I think was the last, no, I can't remember what the H was, but, um, they, they, they walked through it and, and so using that was, um, was, was a way to do it. So I, I think it's that matter of how can we echo it mm-hmm. . And there's a lot, you know, podcasts can be a part of it. Uh, I started something called Digging Deeper with our main services when I was, uh, at my own church. And, and what we did was every Wednesday I would sit down with whoever was preaching mm-hmm. . And if I, I, I was a part of the teaching time. If I was preaching, somebody else would come in and the first thing we'd say, Hey, hey, what hit the cutting room floor?

Derry Prenkert (38:53):
What were you not able to get to this weekend that you wish you could have? And people just love that aspect, but then we would pick it part a little bit more mm-hmm. . And so, and it, it's not hard. It's a, you know, get, get a little basic, um, Yeah. Recording set up and you can get it set up pretty easy. Um, and so there's just so many ways, but I would just start with the, like, how can we echo into the week, what happened on the weekend Yep. And use it on a digital format.

Nick Clason (39:16):
Yeah. No, that's good. I, I also personally think that we don't know yet like, the answer to some of these questions. Yeah. Like, I still think that there's, uh, things yet to be discovered, you know, in front of us. And so I think, uh, if there's any sort of like, challenge for anyone listening, I would just say like, just do something. Um, and you may stumble upon something great. You may find some stuff that's terrible and you need to cut it out. Um, but if you're, if you're always looking that direction, uh, you'll, you'll stumble upon something good that you maybe don't even know, or you maybe didn't, you know, you maybe weren't even able to see it right now when you started it because of a limited technology or budget or whatever. And so just be looking for ways. Cuz like I said, it's less, I think, I personally think it's easy to make digital about being flashy, um, or whatever, looking good to parents or other youth pastors or other people in ministry, whatever.

Nick Clason (40:15):
But I think it's far less about that for me at least, and it's more about how effective can I be in spreading the message of Jesus with all the tools that he's given to me. Yeah. Like, I'm, I'm alive in 2022 with access to podcast microphones and phones that can take incredible videos and pictures, like mm-hmm. , how am I going to use steward those things to reach the most amount of people, you know, that have an audience to reach. So I think that's, that would be my challenge to whoever's listening is think what Dare said, think through all the things that, with intentionality, Um, and then just be open, you know, to, to utilizing some stuff.

Derry Prenkert (40:52):
So yeah. You're, you're so right on. We don't have it all figured out. Probably one of my greatest pet peeves in life are, uh, those that are convinced they have it all figured out. Um, Yeah. and I, I, I can do that at times. And usually when I'm at that point and I'm like, Oh yeah, I know how to do this. Mm-hmm. , that's the moment when I will fall flat on my face. And so, so there's a ton to be learned. There's a ton to be determined I love, or

Nick Clason (41:14):
That's when a new iPhone comes out, Right. And you're like, Oh, this changed everything. Or Covid hit and this changed everything. So yes. Totally. Good. Yes. I think we're living through that. Well, hey man. Um, anything else off top of your head? You don't have to, but I just wanna make sure you said everything you wanted to say. Didn't leave anything unsaid.

Derry Prenkert (41:30):
I think the only thing I would maybe end with is in that same vein is, um, it's everywhere. It's so much. Uh, also don't be afraid to not feel like you have to do everything, you know? Um, uh, especially to the minister that's trying to think through how to do effectively. There is a, there is a moment where less is more because your soul needs to rest, you know? Mm-hmm. , if you're finding yourself trying to, uh, late at night when you should be being around your family, invest your family or on your day off going, this is the time while Ill dive into all this digital stuff. Eh, you know what, maybe, maybe that's, uh, not worth it. No, not, maybe it definitely is not worth it. Definitely not worth, There's just, that's the part of like this thing, there's just so much out there. Mm-hmm. don't, I, I I guess it's like that idea of don't gain the digital world at the cost of your soul. Yeah. good is, is, is a big thing. And I just, I say that out of a season where I'm just seeing so many of us burn out. Um, and we're burning out in a lot of different ways, but one is because we're just constantly on and we don't hit the off switch. That's

Nick Clason (42:34):
Good. That's good. Love it, man. Well, hey, thanks again. Uh, you referenced a couple things in here. I'll toss 'em in show notes, like your resource on D ym so that all tens of our listeners can go get it. There you go. Um, anyway, thanks for hanging out man. And uh, absolutely. We'll chat again. Chat again. Yeah. Awesome.

Nick Clason (42:52):
Well, wasn't that great, Uh, super thoughtful, super helpful. Um, I hope that you found this interesting and helpful as well. Hey, um, we are online on Twitter at Hybrid Ministry. Would love to have you come hang out, follow us over there. Um, we're still growing, not super active yet, but, uh, we're well on our way. And also everything you need, show notes, links, transcripts, all kinds of stuff. You can find out hybrid ministry.xyz along with a now growing bank of archive and older episodes. So if you're just not stumbling upon us, we'd love to have you go back and check it out. Uh, you can do all of that at hybridministry.xyz Ze. Again, thanks for being with us today and we'll chat next time.

]]> Episode 015: Why We Do What We Do In Churches in 2022? https://www.hybridministry.xyz/015 58d1f131-3858-4262-8f4a-7f0e9796ccdb Thu, 27 Oct 2022 04:00:00 -0500 Nick Clason 015 Why We Do What We Do In Churches in 2022? full Nick Clason In this episode, Nick recounts some of his most recent experiences, and pokes the question at: "Why are we doing, what we're doing in churches?" If our ultimate aim is disciple-making (Mt 28) then is the method we're operating in a church the most effective form of doing that? 21:40 no SUMMARY In this episode, Nick recounts some of his most recent experiences, and pokes the question at: "Why are we doing, what we're doing in churches?" If our ultimate aim is disciple-making (Mt 28) then is the method we're operating in a church the most effective form of doing that? Follow us on Twitter at http://www.twitter.com/hybridministry Or online at http://www.hybridministry.xyz TRANSCRIPT Nick Clason (00:00): What is up everybody. And welcome back to another episode of the Hybrid Ministry Podcast. On today's episode, I just wanted to have a quick conversation, a brain dump, if you will, about why we do what we do as Christians in church. And you know what I mean by that is there's a lot of moving parts in any organization if you're running a business or if you're an accountant or if you run a plumbing company or whatever, right? There's logistics, there's email, there's it, there's booking, there's scheduling, there's accounting, there's marketing, there's branding and color schemes and merchandising and content creation and social media. I mean, there's a million layers to everything, and the church is not exempt from that. And so what I wanna do, like I said, give just a quick little brain dump here. This is something that's been swirling around in my brain. Nick Clason (01:09): I am your host, Nick Clason. If you and I have not had a chance to meet, so excited that you're jumping on this, uh, podcast with me today. Um, I, we, we, we, uh, have this podcast, the Hybrid Ministry Podcast, because we are attempting to live life out in a hybrid sort of way. We don't live in a physical only world anymore, but we don't live in a digital only world either. How do we marry those two things together? And how do we create a hybrid sort of experience, uh, for the people that we're trying to reach? Because, you know, me, my story, like I'm a pastor, and so I've been called by God to reach people, make disciples, um, and share with them the mi, the mission, message, and hope found only in Jesus. And so how do we do that? And so for, you know, the majority of our lifetime, uh, we've done that through the local body, um, of the church. Nick Clason (02:03): And I believe that that's, that's a theological, um, understanding of what we have going on, right? Like the theological implications, Hebrew chapter 10, verse 24 and 25, Let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds. Not giving up meeting together is somewhere in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another in all the more, as you see the day approaching, it's a biblical mandate for us to do life together. And by no means am I proposing that we don't do that. Um, so like I said, I'm a pastor, um, specifically I'm a youth pastor, uh, work in the Dallas, Texas area. And I just started a new job, started a new job, um, at, uh, going on two months now at this point. But the first month was, uh, remote and traveling back and forth between Dallas and Chicago, where I, I lived before. Nick Clason (02:56): And so, yeah, I really only feel like I've been here like 20 something days or whatever since, you know, since I was able to kind of get in here full time and get things going. So, you know, one of the, and, and listen, before I jump into this, this could feel like a slight or a, you know, a dig at the church I'm at, or the churches that I've been in in my lifetime. And the fact is I'm very thankful for every single opportunity that I've been given. Um, I see how every, uh, stop in my journey, in my career, uh, has led me to a very specific spot in my life and how God has orchestrated, um, and paved those ways. And so, you know, there's some, uh, there's some jobs that I've had, you know, that, that have some hurt. Um, and there's definitely like some moments in my life and in my ministry career that, um, I've, you know, I've struggled with or whatever. Nick Clason (04:01): Um, but I'm thankful for each and every stop along the way. I'm thankful for what I've learned at each and every stop along the way, um, and how the Lord has used that to grow me and give me just a, a perspective. And so I say all that to say what I'm about to say. Uh, like I said, may seem like I'm poking holes, like I'm digging, like I'm frustrated and I want as much as I can to preface that and say, I'm really, I'm not okay, especially if you're my boss or HR person and you're signing my paycheck, very appreciative for the job that you've given me. But what I've most recently, especially in this most recent onboarding, and so where I work now, I'm thrilled. I love my job. I love what I do. Um, I love, you know, they believe in me and they're giving me opportunities to go out and run and innovate and try some stuff. Nick Clason (04:57): And so for that, I'm incredibly thankful. Um, however, a lot of this stuff is popping up in my brain because of the fact that I'm starting somewhere new. And so, while I'm incredibly thankful what I'm about to say when I'm about to kind of like, um, I dunno, shine a light on, if you will, may seem like I'm aiming it at the church that I'm currently employed at. And by no means am I trying to, like I said, shine a light and be frustrated, whatever. So I think of caveat of that enough, it's been like two minutes of caveat, so you're probably ready to hear what I'm about to say. So in the whole onboarding process, um, actually, lemme see if I can pull it up. Um, in my email, when I first started, I got, um, information on how to set up, uh, my account for our church database, church management software. Nick Clason (05:54): Um, I also got information on all my benefits, which obviously I need that, and I'm grateful for, and I'm thankful for, right? Um, let's see, what else do I, I got, I got information on, uh, how to join, like the staff, um, info portal, like, um, it's called leader, Uh, you know, so it's like that plus like, uh, what's, you know, uh, development and stuff like that. Um, email, um, expenses, a couple of different portals for expenses. Um, and then our request, uh, system, which is like requests and calendars, maintenance things. Um, and I'm trying to think what else. Oh, there's, then there's task management software, um, that I had to learn. Then there's keys and there's fobs, uh, to get into doors. And then there's meetings with like department heads, you know, so like, um, how do we, in our, like I'm a youth pastor, so how do we, um, interact with the tech team? Nick Clason (06:57): How do we interact with the worship team? How do we interact with the creative team? How do we interact with the communications team and how do we interact with the facilities team? Um, a lot of the answers to that fall under the systems and like portals that I just listed out. Um, however, there's another like meeting to just sort of like a get to know people and then be like, um, kind of hash it out, chat it out, right? And so I, again, I say all that to say like, there's a lot of focus on those things. And as a pastor, um, Jesus committed all of his disciples, including pastors, to go make disciples, make more disciples of all nations, baptizing them, teaching them, commanding them. Any promise that he'll be with us, promise us his presence. I'll be with you always to the very end of the age. Nick Clason (07:53): It's Matthew, uh, 28, 18 through 20. So I, I think, again, caveat, love, love my job. I think anyone that you're like questioning, like, why do we need this? Why do we, that this, the other thing, Well, those processes help make us more efficient so that we can, um, not waste time on details and tasks, and those things don't get dropped. And so then thus, therefore, we can be more effective and freed up to make disciples great. I mean, I agree with that. I agree with that on paper. Okay. And then, um, you know, you think about, think about like, what do we do as the church, right? So if I sit down, I'm like, Hey, I need to understand what my role as a youth pastor is in relation to worship, in relation to tech, in relation to facilities, right? Like, what does that, why, why is all that important? Nick Clason (08:57): Well, because I'm gonna be using the building. So we need the sound, the lights, the worship, the music, the facility to be ready, set up for a, you know, for what? For our event. Well, what's the purpose of our event? Well, that's to make disciples, right? It's really easy. And Ayanna, I can't remember who coined this term, you know, but I'm sure you've heard it before, right? There's, there's the tyranny of the urgent, right? There's always something more urgent, pressing. Like right now, I'm looking at my computer and I have one big red, uh, bubble on my email saying I have an unread email. And my human inclination, in fact, like computer companies, software companies, like they, they build it this way to give it like this, like, you know, urgency type of thing. So it's like, Oh, I gotta check that notification, right? That's, that's always the case. Nick Clason (09:55): We're always looking to figure out like, what is the most important thing? What do we need to handle most? And so in my church, we meet on Wednesday nights, we also meet on Sunday mornings. And so, and that's, I've had that rhythm before. Uh, but I, I'm most recently came from a church before this where we only had like one week worth of, uh, one thing per week of stu student ministry programming. So Wednesday and Sunday, like, that's, that's rapid to me. Like, it, it feels like much more, uh, much more frenetic of a pace. Frenetic is the wrong word, but like, the frequency is just doubled, right? It's from one time a week to not two times a week, Sunday, Wednesday, Sunday, Wednesday. And those gaps are shorter. And so to get my things done in between those two are quicker. And so, like I said, I'm always turning around and finding myself like, Oh, you know, I'm recording this on a Tuesday night, tomorrow morning, uh, is Wednesday, I'll be at church all day long. Nick Clason (10:51): And then, because I'm at church all day long on Wednesday, um, I will work most of my day on Thursday and be off on Friday. I gotta get everything between, you know, tomorrow and Thursday ready and locked and loaded for Sunday. And I may in fact get some stuff ready and locked and loaded for Sunday, tomorrow, on Wednesday before I ever even, uh, you know, host the next event. I'm two events ahead, right? And that's, if I'm really, you know, most people say, Oh, it's if you're really well planned and that's, you're really on top of things. And, and I like to think I am. However, that there, you know, there's always, like, you always work best under pressure. Um, there's actually like a psychological term of that called like forced focus. And so if you're forced to focus, like as you're zeroing in on an event, no matter how good, and well you are planned out, like, you'll come up with something, you're like, Shoot, it was a good idea. Nick Clason (11:47): I should have done that. You know, So anyway, all that right? Aha. That to be said, What, why are we doing church? Like, we're not in the event business, but we are a little bit, right? And here's why. This is a hybrid conversation because, uh, 10, even 10 years ago, maybe like 20 at the most, right? The way to gather together in the way to disseminate, uh, information, theological information, with the exception of the Bible in like print pieces, using printing press, books, magazines, whatever, newspaper articles, like the only way to distribute that information was through the local church. And so thus, the regular gathering was really important because you'd come together and maybe the church would have access to these print pieces of these magazines. They'd get 'em in bulk or whatever, and they'd provide them for their parishioners, their congregation members. But now, since the advent of the internet, all that stuff is available to people. Nick Clason (12:51): And so the novelty of church or the uniqueness that it brought, it, it almost feels like it's not there as much. And then again, what are we doing? Like, we're making disciples through the context of hosting events. And I, I, I, I think events matter, and I think they're important. Um, you know, but like, like I, I told you a couple episodes ago, go back and listen to it where I said, Hey, here's what we're, you know, trying to do on social media or whatever, Um, trying to launch some stuff. I just pulled TikTok open on my account, and that's why you heard some background noise on that. Um, and I'm gonna do it again right here, but, um, listen, like I, we posted a like sermon, uh, recap deal, um, couple weeks ago, and I had a 437 views on, on one of those, right? Nick Clason (13:49): That's one of my higher ones. That's, that's, you know, better than most. But here's the thing that's kind of crazy. Think about like, when I gather all my students together, um, I have like a hundred, a hundred students, and that's, that's good, right? That's, that's pretty big. Um, some, you know, somewhere between 102 hundred students all together, if everyone showed up, you, if you're a youth pastor, you know how this goes, right? And so, uh, what's more advantageous? Well, I know, I know the students in my room, so I have a captive audience. I'm able to disciple them a little bit better. I'm able to craft the message, um, so that they hear what, you know, maybe they need to hear whatever they're like struggling with or through. However, like the reach on TikTok is like five times that with that one video. You know, some videos are smaller, like, you know, the most recent one I think had like 19. Nick Clason (14:44): So it's, it's obviously a lot, a lot smaller. And, uh, TikTok is less about who you follow and more about being, being discovered. And so, um, what is the next step for those audience members and all that stuff. All all that being said, like I know I find myself being challenged to be a disciple maker, be a dis be a disciple myself, of Jesus, and out of the overflow of that, make more and better disciples of him. And the, the context or the fabric, which with which at least the majority of the time of my job is soaked into, is through executing and, um, planning events, maintaining a physical facility, and, you know, worrying about branding, messaging, signage, like all those ancillary pieces. And you know, when it's all said and done, like officially on my, like, I don't, I don't have a time sheet, I'm salaried, right? Nick Clason (15:53): But if I did like on my time sheet, like Sunday mornings with students is probably like two hours. And then Wednesday nights with students is another like two hours. And if I'm like a really good youth pastor and I'm like getting coffee or going to football games, let's say that's another like two to four hours. Like in my 40 hour week, I spend eight, eight hours a great week, maybe 10 hours if I'm like super over the top, like really on it with actual teenagers. And like, I get it, right? Like in Ephesians, Paul said, Equipped the saints for works and acts of service. And like you heard, to have a hundred, a hundred plus kids, like, and we have small group leaders that, you know, it's, it's technically their job on our, in our pipeline to like, make that happen. But like, call to make disciples. Nick Clason (16:45): And so again, I say all this to say like, I'm not disgruntled, not angry. I love my church. And quite frankly, like I'm here because I'm so passionate about this hybrid stuff and in marrying like the digital with the physical, not because I love digital so much, cuz I really don't, but because I think that, well, I know that there's 167 other hours a week that the one hour a week that kids are sitting in our service, in my church I have too. So 166 hours in addition in a student's life, what am I doing then? How am I reaching a student where they are? How are they learning, growing, developing deeper into the core characters of Christ and doing the things that he challenged them to do? How else are they coming across those things? If it's not just a wins in night when they're in the building with me, or on a Sunday morning when they're in the building with me. Like when else are they being challenged by their youth pastor, by their church to live out their faith, to live out their faith, to learn the knowledge, to understand the things and tenants of the Bible, but Nick Clason (17:48): Also then to carry out that message to their friends, to reach their friends who are far from Jesus, to, to share the message of hope, the gospel with their friends who don't know him, to grow deeper in their relationship, to hone their skills, their character, so that it mirrors more closely like Christ to, to follow what, what his mission was that he laid out. I mean, this is so much more than how do I return in my receipts and how do I learn the softwares in the systems? Like I get it, right? Like at church is an organization. And without those things, you know, it would probably be far less effective. I get it. And you know, it's, it, it, maybe it's just a necessary evil, I don't know. Um, but it's just, it's something that got me thinking, like, you know, sit in a staff meeting today and we're just going over tons and tons of logistics and you know, like I said, I love my job. Nick Clason (18:45): I have a really great job, and they're, they're allowing us to think outside the box and allowing us to break the mold a little bit. And so I'm, I'm really grateful for that. Um, but I just wonder if sometimes church, not just my church, all churches get a sucked into the tyranny of the urgent and b, turn into event makers as opposed to makers of disciples, builders of disciples, crafting, honing the next generation to look and act more like the person of Jesus. Like that's, that was his commission. So if we start with that, if we, if we start with the why, like why do we do this? And is an event the most effective way to do it? Probably, Or at least, at least if it's not, it's, it's a part of a hybrid solution to what the future looks like. And I don't have all the answers. Nick Clason (19:38): And that's you. That's, I think that's why I'm coming across passionate and potentially angry. I'm not angry. I'm really not. I'm just, I, I'm really, I'm right now I'm gonna study provided through my church about 50 days through the life of Christ. It's an amazing study. I've done it before. I'm doing it again, just being reminded about how intentional Jesus was about investing in people living life with his disciples and modeling for them what his ministry model was. And, and then I turn around and I'm, you know, I'm having to like, figure out how to like submit her a seat cuz I've never done it before. Cuz you know, I always had my admin do it. And, uh, she, she recently left and started a new job somewhere else. And so we're looking for one. And you know, I'm like slugging through that a little bit and I'm like, man, I get it. Nick Clason (20:28): Like right. It's necessary. And if anyone, if anyone from where I work hears this, they're gonna like, think I'm just this ungrateful, you know, complaining guy. Like I'm not, I'm really not. I'm just, I'm wrestling with like, what's the most important and how do we, how do we create something to respond to the tyranny of the urgent while not losing ourselves in the making of disciples. And I think that that's, I think every youth pastor, I think every pastor, every person in vocational ministry feels that tension at some point. So if you're in vocational ministry, let me hear it from you. Um, we're in this together and like I said, I love where I work. I don't have all the answers, um, but it's just something that got me thinking today. So I don't know. Listen bro, this is like a stream of consciousness. Like, I don't know if I'm gonna have chapter markers for this at the end of the day. Like this is just me rambling talking for 20 minutes. So if you found a helpful, let me know. Reach out on Twitter at hybrid ministry or, uh, swing by the website, hybridministry.xyz. Uh, and until next time, we'll talk to you later. Peace out my friends. Church, Purpose, Discipleship, Disciple-Making, Jesus, Hybrid, Digital, Ministry, Online Church, Meta Church, Streaming Church SUMMARY
In this episode, Nick recounts some of his most recent experiences, and pokes the question at: "Why are we doing, what we're doing in churches?" If our ultimate aim is disciple-making (Mt 28) then is the method we're operating in a church the most effective form of doing that?

Follow us on Twitter at http://www.twitter.com/hybridministry
Or online at http://www.hybridministry.xyz

TRANSCRIPT
Nick Clason (00:00):
What is up everybody. And welcome back to another episode of the Hybrid Ministry Podcast. On today's episode, I just wanted to have a quick conversation, a brain dump, if you will, about why we do what we do as Christians in church. And you know what I mean by that is there's a lot of moving parts in any organization if you're running a business or if you're an accountant or if you run a plumbing company or whatever, right? There's logistics, there's email, there's it, there's booking, there's scheduling, there's accounting, there's marketing, there's branding and color schemes and merchandising and content creation and social media. I mean, there's a million layers to everything, and the church is not exempt from that. And so what I wanna do, like I said, give just a quick little brain dump here. This is something that's been swirling around in my brain.

Nick Clason (01:09):
I am your host, Nick Clason. If you and I have not had a chance to meet, so excited that you're jumping on this, uh, podcast with me today. Um, I, we, we, we, uh, have this podcast, the Hybrid Ministry Podcast, because we are attempting to live life out in a hybrid sort of way. We don't live in a physical only world anymore, but we don't live in a digital only world either. How do we marry those two things together? And how do we create a hybrid sort of experience, uh, for the people that we're trying to reach? Because, you know, me, my story, like I'm a pastor, and so I've been called by God to reach people, make disciples, um, and share with them the mi, the mission, message, and hope found only in Jesus. And so how do we do that? And so for, you know, the majority of our lifetime, uh, we've done that through the local body, um, of the church.

Nick Clason (02:03):
And I believe that that's, that's a theological, um, understanding of what we have going on, right? Like the theological implications, Hebrew chapter 10, verse 24 and 25, Let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds. Not giving up meeting together is somewhere in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another in all the more, as you see the day approaching, it's a biblical mandate for us to do life together. And by no means am I proposing that we don't do that. Um, so like I said, I'm a pastor, um, specifically I'm a youth pastor, uh, work in the Dallas, Texas area. And I just started a new job, started a new job, um, at, uh, going on two months now at this point. But the first month was, uh, remote and traveling back and forth between Dallas and Chicago, where I, I lived before.

Nick Clason (02:56):
And so, yeah, I really only feel like I've been here like 20 something days or whatever since, you know, since I was able to kind of get in here full time and get things going. So, you know, one of the, and, and listen, before I jump into this, this could feel like a slight or a, you know, a dig at the church I'm at, or the churches that I've been in in my lifetime. And the fact is I'm very thankful for every single opportunity that I've been given. Um, I see how every, uh, stop in my journey, in my career, uh, has led me to a very specific spot in my life and how God has orchestrated, um, and paved those ways. And so, you know, there's some, uh, there's some jobs that I've had, you know, that, that have some hurt. Um, and there's definitely like some moments in my life and in my ministry career that, um, I've, you know, I've struggled with or whatever.

Nick Clason (04:01):
Um, but I'm thankful for each and every stop along the way. I'm thankful for what I've learned at each and every stop along the way, um, and how the Lord has used that to grow me and give me just a, a perspective. And so I say all that to say what I'm about to say. Uh, like I said, may seem like I'm poking holes, like I'm digging, like I'm frustrated and I want as much as I can to preface that and say, I'm really, I'm not okay, especially if you're my boss or HR person and you're signing my paycheck, very appreciative for the job that you've given me. But what I've most recently, especially in this most recent onboarding, and so where I work now, I'm thrilled. I love my job. I love what I do. Um, I love, you know, they believe in me and they're giving me opportunities to go out and run and innovate and try some stuff.

Nick Clason (04:57):
And so for that, I'm incredibly thankful. Um, however, a lot of this stuff is popping up in my brain because of the fact that I'm starting somewhere new. And so, while I'm incredibly thankful what I'm about to say when I'm about to kind of like, um, I dunno, shine a light on, if you will, may seem like I'm aiming it at the church that I'm currently employed at. And by no means am I trying to, like I said, shine a light and be frustrated, whatever. So I think of caveat of that enough, it's been like two minutes of caveat, so you're probably ready to hear what I'm about to say. So in the whole onboarding process, um, actually, lemme see if I can pull it up. Um, in my email, when I first started, I got, um, information on how to set up, uh, my account for our church database, church management software.

Nick Clason (05:54):
Um, I also got information on all my benefits, which obviously I need that, and I'm grateful for, and I'm thankful for, right? Um, let's see, what else do I, I got, I got information on, uh, how to join, like the staff, um, info portal, like, um, it's called leader, Uh, you know, so it's like that plus like, uh, what's, you know, uh, development and stuff like that. Um, email, um, expenses, a couple of different portals for expenses. Um, and then our request, uh, system, which is like requests and calendars, maintenance things. Um, and I'm trying to think what else. Oh, there's, then there's task management software, um, that I had to learn. Then there's keys and there's fobs, uh, to get into doors. And then there's meetings with like department heads, you know, so like, um, how do we, in our, like I'm a youth pastor, so how do we, um, interact with the tech team?

Nick Clason (06:57):
How do we interact with the worship team? How do we interact with the creative team? How do we interact with the communications team and how do we interact with the facilities team? Um, a lot of the answers to that fall under the systems and like portals that I just listed out. Um, however, there's another like meeting to just sort of like a get to know people and then be like, um, kind of hash it out, chat it out, right? And so I, again, I say all that to say like, there's a lot of focus on those things. And as a pastor, um, Jesus committed all of his disciples, including pastors, to go make disciples, make more disciples of all nations, baptizing them, teaching them, commanding them. Any promise that he'll be with us, promise us his presence. I'll be with you always to the very end of the age.

Nick Clason (07:53):
It's Matthew, uh, 28, 18 through 20. So I, I think, again, caveat, love, love my job. I think anyone that you're like questioning, like, why do we need this? Why do we, that this, the other thing, Well, those processes help make us more efficient so that we can, um, not waste time on details and tasks, and those things don't get dropped. And so then thus, therefore, we can be more effective and freed up to make disciples great. I mean, I agree with that. I agree with that on paper. Okay. And then, um, you know, you think about, think about like, what do we do as the church, right? So if I sit down, I'm like, Hey, I need to understand what my role as a youth pastor is in relation to worship, in relation to tech, in relation to facilities, right? Like, what does that, why, why is all that important?

Nick Clason (08:57):
Well, because I'm gonna be using the building. So we need the sound, the lights, the worship, the music, the facility to be ready, set up for a, you know, for what? For our event. Well, what's the purpose of our event? Well, that's to make disciples, right? It's really easy. And Ayanna, I can't remember who coined this term, you know, but I'm sure you've heard it before, right? There's, there's the tyranny of the urgent, right? There's always something more urgent, pressing. Like right now, I'm looking at my computer and I have one big red, uh, bubble on my email saying I have an unread email. And my human inclination, in fact, like computer companies, software companies, like they, they build it this way to give it like this, like, you know, urgency type of thing. So it's like, Oh, I gotta check that notification, right? That's, that's always the case.

Nick Clason (09:55):
We're always looking to figure out like, what is the most important thing? What do we need to handle most? And so in my church, we meet on Wednesday nights, we also meet on Sunday mornings. And so, and that's, I've had that rhythm before. Uh, but I, I'm most recently came from a church before this where we only had like one week worth of, uh, one thing per week of stu student ministry programming. So Wednesday and Sunday, like, that's, that's rapid to me. Like, it, it feels like much more, uh, much more frenetic of a pace. Frenetic is the wrong word, but like, the frequency is just doubled, right? It's from one time a week to not two times a week, Sunday, Wednesday, Sunday, Wednesday. And those gaps are shorter. And so to get my things done in between those two are quicker. And so, like I said, I'm always turning around and finding myself like, Oh, you know, I'm recording this on a Tuesday night, tomorrow morning, uh, is Wednesday, I'll be at church all day long.

Nick Clason (10:51):
And then, because I'm at church all day long on Wednesday, um, I will work most of my day on Thursday and be off on Friday. I gotta get everything between, you know, tomorrow and Thursday ready and locked and loaded for Sunday. And I may in fact get some stuff ready and locked and loaded for Sunday, tomorrow, on Wednesday before I ever even, uh, you know, host the next event. I'm two events ahead, right? And that's, if I'm really, you know, most people say, Oh, it's if you're really well planned and that's, you're really on top of things. And, and I like to think I am. However, that there, you know, there's always, like, you always work best under pressure. Um, there's actually like a psychological term of that called like forced focus. And so if you're forced to focus, like as you're zeroing in on an event, no matter how good, and well you are planned out, like, you'll come up with something, you're like, Shoot, it was a good idea.

Nick Clason (11:47):
I should have done that. You know, So anyway, all that right? Aha. That to be said, What, why are we doing church? Like, we're not in the event business, but we are a little bit, right? And here's why. This is a hybrid conversation because, uh, 10, even 10 years ago, maybe like 20 at the most, right? The way to gather together in the way to disseminate, uh, information, theological information, with the exception of the Bible in like print pieces, using printing press, books, magazines, whatever, newspaper articles, like the only way to distribute that information was through the local church. And so thus, the regular gathering was really important because you'd come together and maybe the church would have access to these print pieces of these magazines. They'd get 'em in bulk or whatever, and they'd provide them for their parishioners, their congregation members. But now, since the advent of the internet, all that stuff is available to people.

Nick Clason (12:51):
And so the novelty of church or the uniqueness that it brought, it, it almost feels like it's not there as much. And then again, what are we doing? Like, we're making disciples through the context of hosting events. And I, I, I, I think events matter, and I think they're important. Um, you know, but like, like I, I told you a couple episodes ago, go back and listen to it where I said, Hey, here's what we're, you know, trying to do on social media or whatever, Um, trying to launch some stuff. I just pulled TikTok open on my account, and that's why you heard some background noise on that. Um, and I'm gonna do it again right here, but, um, listen, like I, we posted a like sermon, uh, recap deal, um, couple weeks ago, and I had a 437 views on, on one of those, right?

Nick Clason (13:49):
That's one of my higher ones. That's, that's, you know, better than most. But here's the thing that's kind of crazy. Think about like, when I gather all my students together, um, I have like a hundred, a hundred students, and that's, that's good, right? That's, that's pretty big. Um, some, you know, somewhere between 102 hundred students all together, if everyone showed up, you, if you're a youth pastor, you know how this goes, right? And so, uh, what's more advantageous? Well, I know, I know the students in my room, so I have a captive audience. I'm able to disciple them a little bit better. I'm able to craft the message, um, so that they hear what, you know, maybe they need to hear whatever they're like struggling with or through. However, like the reach on TikTok is like five times that with that one video. You know, some videos are smaller, like, you know, the most recent one I think had like 19.

Nick Clason (14:44):
So it's, it's obviously a lot, a lot smaller. And, uh, TikTok is less about who you follow and more about being, being discovered. And so, um, what is the next step for those audience members and all that stuff. All all that being said, like I know I find myself being challenged to be a disciple maker, be a dis be a disciple myself, of Jesus, and out of the overflow of that, make more and better disciples of him. And the, the context or the fabric, which with which at least the majority of the time of my job is soaked into, is through executing and, um, planning events, maintaining a physical facility, and, you know, worrying about branding, messaging, signage, like all those ancillary pieces. And you know, when it's all said and done, like officially on my, like, I don't, I don't have a time sheet, I'm salaried, right?

Nick Clason (15:53):
But if I did like on my time sheet, like Sunday mornings with students is probably like two hours. And then Wednesday nights with students is another like two hours. And if I'm like a really good youth pastor and I'm like getting coffee or going to football games, let's say that's another like two to four hours. Like in my 40 hour week, I spend eight, eight hours a great week, maybe 10 hours if I'm like super over the top, like really on it with actual teenagers. And like, I get it, right? Like in Ephesians, Paul said, Equipped the saints for works and acts of service. And like you heard, to have a hundred, a hundred plus kids, like, and we have small group leaders that, you know, it's, it's technically their job on our, in our pipeline to like, make that happen. But like, call to make disciples.

Nick Clason (16:45):
And so again, I say all this to say like, I'm not disgruntled, not angry. I love my church. And quite frankly, like I'm here because I'm so passionate about this hybrid stuff and in marrying like the digital with the physical, not because I love digital so much, cuz I really don't, but because I think that, well, I know that there's 167 other hours a week that the one hour a week that kids are sitting in our service, in my church I have too. So 166 hours in addition in a student's life, what am I doing then? How am I reaching a student where they are? How are they learning, growing, developing deeper into the core characters of Christ and doing the things that he challenged them to do? How else are they coming across those things? If it's not just a wins in night when they're in the building with me, or on a Sunday morning when they're in the building with me. Like when else are they being challenged by their youth pastor, by their church to live out their faith, to live out their faith, to learn the knowledge, to understand the things and tenants of the Bible, but

Nick Clason (17:48):
Also then to carry out that message to their friends, to reach their friends who are far from Jesus, to, to share the message of hope, the gospel with their friends who don't know him, to grow deeper in their relationship, to hone their skills, their character, so that it mirrors more closely like Christ to, to follow what, what his mission was that he laid out. I mean, this is so much more than how do I return in my receipts and how do I learn the softwares in the systems? Like I get it, right? Like at church is an organization. And without those things, you know, it would probably be far less effective. I get it. And you know, it's, it, it, maybe it's just a necessary evil, I don't know. Um, but it's just, it's something that got me thinking, like, you know, sit in a staff meeting today and we're just going over tons and tons of logistics and you know, like I said, I love my job.

Nick Clason (18:45):
I have a really great job, and they're, they're allowing us to think outside the box and allowing us to break the mold a little bit. And so I'm, I'm really grateful for that. Um, but I just wonder if sometimes church, not just my church, all churches get a sucked into the tyranny of the urgent and b, turn into event makers as opposed to makers of disciples, builders of disciples, crafting, honing the next generation to look and act more like the person of Jesus. Like that's, that was his commission. So if we start with that, if we, if we start with the why, like why do we do this? And is an event the most effective way to do it? Probably, Or at least, at least if it's not, it's, it's a part of a hybrid solution to what the future looks like. And I don't have all the answers.

Nick Clason (19:38):
And that's you. That's, I think that's why I'm coming across passionate and potentially angry. I'm not angry. I'm really not. I'm just, I, I'm really, I'm right now I'm gonna study provided through my church about 50 days through the life of Christ. It's an amazing study. I've done it before. I'm doing it again, just being reminded about how intentional Jesus was about investing in people living life with his disciples and modeling for them what his ministry model was. And, and then I turn around and I'm, you know, I'm having to like, figure out how to like submit her a seat cuz I've never done it before. Cuz you know, I always had my admin do it. And, uh, she, she recently left and started a new job somewhere else. And so we're looking for one. And you know, I'm like slugging through that a little bit and I'm like, man, I get it.

Nick Clason (20:28):
Like right. It's necessary. And if anyone, if anyone from where I work hears this, they're gonna like, think I'm just this ungrateful, you know, complaining guy. Like I'm not, I'm really not. I'm just, I'm wrestling with like, what's the most important and how do we, how do we create something to respond to the tyranny of the urgent while not losing ourselves in the making of disciples. And I think that that's, I think every youth pastor, I think every pastor, every person in vocational ministry feels that tension at some point. So if you're in vocational ministry, let me hear it from you. Um, we're in this together and like I said, I love where I work. I don't have all the answers, um, but it's just something that got me thinking today. So I don't know. Listen bro, this is like a stream of consciousness. Like, I don't know if I'm gonna have chapter markers for this at the end of the day. Like this is just me rambling talking for 20 minutes. So if you found a helpful, let me know. Reach out on Twitter at hybrid ministry or, uh, swing by the website, hybridministry.xyz. Uh, and until next time, we'll talk to you later. Peace out my friends.

]]> SUMMARY
In this episode, Nick recounts some of his most recent experiences, and pokes the question at: "Why are we doing, what we're doing in churches?" If our ultimate aim is disciple-making (Mt 28) then is the method we're operating in a church the most effective form of doing that?

Follow us on Twitter at http://www.twitter.com/hybridministry
Or online at http://www.hybridministry.xyz

TRANSCRIPT
Nick Clason (00:00):
What is up everybody. And welcome back to another episode of the Hybrid Ministry Podcast. On today's episode, I just wanted to have a quick conversation, a brain dump, if you will, about why we do what we do as Christians in church. And you know what I mean by that is there's a lot of moving parts in any organization if you're running a business or if you're an accountant or if you run a plumbing company or whatever, right? There's logistics, there's email, there's it, there's booking, there's scheduling, there's accounting, there's marketing, there's branding and color schemes and merchandising and content creation and social media. I mean, there's a million layers to everything, and the church is not exempt from that. And so what I wanna do, like I said, give just a quick little brain dump here. This is something that's been swirling around in my brain.

Nick Clason (01:09):
I am your host, Nick Clason. If you and I have not had a chance to meet, so excited that you're jumping on this, uh, podcast with me today. Um, I, we, we, we, uh, have this podcast, the Hybrid Ministry Podcast, because we are attempting to live life out in a hybrid sort of way. We don't live in a physical only world anymore, but we don't live in a digital only world either. How do we marry those two things together? And how do we create a hybrid sort of experience, uh, for the people that we're trying to reach? Because, you know, me, my story, like I'm a pastor, and so I've been called by God to reach people, make disciples, um, and share with them the mi, the mission, message, and hope found only in Jesus. And so how do we do that? And so for, you know, the majority of our lifetime, uh, we've done that through the local body, um, of the church.

Nick Clason (02:03):
And I believe that that's, that's a theological, um, understanding of what we have going on, right? Like the theological implications, Hebrew chapter 10, verse 24 and 25, Let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds. Not giving up meeting together is somewhere in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another in all the more, as you see the day approaching, it's a biblical mandate for us to do life together. And by no means am I proposing that we don't do that. Um, so like I said, I'm a pastor, um, specifically I'm a youth pastor, uh, work in the Dallas, Texas area. And I just started a new job, started a new job, um, at, uh, going on two months now at this point. But the first month was, uh, remote and traveling back and forth between Dallas and Chicago, where I, I lived before.

Nick Clason (02:56):
And so, yeah, I really only feel like I've been here like 20 something days or whatever since, you know, since I was able to kind of get in here full time and get things going. So, you know, one of the, and, and listen, before I jump into this, this could feel like a slight or a, you know, a dig at the church I'm at, or the churches that I've been in in my lifetime. And the fact is I'm very thankful for every single opportunity that I've been given. Um, I see how every, uh, stop in my journey, in my career, uh, has led me to a very specific spot in my life and how God has orchestrated, um, and paved those ways. And so, you know, there's some, uh, there's some jobs that I've had, you know, that, that have some hurt. Um, and there's definitely like some moments in my life and in my ministry career that, um, I've, you know, I've struggled with or whatever.

Nick Clason (04:01):
Um, but I'm thankful for each and every stop along the way. I'm thankful for what I've learned at each and every stop along the way, um, and how the Lord has used that to grow me and give me just a, a perspective. And so I say all that to say what I'm about to say. Uh, like I said, may seem like I'm poking holes, like I'm digging, like I'm frustrated and I want as much as I can to preface that and say, I'm really, I'm not okay, especially if you're my boss or HR person and you're signing my paycheck, very appreciative for the job that you've given me. But what I've most recently, especially in this most recent onboarding, and so where I work now, I'm thrilled. I love my job. I love what I do. Um, I love, you know, they believe in me and they're giving me opportunities to go out and run and innovate and try some stuff.

Nick Clason (04:57):
And so for that, I'm incredibly thankful. Um, however, a lot of this stuff is popping up in my brain because of the fact that I'm starting somewhere new. And so, while I'm incredibly thankful what I'm about to say when I'm about to kind of like, um, I dunno, shine a light on, if you will, may seem like I'm aiming it at the church that I'm currently employed at. And by no means am I trying to, like I said, shine a light and be frustrated, whatever. So I think of caveat of that enough, it's been like two minutes of caveat, so you're probably ready to hear what I'm about to say. So in the whole onboarding process, um, actually, lemme see if I can pull it up. Um, in my email, when I first started, I got, um, information on how to set up, uh, my account for our church database, church management software.

Nick Clason (05:54):
Um, I also got information on all my benefits, which obviously I need that, and I'm grateful for, and I'm thankful for, right? Um, let's see, what else do I, I got, I got information on, uh, how to join, like the staff, um, info portal, like, um, it's called leader, Uh, you know, so it's like that plus like, uh, what's, you know, uh, development and stuff like that. Um, email, um, expenses, a couple of different portals for expenses. Um, and then our request, uh, system, which is like requests and calendars, maintenance things. Um, and I'm trying to think what else. Oh, there's, then there's task management software, um, that I had to learn. Then there's keys and there's fobs, uh, to get into doors. And then there's meetings with like department heads, you know, so like, um, how do we, in our, like I'm a youth pastor, so how do we, um, interact with the tech team?

Nick Clason (06:57):
How do we interact with the worship team? How do we interact with the creative team? How do we interact with the communications team and how do we interact with the facilities team? Um, a lot of the answers to that fall under the systems and like portals that I just listed out. Um, however, there's another like meeting to just sort of like a get to know people and then be like, um, kind of hash it out, chat it out, right? And so I, again, I say all that to say like, there's a lot of focus on those things. And as a pastor, um, Jesus committed all of his disciples, including pastors, to go make disciples, make more disciples of all nations, baptizing them, teaching them, commanding them. Any promise that he'll be with us, promise us his presence. I'll be with you always to the very end of the age.

Nick Clason (07:53):
It's Matthew, uh, 28, 18 through 20. So I, I think, again, caveat, love, love my job. I think anyone that you're like questioning, like, why do we need this? Why do we, that this, the other thing, Well, those processes help make us more efficient so that we can, um, not waste time on details and tasks, and those things don't get dropped. And so then thus, therefore, we can be more effective and freed up to make disciples great. I mean, I agree with that. I agree with that on paper. Okay. And then, um, you know, you think about, think about like, what do we do as the church, right? So if I sit down, I'm like, Hey, I need to understand what my role as a youth pastor is in relation to worship, in relation to tech, in relation to facilities, right? Like, what does that, why, why is all that important?

Nick Clason (08:57):
Well, because I'm gonna be using the building. So we need the sound, the lights, the worship, the music, the facility to be ready, set up for a, you know, for what? For our event. Well, what's the purpose of our event? Well, that's to make disciples, right? It's really easy. And Ayanna, I can't remember who coined this term, you know, but I'm sure you've heard it before, right? There's, there's the tyranny of the urgent, right? There's always something more urgent, pressing. Like right now, I'm looking at my computer and I have one big red, uh, bubble on my email saying I have an unread email. And my human inclination, in fact, like computer companies, software companies, like they, they build it this way to give it like this, like, you know, urgency type of thing. So it's like, Oh, I gotta check that notification, right? That's, that's always the case.

Nick Clason (09:55):
We're always looking to figure out like, what is the most important thing? What do we need to handle most? And so in my church, we meet on Wednesday nights, we also meet on Sunday mornings. And so, and that's, I've had that rhythm before. Uh, but I, I'm most recently came from a church before this where we only had like one week worth of, uh, one thing per week of stu student ministry programming. So Wednesday and Sunday, like, that's, that's rapid to me. Like, it, it feels like much more, uh, much more frenetic of a pace. Frenetic is the wrong word, but like, the frequency is just doubled, right? It's from one time a week to not two times a week, Sunday, Wednesday, Sunday, Wednesday. And those gaps are shorter. And so to get my things done in between those two are quicker. And so, like I said, I'm always turning around and finding myself like, Oh, you know, I'm recording this on a Tuesday night, tomorrow morning, uh, is Wednesday, I'll be at church all day long.

Nick Clason (10:51):
And then, because I'm at church all day long on Wednesday, um, I will work most of my day on Thursday and be off on Friday. I gotta get everything between, you know, tomorrow and Thursday ready and locked and loaded for Sunday. And I may in fact get some stuff ready and locked and loaded for Sunday, tomorrow, on Wednesday before I ever even, uh, you know, host the next event. I'm two events ahead, right? And that's, if I'm really, you know, most people say, Oh, it's if you're really well planned and that's, you're really on top of things. And, and I like to think I am. However, that there, you know, there's always, like, you always work best under pressure. Um, there's actually like a psychological term of that called like forced focus. And so if you're forced to focus, like as you're zeroing in on an event, no matter how good, and well you are planned out, like, you'll come up with something, you're like, Shoot, it was a good idea.

Nick Clason (11:47):
I should have done that. You know, So anyway, all that right? Aha. That to be said, What, why are we doing church? Like, we're not in the event business, but we are a little bit, right? And here's why. This is a hybrid conversation because, uh, 10, even 10 years ago, maybe like 20 at the most, right? The way to gather together in the way to disseminate, uh, information, theological information, with the exception of the Bible in like print pieces, using printing press, books, magazines, whatever, newspaper articles, like the only way to distribute that information was through the local church. And so thus, the regular gathering was really important because you'd come together and maybe the church would have access to these print pieces of these magazines. They'd get 'em in bulk or whatever, and they'd provide them for their parishioners, their congregation members. But now, since the advent of the internet, all that stuff is available to people.

Nick Clason (12:51):
And so the novelty of church or the uniqueness that it brought, it, it almost feels like it's not there as much. And then again, what are we doing? Like, we're making disciples through the context of hosting events. And I, I, I, I think events matter, and I think they're important. Um, you know, but like, like I, I told you a couple episodes ago, go back and listen to it where I said, Hey, here's what we're, you know, trying to do on social media or whatever, Um, trying to launch some stuff. I just pulled TikTok open on my account, and that's why you heard some background noise on that. Um, and I'm gonna do it again right here, but, um, listen, like I, we posted a like sermon, uh, recap deal, um, couple weeks ago, and I had a 437 views on, on one of those, right?

Nick Clason (13:49):
That's one of my higher ones. That's, that's, you know, better than most. But here's the thing that's kind of crazy. Think about like, when I gather all my students together, um, I have like a hundred, a hundred students, and that's, that's good, right? That's, that's pretty big. Um, some, you know, somewhere between 102 hundred students all together, if everyone showed up, you, if you're a youth pastor, you know how this goes, right? And so, uh, what's more advantageous? Well, I know, I know the students in my room, so I have a captive audience. I'm able to disciple them a little bit better. I'm able to craft the message, um, so that they hear what, you know, maybe they need to hear whatever they're like struggling with or through. However, like the reach on TikTok is like five times that with that one video. You know, some videos are smaller, like, you know, the most recent one I think had like 19.

Nick Clason (14:44):
So it's, it's obviously a lot, a lot smaller. And, uh, TikTok is less about who you follow and more about being, being discovered. And so, um, what is the next step for those audience members and all that stuff. All all that being said, like I know I find myself being challenged to be a disciple maker, be a dis be a disciple myself, of Jesus, and out of the overflow of that, make more and better disciples of him. And the, the context or the fabric, which with which at least the majority of the time of my job is soaked into, is through executing and, um, planning events, maintaining a physical facility, and, you know, worrying about branding, messaging, signage, like all those ancillary pieces. And you know, when it's all said and done, like officially on my, like, I don't, I don't have a time sheet, I'm salaried, right?

Nick Clason (15:53):
But if I did like on my time sheet, like Sunday mornings with students is probably like two hours. And then Wednesday nights with students is another like two hours. And if I'm like a really good youth pastor and I'm like getting coffee or going to football games, let's say that's another like two to four hours. Like in my 40 hour week, I spend eight, eight hours a great week, maybe 10 hours if I'm like super over the top, like really on it with actual teenagers. And like, I get it, right? Like in Ephesians, Paul said, Equipped the saints for works and acts of service. And like you heard, to have a hundred, a hundred plus kids, like, and we have small group leaders that, you know, it's, it's technically their job on our, in our pipeline to like, make that happen. But like, call to make disciples.

Nick Clason (16:45):
And so again, I say all this to say like, I'm not disgruntled, not angry. I love my church. And quite frankly, like I'm here because I'm so passionate about this hybrid stuff and in marrying like the digital with the physical, not because I love digital so much, cuz I really don't, but because I think that, well, I know that there's 167 other hours a week that the one hour a week that kids are sitting in our service, in my church I have too. So 166 hours in addition in a student's life, what am I doing then? How am I reaching a student where they are? How are they learning, growing, developing deeper into the core characters of Christ and doing the things that he challenged them to do? How else are they coming across those things? If it's not just a wins in night when they're in the building with me, or on a Sunday morning when they're in the building with me. Like when else are they being challenged by their youth pastor, by their church to live out their faith, to live out their faith, to learn the knowledge, to understand the things and tenants of the Bible, but

Nick Clason (17:48):
Also then to carry out that message to their friends, to reach their friends who are far from Jesus, to, to share the message of hope, the gospel with their friends who don't know him, to grow deeper in their relationship, to hone their skills, their character, so that it mirrors more closely like Christ to, to follow what, what his mission was that he laid out. I mean, this is so much more than how do I return in my receipts and how do I learn the softwares in the systems? Like I get it, right? Like at church is an organization. And without those things, you know, it would probably be far less effective. I get it. And you know, it's, it, it, maybe it's just a necessary evil, I don't know. Um, but it's just, it's something that got me thinking, like, you know, sit in a staff meeting today and we're just going over tons and tons of logistics and you know, like I said, I love my job.

Nick Clason (18:45):
I have a really great job, and they're, they're allowing us to think outside the box and allowing us to break the mold a little bit. And so I'm, I'm really grateful for that. Um, but I just wonder if sometimes church, not just my church, all churches get a sucked into the tyranny of the urgent and b, turn into event makers as opposed to makers of disciples, builders of disciples, crafting, honing the next generation to look and act more like the person of Jesus. Like that's, that was his commission. So if we start with that, if we, if we start with the why, like why do we do this? And is an event the most effective way to do it? Probably, Or at least, at least if it's not, it's, it's a part of a hybrid solution to what the future looks like. And I don't have all the answers.

Nick Clason (19:38):
And that's you. That's, I think that's why I'm coming across passionate and potentially angry. I'm not angry. I'm really not. I'm just, I, I'm really, I'm right now I'm gonna study provided through my church about 50 days through the life of Christ. It's an amazing study. I've done it before. I'm doing it again, just being reminded about how intentional Jesus was about investing in people living life with his disciples and modeling for them what his ministry model was. And, and then I turn around and I'm, you know, I'm having to like, figure out how to like submit her a seat cuz I've never done it before. Cuz you know, I always had my admin do it. And, uh, she, she recently left and started a new job somewhere else. And so we're looking for one. And you know, I'm like slugging through that a little bit and I'm like, man, I get it.

Nick Clason (20:28):
Like right. It's necessary. And if anyone, if anyone from where I work hears this, they're gonna like, think I'm just this ungrateful, you know, complaining guy. Like I'm not, I'm really not. I'm just, I'm wrestling with like, what's the most important and how do we, how do we create something to respond to the tyranny of the urgent while not losing ourselves in the making of disciples. And I think that that's, I think every youth pastor, I think every pastor, every person in vocational ministry feels that tension at some point. So if you're in vocational ministry, let me hear it from you. Um, we're in this together and like I said, I love where I work. I don't have all the answers, um, but it's just something that got me thinking today. So I don't know. Listen bro, this is like a stream of consciousness. Like, I don't know if I'm gonna have chapter markers for this at the end of the day. Like this is just me rambling talking for 20 minutes. So if you found a helpful, let me know. Reach out on Twitter at hybrid ministry or, uh, swing by the website, hybridministry.xyz. Uh, and until next time, we'll talk to you later. Peace out my friends.

]]> Episode 011: Building a Digital Strategy from Scratch and optimizing your church website for all intended audiences https://www.hybridministry.xyz/011 4afa9336-f4ff-490b-aa0b-9db40f999a8d Thu, 29 Sep 2022 04:00:00 -0500 Nick Clason 011 Building a Digital Strategy from Scratch and optimizing your church website for all intended audiences full Nick Clason In this solo pod Nick sits down and discusses target audiences, building a digital ministry strategy from scratch at a church that doesn't have much to start with. And who knows how it's going to go, but you'll be along for the ride! For more head to http://hybridministry.xyz or follow us on twitter at http://twitter.com/hybridministry 17:53 no SUMMARY In this solo pod Nick sits down and discusses target audiences, building a digital ministry strategy from scratch at a church that doesn't have much to start with. And who knows how it's going to go, but you'll be along for the ride! For more head to http://hybridministry.xyz or follow us on twitter at http://twitter.com/hybridministry SHOWNOTES https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqhrIqTy2ZE&amp;t=914s https://prochurchtools.libsyn.com/email-newsletters-overwhelmed-church-staff-social-media-predictions-gone-wrong https://prochurchtools.libsyn.com/email-open-rates-subject-lines-removing-inactive-subscribers https://prochurchtools.com/7-proven-church-newsletter-ideas-that-really-work/ TIMECODES 00:00-01:13 Intro 01:13-03:03 My Digital Ministry Proposal for my Youth Ministry 03:03-04:01 Back Story 04:01-06:22 Why I love plain text emails 06:22-07:49 Building the Website from Scratch 07:49-12:17 Mapping out the Student Website 12:17-13:05 What to include on a parent website 13:05-13:54 What leaders need on a website 13:54-15:11 Why most church websites don't know who their intended audience is 15:11-15:42 How often to send emails 15:42-16:46 Youth or Student Ministry for SEO? 16:46-17:52 Outro TRANSCRIPT Nick Clason (00:01): Ooh, what's going on everybody. Uh, welcome to another episode of the hybrid ministry podcast. I am your host, Nick Clason, excited to be joining you today this morning. Um, bright and beautiful morning. Uh, I am all, I'm doing another solo pod and I'm so sad cuz I love, love talking to Matt. Um, and we will probably share nothing bad, man. Like nothing bad. Uh, we'll probably share in a future episode, what is going on? Um, life is a little influx for both of us to be completely honest. Uh, as I said in the last episode I had just recently taken a job at a church in Texas. I'm currently sitting in the basement of my house in Illinois. Um, I am leaving for Disney in a day to go on vacation with my family. Uh, so life is absolutely chaos in mayhem. And so anyway, um, I wanted to just hop on here and uh, you know, just talk through a couple of things and uh, share some insights today. Nick Clason (01:11): Specifically I wanted to talk about the most recent digital ministry hybrid ministry proposal that I put together for the church that I'm working at. Um, and so, uh, gosh, maybe it was like five or so episodes ago I explained, you know, what we were doing at the church I was working at where I'm going, does not have as clearly of a defined digital strategy. It's also in the south. Um, it's the buckle of the Bible belt, Dallas. It feels like. Right. And so, um, there's a lot more of an in person kind of moment. And so how do we take what's already going on in person and create hybrid options? Why would we even wanna do that? What's the purpose of digital ministry, especially if an in person thing is going so well. And so I wanna jump in and explain kind of all of that today. Nick Clason (02:01): That's kind of the point, but like I said, we're a little bit in transition. My goal is to still never miss a Thursday drop. Uh, we have these set to go live every Thursday at four o'clock in the morning. And so as soon as you wake up on Thursday after a night of youth ministry, if your youth pastor or on your commute on the way on, in, on a Thursday, you should see one of these. You should get one of these in your podcast, catcher. Hey, listen. Also, we would just love it. If you would share the word. If you'd get this out there with a friend post on social media, tag us on Twitter at hybrid ministry, our website for we have full show notes, transcripts, we provide those all for you. A hundred percent for free at hybridministry.xyz also on our blog on there, we have a free downloadable checklist. Nick Clason (02:48): So go check that out. Um, anytime you post social media dos and don'ts, um, that's relevant as of now, you know, as long as algorithms and social networks don't change anything. But anyway, all that to be said, let's dive in. I wanted to, uh, chat a little bit. So just quick backstory, um, where I'm headed, uh, where I just most recent took good job is, um, the same place that, uh, my boss, a former boss, um, at my old job, uh, is now working as well. So he went to this church and, um, through a series of amazing supernatural, um, and other confirmation events I felt as the Lord was telling me to also go there, um, after having been offered an opportunity. And so that's kind of that, like I said, I, I think at some point me and Matt will share kind of our journeys and what's going on and, and all those types of things, but I'm gonna say that for another episode, but all that to be said, um, I'm walking into a brand new environment, but I'm walking into the exact same boss. Nick Clason (03:52): And so things are a little bit interesting. And so on like day two, I put together a proposal and I probably wouldn't have put together such a strong proposal. Um, however I put it together because I wanted to, uh, or I mean a cuz he trusted me and, and B cuz I had a lot of desires and opinions. And so the first thing which just started off of was he was saying, Hey man, do some research on email marketing. I was like, okay, fine. Right. Like, you know, I don't know if you know this or not. I host podcast, no big deal. Right. all about digital ministry hybrid ministry. Obviously I was joking. Um, the children's pastor at the church has an email newsletter and uh, I don't know. Um, one of the, one of the guys I'm super, um, I, I, that influences me a lot in this space is Brady sheer, um, of pro church tools, pro church tools podcast, and um, him along with a lot of research from HubSpot and stuff like that, they really, really push against marketing type emails and they push strongly towards plain text type emails. Nick Clason (05:01): Say they say that open rates are higher. Um, email algorithms, yes. Emails have algorithms. Uh, they, uh, email algorithms, you know, play more nicely with emails that look plain, text that look like it's just like a friend to a friend type of conversation as opposed to something that you would get from some gigantic corporation with a bunch of graphics and things like that. And so, um, you know, my, my boss, former boss also now current boss and friend, um, so I was, again able to be a little more direct. I feel like than if I was just starting completely brand new was like, Hey, I want this, I want our emails to look like the kids' ministry emails. He forwarded it to me and I said, Hey, that looks great. And it did. I mean, it looks amazing. Um, I said, however, you know, I sent 'em look like probably five or six links. Nick Clason (05:53): Um, and I can link those in the show notes. Uh, but I, I said five or six links about like, Hey, here's why we don't want to do this. Right. And, uh, he wasn't totally convinced. And so I said, Hey, here's the thing. Um, let's take a look at, um, maybe creating this in a website style. And so that's kinda, what I wanna talk about today is this, this proposal I put together for a hub based website. And so the communications guy at the church I'm working at now was not in the office last week. So, um, I sent this to my boss. He's going to sit down with the communications guy and pitch it when I'm gone at Disney next week. Uh, all that being said, I have no idea where this is gonna head, but this is kind of like us starting, um, hybrid digital ministry from the ground up. Nick Clason (06:46): Currently we have a website and we have an Instagram and that is it. There's really nothing else. I mean, we have an email list as well. It's pulled out of our church management software. And so what I wanted to do is I wanna do a hub style website where anyone at any time could go and check out. And so, uh, the thing in student ministry, um, like I said, I'm a youth pastor. So if you're not a youth pastor, um, this still applies. But, but the thing in student ministry, I think there's, what is your intended audience on your website? Is it students? Is it parents? Is it leaders? And the honest truth is that it's probably all three. And so I don't know the best way to do this, but what I think is that you go to a central kinda landing spot, a central sort of website. Nick Clason (07:34): And then you say from there students, parents leaders with like a button for each, or like a page for each or a link for each or whatever. Right. Um, and each of those have a different reason, a different purpose, right? So, um, students, I, I think you wanna link upcoming events. You may wanna have sign up calendars. Um, but also, and this is the thing I'm really, really trying to double down on. And this is the whole reason for me personally, why I'm so passionate about hybrid ministry is I want digital discipleship tools. I don't know where you land on it. As far as your definition of discipleship. I believe that discipleship has a life on life component. If you look at Jesus and the way that he modeled life with his disciples, he literally lived with them. They came and see, they checked it out and then they come and they followed him and then he started giving them more and more assignments. Nick Clason (08:32): And then until eventually ultimately he left all of the next steps of the church in their hands, all of that done life on life. And I think that there should be a life on life component. I think there should be a physical non-digital in person meeting. Right. And that's why this whole thing, right? We're not talking about it being physical versus digital. We're talking about hybrid. How do both of these two things marry? Why? Because, um, while I would love to be a youth pastor that when people look at me, they say, I see Jesus in you. And I model my life in my ministry after Jesus. I also, um, cannot spend the same amount of time with the people I am attempting to disciple the same way that Jesus did. I mean, I guess I could. Right. But that would require me to, um, sell all my possessions, be homeless and wander around from place to place. Nick Clason (09:29): And while that may sound noble and amazing to some of you out there and you're like, yeah, did you should totally do that. I have a wife and kids and I just, you know, our American system doesn't really lend itself that well to it. And I'm not trying to be facetious here, honestly, I'm just saying it, there are constraints, um, that I have placed on my own life. Right. But also constraints within the American working system and whatnot. And so I love the idea of digital resources because it allows there to be other pieces, elements of content that can take place in the gaps, in the margins, in between our, in person meetings. Right. So, uh, right now, like I said, we have an Instagram, so that's posting on the fee. That's also posting on reels, as we've said, a billion times on this podcast, short form, video content as king. Nick Clason (10:21): And so we want to continue to double down on that. I want to continue to double down on that as a part of my proposal. And as a part of us building this thing from the ground up, I also wanna explore the idea of a daily video slash audio podcast. Did I say daily? I didn't mean daily, but a video audio, um, podcast, perhaps some daily devotionals, those could live on YouTube. Um, they could also just go short form on TikTok. And I also love the idea of blog style articles or some written devotional type content. That's either custom or that is curated. And so those are some elements. And in all of that as a youth pastor, I have to think what about the sixth grader? What about the seventh grader? What about the eighth grader? Um, that their parents won't allow them to have a phone. Nick Clason (11:16): And so I want all this stuff to be able to live on a website so that they can go there and there's pulled content from our YouTube channel. They can click, they can go to YouTube. They don't need a phone. They don't need YouTube account to watch it. Same with TikTok. I actually like the TikTok sharing link algorithm pretty well, cuz you don't unlike Instagram. Um, it's much easier to interface with it without an account. Of course it's easier with it. It always is. They try to make it that way. Right. Um, and same with the video or audio podcast probably hosted on YouTube or whatever and whatnot, all of those to be digital type discipleship tools that entire framework's not built out. Right. But I want to create a central student hub where people can go to students specifically can go to and be both a informed about what's going on times, whatever, what, not calendar events, but also, um, grab some things that can help them grow in their faith and help them grow closer to Jesus. Nick Clason (12:18): Then we want a parent hub and um, same thing, upcoming calendar events, signups links out to social media, perhaps a parent specific only Facebook group. I think that Facebook is used best in that format in ministry, um, for group type settings. And um, you know, so like parents are probably some of the, the most active users on it. I don't think we should neglect Facebook altogether, but I don't think it's super prevalent and relevant for students. And then same thing for them. I wanna also offer parent discipleship type tools, maybe a parent podcast, maybe some parent based articles and then some curated materials links out to other things, materials, whatever, whatnot. Um, and then finally leaders, um, a leader hub as well. So calendar of events, um, lessons, small group materials, videos of the upcoming lessons, if they're prerecorded or anything like that. Um, leader resources links to Facebook groups or group MES, um, applications to serve. Nick Clason (13:27): Uh, and then also some leader growth slash discipleship type tools, podcast, article, curative materials, right? And so what we wanna try and create is a place where like everyone at any time knows exactly where to go to such and such website. And they always go there, students go there, parents go there leaders go there. And then from there, it's clear if you're a student, you dive down this path. If you're a parent, you dive down this path and if you're a leader, you dive down this path. In my experience as a youth pastor, I've looked around, there are not a ton of amazing youth ministry websites out there. And I think part of the problem is because there are multiple intended audiences. Is it for students or is it for parents or is it for leaders? And I think in a lot of cases, and this is a super basic and easy marketing premise, right? Nick Clason (14:18): But the, the bottom line, the reality of it is, is that you gotta know who your audience is. And a lot of times, I don't know that that's all the way defined. So who is your audience? Figure that out and Noah, and in this case, we're realizing that there are three audiences that we really care about and that we want to aim and that we want to hit and that we want to create custom content for all three of them either create it or curate it, which means find other things out there on the internet to help kinda resource that. And then from there, if everything is built onto a website and if the website is ruthlessly updated, I think a lot of times too, youth pastors or churches think of their website as their last stop, as opposed to their first. So if the website remains ruthlessly updated, then you can just do a weekly, plain text, email scheduled from a person, pastor Craig, pastor, John, Andrew, whatever the names are. Nick Clason (15:21): Right. Um, historically I've heard that the best times to send an email is Tuesday at 9:00 AM. I dunno if that's still true, it's something I've been doing for 10 years now. Um, and then I think that, uh, you can pay attention to subscribers and open rates and click throughs through a thing like MailChimp or, um, maybe your church management software offers that ability. The last thing, um, that you know, is just interesting is, um, one of the things we're, we're debating right now and I'll let you know, kind of where we land is, do we keep the name students or do we switch over to using youth for search engine optimization purposes? What, what Matt has found and, you know, Matt used to be a marketer for dare to share. And so he found that overseas students was used a lot more frequently in America. Nick Clason (16:12): Youth ministry is the preferred term, especially on, um, Google and stuff. And actually he was showing that if you look up the word students, um, oftentimes it's in relation to college, collegiate ministry, stuff like that. And so, uh, that was just a super interesting thing. And so again, as we're building from the ground up, we're having these conversations, we, my boss and I, we both like the word youth, um, you know, can we get, can we get the church on board for it? Um, what's the branding implications, all those types of things, but that's another conversation that we're having with our, uh, communications people. So there you have it, there is my hub style website proposal for church. I'll let you know how it goes, bringing you a long lifetime for it again. Thanks for being here. Hey, hybridministry.xyz is your one stop shop for everything that we have to offer. Um, again, like I said, in our last episode, we're looking to continue to create more and more resources for you. Look for those coming here in the next month or so as Matt and I both kind of get our feet under us about what's next and where we're headed. Um, look forward to having him back on the pod at some point, but until then, stuck with me, glad to be with you. Um, and we will talk again later. Thanks guys. Check you out on the flippty flip Digital Strategy, Proposal, Website, SEO, Youth, Student, Ministry, Hybrid, Church Streaming, Online Church, Meta Church SUMMARY
In this solo pod Nick sits down and discusses target audiences, building a digital ministry strategy from scratch at a church that doesn't have much to start with. And who knows how it's going to go, but you'll be along for the ride! For more head to http://hybridministry.xyz or follow us on twitter at http://twitter.com/hybridministry

SHOWNOTES
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqhrIqTy2ZE&t=914s

https://prochurchtools.libsyn.com/email-newsletters-overwhelmed-church-staff-social-media-predictions-gone-wrong

https://prochurchtools.libsyn.com/email-open-rates-subject-lines-removing-inactive-subscribers

https://prochurchtools.com/7-proven-church-newsletter-ideas-that-really-work/

TIMECODES
00:00-01:13 Intro
01:13-03:03 My Digital Ministry Proposal for my Youth Ministry
03:03-04:01 Back Story
04:01-06:22 Why I love plain text emails
06:22-07:49 Building the Website from Scratch
07:49-12:17 Mapping out the Student Website
12:17-13:05 What to include on a parent website
13:05-13:54 What leaders need on a website
13:54-15:11 Why most church websites don't know who their intended audience is
15:11-15:42 How often to send emails
15:42-16:46 Youth or Student Ministry for SEO?
16:46-17:52 Outro

TRANSCRIPT
Nick Clason (00:01):
Ooh, what's going on everybody. Uh, welcome to another episode of the hybrid ministry podcast. I am your host, Nick Clason, excited to be joining you today this morning. Um, bright and beautiful morning. Uh, I am all, I'm doing another solo pod and I'm so sad cuz I love, love talking to Matt. Um, and we will probably share nothing bad, man. Like nothing bad. Uh, we'll probably share in a future episode, what is going on? Um, life is a little influx for both of us to be completely honest. Uh, as I said in the last episode I had just recently taken a job at a church in Texas. I'm currently sitting in the basement of my house in Illinois. Um, I am leaving for Disney in a day to go on vacation with my family. Uh, so life is absolutely chaos in mayhem. And so anyway, um, I wanted to just hop on here and uh, you know, just talk through a couple of things and uh, share some insights today.

Nick Clason (01:11):
Specifically I wanted to talk about the most recent digital ministry hybrid ministry proposal that I put together for the church that I'm working at. Um, and so, uh, gosh, maybe it was like five or so episodes ago I explained, you know, what we were doing at the church I was working at where I'm going, does not have as clearly of a defined digital strategy. It's also in the south. Um, it's the buckle of the Bible belt, Dallas. It feels like. Right. And so, um, there's a lot more of an in person kind of moment. And so how do we take what's already going on in person and create hybrid options? Why would we even wanna do that? What's the purpose of digital ministry, especially if an in person thing is going so well. And so I wanna jump in and explain kind of all of that today.

Nick Clason (02:01):
That's kind of the point, but like I said, we're a little bit in transition. My goal is to still never miss a Thursday drop. Uh, we have these set to go live every Thursday at four o'clock in the morning. And so as soon as you wake up on Thursday after a night of youth ministry, if your youth pastor or on your commute on the way on, in, on a Thursday, you should see one of these. You should get one of these in your podcast, catcher. Hey, listen. Also, we would just love it. If you would share the word. If you'd get this out there with a friend post on social media, tag us on Twitter at hybrid ministry, our website for we have full show notes, transcripts, we provide those all for you. A hundred percent for free at hybridministry.xyz also on our blog on there, we have a free downloadable checklist.

Nick Clason (02:48):
So go check that out. Um, anytime you post social media dos and don'ts, um, that's relevant as of now, you know, as long as algorithms and social networks don't change anything. But anyway, all that to be said, let's dive in. I wanted to, uh, chat a little bit. So just quick backstory, um, where I'm headed, uh, where I just most recent took good job is, um, the same place that, uh, my boss, a former boss, um, at my old job, uh, is now working as well. So he went to this church and, um, through a series of amazing supernatural, um, and other confirmation events I felt as the Lord was telling me to also go there, um, after having been offered an opportunity. And so that's kind of that, like I said, I, I think at some point me and Matt will share kind of our journeys and what's going on and, and all those types of things, but I'm gonna say that for another episode, but all that to be said, um, I'm walking into a brand new environment, but I'm walking into the exact same boss.

Nick Clason (03:52):
And so things are a little bit interesting. And so on like day two, I put together a proposal and I probably wouldn't have put together such a strong proposal. Um, however I put it together because I wanted to, uh, or I mean a cuz he trusted me and, and B cuz I had a lot of desires and opinions. And so the first thing which just started off of was he was saying, Hey man, do some research on email marketing. I was like, okay, fine. Right. Like, you know, I don't know if you know this or not. I host podcast, no big deal. Right. all about digital ministry hybrid ministry. Obviously I was joking. Um, the children's pastor at the church has an email newsletter and uh, I don't know. Um, one of the, one of the guys I'm super, um, I, I, that influences me a lot in this space is Brady sheer, um, of pro church tools, pro church tools podcast, and um, him along with a lot of research from HubSpot and stuff like that, they really, really push against marketing type emails and they push strongly towards plain text type emails.

Nick Clason (05:01):
Say they say that open rates are higher. Um, email algorithms, yes. Emails have algorithms. Uh, they, uh, email algorithms, you know, play more nicely with emails that look plain, text that look like it's just like a friend to a friend type of conversation as opposed to something that you would get from some gigantic corporation with a bunch of graphics and things like that. And so, um, you know, my, my boss, former boss also now current boss and friend, um, so I was, again able to be a little more direct. I feel like than if I was just starting completely brand new was like, Hey, I want this, I want our emails to look like the kids' ministry emails. He forwarded it to me and I said, Hey, that looks great. And it did. I mean, it looks amazing. Um, I said, however, you know, I sent 'em look like probably five or six links.

Nick Clason (05:53):
Um, and I can link those in the show notes. Uh, but I, I said five or six links about like, Hey, here's why we don't want to do this. Right. And, uh, he wasn't totally convinced. And so I said, Hey, here's the thing. Um, let's take a look at, um, maybe creating this in a website style. And so that's kinda, what I wanna talk about today is this, this proposal I put together for a hub based website. And so the communications guy at the church I'm working at now was not in the office last week. So, um, I sent this to my boss. He's going to sit down with the communications guy and pitch it when I'm gone at Disney next week. Uh, all that being said, I have no idea where this is gonna head, but this is kind of like us starting, um, hybrid digital ministry from the ground up.

Nick Clason (06:46):
Currently we have a website and we have an Instagram and that is it. There's really nothing else. I mean, we have an email list as well. It's pulled out of our church management software. And so what I wanted to do is I wanna do a hub style website where anyone at any time could go and check out. And so, uh, the thing in student ministry, um, like I said, I'm a youth pastor. So if you're not a youth pastor, um, this still applies. But, but the thing in student ministry, I think there's, what is your intended audience on your website? Is it students? Is it parents? Is it leaders? And the honest truth is that it's probably all three. And so I don't know the best way to do this, but what I think is that you go to a central kinda landing spot, a central sort of website.

Nick Clason (07:34):
And then you say from there students, parents leaders with like a button for each, or like a page for each or a link for each or whatever. Right. Um, and each of those have a different reason, a different purpose, right? So, um, students, I, I think you wanna link upcoming events. You may wanna have sign up calendars. Um, but also, and this is the thing I'm really, really trying to double down on. And this is the whole reason for me personally, why I'm so passionate about hybrid ministry is I want digital discipleship tools. I don't know where you land on it. As far as your definition of discipleship. I believe that discipleship has a life on life component. If you look at Jesus and the way that he modeled life with his disciples, he literally lived with them. They came and see, they checked it out and then they come and they followed him and then he started giving them more and more assignments.

Nick Clason (08:32):
And then until eventually ultimately he left all of the next steps of the church in their hands, all of that done life on life. And I think that there should be a life on life component. I think there should be a physical non-digital in person meeting. Right. And that's why this whole thing, right? We're not talking about it being physical versus digital. We're talking about hybrid. How do both of these two things marry? Why? Because, um, while I would love to be a youth pastor that when people look at me, they say, I see Jesus in you. And I model my life in my ministry after Jesus. I also, um, cannot spend the same amount of time with the people I am attempting to disciple the same way that Jesus did. I mean, I guess I could. Right. But that would require me to, um, sell all my possessions, be homeless and wander around from place to place.

Nick Clason (09:29):
And while that may sound noble and amazing to some of you out there and you're like, yeah, did you should totally do that. I have a wife and kids and I just, you know, our American system doesn't really lend itself that well to it. And I'm not trying to be facetious here, honestly, I'm just saying it, there are constraints, um, that I have placed on my own life. Right. But also constraints within the American working system and whatnot. And so I love the idea of digital resources because it allows there to be other pieces, elements of content that can take place in the gaps, in the margins, in between our, in person meetings. Right. So, uh, right now, like I said, we have an Instagram, so that's posting on the fee. That's also posting on reels, as we've said, a billion times on this podcast, short form, video content as king.

Nick Clason (10:21):
And so we want to continue to double down on that. I want to continue to double down on that as a part of my proposal. And as a part of us building this thing from the ground up, I also wanna explore the idea of a daily video slash audio podcast. Did I say daily? I didn't mean daily, but a video audio, um, podcast, perhaps some daily devotionals, those could live on YouTube. Um, they could also just go short form on TikTok. And I also love the idea of blog style articles or some written devotional type content. That's either custom or that is curated. And so those are some elements. And in all of that as a youth pastor, I have to think what about the sixth grader? What about the seventh grader? What about the eighth grader? Um, that their parents won't allow them to have a phone.

Nick Clason (11:16):
And so I want all this stuff to be able to live on a website so that they can go there and there's pulled content from our YouTube channel. They can click, they can go to YouTube. They don't need a phone. They don't need YouTube account to watch it. Same with TikTok. I actually like the TikTok sharing link algorithm pretty well, cuz you don't unlike Instagram. Um, it's much easier to interface with it without an account. Of course it's easier with it. It always is. They try to make it that way. Right. Um, and same with the video or audio podcast probably hosted on YouTube or whatever and whatnot, all of those to be digital type discipleship tools that entire framework's not built out. Right. But I want to create a central student hub where people can go to students specifically can go to and be both a informed about what's going on times, whatever, what, not calendar events, but also, um, grab some things that can help them grow in their faith and help them grow closer to Jesus.

Nick Clason (12:18):
Then we want a parent hub and um, same thing, upcoming calendar events, signups links out to social media, perhaps a parent specific only Facebook group. I think that Facebook is used best in that format in ministry, um, for group type settings. And um, you know, so like parents are probably some of the, the most active users on it. I don't think we should neglect Facebook altogether, but I don't think it's super prevalent and relevant for students. And then same thing for them. I wanna also offer parent discipleship type tools, maybe a parent podcast, maybe some parent based articles and then some curated materials links out to other things, materials, whatever, whatnot. Um, and then finally leaders, um, a leader hub as well. So calendar of events, um, lessons, small group materials, videos of the upcoming lessons, if they're prerecorded or anything like that. Um, leader resources links to Facebook groups or group MES, um, applications to serve.

Nick Clason (13:27):
Uh, and then also some leader growth slash discipleship type tools, podcast, article, curative materials, right? And so what we wanna try and create is a place where like everyone at any time knows exactly where to go to such and such website. And they always go there, students go there, parents go there leaders go there. And then from there, it's clear if you're a student, you dive down this path. If you're a parent, you dive down this path and if you're a leader, you dive down this path. In my experience as a youth pastor, I've looked around, there are not a ton of amazing youth ministry websites out there. And I think part of the problem is because there are multiple intended audiences. Is it for students or is it for parents or is it for leaders? And I think in a lot of cases, and this is a super basic and easy marketing premise, right?

Nick Clason (14:18):
But the, the bottom line, the reality of it is, is that you gotta know who your audience is. And a lot of times, I don't know that that's all the way defined. So who is your audience? Figure that out and Noah, and in this case, we're realizing that there are three audiences that we really care about and that we want to aim and that we want to hit and that we want to create custom content for all three of them either create it or curate it, which means find other things out there on the internet to help kinda resource that. And then from there, if everything is built onto a website and if the website is ruthlessly updated, I think a lot of times too, youth pastors or churches think of their website as their last stop, as opposed to their first. So if the website remains ruthlessly updated, then you can just do a weekly, plain text, email scheduled from a person, pastor Craig, pastor, John, Andrew, whatever the names are.

Nick Clason (15:21):
Right. Um, historically I've heard that the best times to send an email is Tuesday at 9:00 AM. I dunno if that's still true, it's something I've been doing for 10 years now. Um, and then I think that, uh, you can pay attention to subscribers and open rates and click throughs through a thing like MailChimp or, um, maybe your church management software offers that ability. The last thing, um, that you know, is just interesting is, um, one of the things we're, we're debating right now and I'll let you know, kind of where we land is, do we keep the name students or do we switch over to using youth for search engine optimization purposes? What, what Matt has found and, you know, Matt used to be a marketer for dare to share. And so he found that overseas students was used a lot more frequently in America.

Nick Clason (16:12):
Youth ministry is the preferred term, especially on, um, Google and stuff. And actually he was showing that if you look up the word students, um, oftentimes it's in relation to college, collegiate ministry, stuff like that. And so, uh, that was just a super interesting thing. And so again, as we're building from the ground up, we're having these conversations, we, my boss and I, we both like the word youth, um, you know, can we get, can we get the church on board for it? Um, what's the branding implications, all those types of things, but that's another conversation that we're having with our, uh, communications people. So there you have it, there is my hub style website proposal for church. I'll let you know how it goes, bringing you a long lifetime for it again. Thanks for being here. Hey, hybridministry.xyz is your one stop shop for everything that we have to offer. Um, again, like I said, in our last episode, we're looking to continue to create more and more resources for you. Look for those coming here in the next month or so as Matt and I both kind of get our feet under us about what's next and where we're headed. Um, look forward to having him back on the pod at some point, but until then, stuck with me, glad to be with you. Um, and we will talk again later. Thanks guys. Check you out on the flippty flip

]]> SUMMARY
In this solo pod Nick sits down and discusses target audiences, building a digital ministry strategy from scratch at a church that doesn't have much to start with. And who knows how it's going to go, but you'll be along for the ride! For more head to http://hybridministry.xyz or follow us on twitter at http://twitter.com/hybridministry

SHOWNOTES
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqhrIqTy2ZE&t=914s

https://prochurchtools.libsyn.com/email-newsletters-overwhelmed-church-staff-social-media-predictions-gone-wrong

https://prochurchtools.libsyn.com/email-open-rates-subject-lines-removing-inactive-subscribers

https://prochurchtools.com/7-proven-church-newsletter-ideas-that-really-work/

TIMECODES
00:00-01:13 Intro
01:13-03:03 My Digital Ministry Proposal for my Youth Ministry
03:03-04:01 Back Story
04:01-06:22 Why I love plain text emails
06:22-07:49 Building the Website from Scratch
07:49-12:17 Mapping out the Student Website
12:17-13:05 What to include on a parent website
13:05-13:54 What leaders need on a website
13:54-15:11 Why most church websites don't know who their intended audience is
15:11-15:42 How often to send emails
15:42-16:46 Youth or Student Ministry for SEO?
16:46-17:52 Outro

TRANSCRIPT
Nick Clason (00:01):
Ooh, what's going on everybody. Uh, welcome to another episode of the hybrid ministry podcast. I am your host, Nick Clason, excited to be joining you today this morning. Um, bright and beautiful morning. Uh, I am all, I'm doing another solo pod and I'm so sad cuz I love, love talking to Matt. Um, and we will probably share nothing bad, man. Like nothing bad. Uh, we'll probably share in a future episode, what is going on? Um, life is a little influx for both of us to be completely honest. Uh, as I said in the last episode I had just recently taken a job at a church in Texas. I'm currently sitting in the basement of my house in Illinois. Um, I am leaving for Disney in a day to go on vacation with my family. Uh, so life is absolutely chaos in mayhem. And so anyway, um, I wanted to just hop on here and uh, you know, just talk through a couple of things and uh, share some insights today.

Nick Clason (01:11):
Specifically I wanted to talk about the most recent digital ministry hybrid ministry proposal that I put together for the church that I'm working at. Um, and so, uh, gosh, maybe it was like five or so episodes ago I explained, you know, what we were doing at the church I was working at where I'm going, does not have as clearly of a defined digital strategy. It's also in the south. Um, it's the buckle of the Bible belt, Dallas. It feels like. Right. And so, um, there's a lot more of an in person kind of moment. And so how do we take what's already going on in person and create hybrid options? Why would we even wanna do that? What's the purpose of digital ministry, especially if an in person thing is going so well. And so I wanna jump in and explain kind of all of that today.

Nick Clason (02:01):
That's kind of the point, but like I said, we're a little bit in transition. My goal is to still never miss a Thursday drop. Uh, we have these set to go live every Thursday at four o'clock in the morning. And so as soon as you wake up on Thursday after a night of youth ministry, if your youth pastor or on your commute on the way on, in, on a Thursday, you should see one of these. You should get one of these in your podcast, catcher. Hey, listen. Also, we would just love it. If you would share the word. If you'd get this out there with a friend post on social media, tag us on Twitter at hybrid ministry, our website for we have full show notes, transcripts, we provide those all for you. A hundred percent for free at hybridministry.xyz also on our blog on there, we have a free downloadable checklist.

Nick Clason (02:48):
So go check that out. Um, anytime you post social media dos and don'ts, um, that's relevant as of now, you know, as long as algorithms and social networks don't change anything. But anyway, all that to be said, let's dive in. I wanted to, uh, chat a little bit. So just quick backstory, um, where I'm headed, uh, where I just most recent took good job is, um, the same place that, uh, my boss, a former boss, um, at my old job, uh, is now working as well. So he went to this church and, um, through a series of amazing supernatural, um, and other confirmation events I felt as the Lord was telling me to also go there, um, after having been offered an opportunity. And so that's kind of that, like I said, I, I think at some point me and Matt will share kind of our journeys and what's going on and, and all those types of things, but I'm gonna say that for another episode, but all that to be said, um, I'm walking into a brand new environment, but I'm walking into the exact same boss.

Nick Clason (03:52):
And so things are a little bit interesting. And so on like day two, I put together a proposal and I probably wouldn't have put together such a strong proposal. Um, however I put it together because I wanted to, uh, or I mean a cuz he trusted me and, and B cuz I had a lot of desires and opinions. And so the first thing which just started off of was he was saying, Hey man, do some research on email marketing. I was like, okay, fine. Right. Like, you know, I don't know if you know this or not. I host podcast, no big deal. Right. all about digital ministry hybrid ministry. Obviously I was joking. Um, the children's pastor at the church has an email newsletter and uh, I don't know. Um, one of the, one of the guys I'm super, um, I, I, that influences me a lot in this space is Brady sheer, um, of pro church tools, pro church tools podcast, and um, him along with a lot of research from HubSpot and stuff like that, they really, really push against marketing type emails and they push strongly towards plain text type emails.

Nick Clason (05:01):
Say they say that open rates are higher. Um, email algorithms, yes. Emails have algorithms. Uh, they, uh, email algorithms, you know, play more nicely with emails that look plain, text that look like it's just like a friend to a friend type of conversation as opposed to something that you would get from some gigantic corporation with a bunch of graphics and things like that. And so, um, you know, my, my boss, former boss also now current boss and friend, um, so I was, again able to be a little more direct. I feel like than if I was just starting completely brand new was like, Hey, I want this, I want our emails to look like the kids' ministry emails. He forwarded it to me and I said, Hey, that looks great. And it did. I mean, it looks amazing. Um, I said, however, you know, I sent 'em look like probably five or six links.

Nick Clason (05:53):
Um, and I can link those in the show notes. Uh, but I, I said five or six links about like, Hey, here's why we don't want to do this. Right. And, uh, he wasn't totally convinced. And so I said, Hey, here's the thing. Um, let's take a look at, um, maybe creating this in a website style. And so that's kinda, what I wanna talk about today is this, this proposal I put together for a hub based website. And so the communications guy at the church I'm working at now was not in the office last week. So, um, I sent this to my boss. He's going to sit down with the communications guy and pitch it when I'm gone at Disney next week. Uh, all that being said, I have no idea where this is gonna head, but this is kind of like us starting, um, hybrid digital ministry from the ground up.

Nick Clason (06:46):
Currently we have a website and we have an Instagram and that is it. There's really nothing else. I mean, we have an email list as well. It's pulled out of our church management software. And so what I wanted to do is I wanna do a hub style website where anyone at any time could go and check out. And so, uh, the thing in student ministry, um, like I said, I'm a youth pastor. So if you're not a youth pastor, um, this still applies. But, but the thing in student ministry, I think there's, what is your intended audience on your website? Is it students? Is it parents? Is it leaders? And the honest truth is that it's probably all three. And so I don't know the best way to do this, but what I think is that you go to a central kinda landing spot, a central sort of website.

Nick Clason (07:34):
And then you say from there students, parents leaders with like a button for each, or like a page for each or a link for each or whatever. Right. Um, and each of those have a different reason, a different purpose, right? So, um, students, I, I think you wanna link upcoming events. You may wanna have sign up calendars. Um, but also, and this is the thing I'm really, really trying to double down on. And this is the whole reason for me personally, why I'm so passionate about hybrid ministry is I want digital discipleship tools. I don't know where you land on it. As far as your definition of discipleship. I believe that discipleship has a life on life component. If you look at Jesus and the way that he modeled life with his disciples, he literally lived with them. They came and see, they checked it out and then they come and they followed him and then he started giving them more and more assignments.

Nick Clason (08:32):
And then until eventually ultimately he left all of the next steps of the church in their hands, all of that done life on life. And I think that there should be a life on life component. I think there should be a physical non-digital in person meeting. Right. And that's why this whole thing, right? We're not talking about it being physical versus digital. We're talking about hybrid. How do both of these two things marry? Why? Because, um, while I would love to be a youth pastor that when people look at me, they say, I see Jesus in you. And I model my life in my ministry after Jesus. I also, um, cannot spend the same amount of time with the people I am attempting to disciple the same way that Jesus did. I mean, I guess I could. Right. But that would require me to, um, sell all my possessions, be homeless and wander around from place to place.

Nick Clason (09:29):
And while that may sound noble and amazing to some of you out there and you're like, yeah, did you should totally do that. I have a wife and kids and I just, you know, our American system doesn't really lend itself that well to it. And I'm not trying to be facetious here, honestly, I'm just saying it, there are constraints, um, that I have placed on my own life. Right. But also constraints within the American working system and whatnot. And so I love the idea of digital resources because it allows there to be other pieces, elements of content that can take place in the gaps, in the margins, in between our, in person meetings. Right. So, uh, right now, like I said, we have an Instagram, so that's posting on the fee. That's also posting on reels, as we've said, a billion times on this podcast, short form, video content as king.

Nick Clason (10:21):
And so we want to continue to double down on that. I want to continue to double down on that as a part of my proposal. And as a part of us building this thing from the ground up, I also wanna explore the idea of a daily video slash audio podcast. Did I say daily? I didn't mean daily, but a video audio, um, podcast, perhaps some daily devotionals, those could live on YouTube. Um, they could also just go short form on TikTok. And I also love the idea of blog style articles or some written devotional type content. That's either custom or that is curated. And so those are some elements. And in all of that as a youth pastor, I have to think what about the sixth grader? What about the seventh grader? What about the eighth grader? Um, that their parents won't allow them to have a phone.

Nick Clason (11:16):
And so I want all this stuff to be able to live on a website so that they can go there and there's pulled content from our YouTube channel. They can click, they can go to YouTube. They don't need a phone. They don't need YouTube account to watch it. Same with TikTok. I actually like the TikTok sharing link algorithm pretty well, cuz you don't unlike Instagram. Um, it's much easier to interface with it without an account. Of course it's easier with it. It always is. They try to make it that way. Right. Um, and same with the video or audio podcast probably hosted on YouTube or whatever and whatnot, all of those to be digital type discipleship tools that entire framework's not built out. Right. But I want to create a central student hub where people can go to students specifically can go to and be both a informed about what's going on times, whatever, what, not calendar events, but also, um, grab some things that can help them grow in their faith and help them grow closer to Jesus.

Nick Clason (12:18):
Then we want a parent hub and um, same thing, upcoming calendar events, signups links out to social media, perhaps a parent specific only Facebook group. I think that Facebook is used best in that format in ministry, um, for group type settings. And um, you know, so like parents are probably some of the, the most active users on it. I don't think we should neglect Facebook altogether, but I don't think it's super prevalent and relevant for students. And then same thing for them. I wanna also offer parent discipleship type tools, maybe a parent podcast, maybe some parent based articles and then some curated materials links out to other things, materials, whatever, whatnot. Um, and then finally leaders, um, a leader hub as well. So calendar of events, um, lessons, small group materials, videos of the upcoming lessons, if they're prerecorded or anything like that. Um, leader resources links to Facebook groups or group MES, um, applications to serve.

Nick Clason (13:27):
Uh, and then also some leader growth slash discipleship type tools, podcast, article, curative materials, right? And so what we wanna try and create is a place where like everyone at any time knows exactly where to go to such and such website. And they always go there, students go there, parents go there leaders go there. And then from there, it's clear if you're a student, you dive down this path. If you're a parent, you dive down this path and if you're a leader, you dive down this path. In my experience as a youth pastor, I've looked around, there are not a ton of amazing youth ministry websites out there. And I think part of the problem is because there are multiple intended audiences. Is it for students or is it for parents or is it for leaders? And I think in a lot of cases, and this is a super basic and easy marketing premise, right?

Nick Clason (14:18):
But the, the bottom line, the reality of it is, is that you gotta know who your audience is. And a lot of times, I don't know that that's all the way defined. So who is your audience? Figure that out and Noah, and in this case, we're realizing that there are three audiences that we really care about and that we want to aim and that we want to hit and that we want to create custom content for all three of them either create it or curate it, which means find other things out there on the internet to help kinda resource that. And then from there, if everything is built onto a website and if the website is ruthlessly updated, I think a lot of times too, youth pastors or churches think of their website as their last stop, as opposed to their first. So if the website remains ruthlessly updated, then you can just do a weekly, plain text, email scheduled from a person, pastor Craig, pastor, John, Andrew, whatever the names are.

Nick Clason (15:21):
Right. Um, historically I've heard that the best times to send an email is Tuesday at 9:00 AM. I dunno if that's still true, it's something I've been doing for 10 years now. Um, and then I think that, uh, you can pay attention to subscribers and open rates and click throughs through a thing like MailChimp or, um, maybe your church management software offers that ability. The last thing, um, that you know, is just interesting is, um, one of the things we're, we're debating right now and I'll let you know, kind of where we land is, do we keep the name students or do we switch over to using youth for search engine optimization purposes? What, what Matt has found and, you know, Matt used to be a marketer for dare to share. And so he found that overseas students was used a lot more frequently in America.

Nick Clason (16:12):
Youth ministry is the preferred term, especially on, um, Google and stuff. And actually he was showing that if you look up the word students, um, oftentimes it's in relation to college, collegiate ministry, stuff like that. And so, uh, that was just a super interesting thing. And so again, as we're building from the ground up, we're having these conversations, we, my boss and I, we both like the word youth, um, you know, can we get, can we get the church on board for it? Um, what's the branding implications, all those types of things, but that's another conversation that we're having with our, uh, communications people. So there you have it, there is my hub style website proposal for church. I'll let you know how it goes, bringing you a long lifetime for it again. Thanks for being here. Hey, hybridministry.xyz is your one stop shop for everything that we have to offer. Um, again, like I said, in our last episode, we're looking to continue to create more and more resources for you. Look for those coming here in the next month or so as Matt and I both kind of get our feet under us about what's next and where we're headed. Um, look forward to having him back on the pod at some point, but until then, stuck with me, glad to be with you. Um, and we will talk again later. Thanks guys. Check you out on the flippty flip

]]> Episode 001: How My Church can Reach Millennials and Gen Z in 2022 https://www.hybridministry.xyz/001 b7baeab3-1a00-41ff-9356-f4ba7afba094 Thu, 21 Jul 2022 04:00:00 -0500 Nick Clason 001 How My Church can Reach Millennials and Gen Z in 2022 full Nick Clason Millennials and Gen Z are increasingly harder and harder to reach. And add to that the shifting trends of church attendance. The honest truth is a lot of us as pastors aren’t exactly sure what to do. And pair with that all the difficulties that have come post-covid. How can we enter into this digital and physical world and reach Millennials and Gen Z with a more Hybrid approach to our ministry? Follow along on twitter - twitter.com/hybridministry Or find full transcripts and show notes at http://www.hybridministry.xyz 35:29 no Millennials and Gen Z are increasingly harder and harder to reach. And add to that the shifting trends of church attendance. The honest truth is a lot of us as pastors aren’t exactly sure what to do. And pair with that all the difficulties that have come post-covid. How can we enter into this digital and physical world and reach Millennials and Gen Z with a more Hybrid approach to our ministry? Follow along on twitter - twitter.com/hybridministry Or find full transcripts and show notes at http://www.hybridministry.xyz TIMECODES 00:00-0:58 – Intro 0:58-3:35 - Does Digital Ministry matter post-covid? 3:36-7:09 - What could a Hybrid Model even look like? 7:09-9:09 - The faltering faith of younger generations 9:09-13:43 - Inspecting Digital openness amongst Church attenders 13:43-16:29 - How to get started in the Digital Space 16:29-18:24 - How to expand teaching and preaching into the digital space 18:24-20:00 - The future of short-form video content 20:00-21:24 - The difference between a sermon and teaching online 21:24-22:23 - Short-form content is very digestible 22:23-23:44 - The advantage we have as church leaders in the digital space 23:44-32:50 - How to get started 32:51-35:28 - Fulfilling the Great Commission through Digital means TRANSCRIPT Nick Clason (00:00): Years ago, right? Uh, so 22. Yeah. Wow Matthew Johnson (00:05): Man. Nick Clason (00:05): And I didn't do the beard, right? Matthew Johnson (00:07): Yeah. You were doing the chin strap back then. Nick Clason (00:09): Yeah, I had that for oh gosh. And it was like, not very much. Matthew Johnson (00:13): no, , it's like just subtle it up. Nick Clason (00:19): Yeah. And now I've got this gigantic thing. Matthew Johnson (00:23): I love it. Nick Clason (00:25): Well, Hey everyone. Welcome to hybrid ministry podcast. On today's episode, we are gonna talk about how your church can reach gen Z and millennials here in 2022. Um, I'm your host, Nick Clason, along here with my friend, Matt Johnson, Matt, how you doing? Matthew Johnson (00:43): Doing right? It's uh, a little early. I see the sun rising right now of the sky, but it's actually very peaceful and I'm loving it. Nick Clason (00:51): Yeah. You have coffee going yet or did you just, yeah. Okay. Smart. Smart. Matthew Johnson (00:55): Got some cold brew right here. Nick Clason (00:57): Nice. Okay. So, uh, I wanna talk about this idea of hybrid, you know, and, uh, like, like we said, in the pilot, there's a lot of, there's a lot of thought. I think amongst church leaders about, um, digital being kind of pitted against physical, um, and Barna actually came out with the study recently. I'm sure you've seen this because you're the one who told me to look at it. uh, that said, um, a solely digital church expression is wanted by only about 9% of Christians. So, um, when you read that, do you feel like that's a, do you feel like that is a push towards the, the physical expression? Like what would be your response to that? Matthew Johnson (01:40): Yeah, when I read that, it there's, I think there's a lot there in this study that Barnett did, but specifically this stat, what stood out the most about it is that when COVID happened, the answer was immediately, well, everything has to go a hundred percent digital or we're staying a hundred percent physical. There was no conversation about an in between at all. And you rooted uprooted people from their, you know, their daily lives, their weekly habits of every Sunday morning, I wake up and I, you know, go to my local church down the street or whatever to, okay. I gotta sit in my living room and watch church. And there's a huge disconnect that you started feeling with that. So, um, I think that's why digital church is drastically dropped and you can kind of see those numbers at, in the church in general. Um, and I mean, the stats says it all only 9% of, you know, Christians want only digital, which is not very high when you look at, you know, Christian numbers. So, um, but what it does say is there's still people that want that. So that's something we have to also keep in mind as we go forward. Nick Clason (02:54): Yeah. And if you, if you read on it actually says, um, so only 9% say they, they only that, and I think that that word only is what's key there. Right. Because it says one third express that some sort of hybrid option would suit them. Well. Yeah. So that's, that's 33%. Right. And then as you, as you inspect deeper into the generational gaps, millennials and gen Z are just as likely to choose a hybrid option as they are to choose a physical option. So 40 versus 42%. So like that, and that's the wave of the future, right? Yep. So, so what in your mind, like, what does, what, what does a hybrid option even look like? Or do we know, or do we know yet? Matthew Johnson (03:40): I don't think we have so a solid answer, but I think we have a lot of, um, balls rolling at different churches around the nation and you can kind of start seeing what a hybrid option looks like. So, uh, a good example, some of good examples that you could think of that. I mean, everyone talks about life. Church, life church is a great digital presence. Mm-hmm, , you know, they're live online. I mean, pretty much every time I go to their website, this says we're live right now. So , um, which is honestly why, uh, life church has probably been able to hit the millennial demographic better than most big mega churches have been able to. Matthew Johnson (04:23): Interesting because they have had that option where, Hey, I can go to church. Um, life church has locations everywhere now, but also I can just watch online. And that's the key to this. What we're talking about is like reaching these younger people. So even millennials who we are starting to see have kind of been a forgotten generation when it comes to the Christian world, the gen Z, who, um, we're starting to realize are going to be forgotten. And we have no idea how to talk to gen Z. Uh, how do we get these younger people involved with church as much as they are involved with other aspects of their life. Um, and if we can have that hybrid option, which really in my mind, we need to have an offering that they can do as much as possible as they can in the digital realm of your church, but have the reliability of coming to the church for all the major stuff. So crisises, um, community questions, mm-hmm, , uh, like, uh, conversations. Cause we know, especially you being a pastor, you know, you can have a way better conversation with somebody if they come have a coffee with you, then if they just tweet at you. Nick Clason (05:49): Yeah, for sure. So, well, and, and a step that you always remind me of is 51% of gen Z have said that they prefer online only as a discipleship option. Yep. And that's literally half can't get more. Yeah. I mean it's a little more than half, but so it's like, that is important and that that's half of our demographic. And so if we, as a church for sake, uh, any form or any sort of digital, uh, we're missing half of a generation based on what they say that they want. Yep. Nick Clason (06:22): And so we gotta, we can, we don't have to do that. We don't have to pursue after that, but we just have to know what the cost of that is gonna be. And the, I, I just think that the church is in a spot where they're the church being the capital C church, like in person, church, attendance trends are different and I get it cuz digital costs money. And so with attendance, a lot of times follows money. And so you gotta make sure that you have what it takes to, to staff towards these things and to pay for these things and have the budget for these things. Right. But yep. But uh, if we don't, we're just gonna continue to reach people as they are aging, older and older as gen Z, millennials are finding their worth meaning and value over on TikTok or on YouTube. Matthew Johnson (07:10): Yeah, exactly. And I mean, you can already see this trend of the younger generation's faith faltering drastically, like the Gallup study that you and I just talked about where, you know, uh, we went from 78% of 18 to 35 year olds had faith in God to now we're down to 68% and that's in what, six years. So that is, um, crazy, crazy aspect that we're not thinking about. And I'm telling you, um, we can keep doing church the way we've always done it, but the church is just gonna consistently be behind. And there's the running joke in the church world. And the church world is always five years late. You know, we always, you know, oh yeah, we're finally gonna add a guitar on stage. And everyone's like, well, rock music been around for 15 years. So, um, that's just the running church joke. We're a little slower to adapt, but we can't be slow to adapt in this climate because every day that we take our time on adapting is faith is all deteriorating. Hmm. So that's something we gotta keep in mind. Nick Clason (08:20): Well, and I, and you know, I wanna be clear like you and I like, we're not people that are like over here trying to like crap on the church. Like, oh, we love the church and Matthew Johnson (08:29): Yeah. We work at a church, so Nick Clason (08:31): Yeah. And we think that the church is like, I believe that Jesus made the church, his primary number one, uh, right. Yeah. Way to way to reach the world, you know? So like I think there's good things out there. I think there's good para church type ministries. Good, good people like on TikTok and YouTube trying to do things, but like the church should enter into this space, you know, and not just leave it up for some 15 year old influencer, you Matthew Johnson (08:56): Know? Exactly. Yep. Yeah. The church is not going anywhere. I wanna be clear about that. Like the church is solid, we're strong, it's the church just needs a little bit of a, a shift in, you know, it's something that everyone is talking about currently. Nick Clason (09:09): So, so Barnett had an interesting thing in their study, um, and they called it digital openness. So that's church adults who were defined as having digital openness. And so these are sort of the five kind markers of that. So I just wanna run through them. And then when you, and I can kind of think about, 'em talk about 'em the first one is, um, uh, a church adult with digital openness sees the value of attending an online church service. Um, they also think that churches should use digital resources for spiritual formation or discipleship purposes, post pandemic. They think that churches should use digital resources for gathering their people together after the pandemic as well. Number four, they say either hybrid. So both a digital and a physical or a primarily digital church will best fit their lifestyle after the pandemic. And they're open to attending new kinds of online gatherings that are unfamiliar. Nick Clason (10:07): So like we said, this is the type of, I feel like, I mean, you're millennial, I'm a millennial. Like these are things that like both you and I would hold as values, like having, having an option to attend something. Like, I guess the starkest picture I have of it. Matt is a couple weeks ago in our youth ministry. I was in the room. Um, and we were meeting in the room with our teenagers and leaders. And um, one of my leaders had a question about an event coming up and rather than her tracking me down, uh, she pulled up our website to try and find an answer to it. Um, and she, but she couldn't. And so we're in the room and she's on her online device trying to figure it out. And she's trying to, she's trying to get answers to it until finally she's like, Hey, like she's flagged me down as I was walking by. Nick Clason (10:57): And she's like, I can't find the answer to it. And I was like, oh, well that's cuz we didn't put it on there. Um, so that's our fault, but I just, again, right. Like that's an example right there of where digital meets physical. Like that's the type of world that we're living in. And I don't think that in the church in general, I don't think we're thinking about it often in that type of way. I think we're like trying to replicate a physical expression onto digital mm-hmm and I don't know, I, I do think that people are tired of that post COVID, but I do think that there are other avenues or other, um, other ways that people can try, uh, that churches can try to enter into that kind of hybrid space. So mm-hmm um, and another thing I thought was interesting, I'll read through these and then wanna kind of chat and just pick your brain as, yeah. Nick Clason (11:43): These, these are some of the options, um, of things that people thought could be like a, a digital expression or like a hybrid version. Right? So teaching slash preaching, one-on-one prayer, small groups, all of this in like the hybrid space, worship, prayer visitation, confession children's ministry, youth ministry, adult ministry, the number one option on there was teaching and preaching. And I find that so interesting that that was the thing that, that people thought was the number one option, um, of them to be able to, uh, experience something digitally mm-hmm . So for some reason I said this to you the other day. So for some reason in the church, the, the, we determined the most effective way to communicate theological truth was through a pastor preaching in a pulpit mm-hmm , that's no longer the most effective way. And I think for a lot of us in church, like that's a little bit of a terrifying proposition, cuz that, that means we're getting rid of something that is age old and, and someone we've been doing for years. And I'm, I'm not, I'm not even sure I necessarily want to do that either. But the fact is like, we, we now have the internet, we now have podcasts. We now have all kinds of other ways that we can communicate theological truths. So what are some of those ways that you could see the church stepping in to sort of that hybrid space and some of those, you know, arenas. Cause I think if, if you're the average person listening to this, you're like, okay, all these thoughts sound great, but like what should I do? Matthew Johnson (13:21): Yeah. Where do I, where do I start at? Yeah. So a big thing I even wanna highlight is this is just church adults that are saying this, so this Nick Clason (13:29): That's Matthew Johnson (13:29): Good point. Yeah. This isn't even like our agnostic, the atheist, the spiritually questioning people at all. This is just your people that are in your congregation right now are saying they need this mm-hmm um, so when I, uh, some good examples of some easy things that you can start doing today, um, that do that, don't take a lot of time and if you wanna, they can grow and they, they can be a good foundation building block for you. So, uh, first of all, teaching and preaching with record, just throw a camera up, record, whatever you're teaching your preaching is honestly. Um, we do know if you're trying to reach your church. People like honestly, all you could do is just throw that as an audio and make that a podcast and put that on your website and say, Hey, here's pastor bills or, uh, you know, pastor Toms, you know, sermon from this last week or whatever, something super easy that you guys can start creating the digital presence. Matthew Johnson (14:34): But some other easy stuff is like, just create a Facebook group for your church. Um, just, uh, or if you have like multiple different ministries in your church, create Facebook groups for all of them, invite your volunteers into there, invite the people that, you know, wanna be involved with those groups and start cultivating those relationships in a setting that is designed for that. And, uh, you're gonna realize most people, especially, uh, higher millennial up are gonna be very open to going into those Facebook groups. Now, when you're trying to hit gen Z and stuff, you're gonna have to get a little more creative with what your digital presence looks like. Um, cuz we know, first of all, they're slowly going off of Instagram. We know they're not really involved on Facebook anymore. And really the world that's they're they're in is like TikTok and Snapchat mm-hmm um, and those avenues are just vastly different, but I mean download TikTok and start making some fun videos. If you fill up to it, uh, there's some easy wins that you could start doing right now. And then if you really wanna start like strategizing, okay, what can we do? Um, as a church here is like digitally, uh, do you have a church bulletin that you give out every week that you're still printing, make that digital, just put that online. You can still have it physical, but give a digital option for it. Um, yeah, Nick Clason (15:58): At least let the people be able to find it on Tuesday night. Exactly. If they have a question about the, the Wednesday event coming up tomorrow, Matthew Johnson (16:05): Exactly like have, have all that in mind for any resources you're making and I guarantee you're making this stuff on your computer, so just upload it digitally instead of printing it and make a easy avenue for people to access that stuff. So, um, those are some quick easy wins. And then if we wanna get more complex, you know, there's thousands and thousands of things we can Nick Clason (16:29): Start to do. Yeah. Well, I mean I'm thinking, right. So if in this list here that I read already teaching preaching 1 0 1 small groups, uh, 1 0 1 prayer, small groups, worship visitation, confession children's youth adult ministry, the number one option out of that was teaching. Yeah. So we can deliver, um, our teaching yes. On a Sunday morning in a large group gathering of some sort, but both through, like you're saying ripping down audio, maybe throwing up a camera and creating it, uh, a video to put on YouTube. We can take that content though and repurpose it. And so, especially as we're talking gen Z, um, and millennials, uh, you know, I remember you telling me the other day, like everything on Instagram and Facebook is trending towards Instagram, uh, and Facebook reals. Yeah. Because they're trying to keep up with TikTok. Yep. And so this short form video is kind of king right now, at least at the time of this recording. Nick Clason (17:27): And yeah, we in the church are in the business of content creation. We create content every single week. So what if we just took and parsed out elements of our sermon from Sunday morning and just shot that in some sort of short form video content, like either leading up to the sermon or, uh, coming after the sermon, operating as some sort of like recap or something and just shooting it in with a little bit of a different mindset, same content, take all your study, everything you did, all the passages that you studied and did exegesis on. And then just bring that into like a one minute short form video and start flooding some of those places. I think that's a way that you can, you can take your digital or I'm sorry, your physical expression and bring it out into a digital world and kind of lean into that. That hybridness would you, what do you think about that? Matthew Johnson (18:22): Oh, I can't agree more and even speed of short term content, Instagram believes in it so much that they literally, this week as we're recording this updated Instagram, that every video is now real. So they have said, Nick Clason (18:36): I saw that yesterday. Yeah. I, I saw, I was like what? That's a real, yeah. Matthew Johnson (18:39): Yeah. So they're, they're saying this is where we're headed and it's to compete with TikTok. Um, so yeah, take your teaching and your preaching and just splice that up into some one minute service, uh, one minute clips and stuff. And let me talk, it's super easy to be able to do that. Um, I mean you can do that an I movie that's already on your iPhone or you can download a free video software, like black magic that is very easy to do on, I know it's a crazy name, black magic, but don't get scared by it. It's just a company and, uh, you can, uh, you know, start cutting up video today and honestly start, uh, growing your digital presence there, um, very easily. Nick Clason (19:23): So you, yeah, so you can either record your sermon and take clips off of that. Um, but I, I personally think if you don't, you know, if you don't have the technology for that, you don't have a camera set in the back of the room yet, and you're just starting in this, like all start recording audio, like the best camera that you have access to is the one in your pocket. Yep. You know, the, the, the, the phone now they say has more computing power than the computer that landed us on the moon. Oh yeah. Uh, back with NASA and, and Armstrong and everything like that. So just get your phone out and record short five short form videos as like, just snippets of your sermon, you know? Yep. And the difference, you know, Matt, like I was telling, I was talking about this last week with some of our team, like the difference between a sermon and a sermon. Nick Clason (20:08): You keep, you kind of build to like a climax and then you like have like a grand reveal at the end. Um, uh, social media is different. Like you gotta hit, you gotta hit your, your topics straight away. Um, and not, not hold it back. And so for preachers, sometimes it's a little bit of a different, uh, philosophy, right. But if you get on TikTok and you start exploring, you'll learn kind of that archetype pretty fast, you know? Yeah. That's anyone who's good and performing well on there. They're probably using that, that strategy. Yep. So have a compelling hook, um, and have some compelling text there. That's gonna stop the scroll because what, like, what's the average watch time on TikTok, Matthew Johnson (20:50): Like right now. Nick Clason (20:52): Yeah. I don't know. Like it's, it feels like if it's not good, you're just gonna swipe right. Past it to the next Matthew Johnson (20:56): Thing about, yeah. I mean, usually the average watch time is about seven seconds, which is why TikTok seven, second videos typically get pushed higher in their algorithm. Nick Clason (21:05): Yeah. And even as a church, you can even take some sermon content and put that in a seven second video. Right. Like you can, you can do one of those videos that has like way too much text to read in seven seconds. And so it's gonna force people to rewatch it, which is also gonna tell the algorithm like, Hey, this is a good video show this to more people. Matthew Johnson (21:25): Yes. Yep. And something else that's super important about that short form content right now is the fact of how digestible it is. Yeah. So when you're reaching millennial and gen Z and we're, let's think of like youth leaders, you're mostly gonna be reaching you to gen Z right now. Um, you're going, they're gonna want that short, digestible content that they can share with other people, or they don't have to think wrong about at all. So that content doesn't have to be the super polished piece. Mm-hmm I, I want to like, make sure that we're pretty clear about that. Like if you look at YouTube, um, and what people are watching, like most of these guys are just, you know, taking their iPhone and they're recording themselves and then they post it and it's get millions of views now. So, uh, that as long as the content is solid and it's short and digestible, you're gonna be totally fine. Nick Clason (22:23): Yeah. And I, I think that's the piece that, that also, so, you know, number one, we are content creators by nature in the church. And then number two, uh, the level of Polish, uh, has really diminished. In fact, I think some, some things that are so polished are sometimes a little bit of a turnoff mm-hmm to gen Z and millennials. And so both of those things bode well for you and I, because I don't need a several thousand dollars camera aside from the one that's already, probably on my phone. Right. Yeah. And I don't, I don't need to re like, gosh, man, I can't imagine if I was like a washer and dryer company trying to do social media. Like, what would I do? But I'm a church. Like I have, I have hundreds and thousands of pieces of content on my hard drive right now of old sermons. I've preached, like I can dust those off and I can turn those into short form video content and use it as a way to, you know, to reach people. So, yeah. Um, and it's not even, it's not even bad, like, it's, there's a lot of like serious or like thought provoking things on TikTok. It's not just dancing and, and trend videos. Like those things are on there for sure. But you know, like you can, you can, uh, find an audience there on, on TikTok, super easy by doing some type of stuff. Matthew Johnson (23:42): So, absolutely. Yeah. Nick Clason (23:44): So, um, if, if Matt, if, um, you were someone's, um, marketing consultant and they were saying, Hey, we have nothing. You know, we don't even record our sermons. We don't have a camera in the back of the room. Um, what are the, what was be three to five things that within the next like month, you could see a church maybe start to start to take steps towards, to enter more into this hybrid world to reach millennials and gen Z. Matthew Johnson (24:10): Oh yeah. So let's see, you have no digital presence at all. You're a church of, you know, 300, let's say a hundred. Yeah. Small plant. Um, just getting going. Uh, I was actually just talking to a church that has 50 in Denver. Um, and, uh, some of the stuff I would tell you is, okay, so create a Facebook page, start there, get a Facebook page going and a Facebook group going for your church. And just, Nick Clason (24:38): And by the page, you mean the, like the business, the thing so that you could be able to run ads off that if you wanted to Matthew Johnson (24:45): Yeah. Yeah. Creative Facebook business page, um, for your church, that is just a place that people can come like and make comments and you can start posting content on. So Sunday morning, pull out your phone, take a photo of the outside of your building and just say, come join us and give me the service times or whatever, like start, just start, um, pushing stuff on to digital platforms. And I also say create a Facebook group. Um, whatever that group looks like for you, I would really strategize and think about what you're trying to do with it. Um, don't just create a Facebook group just cuz oh, you know, these guys are telling me to create a Facebook group, like think about what that group should be, but really that group should be a place that your community can come together and start talking to each other. And there's not a lot of work you have to do for that. You create the Facebook group, you come in and put a post and let people facilitate those conversations. And if it gets, uh, little rowdy or crazy, you can start, you know, facilitating it. But I highly doubt that's gonna happen as you're getting going. Um, Nick Clason (25:46): Well, and you can even do like, and like you're saying like strategize, right? So you can be like, okay, every Monday we're gonna post like the, the song set from Sunday or something like that. Exactly. And then every, every Wednesday we're gonna do a Facebook live at noon and the pastor's gonna jump on and do a devotional. Then every Friday we're gonna do like a funny Friday and we're gonna post like a meme or something like that. Exactly. It can be that skeleton of a, a strategy because in a group you're hoping that everyone else kind of drives the conversation. And so you don't even really unlike Instagram or unlike TikTok, where you have to continually kind of feed the content yep. A group you can let the other people be like, be creating that Matthew Johnson (26:24): Absolutely like post post questions. Like what can we be praying for you for this week? Uh, what's going on in the community this week? Is there any volunteer opportunities like really get that conversation, just going, just spark the conversation and sit back and let everyone go. Um, Nick Clason (26:39): Okay. So get on Facebook, Matthew Johnson (26:40): Get on Facebook. Yep. And then, uh, another great thing is to start, like we said, making short term video, short term video content, and I'm, if you don't have a smartphone, which there's probably not a lot of us out here, that'd be listening to this podcast right now that don't have a smartphone. Um, so pull out your smartphone, take your sermon notes that just look at your sermon notes and find the minute chunks in there that you like and record that real quick vertical. Just shoot it vertical, throw it on your Facebook. Um, you can from Facebook post it strike to Instagram. Mm-hmm and there's not a lot of work there for you and that's gonna start getting your digital presence up too. And I, what I say is like, find those minute chunks, or even if you are like, you, you could speak into this more too, Nick, cuz you're obviously a pastor, but like, you know, you write your sermon and you go, okay, I know I'm gonna summarize this in a minute. I have my synopsis of what this is like record that though that on camera. Nick Clason (27:45): Um, yeah, honestly, I'm like it's, it's, , it's a little bit of a bummer how I can like preach a message for 30 minutes and then I can take my outline and basically summarize it in five minutes and do a five part series on TikTok. And I'm like, oh, what was I doing up there for 30 minutes? Matthew Johnson (28:03): You just have more stories of illustrations and Nick Clason (28:06): You. Exactly. And then the other thing you'd say is try and start recording your, your audio so that you can have a audio podcast. Would that be one of your things or is that not even as high on the list for Matthew Johnson (28:18): You? Um, Matthew Johnson (28:21): So the thing is, is if you have a audio set up at all at your church, so usually you, you know, it could be the most basic soundboard in the world, which you probably have right now you can throw an SD card and their press record while you're on stage. So I would say, yeah, go ahead and make your audio content a podcast right now, as long as you have that soundboard. Um, but I'm, if you have a mic set, as long as you're not, you know, using a mic, like a karaoke mic, you should be able to do that, but don't go buy new equipment yet until you're ready for that next step. Cuz here's what happened during the pandemic and all these guys I talked to as I was consulting with churches and figuring out how to help them go digital or okay, I'm gonna go buy these three Sony cameras. Matthew Johnson (29:07): We're gonna have this three camera set up. Uh, we're gonna have some students in the back, you know, try to figure out what we're doing. Hey, uh, Matt, what is all the equipment I need? And my answer always was like, first of all, okay, if you had the budget for equipment, let's talk, but don't go get the top tier of anything. You don't know where this is headed for you guys. So yeah. Tweak your time. Um, and really have a figure out that strategy, not just the, oh, everyone's doing this, so I need to do this before you go do it. So, um, yeah, get that podcast going, uh, the audio for that podcast or whatever that looks like for your congregation or your group going, that's gonna help you digitally. Um, and then, you know, another easy thing to do is, like I said, you know, post that short term content on like, uh, Instagram and Facebook. Like if you are already starting to post social and stuff, like start posting doesn't necessarily like not graphics per se, but like just take a photo outside and go, how can I be praying through this week? Nick Clason (30:14): Yeah. Matthew Johnson (30:15): Or, uh, take a photo of worship this week and go, Hey, what worship songs would you wanna see this? You know, this semester or whatever, like you can start asking those questions that are related to those options that you were talking about earlier. So, um, you can really start figuring out what it is that people are looking for with your group. Nick Clason (30:35): Yeah, well like we recently doubled down in our student ministry on, on TikTok and on reels. Um, and we actually pulled back on some of the more formal, uh, or traditional styles of posting like on Instagram or whatever. Yeah. And we just used, uh, we're just using our short form video content sort of supplement in those areas. So for example, like I was trying to post a story a day and I was trying to post something on the Instagram feed a day and I scaled those back cuz I saw those starting to underperform a little bit mm-hmm um, but I saw our reels and our TikTok content starting to skyrocket. And so I was like, all right, instead of five things a day or five things a week on the feed, let's just move it down to three, make it really quality content, like get a nice photo. Nick Clason (31:23): Um, and then the rest, um, of everything and just throw, throw that short form video content. So again, like we were saying, depending on when you're listening to this at the time of the recording like that right now is everything. Yeah. And the beautiful thing is that doesn't require a lot of, you know, like software knowhow, like you can edit right in the app, like TikTok has a decent editor. So does reels, like you don't have to have Adobe premiere pro or any video skills. And like you said, you have, you have the ability to just shoot that kind of raw on the cell phone. That's sitting already in your pocket. So yeah. And what was that back to podcasting? What's that HubSpot stat? You said about uh, uh, the average adult and podcast. Matthew Johnson (32:10): Yeah. Listenership. Yeah. I think it's 84% of people listen to eight hours of podcast a week. And I know I'm one of those guys, like, you know, I've, I've always listened to podcast. You don't even realize how much is I listen to when I run, I listen to, when I drive, I listen to it. When I'm cooking, I listen to it when I'm doing housework, like I'm always listening to, you know, my podcast. So, um, you wanna be where people are. So as you start seeing where your people are, know that to go for them and you're gonna hear people go, well, I don't listen to podcasts. Remember we are, we're here talking about millennial and gen Z. They listen to podcasts. yeah, I promise so Nick Clason (32:51): Well, I think that's a great way to put the, I think great way to end it. You said go where people are, cuz that's what this is about. And if we look, if we pull this all the way back from, from the great commission of Jesus, which is to go out and make disciples of all nations like it, when, when we dovetail that off of the acts one eight, uh, commission, where he says, you'll be my witnesses in Jerusalem, Judea Samaria, and then ultimately to the ends of the earth, it's this ripple effect. But it starts where you are. So find where the people are. Yeah. There's, there's a quote that said theology is all the more important today because there are so many messages being delivered into your home that you need to be able to determine then what is actually true? that quote came from CS Lewis in the 1950s. Nick Clason (33:37): Yeah. When the advent of television was coming into the, to the American and, and world's home, right? Imagine the, the importance of that same idea, that same quote now with not only television, but internet, YouTube, TikTok, cell phones, advertising, all the things like that. Like the, the time is now like the amount of untruth that's out there. And so the world needs you, the world needs your church and your people and millennials and gen Z. Like they, they do, I, what I've seen as a youth pastor, they do care about spiritual stuff. Oh yeah. They just don't think the church wants to talk about the spiritual stuff that matters to them. Yeah. So don't be afraid to Wade into that space because oh yeah. Because relationship equals influence and so you can help to start build that through, uh, some of your digital channels. Matthew Johnson (34:30): Mm-hmm yep. Totally agree. Nick Clason (34:33): All right. Well I think that'll do it for us, uh, today. Any, any final thoughts, Matt? Matthew Johnson (34:39): No, just go get it and just start, you know? Yeah. Go, just start. Um, your digital presence. That's all I can say. Like that's the thing that we, we can sit here and talk to strategize, but just go shoot your first video. Go create your Facebook or whatever that looks like. Just take that first step. You guys got this. Nick Clason (34:56): Yeah. Well, Hey forever. You update on this. Follow us on Twitter at hybrid ministry, uh, website is hybrid ministry.xyz because of course.com was taken and uh, and uh, yeah. Be sure to subscribe, share it with friends. And uh, we'll talk to you guys next time. Matthew Johnson (35:14): Hey, thanks guys. Millennials, Gen Z, Generation Z, Digital, Ministry, Discipleship, Evangelism, Church, Reach Millennials and Gen Z are increasingly harder and harder to reach. And add to that the shifting trends of church attendance. The honest truth is a lot of us as pastors aren’t exactly sure what to do. And pair with that all the difficulties that have come post-covid. How can we enter into this digital and physical world and reach Millennials and Gen Z with a more Hybrid approach to our ministry?

Follow along on twitter - twitter.com/hybridministry

Or find full transcripts and show notes at http://www.hybridministry.xyz

TIMECODES
00:00-0:58 – Intro
0:58-3:35 - Does Digital Ministry matter post-covid?
3:36-7:09 - What could a Hybrid Model even look like?
7:09-9:09 - The faltering faith of younger generations
9:09-13:43 - Inspecting Digital openness amongst Church attenders
13:43-16:29 - How to get started in the Digital Space
16:29-18:24 - How to expand teaching and preaching into the digital space
18:24-20:00 - The future of short-form video content
20:00-21:24 - The difference between a sermon and teaching online
21:24-22:23 - Short-form content is very digestible
22:23-23:44 - The advantage we have as church leaders in the digital space
23:44-32:50 - How to get started
32:51-35:28 - Fulfilling the Great Commission through Digital means

TRANSCRIPT
Nick Clason (00:00):
Years ago, right? Uh, so 22. Yeah. Wow

Matthew Johnson (00:05):
Man.

Nick Clason (00:05):
And I didn't do the beard, right?

Matthew Johnson (00:07):
Yeah. You were doing the chin strap back then.

Nick Clason (00:09):
Yeah, I had that for oh gosh. And it was like, not very much.

Matthew Johnson (00:13):
no, , it's like just subtle it up.

Nick Clason (00:19):
Yeah. And now I've got this gigantic thing.

Matthew Johnson (00:23):
I love it.

Nick Clason (00:25):
Well, Hey everyone. Welcome to hybrid ministry podcast. On today's episode, we are gonna talk about how your church can reach gen Z and millennials here in 2022. Um, I'm your host, Nick Clason, along here with my friend, Matt Johnson, Matt, how you doing?

Matthew Johnson (00:43):
Doing right? It's uh, a little early. I see the sun rising right now of the sky, but it's actually very peaceful and I'm loving it.

Nick Clason (00:51):
Yeah. You have coffee going yet or did you just, yeah. Okay. Smart. Smart.

Matthew Johnson (00:55):
Got some cold brew right here.

Nick Clason (00:57):
Nice. Okay. So, uh, I wanna talk about this idea of hybrid, you know, and, uh, like, like we said, in the pilot, there's a lot of, there's a lot of thought. I think amongst church leaders about, um, digital being kind of pitted against physical, um, and Barna actually came out with the study recently. I'm sure you've seen this because you're the one who told me to look at it. uh, that said, um, a solely digital church expression is wanted by only about 9% of Christians. So, um, when you read that, do you feel like that's a, do you feel like that is a push towards the, the physical expression? Like what would be your response to that?

Matthew Johnson (01:40):
Yeah, when I read that, it there's, I think there's a lot there in this study that Barnett did, but specifically this stat, what stood out the most about it is that when COVID happened, the answer was immediately, well, everything has to go a hundred percent digital or we're staying a hundred percent physical. There was no conversation about an in between at all. And you rooted uprooted people from their, you know, their daily lives, their weekly habits of every Sunday morning, I wake up and I, you know, go to my local church down the street or whatever to, okay. I gotta sit in my living room and watch church. And there's a huge disconnect that you started feeling with that. So, um, I think that's why digital church is drastically dropped and you can kind of see those numbers at, in the church in general. Um, and I mean, the stats says it all only 9% of, you know, Christians want only digital, which is not very high when you look at, you know, Christian numbers. So, um, but what it does say is there's still people that want that. So that's something we have to also keep in mind as we go forward.

Nick Clason (02:54):
Yeah. And if you, if you read on it actually says, um, so only 9% say they, they only that, and I think that that word only is what's key there. Right. Because it says one third express that some sort of hybrid option would suit them. Well. Yeah. So that's, that's 33%. Right. And then as you, as you inspect deeper into the generational gaps, millennials and gen Z are just as likely to choose a hybrid option as they are to choose a physical option. So 40 versus 42%. So like that, and that's the wave of the future, right? Yep. So, so what in your mind, like, what does, what, what does a hybrid option even look like? Or do we know, or do we know yet?

Matthew Johnson (03:40):
I don't think we have so a solid answer, but I think we have a lot of, um, balls rolling at different churches around the nation and you can kind of start seeing what a hybrid option looks like. So, uh, a good example, some of good examples that you could think of that. I mean, everyone talks about life. Church, life church is a great digital presence. Mm-hmm, , you know, they're live online. I mean, pretty much every time I go to their website, this says we're live right now. So , um, which is honestly why, uh, life church has probably been able to hit the millennial demographic better than most big mega churches have been able to.

Matthew Johnson (04:23):
Interesting because they have had that option where, Hey, I can go to church. Um, life church has locations everywhere now, but also I can just watch online. And that's the key to this. What we're talking about is like reaching these younger people. So even millennials who we are starting to see have kind of been a forgotten generation when it comes to the Christian world, the gen Z, who, um, we're starting to realize are going to be forgotten. And we have no idea how to talk to gen Z. Uh, how do we get these younger people involved with church as much as they are involved with other aspects of their life. Um, and if we can have that hybrid option, which really in my mind, we need to have an offering that they can do as much as possible as they can in the digital realm of your church, but have the reliability of coming to the church for all the major stuff. So crisises, um, community questions, mm-hmm, , uh, like, uh, conversations. Cause we know, especially you being a pastor, you know, you can have a way better conversation with somebody if they come have a coffee with you, then if they just tweet at you.

Nick Clason (05:49):
Yeah, for sure. So, well, and, and a step that you always remind me of is 51% of gen Z have said that they prefer online only as a discipleship option. Yep. And that's literally half can't get more. Yeah. I mean it's a little more than half, but so it's like, that is important and that that's half of our demographic. And so if we, as a church for sake, uh, any form or any sort of digital, uh, we're missing half of a generation based on what they say that they want. Yep.

Nick Clason (06:22):
And so we gotta, we can, we don't have to do that. We don't have to pursue after that, but we just have to know what the cost of that is gonna be. And the, I, I just think that the church is in a spot where they're the church being the capital C church, like in person, church, attendance trends are different and I get it cuz digital costs money. And so with attendance, a lot of times follows money. And so you gotta make sure that you have what it takes to, to staff towards these things and to pay for these things and have the budget for these things. Right. But yep. But uh, if we don't, we're just gonna continue to reach people as they are aging, older and older as gen Z, millennials are finding their worth meaning and value over on TikTok or on YouTube.

Matthew Johnson (07:10):
Yeah, exactly. And I mean, you can already see this trend of the younger generation's faith faltering drastically, like the Gallup study that you and I just talked about where, you know, uh, we went from 78% of 18 to 35 year olds had faith in God to now we're down to 68% and that's in what, six years. So that is, um, crazy, crazy aspect that we're not thinking about. And I'm telling you, um, we can keep doing church the way we've always done it, but the church is just gonna consistently be behind. And there's the running joke in the church world. And the church world is always five years late. You know, we always, you know, oh yeah, we're finally gonna add a guitar on stage. And everyone's like, well, rock music been around for 15 years. So, um, that's just the running church joke. We're a little slower to adapt, but we can't be slow to adapt in this climate because every day that we take our time on adapting is faith is all deteriorating. Hmm. So that's something we gotta keep in mind.

Nick Clason (08:20):
Well, and I, and you know, I wanna be clear like you and I like, we're not people that are like over here trying to like crap on the church. Like, oh, we love the church and

Matthew Johnson (08:29):
Yeah. We work at a church, so

Nick Clason (08:31):
Yeah. And we think that the church is like, I believe that Jesus made the church, his primary number one, uh, right. Yeah. Way to way to reach the world, you know? So like I think there's good things out there. I think there's good para church type ministries. Good, good people like on TikTok and YouTube trying to do things, but like the church should enter into this space, you know, and not just leave it up for some 15 year old influencer, you

Matthew Johnson (08:56):
Know? Exactly. Yep. Yeah. The church is not going anywhere. I wanna be clear about that. Like the church is solid, we're strong, it's the church just needs a little bit of a, a shift in, you know, it's something that everyone is talking about currently.

Nick Clason (09:09):
So, so Barnett had an interesting thing in their study, um, and they called it digital openness. So that's church adults who were defined as having digital openness. And so these are sort of the five kind markers of that. So I just wanna run through them. And then when you, and I can kind of think about, 'em talk about 'em the first one is, um, uh, a church adult with digital openness sees the value of attending an online church service. Um, they also think that churches should use digital resources for spiritual formation or discipleship purposes, post pandemic. They think that churches should use digital resources for gathering their people together after the pandemic as well. Number four, they say either hybrid. So both a digital and a physical or a primarily digital church will best fit their lifestyle after the pandemic. And they're open to attending new kinds of online gatherings that are unfamiliar.

Nick Clason (10:07):
So like we said, this is the type of, I feel like, I mean, you're millennial, I'm a millennial. Like these are things that like both you and I would hold as values, like having, having an option to attend something. Like, I guess the starkest picture I have of it. Matt is a couple weeks ago in our youth ministry. I was in the room. Um, and we were meeting in the room with our teenagers and leaders. And um, one of my leaders had a question about an event coming up and rather than her tracking me down, uh, she pulled up our website to try and find an answer to it. Um, and she, but she couldn't. And so we're in the room and she's on her online device trying to figure it out. And she's trying to, she's trying to get answers to it until finally she's like, Hey, like she's flagged me down as I was walking by.

Nick Clason (10:57):
And she's like, I can't find the answer to it. And I was like, oh, well that's cuz we didn't put it on there. Um, so that's our fault, but I just, again, right. Like that's an example right there of where digital meets physical. Like that's the type of world that we're living in. And I don't think that in the church in general, I don't think we're thinking about it often in that type of way. I think we're like trying to replicate a physical expression onto digital mm-hmm and I don't know, I, I do think that people are tired of that post COVID, but I do think that there are other avenues or other, um, other ways that people can try, uh, that churches can try to enter into that kind of hybrid space. So mm-hmm um, and another thing I thought was interesting, I'll read through these and then wanna kind of chat and just pick your brain as, yeah.

Nick Clason (11:43):
These, these are some of the options, um, of things that people thought could be like a, a digital expression or like a hybrid version. Right? So teaching slash preaching, one-on-one prayer, small groups, all of this in like the hybrid space, worship, prayer visitation, confession children's ministry, youth ministry, adult ministry, the number one option on there was teaching and preaching. And I find that so interesting that that was the thing that, that people thought was the number one option, um, of them to be able to, uh, experience something digitally mm-hmm . So for some reason I said this to you the other day. So for some reason in the church, the, the, we determined the most effective way to communicate theological truth was through a pastor preaching in a pulpit mm-hmm , that's no longer the most effective way. And I think for a lot of us in church, like that's a little bit of a terrifying proposition, cuz that, that means we're getting rid of something that is age old and, and someone we've been doing for years. And I'm, I'm not, I'm not even sure I necessarily want to do that either. But the fact is like, we, we now have the internet, we now have podcasts. We now have all kinds of other ways that we can communicate theological truths. So what are some of those ways that you could see the church stepping in to sort of that hybrid space and some of those, you know, arenas. Cause I think if, if you're the average person listening to this, you're like, okay, all these thoughts sound great, but like what should I do?

Matthew Johnson (13:21):
Yeah. Where do I, where do I start at? Yeah. So a big thing I even wanna highlight is this is just church adults that are saying this, so this

Nick Clason (13:29):
That's

Matthew Johnson (13:29):
Good point. Yeah. This isn't even like our agnostic, the atheist, the spiritually questioning people at all. This is just your people that are in your congregation right now are saying they need this mm-hmm um, so when I, uh, some good examples of some easy things that you can start doing today, um, that do that, don't take a lot of time and if you wanna, they can grow and they, they can be a good foundation building block for you. So, uh, first of all, teaching and preaching with record, just throw a camera up, record, whatever you're teaching your preaching is honestly. Um, we do know if you're trying to reach your church. People like honestly, all you could do is just throw that as an audio and make that a podcast and put that on your website and say, Hey, here's pastor bills or, uh, you know, pastor Toms, you know, sermon from this last week or whatever, something super easy that you guys can start creating the digital presence.

Matthew Johnson (14:34):
But some other easy stuff is like, just create a Facebook group for your church. Um, just, uh, or if you have like multiple different ministries in your church, create Facebook groups for all of them, invite your volunteers into there, invite the people that, you know, wanna be involved with those groups and start cultivating those relationships in a setting that is designed for that. And, uh, you're gonna realize most people, especially, uh, higher millennial up are gonna be very open to going into those Facebook groups. Now, when you're trying to hit gen Z and stuff, you're gonna have to get a little more creative with what your digital presence looks like. Um, cuz we know, first of all, they're slowly going off of Instagram. We know they're not really involved on Facebook anymore. And really the world that's they're they're in is like TikTok and Snapchat mm-hmm um, and those avenues are just vastly different, but I mean download TikTok and start making some fun videos. If you fill up to it, uh, there's some easy wins that you could start doing right now. And then if you really wanna start like strategizing, okay, what can we do? Um, as a church here is like digitally, uh, do you have a church bulletin that you give out every week that you're still printing, make that digital, just put that online. You can still have it physical, but give a digital option for it. Um, yeah,

Nick Clason (15:58):
At least let the people be able to find it on Tuesday night. Exactly. If they have a question about the, the Wednesday event coming up tomorrow,
Matthew Johnson (16:05):
Exactly like have, have all that in mind for any resources you're making and I guarantee you're making this stuff on your computer, so just upload it digitally instead of printing it and make a easy avenue for people to access that stuff. So, um, those are some quick easy wins. And then if we wanna get more complex, you know, there's thousands and thousands of things we can

Nick Clason (16:29):
Start to do. Yeah. Well, I mean I'm thinking, right. So if in this list here that I read already teaching preaching 1 0 1 small groups, uh, 1 0 1 prayer, small groups, worship visitation, confession children's youth adult ministry, the number one option out of that was teaching. Yeah. So we can deliver, um, our teaching yes. On a Sunday morning in a large group gathering of some sort, but both through, like you're saying ripping down audio, maybe throwing up a camera and creating it, uh, a video to put on YouTube. We can take that content though and repurpose it. And so, especially as we're talking gen Z, um, and millennials, uh, you know, I remember you telling me the other day, like everything on Instagram and Facebook is trending towards Instagram, uh, and Facebook reals. Yeah. Because they're trying to keep up with TikTok. Yep. And so this short form video is kind of king right now, at least at the time of this recording.

Nick Clason (17:27):
And yeah, we in the church are in the business of content creation. We create content every single week. So what if we just took and parsed out elements of our sermon from Sunday morning and just shot that in some sort of short form video content, like either leading up to the sermon or, uh, coming after the sermon, operating as some sort of like recap or something and just shooting it in with a little bit of a different mindset, same content, take all your study, everything you did, all the passages that you studied and did exegesis on. And then just bring that into like a one minute short form video and start flooding some of those places. I think that's a way that you can, you can take your digital or I'm sorry, your physical expression and bring it out into a digital world and kind of lean into that. That hybridness would you, what do you think about that?

Matthew Johnson (18:22):
Oh, I can't agree more and even speed of short term content, Instagram believes in it so much that they literally, this week as we're recording this updated Instagram, that every video is now real. So they have said,

Nick Clason (18:36):
I saw that yesterday. Yeah. I, I saw, I was like what? That's a real, yeah.

Matthew Johnson (18:39):
Yeah. So they're, they're saying this is where we're headed and it's to compete with TikTok. Um, so yeah, take your teaching and your preaching and just splice that up into some one minute service, uh, one minute clips and stuff. And let me talk, it's super easy to be able to do that. Um, I mean you can do that an I movie that's already on your iPhone or you can download a free video software, like black magic that is very easy to do on, I know it's a crazy name, black magic, but don't get scared by it. It's just a company and, uh, you can, uh, you know, start cutting up video today and honestly start, uh, growing your digital presence there, um, very easily.

Nick Clason (19:23):
So you, yeah, so you can either record your sermon and take clips off of that. Um, but I, I personally think if you don't, you know, if you don't have the technology for that, you don't have a camera set in the back of the room yet, and you're just starting in this, like all start recording audio, like the best camera that you have access to is the one in your pocket. Yep. You know, the, the, the, the phone now they say has more computing power than the computer that landed us on the moon. Oh yeah. Uh, back with NASA and, and Armstrong and everything like that. So just get your phone out and record short five short form videos as like, just snippets of your sermon, you know? Yep. And the difference, you know, Matt, like I was telling, I was talking about this last week with some of our team, like the difference between a sermon and a sermon.

Nick Clason (20:08):
You keep, you kind of build to like a climax and then you like have like a grand reveal at the end. Um, uh, social media is different. Like you gotta hit, you gotta hit your, your topics straight away. Um, and not, not hold it back. And so for preachers, sometimes it's a little bit of a different, uh, philosophy, right. But if you get on TikTok and you start exploring, you'll learn kind of that archetype pretty fast, you know? Yeah. That's anyone who's good and performing well on there. They're probably using that, that strategy. Yep. So have a compelling hook, um, and have some compelling text there. That's gonna stop the scroll because what, like, what's the average watch time on TikTok,

Matthew Johnson (20:50):
Like right now.

Nick Clason (20:52):
Yeah. I don't know. Like it's, it feels like if it's not good, you're just gonna swipe right. Past it to the next

Matthew Johnson (20:56):
Thing about, yeah. I mean, usually the average watch time is about seven seconds, which is why TikTok seven, second videos typically get pushed higher in their algorithm.

Nick Clason (21:05):
Yeah. And even as a church, you can even take some sermon content and put that in a seven second video. Right. Like you can, you can do one of those videos that has like way too much text to read in seven seconds. And so it's gonna force people to rewatch it, which is also gonna tell the algorithm like, Hey, this is a good video show this to more people.

Matthew Johnson (21:25):
Yes. Yep. And something else that's super important about that short form content right now is the fact of how digestible it is. Yeah. So when you're reaching millennial and gen Z and we're, let's think of like youth leaders, you're mostly gonna be reaching you to gen Z right now. Um, you're going, they're gonna want that short, digestible content that they can share with other people, or they don't have to think wrong about at all. So that content doesn't have to be the super polished piece. Mm-hmm I, I want to like, make sure that we're pretty clear about that. Like if you look at YouTube, um, and what people are watching, like most of these guys are just, you know, taking their iPhone and they're recording themselves and then they post it and it's get millions of views now. So, uh, that as long as the content is solid and it's short and digestible, you're gonna be totally fine.

Nick Clason (22:23):
Yeah. And I, I think that's the piece that, that also, so, you know, number one, we are content creators by nature in the church. And then number two, uh, the level of Polish, uh, has really diminished. In fact, I think some, some things that are so polished are sometimes a little bit of a turnoff mm-hmm to gen Z and millennials. And so both of those things bode well for you and I, because I don't need a several thousand dollars camera aside from the one that's already, probably on my phone. Right. Yeah. And I don't, I don't need to re like, gosh, man, I can't imagine if I was like a washer and dryer company trying to do social media. Like, what would I do? But I'm a church. Like I have, I have hundreds and thousands of pieces of content on my hard drive right now of old sermons. I've preached, like I can dust those off and I can turn those into short form video content and use it as a way to, you know, to reach people. So, yeah. Um, and it's not even, it's not even bad, like, it's, there's a lot of like serious or like thought provoking things on TikTok. It's not just dancing and, and trend videos. Like those things are on there for sure. But you know, like you can, you can, uh, find an audience there on, on TikTok, super easy by doing some type of stuff.

Matthew Johnson (23:42):
So, absolutely. Yeah.

Nick Clason (23:44):
So, um, if, if Matt, if, um, you were someone's, um, marketing consultant and they were saying, Hey, we have nothing. You know, we don't even record our sermons. We don't have a camera in the back of the room. Um, what are the, what was be three to five things that within the next like month, you could see a church maybe start to start to take steps towards, to enter more into this hybrid world to reach millennials and gen Z.

Matthew Johnson (24:10):
Oh yeah. So let's see, you have no digital presence at all. You're a church of, you know, 300, let's say a hundred. Yeah. Small plant. Um, just getting going. Uh, I was actually just talking to a church that has 50 in Denver. Um, and, uh, some of the stuff I would tell you is, okay, so create a Facebook page, start there, get a Facebook page going and a Facebook group going for your church. And just,

Nick Clason (24:38):
And by the page, you mean the, like the business, the thing so that you could be able to run ads off that if you wanted to

Matthew Johnson (24:45):
Yeah. Yeah. Creative Facebook business page, um, for your church, that is just a place that people can come like and make comments and you can start posting content on. So Sunday morning, pull out your phone, take a photo of the outside of your building and just say, come join us and give me the service times or whatever, like start, just start, um, pushing stuff on to digital platforms. And I also say create a Facebook group. Um, whatever that group looks like for you, I would really strategize and think about what you're trying to do with it. Um, don't just create a Facebook group just cuz oh, you know, these guys are telling me to create a Facebook group, like think about what that group should be, but really that group should be a place that your community can come together and start talking to each other. And there's not a lot of work you have to do for that. You create the Facebook group, you come in and put a post and let people facilitate those conversations. And if it gets, uh, little rowdy or crazy, you can start, you know, facilitating it. But I highly doubt that's gonna happen as you're getting going. Um,

Nick Clason (25:46):
Well, and you can even do like, and like you're saying like strategize, right? So you can be like, okay, every Monday we're gonna post like the, the song set from Sunday or something like that. Exactly. And then every, every Wednesday we're gonna do a Facebook live at noon and the pastor's gonna jump on and do a devotional. Then every Friday we're gonna do like a funny Friday and we're gonna post like a meme or something like that. Exactly. It can be that skeleton of a, a strategy because in a group you're hoping that everyone else kind of drives the conversation. And so you don't even really unlike Instagram or unlike TikTok, where you have to continually kind of feed the content yep. A group you can let the other people be like, be creating that

Matthew Johnson (26:24):
Absolutely like post post questions. Like what can we be praying for you for this week? Uh, what's going on in the community this week? Is there any volunteer opportunities like really get that conversation, just going, just spark the conversation and sit back and let everyone go. Um,

Nick Clason (26:39):
Okay. So get on Facebook,

Matthew Johnson (26:40):
Get on Facebook. Yep. And then, uh, another great thing is to start, like we said, making short term video, short term video content, and I'm, if you don't have a smartphone, which there's probably not a lot of us out here, that'd be listening to this podcast right now that don't have a smartphone. Um, so pull out your smartphone, take your sermon notes that just look at your sermon notes and find the minute chunks in there that you like and record that real quick vertical. Just shoot it vertical, throw it on your Facebook. Um, you can from Facebook post it strike to Instagram. Mm-hmm and there's not a lot of work there for you and that's gonna start getting your digital presence up too. And I, what I say is like, find those minute chunks, or even if you are like, you, you could speak into this more too, Nick, cuz you're obviously a pastor, but like, you know, you write your sermon and you go, okay, I know I'm gonna summarize this in a minute. I have my synopsis of what this is like record that though that on camera.

Nick Clason (27:45):
Um, yeah, honestly, I'm like it's, it's, , it's a little bit of a bummer how I can like preach a message for 30 minutes and then I can take my outline and basically summarize it in five minutes and do a five part series on TikTok. And I'm like, oh, what was I doing up there for 30 minutes?

Matthew Johnson (28:03):
You just have more stories of illustrations and

Nick Clason (28:06):
You. Exactly. And then the other thing you'd say is try and start recording your, your audio so that you can have a audio podcast. Would that be one of your things or is that not even as high on the list for

Matthew Johnson (28:18):
You? Um,

Matthew Johnson (28:21):
So the thing is, is if you have a audio set up at all at your church, so usually you, you know, it could be the most basic soundboard in the world, which you probably have right now you can throw an SD card and their press record while you're on stage. So I would say, yeah, go ahead and make your audio content a podcast right now, as long as you have that soundboard. Um, but I'm, if you have a mic set, as long as you're not, you know, using a mic, like a karaoke mic, you should be able to do that, but don't go buy new equipment yet until you're ready for that next step. Cuz here's what happened during the pandemic and all these guys I talked to as I was consulting with churches and figuring out how to help them go digital or okay, I'm gonna go buy these three Sony cameras.

Matthew Johnson (29:07):
We're gonna have this three camera set up. Uh, we're gonna have some students in the back, you know, try to figure out what we're doing. Hey, uh, Matt, what is all the equipment I need? And my answer always was like, first of all, okay, if you had the budget for equipment, let's talk, but don't go get the top tier of anything. You don't know where this is headed for you guys. So yeah. Tweak your time. Um, and really have a figure out that strategy, not just the, oh, everyone's doing this, so I need to do this before you go do it. So, um, yeah, get that podcast going, uh, the audio for that podcast or whatever that looks like for your congregation or your group going, that's gonna help you digitally. Um, and then, you know, another easy thing to do is, like I said, you know, post that short term content on like, uh, Instagram and Facebook. Like if you are already starting to post social and stuff, like start posting doesn't necessarily like not graphics per se, but like just take a photo outside and go, how can I be praying through this week?

Nick Clason (30:14):
Yeah.

Matthew Johnson (30:15):
Or, uh, take a photo of worship this week and go, Hey, what worship songs would you wanna see this? You know, this semester or whatever, like you can start asking those questions that are related to those options that you were talking about earlier. So, um, you can really start figuring out what it is that people are looking for with your group.

Nick Clason (30:35):
Yeah, well like we recently doubled down in our student ministry on, on TikTok and on reels. Um, and we actually pulled back on some of the more formal, uh, or traditional styles of posting like on Instagram or whatever. Yeah. And we just used, uh, we're just using our short form video content sort of supplement in those areas. So for example, like I was trying to post a story a day and I was trying to post something on the Instagram feed a day and I scaled those back cuz I saw those starting to underperform a little bit mm-hmm um, but I saw our reels and our TikTok content starting to skyrocket. And so I was like, all right, instead of five things a day or five things a week on the feed, let's just move it down to three, make it really quality content, like get a nice photo.

Nick Clason (31:23):
Um, and then the rest, um, of everything and just throw, throw that short form video content. So again, like we were saying, depending on when you're listening to this at the time of the recording like that right now is everything. Yeah. And the beautiful thing is that doesn't require a lot of, you know, like software knowhow, like you can edit right in the app, like TikTok has a decent editor. So does reels, like you don't have to have Adobe premiere pro or any video skills. And like you said, you have, you have the ability to just shoot that kind of raw on the cell phone. That's sitting already in your pocket. So yeah. And what was that back to podcasting? What's that HubSpot stat? You said about uh, uh, the average adult and podcast.

Matthew Johnson (32:10):
Yeah. Listenership. Yeah. I think it's 84% of people listen to eight hours of podcast a week. And I know I'm one of those guys, like, you know, I've, I've always listened to podcast. You don't even realize how much is I listen to when I run, I listen to, when I drive, I listen to it. When I'm cooking, I listen to it when I'm doing housework, like I'm always listening to, you know, my podcast. So, um, you wanna be where people are. So as you start seeing where your people are, know that to go for them and you're gonna hear people go, well, I don't listen to podcasts. Remember we are, we're here talking about millennial and gen Z. They listen to podcasts. yeah, I promise so

Nick Clason (32:51):
Well, I think that's a great way to put the, I think great way to end it. You said go where people are, cuz that's what this is about. And if we look, if we pull this all the way back from, from the great commission of Jesus, which is to go out and make disciples of all nations like it, when, when we dovetail that off of the acts one eight, uh, commission, where he says, you'll be my witnesses in Jerusalem, Judea Samaria, and then ultimately to the ends of the earth, it's this ripple effect. But it starts where you are. So find where the people are. Yeah. There's, there's a quote that said theology is all the more important today because there are so many messages being delivered into your home that you need to be able to determine then what is actually true? that quote came from CS Lewis in the 1950s.

Nick Clason (33:37):
Yeah. When the advent of television was coming into the, to the American and, and world's home, right? Imagine the, the importance of that same idea, that same quote now with not only television, but internet, YouTube, TikTok, cell phones, advertising, all the things like that. Like the, the time is now like the amount of untruth that's out there. And so the world needs you, the world needs your church and your people and millennials and gen Z. Like they, they do, I, what I've seen as a youth pastor, they do care about spiritual stuff. Oh yeah. They just don't think the church wants to talk about the spiritual stuff that matters to them. Yeah. So don't be afraid to Wade into that space because oh yeah. Because relationship equals influence and so you can help to start build that through, uh, some of your digital channels.

Matthew Johnson (34:30):
Mm-hmm yep. Totally agree.

Nick Clason (34:33):
All right. Well I think that'll do it for us, uh, today. Any, any final thoughts, Matt?

Matthew Johnson (34:39):
No, just go get it and just start, you know? Yeah. Go, just start. Um, your digital presence. That's all I can say. Like that's the thing that we, we can sit here and talk to strategize, but just go shoot your first video. Go create your Facebook or whatever that looks like. Just take that first step. You guys got this.

Nick Clason (34:56):
Yeah. Well, Hey forever. You update on this. Follow us on Twitter at hybrid ministry, uh, website is hybrid ministry.xyz because of course.com was taken and uh, and uh, yeah. Be sure to subscribe, share it with friends. And uh, we'll talk to you guys next time.

Matthew Johnson (35:14):
Hey, thanks guys.

]]> Millennials and Gen Z are increasingly harder and harder to reach. And add to that the shifting trends of church attendance. The honest truth is a lot of us as pastors aren’t exactly sure what to do. And pair with that all the difficulties that have come post-covid. How can we enter into this digital and physical world and reach Millennials and Gen Z with a more Hybrid approach to our ministry?

Follow along on twitter - twitter.com/hybridministry

Or find full transcripts and show notes at http://www.hybridministry.xyz

TIMECODES
00:00-0:58 – Intro
0:58-3:35 - Does Digital Ministry matter post-covid?
3:36-7:09 - What could a Hybrid Model even look like?
7:09-9:09 - The faltering faith of younger generations
9:09-13:43 - Inspecting Digital openness amongst Church attenders
13:43-16:29 - How to get started in the Digital Space
16:29-18:24 - How to expand teaching and preaching into the digital space
18:24-20:00 - The future of short-form video content
20:00-21:24 - The difference between a sermon and teaching online
21:24-22:23 - Short-form content is very digestible
22:23-23:44 - The advantage we have as church leaders in the digital space
23:44-32:50 - How to get started
32:51-35:28 - Fulfilling the Great Commission through Digital means

TRANSCRIPT
Nick Clason (00:00):
Years ago, right? Uh, so 22. Yeah. Wow

Matthew Johnson (00:05):
Man.

Nick Clason (00:05):
And I didn't do the beard, right?

Matthew Johnson (00:07):
Yeah. You were doing the chin strap back then.

Nick Clason (00:09):
Yeah, I had that for oh gosh. And it was like, not very much.

Matthew Johnson (00:13):
no, , it's like just subtle it up.

Nick Clason (00:19):
Yeah. And now I've got this gigantic thing.

Matthew Johnson (00:23):
I love it.

Nick Clason (00:25):
Well, Hey everyone. Welcome to hybrid ministry podcast. On today's episode, we are gonna talk about how your church can reach gen Z and millennials here in 2022. Um, I'm your host, Nick Clason, along here with my friend, Matt Johnson, Matt, how you doing?

Matthew Johnson (00:43):
Doing right? It's uh, a little early. I see the sun rising right now of the sky, but it's actually very peaceful and I'm loving it.

Nick Clason (00:51):
Yeah. You have coffee going yet or did you just, yeah. Okay. Smart. Smart.

Matthew Johnson (00:55):
Got some cold brew right here.

Nick Clason (00:57):
Nice. Okay. So, uh, I wanna talk about this idea of hybrid, you know, and, uh, like, like we said, in the pilot, there's a lot of, there's a lot of thought. I think amongst church leaders about, um, digital being kind of pitted against physical, um, and Barna actually came out with the study recently. I'm sure you've seen this because you're the one who told me to look at it. uh, that said, um, a solely digital church expression is wanted by only about 9% of Christians. So, um, when you read that, do you feel like that's a, do you feel like that is a push towards the, the physical expression? Like what would be your response to that?

Matthew Johnson (01:40):
Yeah, when I read that, it there's, I think there's a lot there in this study that Barnett did, but specifically this stat, what stood out the most about it is that when COVID happened, the answer was immediately, well, everything has to go a hundred percent digital or we're staying a hundred percent physical. There was no conversation about an in between at all. And you rooted uprooted people from their, you know, their daily lives, their weekly habits of every Sunday morning, I wake up and I, you know, go to my local church down the street or whatever to, okay. I gotta sit in my living room and watch church. And there's a huge disconnect that you started feeling with that. So, um, I think that's why digital church is drastically dropped and you can kind of see those numbers at, in the church in general. Um, and I mean, the stats says it all only 9% of, you know, Christians want only digital, which is not very high when you look at, you know, Christian numbers. So, um, but what it does say is there's still people that want that. So that's something we have to also keep in mind as we go forward.

Nick Clason (02:54):
Yeah. And if you, if you read on it actually says, um, so only 9% say they, they only that, and I think that that word only is what's key there. Right. Because it says one third express that some sort of hybrid option would suit them. Well. Yeah. So that's, that's 33%. Right. And then as you, as you inspect deeper into the generational gaps, millennials and gen Z are just as likely to choose a hybrid option as they are to choose a physical option. So 40 versus 42%. So like that, and that's the wave of the future, right? Yep. So, so what in your mind, like, what does, what, what does a hybrid option even look like? Or do we know, or do we know yet?

Matthew Johnson (03:40):
I don't think we have so a solid answer, but I think we have a lot of, um, balls rolling at different churches around the nation and you can kind of start seeing what a hybrid option looks like. So, uh, a good example, some of good examples that you could think of that. I mean, everyone talks about life. Church, life church is a great digital presence. Mm-hmm, , you know, they're live online. I mean, pretty much every time I go to their website, this says we're live right now. So , um, which is honestly why, uh, life church has probably been able to hit the millennial demographic better than most big mega churches have been able to.

Matthew Johnson (04:23):
Interesting because they have had that option where, Hey, I can go to church. Um, life church has locations everywhere now, but also I can just watch online. And that's the key to this. What we're talking about is like reaching these younger people. So even millennials who we are starting to see have kind of been a forgotten generation when it comes to the Christian world, the gen Z, who, um, we're starting to realize are going to be forgotten. And we have no idea how to talk to gen Z. Uh, how do we get these younger people involved with church as much as they are involved with other aspects of their life. Um, and if we can have that hybrid option, which really in my mind, we need to have an offering that they can do as much as possible as they can in the digital realm of your church, but have the reliability of coming to the church for all the major stuff. So crisises, um, community questions, mm-hmm, , uh, like, uh, conversations. Cause we know, especially you being a pastor, you know, you can have a way better conversation with somebody if they come have a coffee with you, then if they just tweet at you.

Nick Clason (05:49):
Yeah, for sure. So, well, and, and a step that you always remind me of is 51% of gen Z have said that they prefer online only as a discipleship option. Yep. And that's literally half can't get more. Yeah. I mean it's a little more than half, but so it's like, that is important and that that's half of our demographic. And so if we, as a church for sake, uh, any form or any sort of digital, uh, we're missing half of a generation based on what they say that they want. Yep.

Nick Clason (06:22):
And so we gotta, we can, we don't have to do that. We don't have to pursue after that, but we just have to know what the cost of that is gonna be. And the, I, I just think that the church is in a spot where they're the church being the capital C church, like in person, church, attendance trends are different and I get it cuz digital costs money. And so with attendance, a lot of times follows money. And so you gotta make sure that you have what it takes to, to staff towards these things and to pay for these things and have the budget for these things. Right. But yep. But uh, if we don't, we're just gonna continue to reach people as they are aging, older and older as gen Z, millennials are finding their worth meaning and value over on TikTok or on YouTube.

Matthew Johnson (07:10):
Yeah, exactly. And I mean, you can already see this trend of the younger generation's faith faltering drastically, like the Gallup study that you and I just talked about where, you know, uh, we went from 78% of 18 to 35 year olds had faith in God to now we're down to 68% and that's in what, six years. So that is, um, crazy, crazy aspect that we're not thinking about. And I'm telling you, um, we can keep doing church the way we've always done it, but the church is just gonna consistently be behind. And there's the running joke in the church world. And the church world is always five years late. You know, we always, you know, oh yeah, we're finally gonna add a guitar on stage. And everyone's like, well, rock music been around for 15 years. So, um, that's just the running church joke. We're a little slower to adapt, but we can't be slow to adapt in this climate because every day that we take our time on adapting is faith is all deteriorating. Hmm. So that's something we gotta keep in mind.

Nick Clason (08:20):
Well, and I, and you know, I wanna be clear like you and I like, we're not people that are like over here trying to like crap on the church. Like, oh, we love the church and

Matthew Johnson (08:29):
Yeah. We work at a church, so

Nick Clason (08:31):
Yeah. And we think that the church is like, I believe that Jesus made the church, his primary number one, uh, right. Yeah. Way to way to reach the world, you know? So like I think there's good things out there. I think there's good para church type ministries. Good, good people like on TikTok and YouTube trying to do things, but like the church should enter into this space, you know, and not just leave it up for some 15 year old influencer, you

Matthew Johnson (08:56):
Know? Exactly. Yep. Yeah. The church is not going anywhere. I wanna be clear about that. Like the church is solid, we're strong, it's the church just needs a little bit of a, a shift in, you know, it's something that everyone is talking about currently.

Nick Clason (09:09):
So, so Barnett had an interesting thing in their study, um, and they called it digital openness. So that's church adults who were defined as having digital openness. And so these are sort of the five kind markers of that. So I just wanna run through them. And then when you, and I can kind of think about, 'em talk about 'em the first one is, um, uh, a church adult with digital openness sees the value of attending an online church service. Um, they also think that churches should use digital resources for spiritual formation or discipleship purposes, post pandemic. They think that churches should use digital resources for gathering their people together after the pandemic as well. Number four, they say either hybrid. So both a digital and a physical or a primarily digital church will best fit their lifestyle after the pandemic. And they're open to attending new kinds of online gatherings that are unfamiliar.

Nick Clason (10:07):
So like we said, this is the type of, I feel like, I mean, you're millennial, I'm a millennial. Like these are things that like both you and I would hold as values, like having, having an option to attend something. Like, I guess the starkest picture I have of it. Matt is a couple weeks ago in our youth ministry. I was in the room. Um, and we were meeting in the room with our teenagers and leaders. And um, one of my leaders had a question about an event coming up and rather than her tracking me down, uh, she pulled up our website to try and find an answer to it. Um, and she, but she couldn't. And so we're in the room and she's on her online device trying to figure it out. And she's trying to, she's trying to get answers to it until finally she's like, Hey, like she's flagged me down as I was walking by.

Nick Clason (10:57):
And she's like, I can't find the answer to it. And I was like, oh, well that's cuz we didn't put it on there. Um, so that's our fault, but I just, again, right. Like that's an example right there of where digital meets physical. Like that's the type of world that we're living in. And I don't think that in the church in general, I don't think we're thinking about it often in that type of way. I think we're like trying to replicate a physical expression onto digital mm-hmm and I don't know, I, I do think that people are tired of that post COVID, but I do think that there are other avenues or other, um, other ways that people can try, uh, that churches can try to enter into that kind of hybrid space. So mm-hmm um, and another thing I thought was interesting, I'll read through these and then wanna kind of chat and just pick your brain as, yeah.

Nick Clason (11:43):
These, these are some of the options, um, of things that people thought could be like a, a digital expression or like a hybrid version. Right? So teaching slash preaching, one-on-one prayer, small groups, all of this in like the hybrid space, worship, prayer visitation, confession children's ministry, youth ministry, adult ministry, the number one option on there was teaching and preaching. And I find that so interesting that that was the thing that, that people thought was the number one option, um, of them to be able to, uh, experience something digitally mm-hmm . So for some reason I said this to you the other day. So for some reason in the church, the, the, we determined the most effective way to communicate theological truth was through a pastor preaching in a pulpit mm-hmm , that's no longer the most effective way. And I think for a lot of us in church, like that's a little bit of a terrifying proposition, cuz that, that means we're getting rid of something that is age old and, and someone we've been doing for years. And I'm, I'm not, I'm not even sure I necessarily want to do that either. But the fact is like, we, we now have the internet, we now have podcasts. We now have all kinds of other ways that we can communicate theological truths. So what are some of those ways that you could see the church stepping in to sort of that hybrid space and some of those, you know, arenas. Cause I think if, if you're the average person listening to this, you're like, okay, all these thoughts sound great, but like what should I do?

Matthew Johnson (13:21):
Yeah. Where do I, where do I start at? Yeah. So a big thing I even wanna highlight is this is just church adults that are saying this, so this

Nick Clason (13:29):
That's

Matthew Johnson (13:29):
Good point. Yeah. This isn't even like our agnostic, the atheist, the spiritually questioning people at all. This is just your people that are in your congregation right now are saying they need this mm-hmm um, so when I, uh, some good examples of some easy things that you can start doing today, um, that do that, don't take a lot of time and if you wanna, they can grow and they, they can be a good foundation building block for you. So, uh, first of all, teaching and preaching with record, just throw a camera up, record, whatever you're teaching your preaching is honestly. Um, we do know if you're trying to reach your church. People like honestly, all you could do is just throw that as an audio and make that a podcast and put that on your website and say, Hey, here's pastor bills or, uh, you know, pastor Toms, you know, sermon from this last week or whatever, something super easy that you guys can start creating the digital presence.

Matthew Johnson (14:34):
But some other easy stuff is like, just create a Facebook group for your church. Um, just, uh, or if you have like multiple different ministries in your church, create Facebook groups for all of them, invite your volunteers into there, invite the people that, you know, wanna be involved with those groups and start cultivating those relationships in a setting that is designed for that. And, uh, you're gonna realize most people, especially, uh, higher millennial up are gonna be very open to going into those Facebook groups. Now, when you're trying to hit gen Z and stuff, you're gonna have to get a little more creative with what your digital presence looks like. Um, cuz we know, first of all, they're slowly going off of Instagram. We know they're not really involved on Facebook anymore. And really the world that's they're they're in is like TikTok and Snapchat mm-hmm um, and those avenues are just vastly different, but I mean download TikTok and start making some fun videos. If you fill up to it, uh, there's some easy wins that you could start doing right now. And then if you really wanna start like strategizing, okay, what can we do? Um, as a church here is like digitally, uh, do you have a church bulletin that you give out every week that you're still printing, make that digital, just put that online. You can still have it physical, but give a digital option for it. Um, yeah,

Nick Clason (15:58):
At least let the people be able to find it on Tuesday night. Exactly. If they have a question about the, the Wednesday event coming up tomorrow,
Matthew Johnson (16:05):
Exactly like have, have all that in mind for any resources you're making and I guarantee you're making this stuff on your computer, so just upload it digitally instead of printing it and make a easy avenue for people to access that stuff. So, um, those are some quick easy wins. And then if we wanna get more complex, you know, there's thousands and thousands of things we can

Nick Clason (16:29):
Start to do. Yeah. Well, I mean I'm thinking, right. So if in this list here that I read already teaching preaching 1 0 1 small groups, uh, 1 0 1 prayer, small groups, worship visitation, confession children's youth adult ministry, the number one option out of that was teaching. Yeah. So we can deliver, um, our teaching yes. On a Sunday morning in a large group gathering of some sort, but both through, like you're saying ripping down audio, maybe throwing up a camera and creating it, uh, a video to put on YouTube. We can take that content though and repurpose it. And so, especially as we're talking gen Z, um, and millennials, uh, you know, I remember you telling me the other day, like everything on Instagram and Facebook is trending towards Instagram, uh, and Facebook reals. Yeah. Because they're trying to keep up with TikTok. Yep. And so this short form video is kind of king right now, at least at the time of this recording.

Nick Clason (17:27):
And yeah, we in the church are in the business of content creation. We create content every single week. So what if we just took and parsed out elements of our sermon from Sunday morning and just shot that in some sort of short form video content, like either leading up to the sermon or, uh, coming after the sermon, operating as some sort of like recap or something and just shooting it in with a little bit of a different mindset, same content, take all your study, everything you did, all the passages that you studied and did exegesis on. And then just bring that into like a one minute short form video and start flooding some of those places. I think that's a way that you can, you can take your digital or I'm sorry, your physical expression and bring it out into a digital world and kind of lean into that. That hybridness would you, what do you think about that?

Matthew Johnson (18:22):
Oh, I can't agree more and even speed of short term content, Instagram believes in it so much that they literally, this week as we're recording this updated Instagram, that every video is now real. So they have said,

Nick Clason (18:36):
I saw that yesterday. Yeah. I, I saw, I was like what? That's a real, yeah.

Matthew Johnson (18:39):
Yeah. So they're, they're saying this is where we're headed and it's to compete with TikTok. Um, so yeah, take your teaching and your preaching and just splice that up into some one minute service, uh, one minute clips and stuff. And let me talk, it's super easy to be able to do that. Um, I mean you can do that an I movie that's already on your iPhone or you can download a free video software, like black magic that is very easy to do on, I know it's a crazy name, black magic, but don't get scared by it. It's just a company and, uh, you can, uh, you know, start cutting up video today and honestly start, uh, growing your digital presence there, um, very easily.

Nick Clason (19:23):
So you, yeah, so you can either record your sermon and take clips off of that. Um, but I, I personally think if you don't, you know, if you don't have the technology for that, you don't have a camera set in the back of the room yet, and you're just starting in this, like all start recording audio, like the best camera that you have access to is the one in your pocket. Yep. You know, the, the, the, the phone now they say has more computing power than the computer that landed us on the moon. Oh yeah. Uh, back with NASA and, and Armstrong and everything like that. So just get your phone out and record short five short form videos as like, just snippets of your sermon, you know? Yep. And the difference, you know, Matt, like I was telling, I was talking about this last week with some of our team, like the difference between a sermon and a sermon.

Nick Clason (20:08):
You keep, you kind of build to like a climax and then you like have like a grand reveal at the end. Um, uh, social media is different. Like you gotta hit, you gotta hit your, your topics straight away. Um, and not, not hold it back. And so for preachers, sometimes it's a little bit of a different, uh, philosophy, right. But if you get on TikTok and you start exploring, you'll learn kind of that archetype pretty fast, you know? Yeah. That's anyone who's good and performing well on there. They're probably using that, that strategy. Yep. So have a compelling hook, um, and have some compelling text there. That's gonna stop the scroll because what, like, what's the average watch time on TikTok,

Matthew Johnson (20:50):
Like right now.

Nick Clason (20:52):
Yeah. I don't know. Like it's, it feels like if it's not good, you're just gonna swipe right. Past it to the next

Matthew Johnson (20:56):
Thing about, yeah. I mean, usually the average watch time is about seven seconds, which is why TikTok seven, second videos typically get pushed higher in their algorithm.

Nick Clason (21:05):
Yeah. And even as a church, you can even take some sermon content and put that in a seven second video. Right. Like you can, you can do one of those videos that has like way too much text to read in seven seconds. And so it's gonna force people to rewatch it, which is also gonna tell the algorithm like, Hey, this is a good video show this to more people.

Matthew Johnson (21:25):
Yes. Yep. And something else that's super important about that short form content right now is the fact of how digestible it is. Yeah. So when you're reaching millennial and gen Z and we're, let's think of like youth leaders, you're mostly gonna be reaching you to gen Z right now. Um, you're going, they're gonna want that short, digestible content that they can share with other people, or they don't have to think wrong about at all. So that content doesn't have to be the super polished piece. Mm-hmm I, I want to like, make sure that we're pretty clear about that. Like if you look at YouTube, um, and what people are watching, like most of these guys are just, you know, taking their iPhone and they're recording themselves and then they post it and it's get millions of views now. So, uh, that as long as the content is solid and it's short and digestible, you're gonna be totally fine.

Nick Clason (22:23):
Yeah. And I, I think that's the piece that, that also, so, you know, number one, we are content creators by nature in the church. And then number two, uh, the level of Polish, uh, has really diminished. In fact, I think some, some things that are so polished are sometimes a little bit of a turnoff mm-hmm to gen Z and millennials. And so both of those things bode well for you and I, because I don't need a several thousand dollars camera aside from the one that's already, probably on my phone. Right. Yeah. And I don't, I don't need to re like, gosh, man, I can't imagine if I was like a washer and dryer company trying to do social media. Like, what would I do? But I'm a church. Like I have, I have hundreds and thousands of pieces of content on my hard drive right now of old sermons. I've preached, like I can dust those off and I can turn those into short form video content and use it as a way to, you know, to reach people. So, yeah. Um, and it's not even, it's not even bad, like, it's, there's a lot of like serious or like thought provoking things on TikTok. It's not just dancing and, and trend videos. Like those things are on there for sure. But you know, like you can, you can, uh, find an audience there on, on TikTok, super easy by doing some type of stuff.

Matthew Johnson (23:42):
So, absolutely. Yeah.

Nick Clason (23:44):
So, um, if, if Matt, if, um, you were someone's, um, marketing consultant and they were saying, Hey, we have nothing. You know, we don't even record our sermons. We don't have a camera in the back of the room. Um, what are the, what was be three to five things that within the next like month, you could see a church maybe start to start to take steps towards, to enter more into this hybrid world to reach millennials and gen Z.

Matthew Johnson (24:10):
Oh yeah. So let's see, you have no digital presence at all. You're a church of, you know, 300, let's say a hundred. Yeah. Small plant. Um, just getting going. Uh, I was actually just talking to a church that has 50 in Denver. Um, and, uh, some of the stuff I would tell you is, okay, so create a Facebook page, start there, get a Facebook page going and a Facebook group going for your church. And just,

Nick Clason (24:38):
And by the page, you mean the, like the business, the thing so that you could be able to run ads off that if you wanted to

Matthew Johnson (24:45):
Yeah. Yeah. Creative Facebook business page, um, for your church, that is just a place that people can come like and make comments and you can start posting content on. So Sunday morning, pull out your phone, take a photo of the outside of your building and just say, come join us and give me the service times or whatever, like start, just start, um, pushing stuff on to digital platforms. And I also say create a Facebook group. Um, whatever that group looks like for you, I would really strategize and think about what you're trying to do with it. Um, don't just create a Facebook group just cuz oh, you know, these guys are telling me to create a Facebook group, like think about what that group should be, but really that group should be a place that your community can come together and start talking to each other. And there's not a lot of work you have to do for that. You create the Facebook group, you come in and put a post and let people facilitate those conversations. And if it gets, uh, little rowdy or crazy, you can start, you know, facilitating it. But I highly doubt that's gonna happen as you're getting going. Um,

Nick Clason (25:46):
Well, and you can even do like, and like you're saying like strategize, right? So you can be like, okay, every Monday we're gonna post like the, the song set from Sunday or something like that. Exactly. And then every, every Wednesday we're gonna do a Facebook live at noon and the pastor's gonna jump on and do a devotional. Then every Friday we're gonna do like a funny Friday and we're gonna post like a meme or something like that. Exactly. It can be that skeleton of a, a strategy because in a group you're hoping that everyone else kind of drives the conversation. And so you don't even really unlike Instagram or unlike TikTok, where you have to continually kind of feed the content yep. A group you can let the other people be like, be creating that

Matthew Johnson (26:24):
Absolutely like post post questions. Like what can we be praying for you for this week? Uh, what's going on in the community this week? Is there any volunteer opportunities like really get that conversation, just going, just spark the conversation and sit back and let everyone go. Um,

Nick Clason (26:39):
Okay. So get on Facebook,

Matthew Johnson (26:40):
Get on Facebook. Yep. And then, uh, another great thing is to start, like we said, making short term video, short term video content, and I'm, if you don't have a smartphone, which there's probably not a lot of us out here, that'd be listening to this podcast right now that don't have a smartphone. Um, so pull out your smartphone, take your sermon notes that just look at your sermon notes and find the minute chunks in there that you like and record that real quick vertical. Just shoot it vertical, throw it on your Facebook. Um, you can from Facebook post it strike to Instagram. Mm-hmm and there's not a lot of work there for you and that's gonna start getting your digital presence up too. And I, what I say is like, find those minute chunks, or even if you are like, you, you could speak into this more too, Nick, cuz you're obviously a pastor, but like, you know, you write your sermon and you go, okay, I know I'm gonna summarize this in a minute. I have my synopsis of what this is like record that though that on camera.

Nick Clason (27:45):
Um, yeah, honestly, I'm like it's, it's, , it's a little bit of a bummer how I can like preach a message for 30 minutes and then I can take my outline and basically summarize it in five minutes and do a five part series on TikTok. And I'm like, oh, what was I doing up there for 30 minutes?

Matthew Johnson (28:03):
You just have more stories of illustrations and

Nick Clason (28:06):
You. Exactly. And then the other thing you'd say is try and start recording your, your audio so that you can have a audio podcast. Would that be one of your things or is that not even as high on the list for

Matthew Johnson (28:18):
You? Um,

Matthew Johnson (28:21):
So the thing is, is if you have a audio set up at all at your church, so usually you, you know, it could be the most basic soundboard in the world, which you probably have right now you can throw an SD card and their press record while you're on stage. So I would say, yeah, go ahead and make your audio content a podcast right now, as long as you have that soundboard. Um, but I'm, if you have a mic set, as long as you're not, you know, using a mic, like a karaoke mic, you should be able to do that, but don't go buy new equipment yet until you're ready for that next step. Cuz here's what happened during the pandemic and all these guys I talked to as I was consulting with churches and figuring out how to help them go digital or okay, I'm gonna go buy these three Sony cameras.

Matthew Johnson (29:07):
We're gonna have this three camera set up. Uh, we're gonna have some students in the back, you know, try to figure out what we're doing. Hey, uh, Matt, what is all the equipment I need? And my answer always was like, first of all, okay, if you had the budget for equipment, let's talk, but don't go get the top tier of anything. You don't know where this is headed for you guys. So yeah. Tweak your time. Um, and really have a figure out that strategy, not just the, oh, everyone's doing this, so I need to do this before you go do it. So, um, yeah, get that podcast going, uh, the audio for that podcast or whatever that looks like for your congregation or your group going, that's gonna help you digitally. Um, and then, you know, another easy thing to do is, like I said, you know, post that short term content on like, uh, Instagram and Facebook. Like if you are already starting to post social and stuff, like start posting doesn't necessarily like not graphics per se, but like just take a photo outside and go, how can I be praying through this week?

Nick Clason (30:14):
Yeah.

Matthew Johnson (30:15):
Or, uh, take a photo of worship this week and go, Hey, what worship songs would you wanna see this? You know, this semester or whatever, like you can start asking those questions that are related to those options that you were talking about earlier. So, um, you can really start figuring out what it is that people are looking for with your group.

Nick Clason (30:35):
Yeah, well like we recently doubled down in our student ministry on, on TikTok and on reels. Um, and we actually pulled back on some of the more formal, uh, or traditional styles of posting like on Instagram or whatever. Yeah. And we just used, uh, we're just using our short form video content sort of supplement in those areas. So for example, like I was trying to post a story a day and I was trying to post something on the Instagram feed a day and I scaled those back cuz I saw those starting to underperform a little bit mm-hmm um, but I saw our reels and our TikTok content starting to skyrocket. And so I was like, all right, instead of five things a day or five things a week on the feed, let's just move it down to three, make it really quality content, like get a nice photo.

Nick Clason (31:23):
Um, and then the rest, um, of everything and just throw, throw that short form video content. So again, like we were saying, depending on when you're listening to this at the time of the recording like that right now is everything. Yeah. And the beautiful thing is that doesn't require a lot of, you know, like software knowhow, like you can edit right in the app, like TikTok has a decent editor. So does reels, like you don't have to have Adobe premiere pro or any video skills. And like you said, you have, you have the ability to just shoot that kind of raw on the cell phone. That's sitting already in your pocket. So yeah. And what was that back to podcasting? What's that HubSpot stat? You said about uh, uh, the average adult and podcast.

Matthew Johnson (32:10):
Yeah. Listenership. Yeah. I think it's 84% of people listen to eight hours of podcast a week. And I know I'm one of those guys, like, you know, I've, I've always listened to podcast. You don't even realize how much is I listen to when I run, I listen to, when I drive, I listen to it. When I'm cooking, I listen to it when I'm doing housework, like I'm always listening to, you know, my podcast. So, um, you wanna be where people are. So as you start seeing where your people are, know that to go for them and you're gonna hear people go, well, I don't listen to podcasts. Remember we are, we're here talking about millennial and gen Z. They listen to podcasts. yeah, I promise so

Nick Clason (32:51):
Well, I think that's a great way to put the, I think great way to end it. You said go where people are, cuz that's what this is about. And if we look, if we pull this all the way back from, from the great commission of Jesus, which is to go out and make disciples of all nations like it, when, when we dovetail that off of the acts one eight, uh, commission, where he says, you'll be my witnesses in Jerusalem, Judea Samaria, and then ultimately to the ends of the earth, it's this ripple effect. But it starts where you are. So find where the people are. Yeah. There's, there's a quote that said theology is all the more important today because there are so many messages being delivered into your home that you need to be able to determine then what is actually true? that quote came from CS Lewis in the 1950s.

Nick Clason (33:37):
Yeah. When the advent of television was coming into the, to the American and, and world's home, right? Imagine the, the importance of that same idea, that same quote now with not only television, but internet, YouTube, TikTok, cell phones, advertising, all the things like that. Like the, the time is now like the amount of untruth that's out there. And so the world needs you, the world needs your church and your people and millennials and gen Z. Like they, they do, I, what I've seen as a youth pastor, they do care about spiritual stuff. Oh yeah. They just don't think the church wants to talk about the spiritual stuff that matters to them. Yeah. So don't be afraid to Wade into that space because oh yeah. Because relationship equals influence and so you can help to start build that through, uh, some of your digital channels.

Matthew Johnson (34:30):
Mm-hmm yep. Totally agree.

Nick Clason (34:33):
All right. Well I think that'll do it for us, uh, today. Any, any final thoughts, Matt?

Matthew Johnson (34:39):
No, just go get it and just start, you know? Yeah. Go, just start. Um, your digital presence. That's all I can say. Like that's the thing that we, we can sit here and talk to strategize, but just go shoot your first video. Go create your Facebook or whatever that looks like. Just take that first step. You guys got this.

Nick Clason (34:56):
Yeah. Well, Hey forever. You update on this. Follow us on Twitter at hybrid ministry, uh, website is hybrid ministry.xyz because of course.com was taken and uh, and uh, yeah. Be sure to subscribe, share it with friends. And uh, we'll talk to you guys next time.

Matthew Johnson (35:14):
Hey, thanks guys.

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