SHOWNOTES
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqhrIqTy2ZE&t=914s

https://prochurchtools.libsyn.com/email-newsletters-overwhelmed-church-staff-social-media-predictions-gone-wrong

https://prochurchtools.libsyn.com/email-open-rates-subject-lines-removing-inactive-subscribers

https://prochurchtools.com/7-proven-church-newsletter-ideas-that-really-work/

TIMECODES
00:00-01:13 Intro
01:13-03:03 My Digital Ministry Proposal for my Youth Ministry
03:03-04:01 Back Story
04:01-06:22 Why I love plain text emails
06:22-07:49 Building the Website from Scratch
07:49-12:17 Mapping out the Student Website
12:17-13:05 What to include on a parent website
13:05-13:54 What leaders need on a website
13:54-15:11 Why most church websites don't know who their intended audience is
15:11-15:42 How often to send emails
15:42-16:46 Youth or Student Ministry for SEO?
16:46-17:52 Outro

TRANSCRIPT
Nick Clason (00:01):
Ooh, what's going on everybody. Uh, welcome to another episode of the hybrid ministry podcast. I am your host, Nick Clason, excited to be joining you today this morning. Um, bright and beautiful morning. Uh, I am all, I'm doing another solo pod and I'm so sad cuz I love, love talking to Matt. Um, and we will probably share nothing bad, man. Like nothing bad. Uh, we'll probably share in a future episode, what is going on? Um, life is a little influx for both of us to be completely honest. Uh, as I said in the last episode I had just recently taken a job at a church in Texas. I'm currently sitting in the basement of my house in Illinois. Um, I am leaving for Disney in a day to go on vacation with my family. Uh, so life is absolutely chaos in mayhem. And so anyway, um, I wanted to just hop on here and uh, you know, just talk through a couple of things and uh, share some insights today.

Nick Clason (01:11):
Specifically I wanted to talk about the most recent digital ministry hybrid ministry proposal that I put together for the church that I'm working at. Um, and so, uh, gosh, maybe it was like five or so episodes ago I explained, you know, what we were doing at the church I was working at where I'm going, does not have as clearly of a defined digital strategy. It's also in the south. Um, it's the buckle of the Bible belt, Dallas. It feels like. Right. And so, um, there's a lot more of an in person kind of moment. And so how do we take what's already going on in person and create hybrid options? Why would we even wanna do that? What's the purpose of digital ministry, especially if an in person thing is going so well. And so I wanna jump in and explain kind of all of that today.

Nick Clason (02:01):
That's kind of the point, but like I said, we're a little bit in transition. My goal is to still never miss a Thursday drop. Uh, we have these set to go live every Thursday at four o'clock in the morning. And so as soon as you wake up on Thursday after a night of youth ministry, if your youth pastor or on your commute on the way on, in, on a Thursday, you should see one of these. You should get one of these in your podcast, catcher. Hey, listen. Also, we would just love it. If you would share the word. If you'd get this out there with a friend post on social media, tag us on Twitter at hybrid ministry, our website for we have full show notes, transcripts, we provide those all for you. A hundred percent for free at hybridministry.xyz also on our blog on there, we have a free downloadable checklist.

Nick Clason (02:48):
So go check that out. Um, anytime you post social media dos and don'ts, um, that's relevant as of now, you know, as long as algorithms and social networks don't change anything. But anyway, all that to be said, let's dive in. I wanted to, uh, chat a little bit. So just quick backstory, um, where I'm headed, uh, where I just most recent took good job is, um, the same place that, uh, my boss, a former boss, um, at my old job, uh, is now working as well. So he went to this church and, um, through a series of amazing supernatural, um, and other confirmation events I felt as the Lord was telling me to also go there, um, after having been offered an opportunity. And so that's kind of that, like I said, I, I think at some point me and Matt will share kind of our journeys and what's going on and, and all those types of things, but I'm gonna say that for another episode, but all that to be said, um, I'm walking into a brand new environment, but I'm walking into the exact same boss.

Nick Clason (03:52):
And so things are a little bit interesting. And so on like day two, I put together a proposal and I probably wouldn't have put together such a strong proposal. Um, however I put it together because I wanted to, uh, or I mean a cuz he trusted me and, and B cuz I had a lot of desires and opinions. And so the first thing which just started off of was he was saying, Hey man, do some research on email marketing. I was like, okay, fine. Right. Like, you know, I don't know if you know this or not. I host podcast, no big deal. Right. all about digital ministry hybrid ministry. Obviously I was joking. Um, the children's pastor at the church has an email newsletter and uh, I don't know. Um, one of the, one of the guys I'm super, um, I, I, that influences me a lot in this space is Brady sheer, um, of pro church tools, pro church tools podcast, and um, him along with a lot of research from HubSpot and stuff like that, they really, really push against marketing type emails and they push strongly towards plain text type emails.

Nick Clason (05:01):
Say they say that open rates are higher. Um, email algorithms, yes. Emails have algorithms. Uh, they, uh, email algorithms, you know, play more nicely with emails that look plain, text that look like it's just like a friend to a friend type of conversation as opposed to something that you would get from some gigantic corporation with a bunch of graphics and things like that. And so, um, you know, my, my boss, former boss also now current boss and friend, um, so I was, again able to be a little more direct. I feel like than if I was just starting completely brand new was like, Hey, I want this, I want our emails to look like the kids' ministry emails. He forwarded it to me and I said, Hey, that looks great. And it did. I mean, it looks amazing. Um, I said, however, you know, I sent 'em look like probably five or six links.

Nick Clason (05:53):
Um, and I can link those in the show notes. Uh, but I, I said five or six links about like, Hey, here's why we don't want to do this. Right. And, uh, he wasn't totally convinced. And so I said, Hey, here's the thing. Um, let's take a look at, um, maybe creating this in a website style. And so that's kinda, what I wanna talk about today is this, this proposal I put together for a hub based website. And so the communications guy at the church I'm working at now was not in the office last week. So, um, I sent this to my boss. He's going to sit down with the communications guy and pitch it when I'm gone at Disney next week. Uh, all that being said, I have no idea where this is gonna head, but this is kind of like us starting, um, hybrid digital ministry from the ground up.

Nick Clason (06:46):
Currently we have a website and we have an Instagram and that is it. There's really nothing else. I mean, we have an email list as well. It's pulled out of our church management software. And so what I wanted to do is I wanna do a hub style website where anyone at any time could go and check out. And so, uh, the thing in student ministry, um, like I said, I'm a youth pastor. So if you're not a youth pastor, um, this still applies. But, but the thing in student ministry, I think there's, what is your intended audience on your website? Is it students? Is it parents? Is it leaders? And the honest truth is that it's probably all three. And so I don't know the best way to do this, but what I think is that you go to a central kinda landing spot, a central sort of website.

Nick Clason (07:34):
And then you say from there students, parents leaders with like a button for each, or like a page for each or a link for each or whatever. Right. Um, and each of those have a different reason, a different purpose, right? So, um, students, I, I think you wanna link upcoming events. You may wanna have sign up calendars. Um, but also, and this is the thing I'm really, really trying to double down on. And this is the whole reason for me personally, why I'm so passionate about hybrid ministry is I want digital discipleship tools. I don't know where you land on it. As far as your definition of discipleship. I believe that discipleship has a life on life component. If you look at Jesus and the way that he modeled life with his disciples, he literally lived with them. They came and see, they checked it out and then they come and they followed him and then he started giving them more and more assignments.

Nick Clason (08:32):
And then until eventually ultimately he left all of the next steps of the church in their hands, all of that done life on life. And I think that there should be a life on life component. I think there should be a physical non-digital in person meeting. Right. And that's why this whole thing, right? We're not talking about it being physical versus digital. We're talking about hybrid. How do both of these two things marry? Why? Because, um, while I would love to be a youth pastor that when people look at me, they say, I see Jesus in you. And I model my life in my ministry after Jesus. I also, um, cannot spend the same amount of time with the people I am attempting to disciple the same way that Jesus did. I mean, I guess I could. Right. But that would require me to, um, sell all my possessions, be homeless and wander around from place to place.

Nick Clason (09:29):
And while that may sound noble and amazing to some of you out there and you're like, yeah, did you should totally do that. I have a wife and kids and I just, you know, our American system doesn't really lend itself that well to it. And I'm not trying to be facetious here, honestly, I'm just saying it, there are constraints, um, that I have placed on my own life. Right. But also constraints within the American working system and whatnot. And so I love the idea of digital resources because it allows there to be other pieces, elements of content that can take place in the gaps, in the margins, in between our, in person meetings. Right. So, uh, right now, like I said, we have an Instagram, so that's posting on the fee. That's also posting on reels, as we've said, a billion times on this podcast, short form, video content as king.

Nick Clason (10:21):
And so we want to continue to double down on that. I want to continue to double down on that as a part of my proposal. And as a part of us building this thing from the ground up, I also wanna explore the idea of a daily video slash audio podcast. Did I say daily? I didn't mean daily, but a video audio, um, podcast, perhaps some daily devotionals, those could live on YouTube. Um, they could also just go short form on TikTok. And I also love the idea of blog style articles or some written devotional type content. That's either custom or that is curated. And so those are some elements. And in all of that as a youth pastor, I have to think what about the sixth grader? What about the seventh grader? What about the eighth grader? Um, that their parents won't allow them to have a phone.

Nick Clason (11:16):
And so I want all this stuff to be able to live on a website so that they can go there and there's pulled content from our YouTube channel. They can click, they can go to YouTube. They don't need a phone. They don't need YouTube account to watch it. Same with TikTok. I actually like the TikTok sharing link algorithm pretty well, cuz you don't unlike Instagram. Um, it's much easier to interface with it without an account. Of course it's easier with it. It always is. They try to make it that way. Right. Um, and same with the video or audio podcast probably hosted on YouTube or whatever and whatnot, all of those to be digital type discipleship tools that entire framework's not built out. Right. But I want to create a central student hub where people can go to students specifically can go to and be both a informed about what's going on times, whatever, what, not calendar events, but also, um, grab some things that can help them grow in their faith and help them grow closer to Jesus.

Nick Clason (12:18):
Then we want a parent hub and um, same thing, upcoming calendar events, signups links out to social media, perhaps a parent specific only Facebook group. I think that Facebook is used best in that format in ministry, um, for group type settings. And um, you know, so like parents are probably some of the, the most active users on it. I don't think we should neglect Facebook altogether, but I don't think it's super prevalent and relevant for students. And then same thing for them. I wanna also offer parent discipleship type tools, maybe a parent podcast, maybe some parent based articles and then some curated materials links out to other things, materials, whatever, whatnot. Um, and then finally leaders, um, a leader hub as well. So calendar of events, um, lessons, small group materials, videos of the upcoming lessons, if they're prerecorded or anything like that. Um, leader resources links to Facebook groups or group MES, um, applications to serve.

Nick Clason (13:27):
Uh, and then also some leader growth slash discipleship type tools, podcast, article, curative materials, right? And so what we wanna try and create is a place where like everyone at any time knows exactly where to go to such and such website. And they always go there, students go there, parents go there leaders go there. And then from there, it's clear if you're a student, you dive down this path. If you're a parent, you dive down this path and if you're a leader, you dive down this path. In my experience as a youth pastor, I've looked around, there are not a ton of amazing youth ministry websites out there. And I think part of the problem is because there are multiple intended audiences. Is it for students or is it for parents or is it for leaders? And I think in a lot of cases, and this is a super basic and easy marketing premise, right?

Nick Clason (14:18):
But the, the bottom line, the reality of it is, is that you gotta know who your audience is. And a lot of times, I don't know that that's all the way defined. So who is your audience? Figure that out and Noah, and in this case, we're realizing that there are three audiences that we really care about and that we want to aim and that we want to hit and that we want to create custom content for all three of them either create it or curate it, which means find other things out there on the internet to help kinda resource that. And then from there, if everything is built onto a website and if the website is ruthlessly updated, I think a lot of times too, youth pastors or churches think of their website as their last stop, as opposed to their first. So if the website remains ruthlessly updated, then you can just do a weekly, plain text, email scheduled from a person, pastor Craig, pastor, John, Andrew, whatever the names are.

Nick Clason (15:21):
Right. Um, historically I've heard that the best times to send an email is Tuesday at 9:00 AM. I dunno if that's still true, it's something I've been doing for 10 years now. Um, and then I think that, uh, you can pay attention to subscribers and open rates and click throughs through a thing like MailChimp or, um, maybe your church management software offers that ability. The last thing, um, that you know, is just interesting is, um, one of the things we're, we're debating right now and I'll let you know, kind of where we land is, do we keep the name students or do we switch over to using youth for search engine optimization purposes? What, what Matt has found and, you know, Matt used to be a marketer for dare to share. And so he found that overseas students was used a lot more frequently in America.

Nick Clason (16:12):
Youth ministry is the preferred term, especially on, um, Google and stuff. And actually he was showing that if you look up the word students, um, oftentimes it's in relation to college, collegiate ministry, stuff like that. And so, uh, that was just a super interesting thing. And so again, as we're building from the ground up, we're having these conversations, we, my boss and I, we both like the word youth, um, you know, can we get, can we get the church on board for it? Um, what's the branding implications, all those types of things, but that's another conversation that we're having with our, uh, communications people. So there you have it, there is my hub style website proposal for church. I'll let you know how it goes, bringing you a long lifetime for it again. Thanks for being here. Hey, hybridministry.xyz is your one stop shop for everything that we have to offer. Um, again, like I said, in our last episode, we're looking to continue to create more and more resources for you. Look for those coming here in the next month or so as Matt and I both kind of get our feet under us about what's next and where we're headed. Um, look forward to having him back on the pod at some point, but until then, stuck with me, glad to be with you. Um, and we will talk again later. Thanks guys. Check you out on the flippty flip

Follow along on twitter - twitter.com/hybridministry

Or find full transcripts and show notes at http://www.hybridministry.xyz

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TIMECODES
00:00-01:15 Announcement and FREE giveaway
01:15-5:26 The New Normal of Church
5:26-13:03 Best Church Website Practices
13:03-15:55 Should our Church get an app?
15:55-20:00 How can our church use YouVersion?
20:00-24:57 Facebook best practices
24:57-29:38 Instagram best practices
29:38-32:00 TikTok best practices
32:00-34:42 How about Discord?
34:42-36:51 Texting Best Practices
36:52-38:13 Outro and Conclusion

TRANSCRIPT
Nick Clason (00:00):
Think that they were gonna, uh, keep it going. I thought that I thought that was gonna be it.

Matthew Johnson (00:07):
Yeah. That one more season left.

Nick Clason (00:09):
Yeah. So it like when they did, which it's like the first season that they've never resolved, you know? Yep.

Matthew Johnson (00:15):
They said like, it was the first time they've never done that, so

Nick Clason (00:18):
Yeah. Well, Hey everybody. Welcome back to, uh, hybrid ministry, the podcast. I am your host, Nick Clason alongside my good friend. Matt Johnson. How you doing this morning, Matt?

Matthew Johnson (00:34):
Doing good, man. I can't complain got a cup of coffee and uh, it's a beautiful Friday morning.

Nick Clason (00:39):
Yeah, we're ready to roll. You know, what's so fun. Uh we were in a meeting yesterday about this exact topic, like in our, in our church talking about the new normal of church, you know, a little bit. Um, yeah, which I think is, is interesting cuz uh, I can't remember how you said it, man. It was so good. You were saying like the way that we've done church for so long, it, it has to shift and it has to shift into a hybrid type of world. What, like what do you mean by that? What did you, what were, what were kind of your like thoughts going into that statement?

Matthew Johnson (01:16):
Yeah, so we, the church as a whole has had two main philosophies over the last, let's just say 60 years, it's gone back obviously much further than that, but uh, here it's been straight to seat. What I mean by that it's like find someone on the street, they can come to church and they can take a seat in for Sunday service. And then probably since the internet age, I'd say probably in the last 15 years, maybe 20, I, that might be pushing it, let's say 15 to 10. Cause the church is, um, always a little bit on the back. End of everything is sight to see. And, um, what that means is like, Hey, you come to our website and then you can come to our church, but now we're in this new world, which what the heck is next for us. like, uh, what is, what is post COVID look like? What does this hybrid approach? And we know the church has to evolve in some fashion just based off of where technology is going. No matter how much we all say that we hate technology, this is the world we live in now. So that's really what I've been, just trying to figure out like where should we evolve?

Nick Clason (02:29):
Yeah. And I like, one of the best examples I ever heard of, of hybrid was like a department store. Um, I was, and, and I, it came to fruition for me a couple weeks ago and I was walking through, Lowe's like physically walking through the Lowe's department store. I was in person, all the things, but I couldn't find what I was looking for. And so as a typical millennial, instead of stopping and asking an associate where to find the thing, I downloaded the Lowe's app on my phone, searched it. And it told me exactly where to go. Um, yep. And so I used a digital tool in a physical environment and I think that's sort of what we're talking about is this, this hybrid approach. And I don't think either one of us is necessarily advocating for getting rid of everything. That's why I really like this word, this word hybrid, because it's, it's not either or it's both and

Matthew Johnson (03:27):
Exactly. Yep. And

Nick Clason (03:29):
So that's, that's what I wanna talk about today is what, what specifically can we do? Like let's get nitty gritty, get down to some of the, like specifics of some of these platforms and some of these best practices. And I think, you know, just shooting straight, like we have ideas and we have data to back up some of this stuff, but we don't have all the answers. And, and I don't think any church is really hitting it, you know, bating a thousand and hitting all these things a hundred percent outta the park either, you know? So like, yeah, same is true for us. So these are just things in our brains that are rattling around and things we wanna, you know, kind of try where we wanna start. So.

Matthew Johnson (04:09):
Yep. Absolutely.

Nick Clason (04:10):
All right. So let's just talk through like, um, LA on episode one, we talked a little bit about this. Um, but like if, if you have nothing, you know, um, is the best place to start, Matt, would you say like a website, like getting your own, your own domain, your own place that, that you own, that you're not on like borrowed social media space or anything like that, your own website, is that the best place to start? And then if so, um, what do you like, what are some best practices as it pertains to web these days?

Matthew Johnson (04:44):
Yeah, so I would say the best website could be one of the best places to start. Uh, I'm not gonna say it's like a blanket statement. Like everyone should start there, but I will say if you don't have a website and you have the means and, um, energy to make the website, you definitely need to get on that. And, uh, websites are so easy to make right now if you like square space and WICS, you need even WordPress plugins, like Elementor, um, make building a website very easy where you don't need to hire developers and have a huge upfront cost anymore. Um, your website, like we're saying earlier in the episode is, was originally like this, you visit our site and then you come to the church mm-hmm so site to see, um, it was more of probably a front porch approach, um, to the church, uh, as in, okay, I'm, I've entered into your fray and now I'm gonna come all the way in your house.

Matthew Johnson (05:51):
Yeah. The website now can function as multiple. And the first thing it's gonna function through for is I I'll call it your window. Um, and that's the sense that I'm just viewing in to what your church holds. And then I will decide just from the viewing in, if I even want to attend online, if I wanna check out your social, if I want to check out your campus. Um, so those are all the questions that you're your first time person is gonna be faced with. Um, especially as you're trying to reach lost people, the more approachable your website is the better because you want people to not feel intimidated to come check you out. So when I think of a website, the first thing I always tell everybody is 90% of what you wanna put on your website. You don't need to put on your website.

Matthew Johnson (06:46):
um, the reason I say that is cuz everyone thinks they just need to put everything in the kitchen sink on their website. Um, and Donald Miller who, uh, is just kind of become a marketing guru, um, has really coined this term of like story branding, your website, story, story, branding in general, your, um, your church, whatever your company is. But I always love his idea of the website, which is a lot of the junk that you put on your website belongs to the junk or on your website. Hmm. So what that means is like, it all be, you can put it on your website, but it should not be easily accessible and it should be at the bottom of the website where if you wanna find it, you can find it, but that's not what you're trying, you're there for. So when you go to someone's website, the first thing I should see is what you want me to do.

Matthew Johnson (07:38):
Um, and that's going to vary church church. So, uh, at our church it's uh, Hey, attend online right now or, um, here's the church services mm-hmm um, is that the best course of action? I don't know. Um, there's a lot of philosophies, uh, and really you should only have one decision. So if you're whole idea says hyper approach, I would just say a 10 0 9 should be your first call to action. If you had that capability mm-hmm so you gotta simplify your website, get rid of the junk on your website and then make your website purposeful. So what are you trying to tell people as they learn about you? Like I said, your window, it's like a window shopping. So it is really easy, Nick, for you or I to go and Google type in Christian Church near me and find probably 50 churches within 20 miles of us.

Matthew Johnson (08:39):
Mm-hmm and we can go and look at all these churches, all their beliefs, who they are, where they're at, what they're teaching and we can window shop used to not be like that. You used to have to go into church or the window shopping was more, oh, these people have this service time, so I'll go check them out. now I can see everything about you. Uh, I can see everything your pastor has probably ever said. So you need to be very cognitive of that as you're building out your window, your website on what is it that you're trying to communicate about you about your church?

Nick Clason (09:16):
Yeah. And then like the, the, the nerdier you get into that, right. There's things like search engine optimization, words and titling and, and things like that. That you're also gonna want to start to explore at least get a handle on as you're building those things out. Right?

Matthew Johnson (09:34):
Yeah, absolutely. So then you can start once you define what you want your website to be, you can really get nitty gritty with, um, how we're gonna title everything and how you're gonna lay it all out. Um, what the proper course of action is, how you leading me to those calls to action. That's all super important stuff that you'll like, like a story brand is a great option to kinda learn how to do that. Um, but also just being able to like use Google trends, you just go to Google trends.com. You can type in like words that people are searching. And if you really wanna start like investing in some stuff, you can look at like SCM rush or href, which are both about a hundred dollars a month where you can actually look up search terms that people are using for your website specifically, and also what Google is weighing highest.

Matthew Johnson (10:27):
Hmm. Um, and what that's gonna do is, uh, if you, if you're like, okay, we're at the point that our church is growing, but we want to grow more and we want to reach new people. That's your best option to do that? Cause Google it, it's wild to think about what Google did. So, um, back in the days of when Yahoo was around, Yahoo was literally ran by librarians. Like you had a room full of librarians that would archive pages. So you'd go to Yahoo, you type in, um, churches near me or whatever, or, uh, um, looking for, you know, a Christian sermon. And it's only what the librarians have gotten through and archived. Um, that's to obviously change now, but that was back in the early days of the internet. And then Google came around and said, Hey, we're gonna make this automated through search terms through our search engine. And those will be weighed differently. And, uh, algorithm is constantly changing. So the best way for you to find out, to get more recognition is for you to find out what people in your area are looking for. Um, and then just make your website, your content targeted towards them.

Nick Clason (11:41):
Hmm. Yeah. Okay. So, so that's website, um, let's talk about app apps. Yep. So, you know, like if you and I are using our cell phones, most of us are interacting with people on our cell phones, through various apps. And so do you think that that's a platform worth looking into worth investing in for a church? I mean, it's, it feels like it would be a pretty hefty cost. And then, you know, if it's not a hefty cost, that means that you're probably getting a pretty basic, uh, service from a company that your app is gonna look, um, much like any of the other apps that are out there. And, uh, it's gonna look, it's gonna be very similar to, to your church's website. So couldn't, we just use a very like phone friendly, mobile friendly website. That's gonna, that's gonna play well on people's cell phones, as opposed to trying to get them to adopt an entire app or like, talk, talk me through this. What, what should we do with that? Should we do anything with that?

Matthew Johnson (12:45):
Yeah. Great, great question. So, um,

Matthew Johnson (12:52):
Yes, I will say the best course of Ash action is to just make, um, a mobile friendly website. Uh, so yeah, my professional opinion, the app should really be an interactive way to engage with your church, your congregation, your content, whatever it looks like. So it's not a front porch anymore. Like you're involved, like you're, I want people to come to our church and download our app so they can be as directly tied with everything we have going on. Hmm. But that's not for the wide people. So I'm not going out to people on Google or on our Facebook pages and going, Hey, download our app when I'm just trying to get them to come check out who we are like, that is, that's a deeper step. Like I'm asking you to put me on your phone forever. Mm-hmm I would say, yeah, mobile friendly website is the best place to start.

Matthew Johnson (13:55):
Then let's say you are a larger church and you're really trying to figure out what's next for your digital platform and what you should do online. Then I think the app is a great course of action of different things you can do on it that are not what your website does. mm-hmm so that's the key. The app cannot just be an extension of your website. Just have a mobile website at that point. Like your app should be, Hey, this is where all our small groups are facilitated at. Hey, this is, has a interactive map for us or, Hey, this is where all our content is. Or we do our prayer studies and there are Bible studies that'ss own world that is not directly correlated to your website.

Nick Clason (14:36):
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Uh, so moving on this, one's one of my favorites. I'm not sure if I've optimized it yet, but as a youth pastor, this is one of the things I love to try and, uh, both create, uh, but also challenge our like small group leaders and students to participate in. Uh, it's the U version Bible app, you know, they have a, they've built in some kind of social media components to it recently. Um, and one of my favorite things to do, and it was a thing that, you know, I, I think, uh, really came to a height during the pandemic and stuff was reading like devotional plans together. And I thought that was a great way to, to do spiritual practice in the other, um, hours of the week that weren't like our programming time for like small groups to do together, whatever, uh, obviously, you know, like the people at life church, they're the ones that put you version together and are continuing to run it and everything. Uh, are there any things that we can do as a church to optimize those better? Um, or, you know, think about them creatively to, uh, get our people to be en engaging with the Bible, uh, in that way, through that platform.

Matthew Johnson (15:54):
Yeah, absolutely. I love you version and what the team at life church has been able to kinda accomplish with that platform. Um, I think a great use of your version is finding content that is relevant to whatever you have going on in your church or as you, and I know if you wanna start getting, you know, a little crazier developing content for you version. So, um, both are great avenues, but I would just start with curating content on new version that it can actually facilitate conversations and you can create prayer request in it and, uh, um, be going through studies together. And it's just a good way to nurture and continue to have people think about your church other than on a Sunday. Yeah. And that's a big key of everything we're talking about is how do we get people to, you know, be engaged with church with your church, not more than one day a week, and as we know, more than one day a month, so,

Nick Clason (17:00):
Right. Yeah. Yeah. That, and that's interesting that you say that whole thing about, uh, once a month, that is, that's what we're seeing, right? One in every four, uh, an average attender or an engaged attender is attending one in every four weeks, which to your point is what you're saying is one, one once a month, which is why I think this hybrid approach is so like important. Like it's such an important thing because if we are only discipling people on the weeks that they attend church, that's 12 times a year, 12 hours a year, there is nothing in my life that I care about that I'm only giving 12 hours a year to yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. And so if faith is important and faith matters, it needs to happen more often. And yeah, like all of this right is an ownership step that we need to try and help facilitate for those people that are attending our church.

Nick Clason (18:00):
But the reality is is that you and I, as people who work at churches, uh, we've only made that priority a thing that we do once a week for our weekend services, you know, and we're just trying to, to challenge everyone to think outside of that box. Exactly. And to say, okay, great. Like we're already doing that. We're not throwing that baby out with the bath water, but what are the other ways in which we can disciple our people through the means and the, the avenues that they're already using through their cell phones and through online and through digital. So I think in a, in most cases now I wanna talk social media for a minute because in most cases, I think when people come to this idea of hybrid or digital, that's the first thing, right. That comes to everyone's brain is like, oh, so you're Spanish again, social media. Um, and that's true to an extent. Um, and so let's talk through some social platform. So the first one is, is Facebook, what is best practice on Facebook?

Matthew Johnson (19:04):
So Facebook you're gonna be reaching people that are probably 35 and older mm-hmm , um, usually, um, it's actually probably even older now it's more in your forties or older. So if your congregation's a little bit older, like that's a great platform to start navigating on. And what the real big use of Facebook I can see now is the Facebook groups, which we had talked about. Mm-hmm , um, in a earlier, earlier episode. Um, but really just getting some Facebook's groups going that you can actually create community that have people interacting with each other, and it's not a sole reliance on you. Um, also we just know Facebook has some massive plans with, you know, becoming meta and what web three looks like. So I just think it's always gonna be a part of our Zeki, no matter what. Um, and I think it's gonna probably morph into more of this web three platform, which then you start getting crazy with like virtual reality and, you know, the metaverse and stuff. But I, I would not worry about that yet. Um, I would just stick to, let's create some Facebook groups. Let's do, uh, let's have a strategy behind when we're posting content and why we post content. Um, I always say start with the why of what you're doing. Um, and if you're just using Facebook to promote stuff, stop doing that. ,

Nick Clason (20:30):

Matthew Johnson (20:31):
Just, let's be, uh, more creative and cognitive, uh, what people want and promotional stuff is just gonna fall in deaf ears. So, uh,

Nick Clason (20:40):
So let's, let's, let's actually talk about that for just a second, because I think that's, that is a, a standard default for a lot of churches is, um, just create, uh, like it is, it has like another billboard or another avenue to announce your things. Um, so if you're not, if we're in the event business as a church a little bit, like, you know, it's not events more spiritual than an event, but yeah. Like we're hosting an in person thing, uh, that feels a lot like an event. What are we, what should we be doing then on social media, on Facebook, if we're not posting it as events, what are things that we can be putting on there that people are actually gonna want to engage with?

Matthew Johnson (21:23):
Yeah. Great question. So this is something I've been wrestling with, um, from the marketing world for the last few weeks, actually. So I think we, as people that are communicating, we, uh, we need to get away from the industrial realistic nature of marketing. So what I mean by that is we're trading like everyone, like their cog and this machine of communication. Um, when we know every single person is unique and different. So what is the content that people are gonna engage with? Well, the biggest content that anyone will engage with is story based content mm-hmm . So tell the stories of the people at your church. Hmm. Tell the stories of what your church has been doing for your community. Not about, um, it doesn't only have to be about, Hey, join us Sunday, but like share when you guys are going to the food pantries and serving share when you guys are having block parties and, uh, the life change that people will experience at your church because we know that's what people wanna be involved with. We know that isolation, loneliness, and anxieties at an all time high and that people are searching for community mm-hmm and relationships. So share those stories and you're gonna get a lot more engagement than just, Hey, join us Sunday, or Hey, check out this worship that we did. Um, yeah. That stuff is fine, but that should not be the only thing you do.

Nick Clason (22:52):
Yeah. I think, uh, I mean, think about this, right? Like why do you get on social media? Like mm-hmm, I get on social media to be entertained, uh, to laugh or, you know, maybe to be inspired. Yeah. But I don't get on there to learn about events. Yep. Almost, almost never.

Matthew Johnson (23:11):
Exactly.

Nick Clason (23:12):
And so, you know, and I think, you know, we're gonna get to in a second talking about TikTok and Instagram, uh, but I think that's Mo that's where a lot of people are kind of going to, you know, it's like that short form video content, cuz it's, it's funny, you know, that's that's I, when I share something, I share something that's funny, you know, exactly. Or maybe a little bit inspirational, but for the most part, something that I think is funny so let's, let's move that way then. So let's talk about Instagram. Um, Instagram is obviously owned by MEA, which is owned, which is the parent company of Facebook and all that stuff. So should your Instagram strategy be similar to that of Facebook? Should it be identical to that of Facebook? Because you can do that right. Where you can post on Instagram and duplicate that exact same content over to your Facebook page. Um, is that the best practice for Instagram right now? Or what are you seeing out there?

Matthew Johnson (24:04):
No, so you definitely can just, you know, post straight from Instagram to Facebook, that's the easy way out, but you'll probably see one of your platforms as doing better than the other. And the reason is, is cuz it's drastically different demographics on both platforms. Like I said, Facebook is older, you're gonna have, let's just say 40 and up Instagram is gonna be your millennial. Yeah. They're starting to get weary on the, on just the Instagram algorithm. Um, so people are using Instagram. They're not liking as much, they're scrolling more. Um, so that is, uh, something you also be need to be cognitive of. So really your Instagram content should just be strong piffy storytelling content that is meant to either entertain or make me feel. And honestly the win on Instagram right now is short form video.

Nick Clason (24:58):
Yeah. And that's very TikTok adjacent, correct?

Matthew Johnson (25:03):
Yep. Yep.

Nick Clason (25:04):
So what's so is there best practice then on if you're posting content to TikTok that's a minute or under 30 seconds or under, should you also then be posting that same thing on Instagram reels should or should those be individual pieces of content?

Matthew Johnson (25:22):
So right now, as we're recording this, I would say post your TikTok content on Instagram with your TikTok watermark on Instagram, cuz the TikTok demographic is gonna be your 18 to 25, 18 to 30 year olds. So you are still hitting a very similar demographic. Um, and you can kind of kill two birds with one stone. Uh, but TikTok should be your more entertaining, fun stuff. Um, I will say it's pretty hard to go viral inspirational on TikTok. It's a lot easy to go viral on Instagram with uh, inspirational. So, Hmm.

Nick Clason (25:59):
So that's interesting that you say that before we, before we jump straight to TikTok, um, Instagram feed posts, Instagram story posts. Are there still value in those or are you saying double down on, on like reels and abandon those other things?

Matthew Johnson (26:17):
I would double down on reels and stories. So stories is still, um, a massive driving factor for people on Instagram. You'll actually see most people get on Instagram. And the first thing they do is scroll through, um, as many stories as they can. Now, what I will say to help you on Instagram is to go live on Instagram more. Mm um, so why I say that is cuz Instagram pushes that content higher still and you can get on front of people's feeds on their stories quicker if you go live. So if people aren't liking your content or they're not scrolling through your story, going live will help you get in front of their eyes more.

Nick Clason (26:59):
Now you now back to the, you talked about posting with your TikTok watermark. Are you, are you saying do that as a, as a way to promote and raise awareness that you do have a TikTok account?

Matthew Johnson (27:13):
Yep. So right now that is what they're recommending is that you post from TikTok to Instagram, with the TikTok watermark, cuz it shows that you're on TikTok and also Nick, you and I both know, um, content takes off quicker on TikTok and usually it takes off more virally on TikTok before it will Instagram. So I'll be scrolling through Instagram reels and I'll see a TikTok that I saw last week that already had gone viral. Yeah. And it's just cuz talk's algorithm is just next level crazy, which also has a lot of concerns behind it. But we could talk about that earlier.

Nick Clason (27:51):
Yeah. It's so interesting that you say that though. Cuz even, uh, even in my own experience, like I'm looking right now on our church, social media and everything that was first posted to TikTok and then posted to Rios has almost no views on, on Instagram, but it's doing well over on TikTok. And so that's been a, that's been a little bit of a thing to try and kind of navigate. So let's talk TikTok then for a minute, should we be on it? It feels like it's a place we sh you know, a lot of church people are maybe even scared of it. And so if we've been trending younger is TikTok the youngest of all the platforms that we're talking about.

Matthew Johnson (28:30):
So we're gonna talk about today. Yeah. It would be the youngest. So your demographic is gonna be that, um, 18 early or later gen Z to, uh, you know, 30, 25 to 30. So okay.

Nick Clason (28:46):
And, and best practice on there is like, we've been saying short form video. You can do trends, you can do maybe inspiring inspirational content, um, and also just humor. Right?

Matthew Johnson (28:58):
Yeah. TikTok is really good for that humor aspect. Like you can definitely do some inspirational stuff. Um, and it's also the hashtag feature of it is, uh, a great way to find other like minded tiktokers. Um, like I said, the algorithm of TikTok is very effective, but I also do understand the reservations behind TikTok with, uh, just everything behind it. So, um, but I will say that is where your younger audience is and if you wanna be reaching those people, you need to go there. Unfortunately.

Nick Clason (29:29):
And the thing that's so crazy that changes the AB the absolute game with TikTok is even as like, I look into our like specific analytics, I was looking at them yesterday. Um, the majority of, uh, people who watch your videos, um, at least ours are not followers of ours, right? Mm-hmm, , they're, they're people that discover us from like the four U page.

Matthew Johnson (29:55):
Exactly.

Nick Clason (29:55):
Which is, you know, so much different than the way that we've treated social over the years. And so in a lot of ways is TikTok, can it be an evangelistic tool? Can it be like a way to reach people that aren't connected to your church? Is that a good strategy for it? It feels like sort of the opposite of what we've been talking about with going hybrid.

Matthew Johnson (30:15):
Yeah. You definitely can reach people with TikTok and you just need to have a strategy behind where do you take someone from TikTok to this hybrid approach. And that's what, we're not seeing a lot of that right now of like, okay, you get people watching the videos on TikTok, but now what

Nick Clason (30:31):
Mm-hmm

Matthew Johnson (30:32):
Mm-hmm so you gotta give them that next call to action and take them to your church website or to your online platform, whatever that looks

Nick Clason (30:38):
Like. Yeah. All right. So this one's up for debate a little bit discord, is that a social media platform? What even is discord and why, why did you tell me to add it to our outline?

Matthew Johnson (30:51):
Great question. So discord is, um, I think you can probably consider it a social media platform right now, but what I love about discord is the aspect that you can create very curated, focused groups. Um, there's a lot of really cool stuff you can do on discord, and you can create different breakout rooms. Um, you can create different channels that people can talk about different stuff. So, uh, I, uh, have been involved with a couple of new Christian discords that people have been wanting me to help them, um, get going. So what you can do in discord is like this one that I'm in is like, there's a whole prayer request, channel Bible, verse channel, David stories, channel general chat. And it's really, um, and you can just break it down more and more and more like, you can create your, you, if you wanna do a sports league in it or whatever, you can do that.

Matthew Johnson (31:50):
And, uh, um, there's like a lot of fun stuff you can do in it. What's good about it is that you're getting all like-minded people in that discord together. Mm-hmm so you can actually talk about, Hey, we have X, Y, and Z going on in youth group also, here's where all our prayer request is. And here we're talking about fantasy and, um, you're getting your community built together in a very cohesive platform. And I will also tell you, is that your young people in your church are on discord? Hmm. Um, most of them are, especially if, uh, so like during the pandemic something I heard all the time, as we were trying to get everyone to go to teams and zoomed and, um, trying to do these virtual events, uh, there was all these kids that were telling me, why are you guys not just using discord?

Matthew Johnson (32:37):
We're already on it? Mm-hmm . And I was like, and I laughed, cuz I've been on discord for years, but I've always thought about it as a gaming thing, but it's more than a gaming thing. Now it's now a chat functionality that you can create your community in. So if you wanted to put your youth group in there, you could, if you wanted to put your women's ministry in there, you could, and learning curve is really easy for it. Hmm. And you have a captive audience that is interested in your, in your group, your culture and what you're doing. So whatever you communicate they're gonna be engaged with.

Nick Clason (33:09):
Yeah. That's interesting that you, that you say that the learning curve thing, cause I think that's probably everyone's biggest reservation, right. Is the introduction of a new platform. How hard is it gonna be to figure out? So, um, yeah. Great. All right, Matt, last one, text messaging. Uh, I recently heard that the open rate on a text message is 99%. Is that true?

Matthew Johnson (33:35):
Yeah,

Nick Clason (33:36):
That's crazy. So that has to be a platform that we should be using as churches, right?

Matthew Johnson (33:43):
Yeah, absolutely. Um, so texting is the best, one of the best ways to do communication period. Um, we know people reply to text messages and open text messages, um, way more than email as you just talked about with open rate. Um, also, uh, if people give you, if they trust you enough to give you their number to text, 'em the trust level with you and your church, um, is extremely high, which that tells me immediately is, oh, I can communicate, uh, differently with these people. Cause I've already built that trust bridge with them.

Nick Clason (34:23):
Mm-hmm yeah. Yeah. And again, to, to the point that we're making with all of this, right? So if we go back through web and app, you version social media platforms, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, discord, and text messaging, every single one of those things exists in you and my pocket every single day. Yep. And so the, our people from our church are carrying the access to all of these things with them every single day of the week. And so I think as a church, it's a miss, right? If we're only, uh, talking to them once a week on Sunday, but then if we break that down, even more understanding that people are only coming to church once a month, we're only talking to them 12 times a year. Why would we not try to create connection, create discipleship, content, create inspirational things through the things that they're carrying around with them every single day of the week.

Matthew Johnson (35:30):
Exactly.

Nick Clason (35:31):
So, so that's what, that's the idea. Uh, this was very nitty gritty and, uh, you know, appreciate Matt, all of your marketing knowledge and demographic studies and everything that you have, man, cuz uh, I know the reason that, uh, the reason that I love having you on this is because you are just for me an absolute wealth of knowledge. So I hope that, uh, as everyone else who's listened to this, able to pick your brain, um, or just hear some of these things about all these different platforms is advantageous to them. Um, beneficial. So I appreciate, I appreciate that, man.

Matthew Johnson (36:08):
Yeah. Don't thank you. I appreciate it. It's been a blast and I hope everyone's going, uh, get something out of this. So

Nick Clason (36:14):
gosh, I can't imagine that they didn't so good. Hey again, thanks everyone for hanging out. Uh, feel free to subscribe. Give us a rating. If you find this helpful, share it with a friend. Um, you can follow along on Twitter at hybrid ministry and online at hybridministry.xyz Uh, but until next time we will talk to you all later.