🎬 THE ULTIMATE CHRISTMAS MOVIE SHOWDOWN
https://www.downloadyouthministry.com/p/the-ultimate-christmas-movie-showdown/christmas/christmas-games-9784.html

DESCRIPTION
🎄 It’s the most wonderful time of the year! Ready to throw the BEST Youth Ministry Christmas Party ever? 🎉 In this episode, Nick Clason of the Hybrid Ministry Podcast spills the peppermint-flavored tea on how to make your event unforgettable! 🏆 Whether it’s the Ultimate Christmas Movie Showdown, hilarious games, or social media outreach, this guide has it ALL.

🌟 Grab the downloadable Christmas party resource on Download Youth Ministry—complete with voting brackets, social media assets, and everything you need to pull off a high-energy, crowd-engaging event that doubles as a killer social media strategy. 🎅✨

👇 Grab the resource now: DownloadYouthMinistry.com

🎬 Watch till the end for tips on engaging Gen Alpha and crushing it on YouTube. And as always, my friends, stay hybrid! 🚀

📓 SHOWNOTES
http://www.hybridministry.xyz/126

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🕰️TIMECODES
00:00 Make Your Christmas Event Pop This Year!
01:59 How to Use a Bracket?
03:56 The Ultimate Christmas Movie Showdown Explained
05:25 The 16 Movies
06:20 What's Included in the Download?
10:00 How do you Crown a Winner?
12:27 Our Hybrid December Plans
14:14 YouTube for your Youth Ministry

--------------
✍️ TRANSCRIPT
00:00:00:00 - 00:00:01:16
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
Student

00:00:01:16 - 00:00:06:05
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
ministry Christmas party. I mean, it is the preeminent

00:00:06:05 - 00:00:08:18
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
event of the year. You play

00:00:08:18 - 00:00:19:09
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
dozens of games, you eat even more sweets, and you serve hot chocolate. Maybe you play a Christmas movie. What if I told you that I had the

00:00:19:09 - 00:00:26:09
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
event that was going to make your Christmas party? Absolutely pop? Well,

00:00:26:09 - 00:00:26:29
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
here it is. It

00:00:26:29 - 00:00:31:09
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
Oh.

00:00:36:02 - 00:00:40:29
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
and incorporate this style of event, along with all of the other ways

00:00:40:29 - 00:00:50:00
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
that if you don't want to use it for your party, or it's a little bit too late to lead in to your party, that you can use this style of resource if you scrub ahead,

00:00:50:00 - 00:00:55:04
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
I am going to go ahead and offer this resource to you so you can go ahead and check that out.

00:00:55:08 - 00:01:18:21
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
If you're watching here on screen, you can see that timestamp. If not, just hit the link down below in the show notes or head to Hybridministry.xyz/127. But we are going to talk Christmas party. We're going to talk outreach and we're going to talk social media. And this event has all of those. And this product has all those wrapped into one single thing.

00:01:18:21 - 00:01:18:27
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
If you're

00:01:18:27 - 00:01:23:03
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
Oh.

00:01:23:03 - 00:01:36:03
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
meetings and things you have to do. You got to come up with games and lessons and and manage parents and volunteers and senior pastors and oh yeah, social media and oh yeah, the Christmas event and. Oh yeah, and oh yeah. And oh

00:01:36:03 - 00:01:36:19
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
yeah.

00:01:36:19 - 00:01:48:01
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
And oh yeah. But in this event guide, you will have the ability to crush, social media outreach and your Christmas party all in one fell swoop. It is going to be amazing.

00:01:48:01 - 00:01:52:11
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
Oh.

00:01:54:25 - 00:01:56:15
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
Ow ow ow! Oh!

00:01:56:21 - 00:01:58:14
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
Tis the season. Let's hop in.

00:01:58:14 - 00:02:00:26
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
So in

00:02:00:26 - 00:02:02:16
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
Ow ow ow! Oh!

00:02:18:19 - 00:02:25:08
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
here at the top of the YouTube video, I did the ultimate event guide to the World's Greatest donut that,

00:02:25:10 - 00:02:42:17
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
And in that video you can download my event guide. It's complete with a shopping list and all those types of things. And also sends you to download Youth Ministry where you can buy this voting style event. But this has been something that has been a staple of my ministry and a staple of honestly, what I've done for years.

00:02:42:17 - 00:03:04:01
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
And essentially I'm borrowing from the like, wave or the popularity of like a march madness bracket style voting. And so, like in our space, we have this big window that opens into like a small sort of like half court indoor gymnasium sort of deal. And we printed a custom size vinyl banner, for six, for a 16 team bracket.

00:03:04:04 - 00:03:22:26
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
And then we put, those things we just, you know, print them out on computer paper or whatever, cut them out. And we do these, like, style events 2 or 3 times throughout the year. So like I said in that video linked, just a second ago, we have done like the world's greatest donut. We have voted on the best.

00:03:22:26 - 00:03:34:11
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
We did last March Madness. One year we have voted on the world's best, like, mascot. And then that mascot became our official student ministry mascot. Shout out to Pugsley

00:03:34:11 - 00:03:38:02
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
the platypus! We've done all sorts of different like voting

00:03:38:02 - 00:03:49:06
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
and challenge based style things. It's just like a fun way to sort of like, create, competition and conversation around something for like several weeks in a row.

00:03:49:06 - 00:03:50:29
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
And in this particular instance, we're

00:03:50:29 - 00:03:56:04
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
doing the ultimate Christmas movie showdown. Now, by the time that this video drops, you're

00:03:56:04 - 00:03:57:24
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
Ow ow ow! Oh!

00:03:57:24 - 00:04:13:20
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
Christmas party or even slightly beyond your Christmas party. But if you have not made it yet to your Christmas party, then what you can do. And this is what we did. We did a Christmas movie watch party, but we're allowing the students to vote on the Christmas movie.

00:04:13:20 - 00:04:37:14
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
And so that's what's really cool, is we actually at our costume party on the 30th of October, we revealed that the Christmas bracket was now live, and then the students could vote on it. And the best thing about this is, again, if this is already past, your party's already past. You can do something like this just very simply on social media, during sort of the holiday lull, you can do, every week is a new round or you can do it.

00:04:37:14 - 00:04:42:22
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
Every day is a new round. And that's the thing. Like so even if like you download this now

00:04:42:22 - 00:04:52:24
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
and then you go and you play a movie at your Christmas event next week, you can do every day on social media as a round. And there's all sorts of different ways to capture

00:04:52:24 - 00:05:04:19
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
Elf white Christmas elf faces off against White Christmas. That's the one seed versus the 16. They're not listed there. But you know, and once the students start voting, you can tell who the overall one seed is.

00:05:04:24 - 00:05:31:21
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
Then in the eight nine matchup we have Frosty the Snowman versus the year without a Santa Claus. Then in the four I think 13 413 matchup, we have Christmas vacation pairing off against Christmas with the Kranks Muppet Christmas Carol versus Rudolph the Red-Nosed reindeer, Home Alone, which is the two seed versus It's a Wonderful Life A Christmas Story, which is a seven versus Polar Express, which is a ten, the Santa Claus, which is a three, versus Jingle All the Way, which is like a 14, I think.

00:05:25:00 - 00:05:26:20
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
Ow ow ow! Oh!

00:05:31:25 - 00:05:42:17
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
And then Santa Claus is Coming to Town versus How the Grinch Stole Christmas in the six versus, I think, 11 match up there. And so this PowerPoint file, you can very simply edit the winners. Right? So if elf beats white Christmas in the voting, you can move it ahead. And you can use that in your space to write these in.

00:06:18:28 - 00:06:20:18
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
Ow ow ow! Oh!

00:06:20:18 - 00:06:26:25
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
Right? So if elf beats white Christmas in the voting, you can move it ahead. And you can use that in your space to write these in.

00:06:26:25 - 00:06:35:13
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
So I have the winners sort of as like placeholders. In there that you can like, you know, make sure that you can move them on. But

00:06:35:13 - 00:06:43:25
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
here's the thing. Every single round in every single context is going to be different. Maybe you are a big white Christmas church, and all of your students are going to pick White Christmas.

00:06:43:25 - 00:06:52:21
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
That's great. Then go with it. Go for it. Okay. Additionally, you can, use and use this, like I said, on social media. So a couple of my

00:06:52:21 - 00:06:53:12
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
favorite ways to

00:06:53:12 - 00:07:03:06
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
do it are on Instagram Stories. And also now for Generation Alpha, who is, widely and widely adopting YouTube as one of their platforms of choice.

00:07:03:09 - 00:07:08:29
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
You can post on your YouTube posts page section, a voting poll option with images

00:07:08:29 - 00:07:22:16
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
and stuff like that. And so I've included some social graphics that are still. And so it's your title to your overall bracket. You can write in the winners each round and then, round one graphic, an elite eight graphic, a Final Four graphic, and a championship round graphic.

00:07:22:19 - 00:07:43:26
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
And then you just very simply stick the question sticker on that graphic. I also have social media videos which, pair and look similar to the widescreen video. So there's a title graphic with, you know, some kind of like distance sleigh bells chime in like some Christmas like, chiming things and then like a round one graphic, elite eight graphic, a final four.

00:07:43:29 - 00:07:55:00
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
All these are videos and championship. And then there are profile cards. And so these are really fun. Every single movie, there's 16 movies. Every single movie has four different

00:07:55:00 - 00:08:05:17
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
profile cards, both for social media and for, your widescreen in your room. And so, for example, in round one, you might put up the Elf profile card, the very

00:08:05:17 - 00:08:11:07
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
first Elf profile card versus this and next to the very first white Christmas profile card.

00:08:11:07 - 00:08:31:02
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
So like right here, if you're watching on the screen, you'll see it says like elf, released in 2003, Will Ferrell shines as buddy, a human race, as an elf who travels to New York to meet his real father. But there, like I said, there are four different profile cards because in the next round of elf advances, you will use the second, fact.

00:08:31:02 - 00:08:49:09
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
So you're not just sharing the same fact every single week, week in, week out. So this next one is about who Jon Favreau, who, helped. The movie grossed over 220 million worldwide on a $33 million budget, became a Christmas favorite. The third one's about, Will Ferrell's improv skills, and the fourth one is a fun fact that

00:08:49:09 - 00:08:55:13
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
his iconic walk through New York was done candidly and is capturing real reactions from New Yorkers.

00:08:55:13 - 00:08:55:28
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
Now

00:08:55:28 - 00:09:17:10
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
you're like, okay, that's great, but what if White Christmas wins? That's why there's four for White Christmas. Now, if White Christmas loses, you're obviously not going to be using fact two, fact 3 or 4, right. But in the event that upsets happen, in the event that that movies keep moving on, there are four because there's four rounds round one, Elite eight, Final Four, and then championship round for you to share those graphics.

00:09:17:10 - 00:09:37:18
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
Okay. And so we have that for social media for still graphics. We have social video graphics. We also have widescreen graphics that you can use and put in your space. Along with those profile card kind of things that you can also put in your space video as well as stills. And then there's paper voting as an option.

00:09:37:18 - 00:09:52:00
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
So we'll get to the ways that you can do voting here in just a minute. There's Photoshop files. If you do happen to have Photoshop editing skills. And then finally there are some just like transparent, no background, assets like the logo and the round one, elite eight, all that type of stuff. So

00:09:52:00 - 00:09:55:19
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
all of that is included in this download, just a few bucks.

00:09:55:21 - 00:09:58:03
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
And like I said, how can you go about

00:09:58:03 - 00:09:59:23
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
Ow ow ow! Oh!

00:10:08:26 - 00:10:15:26
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
of my podcast, Hybrid Ministry ten as a discount code, and you get 10% off your purchase of either Premium or Premium Plus.

00:10:16:01 - 00:10:32:00
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
But if you're using sidekick, you can use the phone connections and the voting option, and students can vote live right there directly in the room. And so you can do all of your matchups right there. And you can do that week in, week out. Now, what do you do about students who don't have phones? Well, that's one of the reasons why I included the

00:10:32:00 - 00:10:39:10
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
paper printable bracket so that those students aren't left out and so that they have an opportunity to also let their voice be heard.

00:10:39:12 - 00:10:57:29
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
Well, you might be thinking, well, what happens if, my Christmas party has already passed or I don't have a way to get this, done? In the amount of weeks we have leading up to our Christmas party, no problem. Download this and just post them on social media. And then when people show up to your Christmas party, you'd be like, hey, we're watching How the Grinch Stole Christmas because it was voted on by you.

00:10:57:29 - 00:11:15:04
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
The people on social media. Congratulations to the Grinch. And so you could do this in just four days. Round one, Elite Eight, Final Four, and then the championship. And then you have your event. So if your Christmas party is in seven days, you can theoretically crush this and get this in any time of year if you want to launch it.

00:11:15:07 - 00:11:32:02
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
You know, depending on when you're watching this, if you have enough time, you can launch it all through the month of December leading into your movie. Or like I said, you can do it all on social using either Instagram voting or the YouTube post. Now here's the good news about that is when you promote it in the room, like, hey, voting is live!

00:11:32:04 - 00:11:39:23
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
One of the things I've done, I'll show you a graphic of what we're using. It's not included in the download because it's it's custom to us. But just to give you an idea, I just

00:11:39:23 - 00:11:50:16
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
linked a QR code to our link tree, which has all of our different social handles. And so it says, hey, voting is still live and the winning movie will get, we'll get watch it.

00:11:50:16 - 00:11:55:13
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
Our Christmas party on you know, December 4th or whatever. I've sent that out in our text list. We've sent it out to our parent

00:11:55:13 - 00:11:55:23
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
Patreon. If you didn't know, we just launched a Patreon and it is going to be walking through my weekly lessons and it's, or a different bonus podcast every single week. It's $4 per month and you get a different bonus podcast per week. So essentially it nets out to a dollar or even slightly less than a dollar per podcast episode.

00:12:24:28 - 00:12:26:18
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
Ow ow ow! Oh!

00:12:29:00 - 00:12:45:13
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
If you didn't know, we just launched a Patreon and it is going to be walking through my weekly lessons and it's, or a different bonus podcast every single week. It's $4 per month and you get a different bonus podcast per week. So essentially it nets

00:12:45:13 - 00:12:51:02
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
out to a dollar or even slightly less than a dollar per podcast episode.

00:12:51:02 - 00:13:08:17
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
I think it's a very modest amount. I would love to encourage you to go over there and check it out. I think you can probably find four bucks a month in your budget, but even if you can't, I just want to let you know that, like we're going to use it to invest deeper into the podcast gear and all sorts of things like that.

00:13:08:17 - 00:13:27:01
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
And so I'd love to encourage you to go check that out. But we're going to be walking through these lessons, and this is what we're going to be talking about over on that Patreon is what what are the Christmas at the movie lessons? And then, what are the we're also doing? Like we're avoiding the big announcement time before we break into small groups.

00:13:27:01 - 00:13:46:00
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
And so our students are going to go into our sort of like small group rooms directly at the end of the countdown. And each of our rooms has a TV on a cart, which is brand new. And so we're going to link that to a YouTube playlist, and there's going to be a small group activity. There's going to be an announcement corner filmed and put there on that playlist.

00:13:46:00 - 00:13:48:09
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
And then the teaching where we may teach a

00:13:48:09 - 00:14:01:27
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
little bit, pause for questions, teach a little bit, pause for questions, teach a little bit, pause for some more questions. So we're really trying to lean in sort of to that kind of hybrid thing. And I'm going to detail and explain all of that what we're doing over on that Patreon.

00:14:01:27 - 00:14:10:29
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
So I would love to have you go check that out. There's also some other kind of bonus perks and stuff like that. And as I'm describing this, you might be hearing me talk about YouTube in

00:14:10:29 - 00:14:11:11
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
all

00:14:11:11 - 00:14:13:01
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
Ow ow ow! Oh!

00:14:15:20 - 00:14:16:00
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
YouTube,

00:14:16:00 - 00:14:22:24
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
because I think it's important to put spiritual and evergreen content over there on YouTube for our students.

00:14:22:26 - 00:14:43:08
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
You know, Generation Alpha is now saying that YouTube is now their preferred search engine, even over Google. And so there's value to that. And, I actually offer either some custom coaching to help you level it up or communications done for you, or I'll actually just do it for you if that's something that you're interested in, go ahead and check the show notes or the link down below in the YouTube description.

00:14:43:13 - 00:15:12:19
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
The link to right here on screen is my complete and full strategy of how we launched and developed a YouTube for youth ministry. It's the free version of that coaching, and then the coaching will take you sort of into that. More customization, but I hope that you grab this product if you have an amazing Christmas event, I hope you can use it to knock outreach out of the park, to have an amazing event, and also crush social media, whether you're using it for the event or just during the lull of the holiday season.

00:15:12:26 - 00:15:18:21
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
Don't forget my friends and as always, to stay hybrid.

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DESCRIPTION
Pastor, would you like to reach 300,000 people?
Maybe you don’t even want virality, you just want to be relevant online, to serve guests and your existing church members
Whatever the reason, I wonder…
Which components of your discipleship strategy are digital?
Are any?

======================================
📓SHOWNOTES
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//PRACTICING THE WAY
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//NIEUWHOF’S TRENDS ARTICLE
https://careynieuwhof.com/church-trends-2024/

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Website: https://www.hybridministry.xyz

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--------------
🕰️TIMECODES
00:00 Pastor, Want to Reach People Better?
01:46 Church's Lack of Online Innovation
03:24 My FREE Guide to Digital Ministry
03:46 Eye-Popping Statistics about Millenial and Gen Z Church Attendance
05:46 Custom Hybrid Coaching
07:23 The Online Funnel
08:45 Church Communications Done for You

--------------
✍️TRANSCRIPT
00:00:00:00 - 00:00:07:29
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
Pastor, church leader. Would you like to reach 300,000 people? I mean, maybe you would.

00:00:07:29 - 00:00:19:21
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
but maybe that's not even your goal. Maybe when you think about online ministry and digital approaches to church, maybe virality isn't your goal. Maybe you just simply want to serve your

00:00:19:21 - 00:00:22:28
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
guests and your members really well.

00:00:22:28 - 00:00:31:22
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
Whatever the reason is, I wonder which components of your church and of your discipleship strategy are

00:00:31:22 - 00:00:32:13
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
digital.

00:00:32:16 - 00:00:34:28
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
Are there are there even any? You know,

00:00:34:28 - 00:00:41:27
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
Carey Nieuwhof recently wrote this about the church's sometimes archaic approach to to church and to discipleship. He said

00:00:41:27 - 00:00:58:18
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
most churches approach it like this. Let's just get people in our building. Let's just get people in the room, and then we'll figure out how to disciple them. Well, in this episode, what I want to do is I want to share with you how churches are reaching people, specifically young people, online.

00:00:58:19 - 00:01:13:01
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
I'm also going to share with you some eye opening statistics about generation Z and millennials and their church attendance, and how that should frame your solution to the online and digital conundrum. But stick around to the end of the video, because I have a

00:01:13:01 - 00:01:19:07
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
solution that's going to cost you next to nothing that can maximize your impact online.

00:01:19:09 - 00:01:19:23
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
Hey there

00:01:19:23 - 00:01:38:14
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
everyone! My name is Nicholas, and if you and I haven't had a chance to meet yet, welcome to the Hybrid Ministry show. I've been in youth ministry for 14 years, and thus I've also been in digitally integrated ministry for 14 years. And in recent years I have upped the ante on that. And I have gone all in on digital and content marketing

00:01:38:14 - 00:01:43:02
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
in the context of church and in the context of youth ministry.

00:01:43:02 - 00:02:14:06
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
So I'm so excited to have you here. Let's hop in. You know, there are churches, believe it or not, out there like church home like Life Church that are reaching thousands of young adults and they're doing it online. In fact, John Mark Comber has a delivery system for discipleship resources in his Discipleship Resource Delivery system is 100% through his digital platform called Practicing the Way You Know in the article link down below that I am referencing that Karen you have talked about.

00:02:14:13 - 00:02:16:00
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
He said this. He said after a

00:02:16:00 - 00:02:40:28
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
brief period for churches of innovation with all kinds of online ministries, churches offered during Covid when it first hit, most churches have toggled back to simply stream their weekend services and using social media to either share last week's service or to advertise their next service. Live streaming your weekend service taps about 1% of the potential that online ministry has to offer.

00:02:40:29 - 00:02:59:27
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
But I would imagine if you're in church or in pastoral ministry, you probably feel as though you don't have time, especially when it pertains to digital and especially when it pertains to online, because it can just be a totally new skillset, and entering into a new skill set is never a fun phenomenon, because you gotta learn so many things.

00:02:59:27 - 00:03:22:29
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
So give me a like, if any of these things that I'm about to share are things that you've had to do within the past week, give me. Like if you've had to write a sermon or enter into a counseling appointment, or if you've had to focus on community outreach of sorts, or heaven forbid, give me a like if you've even had to do some administrative duties, I should have hundreds of likes on this video.

00:03:22:29 - 00:03:36:05
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
At this point, I want you to give me a subscribe. If you instantly think to yourself with all those to do, how in the world am I supposed to make social media and digital a priority? I have some good news for you. Link down below is my completely

00:03:36:05 - 00:03:41:14
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
free full strategy guide. It's how I grew our channels and had to how

00:03:41:14 - 00:03:45:12
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
I approach social and digital media here in the context that I'm in.

00:03:45:12 - 00:04:11:02
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
If you're watching here on YouTube, in the article that I link down below, you can also go check it out. Carey Nieuwhof is the millennial generation is now squarely your church's main focus. Or it should be because, church attendance has gone up. For millennials, it's higher than gen X and it's higher than boomers. Furthermore, according to a study done by Barna a couple of years back, millennial church goers said this.

00:04:11:02 - 00:04:26:22
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
They said hybrid church just as much as physical church will be a good this good fit for them. Furthermore, I want to share some of these statistics with you. If you're watching here on YouTube, you can see them, but it says, the question was,

00:04:26:22 - 00:04:33:08
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
do you use the internet for faith purposes? Do you use the internet as a faith supplement?

00:04:33:08 - 00:05:00:03
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
Do you use the internet as a substitute for physical church church? Gen Z, unsurprisingly, was the highest, with 67% using it for faith purposes. 56% using it as a faith supplement, and 58% using it as a substitute for physical church. Millennials were next, with 64% using it for faith purposes. 46% as a faith supplement, and 51% as a substitute for physical church and then church.

00:05:00:09 - 00:05:14:00
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
Gen X and boomers go 58 and 42 for faith purposes, 45 and 32 for a faith supplement, and 44 and 40 for a, substitute for physical church. And I share all of

00:05:14:00 - 00:05:22:21
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
those to say is that the strategy of let's just get them here in the room is not going to work anymore, and you can try that.

00:05:22:21 - 00:05:46:07
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
That's fine. And I get why we would be prone to want to do that, because in this same article by Barna, the, future of the hybrid church, which I'll link down below in the shownotes if you want to check that out. Purchase product, but it's fantastic. It's fantastic. There is a, there is still a desire to gather together, which is why it's I like to call it hybrid.

00:05:46:07 - 00:06:08:22
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
It's not just digital. It's not just what we had during Covid, which was only digital. Right? It's it's digital plus in person. So in-person still has, a job to do. And so what I want to offer to you is you can grab my free e-book, but if you get in there and you're like, I don't know what's best for us, and we'll let you know about some custom coaching that I have to offer.

00:06:08:22 - 00:06:29:05
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
My custom coaching is four sessions long. $50 per session will be $200 out of your overall budget, which is absolutely pennies in the in the drop in the bucket in an overall church size budget. But if you know, even that is too much, reach out. We can make something work. But the reason that custom coaching is important is because every context is different.

00:06:29:10 - 00:06:53:09
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
I can tell you what I'm doing here in DFW, Dallas-Fort worth area, to reach, in my context, Gen Z or young, you know, basically almost done with Gen Z to Gen Alpha. But and that might be helpful because if you're managing church social media for an overall church, like, well, we're doing is very going to be very cutting edge for, you know, like older Gen Z and even like millennials.

00:06:53:12 - 00:07:15:01
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
But every church in every context and every geographical area is a little bit different. I was recently, coaching another guy, and, my typical like, strategy, I changed it and tweaked it a little bit for him because he was doing things just a little bit differently. His context was a little bit different, and his role was a little bit unique compared to what I typically would tell people to do.

00:07:15:01 - 00:07:34:03
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
And so even I was, you know, thinking through and adjusting my model. And so it's important because everyone in every place is different. And so you can get my free guide and you can use what works, you know, for you out of that. But if you want to even tap in just a little bit further to some of the uniqueness of every context, that's where customized coaching comes in.

00:07:34:03 - 00:07:58:18
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
Because here's the thing. For you and for me and for all of us, like, my like, general strategy is simply, walking down a funnel of posting short form content, silly content, as well as spiritual content, and hopefully gathering an audience with that and then pushing them to, like a long form version of some more serious spiritual content, which is what we do in our youth ministry.

00:07:58:18 - 00:08:27:07
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
We pre film our messages and we adapt them and make them specific for YouTube. You know, we do that versus like a live stream type of thing. As Kerry New study said. This said the challenge is the future is to diversify what you offer online and distinguish it from what you offer in person. So not only is that going to create true options, New Life continues on to say, but it will deepen engagement as your in-person and online ministries lean towards what each does best.

00:08:27:07 - 00:08:44:25
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
And then, beyond. Just like your message content, beyond your weekly sermon, so to speak, that are also going to live online, whether that's live stream, which I would argue is not as good as a pre filmed version, but it's still better than than nothing. You can also lean into things like courses and those types of things.

00:08:44:28 - 00:09:04:11
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
And then the final piece is this is like as I say, all this and there's, you know, maybe a minute ago you gave me that sub because you were like, dude, there's just too much to do. And even with some custom coaching, there's still going to be a lot on your plate. You're 100% right. There is. There's still a lot of work to do, which is what I want to offer to, to some of you might be worth it.

00:09:04:13 - 00:09:26:23
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
Budget wise, communications done for you. It's a service that I offer. And I will run your website. Or I will do graphics and video, or I will run your YouTube and social media. Each of those different buckets and categories is a different price point. Or you can bundle them all together for, a different price point link down below to inquire about that.

00:09:26:25 - 00:09:31:25
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
But let me just tell you that it is a 10th of the cost of a

00:09:31:25 - 00:09:39:18
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
full time staff person. If you were to hire me and contract me to do communications for you and for your church and for your ministry,

00:09:39:18 - 00:09:47:05
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
because there's so much on your plate and you just you, you want it, but you don't have the time or bandwidth or desire maybe even to learn it.

00:09:47:05 - 00:10:02:26
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
And I understand that. And at some point it's just worth it, you know, to just get it off of your plate. And if that you're in that zone and you don't want the coaching, you don't want to learn via the e-book, then great. Then check out what I have to offer communications for you. I will do things like inspect your website.

00:10:02:26 - 00:10:09:03
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
I will optimize your search engine optimization. I will make your website as visitor friendly as possible.

00:10:09:03 - 00:10:09:13
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
If you

00:10:09:13 - 00:10:42:24
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
want to go in the graphics route, I can do graphic design for you. I can do series and events and pre screen and print graphics and all those types of things. Get those pesky jobs off of your plate. And if you want to optimize your church's social media, live stream or YouTube profile messages, we can, do thumbnails, we can title the video, we can optimize the tags for search engine optimization and create chapters so that people can jump around in your videos, create playlists and online courses, and also create post shorts for your social

00:10:42:24 - 00:11:04:07
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
media. Whatever works best and whatever you want done for you. All of it is linked down below in the description or in the show notes. I'd love to have you check those things out, but again, I appreciate you being here and listen. It is. The future of the church is online. It's not only online, but are you? A wide portion of it is.

00:11:04:07 - 00:11:27:20
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry
And the fact is, the more capacity and bandwidth that you have to take it there, the more effective I believe you will be to maximize your reach and your influence. So continue to pursue reaching people for Jesus. Continue to pursue the call and the assignment in which God has placed you, particularly right now in this season. And don't forget, and as always, stay hybrid.

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DESCRIPTION
In this video, a Gen-Zer shares their perspective on the future of ministry, specifically focusing on the concept of hybrid ministry. Exploring how technology and traditional practices can blend to create a more inclusive and engaging worship experience, this insightful discussion provides a fresh take on how ministries can adapt to meet the needs of the digital age. If you're curious about how the younger generation views the evolution of ministry, this video is a must-watch!

======================================
📓SHOWNOTES
//SHOWNOTES & TRANSCRIPTS
http://www.hybridministry.xyz/107

//STOP POSTING ANNOUNCEMENTS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slB0Rmf_X0c&t=20s

[THE PARKVIEW ONE]
//HOW IT ALL STARTED
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0L-Dxhs7cI&t=232s

👉 STAY CONNECTED WITH NICK
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@clasonnick
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TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@clasonnick
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HybridMinistry
Website: https://www.hybridministry.xyz

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🆓 FREEBIES 🆓
📅 "The Full Hybrid Ministry Strategy"
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🛠️TOOLS
Some of the below links are affilate links in which we do recieve a small commission based on your purchase or use of products
VIDIQ
https://vidiq.com/hybrid

BEST DYM RESOURCES
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AUTO POD
https://autopod.lemonsqueezy.com?aff=MX7Vv

TRY REV.COM FOR TRANSCRIBING
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--------------
🕰️TIMECODES
00:00 A Gen Zer's Take on Hybrid Ministry
01:30 What was your first impression of Hybrid Ministry?
03:01 Did it ever feel like we were trying too hard?
03:52 What has been your relationship with digital?
06:04 What did you think of all this hybrid?
07:08 After all this: Summarize your opinion
09:50 How Digital enhances in-person
12:56 What are the challenges of a Hybrid Space?
14:38 Does Editing Really Matter?
18:54 The Most Surprising Thing from the last year
20:42 The Final Word
--------------
✍️TRANSCRIPT

00;00;00;00 - 00;00;23;54
Nick Clason
Hey, what is up, everybody? Welcome to the Hybrid Ministry show. This is a fun, actually interview episode. So for those of you who have been watching following along over the last year or so, I've mentioned my resident, his name is Caleb. now a nickname. Call him flywheel. because he was in his residence, group Learning project, and he needed to read, from good to great.

00;00;23;54 - 00;00;42;15
Nick Clason
And he knew to read the flywheel chapter. And so I called him flywheel. and he now calls me Thunder Dog because I'm a Oklahoma City Thunder fan. but anyway, he's been with us for a year now, and I actually, I wanted to get his take, today, we actually said goodbye to him. we had, like, a breakfast at our house with him, my family.

00;00;42;20 - 00;00;56;20
Nick Clason
and so he's heading back home, but I want to get his take on what it was like, to work in a hybrid ministry environment. Like, you know, as a resident, you really get a lot of choices on that. And so, since he didn't get a lot of choices, I want to be like, hey, what do you think?

00;00;56;32 - 00;01;16;03
Nick Clason
What are you going to keep? What are you going to get go away from? and so I'm excited to have you kind of sit in on this interview, just conversation informal, him and I and just kind of his experience in this sort of hybrid space. So. Hope you enjoy. if this is helpful to you or anyone else that you might think, give it a like, give it a share.

00;01;16;18 - 00;01;21;23
Nick Clason
give it a subscribe. All those things are incredibly helpful to us. So without any further ado, the exclusive

00;01;21;23 - 00;01;24;25
Nick Clason
one and only Flywheel Caleb Maeda interview.

00;01;26;03 - 00;01;48;33
Nick Clason
Well, I'm here with Flywheel Maeda.

Caleb Maeda
Hey.

so I don't know, like, I don't know. You came into my world, and I told you that hybrid ministry, digital ministry, all that stuff mattered. so. So take us back.

00;01;48;35 - 00;01;53;40
Nick Clason
Take me back to when you, like, started with me at, like back in Chicago. Yeah. Well,

00;01;53;40 - 00;01;57;55
Caleb Maeda
yeah. So back in Chicago is like my first church job. Like in general.

00;01;58;50 - 00;02;11;09
Caleb Maeda
so I wasn't really sure how anything worked. So I think that really started, like, my mind set on, like, hybrid ministry because, like, I didn't have any previous, like, things I was holding on to, like, I had. youth group that I grew up in, but it was pretty different. And also coming out of like the pandemic. yeah. Like it like made sense. And then when I saw it working and like I saw because like the model that you guys used with like the connect groups that like, met in the homes and then watched it and like, interact with it. I thought that was like super cool. And so then also getting to like work on that show and like helped produce a little bit and like run some of this stuff like I like immediately saw the value and also like, like just being a younger person. Like I grew up watching YouTube like like the people that I like, loved growing up or like YouTubers and so like the value of that platform with this generation. I think I also kind of related to and so like from the get go, I was kind of brought in, I was like, yeah, this is legit, I agree. I mean.

00;02;58;06 - 00;03;03;59
Nick Clason
Did you ever, did you ever feel like, oh, these guys are trying to be YouTubers and they're old?

00;03;08;22 - 00;03;23;42
Caleb Maeda
No, because I think at the time it was honestly like the stuff that I was working on at Parkview is like the search for Chuck the duck that summer. And so, like, it was not stupid enough, but it was it was stupid enough that it was like these guys, like, they're clearly not doing this for clout. Like, I don't know any 30 year old man who's like, you know, it'd be really cool searching for a fake rubber duck for an entire summer, you know? And so I never I never got that kind of vibe just because of the nature of what we were doing.

00;03;35;15 - 00;03;42;54
Nick Clason
Yeah. Okay, so then you, after your time with us in Chicago, you go and you work at your home church for a little bit, right? And just interning? Yeah, mostly in the arena of worship.

00;03;50;12 - 00;04;05;10
Caleb Maeda
No, I was is youth for the first school year, and then it was worship the second school year. What was their relationship with digital social media hybrid? I mean, so they're they're your typical like evangelical covenant, like multi-site church. So they're like they're with it, but they're not sure

00;04;05;19 - 00;04;24;37
Nick Clason
I wonder how many evangelical covenant multi-site churches or like you say, typical.

00;04;24;12 - 00;04;38;10
Caleb Maeda
I actually don't know. It's a thing in Minnesota, I guess, from where I grew up. But, so they do have a value of social media, but they're not quite as consistent like they don't have, I don't think. And granted, when I was there, their social media platform was we didn't have students over Christmas break. So like, let's make something fun. And like that was it other than like announcements for events and stuff. Yeah. And now these days it's a little bit more like, you know, the trends where like, you see a guy, like, fall off a stretcher and then it's someone rolling and say, like, you should get to like, you know, those classes.

00;04;38;13 - 00;04;54;21
Nick Clason
I think you need only do some of this.

00;04;38;13 - 00;04;54;21
Caleb Maeda
I saw one the other day. We should do. but so like, they've started doing some more of that stuff in the past year or so. And so I think it's, it's done an uptick, but it's not as fleshed out as, like what we're doing here of like two posts a day, you know, that kind of, yeah.

00;04;54;26 - 00;05;18;11
Caleb Maeda
And they don't like a good day. Yeah. And they don't they don't do, like, fun content, like drafts or like things like that. The students other than, like pictures for, like recaps of events and stuff, they're not super on the pages. It's mostly like announcement based stuff. Yeah, yeah. Which like is a is a pretty like standard operating procedure for like churches and social media.

00;05;18;12 - 00;05;24;09
Nick Clason
Yeah. have a whole video linked right here about, you should also be posting announcements.

00;05;24;09 - 00;05;33;40
Caleb Maeda
You Should link to Parkview one to like, I only saw one at a time.

00;05;24;09 - 00;05;33;40
Nick Clason
I can only do one. We have it. We did it. We did.

00;05;33;40 - 00;05;36;36
Caleb Maeda
Really? Yeah. I didn't know that.

00;05;33;40 - 00;05;36;36
Nick Clason
I know you didn't. That's why you link to, like, three times in your last teaching video.

00;05;36;40 - 00;05;51;29
Nick Clason
Don't worry about this link to it here. This link I thought you could. You get one. You get one card per video. There you go. I didn't know that YouTube. I didn't know that one. I'm getting exposed right now. I thought I'd never mind. It's like we can talk about that later, but, Okay, so then

00;05;51;29 - 00;05;55;43
Nick Clason
then you come here and we are.

00;05;55;47 - 00;05;57;55
Nick Clason
What we're doing is very different.

00;05;57;55 - 00;06;09;14
Nick Clason
the Parkview one, by the way. I'll link it down in the description. You can watch it. It's like the 100th episode. 100th episode. How it all started. It's pretty pog. Yeah, I think it was a good one. It was a good one. but anyway,

00;06;09;14 - 00;06;12;23
Nick Clason
you come down here and it's different.

00;06;12;28 - 00;06;26;51
Nick Clason
Put it, put aside your people pleasing nature. Like, just give me the raw, unfiltered, like, what do you think?

00;06;26;51 - 00;06;48;29
Caleb Maeda
I mean, again, like, I, I agreed with what we were doing because I think of my experience at Parkview. I think for me, once we started doing or like trying to make students on the page more of a priority, that was kind of the shift that I was more on board with just because like, yeah, like the the one I struggled with the most were those like the no, it or not dancing TikToks that we did, I freaking I like I'm not a dancer, so I hated them, but like, I hated them cause I

00;06;48;29 - 00;07;14;43
Nick Clason
was not a dancer. Not for like strategy reasons. but once we started getting students on the page, I think that was where I started feeling like, yeah, we're doing something that, like, is cool. so yeah, yeah, that was kind of my first. So, you are heading, like off on your own at some point. At some point we don't know what's next.

00;07;14;48 - 00;07;37;26
Nick Clason
Yeah. But like, what are your thoughts on, like. All right, I'm about to be my own youth pastor, and I just did a, summer internship and then a full year long residency, with, church and youth pastors who are fully bought into, like, digital, like. Yeah. First of all, summarize your opinion

00;07;37;26 - 00;07;40;47
Nick Clason
like, you just you gave a lot of different like examples of like summarize like, yeah.

00;07;40;51 - 00;07;44;10
Nick Clason
Do you think it's like worth it valuable.

00;07;44;10 - 00;07;50;41
Nick Clason
And then like how would you yeah. How would you tell people like here's how it's working on

00;07;50;41 - 00;07;57;25
Nick Clason
like the inside of it because like, you know, if anyone follows me or listen to my stuff like they hear me reference it, talk about what we do.

00;07;57;25 - 00;08;00;45
Nick Clason
But like, you got to see, like, firsthand and like, just be honest.

00;08;00;45 - 00;08;05;52
Nick Clason
Like, are you like, I don't know, I don't know if it's working or not. Yeah. I mean, I think, I think the

00;08;05;52 - 00;08;25;31
Caleb Maeda
things that have been working the most has been getting students involved on the page, not even in terms of like on the page traction as much as like in person traction, because I think I think like with the social challenge that we did with the Hot Wings thing that we did like, it was a lot of kids saying like, hey, how can I be on screen?

00;08;25;41 - 00;08;38;03
Caleb Maeda
You know, this is what it was. It was how can I what can I do? Yeah. And like, well, that shouldn't be your only motivation to like, do these things. I think it lended itself great to increasing like the desire to like, serve

00;08;38;03 - 00;08;56;03
Caleb Maeda
or like well and like there, like you said, like what's normal to them. Yeah. Like and the option to like be on social media or be on YouTube is like a little bit, well, because like, I remember growing up and like seeing all my favorite YouTubers and thinking like, man, I wish I could do that, but I don't know how to do this.

00;08;56;03 - 00;09;24;01
Caleb Maeda
I don't know how to do this. And so I think it's a really great way for students to even live that little piece of them who, like, they don't know how to set up a studio. They don't know what lights are. Yeah, I don't know what that is. that's Jake. Yeah it is. Jake. Shout out to Jake I love you, but, like they it's it's an experience for them to get to like, live that out a little bit and then also do it in like a safe context where like, it's like, I don't know, it's safe for the family content.

00;09;24;01 - 00;09;39;47
Caleb Maeda
Like I think also just like the opportunity, the whole family. Yeah. It is like the opportunity to just like replace one video, I think in a kids feed is like a win in my opinion, because of just like the nature of social media, you know, like we can get into the whole of like comparing our lives and stuff.

00;09;39;49 - 00;09;48;01
Caleb Maeda
Yeah. Or like we can watch stupid people draft like, pizza toppings and pick Palios number one. Yeah. You know, was the decision ever I agree,

00;09;48;01 - 00;10;03;43
Nick Clason
okay. So off you go. Yeah. What's your what's your well what's your like as of today. Date of recording all that stuff like. Yeah. What do you think your future relationship with like digital and hybrid is going to I obviously yeah.

00;10;03;45 - 00;10;23;16
Nick Clason
You you don't know where you're headed like I guess pie in the sky. Like what would be the hope. The hope would be to recreate this just in the north? yeah. Like I said, like, I, I think that what we're doing is working. I think, again, like, I don't think it's as much about the followers on the page.

00;10;23;16 - 00;10;44;22
Nick Clason
It's more about what we're seeing in the room, you know, like, even like just seeing some of the kids drafting against each other and like, the relationships that are getting built, like, even within that, like you're getting pairs of, like two students who, like, wouldn't typically talk to each other and now they're being forced to like, draft something and like, communicate and like that can make them walk away with some form of connection.

00;10;44;27 - 00;11;09;27
Caleb Maeda
And so I think those are the things that I like about what we're doing. and so I would definitely want to, to create something like that. That's like students on the page driven. Yeah. where it's all about like it's a tool to use that to build community at our, at our group. Yeah. I mean, I think like the way that I've laid out because like, what you're talking about, even two is like, your strategy is like coming at it from like a different even angle.

00;11;09;27 - 00;11;37;57
Nick Clason
Yeah. So like my strategy is like, do fun and silly and stupid content to like, just get on people's feeds and get their attention. Yeah. Maybe you guys have a follow, maybe like start showing up more and more in their algorithm. Yeah. Then sprinkle in teaching content things that like are meaningful and spiritual and whatever, but then have that push them then further down the funnel to like our long form video on YouTube, which then always has like a next step.

Caleb Maeda00;11;55;49
Nick Clason
Yeah. Well and then like also being able to use the YouTube kind of like we did literally like on Sunday where we took the QR code to the baptism series and like that's how we're pushing kids to baptism now as they can go through that class. Like I think having that as also like a resource page on top of the other benefits has been really cool.

00;11;55;54 - 00;12;32;18
Nick Clason
Yeah. But it's like, I guess what's interesting is like how you're saying, like, you see the value of digital and how it plays in the room even, you know, and like, yeah, that's a different benefit than I often even talk about. Yeah. On here. Right. Like I'm always just saying like online to like walk down the funnel, but like you're saying like even if that doesn't happen, like our current pool of students that exist, like we see them interacting and engaging with us because like, yeah, I think a lot of times digital is a process for like how to reach outsiders.

00;12;32;23 - 00;12;53;42
Caleb Maeda
And you're seeing it as like, yeah, but also it can yeah, increase the experience for insiders. Yeah for sure. And like also like I mean it's also a great like invite way because you can be like, hey, the friend from school that doesn't typically go to church. When I come to church to try to be in a YouTube video, like that's also like a it's like it's multifaceted.

00;12;53;42 - 00;13;13;01
Caleb Maeda
You can use it for a lot of different things. Yeah, yeah. What are some of the or have been some of the challenges of being on the or in the hybrid culture, like what has been asked of you? That has been I think it's just like the time it takes to edit videos takes away from other things that you can do.

00;13;13;05 - 00;13;39;12
Caleb Maeda
and like, like obviously having a team like once we got, you know, the interns kind of cooking on drafts and stuff that lighten the load. But I felt like the first half of my residency, I would come to who's who's. Yeah. So undrafted. But yeah, but I feel like my first chunk of my residency was I would show up and I would edit and like, that was what I did, which like, good because now I can edit and like it's a skill that I can market in the future for non-church related products hiring.

00;13;39;21 - 00;14;02;51
Caleb Maeda
But yeah, shout out, please help me. but so I think that phone number down in the appreciate it. Yeah, yeah. 13 of our viewers I'm poor please. My Venmo is somewhere. Yeah, yeah. But, I think that that was tough for me for a little bit just because also, like, I'm just a relationally driven person. And so like the moments like even in the office that like, Drive Me are like the conversations that I'm having with people.

00;14;02;51 - 00;14;18;38
Caleb Maeda
Yeah. And so I think that was a struggle or at least an adjustment period. But also it was interesting because I went to college for music, but since it was a liberal arts school, I took a couple film classes and I like Learn Premiere in those classes already and so on. I came down here and you're like, yeah, we're going to be editing in premiere.

00;14;18;38 - 00;14;42;48
Caleb Maeda
I was like, I know ripple, delete. I can kind of do that. And so teach people. It was a little bit of like a mixed bag of like adjustment, but also familiarity at the same time. and also just kind of like reprioritizing my schedule to see, like where things fit

00;14;18;38 - 00;14;42;48
Nick Clason
does, does editing matter in your opinion?

00;14;42;53 - 00;15;07;12
Caleb Maeda
yeah, I think it does. I think. Actually, I don't I'm not sure. I think it does. I think in, in terms of, like grabbing attention, like the fastest way to make your content more appealing without adjusting your content is just in the editing. Yeah, but you can you can make a highlight reel of, like, any NBA player and make them look good.

00;15;07;12 - 00;15;39;08
00;14;18;38 - 00;14;42;48
Caleb Maeda
Same with like a YouTube video. Like if you've done rumors of Patrick Williams of Thunder, I really I was watching like a highlight video. I was like, this guy is as good as. Yeah. And so like, I think I think from like, like the, the online perspective of it and also like engagement in the room. Like I think back to when I was a student, if you showed me this like super yellow grainy video with like the white noise in the background, that's like almost as loud as this being, like, I would disengage almost immediately just because like, oh, this is an old video, I don't care.

00;15;39;12 - 00;15;54;56
Caleb Maeda
And so I think that there's that kind of like the production value does serve a purpose, but I think that I think we can get in the weeds a little bit like for our person just because like where the yeah, where the people who are like are doing the editing. So we're like, I hate that I did this and no one would even notice.

00;15;55;09 - 00;16;10;52
Nick Clason
Well, what we're talking like yesterday on stage, like the video on the, photo back to. Yeah. Like you and I could see the, like. Yeah. That the edge was a little bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. On screen. But yeah, I don't know. But nobody noticed that before I pointed it out, I don't know, I wasn't paying. Oh not right.

00;16;10;55 - 00;16;27;02
Caleb Maeda
Probably not because you didn't spend very much time on that. Yeah at all. But then like I said look you noticed that. Then there's the little thing. And like, that's just part of, I think, being an artist because like, you're never going to be perfect at your craft and like, filmmaking and editing is like an art form. Yeah.

00;16;27;06 - 00;16;43;45
Caleb Maeda
Not to get all weird about it, but like, it is. And so, I think also just like not getting caught up in that, I think is important because there is a level of production value that is valuable. But I think, you know, any time we get so caught up in the production value that we're not thinking about the content, I think that's where we're going to fall into things.

00;16;43;45 - 00;17;01;32
Caleb Maeda
So at the end of the day, we should be delivering good content to our kids because that's what we're here for. Yeah, I agree, but reach out to either of us if you need anything. Yeah, please. Haha. Well, aim for real. Like how much? And our lives changing. Yeah, that's also true dude. Also like starry I'm going to talk about stars.

00;17;01;36 - 00;17;18;05
Caleb Maeda
Shout out to starry. I freaking love this dude and I've never even talked to him. I remember I started when I was doing the Hot Wings video. I started talking to him just like before the videos, just like, hey man, houses are gone. I love you bro. Yeah. And like, like just the ideas you need to build that connection with a dude in India is really cool.

00;17;18;05 - 00;17;31;13
Caleb Maeda
Yeah. And like, you would tell me some of the things that he would say back in like, I don't know, it was just really cool to like, build that with a dude I've never actually spoken to. And the only reason that happened was because we got to a point where, like, we need someone to help us edit and we found a dude on Fiverr.

00;17;31;13 - 00;18;02;09
Nick Clason
Yeah, yeah, yeah, don't don't tell Fiverr that we don't. I mean, to them we didn't we met him through the Google. We so so yeah. interesting. there's a lot, a lot more ministry opportunities, I think, from this than I thought there would be going into it because I thought, I thought that like, like on paper, it sounds like the ministry we're doing is we're doing it for online kids to get connected to church, to hopefully eventually come and then for our kids to have, like, content.

00;18;02;09 - 00;18;23;03
Caleb Maeda
Right. But then there's like the editor who's like discovering Christianity for the first time and like asking questions and stuff. There's like the community that's being built on, like the key kids who are like trying to do the drafts, like all of that extra stuff is stuff that I didn't personally like, think about. And then when I started seeing it like those ended up being the reasons that like, drove me to keep going rather than just the content.

00;18;23;08 - 00;18;46;56
Nick Clason
So what do you what do you think it will look like for you in the future, like because, you know, keeping going, whatever. Like you're quasi being forced to because you're like working and like this is what we're telling you, like, hey, you have to do. But like, yeah, soon you're going to be your own youth pastor working somewhere or for someone or whatever.

00;18;46;56 - 00;19;08;21
Caleb Maeda
Like what? What things do you see yourself? Just like taking most of all of it, honestly, like the the short form, I think that was the other thing. When I came in, I wasn't as big on short form videos as I was the long form videos, just because when I grew up watching YouTube, YouTube was long form videos.

00;19;08;25 - 00;19;28;49
Caleb Maeda
and so taking that and I just look at our, our Instagram reels, it's like, I know, dude, it's friggin nuts. But, yeah. And so I think I'll take a lot of that stuff, especially because, like, it's pretty easy to get a lot of content, like on a Wednesday night, just like sit down with ten kids and you can get like 5 or 6, you know.

00;19;28;54 - 00;20;02;03
Caleb Maeda
And so I think that and I also I think the, the teaching videos stuff, because the there have been a couple churches that I've been looking at, and like their social media is good, but like they just clip their live preachings, which I think is awesome and great and like, that's better than nothing. But I also think that there's something about, the way that we change it for In the Room versus the, the video that I think just makes the video work a little better because we're specifically crafting that part of our message for that medium.

00;20;02;08 - 00;20;31;21
Caleb Maeda
and so I think more work, it's more work, but I think that the payoff is great because also then, like, there's not like the room awkwardness, like there's not the like, con response. And then that frees us up for in the room to do things like table talk and all of that stuff. and also like, just like having your message written down in that form for the long form videos, helps you to say things that I think sometimes, like, I will drop in the room like there's if there's a little fun tidbit that, like, just isn't going to fit in the room, but I really liked it.

00;20;31;21 - 00;20;52;40
Caleb Maeda
Like, I have to say it in the the long form YouTube video. So I think that there's also that kind of added value. But anything else I can think of, probably like, honestly, I probably won't be on the student ministry page as much as I was at the beginning of this. But like, I'm trying to figure out how what does it look like to start this?

00;20;52;40 - 00;21;16;41
Caleb Maeda
Because like I can say on paper, I want all kids to be doing all the drafts all the time. Like if the kids are involved in like, how am I that, you know. Yeah. And so and sometimes it's helpful for them to like see examples. Yeah. And so it's kind of that like that I'm going to try to figure out how to balance that line of like setting the tone but like making sure it's, it's kid first.

00;21;16;46 - 00;21;34;25
Caleb Maeda
and then also like I think finding ways to like do like not only the teaching videos, but like the baptism videos, like courses like that. I think I would also want to pull just because like, I think that that's a great resource page for them that we can pull from. For anytime a kid has questions about baptisms, you can throw them to that.

00;21;34;30 - 00;21;53;32
Nick Clason
yeah. Yeah. And like, you know, you can also expand that. Like, you could even make the workshops that we've been doing into little video series, like, I don't know if there's like a lot of stuff that you can do with playlists and like with. Yeah, having the idea of it being like a course like. Yeah. And like you and I have talked about this a lot, but I think like content for content delivery.

00;21;53;32 - 00;22;09;26
Caleb Maeda
I think YouTube is a better way than live preaching just because like and like again, you've talked about this all the time, but like, I don't know anybody whose primary like learning style is sit down and listen to a lecture for 30 minutes even. You can have the best graphics as you want, like you can have great table talks.

00;22;09;26 - 00;22;27;14
Caleb Maeda
Like I'm not going to pull as much from that as I will from like a ten minute YouTube video with like graphics and like, I don't know, there's just something about the way our brains are wired with our shorter attention spans. I think YouTube is a great medium medium for content delivery in a way that like, we're not getting as much in the room.

00;22;27;16 - 00;22;50;28
Nick Clason
Yeah, I think these days. Yeah. And I mean the again, sky's the limit. Creativity like your, your creativity or lack of creativity is you're like lid on it. So like if you have like a system like we do now where it's like you fill all your messages and everything, like you know, you can at any time play the video that, yeah, the live teaching doesn't work.

00;22;50;33 - 00;23;12;53
Nick Clason
You can play the clips or like, yeah, like we're going to be gone. We were gone for like a conference earlier this year so we could just throw the video up there. Well in like next week we're gone for camp. Yeah on a Sunday. And so your video is broken up into four parts. Yeah. Questions thrown in like so that I can literally hand it off to any volunteer pastor that's back here on staff.

00;23;12;53 - 00;23;34;58
Caleb Maeda
And they can do it pretty seamlessly. Like, yeah, like, yeah, the sky. And that's the thing, if you say learning happens better in like a medium like that, like almost makes you wonder and ask yourself like, how do I, how do I create a hybrid moment between the two? Like I live in the room and like a video.

00;23;35;02 - 00;24;08;05
Caleb Maeda
Yeah. Where like, intersects and is like used strategically for, like a students most optimal way of learning. Yeah. So yeah, I don't know, I think it's, I think it's something that like we haven't tapped into more from like tradition and anything. And I think that school is starting to go this way a little bit like you've heard of like the flipped classroom where they like get a video and then they watch the video at home, and then they do their homework in the classroom, and then they, like, talk to the teacher and work it out in the classroom.

00;24;08;05 - 00;24;38;27
Caleb Maeda
But all of the teaching is done at home through videos. Yeah. And so I think that, like, we're starting to see that shift in like the school realm. And so I think that church should be the next step. just because I think they like I've, we've been saying like, I think it's a much more effective way to deliver content to this generation, because also, like when I think about it, like I can list, you know, a couple topics from like sermons that I've listened to, but like fallout YouTube videos right now that I've been watching, like, I can pull a lot more purely from just like the amount that I can consume in a

00;24;38;27 - 00;25;00;26
Caleb Maeda
sitting. Yeah. You know, like I can consume 30 minutes. Yeah, I can consume 30 minutes of YouTube content more effectively than in the room for, you know, all of those reasons. Yeah. Yeah. So all right well that's it man POG signing out. Score Vikings. Thanks for hanging some video. I'll probably be here on the screen. Yeah. Click it watch it.

00;25;00;26 - 00;25;04;35
Nick Clason
Do the thing. See you next time. Love you stay hybrid. Yeah. Nice.

00;25;05;36 - 00;25;08;28
Nick Clason
I gotta pee. Okay,

00;25;09;49 - 00;25;13;02
Caleb Maeda
Oh.

00;25;13;24 - 00;25;18;35
Nick Clason
I can't wait to hear that. Nice.

https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/free-hybrid-ministry-e-book

======================================
DESCRIPTION
Episode 100 I decided to sit down with some friends that have all had a hand in the creation of the Full YouTube show we all had a hand in creating during the COVID-19 lockdown of 2020.

While Digital and Social Ministry were top of mind for me prior to 2020, the COVID shutdown thrust it into the forefront for me personally and I decided to dive fully into it.

When I started on the very first day of COVID, I had to get creative on how I introduced myself to students, parents and leaders without using the easy in person tools we'd all grown accustomed to using.

That being said, I'm grateful we still have access to those tools, today.

But I realized just how important Hybrid Ministry is to the next generation of teenagers.

This episode chronicles my first day, and I chat with friends who were instrumental in producing and creating the YouTube show we had crafted during those COVID days.

I hope you enjoy this 100th episode special!

======================================
📓SHOWNOTES
//SHOWNOTES & TRANSCRIPTS
http://www.hybridministry.xyz/100

👉 STAY CONNECTED WITH NICK
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@clasonnick
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hybridministry/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@clasonnick
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HybridMinistry
Website: https://www.hybridministry.xyz

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🛠️TOOLS
Some of the below links are affilate links in which we do recieve a small commission based on your purchase or use of products
VIDIQ
https://vidiq.com/hybrid

BEST DYM RESOURCES
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--------------
🕰️TIMECODES
00:00 Intro
00:50 Hybrid Ministry During COVID
03:25 Two Weeks to Flatten the Curve
07:01 The Most Fun Memories of Unscripted
09:27 What this means going forward for churches in 2024 and beyond

--------------
✍️TRANSCRIPT
00:00:00:00 - 00:00:02:01
Isaac Sutton
all of the students in the room,
who were watching unscripted,
had bingo
cards
that coordinated to stuff that
was.

Nick Clason
Yes.

00:00:08:19 - 00:00:09:23
Darren Sutton
digital integration is not a luxury. It's a necessity.

00:00:12:09 - 00:00:18:24
Sam Vos
it was probably I probably felt God's hand more in like my career, my life in that moment than a lot of other moments.

00:00:18:24 - 00:00:25:04
Nick Clason
unscripted played a really major role in like the catalyst to especially my podcast and everything like that.

00:00:25:04 - 00:00:31:04
Nick Clason
I would say the reason for that is simply realizing and understanding that students live online.

00:00:31:04 - 00:00:39:22
Darren Sutton
there's a lot I've messed up in my years of youth ministry, but that is one thing that I'm really proud of. Like in the middle of the pandemic, there was not a blank ministry kept going.

00:00:39:22 - 00:00:41:06
Sam Vos
we're going to try something different

00:00:50:00 - 00:00:55:02
ABC News
president's words come after the World Health Organization today declared the coronavirus a global pandemic,

00:00:55:02 - 00:00:57:19
Darren Sutton
I remember this very clearly.

00:00:57:19 - 00:01:01:24
Sam Vos
I mean, obviously, I came down to Parkview in February of 2020

00:01:01:24 - 00:01:06:06
Darren Sutton
the Thursday before we went home, we're like, yeah, there's something happening in the world that's not going to affect us. On Friday it became clear that

00:01:07:24 - 00:01:10:05
Nick Clason
which for context I started on Monday.

00:01:10:05 - 00:01:13:06
Darren Sutton
that maybe we'd miss a couple of weeks of meeting together. Yeah. And I have been toying around for a while with, like, a YouTube show. like, in my mind, that there was like, we were just not speaking a digital language at all.

00:01:24:06 - 00:01:25:12
Sam Vos
going there, Darren had a very kind of a new perspective on what he thought ministry would be. Right. So he was already kind of starting to talk about like, how do we take digital and kind of infuse that with what, you know, historically, youth ministry has been.

00:01:38:21 - 00:01:41:22
Darren Sutton
you know, in the grand scheme of the engine of ministry, there is no time to dream a dream,
right?
Well, Covid forced us to do that.
I kind of laid out this idea for, basically a variety show, some kind of YouTuber And I said, you know, if we decided to do this, I think we probably need to do a week or two and a big a beta test.
So could we, could we film a show? Yeah, right.
And over the weekend we came up with a whole concept for the for the YouTube show and shot it on Monday.

00:02:04:22 - 00:02:07:23
Sam Vos
Well, I'd only been there for like 3 or 4 weeks, right. Yeah.
Which I'm fine with. So then obviously it
happens. You'd only been there 3 to 4 hours is kind of like, hey, we need somebody to be the guy. And obviously I was like.
the same day we started filming was the same day that they were like, "hey, everybody's got to go home" and

00:02:20:04 - 00:02:31:04
Isaac Sutton
everybody was packed in tightly into a room and they had a like,

Nick Clason
as we're in this like, hey, don't go by people time, like and then cram all these people into a room.

00:02:31:04 - 00:02:33:11
Nick Clason
remember, like, everyone was like on vacation?

00:02:33:11 - 00:02:34:10
Nick Clason
getting married.

00:02:34:13 - 00:02:35:20
Nick Clason
had was took PTO

00:02:35:20 - 00:02:37:06
Nick Clason
I was the new guy.

00:02:37:06 - 00:02:40:02
Nick Clason
Right. You were like the longest tenured person in the room.

00:02:40:02 - 00:02:46:15
Sam Vos
it was probably I probably felt God's hand more in like my career, my life in that moment than a lot of other moments.

00:02:46:15 - 00:02:47:07
Darren Sutton
And that was your first day in the office? Yep. We all came and I was like, hey, Nick, no time to onboard you. We're filming the show

00:02:52:21 - 00:03:00:20
Sam Vos
then on our first day of filming this digital piece of it where there was, worship element in kind of this hosting element and stuff like that, filmed the first episode of unscripted at the church.

00:03:03:12 - 00:03:05:24
Nick Clason
not socially distanced whatsoever

00:03:05:24 - 00:03:07:06
Isaac Sutton
was a choice.

00:03:07:06 - 00:03:09:19
Darren Sutton
and the whole student ministry team got in there. We filmed the show, and at 11:30, we got a message from the, executive pastor saying, bye, everybody. We'll see. You

00:03:18:21 - 00:03:22:20
Sam Vos
that was this the same day we started filming was the same day that they were like, hey, everybody's got to go home and just for two weeks

00:03:25:14 - 00:03:27:21
Darren Sutton
Everybody thought at that point, probably till Easter,

00:03:27:21 - 00:03:35:03
Isaac Sutton
but nobody really knew how crazy it was going to get. Everybody was just in the. It was the rumor phase of Covid.

00:03:35:03 - 00:03:40:08
Nick Clason
but making fun of it. Basically.

Darren Sutton
Yeah. For sure. Like, this is so stupid and and so much so that like, things were changing so quickly that we filmed that thing not socially distant. On Monday by the time it aired on Wednesday, we had to put out a statement that said "this was filmed before socially distancing was a requirement."

00:03:56:03 - 00:03:56:19
Sam Vos
You know, time goes by. Maybe 3 or 4 days. Three people show up to my house with equipment being like cameras, microphones, a table, chairs, Now all this planning vision is starting to happen. Like, we're doing this right now on a zoom call

00:04:10:10 - 00:04:15:14
Darren Sutton
how much we had to pivot in that time is I still just a little bit crazy when I think about it?

00:04:15:14 - 00:04:17:24
Sam Vos
and then my wife and I looked at each other and we go, we don't have we don't have room in this spot.
Right? Because we're live in downtown Chicago in a high rise,

00:04:22:04 - 00:04:25:13
Darren Sutton
700 square foot apartment with his kid and his wife.

00:04:25:13 - 00:04:27:19
Sam Vos
every single week. When we would film, we would have to move the couch out, move that, move the chairs out. Right. We'd have to bring everything kind of stacking on top of each other by the kitchen, do the set, do the show,

00:04:36:09 - 00:04:46:18
Darren Sutton
you know, we were filming group stuff on zoom calls and trying to figure out where is the most appropriate place to set up a studio where only one person can press play.

00:04:46:18 - 00:04:46:23
Sam Vos
And, then put it all back together and send it. So then I'm running over to the camera, right. I'm getting out. I'm looking at the screen. Right. Because I turn the screen around, I'm looking at it. I'm like, okay, it looks good. And I'm running back to the camera, clicking record that I'm running back to the chair and starting.

00:04:59:06 - 00:05:10:00
Isaac Sutton
heart of Covid era for unscripted, which I didn't even like, start working. Working on unscripted until episode like 22. Yeah, something like that. I was kind of, later after some of the kinks had been fleshed out, I guess.

00:05:14:00 - 00:05:23:04
Nick Clason
yes, it went through the completely remote, like everyone from their houses, every bit via a, like cell phone camera. But I remember, Darren sent us all, like, desktop tripods so that we could like via Amazon so that we could have stable, you know, pictures and not like this

00:05:35:08 - 00:05:38:12
Sam Vos
I mean, the hashtag, the world's greatest drink kind of happened out of nowhere, What happened was I was also like, I'm just going to have to just pull everything out that I can think of and hopefully something sticks. It's kind of like when you're just, like throwing everything you can at something. You're like, one of these things works great,

00:05:51:12 - 00:05:57:05
Darren Sutton
So students were tuning in because that was the only connection with humans. They had

00:05:57:05 - 00:05:59:15
Nick Clason
which I think was like the only live anything.

00:05:59:15 - 00:06:05:06
Darren Sutton
Yes. Was gone. Like, yeah, everything was gone. Everything was gone. But we were still having church and we were one of the few. And I will tell you, like, there's a lot I've messed up in my years of youth ministry, but that is one thing that I'm really proud of. Like in the middle of the pandemic, there was not a blank ministry kept going. And that wasn't just me. That was a large team that made that happen. I could have never done that by myself.

00:06:20:19 - 00:06:21:10
Nick Clason
Yeah.

00:06:21:10 - 00:06:26:11
Isaac Sutton
And I remember that being a big part of me joining unscripted was like, we want to we're making this the thing. It went from being the Covid strategy to being, the way they were going to move forward with youth ministry.

00:06:37:03 - 00:06:41:10
Sam Vos
Now I will say in, during Covid and when I was filming at my house, right, there were some there were some moments there too, where I was like, oh, this, this feels like God's doing something. Covid and unscripted allowed us to say, hey, what? Maybe this is what church youth ministry could look like. Maybe it's it could be more progressive thinking. Yeah, sure, sure. I think it also be

00:07:00:16 - 00:07:03:12
Darren Sutton
what I remember most was just innovative thinking,

00:07:03:12 - 00:07:06:01
Sam Vos
I think there needs I think churches need to make a shift. And I felt like unscripted was a vision of what that shift could look like.

00:07:09:19 - 00:07:27:03
Darren Sutton
then it was so successful and also super a lot of fun. And also it became very clear that we had not been speaking the language of our constituency, that it became something that we permanently added to what we do

00:07:27:03 - 00:07:28:12
Isaac Sutton
was a really cool thing to do. It was something that got into people's houses. it was something that engaged students with, students on a level that they were already familiar with. I mean, students know about YouTube, YouTube shows.

00:07:41:02 - 00:07:42:10
Sam Vos
Lacroix is all I got. So I guess hashtag world's greatest drink. I don't even really like Lacroix.

00:07:47:12 - 00:07:51:03
Sam Vos
my favorite drink, Lacroix. I am one of those guys. So, it's just so it's so refreshing every time.

00:07:54:23 - 00:07:59:19
Darren Sutton
But then we started like building that into the nomenclature of what we did. And

00:08:00:07 - 00:08:03:12
Sam Vos
world's greatest people, but this is actually hashtag the world's greatest drink.

00:08:04:00 - 00:08:10:15
Darren Sutton
every semester, we would do a hashtag world's greatest drink bracket, and kids would get to vote on what that season's drink we're going to be like.

00:08:11:01 - 00:08:15:17
Nick Clason
Where when we hit the duck squeak, they had to play duck, duck, goose to it.

00:08:15:17 - 00:08:16:24
Sam Vos
hashtag world's Greatest drink. And then all sudden we would start hiding Lacroix in spots and stuff like that.

00:08:20:17 - 00:08:24:04
Darren Sutton
did an episode on pets, which is why I'm wearing this shirt. and I loved it because kids were so engaged with sending in pictures of their pets, we couldn't be in person yet.

00:08:30:13 - 00:08:33:23
Sam Vos
I think another very absurd thing that we did was that whole duck thing.

00:08:34:24 - 00:08:37:10
Nick Clason
the search for Chuck, the search for Chuck.

00:08:37:10 - 00:08:44:23
Darren Sutton
Chuck, is he in there? He's not here.

00:08:44:23 - 00:08:49:02
Darren Sutton
have a mascot also something that came accidentally. Chuck the duck,

00:08:49:02 - 00:08:53:19
Isaac Sutton
sci fi saga was was a blast. I know that was going so fun. So, Minecraft server was a tragic affair. I spent probably like so long. It's trying to set up a minecraft server for

00:09:09:03 - 00:09:16:15
Darren Sutton
So Chuck got lost or kidnaped or. I don't even remember now what the exact story was, except we just spent all summer looking for him, right?

00:09:16:15 - 00:09:25:22
Isaac Sutton
We if you found the duck and text it into a certain number in a certain amount of time, you would win a prize that coordinated to a theme, because each week was themed

00:09:28:00 - 00:09:40:10
Sam Vos
all sudden Covid happened and it kind of felt like, okay, this is the reason that I'm supposed to be here. so for me, it was a very fulfilling time. Covid was, I would say, where I think for a lot of people it was not that. However, when we got students in there filming and students in there doing audio, I think when these students all sudden like kind of took, you know, they grabbed on to this idea of unscripted and they felt like they owned it and belonged to it. That's the thing that was actually worth everything that we did.

00:09:57:16 - 00:10:02:05
Isaac Sutton
yes, there was a lot of trial and error with unscripted, especially in, in, in all areas of unscripted. There was tons of trial and error. Right. I don't think we ever fully came out of unscripted with like this was the best format and we kept it the whole way through.

00:10:15:07 - 00:10:28:15
Darren Sutton
you know, the interesting thing, which I don't think is actually that interesting, but really kind of blew people away, was how much more open kids were on zoom than they were in person. Yeah, because they're in their room. They're in their natural environment. They may or may not have to be on camera. but there was not the intimidation factor of sitting in a room and wondering what you're thinking about me. There was some kind of invisible protection for them being on camera, which worked pretty well.

00:10:44:07 - 00:11:00:15
Nick Clason
But as we look ahead to this next wave of generation, like we have to find a way to find ourselves online with with Gen Z, definitely with Gen Alpha, like, it's all they know, right? And they, they can shift between in-person and online into that hybrid space back and forth as if it's nothing.

00:11:00:15 - 00:11:06:17
Isaac Sutton
the ones that we filmed in a bunch of different locations, yeah, that was that. They were great. They were so well done. And it was a series over the course of four weeks about the impacts you can make on the world. Yeah.

00:11:21:00
Nick Clason
and we were like on location and like, that was that was so fun. I thought

00:11:23:06 - 00:11:25:06
Darren Sutton
in that I would end up carrying into the future was pre filming talks. And, you know, even when we ended up in a context where that wasn't necessary anymore, it really helps you frame exactly what you want to say the way you want to say it, in a medium that's going to live in perpetuity beyond you.

00:11:45:08 - 00:12:09:10
Isaac Sutton
Yeah. I think the other benefit to this is that whole part of it. Right. was that it democratize like the week, the day that you come from as well like that I was able to serve, like I was able to work as the guy who produced unscripted and made sure everything was running on Wednesdays. And then I could still also volunteer on Thursdays as a small group leader.

00:12:15:06 - 00:12:39:04
Nick Clason
after three years or however many years of us doing it, once restrictions started lifting, once people started coming back in the room and frankly wanting to be back in the room like we needed to find a way to to pivot and adjust. And I still think we did. But again, like I was telling you before we started hitting record was we we started at that point then with the baseline of online. And so then we were like, how much do we sprinkle in in person because of how good online is? We're like a church. Where I'm at now is like, we started with in person. And so now we have to try to like add the hybrid moment, the digital pieces to it to help create that good. Like intersection between both in-person and online.

00:12:58:10 - 00:13:10:14
Sam Vos
relationships start in person and then they can transition to digital. Meaning you live in the same state as me or friends and then you move away. But we still continue being friends,

00:13:10:14 - 00:13:23:02
Isaac Sutton
even if, your hybrid experience doesn't, kick off in the room like you want to, it might reach 1 or 2 people that wouldn't, that you wouldn't have reached otherwise.

00:13:23:02 - 00:13:30:24
Nick Clason
Yeah. And like, now my like, the adaptation, like, we have a fully in-person model, essentially. Right. Yeah. However, I still see the value in the content, the teaching content in particular, like having a home beyond just when it when it's preached. Right. And we don't have the live streaming capabilities, which is why we do the, the pre film. But that can also that, that that anchors our social media strategy.

00:13:52:17 - 00:13:57:02
Darren Sutton
we learned that social media is for interaction, not for advertising. I think that we learned that, digital, what we call in our context, digital integration is not a luxury. It's a necessity. You have to figure it out. Our students are not just digital natives, they're digital dependents. And if we are not harnessed in whatever level of digital medium we can harness, then we're missing. We're missing an opportunity to speak the language of the people that we're working with. so I don't view everything through the lens of how does this translate digitally, but I definitely view our ministry through the lens of where is the digital expression of what we're trying to communicate to, to kids long term. Yeah. So,

00:14:44:10 - 00:14:50:05
Nick Clason
the argument I felt at the time was should we do in-person or should we do online? And I was like, how about both right. And the tension in all of that is both takes resources.

00:15:02:01 - 00:15:17:15
Nick Clason
my learnings right. For the in the room side of things was like it probably needed the show, probably needed a refresh and a rebrand to, distance it from Covid and not make it the Covid thing anymore. because while it was still good, it's still carried all those connotations. And then on the, the YouTube side of things, we just needed to double down on some like titling keyword and research like artistic thumbnail renders

00:15:31:09 - 00:15:32:21
Sam Vos
means that churches exist

00:15:32:21 - 00:15:37:14
Sam Vos
for two groups of people, correct?

00:15:37:14 - 00:15:38:16
Nick Clason
Insiders and outsiders. There we go.

00:15:37:14 - 00:15:38:16
Sam Vos
I wonder if those those things being digital and in-person. Interact with those two groups differently.

00:15:45:18 - 00:16:05:22
Nick Clason
like, it's more accessible than I thought it was to create a digital like moment, like, you know, once we shifted away from the show into a new church and we were here, like, we did an entire, like, six months worth of content off of a cell phone.

00:16:05:24 - 00:16:07:11
Darren Sutton
Yeah, yeah,

00:16:07:11 - 00:16:12:04
Nick Clason
The church exists to change the world. and to be a family and to create a place for people to find meaning and belonging. Okay. I think that there can be entertaining elements within church. I encourage youth pastors and youth ministries to create entertaining elements on their social media. That's why most people get on social media nowadays is to be entertained in some form or fashion.

00:16:32:18 - 00:16:35:20
Darren Sutton
So some kind of message or whatever on the regular? I think it's super important to post regularly, whether you know how to do it or not, you play dumb for a student because there is a student who definitely knows how to do it. investing in that. And I wouldn't know what these are. But this guy well investing in some subscription services or whatnot that can help you do this easier.

00:16:58:13 - 00:17:10:14
Nick Clason
servicing millennials, Gen Z and Gen Alpha, by the way, middle schoolers and on down. And so the church has to figure out how to speak their language because they're the next generation.

00:17:10:14 - 00:17:13:18
Darren Sutton
I subscribe to your TikTok and your YouTube. He didn't pay me for that. I really would, and I am, so you should be too.

https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/free-hybrid-ministry-e-book

======================================
DESCRIPTION
🏅Travel Sports and Youth Group. They have been the bain of youth pastor’s existence for years.
🗓️What if they don’t have to be the enemy?
🥱What about Youth Group Kids who exhibit complacency?
======================================
📓SHOWNOTES
//SHOWNOTES & TRANSCRIPTS
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YOUR MESSAGES ARE BORING
//https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqOPjD5hN-g&t=8s

STOP IGNORING SOCIAL MEDIA
//https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slB0Rmf_X0c&t=390s

👉 STAY CONNECTED WITH NICK
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😨 "Have I already Ruined my TikTok Account?"
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🛠️TOOLS
Some of the below links are affilate links in which we do recieve a small commission based on your purchase or use of products

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https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/dym

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TRY REV.COM FOR TRANSCRIBING
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--------------
🕰️TIMECODES
00:00 The Two Biggest Enemies to your Youth Ministry
01:46 Extra Curriculuars are Killing my Attendance
05:15 Complancey is also killing my youth group
08:04 The Suprising Solution to Youth Sports and Complacency in your Youth Group

TRANSCRIPT
00;00;00;00 - 00;00;32;17
Nick Clason
The two biggest enemies in youth ministry are extracurricular activities and the complacent attitude of your students. Tell me if you've heard this before. Tuesday night is karate so that kid can't come on Tuesdays. If that's when you had youth group and then Wednesday nights is when you have show choir. Thursday night, that same kid also has karate. And of course, you can't do Friday night because that's when the football games are like if you've been in that position.

00;00;32;22 - 00;00;53;10
Nick Clason
Give me a subscribe. If you've had to navigate when you meet for youth night and turn the bell on for good measure because we're starting a brand new playlist exploring all the different issues of youth ministry, and one of them is scheduling. Like how do you schedule around students and their extracurricular activities? What in the world should we meet?

00;00;53;15 - 00;01;17;43
Nick Clason
They're so busy and it almost makes it feel like extracurricular travel, sports, school sports are the enemy. And here’s the fact even when they do show up in the room, you might be so boring that they're not really willing to make your thing a priority. In fact, we have a video right here where we explore all of that and how you can make your youth ministry one of belonging and purpose and serving.

00;01;17;50 - 00;01;43;18
Nick Clason
But I just had a student the other day say, Hey, listen, I just got so much going on. Sometimes student ministry, it just it doesn't make the cut. And unashamedly that was a text that they sent. And so if the two biggest enemies are travel sports and complacency, I want to challenge you to stick around to the very end of this video because I have a solution for each of those two things extracurriculars and complacency.

00;01;43;33 - 00;02;11;00
Nick Clason
Welcome to the High Road Ministry show The Year was 2012 brand new youth Pastor right here. And there were literally three students in my student ministry starting out, one by the name of Brandon, who didn't last very long, one by the name of Megan and then one by the name of Sabrina and Megan and all her friends. And she brought a lot of her friends to youth group.

00;02;11;00 - 00;02;31;58
Nick Clason
So this kind of mattered because she could bring two or three or four different friends with her to youth group. They had show choir and met every single Wednesday night. And so that made Wednesday nights a really tricky night to do youth ministry. But Brandon, the only other boy in the youth ministry, had Tuesday night and Thursday night karate.

00;02;32;03 - 00;02;58;34
Nick Clason
And then of course, Friday nights are like the football game. Like for most towns USA, that's when the high school team is playing its football game. So that really left us with Monday night as an option, which for I can't remember why, but for whatever reason it really wasn't an option. And so I had no idea like what am I supposed to do in to, to make matters worse, I had three kids, so if I choose Wednesday, I lose Megan and all her friends.

00;02;58;34 - 00;03;21;41
Nick Clason
If I choose to, their Thursday, I lose Brandon over to karate. And then the group of three, that's 33% of my students. So like, when am I supposed to plan to do this? I had another student one year who missed summer camp due to a baseball tournament. And then I remember he came up to me after we got back.

00;03;21;41 - 00;03;41;49
Nick Clason
His brother went and all his friends went and so he was at the recap of camp and we shared the recap video and all the students had all their energy and and his tournament had gotten rained out while we were gone. And he came up to me and he said, Next year I'm going to camp no matter what you see.

00;03;41;49 - 00;04;08;43
Nick Clason
Here's what happens once you create some sort of an environment where a student actually wants to be a part and actually wants to belong, it can be a game changer. But the fact of the matter is, especially when you're just getting started out, what do you do when they don't even know you in their thing, their show choir, their karate, their baseball, their basketball, their football, their you fill in the blank, whatever it is.

00;04;08;48 - 00;04;31;46
Nick Clason
What happens when that thing is actually providing more of a place of belonging and more of a place of community than your church? It makes it difficult and honestly, you want to compete with it. You want it to be you want church, you want youth group to be providing more of a place of belonging, more of a place of community.

00;04;31;51 - 00;04;55;39
Nick Clason
But in the life of that student, let's be honest, it really isn't. It's not really providing a place of belonging more than their sport. And so one of the challenges is you are trying to compete with something that is like family to them and you want them to come to something that's already a probably not feeling a little bit like family to them.

00;04;55;44 - 00;05;22;28
Nick Clason
And then B is adding another thing onto their already busy plate of calendaring and activities and things that they have to be committed to doing. And so what do we do about youth sports? Listen, I got an idea. Just hang on. What do you do about complacency? Like you've been there, right, where you have kids, Church kids, non church kids, whatever the case might be.

00;05;22;28 - 00;05;41;52
Nick Clason
And they really like they don't want to be there like you. Like the archetype of student I'm thinking of is the junior in high school comes to youth group hood on air pods in back row. They're just not interested. Like you get up, you got a game, They don't care about the game. You get up, you got a cute video.

00;05;41;52 - 00;06;01;46
Nick Clason
They don't care about the cute video. You see them saying like, how do you reach that kid? And in most cases, that kid is his heart's definitely not in to youth group. And there's a lot of factors for that, one of which might be his level or feeling of belonging. And it doesn't have to just be a him.

00;06;01;46 - 00;06;25;02
Nick Clason
It could be her, right? But we're we're using a certain archetype, and so we'll just keep using that junior boy student with the AirPods in as an example. But nothing's changing. Like just because you have a game, just because you have a cool message, just because you have clever announcements, none of those things are reaching them because he's complacent.

00;06;25;02 - 00;06;55;47
Nick Clason
He's he's not or she's not into whatever you have doing. They're honestly they're being forced to be at church. And here's the thing. That is a really tough pill for us to swallow. Sometimes as youth pastors, is students physical attendance in the room Does not equal an our authentic heart level buy in of what's going on, not only in youth group, but frankly, in faith as it pertains to their relationship with God.

00;06;55;52 - 00;07;17;22
Nick Clason
Because you don't want to just go after their physical attendance, you know what I'm saying? Their physical attendance is not the goal, only their heart being bought into it. Their heart being bought into it is the goal. And so you might be asking, Well, how do I chaste their heart? That's a great question. And in a lot of cases you don't.

00;07;17;27 - 00;07;45;09
Nick Clason
That's the Holy Spirit's role in their life. So you can pray for them and you can try to program creatively in such a way that that they find that and you can try to develop a type of community that's authentic and real and raw that most Gen Z, most Gen Alpha students are actually looking for and that community can take root and that student's life so that they belong to their group before they really truly start to exhibit elements of belief.

00;07;45;14 - 00;08;13;59
Nick Clason
But you can't change their heart. You know that that's the Holy Spirit shop. But just like travel sports and now with an attitude of complacency or just a bad attitude in general, I do have two ideas that I think can change the game in both of those arenas, and we're going to hit that in the next section. So my idea for travel sports and my idea for a complacent attitude is actually one in the same.

00;08;14;04 - 00;08;45;58
Nick Clason
And the idea, of course, is to try to go hybrid. Now, listen, you're like, dude, you're the hybrid ministry podcast. Of course you're thinking that. And yeah, I am. But I have detailed an outline for you in my 100% completely free e-book. It's basically my Nick Clason and the church I'm at now Strategy Guide for Social Media. And it's twofold and the two fold, they actually hit both of the things that we're trying to talk about.

00;08;45;58 - 00;09;12;05
Nick Clason
So the first fold of it is pre film your talks in what pre filming your talks does not only gives you some practice and some opportunity to kind of get ahead of your calendar so that you're not giving up live whenever you're preaching on a Wednesday or Sunday night and looking at your notes for the first time, you've had an opportunity to do it, to deliver it direct to camera, very much like I'm doing right here in this setting, but too, especially for the busy kids.

00;09;12;10 - 00;09;34;24
Nick Clason
It allows them, if they're truly interested in church, to to to consume the message that you've given to them. I know in my show choir example and karate example from the beginning that Brandon I don't really know because he didn't last very long. His family left the church not too long later. But Megan, like her and her family, like they were committed.

00;09;34;29 - 00;09;59;26
Nick Clason
And if I couldn't have offered youth group for them, I know that she would have at least went back and watched the messages because that was something that she was interested in. And so a hybrid approach can actually help the busy kids who can't make it on a Sunday, on a Wednesday, on a Thursday, on a Tuesday, on a whatever day of the week, you end up deciding they can still listen to the message and word of God directly from you, from your mouth, from their youth pastor.

00;09;59;31 - 00;10;35;38
Nick Clason
And you can pre film those messages and post those to YouTube. Now you might be thinking like, Yeah, but, but that doesn't really do much for me, especially by way of the kid who's complacent and doesn't really want anything to do with it. And you know, where I would say with that is the other approach to that is when you pre film your messages, it not only gives you some short form message based clipped content that you can post and use and sprinkle in an all throughout your social media, but it also can let you kind of do another set of social media, which is add more of an element of fun.

00;10;35;43 - 00;10;59;21
Nick Clason
And when you add more of an element of fun, you can go after that student's heart and again, still, that's the Holy Spirit's job. But what if the reason that they're not interested is just because you youth ministry is boring? And so one of the things that we'll do in our student ministry is we’ll film some fun, quirky, silly, entertainment based content as a staff, as a student ministry team.

00;10;59;25 - 00;11;24;40
Nick Clason
But then other times we will challenge ourselves to do some sort of social media challenge where we'll will invite students to be on camera with us. And so that will give them an opportunity to engage and interact. And then when we've invited them onto camera with us, they'll have an opportunity. Now to see themselves later on social media throughout the week.

00;11;24;45 - 00;11;47;00
Nick Clason
And so you can take your long form message content and that can solve the the problem for travel sports. And then you can clip those up into shorts and push people who discover them to watch a YouTube video. And then you can also film some silly content to be discovered by your algorithm and to to engage with the complacent student, the junior with the hood on in the back of the room.

00;11;47;05 - 00;12;14;20
Nick Clason
And you can even films from that content with him and post it. And if you take my strategy fully laid out right here on screen, link down below in the show notes, I will detail for you all of how to do that. And I hope that if you go hybrid, it helps of your extracurricular activities and it also helps of your student ministry, complacency, activities and actually, I have detailed for you the entire strategy in the video that's linked right here on the screen.

00;12;14;25 - 00;12;32;31
Nick Clason
So go ahead, take a look at that. Stop posting announcements to social media. Be better, level it up. You can do it because we're trying to make digital discipleship easy, possible and accessible. So, as always, don't forget stay hybrid.

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========================================

DESCRIPTION
👋 Welcome to our YouTube channel & podcast!

✅ In this comprehensive video, we reveal the key to planning effective and engaging social events for your youth group. From icebreakers and team-building activities to creative theme ideas and logistical tips, we've got you covered.

👐 Discover how to foster a sense of community, encourage meaningful connections, and create a safe and inclusive environment for all participants.

========================================

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📓SHOWNOTES
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//YOUTUBE VIDEO
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#1 PLANNING
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#3 GAMES
//DIVE INTO THRILLING GAMES:
https://youtu.be/OiBjI9dMxu8?si=YIVFdYh-6KM8nySP

//SEAMLESS BLENDING: THE ULTIMATE HYBIRD EVENT
EPISODE: https://youtu.be/5ryhkIRyDb4?si=qV6v3-ORrgcmLLtZ
GUIDE: https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/worlds-greatest-donut

//9 BEST DYM RESOURCES
https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/dym

#4 SNACKS

#5 PREACHING & TEACHING
//TEACHING TO A TIKTOK GENERATION
https://youtu.be/iIgEtxPLGBg?si=7tQYGGyW7kCKq9KS

#6 SMALL GROUPS
//SAMPLE SMALL GROUP GUIDE
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/okmirbzzu6avn0o5knrj3/08_13_2023_RuinSchool_GroupGuide_Week1.pdf?rlkey=ozs2lmz1ewxmehwn89fnqj1u7&dl=0

#7 FOLLOW UP
//ENGAGE WITH STUDENTS DURING THE WEEK
https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/free-hybrid-ministry-e-book

//OPUS.PRO
https://youtu.be/TiW4ooQpAvo?si=Ayp7-8W4_QWawi3G

https://www.opus.pro/?via=a5d361

🕰️TIMECODES
00:00-00:44 7 Part Youth Group Checklist
00:44-02:50 1) Always Be Planning
02:50-04:36 2) Communication
04:36-05:47 3) Games
05:47-07:37 4) Snacks
07:37-08:55 5) Preaching & Teaching
08:55-10:09 6) Small Groups
10:09-11:35 7) Follow-Up

✍️TRANSCRIPT
Try Transcribing for Yourself at Rev.Com
http://www.rev.pxf.io/R5nDOa

Nick Clason (00:00):
Are you a youth pastor, a youth ministry leader, looking to make your gatherings of people your physical gatherings more intricate and maybe even make 'em a little bit more exciting? How do you plan a surefire amazing event? And furthermore, what do you do to hybridize it? Right? My entire strategy in this podcast is to help you take not just your in-person gatherings, but also your digital presence, social media website, and meld those two together so that you can truly have a hybrid ministry. If that's what you're looking for, you're in luck because that is what we're going to be talking about in this episode today. This is the Hybrid Ministry Show, and we have a seven step framework for the Ultimate Youth Group gathering. Let's get going. Number one is you need to be planning. Listen, I am a 13 year youth ministry veteran, and I have learned that the hard way over my time in ministry, there have been so many times where I've been caught at an event without any plan whatsoever, and I am forced to pivot in the moment.

Nick Clason (01:00):
So it's not only helped me get a little bit more nimble on my feet, but also it's forced me to realize the importance of planning. So there are a couple of really good tools. One that works really well for us in our space is a project management tool called Base Camp. It's quite expensive, but if your church has the budget for it, I recommend at least looking into it, and I'm sure they have a free trial version that you can check out if that's something you're interested in. Also, planning Center online, it's what most people use, especially musicians and such for services and for musicians and disseminating music and stuff like that. But that's a great place to communicate with your tech person, with anyone else that's going to be on stage about what the plan is, what the game is. And so I use that every single week to just let everybody know what is to be expected and what's going to be happening in the actual program of the event.

Nick Clason (01:48):
Event. And then also just free Google Docs. It's a shared space. If you're in a meeting, everyone can have the same Google Doc up. You don't have to have a whiteboard, you don't have to be in some conference room. You can do it via Zoom. But Google Docs and Google Drive are both great docs for word processing, but Google Drive for file sharing and file storage, and you can link things via Google Docs, but you can use Base Camp. You can use Planning center services. You can use Google, Google Drive. You can use those to your advantage to get ahead to think ahead about what is going to happen in your youth ministry space. And hey, if you're watching this video and you've found value so far, please consider liking subscribing, maybe even sharing with the friend, because it's really important that it helps us out a lot, not for us and the accolades, but for the message of hybrid ministry to get out to the world because we believe that teenagers need the gospel and speaking this digital language, this hybrid ministry is their language that they're used to in this world. So please help us out by liking, subscribing, and sharing. Tip number two is communication. Get the word out. You've done the planning. Now people need to know, and I have this

Nick Clason (02:58):
Completely free ebook about how to utilize and use social media in your space. Link down below in the description, go check it out. But I believe that social media can be a form of communication as long as you're not just posting boring, rote, standard static graphics, right? If you use it to the way that social media is meant to be used, one of entertainment, one of fun, short form, vertical based video, I will help you with all of those things in this video. But as you're communicating, you need to be thinking on three different tracks. As a youth pastor, student, parent leader, there really are three audiences that you're communicating with. How are you getting the message out to your students? How are you getting the message out to your parents? And then how are you getting the message out to your leaders? And then a fourth kind of pro tip, bonus tip is also over here, the staff that you work with.

Nick Clason (03:51):
And some of those might cross. Some parents might be leaders, some staff might be parents and all that type of stuff, but those are your three main audiences. I believe that's one of the reasons that youth pastors struggle so much with communication is because you may feel as though you have adequately communicated it, and thus you have to your students. But do all the parents know or is the staff aware of how you're going to be using a different space in the building and then they find you over there and in the kids area because you told the students you're going to be there, but you didn't let the other people on staff know. And so you may have some more conflict with that. So as you're communicating any sort of event that, especially if it's out of cycle, be asking yourself, how do the students know?

Nick Clason (04:33):
How do the leaders know? How do the parents know? Another thing is games. We did a deep dive on games in this playlist over here called Exploring New Digital Frontiers, and we talked about where did games come from and why is it a part of youth ministry? I also gave some ideas. Another one of my favorite episodes that we did was me debriefing an event we did called The World's Greatest Donut. We had tons of games for it, but it was also an amazing hybrid event. And finally, I have a link in the show notes to some of my DYM favorite games. I've created several resources that are on Download Youth ministry, and they are dirt cheap, 5, 6, 7 bucks. If you don't have a membership, even cheaper if you do. So go check some of those out. I love the game. Emoji Phraseology. I love the game. GIF Flashback, and I love the Game Visual, Variance, Voyage. Those are just a few, but I have several on there. But games are an amazing way to up the level of engagement in your space. Fun is the language of teenagers, and so speak it, get them laughing, get them competing, get them having fun together in your gathering. Another really key element to think about is snacks. I had a meeting with a group of leaders last year, and I invited my wife

Nick Clason (05:56):
To come be one of the other leaders meeting with these student leaders, I should say, and I asked her, I said, Hey, what's one thing I could do to level this meeting up? What she said, have snacks. When do you go to somebody's house and they don't offer you something to eat or something to drink? Almost never, right? And the same is true in student ministry. Snacks help kind of bring that energy level down a little bit, not energy level, but bring that insecurity level down a little bit. People, their walls are down a little bit. They're willing to engage, come across the table a little bit more when their snacks. I know it sounds crazy. I know it sounds simple. It might even be a budget buster, but maybe consider opening a cafe where people can purchase snacks, maybe put cheap things out. And one thing I've done before is if you do have a cafe, we gave popcorn away for free, but that drove people back to the cafe to buy the drinks.

Nick Clason (06:51):
There's a reason that bars put peanuts and pretzels out at the table for free because it forces people to buy their drinks. Hey, if you didn't know this, this episode or this channel has a website hybridministry.xyz in every single episode, this is episode. So if you went to hybridministry.xyz slash 0 7 6, we have for you a thing that we do for every single episode. We've done it since episode one, completely free transcripts. That's one of the things that we pay for out of our pocket to serve you and the listener. So if you are listening on a run and you want to go back and hear this, or if you're watching this and you want to take notes, you can go to the website and download a completely free transcript so that you can see everything that we are talking about. Now, element number five of a successful youth gathering is preaching and teaching.

Nick Clason (07:45):
Like I said, we just did an exploring new digital frontiers, and we did a whole episode on how to teach to a TikTok generation. Previously. This generation on websites and social media have an attention span of 8.25 seconds, which is less than the human pet goldfish, right? So how do you teach to a generation like that? How do you keep things interesting while still presenting the meaningful, purposeful, and important truth of the Bible and the truth from God's word? We dove into that. We also gave some ideas about hybrid message enhancements. Things like you version events, things like websites, things like QR codes, things that can just help take the message beyond just the physical meeting space, but you can offer it and extend it and put it in front of your students on social media, on their devices that they're using throughout the rest of the week, but communicate to them then accurately and effectively in the moment using some of these tips and tricks that we talked about in that episode.

Nick Clason (08:48):
But teaching and preaching is a vitally important part to youth ministry gatherings. Number six, small groups. You may not have small groups in your space, so if you don't, then find a way to let students digest the message a little bit. If you don't have small groups in your space or you have it another night of the week, consider maybe having your students sit around tables. And then you could do a more like master teacher style thing where you teach for a little bit and then you toss out a couple of questions to the tables to let the students interact. Gen Z does not want to be a consumer. They want to be a contributor. So find a way to let your students voices be heard. Find a way to let them talk about it. Maybe you do have small groups for the last 30 minutes in your student ministry gatherings.

Nick Clason (09:37):
Have a guide. I'll right here on the screen, you can see the way that we have our guides set up. We have before, during, and after and after, is aimed at our leaders being pastoral to our students. The before is sort of their prep work with the versus and the big ideas. And then during are the questions that we want them to be asking to lead our students from a silly sort of like drop the water level moment, like, hey, some icebreaker type stuff down all the way to some serious things and ending with the group's ending in prayer.

Nick Clason (10:10):
And finally, when your event's over, number seven, what are you going to do about follow-up? What is your ongoing strategy to stay in front of students throughout the week? Because if you have an hour meeting, but you don't ever get to a spot where you are engaging with them in their real life, what about Thursday morning when they wake up after youth group? What about Monday morning when they're on their way to school and they're on the school bus? Why should they think about the things of God that you were talking about last night or yesterday? Why should they care about those things? Which is one of the reasons I think hybrid ministry is so important, and I have this completely free ebook to help you reach and engage the students in their space to engage with the other hours in the week beyond just your program time.

Nick Clason (10:54):
It's not just physical, it's not just digital, it is hybrid. And so in that ebook, we also point people to a completely free resource called opus.pro. It will help you clip your messages up into small, short form bite-size videos. But what I want to know is that I want to help you guys understand the importance of gatherings and how you can take the physical gathering, how you can take your digital moments, how you can meld those two. Hope you found this video helpful. On the screen is the next video. Be sure to click that. Be sure to subscribe because we at hybrid ministry are making digital discipleship easy, possible and accessible. So as always, and don't forget, stay hybrid.

📅 "1 Month Done for You Social Media Posting Tool"
https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/free-hybrid-ministry-e-book

☝️ONE-CLICK SOLUTION FOR REELS & SHORTS
OPUS FOR AI SHORTS & REELS
https://www.opus.pro/?via=a5d361

🧑‍🚀 EXPLORING NEW FRONTIERS PLAYLIST
Exploring The New Way to Approach Ministry, Full Playlist
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLngXlSr64YaLQ3UpL1HRb3FFtEu-7S1XZ

========================================

DESCRIPTION
Preaching, Teaching and Youth Ministry
It’s part of what we do in the church.

You’ve also heard that this generation, according to crossrivertherapy.com has an attention span of just 8.25 seconds. Which is 4.25 seconds LESS than we experienced in the year 2000.

Famously, that’s less than a goldfish

But teaching and preaching the Bible, is not only an integral part of youth ministry, but learning the Bible is important to the discipleship and developmental process, not only in teenagers, but in anyone who claims to follow Jesus Christ as their savior.

So how do we take the Hybrid approach to teaching and preaching.
Hybrid is not just your physical gathering
But not ignoring it in favor of your digital experience, either.

It’s both.

In this episode we’ll explore the how to preach and teach to a TikTok Generation.
What we’re up against.

What we can learn from culture

And finally, 3 Hybrid Solutions you can implement THIS Wednesday night.

========================================

🆓 FREEBIES 🆓
📅 "1 Month Done for You Social Media Posting Tool"
https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/free-hybrid-ministry-e-book

😨 "Have I already Ruined my TikTok Account?"
https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/ebook

📹 "Adobe Premiere Pro Presets for Animating Layers"
https://share.hsforms.com/1VL1oWwWwQ82PLwsPFkPITgnumis

========================================
🛠️TOOLS
Some of the below links are affilate links in which we do recieve a small commission based on your purchase or use of products
//YOUTUBE STARTER KIT FOR UNDER $100
https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/youtubestarterkit

AUTO POD
https://autopod.lemonsqueezy.com?aff=MX7Vv

TRY REV.COM FOR TRANSCRIBING
https://rev.pxf.io/R5nDOa

OPUS.PRO FOR AI SHORTS & REELS

https://www.opus.pro/?via=a5d361

👉 STAY CONNECTED WITH NICK
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@clasonnick
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hybridministry/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@clasonnick
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HybridMinistry

Website: https://www.hybridministry.xyz

📓SHOWNOTES
//SHOWNOTES & TRANSCRIPTS
http://www.hybridministry.xyz/072

//View all the Charts and Graphs via YouTube
https://youtu.be/iIgEtxPLGBg

//Mr. Beast on YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCX6OQ3DkcsbYNE6H8uQQuVA

//Alex Hormozi
https://www.youtube.com/@AlexHormozi

//Steven Furtick
https://www.youtube.com/@stevenfurtick

//Research on Attention Spans
https://www.crossrivertherapy.com/average-human-attention-span
https://journals.physiology.org/doi/pdf/10.1152/advan.00109.2016

//My Youth Min by Ym360
https://myyouthmin.com/

//The Learning Triangle
https://www.educationcorner.com/the-learning-pyramid.html

//Solution #1
https://sidekick.tv/

//Solution #2
https://my.bible.com/events

//Solution #3
https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/free-hybrid-ministry-e-book
https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/youtubestarterkit

🕰️TIMECODES
00:00-01:36 Preaching to the Generation with the Shortest Attention Span in History
01:36-03:33 Teaching, Preaching and Hybrid Ministry is vital to the next generation
03:33-11:15 Teaching to a TikTok Generation
11:15-15:46 What can youth pastors learn from culture?

15:46-21:39 3 Immediate Hybrid Solutions

✍️TRANSCRIPT
Try Transcribing for Yourself at Rev.Com
rev.pxf.io/R5nDOa

Nick Clason (00:00):
Preaching teaching and youth ministry, they go together. It's just part of what we do. But what do you do when you're trying to preach and teach to the generation with the shortest attention span of only 8.25 seconds? Famously, you've heard it's less now than a goldfish down 4.5 seconds from the year 2000. And is there a way for us to digitally enhance through hybrid means the way in which people learn and listen to our teaching and our preaching now in this generation because teaching and preaching is not only an integral part of youth ministry, but it's an integral part of the way in which we disciple our students and help them understand the claims, values and teachings of Jesus. So how do we take this hybrid approach, not just digital, not just in person, but melding of the two together to increase awareness and to help bring about a better retention of our teaching and our preaching to our students.

Nick Clason (01:08):
In this episode, we will answer how to preach and teach to a tick talk generation and what we as communicators are up against. Additionally, we'll explore what we can learn from the culture that's around us. And finally, I want to offer for you three hybrid solutions to help engage and increase teaching and preaching and awareness in your context that you can implement tomorrow. Welcome to the Hybrid Ministry Show. Well, hey everyone. Welcome back to another edition of the Hybrid Ministry Show. I, as always am your host Nick Clason. I'm a 13 year youth ministry veteran now currently located in the DFW Dallas Fort Worth area. Excited to be with you. I've been teaching and preaching my entire career, but I've also been engaging with the importance of hybrid ministry. I've been aware of that and aware of the digital revolution ever since I started in youth ministry, which is why we have this playlist right here linked at the top of the screen that you're a part of as we are exploring new digital frontiers.

Nick Clason (02:12):
The last video was all about games and how we can implement hybrid into our games and into the fun in our youth ministries. And this episode is about enhancing the messages. So I hope that you'll stick around to the very end of the video because in addition to that, I have a sure surefire resource linked in the description below. That's not only going to help you win on social media and bring about your messages and all those things to your students and help bring that to them the other hours of your week, but it'll also help you have fun with them like we talked about in the last video. And so I want to encourage you to I you to subscribe. Those things are free for you and they mean a lot to me, and I want you to do that because we do drop resources, like I just mentioned, 40 done for you, an entire month's worth of social media, but not just a bunch of graphics.

Nick Clason (03:04):
This is you actually getting in front of the camera, getting in front of a video, using yourself, your students, your leaders, whoever you want to help change the game on your social media platform. And so those types of things are coming at you every single week. We'll drop a new episode every single Thursday, so like subscribe, can't wait to see on the other side, but hey, we are going to be diving into teaching to a TikTok generation. Let's explore that together. So famously, this generation has an attention span of 8.25 seconds. It said that that is less than the household goldfish. So I don't know if any of you guys have gold fishes or teenagers in your house, but if you do, your teenager has a shorter attention span than a goldfish. What is going on nowadays though is the short form video revolution ushered into us by TikTok during the pandemic has changed the way in which we engage with content online.

Nick Clason (04:07):
It just has our attention spans are getting shorter. The need and relevance for a really, really crucial opening section of your video is what is going to determine if someone sticks around in your video or if they're going to leave. In fact, I want to share with you three examples from three very different classes and creators and just like different pockets of YouTube, but all three very good, three people who know what they're doing on social media. And I want to point out to you, we're going to watch 'em right here live on screen. I want to react to how well their hook and how well their intro does. So the first one up is a Mr. Beast video. So let's check this out together.

Nick Clason (04:54):
Hundred million mankind, okay? He's just taught, he's just B roll. He's got Justin Timberlake on there. Whoa, got those waves with his editing's great all the way to this barely functioning house, more of a shed. Well, why does this house cost a dollar? Yeah, we get another storm. It's probably going to, he's already into the content now of his video. He's only 38 seconds in. It feels like the intro. It just seamlessly moves straight into the content. Mr. Beast is probably the best at the opening ones. This one is more of a entrepreneur guy, guru trying to help you win online. So let's check out his video. This is my most brutally honest advice to my, you beat 99% of people zoomed out without media advice to my younger self and

Nick Clason (05:57):
How I, you're going to lose sleep. You'll doubt whether it'll work. You'll stress. He's catering to the difficulty of what he does and what the people that follow him need to do. He's got B roll, he's got light transitions, all that type of stuff. Great. Now this one right here, this is Churchill from Elevation Steven S check this one out sitting on that you're not using today. That's not the beginning of his sermon, but it's the beginning of this video. Arrows, you should have taken everything God gave you kept striking until you saw it to. They edited it so that it started there at what they considered to be the most interesting part, artillery to be defeated. It was his lack of drive. The reason I want to show all of you that is that the first 30 seconds or less of every single one of those videos, all very different, but all very good.

Nick Clason (06:56):
Everyone who edited that video knew exactly what they were doing. So I actually have a video that I just released on a platform called My Youth Men, which is a membership tier of YM 360. You can check it out, link in the description for a seven day free trial. But the video is about discipling students and teenagers through the usage pitfalls and platforms with cell phones as opposed to a way, and I show you those videos because I want to say that's what we as communicators are up against. Your students are watching those for entertainment, for fun, even maybe for inspiration with a Steven Furtick. And then you and I get up as their youth pastor and we start teaching at them in all of our old seminary taught ways. I think as I said in my video, that there are new ways of doing it.

Nick Clason (07:51):
In fact, this is a educator's tool. It's going to be up here on the screen. If you're listening to the podcast, make sure that you hit the link in the show notes so you can see everything on YouTube with all of our video overlays and all of our things flying in. But this is called the knowledge pyramid, and there are two sections to it. There's the passive teaching methods and then there's the participatory teaching methods. And most of us in church are using the passive teaching methods and the percentages are broken down by the knowledge retention rate. So how well this style of teaching helps people retain that type of teaching. And so the lowest at 5% is lecture based style. You might think 8.25 seconds is low, but I'm just going to admit to you, I am bored after a lecture after only 8.25 seconds.

Nick Clason (08:42):
You have to be really killing it, and I have to be really interested in that form of content. In the lecture style pyramid, 10% of the retention rate is reading, 20% is audio visual. So that would be something like including slides and or video in your teaching. And then 30% is demonstration. That's of the passive teaching style methods. So all of those things are all things that you've been taught probably in seminary of how to teach someone and how to maintain relevance as you teach someone. But then it shifts and at 50% a discussion group, a participatory teaching method is where that learning retention rate jumps up to 50%. If someone practices what they've learned by doing it, it jumps to 75% and then if they teach others, it jumps to 90%. So in most cases, us as youth pastors, we push our students through passive teaching methods, and then finally we get them into a discussion group As a participatory teaching method, discussion group is the lowest of the participatory section of retention, and that is why you and I as we are teaching, we need to differ at what we're doing. Look at what Mr. Beast did, how he looked at all the different houses, right? And he kept it moving. He was only on each house for just a few seconds. He was moving, he was garnering interest, he was keeping you hooked. Even look at fur, he's on the floor with arrows in hand doing his thing. Yeah, it was lecture style, but there's visuals to it. And in our youth ministries, more often than not, we're going to push people in to small groups, which is a relevant and meaningful participatory teaching method.

Nick Clason (10:32):
And so as we know and look at the different teaching pyramid styles, here is my question, what do we do? How do we infuse and use hybrid to help increase the retention rates of the learnings? Because you know that the message that you're teaching matters. It's a truth of God. It's a truth from God's word, and it's been put on your heart by him, and you're trying to help share that message with the students in which God has entrusted to you in your student ministry. So what do you do about it? I think that there are a couple of clues that we can learn from culture, even from some of those YouTube videos that we watch. And so that's what we're going to check out in the next section. Neil Bradbury has a quote. The link to that article is in the show notes. He says, the eight second myth, as he classifies it for attention spans is actually more related to human behavior on websites and on social media and how many seconds the average person spends on a website before clicking away or navigating off of it.

Nick Clason (11:39):
So we have famously dubbed Generation Z and Gen Alpha subsequently as the generation with the tension span lower than a goldfish. And that's true as it relates to social media and Mr. Beast and Alex Har Zi, and even Steven Fer and Elevation, they're trying to capture people's attention on social media. So they do have to make that happen within eight seconds. And we are up against that, I would say, as communicators because that's how students are spending a majority of their time. Gen Z's using their cell phone more than any other screen-based device combined. However, I want to point something out that is a website statistic. And so while that is true of websites, the attention span is a little bit longer because eight seconds is incredibly short. And check this out. Over the last however many years, these are the top five grossing box office movies of all time.

Nick Clason (12:35):
So in 2009, avatar came out, and I think it's even been supplanted by itself for the re-release or something like that, but Avatar, the movie is two hours and 42 minutes. Avengers End Game came out in 2019. Shout out to my favorite movie. I love you. 3000. It is three hours in one minute. I was nervous going into Avengers end game. I was like, I might have to pee. What do I do if I have to pee? And I did. Titanic in 1992 was three hours and 14 minutes. Star Wars episode seven, two hours and 18 minutes, and an Avengers Infinity War, the prequel to end game 2018, two hours and 29 minutes long. Movies are still making money, they're still making them, and they're still releasing them. Also, shout out to Disney for owning four of the top five of those properties. All that to be said though, if it weren't lucrative and if it weren't making money, Disney and the other major motion picture companies in America wouldn't be making movies at that length.

Nick Clason (13:43):
So what does that mean for us? We got this eight second thing, but now we got movies that are going longer than three hours. How do we reconcile the difference between those two? My contention is this, if it's good, people will pay attention. It's that simple. And here's the reality. Most research, including Ted Talk and that organization say that a sweet spot for lectures is anywhere from 10 to 15 minutes. That's optimal. However, if it's moving, if it's keeping attention, if it's changing things up, even just going back and watching Mr. Beast intro video, how if it's moving and adapting, you can keep the attention of your audience. But here's a gut check. If Avatar and Endgame and Star Wars and Titanic are keeping people's attention, but you're losing them after only eight seconds, then the gut check moment for you and I as youth pastors might be, we might be more boring than we think we are.

Nick Clason (14:46):
In fact, I've been recording videos on this YouTube channel for six months, eight months now, and that's been a gut check moment for me. When certain videos get less views, I'll go back, I'll look at the analytics and I'll go and re-listen to it myself. And you know what? I'll notice, man, I'm boring, right? I have to learn how to be more captivating. I have to learn how to be more interesting. I have to learn how to keep and retain my audience longer throughout the duration of my videos. Not only is that true for me as a communicator via YouTube via video to y'all, but it's also true for me as a youth pastor. But going back and looking, watching those videos, which by the way, if you are not prerecording your messages or recording them at all to go back and look and learn, you are missing out on the easiest way to become better as a communicator.

Nick Clason (15:31):
But there's another hack and there's another little silver bullet that's going to slide in here because we are going to be exploring three hybrid ideas in this digital frontier to enhance our messages in the room. Let's check it out. So what are these hybrid ideas? Like I said, it's not just physical. It's not just digital, but it's a melding of the two. So in my mind, you're teaching live in the room, but you're putting things on their cell phone or putting resources on their cell phone for them to use later because they're taking their cell phone with them for the other 165 hours beyond just the one hour that you've been in your program. And most of us as youth pastors, we're not good enough to contend with cell phones. So instead of contending with them, using them, leaning into them, we just forced them to lock them away or get rid of them.

Nick Clason (16:20):
But one of my favorite solutions from my favorite people over at Download Youth Ministry is sidekick. Check it out, sidekick TV link in the show notes. I get zero kickback from this, but I'm a power user and they just released or they're going to release and listen. I may be letting the cat out of the bag a little bit, but they're going to be releasing a polling feature. So you can put a QR code on the screen, students can scan it, and they can vote live time, and you can show it live from the stage. And better yet, you can now control sidekick from your phone or your iPad if you don't have a tech person running back in the back. And so you can do live interactive types of things to interact with your in-person and letting them use the digital means in front of them.

Nick Clason (17:08):
So you can ask like, Hey, what is the best Thanksgiving food? Is it stuffing mashed potatoes, pumpkin pie, Turkey or ham? Let us know. Scan this QR code, and then you can get live results from your audience. You also, just like the learning pyramid showed, in addition to your lecture style, you need to be bringing visual aid with it. Use your screens, use your multimedia to your advantage. Use the things that are common to your students, like memes and tos. You can even pull out things like, Hey, show the most interesting photo from your last week in your camera roll. And one of my all time favorite ways to be hybrid is any sort of call to action, a camp, sign up, a discipleship, sign up. Even now, the sidekick voting thing use QR codes. They've had a resurgence since the pandemic, but people now can scan QR codes with just their camera app and their phone.

Nick Clason (18:02):
It will pull a link up and boom, you are off to the races. Use QR codes to your advantage. Use sidekick, use digital media, use your screens to interact and make things hybrid. The next idea that I have for you is you version events in our space, we call them digital notes. And so we link our YouVersion live events. If you didn't know, YouVersion is the Bible app made by Life church, but they have a events portion. And so what happens is if someone is in your church, it will pull geographically all the events that are live and they can get in there and there can be notes. Your main points scriptures you Additionally, my favorite reason for it is you can create call to action. So you can put your camp signup, you can put a Bible reading plan so they can be on the digital notes.

Nick Clason (19:01):
They can be taking notes in the space in your room as you're teaching, as you're preaching. And then at the end, you can be like, and hey, if you are learning right now and enjoying this message about prayer, but you want to grow even deeper into prayer, then I have a seven day prayer challenge plan linked in the you version, in the digital notes, whatever you want to call it. And kids can click it on their phone and write their sign up for a Bible reading plan. It's a way to help foster discipleship to lean into the hybrid, right? You taught something, but now by just having notes available to them on their phone, you can say, Hey, click accept, and start reading that plan. The third idea that I have for you is use YouTube and use social media. In fact, in the links down below, I have a couple of things, a less than $100 YouTube setup for you to start doing messages similar to this one right here where you're sitting direct to camera and posting your messages to YouTube.

Nick Clason (19:59):
If you have live streaming capabilities, then do that. But if you don't, as a youth pastor, I get it. I don't either sit down, prerecord your messages. In addition to that, you can use a service also linked in the description called Opus Pro to then take your long form and clip it into short form and give yourself a bunch of social media content for the week. And if you then need something to help fill in some of the other gaps, that's where my surefire resource, my ebook, my 40 done for you ideas comes in. And that message can live in perpetuity online as you help answer the specific faith questions of this next generation. It can be more than just for students who miss. It can be for parents to check it out. It can be for students who don't even go to your church.

Nick Clason (20:43):
It can be for students who go to your church to share messages with friends if they would never bring their friends to church, they can share a message on YouTube with their friends. And so those are my three ideas, sidekick in digital media, you versions, digital notes, and finally, utilize and use YouTube and social media to your advantage. The final piece of this playlist is we're going to be exploring and talking about how do we care for students in an ongoing type of way. We meet with them once a week, but then there's 167 hours. How can we, in a hybrid way care for the students pastorally in the ways in which God has entrusted to us? That video is linked right here on the screen. Make sure you check it out. We're making digital discipleship easy, possible and accessible. So as always, and don't forget, stay hybrid.

🔍 What's the Buzz About?
In this thought-provoking discussion, Carey Nieuwhof and Warren Byrd explore the dynamic landscape of the Hybrid Church model. They shed light on the cutting-edge trends and unveil the fascinating possibilities that await the Church in the digital age.

🌐 Embracing the Digital Ministry
Discover how churches and youth ministries can harness the power of technology and digital platforms to expand their outreach. Unravel the secrets to effective digital ministry and explore innovative ways to leverage social media for church growth.

💻 Marketing the Church for Impact
Join us as we explore successful church social media strategies that bridge the gap between the physical and digital worlds. Learn how your ministry can create a strong online presence, connect with your congregation, and engage with a broader audience.

📲 Social Media: Friend or Foe?
In this candid discussion, Nick, your host unpack the potential pitfalls of social media in the church context while also highlighting its incredible power to have incredible outreach potential and foster community.

🤝 The Jury is Still Out
As the Hybrid Church concept gains momentum, the discussion isn't complete without acknowledging the questions and uncertainties surrounding its implementation. Delve into the gray areas and explore where the future of the Hybrid Church is still unknown.

Whether you're a seasoned pastor, a curious church member, or a tech-savvy youth pastor, this episode of the Hybrid Ministry Podcast promises to leave you inspired and equipped to embrace the future of the church in a digital world.

🔔 Subscribe now and join us on this enlightening journey into the world of Hybrid Ministry! Don't miss out on any future episodes, packed with insightful conversations and actionable strategies for a thriving Hybrid Church.

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Website: https://www.hybridministry.xyz

SHOWNOTES
📹 Watch Carey's Interview with Warren: https://youtu.be/u2zj9XPPxlI?t=4715
🎧 Listen to Carey's Interview with Warren: https://careynieuwhof.com/episode574/

📹 Hybrid Ministry on the Importance of the Church Website: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxndpebNlbw&t=2s
🎧 Hybrid Ministry on the Importance of the Church Website: https://www.hybridministry.xyz/040

✍️ Transcripts Provided by Rev.com Try Rev.com for yourself: https://rev.pxf.io/R5nDOa

TIMECODES
00:00-02:14 Intro
02:14-05:54 Warren Byrd on What's here to stay with Hybrid Ministry and where the jury is still out.
05:54-10:53 Nick Responds to Warren's Take on the Future of Hybrid Ministry
10:53-13:57 Hybrid & Digital work for Evangelism. Do they work for Discipleship?
13:57-21:36 What aspects of Discipleship can be turned digital?
21:36-23:15 Outro

TRANSCRIPT
Nick Clason (00:01):
What is up everyone? Welcome back to another edition of the Hybrid Ministry Show. I am your host, Nick Clayson, excited to be with you. If you're watching on YouTube, you'll notice a little bit of a different setup. We did, um, some filming today. A two things. Number one, it's not air conditioned in here, so I'm gonna be super sweaty, so just roll with that. But b uh, got some new lights, got some new audio equipment. Um, one of these days I'm gonna do a step by step, like every single thing that we did, and I'll release it to you guys. Today's not that day, but because we're in here and because I was already set, I was like, I'm just gonna film in here. Typical day, filming day. Uh, normally I come in early and film and then get to work on like work stuff, but today I had to get all this stuff set up 'cause I didn't know how to use it.

Nick Clason (00:51):
It was brand new, literally just ordered it last week. Came in over the weekend, so I wanted to get it all set up. Uh, so kind of displaced my time, moved it around a little bit. All that to be said. In today's episode, I want to talk about a recent Carrie Nho leadership podcast. I'm a subscriber, love his show. Um, if you haven't ever gone on there, go check it out. But he did a recent, um, episode with Warren Bird and, um, another guy named JJ something or other. Um, I'll put the link in the show notes. You can check it out. But it, it was about, um, uh, church planting and like the future. And at about the one minute and 22, uh, one hour, 22 minute Mark Warren Bird dropped some absolute gold that had to do with what we are, uh, dealing with in this podcast.

Nick Clason (01:36):
So I want to have y'all, uh, take a listen to that and, uh, just share with you guys some of my thoughts with it. So, hey, hit the link in the show notes for all the things you need, your transcript, couple of freebies. We have motion graphics that you can get for Adobe Premiere Pro. And we also have the free ebook about, um, uploading and posting to TikTok all from your app. We're on Instagram. We're on YouTube, and we are on TikTok. So without any further ado, let's dive into this episode titled, um, why does hybrid ministry matter? What do we know is staying and where, where's the jury Still out? Let's go. So, like I said, uh, in the most recent Karen Newh, not most recent, uh, most recent one I listened to, Carrie Newh episode is out from a couple months ago. Warren Bird dropped a couple statements. I just want you to hear it directly from him, and then I will respond. So go ahead, take a listen.

Carey Nieuwhof (02:30):
Warren, any, uh, data or observations on church plants and technology?

Warren Byrd (02:36):
Yeah. Uh, let's divide it into here to stay and the jury's still out. Okay. Uh, here to stay is people check out your church by its website. First used to be the parking lot was the first impression. The website, whatever size church you are, you're gonna check it out. Mm-hmm. , they're gonna ask two questions, fundamentally, are people like me there? And is this a a, is there a scary factor? Is there something that you know, is gonna weird me out too much? Um, also the newcomer, uh, connection. Now, it may not be their first week there, but scan the ur uh, the QR code. Um, tell us either your email or your phone or both, and that becomes a primary communication tool. I'm just amazed at, at especially the younger generation, so willing, uh, to give that up. But carrying it further hybrid stuff.

Warren Byrd (03:29):
Like my wife and I just finished a, a couple's marriage class in our church. We kicked it off in person. We ended it with a happily ever, ever, ever after party afterwards. But all the nights of the group were online. So this couple with five kids, you know, they, they finished the last kid in bed, they flopped down on the sofa, embraced each other, and were part of the class. They would never have gotten a sitter, uh, driven somewhere. And, and maybe one week, but not week after week after week. So the hybrid experience is here to stay. Now, where the jury is still out for churches, large and small is not the evangelism and the outreach. And jj, it's such a wonderful story of the California story. Those will happen in, and now due to the pandemic, the gospel's in every language accessible all around the world for people to hear, it's a brilliant strategy as the silver, one of the silver linings of the pandemic.

Warren Byrd (04:23):
But, but is is it primarily a member equipping and evangelistic strategy, or is it also a discipleship strategy? Mm-hmm. , can discipleship also happen at the same level? Now granted, I can't hug. Yeah. I can't, you know, like, like good Friday for me. Yes. Good question. When I, I'm not that emotional, but every time I do one of those crosses where I nail the nails in, and that's me nailing the nails and cry, well, I can't do that online mm-hmm. , uh, but in person it just, it moves me. So there's certain in-person that that, is it better or is it not? And I was just last week with a bunch of executive pastors from megachurches of a particular denomination, and they're ambivalent. You know, they're still deciding what to do. Yeah. There are still, there are a few pioneers, uh, Kerry, you wrote the forward to, uh, Tim Lucas's, uh, liquid Church book, liquid church and liquid Church, uh, uh, 5,500 before the pandemic says, okay, we may reach thousands in person, but let's figure out how to seamlessly reach tens of thousands of people beyond that. And church plants are with, with whatever their capacity level, depending on their size, are likewise saying, can we have an online impact of discipleship even beyond the broadcasting? So jury's still out on a lot of things, but, uh, I'm excited about the possibilities.

Nick Clason (05:55):
Okay, so we had a couple of things to say. The first is this, um, what's here to stay the church website, I'll drop a link in the show notes, but we had a all episode all about, um, church websites and how important, uh, your church website is just about like street to seat and all that stuff. Like people are still looking at and viewing websites. And if you have not yet put any effort or money into your website, go ahead and do that. And honestly, what I might recommend is I would get somebody who hasn't, who doesn't go to your church and put them on your website and ask them what's confusing, what's broken, what's missing, what's still needed, and all of that stuff will help point you in the right direction of somebody who is going to be an outsider and is going to be utilizing and using your church website.

Nick Clason (06:44):
So, uh, that's a great place to start. He also talks about, uh, next generations being willing to scan QR codes or fill out forms to give out necessary information that is marketing 1 0 1. And so if you can capture people's name and phone number and or email, you have just about everything you need to at least get started in nurturing their relationship. Oftentimes, churches want all of it all at once. Like, what's your name? What's your address? What's your email address, what's your phone number? What's your social security number? And it's like, they're not there yet, bro. Like, give them, like, trade your email address for a free mug or trade your email address for a donation to some sort of like missions agency or something like that. But you can't get it all. But churches just get greedy and frankly lazy because they're unwilling to massage the relationship.

Nick Clason (07:35):
And I can hear you on the other end because I'm, I've been there, right? I'm like, ah, we need all that info and it'd be great. Yeah. If we did okay. However, like give people time to warm up to you. All right? A lot of times people use marketing, um, in church, we don't know. We don't talk and do a lot of like marketing type stuff, but, but a lot of times what needs to happen is we need to like date them first before we marry them. You know what I'm saying? And a lot of times in churches, we just, we want all the married information like, sign this birth certificate, sign up, you're a member now. Like, who, who, hold on. Like, I just was checking it out for one week. Um, but Warburg does say that there is much more willingness in the next generation to give out and, and distribute that type of information.

Nick Clason (08:20):
And so use that to your advantage. Uh, the other thing you talked about was hybrid stuff. And this is really where I wanted to like zone in because he talked about a Zoom class for like a, a marriage class that they did. Um, that's I think where a lot of people's minds go when I say hybrid, and that's quite frankly one of my least favorite options. Um, I think it's a necessary evil and can be used strategically, but like when I say like hybrid, I don't just mean like zoom small groups. I can, um, I much more mean like showing up where people live their lives in Bible reading plans, in, um, group chats, in social media, in Facebook groups, like all type, all types of things like that. That's what I personally mean when I talk about hybrid. And so the same is true, um, with what he's talking about.

Nick Clason (09:12):
Like, you can do those types of things, right? Like you can make those types of, um, classes or whatever via hybrid, via zoom, via whatever. But, um, that, that wouldn't be my only thing. I think podcasts are another amazing, uh, tool to be utilized. A lot of people, um, have the bandwidth desire and willingness to listen to super long form things. And so like if you're a pastor, you know, that like you cut a lot of things out of your sermon for sake of time and brevity and whatever the case might might be. Um, a podcast is a way to, to give more information that might still be helpful, informative, relevant, uh, that you don't have time to put in a sermon. And so, you know, like if you, again, if you've ever preached like, you know, that there are always things that you often have to cut.

Nick Clason (10:01):
And so, um, podcasts are a great long form tool. They can also double and take place on, on YouTube. Okay? Um, and so I thought, I thought what he had to say there was, was fascinating and a lot of the stuff that I, um, have talked about on this podcast, church websites, connections, hybrid stuff, he, he hit all that. And so, you know, as a creative of this podcast, I was like, yes, you know, Warren Bird is like the Yoda of church data and like the, the just like landscape of church growth and trajectories and what's next and what's coming, like all that stuff. So if he says it, I'm, I'm pumped about it. Okay. What I think was interesting, um, and what I wanna talk about a little bit is when he talked about the jury still being out. So let's dive into that discussion a little bit deeper.

Nick Clason (10:54):
All right, so he said the jury is still out basically saying the digital and hybrid work for evangelism, but do they work for discipleship? Um, if you remember, he used a very tactical example of Good Friday and nailing the nail into a cross. And he's like, that's just so monumental and meaningful to me, and I agree with him. Um, but that is not the only way in which people experience hands-on tactical discipleship, especially newer and, and younger generations. They're much more inclined and willing to explore things through a digital lens, relationships through a digital lens, um, and lean more into like hybrid type of opportunities and options. And so, like at my church, like what Warren broke it down to is like reaching people and or evangelism, like bringing people into your church, which I would argue is necessarily evangelism. It's evangelism from an organizational standpoint.

Nick Clason (11:57):
Like as a church organization, we have to be able, ready, willing to, to bring in guests. But like, is that really evangelism? I would argue evangelism is, you know, a a meaningful, a person taking a meaningful next step to Jesus, particularly one who doesn't classify themself as a Christian. And more often than not, that happens in a interpersonal one-on-one relationship. That's just how I would classify evangelism. Discipleship, I think is quite frankly the same thing. And, um, those evangelism and discipleship used to all be one word, right? It was just telling people about Jesus and then making people more like Jesus so that they would eventually go multiply themselves and their lives into other people's lives. But we, we drew a line at the moment of conversion and we switched evangelism, um, as people who don't have a relationship with Jesus. And discipleship is people who do have a relationship with Jesus, but that's not what Warren was talking about, right?

Nick Clason (12:55):
But he was talking about reaching people and then actually growing them into a mature follower of Christ. So, um, you probably have a definition of what a disciple is at your church. Every church in America probably has some definition of what a disciple is at their church. It all is derived in some way, shape or form. Probably off of the great commission at least I would argue that it should be, because that was Jesus's very deliberate specific commands for us to go make disciples of all nations. That being said, I have a definition, we have a definition in our church about discipleship. So I wanted to explain what that is and then break down those three different elements of a disciple and talk through some hybrid ideas. Again, I'm not vouching for or saying this is successful, not successful, whatever. I'm simply just saying, if you look at the definition of a disciple, these are ways in which digital ministry and hybrid ministry can be supplemented and or utilized to help bring about mature, um, a mature follower of Christ.

Nick Clason (13:54):
So let's talk about that on the other side. Okay? So like I said, my church classifies and breaks down disciple, uh, we call it a three D disciple. Um, I creative, whatever I get it, um, wasn't mine. So not taking any credit for it or flack for it, just it is what it is. If you're a church, medium marketing manager, if you're a church, if you're a youth pastor, like you probably inherited something like this unless you're the lead pastor that came up with it. In most cases, if we're on church staff, we are experiencing these things and now we just have to figure out how to carry out the vision of where we work. That's just the reality of, of being in a position like this. So we have, um, a disciple who's devoted, developing and deployed. Okay? So devoted is simply learning how to work with God.

Nick Clason (14:40):
And I thought there are tons of hybrid options in that if we're trying to help teach someone how to walk with God, there is a, a really great interpersonal moment and element that can take place, especially if you have like a mentorship relationship. And quite frankly, you should, you should do that. You should be leaning into some sort of mentoring relationship, someone who's older than you, who's further along than you and can help take you to the next level. However, there are personal disciplines that I believe also need to take place. Bible reading, um, prayer, and I would argue, and I don't know that this is a widespread thought, but scripture memory and each of those three things, Bible reading, prayer, scripture, memory, I think there are ways in which you can lean into a digital option. Digital flashcards, digital fill in the blank. There's, there's an app I use, a bible memorization app I use for memorizing scripture, um, Bible reading and prayer, both in the YouVersion Bible app.

Nick Clason (15:37):
There are tools and like assets and parts and pieces within the YouVersion Bible app where I can read the Bible more robustly. I can read it with friends, I can do it in community, I can prayer, I can offer prayer requests. They have a daily like guided prayer moment. All those things I think are tools. And if your church has, has the money, has the way, the ability, the means, the resources to pull some of those things together and create an app or create resources, all the more power to you. If not, you can just point people towards some of these other resources, curate some of the good ones that help and have helped you grow in your faith and can help other people grow in their faith as they lean more into their devoted ness and their walk with God, right? Again, this is from my church's definition of a disciple, the second D.

Nick Clason (16:25):
So the first D is devoted, the second D is developing, so they're devoted to Christ to learn to walk with God. And then they're also growing, uh, talk about, uh, we, we use this phrase growing in the character and the competencies of Jesus. So more and more like Jesus as well as, um, doing more and more things like Jesus, one of the first, second or third John I can't remember, says, if you want to, um, follow Jesus, you need to learn to walk as he walked. That's the competencies part, right? Doing the same things, doing the things of Jesus. And so how can we help grow people to be more, um, have a better character, more like Jesus, um, and doing more of the things like Jesus. Um, I, I just actually shared in this exact seat with my students via video for a series coming up about a light bulb versus a laser.

Nick Clason (17:15):
Both of them are lights, but one is an intensified, focused and like very intentional light. And one is just illuminating the room. Both are light. One is one has incredible power. And I would say as you are developing into the character and into the competencies of Jesus, one of the ways to harness that is through relationships and through like direct accountability. Not just friendship, not just like small group, like surface level and maybe even a little deeper than surface level, but actual meaningful, like intentional relationships. Paul David Tripp has a, a quote where he says, you need to be intentionally ob protrusive in somebody's life. And that's what I mean by accountability. Can you accomplish that digitally? I don't think so. Um, there is an element of a one-on-one relationship, a need and need type of relationship. That being said, the accountability partner I have in my life lives 900 miles away from me.

Nick Clason (18:11):
And we talk every single week, once a week, 6:00 AM every Monday morning. And it's a, an expected phone call that's not in person, quote unquote. It's, it is a life on life relationship, but it's done using the means of technology. That being said, we went to college together and grew up together and have raised our kids together at times. And so like, there was definitely a life on life moment that brought us closer together that then allowed us to use technology to continue on in the relationship as opposed to just simply abandoning it, which is what often happens when distance takes place. The third one is deployed, which is simply the idea of being sent out, right? Jesus sent out the 12, then he sent out the, um, 72, and then the 72 that they reached, he, he sent all those out as well. So we saw within Jesus' life, four generations of multiplication.

Nick Clason (19:01):
How can we deploy people using technology and hybrid? Again, the more like you hone this, I think, and if you have an actual nomenclature for it and strategy around it, you can build infrastructures, websites, apps, eBooks, like all kinds of things to give people regardless of where they are. And if you've sent people out overseas, you can still put resources in their hands to help them as they are reaching people, reaching their neighborhoods, reaching their coworkers, having some of these like conversations, these Jesus, these evangelism, these discipleship conversations. I think what Warren is saying is like, there's a life on life moment. An aspect, an element that takes place where people grow. And I agree with that. And he's saying, can digital replace it? And again, I've said this before, but I think if we try to just create, if we, if we say that a Sunday morning sermon is the only place that discipleship happens, and then by recording it and live streaming it, that's our like hybrid or like our digital option, then no, I don't think that that's actually helping people become more developed in their character and competency of Jesus more devoted to him, more able to multiply themselves and send other people out and all the, like, just from a sermon being online, probably not, but a more robust tool, more robust resources that are out there I think can, can help people, right?

Nick Clason (20:28):
Like knowledge can be transferred from one person to another. An element of being devoted element of developing for sure things that are communicated clearly and concisely through that transfer of knowledge. I think those things can happen. Can life transformation happen in hybrid? I would say yes. I don't think it looks the way we think it looks, and I think it probably requires a pretty massive overhaul, um, to be able to do that. But I definitely think it's possible. And here's where the rub often happens. You have to have buy-in with the people who hold the money and write the checks and do those things to get some of those things up off the ground. Because without that, you're simply just like the social media guy trying to do all that through Instagram posts. And can it be done? I think so. Is it the most effective way?

Nick Clason (21:22):
Probably not. Probably not. Um, and so that's how, that's how I would classify it and that's how I would answer and respond to Warren's question about hybrid ministry. Yes, but with some infrastructure and some overhauling for sure. Well, hey, thanks everyone for sticking around, uh, for the duration of this entire episode. I hope you found it helpful. Go listen, like, subscribe to the Kerry Newh episode, especially that part about Warren Bird. Go subscribe to us on YouTube. Give us a, like, all that stuff helps us get found, indexed and seen by the people, um, out there on YouTube that are asking some of these same questions like, is digital discipleship even a possibility in today's world? And, um, 'cause I think it is, and I think that's a meaningful message as we move forward, especially into the next and younger generations, um, of our church members and even those people who have not yet discovered our church. Hit the link in the show notes again for full transcripts of this episode and every other episode that we have over at hybridministry.xyz, grab the Adobe Premier Pro Transitions, grab the free ebook, go like us on Instagrams, follow us on TikTok, follow us on YouTube. And until next time, and as always, we're helping make digital discipleship easy. Stay Hybrid!

🎙️ Unraveling Generation Alpha:
Generation Alpha, born between 2010 and 2025, is the first generation to be entirely immersed in the digital world from birth. These tech-savvy and highly connected individuals are growing up amidst unprecedented technological advancements, shaping their worldviews, values, and relationships in unique ways. Join us as we dissect the defining characteristics of Generation Alpha and explore how they differ from previous generations.

🧭 Navigating Future Ministry Challenges:
As Generation Alpha matures, pastors and church leaders must prepare for new ministry challenges and opportunities. How can the Church effectively communicate timeless truths to a generation that processes information differently? What strategies can we adopt to ensure that biblical values remain relevant in the fast-paced, technology-driven lives of Alpha kids? Nick share insights and experiences that shed light on these crucial questions.

💡 Embracing Innovation and Adaptability:
In this episode, we emphasize the importance of embracing innovation and adaptability in ministry. Discover how churches and faith communities worldwide are already leveraging technology to engage with Generation Alpha on digital platforms, fostering meaningful connections and nurturing their spiritual growth.

🌟 Building a Generation Alpha-Inclusive Ministry:
Join us as we explore practical tips and strategies for building a Generation Alpha-inclusive ministry that celebrates diversity and encourages genuine connections. From utilizing interactive multimedia content to designing age-appropriate digital discipleship programs, our experts share actionable advice to empower pastors and leaders in reaching and discipling the Alpha generation effectively.

🎧 Tune in to the Hybrid Ministry Podcast and join the conversation on navigating ministry in the era of Generation Alpha. Don't miss this opportunity to equip yourself with the insights and tools needed to effectively minister to the next generation of faith pioneers.

🌐 For more resources, articles, and discussions on ministry in the digital age, visit our website at HybridMinistry.xyz

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🗒️ SHOWNOTES
http://www.hybridministry.xyz/057

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⏱️TIMECODES
00:00-02:30 Intro
02:30-07:25 Meet Generation Alpha - Who are they? When were they born? What do we know?
07:25-10:38 Three Interesting Trends about Generation Alpha
10:38-18:06 How Generation Alpha will shape the church in the Future
18:06-19:00 Outro

TRANSCRIPT
Nick Clason (00:00):

Nick Clason (00:07):
Well, hello everybody and welcome back to another episode of the Hybrid Ministry Show. I am your host, Nick Clason, thrilled, excited, pumped, and Jack to be with you. Another episode in the Cross Creek Mug. Listen, I'm gonna take this rig back to my house at some point in time, but I brought this in, um, 'cause I did those Adobe and Photoshop episodes and, um, that was a little bit for me, selfish and two-pronged. Um, but for those of you not watching, I'm in my office, uh, drinking some coffee this morning. Um, freshly roasted Burundi from Burundi. Did it on my back patio last night. Didn't get the chaff off as much as I would've wanted to. So I'm gonna be working on that here in the future. Uh, in this episode, we are going to be talking about all things generation Alpha. Now listen, we've been talking Gen Z a lot, but we are gonna, um, shift the conversation even younger because Gen Alpha is currently, um, thought to have been born between 2010 and 2025, meaning they're not even born all the way yet, .

Nick Clason (01:17):
And so we're gonna talk at them, we're gonna talk about them a little bit. There's a few statistics and things that are interesting about them, but they're not fully formed and they're not fully developed yet. And so these are just a lot of things that may just be conjecture, things that we're looking at ahead in the future, curious about. So join me as we dive into that, and here's why, because I think that the younger generations tend to formulate and bring about formation to the older generations and the older demographics. So as always, you can head to the link in the show notes, http://www.hybridministry.xyz/057 for full transcripts. It's also gonna have a link to our YouTube channel where you can subscribe, like rate review, a rating or review in the purple podcast app would be amazing. We are on Instagram, we are on TikTok, we are all the places. And Link in the show notes will have your chance for a 100% completely free ebook, as well as the video transitions that you can get in Adobe Premier Pro. Without any further ado, let's dive into why we need to look at and learn from Generation Alpha for the future of the church. Here we go.

Nick Clason (02:30):
All right, so Generation Alpha, that is a new demographic younger than Generation Z, right? We had Generation X, generation Y, which we have nicknamed and colloquially, colloquially called the millennials, and then Generation Z. What do you do after Z? Well, you go back to the beginning. So now we're in Generation Alpha. They may have a new name, they may have something, um, that they're called in the future, but for right now, we are referring to them as generation alpha. So right now, I am a youth pastor. If you're not in youth ministry, you may feel like this isn't even a thing that is worth worrying about, but just for some frame of reference and context, right now is actually a really clear year in my mind because middle schoolers are generation alpha and, um, high schoolers are Generation Z. That line, it's an arbitrary line that you draw right between like generations, but most researchers would draw that line, like I said, 2010.

Nick Clason (03:28):
So you do a little bit of quick math that makes it like a 13 year old. So you're looking at sixth grade, seventh grade, maybe some eighth graders, and then ninth grade and on up. They are younger. But similarly to look at the gap between Gen Z and millennials, we called them, um, some people have called them millennials because they're zrs, but they're also millennials. So they got kind of attributes of both generations. The same thing is gonna be true of the lines, the edges of these arbitrary drawings. Couple of things that are worth noting that I wanna share with you. Um, I got, uh, I looked at an article from exploding topics.com/blog/generation alpha stats. I'll drop the link to that for y'all in the show notes. Make sure you go check that out. Most of this stuff comes from there, but they have it linked to deeper research where they got their information from.

Nick Clason (04:17):
So go ahead, check those things out. But children between ages of eight and 12, okay? So that's upper elementary, lower middle spend on average four hours and 44 minutes in front of screens every single day. Just think about that for a minute. Four hours and 44 minutes. And while you may be listening to this and thinking, man, that's crazy, that's a lot. How much time are you spending in front of a screen every single day? I mean, right here is my office, I'm sitting in front of a screen, I have another screen, I have my phone, I'm, I'm in front of this eight hours a day, right? Not to mention TVs, not to mention phones, but what really struck this cord for me, what was really making me want to dive into this a little bit more is this the actual screen itself. So we were on vacation last week.

Nick Clason (05:03):
We were in Florida and we had a tv, just like every room in the America on vacation in hotels or condos has a a tv, right? And there was a problem with the TV though, because the TV only had basic cable. My kids don't understand basic cable, so they would wanna watch TV and they would ask to watch a certain show, and I'd say, bro, I I can't get that show on the TV for you. I can't make Phineas and Ferb be what they play. I don't even know if Disney Channel does Phineas and Ferb anymore. It was mostly big city Greens is what was on. And so instead, my kids as opposed to being like, oh, okay, like they didn't get it. They're like, well, okay, can we watch Phineas and Ferb on your iPad? So I have a seven year old and a four year old.

Nick Clason (05:45):
And so one of them adopted my iPad and one of them adopted my wife's iPad. One of them watched Pho and Ferb, one of them watched Mickey Mouse Funhouse. Meanwhile, in the master bedroom where my wife and I were staying the TV in there, I couldn't get it work. And I had, I host a podcast about hybrid ministry, so you'd think I of all people should be able to get this thing to work when I couldn't. My wife was like, well, it's a lost cause. So since I couldn't, the two of us also were just like on our phones, right? Like, um, at the time of the vacation and, and you know, we're gonna be a month in advance or so on this, uh, when I actually post. But, uh, it was n b a free agency. So I was like, checking woe notifications if you know, you know, Sean's notifications from the Athletic and just watching like, uh, YouTube and podcasts and things like that as they're, you know, analyzing the Fred Van Veit signing in Houston and Dylan Brooks and in Houston, and you know, Chris Middleton back to The Bucks and all these things, right?

Nick Clason (06:34):
So I'm just watching it on my phone. My wife's, you know, she's over there on reels. That's her normal anyway, she's not a big like TV person. She's more like scroll some reels, you know, for her like entertainment, so to speak. So the four of us, my, my wife and I, and my two kids, all of us were on screens, but not the biggest screen, not the TV screen. And I think I, to me, it was like just this eye-opening moment. First of all, I can't even go on vacation without thinking about this podcast, right? But it was this kinda like eye-opening moment, like, man, none of us are watching tv. We're all just on smaller screens. What does this mean? So it caused me to just start asking some questions about the younger generation, um, gen Alpha. I think that these are gonna be related to Generation Z as well.

Nick Clason (07:16):
Uh, so I wanna share with y'all a couple of stats. So let's go ahead and take a minute, dive into what some of these, um, fascinating generation Alpha stats are. Let's go. All right, so like I said, according to the exploring topics.com blog, here are some of the stats from Generation Alpha. 47% of Gen Alpha say that they prefer to split their free time between screen time and being outdoors. 47%. So right about half prefer screen time and outdoors. And I think, like if I were to inspect that and ask some questions about it a little bit, really what I'm saying is like, indoors equals screen time and outdoors equals outdoors, which is, you know, normal. The question is like, is there, are there things inside that Gen Alpha are navigating, using, spending time on that are not screen based? The next thing I wanna show you is it says Gen Alpha use an average of 4.2 streaming services.

Nick Clason (08:13):
That's Gen Alpha. Frankly, I use Disney plus, I use Discovery Plus I use Netflix. Sometimes I use Prime, sometimes I use Hulu. Sometimes I stream off the E S P N app. Sometimes I use like Sling. I mean, I'm up to seven. So while you were like, man, that might sound like a lot. I, I don't think it actually sounds like a lot at all. I have tons of different streaming services, and quite frankly, I've cut the cord with cable years ago, and every time I go on vacation, I'm reminded like, yeah, I don't want cable. Like, that's not what I want, right? Like, I enjoy my streaming services, part of the problem. Now, streaming services, you add all the costs together just as much as cable or more. And so I'm like, I don't know if this is actually saving me any money. 'cause there's enough platforms out there now that they're diversified across all of 'em, you know?

Nick Clason (08:58):
Um, additionally, 59% of gen alphas say that watching TV and movies is their favorite weekend activity. 50% name it as their favorite afterschool activity. And 70% of eight to 11 year olds consider TV and movies to be among their favorite activities. So just think about that. Screen time, gen Z, all that stuff is part of what, um, how they're spending their time on screens. It is wild. And lastly, 38% of gen alpha gamers want a video game that allowed them to build or create. And I think there's something there talking about Minecraft, talking about Roblox types of games. They like to be contributors and creators to the moment, not just passive consumers. You know, my kids, they watch, um, some YouTube, uh, we have YouTube kids, we try to have all the blocks that we can keep 'em safe out there on the internet. But the, my son has recently gotten into watching people play video games.

Nick Clason (09:59):
And I'm like, bro, why don't you play a video game yourself? So this weekend I downloaded Mario Kart so that we could have some family Mario Kar battles, which has been pretty fun. Uh, but it's kinda like my kids, uh, seven and four year old, it's kind of their first time ever playing, um, video games, right? And so, um, they're now getting to experience what it's actually like to, to play it. And then I got home from church yesterday and man, they, they had been playing it for hours up to that point. So pretty fun. Um, pretty exciting times. But what does all this stuff mean? So let's dive in to talk about some big ideas and pictures of what this might mean for the church going forward. All right? So let's talk about what this might mean for the idea of the future church.

Nick Clason (10:43):
So philosophically speaking, as you're listening to this, you might be thinking Gen Alpha, I don't have to care about that. I don't have to worry about that. I'm not in youth ministry. And while that may be true, um, because even some of these kids aren't even born yet, right? Uh, gen Alpha, the lines I've read are 2010 to 2025. Birth years. We're in 2023 at the time of this recording. So there's still two more years of gen alphas to be born, to be popping out people, right? So, , what does this mean? You might be thinking, and here's here's why I think this matters, because philosophically, churches and cultures tend to gravitate towards youth. Watch any movie on Hollywood, watch any movie on tv like you're going, the the main character you're going to find is somebody who is young. And so younger generations tend to kind of carry the weight and carry the day as it pertains to culture and culture.

Nick Clason (11:32):
Building youth shapes culture. So if youth shapes culture, then we need to look at what the youth and what the younger people are doing, um, gravitating towards what the trends are, and then what this might mean for us as a church going forward. Because here's what's gonna happen. If not, we're going to become less relevant. We're gonna become more antiquated. And if we are not because we're trying to attract people and, and make Jesus attractive, but because we're trying to be, as Paul said, I, I become a Jew for, for Jews, a Greek for Greeks to, so that I may win some in accordance and for sake of the gospel. And so that's what we're gonna do. Uh, we're going to, um, try and meet people and reach people where they are, where they are spending their time. So philosophically speaking, culture tends to trend younger. So what does that mean? And what are some of the things that we can just right now look at, grab and move forward? Let's go ahead, take a look at that.

Nick Clason (12:32):
So practically speaking, I have three practical ideas for churches. So the first thing is make things optimized for your phone. Listen, if your website is already not optimized for a phone, like you need to probably stop listening to this right now and go make that happen asap. That is a very crucial and very important part of ministry, I think in, uh, 2023 and beyond. Also, what are ways in which you can invade the phone, not in a creepy way, but in a meaningful way to generations that are not at church in the moment, right? So like both, how can they engage with the at church? So one of my favorite things is the YouVersion, um, bible app, the notes section where they can take notes, follow along, but also like Bible reading plans, short form video, um, short, short form video based content pieces for social media, TikTok, reel shorts, um, that are both funny, fun, relevant and, um, biblical and things that are gonna help them like grow more, uh, as a disciple and as a follower of Jesus.

Nick Clason (13:35):
So both, what can you do for phones in person and what can you do for phones, um, while they're not there. The other thing I think that is worthwhile is as much screen time as people are spending, how can we as a church offer for them moments not on screens at church. So like, we most recently went to summer camp a couple weeks ago and we offered and challenged our students to adopt the low sell slash no sell challenge. And we rewarded students who took part in that because we thought they would get more outta camp if they were on their phones less as opposed to more. But here's the thing, we didn't just do a blanket no cell phone policy because kids use their phones for alarms. Kids use their phones for cameras, kids use their phones for all kinds of different things. And quite frankly, so do you, and so do I like my phone is my g p s my phone is my daytimer, my phone is my like, you know, I got a question.

Nick Clason (14:29):
Look it up. Like my phone is, is a lot of things to me. And I think that's part of the problem is we a lot of times equate screen time to just simply social media when in the reality screen time is a lot of things. Like when I travel, my screen time goes through the roof, not 'cause I'm spending more time on my phones at my vacation destination, but because I'm traveling and I got my Maps app open the whole time and my screen is counting that against me. The second thing is, can you incorporate video games? Students are spending more and more time on video games. So both that could be like in your environment, especially if you're a youth pastor, that's not a foreign idea. It's, it's been around for years. Honestly. I grew up in a ministry that had video games offered to me as a teenager, but can you also, um, maybe incorporate video games in things like Twitch streams or YouTube gaming, like those types of things.

Nick Clason (15:17):
And can you use that to both, um, let students watch and, and view and participate in from a passive view perspective and or can you flip that script and give them opportunities, platforms, times to come in stream? Things like, can you find a way to incorporate that into your ministry to create a wider pool and a wider reach? Because just think about this. If you invite someone into to stream on one of your platforms, they're gonna cross promote that. They're gonna tell their friends that they're online, like all kinds of fun stuff like that. So, so start thinking and asking yourself, are there ways to incorporate video games? That's one of the ways that Gen Alpha is using, especially things like Minecraft and Roblox. One of the things that I thought was awesome during c o we built a dedicated for our own student ministry Minecraft server, and it was really cool.

Nick Clason (16:08):
Like it was a really cool thing. Um, you know, covid and, and you know, our leaders not really getting it and getting into it helped it, you know, not have as much traction as I think it could have maybe should have. Um, but, but things like that are so cool, so niche. Are there ways to utilize that for the advancement, um, of your student ministry culture, advancement of the name of Jesus, the gospel, all those types of things I think worth que are, are worth questioning. And the third thing is I think we need to start discipling students through it and not away from it. If you're anything like me, you've grown up in, you know, early nineties, uh, mid two thousands almost all of the things were like challenging students to, to lay things aside, like turn your phone into a dumb phone, all these things.

Nick Clason (16:53):
And I think those are good things. I think if you, if you feel so inclined to do that personally, then you should do that. But I think, like I said, phones are not going anywhere, right? Um, but how do we help disciple people through it? Um, because they have it, right? Like, I'll just say this as a parent, I am going to hold off on getting my kids a phone for as long as humanly possible. I say that right now when they're seven and four. I can't tell you what it's gonna be like in five years or seven years and where they're at with that, but I don't want them to have a phone. 'cause there are dangers on there that pornography addiction, things like that all can stem from a simple device in your pocket. That being said, many, many of our people have them. So how do we help navigate them through it? How do we help create within them good digital hygiene, um, good practices to navigating having a phone and living in the worldwide web in the 21st century and using it for good and using it to reach people for the gospel. So I think that's a shift that the church needs to start moving towards is less, Hey, cut it off, go cold Turkey instead. Hey, you have it, but with it, here's how you can use it.

Nick Clason (18:07):
Well, hey everyone, thanks so much for sticking around to the end of this episode. I hope you found it helpful. As always, link in the show notes for transcripts, links to the YouTube video if you wanna watch that. And TikTok, Instagram, YouTube shorts, all those things go like, follow, subscribe, uh, all the places. Um, we love hanging out with y'all. If you have a question, head to our website, http://www.hybridministry.xyz and send us a question. We would love to answer it here on the pod at some point in the future. And don't forget, we got a couple freebies in the show notes as well. So go to the show notes. That is going to be your one stop shop for everything that you need. And don't forget, and as always, stay hybrid.

Hang out on TikTok:
https://www.tiktok.com/@clasonnick

ShowNotes & Transcripts:
http://www.hybridministry.xyz/054

Instagram:
http://www.instagram.com/hybridministry

FREEBIES
FREE Animation Effects for Adobe Premiere Pro:
https://share.hsforms.com/1VL1oWwWwQ82PLwsPFkPITgnumis

FREE E-Book:
https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/ebook

SHOWNOTES
Why should churches even care about Digital Ministry in 2023?
https://www.hybridministry.xyz/031
VIDEO: Why should churches even care about Digital Ministry in 2023?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9rdO5laIUM
VIDEO: Have I already Ruined My Church's TikTok Account?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxBn-p9O-eg
BARNA EBOOK:
https://shop.barna.com/products/6-questions-about-the-future-of-the-hybrid-church-experience
Episode 001:
https://www.hybridministry.xyz/001
BRACKET: https://www.downloadyouthministry.com/p/world%27s-greatest-donut/games/food-8745.htmlBRACKET
BRACKET #2: https://www.downloadyouthministry.com/p/the-big-game-food-bracket/winter/the-big-game-8544.html

TIMECODES
00:00-02:46 Intro
02:46-06:43 A Brief One-Year History
06:43-10:03 Year One Podcast Stats
10:03-19:27 What is Hybrid Ministry?
19:27-20:41 Outro

TRANSCRIPT
Nick Clason (00:02):
Hey everyone. Welcome back to another episode of the Hybrid Ministry Show. I am your host, as always, Nick Clason sipping my coffee in my office today out of my, uh, church branded Yeti. I will say this, though, not a big Yeti fan as a coffee connoisseur because the metallic taste of it overrides the notes of coffee. So honestly, I would prefer just drinking out of like one of these types of mugs. So you're not on YouTube, you're not seeing all this. You are missing out big time, not probably really, but we are gonna take a little bit of a break. The last two episodes were, uh, video editing episodes. The, the episode after this one will be a Photoshop specific episode. But the reason that we're taking a little break is because our pilot episode on July 19th, um, and our episode one on July 21st was exactly one year ago from the day that this episode drops, which is July 20th.

Nick Clason (01:04):
So in this episode, we are just going to do, uh, talk about what is hybrid ministry like, the whole basis, the whole, like per the whole name of this podcast is named Hybrid ministry. What is it? Where did it come from? Why do we start this podcast? Do a little year in review, sort of deal. So that's what's on the docket for today. Hey, listen, if you are new here or if you are just finding us out, wanna let you know in the show notes. You can find links to YouTube, links to our website, hybrid ministry.xyz. Uh, this will be episode 55. Every single episode will have a link to our episode page, which has a full transcript. That's something that we provide for you all for a hundred percent free. So go check that out. Also, just follow us on social. We're on Instagram, we're on YouTube, and we are on TikTok.

Nick Clason (01:48):
All the links to those in the show notes, because some of those are my personal account at Clay and Nick. Others of those are ministry based accounts, a hybrid ministry. It's one of those too as an option, but your show notes will have everything that you need. In addition to that, we have a couple freebies right now. We have our free ebook, um, helping you download and get TikTok going completely from scratch. And then we also have free Adobe, uh, pro, uh, transitions that you can use to animate text, to animate videos, um, bounce in like your typical YouTube thing. So go grab those in the show notes and we would love it if you would give us a rating or review or subscribe or a, like, all those things help us get found in search so that more people can learn and know about the difference and the ministry that hybrid is going to make in their world and in their ministry.

Nick Clason (02:39):
So, without any further ado, let's jump in to the one year celebration episode. Glad to have y'all here. So, like I said, today is the day that this episode drops is July 20th. July 20th is the one year anniversary. You know, when I started this podcast, I had a cohost, his name is Matt, um, and Matt is, uh, one of the smartest marketing brains I've ever met. He used to work for, dare to Share if you're in the ministry world, you've probably heard that before. Uh, they're youth ministry, evangelism centric organization. Then he came to work at the same church that I was working at in Chicago land area. And when we were both working in Chicago land, we started this podcast together. Both of us within the first probably like 10 episodes, um, transitioned to different roles for, for different reasons. And one reason or another, um, I ended up here in dfw, Dallas, Fort Worth, Texas area.

Nick Clason (03:30):
Matt went back out to Colorado, which is home, um, working for a non-church non ministry organization. And because of that, his his ability to record podcasts fell by the wayside. And I became a one man band. And I remember I was moving here, moving to Dallas on the road somewhere in Nowheresville, Oklahoma. And I turned on Colin Cowherd cause I was like, that dude can talk for three hours by himself. And I found that the hardest thing to do. My first episode I recorded it was like 14 minutes. And I was like, how in the world am I gonna do a podcast by myself? Like, this is gonna be mentally exhausting and in a way it is. Don't get me wrong. Um, so that's why I I recruited a co-host to start cuz it's a lot easier to just have a conversation and talk. That being said, I started listening to Colin Coward cuz I saw the writing a little bit on the wall, and I was like, how is he doing this?

Nick Clason (04:24):
What are his kind of tips and tactics? So I tried to lean in and learn some of those things so that if my co-host fell by the wayside, I would still be able to give y'all a podcast. And, uh, I think around episode 11 or 12, I started doing them by myself. And then, um, I would still reference Matt as, you know, a like member of the podcast, but eventually I just stopped and it just became this, the Solo Nick Clason show. So here you go. If you're, if you're new and you want to go back to some of those early episodes, you will hear another voice that is my good friend Matt Johnson. Still great friends, just, you know, he doesn't have time to to record. He's a new dad, new life out in Colorado, just like we're building a new life here in Dallas, Texas area.

Nick Clason (05:08):
And so, um, and I never missed a week, um, from when I started until now. We've had a lot of life happen. We moved, um, my wife's mom passed away, my mother-in-law. Um, we went back, you know, had to drive a thousand miles back overnight to get there. Um, when that happened, it wasn't, um, emergent, but it also wasn't totally on the radar when we moved here. One of the reasons we moved here was hoping that she could come live with us, um, you know, fighting her cancer diagnosis. Um, but some things progressed faster than we anticipated. And, and all that happened and I started a new job and I'm getting to know a new church and I'm getting, you know, my kids enrolled in a new school. So a lot of new for us. Um, but thank you for being along on the ride with me because in my new role, I am focusing a lot on digital integration and hybrid ministry.

Nick Clason (06:00):
And this podcast is a cathartic outlet for me to talk about what I'm doing. In a lot of episodes, I've told you, here's what I'm doing right now, here's how it's going, and here's the adjustments that I'm making. And while I would be doing those things internally in my head, forcing myself to sit down and explain it to an audience has just been so helpful. And so thank y'all for being along the ride with me. Like I, I've told you before, I always want this to be a place where I can just be open and honest. So that is a little bit of just kinda like the brief one year history of where we are. Um, and in, in an attempt to continue to look back just a little bit, I want to give you guys a couple of recap type stats. So let's dive into this.

Nick Clason (06:44):
All right. So to recap, um, back in December, December was our best downloaded month to date. But then January beat December and then February, beat January and then March, beat February. So they just kept kind of building on itself and then may came and may beat all of those. April took a little bit of a, uh, backseat, um, or I'm sorry, may took a little bit of a backseat to April. Um, April was still the highest. So it, it was like a stair-stepping in December, January, February, March, April, may took a little dip. And then now, uh, I'm recording this in June. Um, it will drop in July and so, um, July might be completely different, but June has far surpassed every month we've ever even had. So to those of y'all who are new, those of y'all who are downloading us on a regular basis, welcome, glad to have you, glad to see you.

Nick Clason (07:35):
It's exciting to be along on the journey. Um, glad to have you with us. The highest downloaded episode ever in the history of this podcast is episode 31. I'll drop a link to that in the show notes if you wanna go back and listen to it. But we are gonna do just a little bit of a recap of that here in this episode. The episode's titled, why Should Churches Even Care About Digital Ministry in 20, I think I probably recorded it in 2023 or 2022, I should say. So I probably said, why should churches care about digital ministry in 2022? Um, consequently, and I don't think that this has any correlation, but consequently, that was also our very first episode that we started posting full, um, video episodes on YouTube as well. So you can go check out my very first YouTube video if you wanna laugh and see how bad it is, I think, and hope we've gotten better.

Nick Clason (08:23):
But, um, you know, no promises. I'm not like a professional YouTube editor. Uh, I'm a youth pastor, so I'm doing this all in the margins, all in my spare time. And so, um, there could be more on the horizon, you know? Um, but right now it's just kinda, uh, slugging it out. That does not count. However, our very first episode on YouTube, which was the, have I already ruined my church's TikTok account. It's a video and podcast joint episode that I posted, uh, where we, we released the free ebook, um, with a link to that and the show notes. And so, um, that was literally walking through step-by-step nerding out on how to post a video on your cell phone using the TikTok TikTok app. Now, I will give a caveat and a disclaimer. I'll drop the episode link to that as well in the show notes, but I wanna let you know that I posted that in December.

Nick Clason (09:12):
And so just like any sort of tech things have changed. And so it may not even be a hundred percent relevant. The the overall premise is right, like a lot of TikTok is the same, but there are still some things that have shifted and even personally some strategy things on my end that have shifted as well. So think you all for being along on the journey. Those are, um, just some kind of recaps. This is our, like I said, our one year anniversary episode. But without any further ado, this is really what I want to get into is I wanna like bring everyone, y'all on the audience level back to the roots of why we do what we do and what this is what, where this all started from. So without any further ado, let's answer this question. What is hybrid ministry? Okay, what is high ministry?

Nick Clason (10:06):
So back in July last year when we launched podcasts, this idea had been rolling around in my brain for a couple months and, um, I was kicking around ideas of names. The name I settled on was hybrid. I also liked integration. Um, but, but hybrid was really like the one that I thought was really cool. Well, lo and behold, after I decided that name, Barna released an ebook about the future of the hybrid church. And so almost at the same time I launched a podcast or at least started recording bef before I had a few episodes kind of in the hopper before we ever went fully live. Um, and then Barna also released their ebook 40 or some, some, I can't remember. I'll drop the link to the Barna ebook in, in the show notes. It's behind a paywall, but it's worth it. It's a, it's a little over a year old now at this point, but I still go back to and pull a lot of data from it cuz what they're asking, coming out of the heels of C O V I D, they're asking what do millennials and Gen Z, what are they looking for in church?

Nick Clason (11:10):
Uh, another thing I've done in the last year is I went through a Gen Z Barna CoLab thing. Um, it was a six session zoom thing where they shared some findings about Gen Z, which they are the future generation of our church and our church ministry. And so it's important, I think to, to inspect what these generations are saying. And so, um, 9%, only 9% of churched Christians back when this, um, hybrid ebook dropped 9% of church Christians, um, wanted a solely digital church option. Okay? And so I think my question, and I remember I had Matt on here, was like, well, well then why are we even exploring this as digital ministry? Aren't we on the other side of covid? Shouldn't we go back to what we remember and how things were? The difference was one third of them expressed that some sort of, um, hybrid option would suit them well, and that was only in those that they pulled and that was only in those old enough to be pulled.

Nick Clason (12:19):
So 18 and older at the time. All right, meanwhile, millennials and Gen Z, if you take out just that kind of sub subset of of age demographic, take out some of the older church attenders that were also pulled in this ebook. Millennials and Gen Z are ju this is, this one was the one that got me and this is the one that like really thrust me into starting this podcast. Millennials and Gen Z are just as likely to choose a hybrid option as they are a physical option at 40% for millennials and 42% for Generation Z. So they are just as likely just as interested in a hybrid option as they are in a physical option. And I hear you on the other end, but wait, it's not the same. We all saw it in Covid and yes, that's true. And this was one of the conversations that me and Matt had way early on, and it's that this churches in Covid tried to replicate an in-person experience and a digital option.

Nick Clason (13:16):
And a physical option should be two uniquely different experiences. I hear you again, but wait, I don't have time to produce that and I get that it's challenging for sure. I'm on a student ministry staff of three, soon to be four. We're about to have a year long resident who I've worked with before. So we have a little bit of a history, know what he can bring to the table. All that to be said, I dedicate, I don't know, probably 75% or more of my job responsibilities to digital integration and hybrid ministry. There's more that I wish and want to be able to do, but I, I also don't have the time crunch. But what I say is on your staffing level and on your staffing side, it's really important to make sure that you give someone proper allocation of funds and time, ability to, uh, to go this direction because the, the younger that generations are, the more that this is going to be necessary.

Nick Clason (14:14):
And we're not trying to replace the physical. That's my whole point. That's where the word hybrid comes from. We're not trying to replace the physical, we're trying to integrate digital with physical, right? One of my favorite examples of it in our student ministry is we'll do these like two or three times a year. We'll do these, uh, brackets where we pit two things against each other and, and they vote and the winner goes on to the next round and they face off against the winner of another matchup. And so we'll come up with kind of these like arbitrary seatings or whatever. Um, I'll drop a couple links in the show notes cuz I've done a few of these and I've posted 'em on like download youth ministry, so you can grab it. We've got like world's greatest or um, uh, big game day bracket food challenge.

Nick Clason (14:55):
So you're picking like the food that you're gonna have at like your Super Bowl party. But that's a great example of a hybrid option because all of the voting takes place online on a website or, or in our case, a lot of times on Instagram, but in person it's also like playing it itself out. So this last year we did serial madness in March, and so we pitted serial matchups against each other. And so we had all the, the matchups up on a big, uh, window that we have with like a bracket taped out. And then we cut out the front of the serial boxes and po uh, pasted like a seed number on each of them. And then as they would win online, we'd move them into our space. So the students would walk in, they'd see the results, but then on Wednesday nights we have these garage door, uh, like bay type things.

Nick Clason (15:42):
And so we have eight different bays. And so that's eight different matchups for a round of 16. And the base came up and every individual matchup, uh, of cereal was in the base. So they could go in, they could grab the one seed versus 16 seed, put a little milk in it and eat it. That's an example of taking a digital expression, a digital like moment and means of something and bringing it in to make it hybrid with your in-person. Okay, back in the first episode, we talked about digital openness. And so I just wanna rattle off for you some of these, um, findings from, from the first book. So church adults defined as having high digital openness. Number one, they see the value of attending at least an online service. Number two, they think that churches should use digital resources for spiritual formation slash discipleship purposes.

Nick Clason (16:33):
Post pandemic, they think that churches, uh, should use digital resources for gathering their people to together after the pandemic. They say that either hybrids, so both digital and physical or primarily digital gatherings for church will best fit their lifestyle after the pandemic. And number five, they're open to attending new kinds of online gatherings that are unfamiliar. What are mold breaking? So these are people that are classified as digitally open. Furthermore, of these options, these were the options that they said would, um, suit them in a hybrid sort of format. So teaching and preaching one-on-one prayer, small groups, worship, prayer, visitation, confession, children's ministry, youth ministry, adult ministry. Those were, um, highest percentage down to lowest percentage in a cascading list. The thing that was the number one thing was teaching and preaching. So here's the thing, churches have gathered together to preach and hear the word, and that's, that's valuable and scriptural.

Nick Clason (17:34):
That being said, um, I, I can learn just as well. Um, whether I'm sitting my butt in a, a seat looking ahead, listening to a pastor as I can, listening to him on the podcast, what can't be reproduced, what can't be replicated in my own experience is praise and worship. Which again, I think that there may be a moment for, uh, figuring out how this works for the next generation in a non, uh, like physical environment. Not replacing it, but supplementing it. But the thing that can't be replaced for me is community one-on-one relationships, like authentic community with other believers. And some of those things can be done digitally. Zoom groups. We all saw that it leaves something to be desired. I agree if that's what you're saying to me on the other side of this camera. However, all that to be said, like the, the teaching pieces can be something that we can offer to people.

Nick Clason (18:27):
It's the number one, it was the number one rated thing for hybrid options, the delivery of content. CS Lewis has a quote that says, this says theology is all the more important today because there are so many messages being delivered to the home that you need to determine what is actually true. So you can go into one of these mediums and you can present the word, you can give theology, you can teach people theology in podcast form, YouTube videos, short form videos. Lewis made this quote in the 1950s and it rings all the more true today. That's the crazy thing, right? Is like what he said back in the fifties still brings true almost 80 years later. So because there's so many messages coming into the home, we need to help teach people what the Bible says. So I say all that to say, and I give you all of that as just a reminder that this is why this matters.

Nick Clason (19:22):
Hybrid ministry matters as an option for churches moving forward. And so, um, I just wanted to give a quick reminder. I just wanted to share it with y'all about, um, why we do what we do, where this whole thing comes from and what the purpose of it all is. Thanks for hanging out. Excited to have you with us. Don't forget link in the show notes. If you want to, uh, go follow us on YouTube. If you want to grab either of those freebies, uh, downloads, we're gonna be starting here in this next year. We're gonna be starting, um, getting our email newsletter going. And so subscribe in and grabbing the ebook or the, um, free transitions for Adobe Premiere Pro. Either one of those will lock you into our email newsletter. We're gonna start sending some stuff out occasionally. And so one, make sure that you don't miss that. Hey, if you subscribe to this, you will get this automatically downloaded into your podcast catcher every single Thursday morning at 4:00 AM So if you're in ministry and you have a Wednesday night deal, you wake up, you get to hear this the next morning after your ministry night. Hopefully it's just a, a positive encouraging, maybe even sometimes challenging refresher for you. Uh, so we would welcome that and love to have you join us in that way. But don't forget, and as always, stay hybrid.

Show Notes & Transcripts: http://www.hybridministry.xyz/044
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RECENT GEN Z STATS
*GEN Z *
70% are spiritually open

TRAITS
Correct
6% Teens
8% All Gen Z
9% Young Adults
Knowledgeable
16% Teens
21% All Gen Z
24% Young Adults
Being Honest
41% Teens
32% All Gen Z
25% Young Adults
Being Open to New Ideas
29% Teens
28% All Gen Z
28% Young Adults
Being Curious
7% Teens
11% All Gen Z
13% Young Adults

51% HAPPINESS IS VERY IMPORTANT
Happiness Looks Like
43% Success
23% Education
20% Family
8% Spiritual
6% Health

TIMECODES
00:00-02:46 Intro
02:46-06:32 A BeReal Generation vs. an Instagram Generation
06:32-11:37 The Latest Gen Z Statistics
11:37-18:52 Church & Workplace Implications of these Cultural Trends and Shifts
18:52-21:49 Gen Z Still Likes Jesus, just not our Church
21:49-22:44 Outro

TRANSCRIPT
Nick Clason (00:00):
Hey, what is up everybody? Welcome back to another episode of the Hybrid Ministry Show. I am your host, Nick Clason, excited to be with you. And in this episode, we are going to talk about the workplace gap and generational gap between older generations and younger generations, specifically generation Z and those that have come before them. And also, I want to pull out some principles that I think might be true about what that means for you and your local church and how they're the, the gap is causing a riff in potentially church attendance. But before we do, I just want to say thanks for being here. If you're on YouTube, hit that subscribe and notification button, that like button. If you're on TikTok, give us a follow. And if you are just listening in your podcast catcher, I wanna let you know that you can head to hybridministry.xyz for all of your podcast needs, including show notes and transcripts.

Nick Clason (01:00):
We will link all of the notes to everything, uh, all the links, everything that we're talking about. And, uh, all of the, uh, transcript is there for you, 100% completely free of charge. We also wanna let you know that LinkedIn, the show notes, both on YouTube and in your podcast, our free ebook, have I already ruined my church's TikTok account. That will be available for you. Again, free of charge. Just hit that subscribe button and sign up for that email list. We'd love to give that to you as a free gift and our token of appreciation. Uh, and also, without any further ado, if you are able, willing, or, uh, have any sort of interest in letting us know, this would be great. We would love a five star rating or review that would really help us out, that would help us get index in the search for all these things on podcast.

Nick Clason (01:47):
All those things matter, and they're just, they would just be a small token of appreciation from you to us for all that we do. Um, but again, we are just thankful and thrilled to be here. So without any further ado, let's dive into the workplace generation gap conundrum. Hey, what's up, hybrid ministry fam, thanks for watching this or listening to this. Hey, I just wanna drop a quick note and let you know about halfway through, uh, the audio recording. Somehow my audio got corrupted. You'll notice a drastic drop off in quality some way through. Sorry about that. You're still gonna be able to hear it cuz I was recording it on my phone just like I'm doing this little announcement right here, right now. So this'll be able to hear it. It's just not the best, it's not our favorite quality level. We'll get it back, you know, we'll figured out the issue.

Nick Clason (02:40):
Um, but just wanna give you that quick disclaimer. Heads up. Hope you still enjoy the rest of the episode. So if you have been paying any bit of attention recently, you know that the social trends have been shifting. We all know that TikTok has grown in immense popularity. All of what Congress and the US is trying to do with it, it's grown in immense popularity. So much so that some of our more, um, legacy platforms like Facebook and Instagram have adopted many of the AI features that are available in TikTok. But another trend that I've noticed recently, uh, is the trend of the, the social media app. B real bre has been, uh, launched recently, um, within a year or so I would say. And Gen Z and current teenagers have gone crazy for it, at least in my anecdotal experience. And they're using it.

Nick Clason (03:37):
And if you don't know what B Real is, it's basically an app that one time a day says it's time to be real. But they, uh, you know, you can, you can, it has like dual meaning like cuz BRE is also another thing that you use in like film or whatever, but it says it's time to be real and they just take a picture of what you're doing wherever you are, right there in that moment. You have two minutes to post it, you can post late and that's what a lot of people do. But it's really just like a once daily posting app. It's not the curated feed and the beautiful like Brazilian vacation photo pictures that we would get in the old school, Instagram and Facebook, right? So that was a lot more curation and now Gen Z is leaning a lot more towards just like, this is how it is, this is what it is, take me for me, it is what it is, take it or leave it.

Nick Clason (04:29):
Like that's essentially right? Like that's essentially, uh, what they, uh, have kind of leaned into. And I think it's fascinating shift this like perfect polished, kind of curated down to this like little more nitty gritty just as I, as I am, take me or leave me for who I am. That's kind of what BeReal is. That's kind of why I think TikTok shifted too. And one of the things that's interesting is burial is where you follow friends, but they only post one time a day. There's like not as much pressure on social media on the curation of it. And I just, I think that that's a trend. I think that that's, uh, a, a way, a thing that Gen Z is attempting to adopt less curation, more just realness, more rawness, more authenticity. Um, and meanwhile like, uh, take, uh, Instagram, Facebook, and some of those more legacy platforms, millennials and up, that's not as much the priority in fact, or it hasn't been, you know, and as they've shifted into reels, which is much more discovery based, more raw, more quick cuts and more like entertainment based.

Nick Clason (05:36):
Um, like you would go on on TikTok or any of the other platforms, shorts, reels, and you would watch something, it's like 98% or, or something like that. 90% of what you actually watch and consume is not from people that you know. So that's not really a social media anymore. It's honestly much more of like a entertainment platform you get on TikTok at the end of the night or whenever you do to be entertained. So the actual sociability is happening on apps like be real and other, just more like basic, very like nitty gritty, not a lot of bells and whistles type of thing. And I think that there's an attraction to that. And so, uh, I I just, I think that's one, one interesting shift that I'm noticing in the generation gap. I wanna also look at the workplace gap here in a minute and how I think that that plays out for you and your church.

Nick Clason (06:29):
But first I have some new stats I got from Barna. So let's dive in to those recent stats from Barna on Gen Z. Um, found some of these interesting, just wanted to share them with you. According to Gen Z or according to Barna, 56% of Generation Z claim to be Christians, which might be higher than you thought it was. I think that there's sort of a notion out there that Gen Z is deconstructing, gen Z is rethinking their faith, but 56% still claim and classify themselves as Christians. Granted, I know there's, you know, all kinds of different things on spectrum. You may claim to be a Christian, is it nominal y or whatever, whatnot. The thing that's staggeringly high though is Gen Z considers, uh, only TW or 25% of Gen Z consider themselves to have no faith at all. And here's the the crazy thing, right?

Nick Clason (07:19):
Like that is, that's the part that is alarmingly high I believe because that is the highest of any other generation by a lot. So US adults, according to US adults only 13% say that they have no faith. And the next highest, um, like breakdown age demographic thing is millennials and they're at 15%. Gen X is at 13%, boomers at 8%, elders at 5%, all of that under not saying that they don't have, uh, faith. And so here's the thing is that while you and I, if we're older and not generation Z, we may look at that and we may be like, wow, that that's alarming. And they are definitely deconstructing and that may be the label that we give to it. But what's interesting is that they surveyed Gen Z gr deeper. And these five words were the words that most defined and clarified their spiritual journey.

Nick Clason (08:12):
And they were these words, number one, they're spiritually growing. That was 39% of the population checked that, uh, number two, they're spiritually open, 35%, they're spiritually curious, 32% they are, um, spiritual in general, uh, 29%. And then they are spiritually exploring 27%. So like I said, we might have that classification as like, man, you're deconstructing what they call it a different word. And I, that was a very, very, um, uh, important learning, at least for me. I was like, okay, we're freaking out about it. And they're like, no, I'm just open. I'm just exploring. I'm just growing. I'm just checking things out. That was how they would describe it. Uh, big bucket of that, 70% of Gen Z claim to be spiritually open. 70%, that's a large stat. Um, and then furthermore, to expound upon that and that this is where I think this really gets interesting and important for churches is that these were some of the traits that, uh, the survey asked Gen Z, what do you want in your, um, church?

Nick Clason (09:20):
What do you want in your religious institution? What are the key things you're looking for? The first question, are you looking for it to be correct? 6% of teens said that they were looking for their religion to be correct. 8% of all Gen Zs said that and 9% of young adults said that. Not very high, right? Are you looking for it to be knowledgeable? Are you looking for people in your religious institutions or people around to be knowledgeable? 16% of teens said, yeah, I'm looking for them to be knowledgeable. 21% of all Gen Zs said, yeah, I'm looking for them to be knowledgeable and then 24% of young adults, so I'm looking for them to be knowledgeable. You can see that jump right from teenager to young adult. Once you become an adult, you're like, I do want someone to know something, right? To help me out.

Nick Clason (10:02):
Uh, this one was the, the highest, the highest on the graphs. You had different graphs of all these different, um, characteristics. Being honest, this is the highest one. 41% of teens want their religious institution. To be honest, 32% of all Gen Z ask for that. And 25% of young adults want honesty, want authenticity, right? Back to be real honesty, authenticity, the real you being open to new ideas. That was another category. 29% of teens want that. 28% of all Gen Z, 28% of young adults. And finally, curiosity, that one was lower with 7% of teens wanting to be curious. 11% of all Gen Z and 13% of young adults. And so they're looking for honesty, they're looking for transparency, they're looking for realness. Okay? Furthermore, and this is the last bit of the stats before we dive into what I think are pot, some potential implications for this.

Nick Clason (10:55):
51% of Gen Z say that happiness is very important to them. They are looking for happiness. Well, you know, once, once they heard that stam in this like Barna kind of collab thing where they are sharing these statistics, one other person's put in the chat, how do you define happiness? And they ask that question, they're like, what does happiness look like to you? So 43% say it looks like success and, and they used images for them to choose. So that success image was a guy holding money. That's what 43% say, happiness looks like. Successful man holding money where 23% say education is happiness. 20% say family, 8% say spiritual and 6% say health. All right? So what does all that mean? Let's dive into it and check it out. Okay? So I think that there's a workplace shift that needs to happen. Covid ushered a lot of this stuff in and your church is probably in a different spot than it was pre covid, but it may not be fully there where generation Z is interested.

Nick Clason (11:56):
Cuz here's the thing, whether this matters to you on paper or not, you are going to need to start hiring generation Z by the year 2025, which at the time of the podcast recording is only a year and a half away. Millennials and Gen Z are going to make up the majority of the American workforce. That may or may not be true in your context and in your church, but the fact is, if you're catering to boomers and Xers in the workplace, just because this is the way we've always done it and they need to get over it and they need to get used to it, that may not be your most effective strategy moving forward. And it may not bite you right in the year 2025, but 2026 rolls around 20 27, 20 28, and you're trying to recruit new young talent and they're just not interested in coming to work for your church or your organization.

Nick Clason (12:43):
Why is that the case? Here are some thoughts I have based off of this research and just some things I've observed in the last couple of years that I think might be contributing to it. So the first is this, the time off conversation and or the work life balance conversation. These are wide sweeping generalities, I understand it. And so if you're like, Hey, I'm a Gen Xer and that's not true of me. I'm saying by and large wide sweeping, um, I work for a boss, he's Gen X, he is phenomenal at giving me time off, taking care of me, making sure I have balance, work life balance, all those things. But he will of his own admission and, and own accord say that he is a workaholic and he will push it to the limit. And so, uh, that is something that is of the older generation, much more the norm.

Nick Clason (13:36):
They're looking for people who are gonna work hard and give it their all and bust it. And while that may be true, and that may even be what's necessary at times, that is not the natural disposition of millennials and Gen Z, I'm a millennial and I I am friends with and work with a lot of people that are Gen Z. I don't think that they're lazy and don't wanna work. I just simply think that they are more aware of their work life balance. They've looked to their older parents or wiser people in their life and they've seen how they've approached work and they have not, they don't want to fall to those same, you know, pitfalls that they've seen over time. So work-life balance, PTO rhythms, taking time off vacation. I have a coworker, she's Gen Z and this is her first job. And so she's been with us, um, at our job for the, about the same amount of time that I've been working there, eight months or so.

Nick Clason (14:32):
And this is her first time with like a true weekend, but she has to come back for Sundays. Sundays are not a weekend anymore, but we get Fridays off. And so she will often try to get out of the office a little bit early on a Thursday and she will often take a trip somewhere, go meet some friends, you know, whatever. So she's leaving at like two o'clock, three o'clock, hitting the road, getting there on Thursday night, hanging out. Like, and that's important to her. And so there was a Thursday night commitment that she had and she's like, I can't do that. And it was like, because this is my weekend. I need my weekend to explore, to have fun. And that's just like, I think most older generations would be like, no, you have to work yet to stay here until five. Like, that's the rules.

Nick Clason (15:16):
And I just think that that that's a shift that is happening and that's probably an adaptation that I would say is gonna need to take place in the workforce. Uh, also flexible in workspaces, like remote working should be able to be a thing. Now I get it. If you're at church and you're in ministry, you know, just how valuable and important like in-person face-to-face meetings are. If you're gonna disciple somebody, if you're gonna grab coffee with a leader, if you're gonna sit down and have breakfast with a couple and you're counseling them, like all those things are valuable. But there's a lot of computer work, there's a lot of email based work, there's a lot of like software things that can take place via remote work. And you don't have to be 100% completely in the office, your butt in a chair because the natural like tendency for that is like everyone's here.

Nick Clason (16:06):
And so if anyone needs anything, we just pop in and out of people's offices. There are tools nowadays, there's slack, there's as much as I hate it, there's Microsoft teams, there are chat based features that you can stay in touch and you don't have to have a quote unquote office or hallway or pop in type conversation. Why do we do that? I think we do that because it's comfortable, it's familiar to the way it's always been done, but the tools are there and they're probably a little bit more effective on, uh, efficiency workflow, getting people like, you know, in and outta conversations as opposed to like, Hey, how are you? And that conversation taking an extra 10, 15, 20 minutes, there's value in those things, no doubt. But generation Z and millennials are looking for more flexible workspaces if they can get their job done while out, while also being on vacation somewhere so that they can work for a few hours, they can close their laptop and then they can go and have fun on vacation.

Nick Clason (17:03):
If we are so tight and stringent and say, no, you have to be here in the office, that's not gonna lend itself well to that flexible workspace and that first one, that time off that work life balance. The other trend, the other thing that I'm kind of noticing is that the older generations, uh, Xers and boomers, they're holding on longer, they're working later, they need the money to retire, they still need the income. And this one I think is big, is because while Gen Z is pursuing happiness, uh, corporate work environment may not be the cure or key to their happiness, but if it is, especially in church, they may say like, well, I'm looking for purpose and the church helps bring me that purpose. I want to be a part of a church. However, there are older generations that are still hanging on and that are still working.

Nick Clason (17:54):
So the question is, while we want to hire younger people, where is the space for them to come into your organization attached to it, take ownership of something and begin working toward any sort of authority in your organization because you have people already holding those most important positions. And that's gonna get tricky, especially if you got those people sitting there and and holding those most important positions. Where are they going to lay down and pave away for generation Z to come in and take opportunity? The last thing I think is that Gen Z is very concerned and rightly so about their mental health, about their mental state, about their mental wellbeing, making sure that those things are taken care of, that they're important. And so your organization, if you're bringing in millennials and Gen Z, consider finding a way to help prioritize their mental health, make counseling a part of a employment benefit for them, um, and for, you know, a thing that you offer to them.

Nick Clason (18:56):
So I have one last idea, let's check it out on the other side, right? So here's my conclusion. Gen Z, well, 25% would claim that they don't have faith. I think one of the things I've noticed in my experience is that generation Z, they still love and like Jesus a lot. In fact, in this Barna co lab, they sat down and talked with two guys who were Gen Z business owners. And what shocked me and was just an interesting thing that I noticed, uh, they didn't necessarily say this, they're a part of their church, but they're Christians running a Christian organization, not doing it through the local church. So my question to myself in that moment was, if Gen Zers, like these are passionate about faith, passionate about God, they love going to things like, you know, passion, these people, they were in the event business as well.

Nick Clason (19:51):
They love going to those things, but we're not seeing them in our churches, both on the workplace side or the attendance side. Do they like Jesus and just not like the way that we do our church? I think church has a propensity right now to feel very institutionalized. And I think that that, that if that rubbed you the wrong way, and especially if you're older and you're listening to it and you're like, my church isn't institutionalized, this is what we've been doing it for years. While that may be true, the way that we've been doing church for years is American, not necessarily New Testament. The New Testament church looked very different from the American church. So are you doing church like the Bible or are you doing church like America? And there's nothing wrong with doing church like America unless it's not effective in reaching the next generation.

Nick Clason (20:36):
And in that case, that's where it becomes an issue. And so I think both from older generations holding on from workplaces not being very friendly to Generation Z, millennials and those with that type of mindset and the fact that there's just not as much space for Generation Z to, to go into these spaces, they're creating them over here to look more New Testament, to look more authentic, to look more be real, to have more community, to have more places to lean in as opposed to coming to your institutionalized church. Because if they're not there in the seats from eight 30 to nine 30, then we consider them deconstructing. And that just may simply not be true. They might just be open to exploring new ways, new, new ideas, new places to engage with these things. That doesn't necessarily mean that they're out on Jesus. It just might mean that they're out on you. So what shifts might you need to take place? What stats have you heard that you're like now that's interesting and that might change some of the way we do things because before long, millennials and generations here are going to make up the majority of our workforce. They are Gen Z is not just teenagers in your youth group, they're graduating college now. They are looking for a church to attach to. Is your church friendly to them and what they need? Or is your church stuck dogmatically to the way that things have always been done?

Nick Clason (21:59):
Well thanks guys so much for hanging out in this episode. Thrilled to have you with us. Don't forget everything that you need is gonna be available to you in the show notes. Make sure that you like, make sure that you comment, make sure that you subscribe, rating, review, all those things. Glad to be with you. If you find this helpful, we would love to continue to create and produce content like this for you. So all that stuff helps keep us going as well as head to hybridministry.xyz Click on the contact form and if you have questions, submit them there to us. We would love to start taking some questions, answering some of your questions and giving back to y'all and letting you know what our perspective is on certain hybrid things, digital, social marketing, communications, generation Z, all the above. Let us know on those topic. But until next time, and as always, stay.

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT: http://www.hybridministry.xyz/037
YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9pjecCnd8FVFCenWharf2g
TIKTOK: https://www.tiktok.com/@clasonnick
FREE EBOOK: https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/ebook

SHOWNOTES
How to Run a Successful Ad: https://www.hybridministry.xyz/009

TIMECODES
00:00-03:35 Introduction
03:35-09:00 Facebook.. Does Gen Z care about Facebook?
09:00-15:11 The History of Facebook and what it is today
15:11-18:36 Reason 1) Create a Facebook Page
18:36-20:59 Reason 2) Link your Facebook & Instagram Accounts
20:59-24:00 Reason 3) Create a Facebook Group
24:00-25:55 Outro

TRANSCRIPT
Nick Clason (00:02):
Well, hello everybody. Welcome back to another episode in addition of the hybrid ministry show. My name is Nick Clason. I, as always, I'm your host, excited to be with you. And in this episode, we are going to be diving into our third platform that you should be focused on as a church in building out the six step framework for social media or churches in 2023. Now, this one, um, is gonna be a little bit of a zig or a zag because my guess is if you, uh, know me, you know my story. I am a youth pastor and so I'm gonna be, I do this a lot from the realm of and um, position of being a youth pastor. And so this one you're gonna be like, wait a minute, what is he recommending before? What other one? Cuz you know, so far we've done YouTube and we've also done TikTok.

Nick Clason (01:01):
And so probably your assumption would be that we would be moving on to Instagram and if I were to rank platforms in the order of importance, it would go TikTok, YouTube, Instagram, and then Facebook. But today we are going to talk about Facebook and there's a few reasons why and we're gonna get to that. So make sure you stick around to the very end of the episode cuz we're gonna talk about the three primary reasons why you should start with Facebook as opposed to Instagram, especially if you're starting from scratch. And those three reasons are also relevant and prevalent. If you are already on both of those platforms. There's just gonna be some things and, uh, some technical, uh, linking things that you're gonna need and want to do that are gonna help you optimize your performance on both of those platforms, Instagram and Facebook.

Nick Clason (01:49):
All right, um, real quick, let's talk about, uh, before we dive in, you know, too much. I want to remind you, you can head over to our YouTube channel. If you are listening on a podcast, hit the link in the show notes and give us a subscribe there that would help us out tremendously. If you're discovering us and watching us on YouTube, hit the link in the show notes over to hybrid ministry.xyz. That is the homepage and home base for our podcast. And every single episode, including this one, which will have a link to the show notes, has a fully flushed out transcript. So you can go and you can grab the fully flushed out transcript for this episode and any of our past episodes as well as that's where you can get the free download called, have I already Ruined my Church's TikTok account?

Nick Clason (02:32):
And that is your complete guide to handing your phone to someone and say, Hey, post me a TikTok. And if they have no idea what they're doing, that will walk them through step by step. All of that is available, um, in our show notes. That's also available on our website. So give us a subscribe, give us a rating or a review, we would love it. And follow us in all the places. I personally, uh, am on TikTok and I am on YouTube and I'm trying to grow on both of those places to just the word out to help more people like you, church content communicators, church social media managers, youth pastors, part-time college students who got handed a phone from your pastor and said, Hey, we should probably be on social media. Yes, I am here to help you. And that is my entire goal is to help show you one of the ways that you can approach this in your church, in your life and in your ministry.

Nick Clason (03:24):
So without any further ado, let's hop into this episode of Facebook, the platform that Gen Z doesn't care about or do this. All right, so Facebook, does Gen Z care about Facebook? So there was an article back in 2015, um, by Pew Research that found that 71% of teenagers from the age 13 to 17 say that they used Facebook. And at that time they easily beat out platforms like Twitter, Instagram, and Snapchat. That's an encouraging number. And so for a lot of youth pastors, a lot of people working with Next generation, a lot of people doing social media, um, it kept the impetus and the importance of making Facebook a priority, making it something that you continually should be investing in. All right? However, back in 2022, which is not that long ago, from the drop of this, uh, podcast or the drop of this videos only a year or so ago, it tells us a different story.

Nick Clason (04:26):
So that number in 2015 was at 71%, but it has now dropped to that same age demographic. 13 to 17 year olds is now dropped to 32%. Then you might be thinking then like, why in the world are we making this a priority? Obviously it's tapering off with younger people, it's really only relevant for older generations. And while our church may have a good crop of people in older generation who are still using and active on Facebook, the reality is like that is dropping more and more. And that is true, and I will a hundred percent affirm you. And if you do decide that you don't want to take on Facebook as a platform, I totally get that. Um, especially if you wanna trend younger and be more relevant. Because the reality is this is like even Gen Z, or I'm sorry, gen X, uh, millennials, boomers, they use some of the other platforms that we're talking about here.

Nick Clason (05:16):
They're active on YouTube, some of them probably do have a TikTok account. And so if you want to abandon Facebook altogether, you can. The thing is, reality is probably you as a church, you probably already have a Facebook account. It's already probably been established and it's probably been active for years. And so what do you do and how do in this, you know, ever shifting landscape, do you continue to even use and reinvest in Facebook? I do think that there's a spot for it. I do think that there are some pertinent things that are worth you understanding and noticing. Um, and I'm gonna talk about those and especially in the very final episode of this six step kind of framework, we're gonna, um, put all of these platforms back together, right? And we're gonna gonna say here with all these different platforms, all these different like things we talked about, what is a full fledged church social media framework and strategy, taking all these pieces and putting 'em together.

Nick Clason (06:09):
So you're gonna see where Facebook fits into that. Um, but the answer to this is why we think we should continue to, um, participate in Facebook. The answer is twofold. So part number one, like we said in the last episode about TikTok, if you only have time to invest in one, invest in TikTok, I say that primarily for younger ministries, youth pastors, but quite honestly, uh, I think I would still say that the purpose for that is, uh, true, uh, for even like a church, not just a youth ministry like church, trying to reach people for their, you know, their community, their town, whatever. Like nothing wrong with just investing in TikTok. Uh, and a lot of the things today that we're gonna talk about are gonna feel like a lot of groundwork. And so that might be boring and you might not yield as many returns on it.

Nick Clason (06:52):
And so you're probably gonna have to spend a day or a week slow out some of these things, figuring out some of the things. Um, however, if you do wanna build out a fully robust holistic social media strategy, like I said, we're gonna put that together in the final episode of this little mini-series that we're doing. Facebook needs to be a part of it, not necessarily for the reasons that you might think. However, I will caveat this and say in the ranking of importance for Gen Z and Gen Alpha, Facebook is very last on my list for the specific platforms to invest in, right? Like I've, I've said, okay, however, your usage on Facebook on meta is gonna be for three primary reasons. And starting with Facebook's GI gives you an easier road, uh, to launch some other social media or, and this part's important or marketing endeavors that you may be interested in or your church or your pastor or your executive pastor might be interested in you carrying out, overseeing and executing.

Nick Clason (07:48):
All right? And so we're gonna look at this as more of a, um, foundation building as opposed to like a v going viral and, and drumming up a lot of interest and reaching a lot of people. Okay? So be that as it may, Facebook still plays a pretty crucial and important role. Before we go too much further, I do wanna share one last stat with you. 32% of users on Facebook are teenagers. That isn't a lot, but that also isn't nothing. And those teenagers are still users of Facebook. They may not be contributors, but they are as some social media people have dubbed lurkers, which means they are viewing what's going on on Facebook, and they will grow up and they will become, um, the age of the, uh, adults in your church. And in addition to that, a lot of families have parents who spend a lot of their time on Facebook.

Nick Clason (08:38):
And so if you're a demographic, if you're a church reaching families, you may not be reaching their teenagers, but you may be catering to and reaching their parents and there's um, uh, there is a benefit to doing that. All right, so let's dive into Facebook before the history of it and what it is now. Okay, Facebook before and now let's go back to the beginning. In the beginning, God created the heavens and the Earth. Okay, maybe not that far back. Let's go a little further. Okay, let's go to 2004. In 2004, you probably heard of a guy by the name of Mark Zuckerberg. Zuckerberg launched and started Facebook as a social media platform. He launched it in 2004 on Harvard University's campus. He was a sophomore, and his primary purpose there was to connect Harvard students to other Harvard students. And so back in the very original OG Facebook days, it was built primarily for college campuses so that you could see the faces of other college students, know their names, get to know them, but by the end of the year, the almost unimaginable had happened for Zuckerberg and over 1 million users, 1 million users were on Facebook, and the reach had then expanded beyond just his simple campus.

Nick Clason (09:55):
And the spread was like wildfire. And Facebook changed the game forever. Facebook is often thought to be one of the major contributors of ushering in the, uh, the, the, what am I looking for? The setting or the, the, the, gosh, why is this word so hard for me? I don't know what I'm trying to say, but ushering in the idea of Web 2.0. So Web 1.0 was just basic HTML website's, text on a screen, web 2.0 allowed the users to actually be contributing, formatting, crafting what was being said. We are now, by the way, in a world of Web 3.0 where users can create their own reality. Right now it's primarily through things like vr, but the algorithms which are less social graph and now more discovery based are helping you sort of find and create your own reality, which by the way, I think is a little bit dangerous, especially if you are a pastor and you are anchored in the truth of God's word.

Nick Clason (10:53):
However, as opposed to bucking that and saying that you need to just ca cast your phone into like a fire, um, and not look at TikTok, I think you need to help people steward that, that they've been given because now honestly, the reality is social media is not very social like it was back in the day. Uh, we've seen that Gen Z has watched millennials and Gen Xers use and, and lean into their community being all digital, and it has honestly yielded not very good results. So I honestly see a good pendulum shift in some of our Gen Z students and people that I interact with because they lean into more real authentic community. So why are they spending so much time on platforms like TikTok and YouTube? They're, they're, they're honestly there for entertainment more than they are for like social connection. And that's the thing, Facebook was built as a platform of social connection.

Nick Clason (11:43):
And so now it is a legacy platform and it's been around forever and it is still a major player and a major contributor in the game. However, they are having to, having to adjust to TikTok and YouTube have been ushering in, in these last several years that they've seen the younger generations adapt. And because Facebook knows that great Aunt Betty is going to eventually no longer be a user at some point because she's not going to be living on this planet of earth, they need to start catering to the younger generations if they want anyone to even adopt their platform. The reality is a lot of people are not huge fans of Facebook altogether, but whether they know it or not, they're using platforms under the Facebook umbrella. So all that being said, Facebook still remains the number one social media platform to this day based on, uh, based on number of users according to an article, which we will link in the show notes of backlinko backlink.io, I always get that one messed up.

Nick Clason (12:38):
Backlink io Facebook presently has 1.9 billion daily users, which is 6.89% increased year over year. In addition to the massive usage that is found and seen by Facebook users and contributors. Uh, Facebook has been acquiring more and more products, uh, over their lifetime and life cycle. Here are some of the products that they've acquired. You may be have heard of them, Instagram, WhatsApp, gfi, Oculus, and many more. In fact, if my counting and calculations are correct, Facebook has a total acquisition of over 88 different products, um, or companies or tech like focused things, okay? And the total cost of those acquisitions is estimated to be north of 23 billion with a B dollars. So I will link that, that article as well because honestly, uh, I didn't read all of them to you because you get really bored. There's really only like four or five that you probably actually recognize by name, WhatsApp, Instagram, Oculus gif, you the rest are like, what?

Nick Clason (13:46):
And they just absorbed these companies into them and, and stole their intellectual property, not stole, bought their intellectual property to use for their, their behalf and their betterment. Okay? And so as I was first, uh, sitting down to record this podcast and thinking about all this Facebook stuff, um, the reality is this, fast forward to October, 2021, Facebook announces this is the big shift here from Facebook back then to Facebook. Now, Facebook announces a change in their name from Facebook as the parent company to the name Meta. You probably know that if not, you've probably seen it and been unaware that that is, that is where that comes from. All right? And so the name reflects as the company says, um, the name reflects the company's growing ambitions to be relevant beyond just social media. They want to build technology that will help connect people. That's what they say their ultimate goal is.

Nick Clason (14:38):
Uh, I'll link that article in the show notes, but with the announcement of the name change from Facebook into Meta, this giant conglomerate of products that Meta has acquired over the years, it leads us specifically now to how you in your church can and probably should be using Facebook in your context here in 2023 as a part of the six step Church social medium framework. So without any further ado, let's hop in to reason number one, why you should be using Facebook. Reason number one, and the way in which you should be using Facebook in your church and in your ministry is to create a Facebook page. Now, Facebook page is the corporate side of Facebook. It is where businesses and corporations go to have their hours. It's where they link their website. It's, it's where they, at some point in time, we'll run ads and your church more than likely has a corporate company Facebook page.

Nick Clason (15:37):
I would recommend that you start with a Facebook page, not necessarily, because I think it's a great strategy for reaching people organically anymore in 2023. However, it is going to help sort of be the anchor for everything that you do on Facebook. And if you start there, especially if you don't have anything already launched right now, but if you start there, then sort of from there, the rest of everything else can kind of spread, which is one of the reasons why I have jumped Facebook over Instagram, for example, because Facebook is the owner of Instagram. And so if you start with that Facebook page, then you can sort of build things out from there. One of the things that you need to know about Facebook is it's not just a simple username and password sort of login. So if you're inheriting a Facebook page, what you need to do is you need to discover who the admin is on the Facebook page.

Nick Clason (16:24):
The person who has a personal specific profile, their first name and last name, they are an admin to an account. And that is who runs or who is kind of doing the Wizard of Oz behind the curtain, um, managing of Facebook pages. That's how Facebook works. So for example, I just moved to a church about six months ago. They had a a Facebook page, and everyone that I asked, I kept asking to try and get login information for it. They're like, oh yeah, the username password should be on this password document sheet that we have. And, and I just was like, no, that's, that's not how it works. Like, it's not just like I log into Facebook, I have to log in as myself, Nick Clason on my Facebook page, and then I have to be made an administrator or an admin or an editor or a moderator or whatever the case might be, whatever the role is that is decided that has to happen to me, my account, not a login into a specific place.

Nick Clason (17:20):
Okay? So when you start on this place, everything else can sort of be driven from that. The other reason that you would wanna start with a Facebook page is that some point you may want to run ads on your Facebook page. Um, and you may, you can do that either on Facebook, you also can do that through Facebook to your Instagram count if you find Instagram more beneficial to your audience. But you do that through the business suite, the meta suite. And so, um, learning to run an ad is probably one of the most maddening processes, especially if you have no idea what you're doing, what some of the language means or whatever if you're a complete nbe. And so one time I interviewed my friend, former co-host of this podcast, Matt Johnson. He is a marketing freaking guru, uh, and he has done some incredible things, marketing, especially in the ministry space, if you are or have ever heard of or are familiar with the company, dare to share.

Nick Clason (18:16):
He was behind a lot of what they did and a lot of what got them out, uh, visible to a lot of people out in the world. And so, um, he walks us through in a former episode, not link that in the show notes of how to step, how to set up an ad, step by step, uh, running a Facebook ad. So that's there for you. Hopefully that's helpful to you. All right? Step number two is beyond the Facebook page. You should also link your Facebook and Instagram accounts. This is probably one of the most obvious or low hanging fruit reasons why you should start with Facebook, because once you link them, then it's really no extra work, especially if you start on the Instagram side, which we'll get to that in the next episode. But if you start on the Instagram side posting something, all you do is simply toggle on a switch that says also post to Facebook, and boom, you're posting the same content in two places.

Nick Clason (19:08):
That used to be a no-no. That used to be something that you shied away from. But now it's actually something that I and many other church social media marketing managers encourage, especially with the current thing that every social media is focusing on short form video content. It doesn't matter if it's also posted on Instagram, on Facebook, I did a thing the other day, we do this stupid game on our, uh, Instagram, on our TikTok, on our YouTube shorts called, um, , it's called ABC Cheese. So we have a little craft singles and we try to bite like just two of us and try to bite out a letter. And the other person was trying to guess what it's, and so I just was like curious and I was like, how many views did this video in total get? And so I, I looked on YouTube, I looked on TikTok, I looked on Instagram reels, and I looked on Facebook reels, and in total we had somewhere between seven and 800 views on just that one stupid video alone by posting it to all those different platforms.

Nick Clason (20:05):
You know, like one had 600, one had a hundred, one had 300, one had 200, you know what I mean? That kind of all adds up. And you start to think about it, you're like, dang, that's like seven, eight, 9,000 hun. You know, thou not a thousand hundred, 900, a thousand people reach. Like it's a lot, man. Like that's, that's, that's something that churches, youth ministries would've been begging for in years past and before with Facebook pages, primarily as the marketing tool and engine, you had to pay to do it. And you, I mean, you still do if you wanna market stuff, but you can kind of like punch your lottery ticket with any of these reels or short form video and just blow up, or not even blow up, but just get a hundred views across four platforms that adds up to north of 500, north of 700, north of 900 views on any single video.

Nick Clason (20:56):
I think most people would say that that's worth it. All right? The third and final way and, and um, path that I think you should take on Facebook is create a Facebook group. According to a 2021 study, there were approximately 233 million Facebook users in the US alone. 18.2 of those users belong to the 18 to 24 age group, while 18% of those users are 35 to 34 years old. So in total, you're looking at, almost 40% of your users are between the age of 18 and 44. So while your teenagers, your youth ministry might not be spending a lot of time on Facebook, other platforms, um, other people, older demographics definitely are. And I think that you, one of your largest wins as a church is to create a group because that is where you can make community on social media feel intimate and in, in fact, it's probably one of the only platforms that offers a close sort of intimate community style feel.

Nick Clason (21:56):
And so I do think of all of the features that Facebook does have to offer. You can have a group. And so again, if you start with a page, then out of that you can create a group that's connected to that page and you can post as the page admin or you can switch your profile and you can be interacting as yourself in the group, and you can make that that switch. And they've started to make that a lot easier. If you go onto the page on your phone or on your browser, it'll give you a little notification in one of the corners somewhere that says you're interacting as the, the brand, you're interacting as the page or you're interacting as yourself. And then it just gives you a button there. Do you wanna switch? And you click switch and it switches over between yours or your page.

Nick Clason (22:37):
And so you can make some of those things. You also have the opportunity to go to the business suite and schedule some stuff. You can also link and schedule that over to your Instagram. And they now offer scheduling for reels. They offer scheduling for stories, which were not things that they offered previously. All the schedule tools really only posted like static images to pages, um, and your Instagram grid feed. But now they're starting to offer more. Uh, they do, in my personal experience, I've really only been experimenting with schedulers for a little bit here now, but they do seem to choke down your organic reach all of those platforms like it, when you post live time, there really is no way around that. No matter how much you try, no matter how, how much these like schedulers promised you, you're gonna just have better performance on all of your stuff if you are posting it.

Nick Clason (23:26):
Um, and that, but that's a value proposition that you have to weigh through, especially if you have a million other responsibilities. Is it worth it to peace of mind, have it scheduled and you don't have to worry about it? Or is it something that you should, you know, wade into and navigate choice is yours? It's kind up to you. Um, so one of the best things that can do though as a church is to run a Facebook group. And over time you don't even have to be supplying that with a lot of content. The content hopefully will be generated by the users that are already a part of your Facebook group community. Well, everyone, once again, thank you so much for hanging out for this entire episode. I hope that you found this episode helpful. Like I said, the Facebook, uh, episode's a lot more focused on nitty gritty groundwork, building up some stuff so that you can build up a more robust and full social media strategy.

Nick Clason (24:18):
We are going to be diving into that in the future episodes. But coming up next, we are finally moving on to Instagram. We're gonna talk about some strategies and some reasons behind how you can be using Instagram effectively as a church in your 2023 social media framework. In addition to that, before we, we get to the very final piece where we put it all together, we are gonna talk email and texting and website. And so those three things are also critically important, I think to sort of serve as a backdrop and or as a lead generator for some of these other social media platforms to your already existing church audience that you have access to through a database and Excel spreadsheet or whatever the case might be in your particular context. Again, excited to be with you and excited to be right here now on the downhill slide of our six part church miniseries on church social media in 2023.

Nick Clason (25:13):
If you found this episode helpful, do me a favor and please send it to a friend, share it, rate it, review it, all those things are incredibly helpful to me, and they're a free for you to just give back in a very small way to our podcast and the work that we've been doing here at Hybrid Ministry. You can also check out free transcripts that we provide for you for every single episode, and that's over http://www.hybridministry.xyz. Hit the show notes for all the articles that we mentioned for all the other, uh, episodes that we reference for all the other social media places that you can follow me. And until next time, and as always, stay hybrid.

How does the church shift the way it approaches ministry, not to diminsh or downplay the unchangable truths or things of Scripture, but to best set them up for relevance with Gen Z, Millenials and the next Generation of Church attenders? Listen or watch to find out!

SHOWNOTES
YouTube Trends Report: https://www.youtube.com/trends/report/
Nick on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9pjecCnd8FVFCenWharf2g
Nick on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@clasonnick
Nick's Podcast: https://www.hybridministry.xyz
Full Transcript of this Show: https://www.hybridministry.xyz/032

TIMECODES
00:00-00:54 Intro
00:54-03:27 2022 YouTube Trends Report
03:27-06:22 What does all of this mean?
06:22-11:35 The Pop Culture Formation Formula
11:35-18:07 Creating Community Creativity
18:07-23:11 Multi Format Creativity
23:11-25:18 Response Creativity
25:18-28:26 The Future Exists in Dialogue of Digital Communities
28:26-32:09 The Digital and Hybrid Implications for the church moving into 2023
32:09-34:18 Outro

TRANSCRIPT
Nick Clason (00:03):
Well, what is up everybody? Welcome to another episode of the Hybrid Ministry podcast, and now on YouTube. Excited to be with you all. We're gonna test out a couple of video options here. See how these go. I know it'll go fine. Mostly I'm testing to see how much extra work it's gonna be. But would love to have you join us over there if you want to check out for video stream as well. Something that is just another option. So we have audio, we have video, um, but everything, the home base for it is hybridministry.xyz of course, cuz hybridministry.com was taken. So I'm your host, Nick Clason, excited to be with you. And in today's episode, what I actually wanted to discuss was this idea of why should churches even care about digital and hybrid ministry? Like what is the purpose?

Nick Clason (01:03):
We all saw the pitfalls downfalls and the reasons why digital ministry was not a good example. Um, it was not a good thing, um, during Covid. And so we are now past Covid. We're able to live in a more semi-normal world. Why in the world should churches even care about digital? So let's go ahead and let's get this episode underway. So let's talk about some assumptions, right? Like, I think that there are some general social media specific assumptions that say that social media is void of relationship, right? Like, the point of it is, I, I I don't know, right? Like the point of it is maybe to to post, uh, post some announcements, um, and try and drum up some external, some marketing, um, marketing, so to speak, uh, examples of people who might not go to our church and we want to get them connected to our church.

Nick Clason (02:08):
But there's an assumption that like the real, the main thing that's gonna work is gonna be relationships of people to people inviting one another. Let me just say that, um, I've been doing student ministry social media now for 12 years, and never once has anyone of the accounts that I've ever run really gone viral, so to speak. Like we've never had more than like an inordinate amount of followers, never had more like a thousand followers. I have had a couple Instagram accounts with more than a thousand followers, but honestly like, that was not from anything that I, or we were doing. That was more an inherited thing where the Instagram account already had a high level of followers and we were just sort of like the beneficiaries of that account already having a lot of followers. So my point is nothing we did really drummed up a lot of outside interest.

Nick Clason (03:03):
Okay. And so this assumption that social media is not relationship based and you know, the purpose of it is to, you know, get people from the outside looking in. Yeah, I mean, yeah, that is, I think that's, I think that's a benefit. I think that, um, like we said in the last episode, the church is in a unique intersection where what you post can be both discovered by the people that go to your church, but also because of the new discovery algorithms, which this is probably why in my 12 years we haven't seen this, because these new algorithms that are being made famous by TikTok and then adopted by Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube on reels and shorts are, um, new. Like this is a new territory for churches because previously your people followed your pages and your accounts, and if you wanted more people to follow it, you had to pay for it.

Nick Clason (03:52):
And I've, I have never done that. And so my accounts never really did that, where there were like a lot of people coming to discover our accounts. And so now we are in a unique intersection where people might actually discover your church. And what's more interesting is that all of these algorithms, there's a uniqueness where they start out geographically local. So first the algorithm from what we've learned is they're pumped out to your followers, which are then pumped out to their followers, which are then pumped out to the, uh, like your geographical region, which is why a lot of times you can geotag your posts on Instagram, on TikTok, and so you can put your city, and so the people in your city might be exposed to your information first, and then beyond that it'll, you know, go to the state and viral and whatever the case might be.

Nick Clason (04:44):
But, but the reality is, the, the closer that you are, the more likely that the people around you are gonna find it. And so therefore, if people in your geographical region are discovering your videos, there is an actual chance that they might hear the message of Jesus from you and then take a step to become a visitor or a first timer at your church. I mean, wouldn't that be amazing? Wouldn't that, wouldn't that be one of the goals that we're looking for here? Um, and again, like I said, I haven't experienced that in a lot of cases, and I think that's because that really wasn't an option up here until very recently. Um, however, there's still the argument that like, no one's gonna come to our church based off of that. And that might be true. And I think that it depends on your style of church, if you're, um, a more of an outreach centric church that you want that.

Nick Clason (05:34):
And so you're gonna be more gung-ho about this idea. And if you're more of a discipleship centric church, which tends to be a little more inward facing, um, not because you believe that that's more valuable and more important, but that just tends to be the vibe, um, that comes with it, then you are gonna prioritize some of those relationships more over, um, like, like cold leads or, or, you know, top of a funnel marketing type of terminology to borrow from the secular world. So, um, all that to be said, there's this assumption, there's this notion that social media, um, and social ministry is void of real relationships. And I would just, I would debunk that and say that I think that that's not entirely true. Um, I agree to a point that it can be done that way and, um, that, that this ministry, that this focus in your church needs some very particular and very, um, deliberate attention.

Nick Clason (06:34):
Like it cannot just, in my personal opinion, it cannot be put on autopilot anymore. It cannot be put on the back burner. There needs to be a person more than a volunteer and more than someone's like, uh, section of their full-time hours devoted to social media. Like you probably need a full-on person, um, not someone to do double duty. Like, like even right now, um, I am a youth pastor, but I'm like on a team of three and of the three, I'm the one tasked with digital and video and social media, website, whatever, right? Like that in and of itself is a full-time job. And sometimes my youth ministry duties have actually, like, you know, this week I had to make calls to interview students about baptism, um, and we're onboarding a bunch of new students to volunteer. Like sometimes those things feel like they're in the way of my digital stuff and that, that's out of balance for me personally.

Nick Clason (07:34):
Um, but that's my point in saying that this digital of it's all consuming, it just takes up such a gigantic portion and it it is vast and it is huge. And, um, and there's a lot of opportunity and there's a lot of potential. And so to just dump it on someone as like a, hey, 10 hours of your week, like it's, that is so hard. It's gonna be very difficult for that person to be able to, you know, to make, to make, uh, that 10 hours work for them the way that you're probably hoping that it would work. So in Covid, right, we learned that we're not built to be completely isolated. And so just social, um, and that's, that's the whole, that's the whole origin of this podcast is I felt like we were debating, um, when I started this podcast in late 2022, I guess mid 2022, um, we were debating between in-person ministry and digital ministry, especially where I was, we had, we were still working and operating out of a lot of the rules that we had built for C O V with the show that we had made for C O V D.

Nick Clason (08:38):
Like, we hadn't let that go. We were still producing it weekly. Um, and we had found a way to pivot from strictly online to a more in-person model where groups watched it in host homes. Um, and then they discussed the, the message afterwards. And I thought it was incredibly ingenious and innovative. Um, but there were a lot of people in our church that that didn't, and they were ready to just quote unquote go back. And, you know, we had a, a marketing guy, and if you listen to some of our first, I think like seven episodes, um, Matt was actually the co-host of this podcast. Uh, we both made cross-country moves. And, um, I, I don't know what happened to him. I never got him back, really. I mean, we still talk, but he would keep saying like, yeah, yeah, I just gotta get my computer set up, gotta get my computer set up.

Nick Clason (09:22):
And eventually I was like, all right, Matt's not getting his computer set up. I'm just, I I got a produce weekly episode, so I can't wait on him anymore, right? So, uh, here we are and I'm just kinda doing this thing. Anyway, besides point Matt marketing, honestly, genius guru in my opinion. He said, the world we live in is now hybrid. In fact, Barna did a study, we did a couple episodes on it, I'll link to them in the show notes, um, did a couple episodes on the findings that we found from Barna study, and they, they titled it the, the state of hybrid church or something like that. And what it said, what it found was that especially the younger generations, the generations that are going to be filling our pews and churches here in the next couple years, gen Z and millennials said a hybrid, um, version of church is going to suit them very well.

Nick Clason (10:11):
What that often scares us with on two fronts is, number one, it feels like we're shifting away from in person. And I think a lot of times in person, and I've talked about this multiple times, I think a lot of times in person, room or moment or feeling is for the, the vanity of the pastor, and not even in like a sinful or bad way, but just like, man, getting up in front of a room full of people feels really good and you feel like you feel like you've done something and you've been somewhere and there's, there's a shot of like adrenaline into your like arm every time you get up there to preach. Even I, I find myself like finding more value from preaching to a live room of, of humans with interaction, um, like just, you know, face-to-face interaction. Um, then I, then I do from a, a TikTok video that goes viral wave over like 3000 something views.

Nick Clason (11:02):
Like, it just, it doesn't feel the same. And I get it. And you know what? I don't know that it is the same. I think you have a much more captive audience, even in a room of a few hundred than you do, um, with a, a short form under 62nd video that that has over a thousand something views, right? All that to be said, I'm not proposing that, that you throw one quote unquote baby out with a bathwater. We live in a hybrid world, right? So I found this stat incredibly fascinating. 76% of American surveyed ha uh, have a friend that they've met online only they've never met in person. Right? Now, you might be thinking, how is that possible? Again, if you're older, think younger generations gaming and, and you know, chat rooms and whatever and whatnot. Like of course in the nineties chat rooms were pedophiles want to hang out, and they probably still do, right?

Nick Clason (11:55):
But, but 76% of Americans have a friend in some way, shape or form gaming social media that they've never met in person. Like I have an anecdotal real example. I have a friend named Dan that, um, for the first three to six months of our life, or not life of our relationship life, , uh, it was strictly online. Uh, many of you know I've told this story, but I started at my last church on day one of Covid and went immediately into lockdown. So the number of real live human beings at my church that I met was very, very small. The number of real life human beings that I met on Zoom after that was very, very large. And, um, you know, I had met a decent number of the staff, at least from my interview or on my first day on the job, but then to meet other people.

Nick Clason (12:49):
And Dan was a, just a regular church attender volunteer who led a, a hybrid, not hybrid, actually strictly online small group. I had a relationship with Dan. Um, and, and he even said, he's like, you are like the poster child for me, or the poster example of what it looks like for somebody who, uh, says like, you can't make friends with someone online. He's like, we totally made friends, you know, with each other online. And so these are examples, both empirical data. 76% of Americans say, I have a friend with someone who's completely online. And even in my own life, like I would say I had a real relationship with him, um, it would've been great to be sitting in the same living room or whatever, but at the same time, you know what, every Tuesday night, I just got my laptop out in the comfort of my own home brew, a cup of my own coffee that I personally enjoyed more than like a cake cup that someone was gonna gimme at their house.

Nick Clason (13:49):
And we sat down for small group. And you know, what was funny was like our church would do this thing where like you'd watch the live stream on YouTube, and this was the archetype for our student ministry. The group's team of course, stole it, but we'd watch the video on YouTube, and then everyone would log in to their campus specific zooms via a link in the description, and then a moderator there would break everyone out into breakout rooms. So they would sort of have control over the entire call, and then they would give a warning after like an hour or so that all the groups would, uh, be, be closing down by the moderator who's just literally sitting there out in the waiting room, just kinda waiting for people to be kicked out of their breakout rooms and reassign them or whatever. Super boring job I've done a million times youth ministry.

Nick Clason (14:33):
Uh, so a couple times those ended and we, our entire small group just jumped off and got into our very own room, and had group until like 11 or 12. We weren't, you know, at that point we weren't talking about spiritual stuff. We were just joking around, goofing off, having fun, whatever, right? My point is, relationships can exist in an online space. You just have to be deliberate. You just have to be intentional, and you have to be able, willing, willing to massage those relationships. So let's talk about, um, some hybrid ways that relationships can exist.

Nick Clason (15:14):
So some of you might know this, um, but a couple weeks ago, my, my wife's mom, my mother-in-law, uh, passed away from a two plus year long battle with cancer. It was, it was rough, man, like, not gonna lie, but, um, the thing I wanna kind of extract or highlight is the moment that the day that she passed away and that it became more public because of social media. Again, another example, um, my phone was flooded with text messages. My wife's phone was flooded like threefold, tenfold with text messages. Um, every single one of those people were people that we had met in person at one moment in time or another, whether they be a family member, whether they'd be a friend, whether they'd be a former colleague or work associate from another job that we'd been at. They'd all been people we'd met in real life person before.

Nick Clason (16:12):
However, the relationship at that moment existed in a hybrid space. Very few people in that exact moment were with us. I mean, I, I had to drive from Texas all the way back to Ohio, so the only people with me were me and my two kids. Um, and her, she was with her sister and with some family friends, and then everybody else reached out and provided love and care and support via text message that that is an example of a hybrid relationship. You know what I mean? Um, and, and some people were people that I work with now at the church I'm at at now. Other people were people I worked, worked with in the past that reached out either way, right? Like they're all people I knew, but they're all showing up for me in a hybrid way. So, uh, I wanna talk about a few, uh, examples of like other businesses that we might interact with in the world in with hybrid sort of interactions.

Nick Clason (17:22):
Let's dive in examples of real life hybrid interactions. My favorite of this is Home Depot, right? I interact with Home Depot at the store level. I drive up, I go into the store, I grab 98 cents of plumbing tape, right? Uh, that's an example of me interacting with Home Depot at a physical level. Okay? All right. So another example of course is me interacting with Home Depot at an online level. I might go on the website and I might see how much of a certain item is in stock that, but I'm not in the store. I'm completely in my house. I'm looking at all my computer on the app, but the, the app actually is my favorite feature. When I'm in the store. I almost never, like, if I walk around in the store for like more than two minutes and I can't figure out where an item might be, I immediately pull up the app, which often I've uninstalled from my phone, so I reinstall it.

Nick Clason (18:25):
Then I like, almost, the first thing I do when I walk into Home Depot is begin to reinstall the Home Depot app, find my local Home Depot, the one I'm physically standing in, and then I look that item up, whatever it is, to try and find it, and then it'll tell me exactly where it is, what aisle, what bay, and how many more they have in stock. I love that feature. That's hybrid. I'm in person, I'm in the store, but I'm interacting with a digital piece of technology, uh, you know, for my relationship with Home Depot. Another o another example is a dentist office, right? You go to a physical visit. But I love when a service like this has a great website, especially for being able to book appointments or being able to reach out. This last week, I brought my car to an auto mechanic shop.

Nick Clason (19:13):
I called them, not there, called them, right? That's an example of me from my house calling them. That's old school technology. You get it right? Then I show up, I'm in their office. But then when I was done, you know what they did? They sent me a text message to let me know that my car was ready. You see all these things, and I, I think like in a lot of ways, like when we talk about digitization or hybridization of church and of ministry, we don't even know what that looks like. So right now, in a lot of ways that's social media, that's video content, but the reality is like, some of this is uncharted territory. So for 2023, for right now, for someone just starting out, what are some examples? What are some ways that your church can live and exist in hybrid ministry?

Nick Clason (20:01):
All right, so like I said, I think a little bit of this is like pioneering uncharted territory, pilgrim's progress. Like, we don't know some of these answers, but, um, what are some examples of ways that your church can, uh, live and and be hybrid? So the first one is probably the most obvious one, and probably the easiest one, I would say is your Sunday sermon. Okay? So what are ways that your Sunday sermon can exist in a hybrid space? Well, first and foremost, right? You can, while someone is sitting in the auditorium, they can interact with and engage with your sermon notes, or they can interact and engage with, um, some self-guided like outlines or ways for them to take notes. So, like in my church, my pastor puts his notes on our church app. Um, it's honestly, it's essentially probably the manuscript that he's up there preaching with as I've looked at it.

Nick Clason (20:58):
Like, it's very thorough. Um, and my guess is that that's like a, that's a workload decision, right? Like he already built this. So if he just copy, if, if they or someone just copy and paste and put this into the app, uh, that's not that much more work for him. My personal favorite example is the you version events feature. So in everyone's you version Bible app that most people have downloaded on their phones, if not, definitely recommend it. Cause again, it's another way to interact with people in a hybrid way. Um, there's an events tab that you can create, like a self-guided sort of outline, and then people can, can take and add notes to certain headers or certain bible verses, um, that, that are related to or interact with the passage. And then they can also link out to like videos or other, like further discussions.

Nick Clason (21:51):
One of the things I try to do is I try to challenge myself to add one option of a, a link out from a u version event for deeper study or for more information, or for a longer YouTube video that I didn't, you know, didn't have time to show or didn't have time to look like fully, you know, unpack. I try to challenge myself to do that every week. Again, to just think hybrid, right? Brady Shearer has made this phrase famous, but the other, the additional 167 hours of somebody's week. So then beyond that moment, beyond that Sunday service, um, you can of course rip out the audio. Um, if you're already live streaming, um, you can have live stream, you can post those videos to YouTube. You can, uh, long form podcast content on a podcast feed. That's a way for it to be hybrid.

Nick Clason (22:45):
And then finally, ways for that to live on and, and find its way into that, that intersection of your church, people being reminded of the message and people from outside your church may be discovering and stumbling upon your message are short form Instagram reels, TikTok videos, YouTube shorts. Um, if you're already live streaming your content, you're sitting on a goldmine of social media content. You don't have to, uh, come up with as much social media content as you did in the past. You already have it. You have the short, or you have the long form video. Clip it up into minute segments. Find a good hook, get a good editor. And, uh, hey, if you don't have a good editor, but you're interested in it, reach out. Um, I'm interested in, uh, starting something, you know, kind on the side for myself to be doing this and serving churches in that, that way.

Nick Clason (23:38):
Um, I don't exactly have a framework for that or what that looks like. Hit me up on dms, on TikTok, or, you know, reach out to me via YouTube, all those links in the show notes@hybridministry.xyz. What about groups? What about relationships? How do you hybridize relationships, right? Because that's sort of the basis for this whole thing, is that social isn't, isn't built on relationships. And I would agree with that in the nitty gritty. Like when, you know, when my mother-in-law passes away, I want someone to really show up for me or really call me or really, you know, text me, um, not just, you know, interact with them at a, at a digital or social social media type level, right? But for a lot of people, the discovering of groups or finding their place or finding their people, that's half of the battle. And so if your church does not have some sort of group finder, I, I would highly recommend doing that.

Nick Clason (24:36):
If your church is about groups in some way, shape, or form that are open that people opt themselves into, then get yourself a group finder, a catalog, if you will, of the options available at your church for people to find and discover real authentic community. Because you and I know that community is really what changes things. It's what takes a church from their church to my church. So get on a group finder of some way, shape, or form. And then once you're in those groups, here are other ways that, that those groups exist and live in a hybrid sort of sense. You might use a infrastructure like Facebook group, you might use a GroupMe, you might use a group chat, or you might use some other tool feature that someone's gonna develop down the road. Maybe I'll do it and get rich, I don't know.

Nick Clason (25:23):
But, um, for the groups to have some sort of calendar of events, a place for them to have message boards with announcements, um, text messages to interact back and forth, prayer requests, all kinds of different stuff, but a place for the group to live beyond when the group meets, right? Again, the other 167 hours of that group's relationship. When is that? Where is that? When does that take place? The last area, so we talked about sermons, we talked about relationships. Now let's talk about information. You know, uh, churches more than just information people are distilled down to more than just the information that they, uh, put into their brains, okay? But like another example of ways that, that things can exist in a hybrid sort of way is some classes. So you already have your Sunday morning service. You probably already have groups. People probably can't devote too many more hours to the church, but maybe they do want to grow.

Nick Clason (26:24):
Maybe they want to grow in their knowledge of theology, or maybe they want to grow in, in a specific topic. Um, a dating marriage, right? Whatever the case might be. Your church with the 40 hours a week in your office can film some content and, and put up a catalog or a library of courses, like on a website or on an app, six week course, eight week course, something like that. So again, if someone's really committed, they may not have the time to drive back over to your church and sit through a class, find childcare, all the things. But once the kids go to bed, if they wanna pull up in their laptop and learn more, grow more in the area of theology, love, dating, marriage, spiritual gifts, right? Like you name it, you can offer a library of some of those content. I mean, products already sort of exist for that right now for churches, right now.

Nick Clason (27:14):
Media is an example of it. Um, but again, I've found that to be more small groupy content. So you can create something, you, if there's a need, you can scratch that itch, a leadership type academy. And you might even have like a leadership academy for high level leaders in your, in your, um, organization in your church that come together every so often in person. But then after they come together, if the primary goal of it is, is information and knowledge, um, and then, and information transfer, you can accomplish that for sure. You can accomplish that in a hybrid sort of way. Um, more than just short form video sermon content. You can provide short form, social media, TikTok, YouTube type content. Um, like about any topic right now, I'm doing like a little bit of a theology 1 0 1, like a deep dive into like certain areas and elements.

Nick Clason (28:06):
Um, and I'm putting posting on TikTok two times a week. It's a little mini-series that people probably just like randomly scrolling through, aren't gonna notice that they're all like interwoven and connected together. But in my mind they are. And so anyone who sees it, they're, they're gonna learn something more about God or about Jesus, or about creation or about salvation, or about the Holy Spirit or whatever the case might be. Um, because I don't have time to always get into all that, right? Like whatever our series is that's sort of driving and dictating, um, what's, what's being taught from the platform. But there are other necessary things that I think people, my students need to know that I don't have time for it, but this is a way that I can create time for it in the other hours of the week. Um, there are also examples and ways to do longform, you know, uh, styles not just short form.

Nick Clason (28:57):
So audio podcasts are huge. A lot of adults, something like 80 something percent of adults listen to three hours of podcasts a week. So, um, I think, um, Mariners, like Eric Geiger out of Mariners is doing a phenomenal job because the thing I love about him is he's conservative theologically for sure. Um, and so he's not just like out there trying to like get vanity metrics or whatever, right? But the thing he's doing is he's, he's finding ways to use the technology to teach deeper, more robust, you know, truth. And so he's doing a thing like, uh, a podcast called like the, the things that didn't make it into the sermon. Basically, if you're a pastor and you've done this before, you know that you, you prepare a load of content, but then you have to start cutting to get it down to a certain minute mark, right?

Nick Clason (29:46):
So he's doing a podcast on all the things he had to cut from his sermon, um, once a week to just dive deeper into more information. Um, and I, I think that that's brilliant. You know, I think that's a brilliant way, uh, to just add more value to the, the people in your church's, you know, life. Um, and if they're interested in it, that's great. A couple years ago, we, back when Facebook Live was a really big thing, me and another pastor on my staff, we sat, sat down for a thing called Tuesdays at two, and we just, uh, unpacked the sermon from sort of our eyes and our, our vantage point, you know? Um, and we would just have a conversation, um, as sort of interview style. And I mean, he was a licensed biblical counselor, so, uh, he was just a wealth of knowledge.

Nick Clason (30:31):
And so I, I almost operated more like as the host, and I would just toss him questions and let him sort of like unpack and untangle, you know, take the, the theology or the, the preaching and, and bring it down to more of like a boots on the ground level. At least. At least that was the goal. So all kinds of like ideas out there of ways that you can service and serve your congregation in a hybrid sort of way that is not void of relationship, that is meaningful and that people in your church will take advantage of. You just have to think hybrid. So I'd encourage you lean into it. Like I said, we're on the, a little bit the pioneering front because we had solutions for digital pre covid. It was mostly live streaming your service. Then in C O V I D, we all went full bore into it, and it was uncomfortable and unfamiliar.

Nick Clason (31:24):
So once restrictions lifted, we went back to what was familiar. Many of us went back to what was familiar, and I'll just encourage you to not abandon some of those things, but, but listen for and look for ways that you can show up in the other hours of your church members weeks. Those are gonna be what's important and valuable to them. Well, hey everyone, if you found this, uh, podcast helpful, please share it with a friend. Help us get the word out, hybrid ministry.xyz. We provide complete full show transcripts for every single episode that we've ever produced. Also, head to the blog section of that and you can grab our free social media checklist, what to do every time you post a social media, and our free complete guide to posting a TikTok from scratch, from start to finish. That is on there. And again, we are on YouTube now at this episode being the first one. Hey, to everyone on YouTube, check that out if you will get a link for that as in the show notes. And until next time, talk to y'all later. Stay hybrid.

This also comes with a complete digital downloadable guide: https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/ebook
Or check out the complete YouTube Video on it: https://youtu.be/oxBn-p9O-eg
As always, every episode available with FREE transcripts at: http://www.hybridministry.xyz
And hang with Nick on TikTok at: https://www.tiktok.com/@clasonnick
FREE Checklist: https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/free-social-media-checklist

TIMECODES
TIMECODES
00:00-00:53 – Intro
00:53-03:11 - Why TikTok, Reels and Short Form Video?
03:11-03:47- - Logging Into TikTok for the First Time
03:47-05:56 - Video Menu Options
05:56-07:03 - Profile Menu Options
07:03-12:07 - Creating a Video
12:07-17:21 - Editing the Video
17:21-19:34 - Time to Post it!
19:34-20:46 - Make sure you do this ONE THING before posting to other platforms
20:46- - Outro

TRANSCRIPT
Nick Clason (00:01):
So have I already ruined my TikTok account? Here's a guide on how to post TikTok from start to finish. Hey everyone, my name is Nick Clason. I am the host of the Hybrid Ministry podcast, and this is a little special YouTube slash podcast episode I'm excited to bring to you on the framework for posting a TikTok in 2023. Now, there's a lot of things out there about like SEO and keywords and strategies and tips and hacks, and in fact, I actually have a checklist that I have pre created for all social media, just a basic like, uh, have you done this? Have you done that for posting to social media at your church? You can get the description or you can get the link for that in the description, the video down below, uh, or in the show notes, hybrid ministry.xyz. But why TikTok? Like why of all the platforms that we have, why TikTok?

Nick Clason (01:01):
And here's why. Every platform right now, Facebook, Instagram reels, YouTube shorts, they are all going after this short form video content. It's like lightning in a bottle. It's so easy to go viral. Um, and when I say easy, it's like you post the dumbest thing and it goes viral, but then you spend a lot of time and effort and energy on something that you think is amazing and it gets like 14 views. And so the reality is it's this very finicky, very like, hard to like land what is going to go viral, but when you see other social medias copying another social platform's kind of bread and butter, it's worth noting and it's worth, uh, going all in on. And so when every single major social platform is copying TikTok in their, uh, their, their for you sort of algorithm, you need to make that a priority.

Nick Clason (02:00):
It's, I would liken it to win Instagram stole stories from Snapchat, and now TikTok is actually stealing B reels, uh, post, now they call it the now feature in TikTok. So, uh, if you've never logged into TikTok, uh, or you have, and you know, you should, you've heard me talk about the importance of short form video, but you, you open it and it's overwhelming. You don't know what to do or you think you know what to do, but then you get kind of turned around editing videos or whatever and whatnot. This is meant to be a, uh, a thorough guide to every feature available in TikTok. Now, some caveats, I've really only been using TikTok for about three to six months now. Um, I too is just as much of a novice when I opened it. They're constantly evolving and changing, and I'm not even a hundred percent sure if I know all the features. I tried to comb through each and every feature as I was in preparation for this video, but there are several I haven't even used. And so

Nick Clason (02:59):
I just wanna be clear with that. Like, uh, I'm still at a very basic level, and so if, if I can do it, what we're doing in our church, you too can, can get up some very basic sort of content. So when you log into TikTok for the very first time, a video is probably going to start blaring at you at full volume. Okay? That can be a little bit disconcerting and throw you off. You're a rocker because most other platforms keep videos muted. TikTok for whatever reason is the opposite, so turn your volume all the way down, or if you just tap the screen, the video, whatever video they play, um, it'll pause it. Now, uh, if you're getting on TikTok for the first time and they're feeding you things that you don't wanna see, they're not, you're not interested in, hold that video down and just click, not interested.

Nick Clason (03:43):
Do that a few times and you're gonna teach the algorithm what you want to see. So when you, uh, are sitting there looking at a video, video that TikTok fed to you, you have, uh, several different video menu options. And so I want to, uh, run through what those are. The first one is you can, on the right hand side of your screen, you can follow the creator. Uh, that little plus sign right there will give you a, uh, follow, um, or not follow kind of option. Now, if you look at the very, very top of your screen, you're going to be looking at either following or for you, you're either in your following algorithm, all the people that you're following, or you're in your for U algorithm. TikTok will almost naturally bring you to the for U algorithm. So just be aware of that.

Nick Clason (04:34):
Even when you click follow the people, the videos that you're seeing may not be coming from followers. That's, again, that's one of the things that makes this algorithm unique. Um, you can, like the video, that's the heart. You can comment on it, you can save it. That's a little save, uh, little bookmark looking icon there. You can share it. That's the arrow out. You can send it to people within the TikTok app. You can, you can download the video and save it, or you can copy a link and send it. Uh, and then the bottom, uh, icon there, a little round one kinda looks like a, a record turning. That's the sound, that's the audio that is being used. Could be like an original audio from the creator, or it could be like a sound or a trend or something like that. All of that is to you.

Nick Clason (05:15):
On the right hand side of the screen at the bottom, you have five menu options. You have your home button and the subcategories for that, like I said, up at the top of the following. And the four you, then you have the, now that's TikTok, s b real copycat. It's almost identical to what Be Real is doing. Uh, you got the plus button there, then very dead center, that's your create button, okay? Then next you have your little envelope, that's your inbox. And for there you get your notifications, dms, likes, follows, et cetera. That's all the things that you, uh, when people interact with your content or your videos. And then finally, the last thing on the very right hand bottom corner, uh, is your profile. That's where you have your videos. Um, once you click on that, you'll see, uh, another kind of menu across the top.

Nick Clason (06:02):
Uh, the left most option is your videos, everything that you've posted kind of on your grid. The next one are your private videos. The next one are your saved videos. Remember that bookmark icon. And personally, I like to use that as a way to save ideas. So if I'm going through TikTok and there's a sound or an idea that I think is fun or interesting that I can use later, I'll save it. That's then where I'll find it. And what I'll personally do is I'll save that on my personal account, and then I will share that video to my ministry account. Then I will switch accounts, log over into my ministry account, go into my dms, and get that video from myself, and then I'll use that, um, either that sound or that idea or that trend or whatever I need from that video, maybe a filter, whatever that I'll use to them post.

Nick Clason (06:46):
Um, moving on on that menu, you got your liked videos. And then finally, um, there at the top, you can edit your profile, your link, all the other necessary and pertinent information there. Okay. Now, how do you, that's just simply viewing a video and kind of navigating through your basic menu items. So how do you then create a video? So the way to create a video is on your home screen. You can tap that plus button, all right? And once you tap that plus button, you're given several options. All right? At the very, very top center, uh, there's the option to add sound. You can add a sound that way by clicking it and searching for a sound. Or like I said, when you see that record player on a video, you can click on that. Um, and once you're, once you click on that, there will be a, it'll pull up all the videos, uh, that have used that sound.

Nick Clason (07:37):
You can click use this sound option. That is personally, I think the easiest way to do that. That's why I like to save those videos and then share them so I don't have to go and try and find those sounds. Again, that's my way of kind of archiving and remembering where those sounds are. Now one thing worth noting, if you're on a personal account, you can use any sound you want. If you are a business account, those are much more limiting. There are ways around it, um, like recording the video and then in post-production in like Adobe Premier Pro or something like that, dubbing that sound over. Then when you post it, it's gonna be technically an original sound. It's not gonna come from the trend sound. Uh, there are pros and cons. Uh, I've talked about this in past podcast episodes. There are pros and cons to, um, personal and business accounts.

Nick Clason (08:23):
Uh, you just gotta choose what matters most to you. I think probably the biggest downside of not doing a business account is your link and bio isn't really a link. It's just typed out and people have to like, then go type it into a browser so they can't click and go to your stuff. That's a pretty big downside, and you don't get as many analytics. Um, you still can see views and likes and those types of things by going to each individual video, but you're not able to see trends. And so once things start getting going for you, you probably do wanna swap over to a business account. Just know that it's gonna limit the sounds that you are able to use as a business account on your TikTok platform. All right, so you've clicked to create video. At the bottom of your screen, you're gonna have this big red record button that is gonna probably feel very familiar to you.

Nick Clason (09:09):
It's gonna look like a camera phone or something like that. Right above that, that red button you have the, you have a thing that says 15 s. That's for 15 seconds to the left of that. If you slide 30, uh, or 60 s I'm sorry, and then slide again, you have three m three minutes, okay? Uh, you can shave the time down after you record. So if you don't know how long it's gonna be and you just want to go the three minutes, then if you don't take that full time, it's not gonna post the full three minutes like black at the end of your video, right? So, uh, just know that going into it, if you're using a sound, like if a sound, you click use sound and it's already loaded at the top of your video there. When you click 15 s or 60 s, um, you switch to that often right below it, it'll say, this sound will only allow you to record for a maximum of seven seconds or something like that.

Nick Clason (09:59):
All right? And so then, you know, oh, I can just stick with the 15 seconds and I don't need all the other stuff. Right? Okay. So, um, to the left of the record button are, is your effects menu. So there, that's where you're gonna get like your green screen, or right now there's a delay mirror effect that's kind of trending on TikTok that's there. Um, things that like rotate through on your head that my TikTok account personally, like I do this thing for football and all the NFL teams rotate through. I have so many views on those, it's ridiculous, but that's what's helping kind of grow my audience. Um, that's where you're gonna get those types of effects. To the right of that is your upload button, okay? That's where you would upload a previously recorded video or photo from your phone, from your camera roll that you already shot outside of the TikTok app, for example.

Nick Clason (10:46):
Um, and so then at the top right you have, uh, the flip button that's just simply to flip your camera forward facing, rear facing beneath that you have, uh, your speed. So you have different speeds, 0.3 x 0.5 x one x, two x, and three x, uh, for recording speeds. Uh, below that you have the retouch option, full disclosure, and never used that thing. It's kinda like a filter thing. Beneath it, you have another filter option. This one I think is more about image, less about the specifics of like a retouch sort of thing. Beneath that, you have your timer. That's where you can like set your phone down and give it like a three second head start, so you can walk away from it and do a dance or whatever the case might be. Um, you have a three second, ten second option. When you do that.

Nick Clason (11:29):
Beneath that you have your q and a option. That's where sometimes you'll see a person's comment on the screen and you can reply with video to the comment. All right? So once you're ready to record, those are all your menu options. Now that we're ready to record, tap that record button. When you wanna start, and when you wanna stop immediately to the right of the button, you have two menu options that are now available. After recording, you have delete, it looks like, kind of like a backspace button. If you want to delete what you recorded, start over, try again. You can do that. There. You also have a red check mark. Um, and that's where you then accept the video. And now you move on into the next sort of editing phase of the, the video. Now, your new menu, once you're into the editing phase, in the top middle of the section, you have your sound.

Nick Clason (12:15):
If you haven't added a sound yet, that's where you can add a sound. Um, if you've already recorded a sound, a video with the sound, that's where you could delete that sound if you no longer want that sound mm-hmm. on the right hand side of the screen, um, you have, you are at the very top. You have your text on screen option, that's where you click that and you can type that out, um, on your left. Then you now have three different menu options, um, from your, from your text editor, right? You have the square with the A around it. If you, if you select that, that will add a border to the text on the screen. So it might be easier to read if you select it. Again, that will put a full background on that. And if you select it, again, it'll add a background, but now it's transparent and if you select it again, it'll go back to your original without any of those effects on it.

Nick Clason (13:04):
Then to the right of that, you have your paragraph alignment, you have center, then left alignment, then right alignment. And then to the right of that, you have your person with a speech. That's where you often get that voiceover effect. That says, um, that, that's used as a hook. A lot of times on videos, uh, if you choose that, it will make that, um, text on screen. It will turn it into, uh, a voiceover. And there, once you select that, you'll be given, uh, different options, different types of sounds to play around with. Um, once you select that, the menus you have are recommended motion creative vocals. Those are categories for the types of sounds, and then sub options within those. Okay? To determine what your text, uh, looks like, um, you have the classic option. You have the typewriter option, the handwriting option, neon option, and the CIF option.

Nick Clason (13:57):
And those. So you got your, your a, your paragraph, your speech, and then to the right of that, that's where you get your text, um, looking options. Okay? And then from there you can select colors and they do swipe from right to left so that you can pick which color you want on, on, on screen there. All right. So when you're done, select, done, pretty self-explanatory. The last thing that you can do then is once that, uh, text is now on the screen, if you select it, it'll pop up three menu options. All right? So you can, uh, text to speech, you can add that feature, or if you already did it, that's where you can change, uh, the voice or whatever the case may be. You can set the duration. How long does that text remain on screen? That's where like if, uh, at a certain sound effect or element or whatever, something pops up, uh, you would drag, you would drag the text to start there or to stop there.

Nick Clason (14:49):
Okay? And then the last thing thing is to edit, to actually like rewrite or, you know, you had a typo to go in there and change that. All right, moving on down beyond the text, you have your sticker options. That's things like your mentions, hashtags, you can add polls, support nonprofit, add a location, ask a question, reply the date, the time, all kinds of things. If you're familiar with Instagram Stories editor, it's very similar to the sticker options that you see on Instagram Stories. I've actually never even seen that menu option until I went to prepare for this video and I was like, oh, I didn't know all this stuff was on here. Um, beneath that, you have effects, okay? And so across the top, once you click effects, you have your trending effects, then you got visual motion effects, transitions, and, uh, split options.

Nick Clason (15:31):
So you can kind of explore different effects, things to add to your video and what, whatever, and whatnot. Right there, beneath that, you have your filters. It's just gonna change the look, feel your video. Beneath that, you have studio, that's where you're actually editing, cutting your video, okay? So if you wanna do something to edit the video, click on the video. It's gonna give you a video bar and a sound bar. If, if you have, uh, like just the, the audio from the video that you recorded, they'll be together. If you have a audio, like a song, those are gonna be two kind of separate things, okay? So if you click on your, your top option, your video option, once you do that, a little menu option down beneath will, will pop up. So you have split, you can change the speed, you can adjust the volume, you can rotate it, and ultimately you can delete it.

Nick Clason (16:20):
Uh, split is a great way. If you have like one big, long thing, um, and you're trying to do a little cuts, you drag to the spot, you split it, and then you delete the rest of the video, then you may add in another video that, that same video, probably do another cut, split delete on the front, delete it on the backside. I hope that makes sense. Um, so then to the right of your video bar option, right? You can click full screen and then there's a plus button, and that's where you can then add that video. Like I was just talking about. If you select the audio, you got your video bar, your, your audio bar, if you select audio, you can add your audio option. Once it's added, you can either replace the sound, adjust the volume, or choose to delete it. You save at the top right and you cancel at the top left.

Nick Clason (17:05):
Moving back out to our editor, um, beneath that you have your captions option A recommend a caption for almost any talking head video on TikTok. That's how, uh, SEO and search is gonna find certain topics. Beneath that, you have your Noise reducer, then your audio effects, and then finally your privacy settings. So once you're done there at the bottom, you then have two options. Bottom of your, your screen on the left, you have the stories option. And then to the right of that, you'll have your next option. Next is where you go to kind of tap to get to your final step before you actually post it. Okay? And so, um, there is where you would type in your caption, different from your captions on screen, right? But your caption of your actual video, the one that kind of like floats up, and then the likes and stuff stuff, follow it.

Nick Clason (17:50):
Um, you would also include your hashtags there. And then to the right of your, uh, caption box is where you would select your cover. If you click on that, you can drag your finger to a certain part of the video. You can also add title and text on top of it. Um, the, the title and text, it should be noted that those don't show up when someone's swiping through and just finding your video, those are mostly seen when someone lands on your profile and you want them to know what the video is. Okay? So those, those could be helpful. Also, if you do have onscreen things different from your, your text option, your title, text options there, like I showed you, um, those will also show, um, if someone land on your profile, they'll just be in a different type of format than, than TikTok has to offer.

Nick Clason (18:36):
Um, if they're, uh, like I said, if they're scrolling past, so they won't display on that screen. Also, there you can tag people, you can add a location, you can add links, and here's what it's available on the links. You have books, minigame Alpha by Titan Breathwork, Buzzfeed Quizzes, Contra Profile, disco Loco, 3d, I R L List with Two Eyes, Quizlet, rotten Tomatoes, stat Muse, and Whisk. Um, never use any of those. So you can check those out. You can then choose, um, who can watch the video, allow comments, allow to, uh, allow, allow Stitch, allow high quality, upload more options, save to device. If you click on the more options, save to device, which I just finally turned off by the way, I couldn't figure out where to get that. That's where you get that. You can select your caption language, um, branded content and ads, and then there's an automatically shared to IG or text ig, ig stories, Snapchat.

Nick Clason (19:30):
And then the last thing is, um, you can either put it in drafts or you can post it. Last thing I'd recommend, if you are uploading this to other places, um, once you upload it, click uh, go back into your profile, click on the three ellipses option, um, click copy link, and then go to your browser on your phone or on your computer, and type in to Google save TikTok without video watermark or save TikTok video without watermark. If you copy and paste that link into there, it will then download you an option from TikTok without the TikTok watermark all over it. Then you can take that same video and you can post it to Instagram, Facebook, YouTube shorts. Um, one thing I've noticed personally, just very anecdotally, is that every time I would post a TikTok, um, and then Instagram with the watermark, Instagram would give me almost no views once I started removing that. Um, we, we've had videos go, you know, 20,000, 30,000, 40,000 views because we removed the watermark. Um, I think that the two are kind of competing against each other. Instagram wants to use them, TikTok wants you to use them, so just confuse them and think that they're both being used even though you, you are using both of them. And, uh, they, they just aren't seeing that. Um, and that's just algorithm and kind of AI

Nick Clason (20:46):
Stuff. All right, so, hey, thank you so much for hanging out and getting that guide if, uh, or getting this guide on how to, how to post TikTok, um, on your account. Listen, if you found this helpful, like subscribe, share, rate, review, all the things, check us out, hybridministry.xyz and check out the description for, um, not only the, the social media checklist, but also the checklist on this, um, the written form of this video on how to post a TikTok, download that, put it on your desk, put it above your, your computer so that when you're posting, you have it as a reference. And until next time, we'll talk to you later.

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TIMECODES
00:00-00:36 - Intro
00:36-07:22 - The lessons I've learned from starting a YouTube channel during COVID
07:22-10:31 - Why start with YouTube?
10:31-13:13 - How to get indexed in searches on YouTube
13:13-16:26 - Ministry Implications
16:26-20:36 - YouTube Best Practices
20:36-22:09 - Outro

TRANSCRIPT
Nick Clason (00:00):
What is up everybody? And welcome to another episode of the Hybrid Ministry podcast. Excited to be with you today. I am Nick Clason, your host, and today I wanted to talk about YouTube, and I actually wanted to talk about why I think it is useful for churches to quit live streaming their sermons. Now, hear me out. Hear me out. Before I dive into all that, let me just get a couple of things off the bat here said. So first and foremost, I wanna talk about YouTube. I don't like to talk about things on this show that I don't have a lot of experience with. And so today is an exception because I have almost zero experience with YouTube. And so for you to understand why and why and the history and everything like that, I just want to give a quick overview. So the church that I most recently served at, not where I am now, but where I most recently before here served at, had a almost 600 YouTube subscriber channel and over 300 or something like that, videos published on it.

Nick Clason (01:22):
The reason for that being that we started our YouTube channel and our YouTube show, the first day of Covid. And so our YouTube channel and strategy was primarily a digital version of what we would do if we were in the room. So we would think, let's do a game. And in our defense, I think what we did game wise and announcement wise and host wise was a little more YouTube centric than just simply throwing a camera in the back of the room and us pretending there were students there. But instead we were doing it a live stream. So what I mean by that is we built a studio and instead of a game, a screen game or something, we would do a segment. And it was almost like competition or challenge based. So I mean, if you think Mr. Beast or any of those big YouTubers, it was things like that.

Nick Clason (02:27):
So we were trying to think outside the box and trying to morph and do student ministry in a YouTube sort of way. One of the things that I think shot us in the foot was, first of all, we did it in a pinch. So we did it immediately and we pivoted very fast. And what we did and what we created, I personally was very proud of. But all that being said, once Covid began to run its course and things were over and opening a little bit more, people were looking for an in-person experience. And so what we were producing online was really no longer fulfilling the need that it needed to. So it probably needed an adjustment, and we started to make those adjustments. And what I mean by that is once Covid was over and kids were not stuck in their room, they're probably not that interested in our little segment or our little trivia game that we're playing or whatever on the screen.

Nick Clason (03:29):
But I do think that we had tons of formidable and useful spiritual content sermons, messages, whatever and whatnot that were totally useful. The problem was we did it in a full, long form show, so to speak. And so just youth group games and announcements and worship and all those things led into the message. And so you didn't get to the message until about 16 minutes on the actual YouTube thing. Typically the shows around 30 minutes or so. And so it was about half stuff and half a message. You get it If you're programming in the room, it's exactly what you would think as far as format wise, okay? And all of that. I was at a multi-site megachurch. All of that was handled by a creative team, a video editor, an audio producer, our tech department handled that, handled, uploading, posting, making it live, all those things.

Nick Clason (04:29):
And so I helped produce the content. I helped think through some of the philosophy and the strategy of it, but I was not boots on the ground in the weeds, hands on with doing, posting all the YouTube content and growing the channel. And in a lot of ways, the 600 something subs subscribers were a response to what happened during Covid, right? Everyone was subscribing to YouTube channels. Everyone that called our church home, parents, students alike, they subscribing to our channel. All right? So now fast forward to where I am now, and I'm at a little bit smaller church. We got a team of three, but we have around the same student count, or slightly more than the campus that I was at. And so we have a pretty frequent schedule Sunday, Wednesday, Sunday, Wednesday. So every three days, there's something that we need to be thinking for, planning for, and prepping for.

Nick Clason (05:26):
Not to mention, the entire team of where I'm at is completely brand new. And so we are basically building something from the ground up. There was some stuff in place before and whatever and whatnot. But the reality is we're starting from the ground up. One of the things that we're starting from the ground up, we're continuing on with the Wednesday meeting times, Sunday meeting times, but we're launching and fleshing out a completely digital strategy. And so with all that being said, I wanna just give that caveat to this is my experience with YouTube. I have been very involved in the production of YouTube content. I've learned a lot of things, some dos and don'ts and whatevers and whatnots. But also we are at the church of, we are gonna be changing our name here in January. And so I actually secured the YouTube channel for our future name of our student ministry, which is still a secret to a lot of people.

Nick Clason (06:28):
So because of that, I have not started posting things to YouTube. What I have started doing is I have started beta testing our YouTube strategy more on a video filming and editing side of things. Is this a sustainable and scalable process that I can continue to implement beyond on a week to week type basis? And so I've been practicing some things, and so I think I feel pretty good about the workflow and rhythm to be able to pull some of these things off. And so I'm excited about launching a YouTube channel and account in January knowing that I'll be able to replicate what I've been doing. So that's sort the background and the history of at least my personal experience with YouTube. So why start with YouTube? Alright, I think YouTube is, is actually a really unique social media platform. It's the only one of its kind in the category of Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, Twitter, YouTube is owned by Google, and it's the only social media platform in that category of those kind of core FI four or five that is owned by Google.

Nick Clason (07:52):
So you got Google, you got Meta, and then you got TikTok, who's sort of like the third player, the owner there in that, right? You've probably heard this before, but YouTube is actually widely considered by many to be the second largest search engine in the world behind only Google. Some if you get real nitty gritty with it, some actually say it's not the second largest, it's the third largest because Google Images is technically larger. Bottom line, all three, Google search, Google images and YouTube are owned by the same parent company, Google. And regardless of that, right? YouTube is a search engine. And so who among us has not installed a light fixture from the help of a friendly person who posted a YouTube tutorial on YouTube for us to watch and consume and use, Okay? And because it's a search engine, I think it's actually a pretty strategic advantage that can be used by us as pastors and ministry leaders.

Nick Clason (08:55):
Because if you think about it, when you search for a video, right? Search more how to or think how to fix, how to answer, how to do this, how to navigate this. So, or challenge us to think YouTubers rather than pastors or speakers. And I think that was one of our number one Achilles heels in where I was before. We were thinking YouTubers in a lot of ways, but in our, for example, and I'll get to this in a minute, but in our titling and in our thumbnails, we were treating this as series, the series Jesus series, Part three, March 1st. That's not a compelling, in captivating title for our audience who is with us every week and just wants to get on there and watch something on demand that may be helpful. But to someone who's gonna organically come across our YouTube content, that doesn't explain anything about what's in the video.

Nick Clason (09:59):
So why is live streaming problematic particularly? And full disclosure, I'm a student pastor. And so if you're watching this in a senior pastor and your church has good cameras, good audio equipment, good lighting to fully embrace a live streaming strategy, then by all means continue to do that. But if you're a youth pastor, I would not necessarily recommend building the gear, the switcher, the infrastructure of live streaming. All right, So let's talk about watch times. Cause this plays into it. According to a backlink.dot com, they surveyed and looked at 1.3 million YouTube videos to try and better understand the YouTube search feature and algorithm. What they determined was that longer videos significantly outperform shorter videos. And the average length of a first page YouTube video that's beneficial and helpful is 14 minutes and 50 seconds. All right? So you need to understand that the way that YouTube indexes and categorizes their videos is a combination of two things.

Nick Clason (11:15):
Overall, watch time paired with average percentage viewed. And so it turns out that videos in the 14 to 16 minute range actually index really well. In fact, those are the highest ones on search. There are other factors of things that help increase watch times, such as the hook or the intro. All right, So let's just think in the land of sermon delivering a sermon, Okay? I want you to just rank these two scenarios. Scenario number one. Hey everybody, welcome back. Real quick before I dive into tonight's message, I wanna remind you about the Churchwide Bake sales. It's coming up on Sunday, and if you want to earn money toward the mission trip, it is required that you be in attendance. If for some reason you can't make it, just be sure to talk to me afterwards. All right? Now, last week when we were in part three of our series, Jesus, we were reminded that Jesus was bonded together with his disciples because of their love.

Nick Clason (12:14):
And so tonight, what I wanna focus on in part four is what happens after the death burial and then ultimately resurrection of Jesus, right? That's scenario number one. That's you preaching to your congregation, your students, the people that call your church home. Let's talk about scenario number two. Hey, what if you could win a million dollars? What if I told you that the message of Jesus is actually one that supersedes and rises far above the benefits of winning millions and millions of dollars? Do you see how one at least has the intention of a hook? I don't know if it's good or not, right? That's why I say in fairness, I'm not a YouTube sivan or expert, but I want you, I wanna challenge you to think like a YouTuber. And so where one is taking care of housekeeping in your student ministry, what's going on the bake sale? The second one is actually thinking about YouTube first. It's creating a hook. So what are some implications for ministry? Well, first of all, a 30 to 45 minute sermon where the speaker is presenting primarily to a room full of people versus not really looking or paying attention to the camera. It's just there. Capturing them, doesn't act, Doesn't exactly right. Speak YouTube's preferred language. Think about it, in a live room environment anyway, messages between the length of 10 to 25 minutes seem to have become a pretty optimal length for student ministries who gather in person.

Nick Clason (13:51):
And I also think that if you take your YouTube or if you take your message content that you're going to already naturally deliver into a room, what I'm gonna actually propose here is that instead of capturing you delivering live to your room, I'm gonna propose that you prefill your content. And what happens is when you prefill your content, number one, you can create and craft a hook that is specific in particular for YouTube. Secondly, you can shave the time down to fit into that 14 to 16 minute window. Even if you go longer in the room, aim for that 14 to 16 minute window. And third, it gives you the opportunity to practice your message before you get up there and deliver it to a live room full of teenagers or parishioners or congregation members. And so that's one of the things that we've been doing.

Nick Clason (14:58):
We teach live every single Wednesday night, but during that week, after I'm done with my prep, I sit down, I put up a camera and iFilm my message. Then I do a little bit of post production, I add a sound bed behind it. I do some flying in graphics, lower thirds slides, and I put those on the screen as well. And that's gonna be our strategy for YouTube. Why? Number one, it's gonna let us do a YouTube first messaging. We're not gonna bury it behind a bunch of other elements. We're gonna go with the message first. If YouTube is in fact a search engine and kids are out there searching for answers to their faith, then let's give them the answers to their faith. And they might not care about our church announcements. They might not care about the worship, but what they do want is they want answers.

Nick Clason (15:45):
So answer the question, tell them what you're gonna talk about with the hook right up front at the very beginning of the video. And that for me is one of the hardest shifts, is moving from holding my ace content up my sleeve until the very end, waiting for the message to climax, but instead giving a teaser and a preview at the very beginning of the message. That's a shift. YouTubers do that really well. Pastors build to their ultimate conclusion, and so they try to create this mystery around what's gonna come. But the reality is on YouTube, if you don't hook them right off the bat immediately, then they are gone and on to the next thing. And so think like a YouTuber. Let's talk through some other YouTube best practices. Like I said, make sure your titling is something that a YouTuber would search for as opposed to Jesus Week three, Mark 14, one through 10.

Nick Clason (16:39):
That's not as captivating a title as Is hell a real place dealing with crippling anxiety or is rest even possible? You see the difference between those two. Think YouTube, think search engine, think click bait, think controversial type titles that help your video perform better because it's a search engine. The meta description or the title, the description of the video, those things all play a huge role in the YouTube ranking. So make sure you spend a little bit of time thinking through and crafting some good compelling descriptions. And then you can also link to things on your church's website or social media, or maybe even some products in the description of your video. Also include tags. YouTube gives you a spot to do that. So include keywords from your videos or tags that relate back to the topic. All three of those factors, title, description, tags, all play a role in the searchability of your YouTube content.

Nick Clason (17:33):
Also, your thumbnail plays plays a role. Go look at Mr. Beast. He's like number one, YouTuber in the world. Go look at his thumbnails on his YouTube channel and just get some photos with a decent iPhone, maybe a Google Pixel phone to take some halfway decent portrait shots. Throw some catchy text over it using maybe something like PowerPoint Canva, or if you have more skill Photoshop and use different catchy thumbnails to try on your videos. You can also then use a free tool like trends.google.com to look up your searchable words and compare things. AB testing. If you wanted to use the word fear versus the word anxiety, put those into trends.google.com. And you'll notice that anxiety has a higher search level. So use that.

Nick Clason (18:25):
And then also comments and shares and people embedding your videos are all things that are gonna help index it better in the YouTube algorithm. So ask for things like comments, ask for things like shares, and then on the embedding feature, try to embed your YouTube videos onto your church website onto your, And so then your website is hosting your YouTube video and embedding it already helps index it better. So you already have a platform that people are going to. So use that. That's a feature that's already built in and that can help you get going. All right, what if you're just starting? What starting gear do you need, right? Listen, if you're gonna go budget friendly, get a nice smartphone, right? I just gotta Google Pixel, the latest iPhone have some great things. One of the main things for filming is you need a separate microphone, Okay?

Nick Clason (19:24):
So you can get, just go on Amazon, do a quick search for a shotgun microphone with your style of phone connection that's needed. You can get something for under a hundred bucks. You can also get a lapel, a wireless lapel lighting. Natural lighting is great. Some ring lights can help. Do the trick. Get a tripod that you can stick your phone on. If you want a more professional rig, then listen. Just go to YouTube, search best YouTube starter set for gear, and you'll find something. I love everything that Brady Sheer from Pro Church Tools has to say just about anything in the church digital space. And in fact, I think the day I'm recording this, he yesterday just trapped a video on his favorite camera gear. So go copy that if you got the budget to do it and make it happen. And then you're just gonna have to do things like edit, and you're gonna figure out you wanna use iMovie, Da Vinci, Resolve Adobe Final Cut Pro.

Nick Clason (20:20):
Again, budget for some of those are cheaper, like iMovie and Da Vinci Resolve are free. More expensive options are the Adobe Suite or Final Cut Pro. You're just gonna have to see what you have and what's available out there. But listen, my recommendation, again, like I said, get on YouTube. Treat it like a search engine. Get out there. Put your message, the message of hope that you have about Jesus. Create a YouTube channel. Prefill your content or film it after you deliver it. If you want it to be a little bit more polished and you've a little bit more familiar with it, and just start posting some stuff out there, right? Try some things. Follow some of these best practices. You may not go viral overnight. I can't promise that, but these are some of the best practices out there on YouTube. And so simply following them is just gonna give you the best chance to be discovered.

Nick Clason (21:12):
And that's the goal. We want students, teenagers, or people wrestling with faith to come across the content that we have to offer, and hopefully give them something that's helpful. And this is just a way to expand your impact and your reach as a youth pastor, as a regular pastor in 2022 and beyond. Hey, I hope you guys found this episode helpful. If you did get, Man, leave us a rating or a review. We are on iTunes, Spotify, all the major podcast platforms, hybrid ministry. We're also on Twitter at hybrid ministry. We have full transcripts of everything. We provide this to y'all at hybridministry.xyz Come check us out there and we will talk to you guys.

SHOWNOTES
https://myyouthmin.com/

TIMECODES
00:00-02:40 Intro
02:40-05:33 Why Social Media is important for reaching people in 2022 and beyond?
05:33-10:01 Digital Ministry is not Physical Ministry and vice versa
10:01-13:14 How people interact with organizations and companies
13:14-15:31 Becoming All Things to All People
15:31-18:56 So now what do we do?
18:56-22:29 Final Encouragement
22:29-23:41 Outro

TRANSCRIPT
Nick Clason (00:00):
What is up everybody? Welcome to another episode of the Hybrid Ministry podcast. I am your host, Nick Clason. Excited to be here with you this morning. And today on this episode, I wanted to talk and walk through a social media framework for 2022, the ultimate guide on how to reach Generation Z millennials and soon to be, I was just challenged on this week soon to be Generation Alpha. So recently I was asked by Youth Ministry 360 YM360 based out of Birmingham to write one of their modules for their MYM which is short for My Youth Mein. It's a training portal, training hub that they have on their website. And so I'm actually gonna have this coming out in December of 2022 on their YM page. And so I'm in the middle of a writing it, so it's not all the way flushed out yet, but there are some things I have already put together for it.

Nick Clason (01:25):
And so if you wanna see that full version, I'll just encourage you to head over there to that website by the 1st of December to check that out. It is behind a paywall. There is a five day free trial, I believe. So if that's something that interests you, go and check it out to see it in written form. But I'm gonna process some of my thoughts with you all here on this podcast and just work through it. And then honestly, I'm probably gonna go back and listen to this and use it as a piece and part of my research prep, whatever, to flesh out and build out the remaining pieces. So it's building a seven step framework for social media in 2022. Part one and part seven are gonna be introductory and concluding pieces. And then parts one through five are going to be looking at platforms like YouTube, TikTok, Facebook, Instagram, emailing slash texting. So five is email and text. Put two in one. So all that to be said, the ultimate social media guide. Why that? Okay, so what we know about Generation Z what we know about millennials we've chatted about it here on this podcast, but I did find some new research to back it. So this generation, Generation Z in particular, is actually the very first generation to use their mobile

Nick Clason (02:59):
Device more frequently than all other devices combined. So in preexisting generations, millennials, Gen X, so on, so forth they did not use their cell phone or their mobile device more frequently. Then the combined use of other devices, tv, video games, computer, laptop, you fill in the blank, right? Generation Z is statistically the first generation to use their mobile device more frequently. What does that tell us? It tells us that they're mobile first. They are the first smartphone generation, essentially. And so that does bode to make sense, and that is something that you would probably expect. However, with research coming out to back it up, it's super interesting, fascinating. So right then again, the question is what do we do with that? Millennials and also Gen Z say that a hybrid version of church will suit their needs going forward in a post pandemic world. That obviously comes from bar's research six questions about hybrid ministry in a post pandemic world.

Nick Clason (04:14):
And then finally, lastly this statistic I came across that says that greater than 80% of 18 to 29 year olds, which is the youngest age data available legally, because you can't pull anyone younger than 18 but greater than 80% of that age bracket use at least one social media app regularly, which of all the age breakdowns is the highest, right? And it's assumed that even younger gen z gen alpha, remember I'm writing this for a youth ministry a youth ministry training thing. So I'm focused particularly on teenagers, not just church, but you as a church leader pastor, ministry leader this 18 to a nine year old, this should matter regardless, right? I'm trying to skew it even younger than that for this project. But they use at least one social media app regularly. So my conclusion on that is what this shows us is what we may already know in our gut, the digital ministry digital engagement is not going anywhere.

Nick Clason (05:29):
I do think that there's a notion that came out kind of post pandemic, that digital didn't work because anecdotally, all of us spent months separated from one another. And as soon as that was over six months, 12 months, 18 months, or however long it took for us to be locked down under certain layers of covid protocols, we all knew that we wanted to get back together. Depending on where you were and what part of the world, world and how you're doing ministry, there's this gut feeling of like, we gotta get back together. And that's a hundred percent a true statement. Human beings, we are social creatures. And so removing all forms of human interaction is of course gonna have some adverse effects. But I think that what happened was we all did in churches, we tried to take something that was being offered for an in-person experience, church service, gathering together small groups worshiping God through singing collectively as a congregation.

Nick Clason (06:28):
And then we tried to reproduce or even replicate the absolute identical experience or expression in an online forum, church, live streams, worship services, and those don't work or play in that same vein as well. And so you're getting a lesser product B in every other facet area of your life. You're being forced to sit out in relationships with other people. And so I know that in our student ministry, we went hardcore after digital ministry and it helped kind of facilitate and flush out our future our future version of student ministry. But the reality is it did not ultimately fill the void that was left by not gathering. So my conclusion, one you've probably heard before on this podcast is that in person environments centered around the gathering of believers helps fulfill a specific purpose. And digital environments also help fulfill a specific different purpose. The word different there is important, okay?

Nick Clason (07:41):
Because everything on social media has a reason, has a purpose and it is not to just replicate, redo, and fulfill what's going on in person. And so in a post pandemic landscape, those two things, both digital and in person, I think got pitted against one another. At least I know in the ministry context that I was in, there were debates and people were wondering, does online work, does in person work? And so I was forced to take a side. And as you know, if you've been a listener of this podcast for any length of time, the side I'm gonna take, I'm going to take digital, I'm going to defend digital. I think that it is an incredible tool that is unique to the time period that we are in. And one that I believe if any of the writers of scripture, apostles, whatever were around, they would be using digital to help expand their message and help expand the message of the gospel that's available to us through Jesus alone.

Nick Clason (08:55):
And so we got sort of pitted in this digital versus physical. I don't know about your context, but I know in the context that I was in, I don't work there anymore, but that I was in, that was a hot debate, Is it working? And if not, then we need to just come back and do this. And the reality is, I always had to find myself arguing, standing against digital. And then I realized once I left that what we were doing in digital is not able to fully replace and supplement the purposes of in-person church. So yeah, of course we're gonna see lesser results from that. We gotta figure out where to shoot it in the middle, where we can be hybrid. So it's not about a preference anymore. We don't live in a world that's black and white with in person being black, digital being white, and you have to pick one or the other.

Nick Clason (09:52):
We live in this sticky middle called hybrid. Hence why I have this name, the hybrid ministry podcast. I like to use the analogy of my relationship with Home Depot, right? Saturday mornings I activate my full dad mode, throwing on my new balances, my cargo shorts, my dad hats set out to accomplish some DIY project. And the only place that is possible to go and do that get materials and all the things is none other than the Home Depot. I know in your mind you are queuing the Home Depot theme song. So as I head to Home Depot, think about this, sometimes I drive over to the hardware store, I walk around, I explore, I just enjoy breathing the same Home Depot air with the other cargo, short new balance wearing dads just like me. That's a physical experience. Sometimes though, I get on the Home Depot website or the app and I order supplies to be delivered directly to my doorstep later on that week.

Nick Clason (10:51):
That's a fully digital experience of me interacting with Home Depot. And finally, probably honestly, the most usual thing I do is while I'm at Home Depot and I can't freaking find what I'm looking for, do you know what I do? I pull open the Home Depot app, I go to my specific store and the location finder, I look up what I'm looking for, and then when the app is able to tell me exactly which ILE in which bay number I can find my specific product in, boom, I'm in. And I'm out in all of those scenarios. I am a Home Depot customer, but I'm engaging with the company in three completely different ways. I'm engaging with them in person, I'm engaging with them through their digital means and presence. And I'm also using them in a hybrid form while I'm there using their digital app.

Nick Clason (11:43):
And I personally believe I'm pretty staunch about this, that the gospel is the greatest story ever written and ever told. And if we're working to reach our people with that exact same message that I think we should challenge them to engage with our church in all three arenas in person, digital, hybrid, in fact, more than just challenge them to engage with us in all three, I would actually challenge you. I would challenge me, I would challenge us as ministry leaders to find ways that is not just reproducing, replicating creating exact representations of what's going on in our church building. I'd find ways to permeate those three spaces. Think about this, right? If our only strategy to reach new students or to reach, I'm a youth pastor, I told you I'm writing this for why I'm through 60, but to reach new students or to reach other congregation members, if our only strategy is to invite kids to join in on our turf, on our space during our meeting time, during our program time, and then turn around and send those same kids to live out 167 other hours of their week beyond what just happened to live out their faith, is that enough?

Nick Clason (13:05):
And I don't know that it is, right? Yes, it is not our job to fully live out our students faith, but I'm reminded of what Paul says in First Corinthians nine. Here's what he says nine 19 through 23, Though I am free and I belong to no one, what I've done is I've made myself a slave to everyone to win as many as possible to the Jews. It became like a Jew to win the Jews to those under the law. I became the one under the law. Though I myself am not under the law so as to win those under the law to those not having the law, I became like one. Not having the law, though I'm not free from God's law, but I'm under Christ's law. And so as to win those not having the law to the weak, I became weak to win the weak.

Nick Clason (13:51):
I've become all things to all people so that by all means possible, ready, I might save some. And I do this for the sake of the gospel so that I might share in its blessings. If over 80% of mobile users are using at least one social media app regularly, how can we become all things to all people? The way that Paul says it, how can we show up where our students are already choosing to spend their time? So I believe that one way to do that is through a robustly flushed out social media and marketing strategy. We talked about this in an episode about the myth of marketing. And back when Matt was on the pod regularly, he said We were asking, Is it wrong to market Jesus? And he said, Don't think about marketing in the traditional sense of marketing. Our church has billboards and ads.

Nick Clason (14:52):
Though you may have those things, there's nothing wrong with those things. But what the goal ultimately of marketing is to build an awareness. And Seth Godin says, in an attempt to change the world through our messaging. And I would think, and I would argue that most of us as church or ministry leaders, we exist to make a difference in the world, to change the world through our message. And if we can do that beyond our once a week in person program gatherings, I think we should. So what do we do? So social media, church communications, they've taken on some interesting forms in recent years. Like, here's how this would go. A new social media platform would emerge. The church, of course would resist it. And then once widespread adoption by its members became a reality in something that was undeniable anymore, the church would then jump into that platform and it would view it as a good communication tool or a good means to an end to get the word across.

Nick Clason (16:04):
And so then, if you're ministry leader, church leader, pastor, you get this when the whirlwind, when the busyness of leaders, youth pastors, rather than creating a specific tailor made digital influence, discipleship focused social media strategy, it would basically turn that social media into a billboard saying, Hey, if you want, all I have to offer from a discipleship social media strategy framework, you have to drive over to my building and come to this event. Like I said earlier, social media platforms each have an individual purpose. They all have best practices to reach the audience or our congregation that is following us on those platforms. And we're able to use those to find and reach more people with the message of the gospel. Often, like I said, what happens is, no offense to your graphic design prowess, but your church-wide potluck graphic is probably not going to be as mesmerizing to outsiders as you are hoping that it would be.

Nick Clason (17:09):
And it's not. People are not just gonna accidentally scroll past your graphic about the church wide potluck and just come strolling into your church's C Gymatorium to eat t Sally's famous potato salad, No shade to t Sally. I'm sure that the recipe that she has for her potato salad truly is a one of a kind, but that is not gonna be your ultimate win on social media. The odds are that if you're reading this, if you're listening to this as a ministry leader, then you instinctively know this, that just posting graphics of your events is really not going to be the best way to run or do social media. And maybe even as a ministry leader, youth pastor, you have been shoulder tapped or shoulder maybe even voluntold, to become the church's communications director and social media manager, But to keep your head above water to post regularly, to do communication, to lead your ministry well, to communicate with parents, leaders, students, to prep messages that are good and relevant, and to plan amazing and awesome events to even maybe run the sound booth on Sunday morning in big church worship services.

Nick Clason (18:21):
Cuz you're the only one under the age of 30 in your church gnawing inside of you. You're aware that social media matters, that the stats that we've talked about, Gen Z using their phone more than any other device, that they want a hybrid experience with church, that over 80% use at least one app on a regular basis. So what do we do? How do we build out flesh out this robust social media platform? Like I said, the remainder of this project is gonna be on Nym YM three sixty.com. Head there, grab a free trial, love to encourage you to check that out if that's something that you're interested in. But before we leave, I just want to offer a couple of encouragements and reminders because maybe saying this, you're like, Yeah, gosh, dang, man, I know I need to do something, right? Okay, There's gonna be a lot to build out in a social media framework.

Nick Clason (19:26):
Okay, Here's my encouragements to you. Number one, you don't have to try and do it all, and you definitely don't have to try and do it all tomorrow, But as we walk through this, as we look at different platforms, as you dive in YouTube, TikTok, Facebook, Instagram, email, texting, choose one platform that's gonna work in your context and go all in on that. First, as a ministry leader, I just wanna encourage you doing a great job. I mean, I don't know specifically, but if you have that tension, that pressure, that feeling of trying to do all these things, it means that you care and you're probably doing an amazing job in the areas that you are working on. And I want to just let you know, and I wanna encourage you to keep your head above water, right? It's gonna be okay. It's gonna work out learning a new platform. Honestly, it might feel like you have to learn to write a book with your left hand and it can feel clunky, awkward but really, truly, I just wanna encourage you, practice really does make perfect. Right now, I am rolling out a full blown social media strategy for the church that I'm working in which is brand new, and I got two other youth pastors on my team, and we're posting regularly

Nick Clason (20:47):
Three times daily to TikTok, and I can do it, I'm used to it. I've learned TikTok, I'm familiar in the editing framework in the app But the problem with that is twofold. Number one, if I just do it if you go to our TikTok channel, and already it is this way, but because I'm trying to slowly hand more and more stuff off to them, if you go there, you're gonna see a lot of me, and we're a team of three. And so our digital expression does not fully represent who we really are because there's three of us, not just me. And so that's problem number one. Problem number two is it's not beneficial for me to hoard and hold it all right? So I need to get them up to speed and feeling comfortable editing things so that they're also on social media and we're seeing their representation on our TikTok account.

Nick Clason (21:52):
And then finally, this one dovetails very closely to what I just said and list some help. Get on this with some friends, maybe some coworkers, maybe even use some students in your church, in your ministry who are much more native to some of these platforms. You don't have to try and learn it on your own because honestly, remember what Paul said, our job as pastors and ministry leaders is to equip the saints for works and acts of service. So that is the goal. The goal is not for you to be holding onto it all and entirely. So, hey guys, thank you so much for hanging out today on this episode. If you found this helpful, go download the seven Steps social media framework for reaching Gen Z and Gen Gen Alpha. It's gonna be live on my Youth Min or short MYM on YM360 here soon.

Nick Clason (22:50):
Ugh, it is behind a little bit of a membership paywall. I will warn you of that, but especially if you are in youth ministry, that membership is very much going to be well worth your time. So I'd really encourage you to go check it out and hang out with us. This full transcript is gonna be available hybridministry.xyz if you want to use it as convince your boss or to help thinking through the big picture realities of why social media matters. If you need to talk to a parent, a leader, a pastor, about why this is important, especially for you're in a ministry where you're leading the charge on that or come hang out with us on Twitter @hybridministry. Again, guys, thank you so much for hanging out had fun talking, chatting with y'all, and we will talk again next time.

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TRANSCRIPT
Nick Clason (00:00):
What is up everybody. And welcome back to another episode of the Hybrid Ministry Podcast. On today's episode, I just wanted to have a quick conversation, a brain dump, if you will, about why we do what we do as Christians in church. And you know what I mean by that is there's a lot of moving parts in any organization if you're running a business or if you're an accountant or if you run a plumbing company or whatever, right? There's logistics, there's email, there's it, there's booking, there's scheduling, there's accounting, there's marketing, there's branding and color schemes and merchandising and content creation and social media. I mean, there's a million layers to everything, and the church is not exempt from that. And so what I wanna do, like I said, give just a quick little brain dump here. This is something that's been swirling around in my brain.

Nick Clason (01:09):
I am your host, Nick Clason. If you and I have not had a chance to meet, so excited that you're jumping on this, uh, podcast with me today. Um, I, we, we, we, uh, have this podcast, the Hybrid Ministry Podcast, because we are attempting to live life out in a hybrid sort of way. We don't live in a physical only world anymore, but we don't live in a digital only world either. How do we marry those two things together? And how do we create a hybrid sort of experience, uh, for the people that we're trying to reach? Because, you know, me, my story, like I'm a pastor, and so I've been called by God to reach people, make disciples, um, and share with them the mi, the mission, message, and hope found only in Jesus. And so how do we do that? And so for, you know, the majority of our lifetime, uh, we've done that through the local body, um, of the church.

Nick Clason (02:03):
And I believe that that's, that's a theological, um, understanding of what we have going on, right? Like the theological implications, Hebrew chapter 10, verse 24 and 25, Let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds. Not giving up meeting together is somewhere in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another in all the more, as you see the day approaching, it's a biblical mandate for us to do life together. And by no means am I proposing that we don't do that. Um, so like I said, I'm a pastor, um, specifically I'm a youth pastor, uh, work in the Dallas, Texas area. And I just started a new job, started a new job, um, at, uh, going on two months now at this point. But the first month was, uh, remote and traveling back and forth between Dallas and Chicago, where I, I lived before.

Nick Clason (02:56):
And so, yeah, I really only feel like I've been here like 20 something days or whatever since, you know, since I was able to kind of get in here full time and get things going. So, you know, one of the, and, and listen, before I jump into this, this could feel like a slight or a, you know, a dig at the church I'm at, or the churches that I've been in in my lifetime. And the fact is I'm very thankful for every single opportunity that I've been given. Um, I see how every, uh, stop in my journey, in my career, uh, has led me to a very specific spot in my life and how God has orchestrated, um, and paved those ways. And so, you know, there's some, uh, there's some jobs that I've had, you know, that, that have some hurt. Um, and there's definitely like some moments in my life and in my ministry career that, um, I've, you know, I've struggled with or whatever.

Nick Clason (04:01):
Um, but I'm thankful for each and every stop along the way. I'm thankful for what I've learned at each and every stop along the way, um, and how the Lord has used that to grow me and give me just a, a perspective. And so I say all that to say what I'm about to say. Uh, like I said, may seem like I'm poking holes, like I'm digging, like I'm frustrated and I want as much as I can to preface that and say, I'm really, I'm not okay, especially if you're my boss or HR person and you're signing my paycheck, very appreciative for the job that you've given me. But what I've most recently, especially in this most recent onboarding, and so where I work now, I'm thrilled. I love my job. I love what I do. Um, I love, you know, they believe in me and they're giving me opportunities to go out and run and innovate and try some stuff.

Nick Clason (04:57):
And so for that, I'm incredibly thankful. Um, however, a lot of this stuff is popping up in my brain because of the fact that I'm starting somewhere new. And so, while I'm incredibly thankful what I'm about to say when I'm about to kind of like, um, I dunno, shine a light on, if you will, may seem like I'm aiming it at the church that I'm currently employed at. And by no means am I trying to, like I said, shine a light and be frustrated, whatever. So I think of caveat of that enough, it's been like two minutes of caveat, so you're probably ready to hear what I'm about to say. So in the whole onboarding process, um, actually, lemme see if I can pull it up. Um, in my email, when I first started, I got, um, information on how to set up, uh, my account for our church database, church management software.

Nick Clason (05:54):
Um, I also got information on all my benefits, which obviously I need that, and I'm grateful for, and I'm thankful for, right? Um, let's see, what else do I, I got, I got information on, uh, how to join, like the staff, um, info portal, like, um, it's called leader, Uh, you know, so it's like that plus like, uh, what's, you know, uh, development and stuff like that. Um, email, um, expenses, a couple of different portals for expenses. Um, and then our request, uh, system, which is like requests and calendars, maintenance things. Um, and I'm trying to think what else. Oh, there's, then there's task management software, um, that I had to learn. Then there's keys and there's fobs, uh, to get into doors. And then there's meetings with like department heads, you know, so like, um, how do we, in our, like I'm a youth pastor, so how do we, um, interact with the tech team?

Nick Clason (06:57):
How do we interact with the worship team? How do we interact with the creative team? How do we interact with the communications team and how do we interact with the facilities team? Um, a lot of the answers to that fall under the systems and like portals that I just listed out. Um, however, there's another like meeting to just sort of like a get to know people and then be like, um, kind of hash it out, chat it out, right? And so I, again, I say all that to say like, there's a lot of focus on those things. And as a pastor, um, Jesus committed all of his disciples, including pastors, to go make disciples, make more disciples of all nations, baptizing them, teaching them, commanding them. Any promise that he'll be with us, promise us his presence. I'll be with you always to the very end of the age.

Nick Clason (07:53):
It's Matthew, uh, 28, 18 through 20. So I, I think, again, caveat, love, love my job. I think anyone that you're like questioning, like, why do we need this? Why do we, that this, the other thing, Well, those processes help make us more efficient so that we can, um, not waste time on details and tasks, and those things don't get dropped. And so then thus, therefore, we can be more effective and freed up to make disciples great. I mean, I agree with that. I agree with that on paper. Okay. And then, um, you know, you think about, think about like, what do we do as the church, right? So if I sit down, I'm like, Hey, I need to understand what my role as a youth pastor is in relation to worship, in relation to tech, in relation to facilities, right? Like, what does that, why, why is all that important?

Nick Clason (08:57):
Well, because I'm gonna be using the building. So we need the sound, the lights, the worship, the music, the facility to be ready, set up for a, you know, for what? For our event. Well, what's the purpose of our event? Well, that's to make disciples, right? It's really easy. And Ayanna, I can't remember who coined this term, you know, but I'm sure you've heard it before, right? There's, there's the tyranny of the urgent, right? There's always something more urgent, pressing. Like right now, I'm looking at my computer and I have one big red, uh, bubble on my email saying I have an unread email. And my human inclination, in fact, like computer companies, software companies, like they, they build it this way to give it like this, like, you know, urgency type of thing. So it's like, Oh, I gotta check that notification, right? That's, that's always the case.

Nick Clason (09:55):
We're always looking to figure out like, what is the most important thing? What do we need to handle most? And so in my church, we meet on Wednesday nights, we also meet on Sunday mornings. And so, and that's, I've had that rhythm before. Uh, but I, I'm most recently came from a church before this where we only had like one week worth of, uh, one thing per week of stu student ministry programming. So Wednesday and Sunday, like, that's, that's rapid to me. Like, it, it feels like much more, uh, much more frenetic of a pace. Frenetic is the wrong word, but like, the frequency is just doubled, right? It's from one time a week to not two times a week, Sunday, Wednesday, Sunday, Wednesday. And those gaps are shorter. And so to get my things done in between those two are quicker. And so, like I said, I'm always turning around and finding myself like, Oh, you know, I'm recording this on a Tuesday night, tomorrow morning, uh, is Wednesday, I'll be at church all day long.

Nick Clason (10:51):
And then, because I'm at church all day long on Wednesday, um, I will work most of my day on Thursday and be off on Friday. I gotta get everything between, you know, tomorrow and Thursday ready and locked and loaded for Sunday. And I may in fact get some stuff ready and locked and loaded for Sunday, tomorrow, on Wednesday before I ever even, uh, you know, host the next event. I'm two events ahead, right? And that's, if I'm really, you know, most people say, Oh, it's if you're really well planned and that's, you're really on top of things. And, and I like to think I am. However, that there, you know, there's always, like, you always work best under pressure. Um, there's actually like a psychological term of that called like forced focus. And so if you're forced to focus, like as you're zeroing in on an event, no matter how good, and well you are planned out, like, you'll come up with something, you're like, Shoot, it was a good idea.

Nick Clason (11:47):
I should have done that. You know, So anyway, all that right? Aha. That to be said, What, why are we doing church? Like, we're not in the event business, but we are a little bit, right? And here's why. This is a hybrid conversation because, uh, 10, even 10 years ago, maybe like 20 at the most, right? The way to gather together in the way to disseminate, uh, information, theological information, with the exception of the Bible in like print pieces, using printing press, books, magazines, whatever, newspaper articles, like the only way to distribute that information was through the local church. And so thus, the regular gathering was really important because you'd come together and maybe the church would have access to these print pieces of these magazines. They'd get 'em in bulk or whatever, and they'd provide them for their parishioners, their congregation members. But now, since the advent of the internet, all that stuff is available to people.

Nick Clason (12:51):
And so the novelty of church or the uniqueness that it brought, it, it almost feels like it's not there as much. And then again, what are we doing? Like, we're making disciples through the context of hosting events. And I, I, I, I think events matter, and I think they're important. Um, you know, but like, like I, I told you a couple episodes ago, go back and listen to it where I said, Hey, here's what we're, you know, trying to do on social media or whatever, Um, trying to launch some stuff. I just pulled TikTok open on my account, and that's why you heard some background noise on that. Um, and I'm gonna do it again right here, but, um, listen, like I, we posted a like sermon, uh, recap deal, um, couple weeks ago, and I had a 437 views on, on one of those, right?

Nick Clason (13:49):
That's one of my higher ones. That's, that's, you know, better than most. But here's the thing that's kind of crazy. Think about like, when I gather all my students together, um, I have like a hundred, a hundred students, and that's, that's good, right? That's, that's pretty big. Um, some, you know, somewhere between 102 hundred students all together, if everyone showed up, you, if you're a youth pastor, you know how this goes, right? And so, uh, what's more advantageous? Well, I know, I know the students in my room, so I have a captive audience. I'm able to disciple them a little bit better. I'm able to craft the message, um, so that they hear what, you know, maybe they need to hear whatever they're like struggling with or through. However, like the reach on TikTok is like five times that with that one video. You know, some videos are smaller, like, you know, the most recent one I think had like 19.

Nick Clason (14:44):
So it's, it's obviously a lot, a lot smaller. And, uh, TikTok is less about who you follow and more about being, being discovered. And so, um, what is the next step for those audience members and all that stuff. All all that being said, like I know I find myself being challenged to be a disciple maker, be a dis be a disciple myself, of Jesus, and out of the overflow of that, make more and better disciples of him. And the, the context or the fabric, which with which at least the majority of the time of my job is soaked into, is through executing and, um, planning events, maintaining a physical facility, and, you know, worrying about branding, messaging, signage, like all those ancillary pieces. And you know, when it's all said and done, like officially on my, like, I don't, I don't have a time sheet, I'm salaried, right?

Nick Clason (15:53):
But if I did like on my time sheet, like Sunday mornings with students is probably like two hours. And then Wednesday nights with students is another like two hours. And if I'm like a really good youth pastor and I'm like getting coffee or going to football games, let's say that's another like two to four hours. Like in my 40 hour week, I spend eight, eight hours a great week, maybe 10 hours if I'm like super over the top, like really on it with actual teenagers. And like, I get it, right? Like in Ephesians, Paul said, Equipped the saints for works and acts of service. And like you heard, to have a hundred, a hundred plus kids, like, and we have small group leaders that, you know, it's, it's technically their job on our, in our pipeline to like, make that happen. But like, call to make disciples.

Nick Clason (16:45):
And so again, I say all this to say like, I'm not disgruntled, not angry. I love my church. And quite frankly, like I'm here because I'm so passionate about this hybrid stuff and in marrying like the digital with the physical, not because I love digital so much, cuz I really don't, but because I think that, well, I know that there's 167 other hours a week that the one hour a week that kids are sitting in our service, in my church I have too. So 166 hours in addition in a student's life, what am I doing then? How am I reaching a student where they are? How are they learning, growing, developing deeper into the core characters of Christ and doing the things that he challenged them to do? How else are they coming across those things? If it's not just a wins in night when they're in the building with me, or on a Sunday morning when they're in the building with me. Like when else are they being challenged by their youth pastor, by their church to live out their faith, to live out their faith, to learn the knowledge, to understand the things and tenants of the Bible, but

Nick Clason (17:48):
Also then to carry out that message to their friends, to reach their friends who are far from Jesus, to, to share the message of hope, the gospel with their friends who don't know him, to grow deeper in their relationship, to hone their skills, their character, so that it mirrors more closely like Christ to, to follow what, what his mission was that he laid out. I mean, this is so much more than how do I return in my receipts and how do I learn the softwares in the systems? Like I get it, right? Like at church is an organization. And without those things, you know, it would probably be far less effective. I get it. And you know, it's, it, it, maybe it's just a necessary evil, I don't know. Um, but it's just, it's something that got me thinking, like, you know, sit in a staff meeting today and we're just going over tons and tons of logistics and you know, like I said, I love my job.

Nick Clason (18:45):
I have a really great job, and they're, they're allowing us to think outside the box and allowing us to break the mold a little bit. And so I'm, I'm really grateful for that. Um, but I just wonder if sometimes church, not just my church, all churches get a sucked into the tyranny of the urgent and b, turn into event makers as opposed to makers of disciples, builders of disciples, crafting, honing the next generation to look and act more like the person of Jesus. Like that's, that was his commission. So if we start with that, if we, if we start with the why, like why do we do this? And is an event the most effective way to do it? Probably, Or at least, at least if it's not, it's, it's a part of a hybrid solution to what the future looks like. And I don't have all the answers.

Nick Clason (19:38):
And that's you. That's, I think that's why I'm coming across passionate and potentially angry. I'm not angry. I'm really not. I'm just, I, I'm really, I'm right now I'm gonna study provided through my church about 50 days through the life of Christ. It's an amazing study. I've done it before. I'm doing it again, just being reminded about how intentional Jesus was about investing in people living life with his disciples and modeling for them what his ministry model was. And, and then I turn around and I'm, you know, I'm having to like, figure out how to like submit her a seat cuz I've never done it before. Cuz you know, I always had my admin do it. And, uh, she, she recently left and started a new job somewhere else. And so we're looking for one. And you know, I'm like slugging through that a little bit and I'm like, man, I get it.

Nick Clason (20:28):
Like right. It's necessary. And if anyone, if anyone from where I work hears this, they're gonna like, think I'm just this ungrateful, you know, complaining guy. Like I'm not, I'm really not. I'm just, I'm wrestling with like, what's the most important and how do we, how do we create something to respond to the tyranny of the urgent while not losing ourselves in the making of disciples. And I think that that's, I think every youth pastor, I think every pastor, every person in vocational ministry feels that tension at some point. So if you're in vocational ministry, let me hear it from you. Um, we're in this together and like I said, I love where I work. I don't have all the answers, um, but it's just something that got me thinking today. So I don't know. Listen bro, this is like a stream of consciousness. Like, I don't know if I'm gonna have chapter markers for this at the end of the day. Like this is just me rambling talking for 20 minutes. So if you found a helpful, let me know. Reach out on Twitter at hybrid ministry or, uh, swing by the website, hybridministry.xyz. Uh, and until next time, we'll talk to you later. Peace out my friends.

SHOWNOTES
HUBSPOT ARTICLE REFERENCED:
https://blog.hubspot.com/marketing/short-form-video-trends?utm_campaign=Marketing%252520Blog%252520-%252520Daily%252520Emails&utm_medium=email&utm_content=219842216&utm_source=hs_email

TIMECODES
00:00-02:26 Intro and Short Form Video Trends
02:26-03:56 Why Short Form is the most effective
03:56-07:16 What htis means for church services
07:16-11:08 How churches can use trendy content
11:08-14:04 Brand Challenges
14:04-17:46 Use of Influencers
17:46-24:06 Product Teasers
24:06-26:38 User Generated Content
26:38-29:57 Behind the Brand Videos
29:57-34:13 More Educational Videos
34:13-37:31 What plaforms should we use besides TikTOk and Reels?
37:31-38:29 Outro

TRANSCRIPT
Nick Clason (00:01):
What is up everybody. Welcome to episode eight of the hybrid ministry podcast with me as always on these glorious mornings, Matt Johnson sipping his coffee. Matt, what type of coffee are you drinking this morning?

Matt Johnson (00:17):
Uh, I am drinking a local light roast from around here that supports, um, kid cancer whenever you buy it. So, wow,

Nick Clason (00:28):
Dude, you're such, you're such a good citizen of the world.

Matt Johnson (00:33):
Don't know about that, but you know, I love good cause

Nick Clason (00:36):
Is it, is it hot or ice this morning?

Matt Johnson (00:39):
It's hot this morning cuz I was in a rush. So I just, you know, grinded up my beans and threw it in the Keurig real quick.

Nick Clason (00:45):
Nice. Um, well I don't, I don't know if mine supports anything, but I roasted it yesterday in my garage. So there you go. There's that I guess

Matt Johnson (00:55):
Supports you.

Nick Clason (00:56):
Yeah, it does.

Matt Johnson (00:58):

Nick Clason (00:59):
And I, so I, we were at summer camp two weeks ago and I roasted a gigantic batch. Um, and I brought it to camp and I thought I was gonna be safe, but then all the leaders wanted to try my, my freshly roasted coffee, which is fine. I wanted to, you know, I wanted to share with the people, but that's the yesterday was the first time I'd roasted since camp, cuz I I'd just, you know, it was my birthday in between there. So I got a couple bags of coffee. So I've been been using that. So here we go. No one cares, but that's, that's the low down on my coffee situation.

Matt Johnson (01:30):
I love your coffee situation.

Nick Clason (01:32):
well today, uh, we wanted to talk about short form video trends because we haven't talked about short form video enough, right?

Matt Johnson (01:44):
Nope. Not even close.

Nick Clason (01:45):
No. Well, and even though we have it's, it is everything right now on social media and on the internet. And so we wanted to, um, we have, there's a, a HubSpot article that came out a couple of weeks or months ago and I wanted I'll link that in the show notes. So you guys can check that out hybrid ministry.xyz, but also, uh, I wanted to go through that and then kind of bring some of the, bring some of our like church ideas kind of into that. So mm-hmm so that's what we're gonna be talking about today. Um, so let's just dive into it. You ready?

Matt Johnson (02:24):
I'm ready.

Nick Clason (02:25):
Let's do it. So, uh, the first thing is that 85% of marketers say that short form video are the most effective format of video on social media. Well actually mm-hmm, not even video most

Matt Johnson (02:40):
Effective just general

Nick Clason (02:41):
Format on social media, 85%. That's crazy. Mm-hmm what are those other 15% even trying to say? Do you know

Matt Johnson (02:50):
Um, the other 15% aren't being seen I'll tell you that, um, I've even seen people that are doing static images as videos now. So that's kind, that's just kinda the world we're in.

Nick Clason (03:03):
So they literally post like a JPEG and turn it into a video.

Matt Johnson (03:08):
Yeah. So they'll like, you know, fade in the text or whatever. And you're like, this is literally just a static image with text that fades in

Nick Clason (03:15):
all all to be seen by short form video. Is that just because the algorithms have changed? Is that because of the popularity of TikTok? Is that like what what's behind that? Do you feel,

Matt Johnson (03:27):
Uh, it's a hundred percent TikTok. Um, you can see every big, uh, organization has been trying to mimic TikTok. You saw it with Instagram, with reels, YouTube was shorts, um, Facebook with their promotion of just video in general. So it immediately, once TikTok blew up the way it did. Cause it's been a long time since we've seen a social media channel grow as quickly as TikTok did. Yeah. Everyone had to get back on board with it.

Nick Clason (03:56):
Yeah. It says there's a quote in here that says the growth of social media is causing the human tension span to become shorter and shorter. So leveraging the power of short form video content will give you a leg up on the competition and help you engage your audience. And so mm-hmm, what, like, do you feel like that is a threat to, uh, the traditional in room church gathering 35 minute sermon model

Matt Johnson (04:27):
A hundred percent. Yeah. That's something that I don't think we're talking enough about as a church. Um, instead of actually, you know, trying to cater to this, you know, new generation, uh, millennial, gen Z gen alpha that are their short, their attention spans are shortening we've I've noticed church sermons are getting longer or um, oh, we'll just have more production into it, you know, more lights, more action. But um, if you're live experience, isn't on par with, uh, you know, like a big live concert almost at this point or short, you're not gonna be able to capitalize on it. So just an unfortunate world we are in right now. But uh, I think there's some creative solutions that we could figure out and that some of these tasks out there can help us figure out.

Nick Clason (05:13):
Yeah. How, how do like where's the line though? You know, like where's the line on, like we need to cater to them versus like, you know, preaching, biblical content is still meaningful and important and we should still do that as well. You know what I mean? Like when I feel like that probably just has to happen at every church's, uh, like value level, they just have to have that conversation and be like, well, this is what the world is seeing, but this is where like we're gonna stake our claim or whatever, you know? Cause I do think we can get into a slippery slope there and just be like, well, sermons are gone, you know? And I dunno that we're trying to, I dunno that we're trying to say that either. You know what I mean? I think that we should be, be cognizant of where that, where that line is.

Matt Johnson (05:59):
I think the big thing that people, and this is a way bigger tangent than what we had planned on, but

Nick Clason (06:05):
For sure, I didn't even know we were going this way.

Matt Johnson (06:08):
I think a big thing that we're at to figure out as, uh, as churches is just what, what is that next iteration of the sermon that we can figure out? So I don't think we need, you should at all straight away from biblical teaching and biblical truth. And if you're shying away from talking about Jesus at your church, I strongly feel like you're failing as a church. Like yeah, people wanna hear about Jesus when they're at church, they wanna hear about the Bible, it's the way you deliver it. So I just think we have to start kind of figuring out what, uh, your sermon 2.0 would be like, and I do not have a solution for that at all. Um, you know, someone will figure it out and they'll blow up and we'll all go and then everyone will copy them for the next 10 years. So

Nick Clason (06:55):
Yeah, but in the meantime, like there are solutions to the, the hybrid kind of side of it, right? The, what happens, what happens Monday through Saturday, the days you're not in the auditorium the days you're not at church and that's really where kind of this article comes in. So mm-hmm, uh, they say that this, this article also has another stat, says 63% of marketers say that trendy content related to cultural moments and news stories generate the most video engagement. So that's really what that's saying. If I'm understanding that statistic correctly is just that like things that are relevant tend to perform the most. Like if it copies a, if it copies a trend or if it copies a dance or if it copies a, a song that, or, you know, a sound that's going viral, like those are the ones that perform better on average

Matt Johnson (07:48):
Mm-hmm . Yep. Yep. Definitely. So that's something you gotta keep in mind too. So that is the majority still. It's not like the, um, it's not like 75% though. 63%. That's a still, that's a pretty good percentage of people that, of your content that should be probably more trendy relevant rather than just original stuff that you're trying to get relevant.

Nick Clason (08:11):
Yeah. And that's gonna require someone to kind of have their finger on the pulse of that. You're not just going to like pull open TikTok and like no trends.

Matt Johnson (08:21):
Uh, yeah. And that's, that's gonna be the biggest challenge. Yeah. Mm-hmm

Nick Clason (08:25):
Yeah. So who is that person? And there's probably, there's probably a young person in your church that, that does know that, you know, whoever you are listening to this, whether that's you or you're in leadership at your church, like that's a, that's a, there's a person out there that you can probably delegate that to, or at least tap into their knowledge. Cuz I actually, you know, this is the, here's a great case study for this. So I post on TikTok all the time, uh, at our church and I was posting and um, these students of mine were like, you should do this. And I was like, no, no. I was like, this is what's working on our TikTok. And I'd like, told them this thing. They're like, what? I can't remember. They basically like, no you're wrong. We just need to do this thing. And I was like, whatever, I didn't have, like, I didn't have a plan for like my next post anyway. So I was like, that's fine, whatever. We'll just do it. And so we did it and it was by that night it was the number one video on our TikTok channel

Matt Johnson (09:25):
and they

Nick Clason (09:27):
Were like freaking out about it. They're like sending me screenshots. I'd like, Nick, this is the number one video on our to channel. And I was like, yeah, I'm an idiot. You guys are smarter

Matt Johnson (09:37):
Than me. when it comes to having yeah. When it comes to having the finger on the pulse of trends, your students are gonna be the people that know what's going on.

Nick Clason (09:46):
Yeah. Which I posted something on our Twitter the other day and there's like, you know, TikTok ideas, like short form video ideas. And one of them basically is like, ask your youth group smiley face.

Matt Johnson (09:57):
Yep.

Nick Clason (09:58):
Just go to them, like stop putting some 35 year old in charge of, of TikTok. Like go ask the 15 year olds who are spending all hours of all days on it. They will bring you the trends. They'll bring you the ideas and

Matt Johnson (10:12):
Exactly

Nick Clason (10:12):
Crap, dude. They'll probably even like do it for you if you want 'em to like

Matt Johnson (10:16):
Yeah. Which is actually one topics we talk about. Yep.

Nick Clason (10:20):
And, and that's what man, we talk about that, or that's been talked about in like the growing young study by four youth Institute, Kara Powell, all those people, they talk about this idea of key chain leadership, like give, give the, the students who have, uh, some level of authority and responsibility within their church are more inclined to stick with their faith. Mm-hmm so if you give them some sort of ownership of it, you know, but oftentimes I think we just shy away from that because they could make us look bad or they could do something that we don't know or trust, but you know, that's a, it should, church should be a safe place for them to express that and, and try things and fail and, and all those things. So.

Matt Johnson (11:05):
Yep. Exactly.

Nick Clason (11:06):
Yeah. All right. So, um, let's look at these six ideas. Um, and we're gonna talk about, we're gonna talk about six short form video trends to look out for. Uh, the first one is brand challenges. So Matt talk about what a brand challenge is for just a second, so that us, uh, layman and idiots know what that even means.

Matt Johnson (11:32):
Yeah. So a brand challenge, um, is essentially taking the viral content idea. So if you, if you're li if you're listening to this and you have no idea how TikTok works TikTok, you can actually search stuff by like dances songs and sounds, um, which is what makes it stick out from a lot of the other social media platforms. So it's not like based off of hashtags or actually trying to search, or you can search things off of filters. Like that's like the world of TikTok. So you can search actually based off of the content. So as a brand, you could create like a brand challenge sound. So let's go back to, um, a couple years ago in the ice bucket challenge. Okay. And how big that got before the world of TikTok. Now think if your brand could actually mimic the success of the ice bucket challenge on TikTok and how big that could actually get.

Matt Johnson (12:32):
Uh, so it's really taking this idea of, Hey, we're challenging you to, uh, you do something, whatever that looks like. So a great way you could do this as a church is we wanna challenge you to, uh, talk to God five times this week. Um, or, Hey, we wanna challenge you to pray twice this week. Like you can come up with some spiritual challenges that people can do, or you can come up with some church challenge or like more outreachy challenges. So like, um, we wanna challenge you to, you know, see with Jesus' eyes five times this week and help somebody on the street. Um, so it's like starting to be more cognitive, uh, to help people be more cognitive of like their day to day. Uh, another good example of this is like Colgate for mother's day. They did like this huge make mom smile challenge, which was really a challenge to just post photos of your mom or a video of your mom on TikTok.

Matt Johnson (13:34):
And it was for mother's day in Colgate, you know, make mom smile, get white teeth. I don't know, but it was really just a way to get people to post their mom and everyone's gonna post their mom. So, or you could come up with a challenge like who you're praying for this week, post a photo of who you're praying for this week or a video of who you're praying for this week or a video of who you're bringing to youth ministry this week. I'm not gonna see these challenges are gonna go viral. Like, you know, um, the ice bucket challenge, but they could go viral in your church. And that's really the, all that you need right now.

Nick Clason (14:04):
Yeah. Yeah. All right. So, wow. I got super echoy. I had to move cuz my kids came down the basement. Yeah,

Matt Johnson (14:13):
You got real echoy. Sorry.

Nick Clason (14:16):
Um, the next one it talks about, it talks about influencer ads. So mm-hmm, um, obviously we're a church. We're not trying to be influencers mm-hmm but what, like what would be something that we could do in the church with, with that idea?

Matt Johnson (14:36):
Yeah. So influencer marketing is always going to give you a higher ROI, always. Um, yeah. That's just because think about the people you trust and how you take, you know, what they say higher than others. So, good example of this in the church world is, you know, Lee Stroble is a massive influencer for the Christian community or Dave Ramsey. Um, so if you like got buy-in from them, you're probably more likely going to like purchase whatever, you know, these stro or Dave Ramsey's talking about. Um, now in your world, let's say we're at a church of, you know, let's say really small church just planted. I have 80 people at my church. You're probably not gonna be able to get a Lee Stroble to talk about your church. I mean, if you got Lee stro, talk about your church, that's a big deal.

Nick Clason (15:29):
Well, and I mean, what's that thing, that cameo thing you could do that

Matt Johnson (15:33):
You could do a cameo. Yeah. But uh, usually Lee Strobel, cuz you know, I've worked with him, his, uh, the asking price could be a little high for his ads and that's because he is Le Strobel. Yeah. Um, and he did a lot of stuff for favors for us though. Cause he is a really nice guy, but like we also like getting him just speaking, you know, it costs money. I mean he's worth it, whatever. Um, so how can you do influencer marketing in your church? Well, your pastor can be considered an influencer. Um, he, I mean, obviously he's probably the big influencer on your campus. Uh, so you start using him in a more strategic option to like promote stuff. You could also, if you really wanna get creative, find these people that you would call influencers in your church. So let's say this is gonna sound real bad, Nick, and you can push back all you want.

Matt Johnson (16:28):
Cause this is definitely like going to a weird space with your youth group. But as a youth leader, I, um, you could definitely find the popular kid yeah. And get the popular kid to, you know, start pushing stuff on like be your influencer for you. Um, yeah. Yeah. Now we don't wanna play favorites or anything like that obviously. But at the same time, if you know, like, Hey, if I got, let's say Abigail, for instance, to like get on board for this, I know she would get like 12 other people to get on board for this. That's a good use for influencer marketing. So think of influencer marketing on a small scale at your church that could grow into a bigger scale and just make that short term, uh, short form video. Like that's the key to all this. So

Nick Clason (17:13):
Yeah. I don't think like, like we've said, I don't think our goal is to become, get famous people or whatever. Right. But no, but you're right. If, if your senior pass, especially if your senior pastor is not a part of your social media channels too often, like when you post him, that's going to, that's gonna have that effect, you know? Yep. If you are the senior pastor you're listening to this and you are the primary person running things on digital and social, like then there is, you're not gonna have that same influencer or effect because you're the primary face on there. You know what I mean? Yep. So you gotta exactly. Who else are you gonna put out there? All right. The next thing we talk about is, uh, product teasers. So, um, this is talking about, you know, it says anywhere from six to 60 seconds, um, where you're teasing something that's coming. I think this one is one that works perfectly within the church. Mm-hmm you know what I mean? Yep.

Matt Johnson (18:03):
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. It's like think of a traditional commercial is usually a product teaser, so

Nick Clason (18:10):
Yeah, exactly. And so one of the things we did, um, all gosh for probably like 5, 4, 4, 5 months, uh, on our TikTok was just the teaser, uh, round signing up for summer camp. So we did all kinds of stuff that was promoting the idea of summer camp, giving a sneak peek to summer camp. Um, you know, funny videos about summer camp, but it was all about some upcoming event. And that was obviously within the realm of our student ministry. Mm-hmm . And so if you're running this for a church, you have not only summer camp coming up, but you have vacation Bible school and you have the adult Bible study starting and you have financial peace university on its way, and you have the missions trip, uh, domestic and international and you, so you have a million things and that's, that's probably more, the challenge is trying to figure out what or how to promote everything, but product product teasing is something that can become very easy to do. You know what I mean? Uh, in the church world.

Matt Johnson (19:14):
So mm-hmm yep, absolutely.

Nick Clason (19:16):
So real quick, before we jump to the next one, uh, as someone who does marketing in the church, Matt, what is your like preferred model for knowing what to promote and how often, and do you have like a, do you have like a framework built? Do you have like a, a rule of thumb? That's good, good practice for that because you know, if you're in the seat, you're in the kids' ministry wants their announcement and the student ministry wants their announcement and the women's ministry wants their announcement and the seniors ministry wants their announcement who gets the announcement.

Matt Johnson (19:52):
Great question. So step one is making, um, the various ministries kind of work together and work backwards. So the rule of thumb on any given Sunday for us is three announcements. And that is just because we know three decisions is as many as people can do before they start feeling overwhelmed. So if I give you four decisions, that fourth decision is gonna take less precedent than the other three. So that's step one is get the ministries to like, not launch five things on the same weekend, which we all wanna do. I, we all wanna do it, but don't do it. It's just two the next week. It's fine. Um, secondly is, uh, yeah, we, we have built, uh, an SOP, a standard operating procedure to really define what takes precedent over everything. So, um, what gets on social media is gonna be different than what gets in our email for the week, which will be different than what's on stage, which will be different than what the pastor talks about.

Matt Johnson (20:56):
And this is all weighed depending on the, um, the outreach draw of it. So, um, social and email, we have decided that email is for internal. So if this is more of internal event, so rooted, rooted is not gonna be something that you invite friends to really that are not part of the church, cuz rooted is gonna make you go deep in small groups. That should just be our newsletter and um, probably our host spot. And why I say that for the host spot for that is because, uh, that's a great way to get people that are in the church that probably have not done rooted. And they're new to go, okay, go do this to take next step with Parkview. Um, uh, the set, the next thing. So then social like alpha is great for social media because that's an external thing. So I can run, you know, ads behind that and get people to come to that.

Matt Johnson (21:59):
And then, uh, like if it's something that's gonna really affect everyone and that's a big deal that goes to the pastor to talk about in his spot. So let's say we have like family weekend coming up our next gen weekend. That's something that should probably be talked about by the pastor when the most captive audience is there. If that's something that we have said as a church, like that's hu ways higher than everything else. So you really just gotta define who your target is for everything that you're trying to promote. And then you can kind of figure out where they fit in your puzzle piece of all the digital platforms you have. Um, what's

Nick Clason (22:36):
The, what's the biggest, like, can you think of a time, like the number one time that you had like multiple people vying for, for something like, and how did you filter through that?

Matt Johnson (22:47):
Oh, I mean, it happens all the time at where we're at now and it's because everyone thinks their stuff is super important urgent. And the big thing is just sitting down with everyone and explaining their target and actually getting their purpose. And once they start realizing, oh yeah, mine is internal. Mine's really only for preschoolers. It's like, okay, then we should target preschoolers. Like this should not be, you know, an all church thing, um, necessarily it could be depending on what the event is, but 99% of the time, it's not going to be, um, now at a smaller church and maybe you have less going on. That's okay to like talk about all this stuff with your congregation and be like, yeah, I do have a friend that has a preschooler and I've talked about God with them and they might be interested to come, but like, that's great. That's a great avenue for that. But when you have eight different type of group functionalities, plus five kids things, plus your student things, plus your, um, mission things on top of, uh, we have mass baptism weekend or whatever, like you gotta really start kinda weighing what is actually gonna get you the most bang for your, your most bang for your buck, quote, unquote,

Nick Clason (23:56):
Bang for your,

Matt Johnson (23:58):
I was saying quote with buck unquote quote.

Nick Clason (24:04):
All right, great. Those just like a quick deviation, but uh, okay. So the next thing here in this article is more user generated content. All right. So what's that. And how can churches use it?

Matt Johnson (24:18):
User generated content is literally just getting your users to create content for you. So, um,

Nick Clason (24:25):
That feels like churches could do pretty

Matt Johnson (24:28):
Easily, oh, a hundred percent. You should be doing it. And user generated content has actually been shown. I haven't seen the most recent studies, so don't quote me on this, but it was, uh, shown to be one of the highest ways for conversion rate. And that's because you're trusting someone that, you know, you so it's. So if you think about it in the hierarchy of like influencer marketing commercials and then user generated content user generated, content's gonna have the highest conversion because Nick, if you tell me about something, I'm gonna trust that more than if Lee Stroble tells me about something, which I trust Leero more than, uh, my I'm watching a Dodgers game and there's a commercial that comes on. So if you think about that

Nick Clason (25:10):
H baseball, right?

Matt Johnson (25:13):
Cause baseball is good. Nick, it's good for the heart, especially when you have a team that wins a lot. So if you think about that hierarchy, that like, okay. Yeah. It's building that trust user generated content is gonna weigh higher.

Nick Clason (25:28):
Yeah. Yeah. Uh, how, how, how, like, how could churches go about capturing user generated content?

Matt Johnson (25:38):
Um, great way is, do you have some kids you trust, well, have them run your Instagram or TikTok for the day? Um, yeah. You're at camp. Uh, have your students do be like, Hey, I want you guys to promote camp today, take the camera or the GoPro with you and you guys just go crazy. Like you have some options there there's a lot, like it CR this is where you can get whoever you want to be as creative as they possibly can within the context of whatever your, uh, your guidelines are at your church.

Nick Clason (26:09):
Yeah. Well, I'm thinking too, man, you could even do, uh, like what's it called? Like takeovers on Instagram stories. Mm-hmm, you know, um, little things like that. Give, give people like a kind of a glimpse a day in the life, all that type of stuff. Uh, I did that one year at camp where a different person took over Instagram for the day, you know, and they just, they got access to our student mystery account for the day. So, all right. Uh, sweet. The next one is more behind the brands videos. So this one's like a, this one's like a, I don't know, like kinda like a behind the scenes one, but it says mm-hmm, , uh, a sprout social study said that 70% of consumers say they feel more connected to brands who, uh, whose CEO is active on social media platform. So that goes to that senior pastor thing.

Nick Clason (27:02):
Um, but what are, what are some of the behind the scenes? Like, you know, we that's, that one feels like a super easy one for churches. Like people see what you want them to see on a Sunday morning or whatever, but where, but given them a glimpse into the office or the staff meeting or the prayer meeting, or a tour of like a, a place that normal people don't get to see those types of things, I feel like are super a, you know, have such a chance to blow up for people to just get excited about it.

Matt Johnson (27:36):
Yep. Yeah. And it's super easy. Like do walk around the office and say, Hey, here's Doreen. I want you to know about her and meet her and give your testimony or whatever. Or here's our meeting room or here's our staff meeting today, or here's our prayer time today, like build that stuff or take a photo of it and post it. And we have personally seen this be some of our, uh, highest, uh, converting slash liked and engaged stuff that we have done. And this is something we've recently just added to our world. So, um, getting, and it's so easy, Nick, it's so easy. Like you just walk up to someone with your phone and you film them for 30 seconds and then get couple hundreds on it.

Nick Clason (28:13):
Yeah. Yeah. Super easy. So, you know, you can even add that it's like a once a week, like a actually, uh, you've passed a friend of mine. He used to do this thing called, uh, what's behind that door. And it was just like a series that he would do. And he'd like explore different closets basically in the church, you know? And he had a little bumper with it and he would just do it. It was honestly, it was very TikTok esque before TikTok. He was just posting on his Instagram, like feed, but that was basically what he was doing. And then I remember one, he did like a super funny one. where he like went up into the attic and he planted this like baby doll. And so he like shown the flashlight and the attic on the baby doll. And then it just showed him like freaking out, like running away and then just standing there, like stunned at the end.

Nick Clason (29:01):
And that's how it ended like this, the perfect TikTok archetype, but he was doing it like before, before talk's time, even, you know? But I love that. Just little things like that that are just fun. What's behind that door, you know, what's that closet. Have you ever, have you ever wondered what this is? Like, there's, there's a million probably things in your church like that, and it's stupid stuff. Right? Like you hide it for the weekend, but people, people eat that stuff up, man. If they're like, this is our Christmas storage closet, for whatever reason, they're like, ah, it's amazing. Like I think because there's like a vulnerability there, they just feel like a greater sense of connection to your church. Yep. Because of that, like, oh yeah. I, I got to see where they have the Christmas trees, like who cares, but people do

Matt Johnson (29:47):
They do. And um, it's easy. like, that's all I could say. It's easy. Just do it.

Nick Clason (29:53):
Yeah. Yeah. There's really no reason not to. All right. The last one that this, uh, HubSpot article has here is more explainer or educational videos. And I feel like this is the one that the church can just go absolutely crazy on

Matt Johnson (30:06):
Mm-hmm

Nick Clason (30:07):
Mm-hmm so here's what I wanna do. I wanna do a little game. You ready? I didn't even tell you about this. Mm-hmm and it's coming to my brain right now for the very first time. Love it. So I want us to make a list and we're just gonna bounce back and forth. And the person who, uh, runs out of ideas first loses you ready?

Matt Johnson (30:25):
A list of

Nick Clason (30:26):
A list of educational or explainer videos. Okay. So like things that churches could do, um, great. And I'll start, then you go then back to me, then you, does that make sense? We're gonna ping pong it back and forth.

Matt Johnson (30:39):
Yep.

Nick Clason (30:40):
All right. So, um, you could do a, how to pray video,

Matt Johnson (30:47):
Man. That was on my mind. You could do a how to share your faith video.

Nick Clason (30:51):
Mm that's a good one. You could do how to read your Bible video.

Matt Johnson (30:55):
You could do how to share your testimony video.

Nick Clason (30:58):
that? I don't know. That seems very close to the first one. You said, uh, you

Matt Johnson (31:03):
Could do test. Well, I guess how do you share Jesus and how do you do your testimony? I guess

Nick Clason (31:10):
You could do, uh, you could explain like a deep theological truth, like the holy spirit or something like that.

Matt Johnson (31:19):
Oh yeah. That's good. Uh, one of my favorite types of videos is, uh, like dumbing down, complicated Bibles mm-hmm or, you know, so like, uh, talk about Leviticus that makes sense for people or numbers, you know?

Nick Clason (31:37):
Yeah. Yeah. That's like the Bible project. Yep. Um, you could do. Yeah. What was I gonna say? I had something, uh, uh, maybe I'm gonna lose here. Uh, you could do, uh, nah, I, I think I lost man. You win. Congratulations. Um, thanks. Yeah, but you see, like we could have gone a lot longer, but I'm an idiot. Oh,

Matt Johnson (32:01):
Definitely. Well, you had it. It's it's early, everybody.

Nick Clason (32:05):
That's so early. And this is my fourth room that I'm in now. Cuz I, my kids took the only room that didn't echo and now I'm sitting in a bedroom closet. That's just like the echoes of all the echoes. But I was thinking you could, yeah, you could do Bible content. Oh, this is what I was gonna say. You could do, like you could share, uh, unknown stories of the Bible you could share. I love that. Um, you know, like the weird, like the Balo and the Baylor story, or you could share like the, the name and diving in the, in the Jordan river, like you could just, you could pull some of the, the silly verses out, you know, and explain them. You could, there's just, there's a million different ways you could do overviews of, of new Testament, old Testament who wrote the book, why that's important, how to do hermeneutics, how do homo Lytics, like, there's just, there's things that at any given time, you, if you're a pastor, like, you know, is important, but you have to leave those things like on the chopping room floor yeah.

Nick Clason (33:06):
Of your sermon. And like you can pull some of those things out. You could even do like a deeper dive from your sermon of something that you did study in your research, but you chose not to include it for time sake or for whatever purpose, but you could just say, Hey, Hey, here's something that I, I researched last week in light of the sermon on acts chapter two and boom, you got a 62nd video explaining that. And those types of things I see on TikTok all day long. Not, not necessarily like spiritually though. I do see some of those, but I just mean like in general, those like quick hitter, 62nd, you know, explainer videos. And I think that this is what, this is what probably most churches probably are gonna lean towards. Um, at least naturally cuz that's we're in the content creation business, you know?

Matt Johnson (33:55):
Yep.

Nick Clason (33:56):
So there it is guys. Uh, like I said, I will, um, I will post a link to this article in the show notes, feel free to check it out hybrid ministry.xyz. Um, or however else you, uh, do it, Matt, I have a question for you

Matt Johnson (34:12):
Ask, go away.

Nick Clason (34:13):
It's talking about down here later on in this article, best platforms for short form video, it's got TikTok number one, Instagram reels, number two. YouTube shorts. Number three. Yeah. Do, are we messing with YouTube shorts these days?

Matt Johnson (34:28):
Um, uh, uh, depends on the day. You know, YouTube is actually out is weighing long form content higher again, so, okay. Um, if you can create some YouTube shorts, that's great. If someone gets stuck in the YouTube shorts, that's usually a good thing. The big thing about shorts is, uh, they need to create a shorts app. If they create a shorts app, I think you would probably have more success there. Um, right now it's hidden in the YouTube app. Um, I think it's only a matter of time before they do make a shorts app. Uh,

Nick Clason (35:05):
So maybe when they do that, it's time to time to make that matter a little more.

Matt Johnson (35:09):
Yeah. And I'm was gonna say, when it comes to Google, I really don't buy into their stuff quickly cuz the second it doesn't do what they want to do. They just kill it. So , I mean there's a whole website dedicated to like projects killed by Google. You can literally look it up. Um, and I'm telling you like it's literally called killed by google.com and you would just be mind blown by the amount of stuff they test before they kill it. So YouTube shorts is there for now, but I mean, YouTube go was a thing at one point and YouTube originals was a thing. Remember Google

Nick Clason (35:44):
Plus,

Matt Johnson (35:45):
Remember Google plus plus. Yeah like there's a lot there. So I would, if shorts does not become its own app, I, I would say it's probably gonna get killed sooner or later.

Nick Clason (35:55):
There's a lot of stuff on this website, bro.

Matt Johnson (35:57):
I told you, man. It, well,

Nick Clason (35:59):
We'll throw it in the notes too. Yeah. Um,

Matt Johnson (36:02):
It's just a fun website.

Nick Clason (36:04):
Yeah, it is fun. And then there's uh, there's some other apps that this HubSpot article is referencing like some trier hippo Magisto lately.ai and whiskey. Are any of those worth churches investing any their time in at this point, would you say

Matt Johnson (36:22):
It depends on your margin? So like trier is very song based, even more song based for, um, the TikTok. So if you have like a awesome worship band and you're not in trier, like maybe you should look into it. Um, and then the other stuff that's on you like hippo, Mao, um, lately a lot of this stuff is more of, uh, how to leverage short form content more rather than a platform that you would host short form content on. So like HIPAA video might be a good resource for you to look into if you wanna really maximize your like CTAs and your, um, auto like automation for video and conversion and stuff. So, um, but for hosting stuff like YouTube reels and TikTok, uh, TikTok are gonna be number one. And the, like I said, you look into it, but it's just like be real that's out right now. There's these, these smaller social platforms that are like captivating their audiences, but I nothing has blown up like TikTok since literally Instagram and Instagram took a long time to blow up. I don't think people remember that.

Nick Clason (37:30):
Yeah. Yeah. All right. Sweet. Well, I just saw those and I was like, Hey, these are like literally trier hippo Magista lately in w never even heard of any of those. So this is where

Matt Johnson (37:41):
This is. They're more of a tool podcast.

Nick Clason (37:43):
Tell us these things. So,

Matt Johnson (37:45):
Yep, absolutely.

Nick Clason (37:46):
All right, man. Well that is it for today. Appreciate, appreciate your talking. Appreciate you watching me go from room to room, room, room to room to find spot to record, uh, but excited to continue to be on this journey with y'all feel free to subscribe. Give us a rating. We'd love to hear from you at hybridministry.xyz and we'll talk soon.

Follow us on Twitter - http://www.twitter.com/hybridministry
Or check us out online - http://www.hybridministry.xyz

LINKS
EBOOK EXAMPLE
https://21023629.fs1.hubspotusercontent-na1.net/hubfs/21023629/101%20Things%20to%20do%20this%20Summer.pdf?utm_medium=email&_hsmi=220409116&_hsenc=p2ANqtz--GvYYsBn799IT7tZQ07OLdeLeNshWl6rRnS5f0wNelRUcxnmSP6GBZ4rNYmusr63ghavYI8SAUk3drn2tD3kuUF929s7xlw622qVQVuVCXDVsrlvE&utm_content=220409116&utm_source=hs_automation

WHITE PAPER
https://www.dare2share.org/gospel-advancing/value1-prayer

MICHAEL HYATT'S BLOG
https://fullfocus.co/blog/

CROSSROADS PODCAST NETWORK
https://www.crossroads.net/media/podcasts/

PILLAR PAGE EXAMPLE
https://www.typeform.com/blog/guides/brand-awareness/

TIMECODES
00:00-02:42 Intro and Beard Discussion
02:42-05:33 Should churches do marketing?
05:33-11:02 Why Content Marketing is so effective
11:02-16:53 How do develop a church ebook
16:53-23:49 How to use White Paper for churches
23:49-27:45 Blogging for churches
27:45-33:29 Podcasting for churches
33:29-34:24 Pillar Pages for Churches
34:24-37:00 How to convince your boss
37:00-38:37 How to get started on each item
38:37-40:48 Which one do I start with?
40:48-44:36 What are the best services to use to capture this stuff?
44:36-45:38 Outro

TRANSCRIPT
Nick Clason (00:01):
Well, hello, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the hybrid ministry podcast. In today's episode, we are going to be talking about marketing in the church. And what exactly is content marketing? I'm your host, Nick Clason sitting in alongside my amazing friend. The bearded wonder himself, Matt Johnson, how you doing this morning? And how's your beard.

Matt Johnson (00:27):
Beard is good. Trimmed up, you know, a little bit cleaner, you know, we're, we're in summertime. So, you know, I like to keep a little shorter and,

Nick Clason (00:34):
Uh, is that like shots fired at me? Is that shots fired at my no,

Matt Johnson (00:37):
No shots fired at you it off. Cause when the winter comes around, I stopped trim it. So

Nick Clason (00:45):
Yeah. It's nice. Well, I mean, I just announced everybody that I'm gonna be moving to Texas, so I don't even know if I'm gonna see winter anymore.

Matt Johnson (00:54):
Probably not. No. I think, uh, your winters are in the past now, so which is really good for you.

Nick Clason (01:00):
Yeah. And my wife told me my Beard's looking kind of boxy, so I'm not sure what to do with that. I feel like that's code code for trim it.

Matt Johnson (01:08):
code for shape it a little bit.

Nick Clason (01:11):
Yeah. Come on, get rid of the box there. So yeah. Anyway, I interrupted you. You said you're doing good.

Matt Johnson (01:17):
Yeah, I'm doing good. How are you doing

Nick Clason (01:19):
Great, man. Great. I'm a little sleepy cuz you know it's it's Thursday. We had church last night. So of course I was out late, but oh as well. Um, some do idiot decided to plan an event with silly string. And then I watched as the facilities team looked glaringly and begrudgingly on at the mess that was being made on the patio. And I thought to myself, dang it. Now I probably should clean this up. So that took a minute

Matt Johnson (01:51):
Oh, let me get a little silly string,

Nick Clason (01:54):
Um, silly string and then

Matt Johnson (01:55):
We're very messy

Nick Clason (01:57):
And then we're getting ready to do a, a, a baptism out on the patio. So there's a big tub out there. And of course all the kids are like getting water from it and throwing it on each other. So whoever thought let's get this set up on a Wednesday before the event, they, they obviously forgot that we were gonna be out there. So

Matt Johnson (02:15):
Yeah, like let's get ahead of it. Be prepared. Oh actually we made a bigger mess and we had to refill it up.

Nick Clason (02:22):
Exactly. And they're initially stringing it now. So

Matt Johnson (02:25):
well, people are getting baptized Sunday. You know, you might find some silly string.

Nick Clason (02:31):
You might come out with some, uh, lines of pink on you. It's okay. Don't worry. It's not no need that's it's just silly string.

Matt Johnson (02:38):
No need to concern yourself.

Nick Clason (02:40):
So, uh, Matt, one of the things I think is an interesting conversation and I'd like to talk about it first here is like, is marketing a thing that churches should even be focused on? Cause a lot of what we're talking about, uh, in, in all these episodes is marketing is kind, kind of like brand recognition, getting yourself out there and different tips and strategies for that. And so I think there may just be a natural aversion to the word marketing, cuz it sounds very secular. It sounds very like businessy. Um, so what, what would be your response to someone who is like marketing in the church? Like, you know, you should be flipping tables for that.

Matt Johnson (03:19):
absolutely. No, I, I used to be under that ideas. Like why would you ever market Jesus? Like that's not something that needs to be marketed mm-hmm and I think something that you should think about when we think about marketing is not your traditional sense of marketing, of like, Hey, there's a billboard for us. We have commercials. We have radio ads or even like Facebook or TikTok ads. Um, that's not what I'm talking. That's not the primary focus of market anymore. Primary focus marketing is, uh, really just awareness and something. I always go, Seth, always you're marketing, trying to change world with your marketing, you're failing as a marketer. Um, so when you put that in a context, your marketing mind should shift cuz I mean we're working in the church and you should be trying to change the world. So this is definitely something that we should be, you know, evangelizing essentially.

Matt Johnson (04:11):
And it's I'm so what, how a good way to put this in your mind is like, Hey, how do we do a, you know, have an evangelistic mindset for our church in the modern era. And uh, I always just think back to, you know, the pastorals they've marketed Christianity in a totally different way. So it's always been quote marketed, but you just gotta think that brand awareness, bringing awareness to what you're trying to do and how you're trying to help the community and that stuff not, Hey, come by Jesus. Cause if, and if that's what you're at, like you're totally missing the entire point of everything we've talked about.

Nick Clason (04:46):
Yeah. I think about Paul says, uh, I become all things to all people and I think that he would use the digital means that are available to him today, you know, to, to help get the message of Jesus spread. You know, I think one of the, I dunno, probably issues or maybe concerns would just be that there seems to be an oversaturation maybe of messaging out there. And so how can, uh, how can the church stand apart? Like what sets them, you know, in obviously we're, we're coming from a different position, but how do we do it? Well, because if we, I feel like if we don't do it well, we're just gonna get lost in a sea of kinda white noise that's out there.

Matt Johnson (05:31):
Yep, exactly.

Nick Clason (05:33):
So, uh, one of the, one of the things you told me the other day was, uh, this idea about content marketing. So first of all, mm-hmm what is content marketing?

Matt Johnson (05:45):
Yeah. So content marketing is this idea that you're using content that you're creating to market. So it's like, again, we're not talking about, you know, TikTok ads, Facebook ads, Instagram ads, we're not talking about, um, popup ads or uh, um, ads before a YouTube video. We're actually talking about giving people in our churches and that we want to come to our church content, that markets who we are. Um, so we'll get into all the nitty gritty details of what that looks like in a little bit, but uh, it's just providing a value, um, more than just a Hey here's who we are.

Nick Clason (06:25):
Yeah. Or here's service times, right? Or here's, here's our address. You should come to our service. Like it's, it's providing, I like that we're providing value, you know, giving them something that they can, that that's useful to them valuable to them. And Matt, do you think, um, before we get to nitty gritty, do you think that this type of thing, if you're gonna try and provide quote unquote value, can it be done on multiple levels? Can you provide value, um, and information content to people that are already disciples inside your church and people not inside your church? Or do you feel like you need to choose one or the other? Like what would you say to that?

Matt Johnson (07:07):
No, I would say it could be both very easily. Um, as you start, you know, deciding what the content you wanna do and what the purpose of your content is, you can really start to figure out what that value is. You add, um, content marketing can virtual your people that already disciples, and then it can also bring in you new people can be an evangelism tool at Casa breed, new discipleship tool. You have so many avenues that can go with content marketing, um, and all that stuff that we had talked about, like services and, uh, we, this,

Nick Clason (07:54):
No, I was say, yeah, if you add value, then there's gonna be a more natural trust that's built and then an easier step into coming to service or coming to that event because you've already, you've already built a bridge and a relationship to those people.

Matt Johnson (08:10):
Exactly. Yep.

Nick Clason (08:12):
So I think, you know, so then if it can be done for both, then this doesn't feel like such a, such a foreign idea to the job description of most local church pastors. I think what it does maybe feel like though is, uh, like a lot of extra work, um, at least, you know, for me, you know, not cuz I'm not really sure what we're talking about with the, when it pertains to content marketing. So let's dive into that, but first tell, tell everyone the stat you told me the other day about why content marketing is so effective.

Matt Johnson (08:47):
Yeah. Content marketing is the most effective form of marketing that, you know, us marketing experts have identified right now. And I can see this, this personally and all the stuff that we've been testing through my career, but, uh, it's 64% more effective than traditional marketing. It's three times cheaper. So when you hear that, you go, okay, I'm gonna get better results and spend way less money, which is always news, good news to the years of anybody that's got a strict budget. So yeah. Uh, if you can really start implementing some of this, uh, content marketing strategy, uh, you're gonna start seeing results and you're gonna be able to grow your torch or church organically. So mm-hmm

Nick Clason (09:29):
Yeah. And so like, alright, so then let's take all that. So we're not marketing Jesus. We're just creating awareness around our church, which our church is truly speaking. The best message that there is in the entire world, the literal good news that you can have death, or you can have life because your sin has caused you death. And so we want to share that message with people and we want to, uh, go to the ends of the earth. And so we're going to use the digital means that are given to us. We've become all things to all people to get this message out there. And in light of all that it is the most effective form of marketing secular or not. And it is also the cheapest or maybe it's not the cheapest, but it's three times more cheap you said than, than some of the other ones.

Nick Clason (10:12):
So in light of all that, it bodes really well because all, all it really requires of us. The cost, it really requires of us is just some, some like additional work or some, you know, this sounds so old, but some elbow grease, I don't know if that's a thing people say anymore, but just get down, get down. Yeah. I don't know, whatever. Get in there, make some stuff happen. Um, create some things. And so I think like the way I think about it is there's really like two prongs to it. There's the content and then there's the distribution of it. Right. So let's talk through just some of the actual content first. Um, and then when we get done with that, let's just chat through like different ways that churches can begin to create a distribution model for it, whether that's through setting up ads or websites or whatever the case may be. Sound good.

Matt Johnson (11:00):
Mm yep. Sounds great.

Nick Clason (11:02):
All right. So, uh, what the first one I have in mind is an ebook. Can you, I mean, most people know an ebook is, but can you give a few ideas or a few examples of what an ebook might look like for a church or how they could use an ebook as a form of content marketing?

Matt Johnson (11:18):
Absolutely. So I'll give some like real practical examples too, that, uh, I've personally helped create or that we've used. So, uh, one of our most recent one was the summer ebook, which I believe we probably talked about in a performer. Uh, and we're about to launch our fall ebook and, uh, what these eBooks are designed to is for our next gen ministry at, uh, our current church. And that is really to help, you know, promote everything you can do with your kids, um, in the summer or the fall at the end of the ebook we're promoting event. So for the summer one, it was to really promote, uh, summer jam, which is our version of vacation Bible school. And then now for the follow you book, we're gonna be promoting trunk or treat, which, you know, we all know what trunk or treat is. And it's just a good way to like, Hey, we have this resource for you.

Matt Johnson (12:03):
That's not all about who we are, but this resource can also bring you to us. Um, another good example is like, uh, you, Nick who's, you know, a youth leader, you could create an ebook for your summer camp. Um, like, uh, mm-hmm, , here's, uh, the summer camp checklist for every student, for every parent. Like you can create an ebook about that stuff. Or, um, for small groups you can create ebook about like, Hey, here's everything you need to know about joining a small group or, um, you know, so on and so on and so on. So they're just sit down and think of like, okay, what could I actually fill, you know, like 10 pages of, with some fun stuff and it doesn't have to be like, copy extensive. It can honestly just be a lot of images checklist, but you have a ton of opportunity there. And it's a way to get people to actually give you their email and their phone number mm-hmm and then we can reach out to them. And it's also a good way to promote, Hey, this is what we have going on.

Nick Clason (13:00):
Yeah. So like, so on a workflow side, the ebook, we curated ideas for families. So all we did was we just sent out emails and texts to people who have young kids and say, what are things you know about? And then we just threw it all together in a big Google doc, and then we organized it. And so like a couple of fun things that we did within that was we did like a park list. So broken down by city or community, we just gave them names of good parks. Another thing we did was we created an ice cream trail, uh, so that families could have a, like a, a goal to try and hit every ice cream shop or whatever over the course of the summer. Um, and that, wasn't a thing that was created. Like we just gathered different ice cream places. And then we created, uh, this quote unquote trail, you know, like, like when I lived in Cincinnati a couple years ago, there was a, an official like donut trail.

Nick Clason (13:58):
And that, you know, that was a thing that was like actually known and marketed, but like this ice cream trail thing, like we just came up with this. Um, and then other thing we did was we made like a, we made like a scavenger hunt, um, in, in there about like different parks and stuff. So if you figure out like a local park or preserve or whatever, like try and find a caterpillar or try and find a leaf or whatever. And so theoretically you could print that out if you're like a family and you could take that to the preserve with you or to the park, and then you could do your little scavenger hunt thing. And so I think, like to Matt's point, what you're saying is you're like, this is the thing that provides value and it isn't even a promotion of an event or a promotion of our church.

Nick Clason (14:37):
It's really just a way for us as a, as an organization to help support, um, families, you know, in, in this time to give 'em something to do over the summer. Cause everyone's looking for different things to do, you know, over the summer. And so, so you can do that. Yeah. That's what we did, but you can do that all kinds of different things. So I'm gonna throw the link in there to, uh, our ebook into the show notes in case you wanna check it out. Um, but, and you might get subscribed to our email list as a result of that, but Hey, that'd be cool too. Um, anything else on eBooks, Matt?

Matt Johnson (15:11):
Um, no, I think that's about all I have on eBooks, honestly. Uh, yeah.

Nick Clason (15:17):
How

Matt Johnson (15:17):
Long they use 'em they're really easy to make.

Nick Clason (15:20):
Let me ask you this. So we, we crafted, we came up with all the content, right? Like here's the list of things and then we organized it and then we handed it to you and you actually, you know, usually you outsource this, but this time you just created it, how long did that take you to create it? And where did you create it?

Matt Johnson (15:38):
Uh, I created it in Canva cuz I just, uh, wanted to, you know, see what, what we could do with Canva. I'm not, I usually use Adobe and stuff for that kind of, uh, project. Um, honestly probably took about two to three hours to do the whole thing, um, of actual work it's, I mean it took, you know, more time cause there was a lot back and forth and approval processes and all that kinda stuff, but uh, yeah. And then when can have cheap, you can do it for like 12 bucks a month and for the pro version of it and really create something nice, but you can use free version to make a pretty ebook. And if you really wanna get like creative, you do Photoshop and illustrator and um, put all in design. So,

Nick Clason (16:17):
And last, last I checked, I think Canada has a nonprofit license for churches. So you can look into, into that and reach out about that. And so that's a really great free resource. So, you know, theoretically from cover to cover, you did that in two to three hours. So anyone with even a little bit of design ability should be able to throw that together. Not, not too, it's not too much work once you kind of get everything built together. So, um,

Matt Johnson (16:43):
Yeah, you can work off a template.

Nick Clason (16:45):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's one of the advantages of Canva. It comes with those things prebuilt in there. So mm-hmm all right. Uh, white pages, um, what, what are those and why are they useful?

Matt Johnson (16:58):
uh, white pages are honestly one of my favorite things to do in marketing, uh, and a white page is usually just an informational document that, um, can highlight features of like the church, your product, like whatever that looks like to whatever you're trying to market, um, could be your services, uh, and what you can do with like white papers, which we, uh, I did when I was working at dare to share was, uh, we did a white paper for all the gospel advancing values, all a sudden values. So each value had a white paper for it and it was a, you know, a highlighted solution of like what those values looked like. And those were one of our greatest lead generators to get leaders, to become gospel advancing leaders. So, um, find that thing that you were like, okay, we could actually write an informational document about this.

Matt Johnson (17:50):
So, uh, could that be, maybe you provide daycare at your church, like you're, you should probably do a white paper about why your is a great solution for in the community, just to some there, um, maybe your church, uh, it takes a, you know, um, baby dedication very seriously. So why not do a baby dedication white paper to talk about like the biblical reasons behind that and what the difference between baby dedication and baby baptism is. And, um, especially in our culture, which is, you know, primary Catholic, that's probably something that we should do so people can understand, like we're not, we don't really baptize babies, but we would love to dedicate your baby. And here's the reasons why and stuff like that. So, um, you can really define those solutions. You could honestly do a white paper for all the ministries that you have going on. So we could do a student, uh, white paper. That's all about like what students offers and uh, why, you know, students is a great opportunity. Um, and these can be long documents or they could be, you know, kind an infograph, uh, and I've seen both work really well. And the idea of the white paper is just to have another way to people download and get some more information from you.

Nick Clason (19:01):
Hmm. So it, it sounds like this is like, like a PDF or something like that, that people can download. And then it, it is that what's the reason why that is a good, uh, searchable or lead generator for people. What makes the fact that it's a PDF? What makes it, um, what makes it so good for marketing, I guess on the back end? Like what makes Google find it? Or, you know, whatever.

Matt Johnson (19:31):
Yeah. So you're, there's a couple things. So the big thing that's gonna differ white paper from like the ebook or, um, even some of this other stuff we're gonna talk about is a white paper is a lot of information usually, and people are looking for that for like, you know, uh, literally searching for that information they wanted. They're trying to build trust within. You're gonna build a lot of trust if people download your white paper, mm-hmm so the back end of Google, it's gonna wanna like, so that conversion rate's gonna be really high for the people that are searching for that, which Google is gonna like. Um, so it's gonna be a little more, you know, specific to, um, what you're creating the white paper for, but if people are searching for that, they're gonna Mo you know, there's probably like a 60% chance they're actually gonna download it, which is way better than, you know, an ebook you're probably looking at, you know, an 11% chance to download it if you're, you know, on a good day. So,

Nick Clason (20:27):
So this is something that's like a, a PDF document that you create your positional paper or stance or whatever, maybe with infographics and stuff like that on baby dedication. Why is it good to have all of that information in a downloadable, uh, nice looking PDF style thing, as opposed to all that, like all those keywords and words and verbiage sitting on a website.

Matt Johnson (20:52):
Great question. So the big reason in my mind is cuz it's a marketing lead for me. It's a lead generator for me, so I can get people to download it. Um, and they're gonna give their info and we know, uh, that because people are gonna wanna download it. If they're searching for it, you're more likely like that conversion rate is gonna be higher on it for those white papers. Uh, you're also, um, we'll get into content cluster and we don't want, you know, uh, or pillar page. Uh, those are gonna be a little bit longer. Honestly, a white paper is usually about 2,500 words and I've seen pillar pages that are 30,000 words. So, you know, OK. It's, uh, it could be very, it's a little bit more digestible, but it's a little bit bigger than the ebook. It's more info. Um, it's just kind of a next step for people. So if you are somebody that loves to write, um, you know, you're a pastor that loves writing their sermons a lot, uh, and you are like, Hey, I've always wanted to write a little book or whatever the eBooks, a great Legion, but I wanna write like in depth about, um, something that's going, some solution that we have at our church for, you know, maybe it's for alcoholism or something. And you guys have great solution for that. You have ed, you might write a big thing about that and get that known.

Nick Clason (22:07):
Well, I'm even just thinking about, like, we have a, we have like a, um, in person wall, you know, in our building. And one of the things we have a little pamphlet there and it's just called like the guide to student ministry at our church. And I was like that right there with, I feel like the right like amount of like search terms and, and keywords and stuff like that. That would, that would be a great example of what we're talking about here. Mm-hmm again, right? Like when we created it, we were only thinking about in person experiences. So only people that are gonna be in our lobby looking for it in our lobby, as opposed to also creating it and finding a place for it to live and exist on our website so that people can also find it there. It's just it's that switch. Right? It's that flip of a switch of thinking like you, you, more than likely already have something like this because you've created a brochure or pamphlet or something like that. Mm-hmm so then turn that same piece of content into something that can go, um, on a website, like, like you're talking about.

Matt Johnson (23:06):
Yeah. And, uh, you we've started, I mean, you've probably seen this Nick when we were like staying at church on Sunday, but I don't see a lot of people go to our physical walls without, you know, direction to so, uh, it's not a good awareness piece, you know, I've had plenty of people come on, go what's the student ministry about, I'm like, oh my goodness, we have failed, you know, give them more content to, you know, be able to figure out, you know, and identify these solutions for them.

Nick Clason (23:35):
Does, does that, uh, dare to share, like, do those websites, do they still exist? Like could we link to them?

Matt Johnson (23:41):
Uh, they should. Yeah, I can. I'll uh, I'll dig 'em up. We just, we revamped the whole website since we did those. So I'll just have to find where we re put those, so.

Nick Clason (23:50):
Okay. Yeah. So I'll give you a link to that. Give you a link to what the summer ebook looked like. Uh, the next thing is, um, blogs. Let's talk about blogs. Blogs seem like, um, old news they've been around forever. So are they still useful piece of content marketing? Are they still worth our time? What, what would you say to that?

Matt Johnson (24:08):
Uh, I'd say blogs are probably the lowest hanging fruit that anyone listens in this podcast could start, you know, um, doing right now. Um, and the reason I say that is cuz they don't need to be long. Uh, if you get a consistent rhythm of blog writing, you're gonna have consistent search. Uh, your SEO's gonna continue to be updated. And also you're gonna have, uh, consistent reason for people to continue to come back to you, which that's the key of a lot we've talked about. We want people to just come back to us and we don't want it to only be on Sunday mornings at church. We want to come on a Wednesday at work when they're on their lunch break and go, Hey, I wanna check out what my church has going on with it. So, um, blogs are honestly one of the easiest things to start implementing right now and the traffic and the potential of a blog is still massive.

Matt Johnson (24:58):
So a great example of this is Michael Hyatt, um, who, uh, if you guys don't know who Michael I Hyatt is, you know, they grow up full. He, uh, he's a designer, full focus planner. He was an SEO or a CEO at a book publishing company. Uh, he's a hugely influential person in the marketing world and he started his entire company based off of blog writing, um, by giving like daily tips, um, like, uh, how to balance your day, uh, how to be a good boss, how to be a leader. Um, and he was doing that while I was a CEO. And then, uh, he turned that into an entirely functional company right now and full focus. So, uh, that is a great example of like what a blog can do for you. Uh, and blogs are just, uh, something that everyone can write, honestly, like it's your voice, it's your personality, that's your opinion on it. So, um, and they don't have to be long. Like you can write a, you know, 300, 500 word blog and that's all you need.

Nick Clason (25:56):
Yeah. Great. So here, like, and Matt correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like most like template website builders are sort of built on like a blog style, uh, idea, like it's built with the idea of like posts. So it's pretty easy for most church websites to create some sort of blog type thing where you just throw quick hitters of like your thoughts.

Matt Johnson (26:19):
Exactly. And you, there's probably not a lot. You need to change. You just gotta look at some formatting stuff. Uh, like I said, it's gonna be a huge win for you. If you can actually start getting your blog going and be consistent, that's the one thing you will say, don't start a blog if you're not gonna be consistent and you're not gonna write it. So if you're gonna commit to a blog, say I'm gonna have a blog up every day. Like every Tuesday at 10:00 AM, make sure it's up every Tuesday at 10:00 AM, cuz that's gonna help also, uh, unlike the algorithm side of things. So

Nick Clason (26:50):
What's a good, what would be a good recommended rhythm? Would you say for someone who's gonna blog? How often, how frequent all that stuff? How long?

Matt Johnson (26:58):
Yeah, so I would start once a week, you know, get your, your toes wet, your fingers warmed up as you're typing for. Um, uh, and I would pick a day that you might see that might be the best day for traffic, for you at your, uh, at your church. So like for us, we have found Thursdays at, you know, 9:00 AM to be the best time to post anything. So, uh, that's when we would post, uh, you know, a new blog or whatever. Um, and then, uh, as you like start building your blog up or if you're like, Hey, this is something that I could definitely add more to start doing two a week or three a week. Um, you know, Michael Hyatt was doing one every day, which that's pretty, that's pretty intense. So I mean, if you have the time to do that and you wanna do that and you have the drive to do that, go for it, but I would just start with one at day right now and then build on there.

Nick Clason (27:46):
All right. Great. So let's talk a little bit then Matt, about podcasts. Um, are, I feel like podcasts similar to blogs have been around forever? Are they still like a useful marketing tool?

Matt Johnson (27:59):
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. If people are, wanna find a topic, um, they're gonna, um, traditionally look for podcasts now, especially the younger demographic.

Nick Clason (28:09):
Yeah. What was like, what was the, what was the stat hubs stat came? Hub spot came out with a couple of weeks ago or months ago about, uh, the average, average American or average person listening to podcasts.

Matt Johnson (28:22):
Yeah. So podcast listeners. So those are people that send a podcast, 84% of them listen to eight hours or more podcast a week. You have 78% of Americans are aware of podcasts and almost 60% of people in America listen to podcasts. So, um, a lot of people are, I mean, podcasts are continually to grow. Um, I mean younger people, it's definitely something that they do to pass the time now, especially on commutes and walking and, um, runs and working out and all that kinda stuff. And then, uh, you, you know, older people, old, older generations are starting to, you know, jump on the podcast bandwagon. So

Nick Clason (29:01):
Yeah. So do you think that it's just recording your sermon, throwing it in on a podcast? Is that what you're recommending here?

Matt Johnson (29:09):
Uh, I mean that, that's where you can start, honestly. I mean, that's not gonna give you, you know, the traditional traction of a podcast, uh, just because, you know, you're only gonna get people that wanna listen to your sermon at that point. They're not gonna necessarily be searching for like that topic for help. So, so like creating a parenting podcast or like an interview type podcast where people are like, Hey, I'm kinda looking for this kinda thing, but it is a good place to start and you already have the content.

Nick Clason (29:37):
Yeah. Yeah. Um, crossroads in Cincinnati, uh, they have a like almost entire podcast network. Um, and I was I'll link to it in the show notes, but I was scrolling through it the other day. And so like, their pastor's name is Brian to, so they have a podcast called the aggressive life with Brian to then they have one called freed up it's about money. Then they have one called you can do this and it's a parenting podcast. And then they have one called, um, IKR question mark. It says real conversations with real women. One called I love Cincinnati, one called too long. Didn't read. And that's like a cliff notes version of like the Bible one called man skills, one called spirit stories. Um, so yeah, like they have what, whatever that is like seven, eight, something like that podcast summer, obviously. Right. I love Cincinnati.

Nick Clason (30:32):
That's very like regional to them. And so it's just a podcast about yeah. Cincinnati and showcasing the best things about there. And, um, he, he does interviews with interesting people from Cincinnati and then they got one on like just the Bible, like, Hey, maybe the Bible, isn't something that's a regular rhythm or discipline to your life, but here's a quick hitter of, of different books, different chapters, you know, stuff like that. Um, so I, I I'll link to that in the show notes, but I love their approach to that. Cuz I think like you said, a lot of people are just starting with just the sermon. Um, and obviously crossroads is a big church, so they have a lot of resources to make some of these things happen, but you can begin to start thinking and looking and seeing ways that you can create other topics or other podcasts that might be interesting. And it's honestly, man, yeah. This is like episode what, seven or eight for us like this isn't been that hard. Like it's actually really fun. no. And

Matt Johnson (31:27):
So fun. It's easy and it's yeah.

Nick Clason (31:30):
Yeah. You're just having a conversa conversation. We're just recording a conversation, you know, between you and me. And so if you can get two people that don't sound awkward on a microphone, like which is in a church is probably pretty easy because you get people that stand up talking to microphones all the time. So that that's not that that, you know, far off of a skillset of what they probably already have within their repertoire to do exactly. So. Yeah. Yep. Um, and then out of that, uh, one of the things that, uh, I think I've heard you recommend is transcripting those so that you can get all the words onto a website

Matt Johnson (32:09):
Mm-hmm yep, absolutely. Uh, highly recommend doing transcripts, uh, cause everything we've talked about over the last half hour or so is all, you know, searchable terms. So, and you can do, there's plenty of transcripting services out there that are fairly, very cheap to, you know, that you could just upload your MP3 two and they'll transcribe it for you.

Nick Clason (32:31):
Yeah. I mean basically every time we do this, it's anywhere from 30 to 40 minutes and a AI subscription service through rev.com, um, will basically give me this transcript for anywhere from eight to $10. And so that's not super expensive. You, you put that along with the link to the podcast, whether you're using a hosting service or you're hosting it directly on your own website, um, and boom, there you go. You got all the words from it and you know, sometimes they messed stuff up. Like they spell my last name wrong every time. Yeah. But that's the catch go change it. Solos deal. Well, no, they put a Y in it when I say Clason it's there's no, Y a Y so

Matt Johnson (33:13):
Whatever to call you, it says calling Nate Clauson.

Nick Clason (33:17):
Cause you know how everyone says the word Jason and Mason, right? Like that's, that's how you're supposed to say those words too, obviously. Sorry.

Matt Johnson (33:26):

Nick Clason (33:28):
All right. Uh, pillar pages. What are those? We talked about those a little bit last time. So if you, if you didn't listen to the last episode, go back and listen. We went pretty, pretty nerdy and pretty in depth on those. But for those that weren't here, give a quick, give a quick hitter of what those are and the purpose of them,

Matt Johnson (33:45):
Uh, pillar page is a page specifically designed to help with SEO. Um, so search engine optimizations, and it's a large page also known as a content cluster of lots and lots of copy and information about something that's searchable. So good example of this is that we, uh, we're working on a pillar page right now at our church called, uh, the everything you need to know about Christian Small groups. And we identified those search terms. And now we're gonna just write a bunch of content all about that. So, um, and that's gonna be, you know, a pillar page to help drive traffic to our find your people stuff.

Nick Clason (34:24):
So let's pretend that you are marketing genius. You are sitting here or you're at least marketing interested. You're hearing this. You're like, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. But you are like multiple steps away from decision making. You are not the senior leader in your church and you go to your senior pastor and you experience some form of opposition. How would you Matt advise that person to enter into said conversation about one of these things?

Matt Johnson (34:58):
Just any of them?

Nick Clason (35:00):
Well, yeah, let let's hit

Matt Johnson (35:02):
Pillar

Nick Clason (35:03):
Pages. Let's hit it from a no from, from all of 'em. All of 'em. Yeah. Let's hit it from a high level. So you're, you're not the, you're not the decision maker, but you want to, how do you go about convincing your senior leadership that content marketing is worth doing?

Matt Johnson (35:19):
Yeah. Uh, I would go to your senior leadership with just a lot of this information we talked about. So, you know, a big way I started pitching a lot of the stuff, you know, at a current church is a lot of the stats that, you know, we're seeing, um, in the marketing world. So, uh, we know how effective content marketing is and how it can actually, you know, nurture our, uh, congregation. I, um, for your church, it could be the blog. It could be the podcast. Um, really depends. So, uh, I would go in with that in mind, go in, um, with change management in mind. So just, you know, go in and, uh, talk about, uh, what you're seeing, what the goals are and why you can do it and how you're gonna be able to do it, uh, is my best advice for all that it is gonna, can be kinda challenging, especially if you have, uh, older church and older, uh, executives on your team to kinda pitch some of this stuff.

Matt Johnson (36:25):
Um, um, especially some of the stuff that, you know, they might not see instant gratification from. So like a podcast you're not gonna see instant numbers from, it's something that you put time, money and effort into. That's gonna take, you know, um, a while to actually build your community up. But once it's built, it's usually pretty solid. And people typically once they're, you know, in the world of a podcast or whatever they can, uh, um, they stick around. So that's just the kinda stuff that you need to come in, ready to answer. So pick something that, you know, you can succeed at that, uh, can give you some fairly quick wins. Um, and then, uh, just be able to talk about that with that change management in mind.

Nick Clason (37:00):
So let's, let's, uh, keep, let's do this super quick, but let's pretend that you, uh, got approval to do one of these things. And in one month, what would be a win? I wanna just go through each of these. I want you to just lay out what you think a win might look like. So what would be a win if in one month you launched an ebook, what is a, a measurable win, something that you can point to your, your boss about like, Hey, look at this, this is what we saw. This was a win because blank happened.

Matt Johnson (37:31):
How many new people downloaded your ebook

Nick Clason (37:34):
And

Matt Johnson (37:34):
Depending on the size of your church, that number is gonna vary.

Nick Clason (37:37):
Sure, sure. Sure. What about white page? Same thing.

Matt Johnson (37:41):
Uh, white page. Yeah. White papers, probably pages. I would say the same thing is, uh, probably how many new people actually downloaded it.

Nick Clason (37:49):
Okay. How about a blog,

Matt Johnson (37:52):
A blog? I would just say how many, uh, people have read your blogs so you can actually get those stats, you know, you don't want people skimming it, um, not, or just bouncing away from it. So like actually having that bounce rate low and that read rate high on it.

Nick Clason (38:06):
OK. Podcast,

Matt Johnson (38:09):
Uh, podcast, it shows, uh, how many people are listening to it and these don't need to be new people. Like I said, a podcast is really gonna start with your and then grow

Nick Clason (38:18):
And then pillar page,

Matt Johnson (38:21):
Uh, pillar page is going just be how many people clicked on the page that's SEO related. So the bounce rate could be really high, but if you get someone stuck on for also biggest of that in mind.

Nick Clason (38:35):
Yeah. Okay, great. Um, alright. So you're a small church. You don't have anything of any one of these things and we just hired you to be our marketing consultant. What would be your number one project that you'd say, Hey, do this to get started,

Matt Johnson (38:53):
Look at this, the stats and who your congregation is and who your target is. But, um, most 90% of the time, I would say blog or podcast, just because it doesn't take a lot of extra effort on your end, um, podcast. You're gonna have to do a little bit editing, of course. Um, and the blog, you know, you're gonna have to set that up and, but the time commitment's a little bit less than some of these other things. And ebook is a quick way to get, you know, huge, uh, like to not get huge numbers, but to start seeing some of the new numbers come in a white paper, you'll have better, stronger leads. And then, uh, you know, a pillar page is a massive project. I wanna reiterate that there're a lot of work, so, um, but they won't give you the most traffic to your website.

Nick Clason (39:33):
Well, and I think like, if you, if we're thinking about this from like an in person ministry strategy, like everything you do for in person requires a lot of work. Like I'll just say, as a youth pastor, I have to build an entire schedule for an entire semester. I have to recruit in, uh, secure several different like locations, host homes, small group leaders, get them screened, um, create like a theme for every week and teaching and content and all these different things. Like there's a lot of work to be done. And so mm-hmm, um, like just because what we're talking about here in, in like digital form is a lot of work. It doesn't mean it's, it's not worth it, or you should only take the easy way out. It just means that you also have to set up all the infrastructure and framework to make it work too. And once you do, mm-hmm, , it's gonna be worth your while, but you have to have someone who cares about it and keep it going. Just like you have someone who cares about your student ministry, just like you have someone who cares about your women's ministry, keeping those things up and running and keeping them organized and brought together and the framework built and all the same types of things that we're talking about here. Like, it is a lot of work, but it's also worth it.

Matt Johnson (40:47):
Mm-hmm exactly. Yep.

Nick Clason (40:49):
So, so last thing, Matt speaking around this idea of organization, like all these things are a great idea, but how like, like, especially like eBooks white pages, like you're trying to capture emails. And so what is the best way to get your, get the word out there with these things? Um, is there like, cuz you, you know, you wanna do some sort of like email marketing type of thing and your church may have that may not mm-hmm but so you're gonna want to grab people's names, grab people's emails. Um, you're gonna need websites. Like what is the best distribution method? Is it advertising E like talk through it, just like that entire process from, um, getting it out there on Google, getting it, getting it out there on Facebook for ads, getting people to click on your thing, getting people to put their name in, um, where's all that stuff go, how's it how's doing. How do you keep it, keep all these things, uh, all these parts of the machine moving and working together. What's the best way to do that.

Matt Johnson (41:50):
Yeah. We could do a whole episode about advertising, probably a couple episodes, honestly, cause it's such a beast. Um, and distribution in general, but I would say like to get you started, I'm just gonna give you a soft answer since we've already given you so much info in this one is social media. So just do what organically on social, figure out what your delivery method is. So if you wanna, you know, do MailChimp, I don't know what your church has in place right now. So if it's a that you have, or, um, maybe you're doing a hub or you have rock RMS, whatever that you're capturing people already. So you have some way that you're capturing emails already. There's probably a form option that connects to that, that you can deliver PDFs for. Um, I would say probably nine times outta 10. That's probably true. So, um,

Nick Clason (42:42):
Well in most of those, most of those, whether, yeah, most of those, whether you pay for them or not, um, you know, cuz there might be churches here that don't, that don't have those things built yet, you know? So you gotta, you gotta land something as a distribution. So figure that out. There are some free ones, but it they're all gonna be limited until you start paying for 'em. And so if you're not already paying for one, you can go find a free one, but it, it may take some time to find one that works for free because certain features like automatic, like opt-ins with automatic email triggers, like that often costs a little bit of money, you know? So you just have to be yeah. Kinda aware going into that.

Matt Johnson (43:23):
Yep. Oh absolutely. And, and that's, and then just post that on social to start out and get people to share that organically. Um, especially if you, like, I don't have any money for advertising. Don't worry about advertising right now. So start with some organic, um, ways to do that and build up your social presence, which will help you when you get to the advertising stage and you might have budget.

Nick Clason (43:47):
Hmm. Yeah. And you can, I mean, think about it. You you're in an organization, no matter like, even if you're under a hundred people like that, you have uh, 50, 75, whatever raving fans about you. So ask for their help to get the word out because how many times Matt do you and I like make a decision based off of a word of mouth recommendation, more than Yelp mm-hmm more than the stars on Google. Like if you tell me about a good restaurant, like I'm gonna trust you way more than a restaurant with 505 star reviews. Like I just am. Yep. Cause it that's just, that's just how our brains work for one reason or another. Like we don't all the other people that we don't know don't matter as much to us. Um, but, but you tell me about a good restaurant. I'm like, yeah, I'll try it, you know?

Matt Johnson (44:34):
Yep, exactly. Yeah. So keep that in mind.

Nick Clason (44:37):
Yep. For sure. All right. Any listen, tons of stuff here. Um, we'll try to link all the different examples that we put in there, uh, in the show notes so that you can see, cuz I don't know about you, but I'm visual. So we're talking about eBooks. I wanna show you an example. We're talking about white pages. I wanna show you an example. Um, but any, any other like last parting thoughts around this stuff, Matt, that you have before we, before we sign off?

Matt Johnson (45:02):
Um, no. I mean pick one of these and go, try to, you know, start brainstorming some ideas to get it done. So

Nick Clason (45:10):
Love it. All right guys. Good luck. Let us know how it's going. We'd love to hear from you@hybridministryontwitterhybridministry.xyz is the website and uh, we'd love for you to subscribe to this podcast. Give it a rating, give it a review. And if you found this helpful man, please share it with a friend. Uh, same thing we just said, let people know you found this helpful. So until next time we'll talk to you later. Bye guys.

SHOW NOTES
BARNA E-BOOK BEING REFERENCED
https://shop.barna.com/products/6-questions-about-the-future-of-the-hybrid-church-experience

PILLAR PAGE EXAMPLE
https://www.typeform.com/blog/guides/brand-awareness/

CROSSROADS ONLINE PLATFORM
https://www.crossroads.net/watch/

//BARNA EBOOK FINDINGS
51% of All US adults did not watch an online church service during COVID
18% of Practicing Christians did not

67% of churched adults now have an online option when their church didn’t have one before

90% primarily engaged with the same church they were committed to before COVID

78% of church dropouts are waiting until services go back to normal before they return

Churched Adults (36%) and Home with kids under 18 (41%) struggle to focus during online church

//DO YOU USE THE INTERNET FOR FAITH PURPOSES?
Practicing Christians - 66%
Churched Adults - 56%
Dropouts - 36%
Churched Gen Z - 67%
Churched Millennials 64%
Churched Gen X 58%
Churched Boomers 42%

//AFTER COVID WILL CHURCH GATHERINGS FIT YOUR LIFE?
Churched Gen Z
37% say both
13% say primarily digital
41% say physical
40% say both
13% say primarily digital
42% say primarily physical

TIMECODES
00:00-1:43 - Intro
01:43-02:57 - Findings from Barna Study on Hybrid
02:57-07:30 - 51% of US adults didnt' watch service online during COVID
07:30-12:36 - 67% of churched adults now have an online option
12:36-21:16 - How to set up a pillar page
21:16-23:08 - People stayed committed to their church during COVID
23:08-24:38 - 78% of dropouts are waiting until it's normal to return to church
24:38-28:08 - It's hard to remain focued while watching online
28:08-30:35 - Using the internet for Faith Purposes
30:35-32:46 - Post COVID church attendance survey data
32:46-34:35- Outro

TRANSCRIPT
Matt Johnson (00:01):
For young, I wanna be for forever young.

Matt Johnson (00:08):
Hey

Nick Clason (00:11):
Well, good morning. And hello everybody. Welcome to another episode of the hybrid ministry podcast. I am your host, Nick Clason alongside my great friend cohort. Compadre, Matt Johnson. How you doing this morning, Matt?

Matt Johnson (00:27):
Doing great, man. I'm a little tired, you know, have a newborn in another room. So that's been, uh, exciting, but you know, I'm, uh, worn out but you know, it's beautiful and it's a great thing. So

Nick Clason (00:40):
You're worn out. So let's talk about digital ministry to just reinvigorate you.

Matt Johnson (00:47):
I'm in

Nick Clason (00:48):
Let's, uh, real quick, like what are like the, like, what's the number one, most surprising thing about a newborn for you?

Matt Johnson (00:56):
Oh man. You know, the most surprising thing is how fulfilled I am. Um, you know, I, the second I've met her, I cried and you know, there's been multiple times I've been holding her and I just start crying. I'm like, this is really weird. Never thought fatherhood would hit me this way. And I think it just goes, you know, I lost my dad a few years ago. So like just layers of like who I am to this little thing that I'm holding, you know, that doesn't even have any idea what's going on in the world.

Nick Clason (01:23):
yeah. Yeah. That's that's awesome, man. Well, we're super happy for you, but obviously everybody wanted you back because, uh, you know, they missed, they, they missed you. Laughs. And they had just listened to me and that was boring so well, yeah. That's amazing, dude. So super happy for you. Um, today, uh, you know, Barna recently came out with a, an ebook, um, on the, I don't remember the exact title of it, but we'll link it in the show notes, but the findings in this new world of hybrid ministry and I dude, I promise you, right. We had this name before we knew about their ebook.

Matt Johnson (02:06):
So yes,

Nick Clason (02:07):
, we're technically not stealing from them, but they did release before us because, uh, we didn't have our crap together enough to get this thing up and off the ground.

Matt Johnson (02:16):

Nick Clason (02:17):
So , so it looks like we're stealing from them, but we promise we're not. So I was reading through that, uh, just the other day and there were just some statistics that kinda, um, I found interesting and I just wanted to share them and then us just kind of go back and forth and talk through 'em a little bit. So, um, you know, you and I were obviously promoting this idea of digital and physical ministry calling it hybrid. Uh, and so there are a couple of things that I found interesting that feel like maybe they're not, um, leaning towards hybrid or digital ministry being a good strategy. The first one is this 51% of all us adults did not watch an online church service during COVID. Um, and 18% of practicing Christians did not. So COVID hit a practicing Christian, almost 20% of them never even tuned into an online service. So those statistics right there, Matt, is there anything concerning with that? Like as you and I are like pushing for this idea of hybrid ministry, are, are we like, well, yeah, but people don't even really want it. That's, that's kind of how I would read that statistic.

Matt Johnson (03:31):
Yeah. I, uh, personally I'm not concerned mostly just cuz of the demographic and the ages that this did. I mean, it's not just, you know, millennials that they're pulling out in this stat, it's all adults. So you're gonna have boomers, gen X all in there too. And we know historically that they don't want to really tune in online. Um, I will say, I mean, if only 20, if 20% of practicing Christians did not tune in, I mean that means 80% did tune in at some point, which I mean that excites me. Um, cuz that means majority of people are trying to tune in. Um, and I also do, uh, if all us adults and 51% did not attend a church service of like everyone in the us, I, I mean might be the optimist I me, but that, that tells me 49% of people at least, you know, checked out a service at some point. So that's exciting. Uh, yeah. Which, you know, that's kind of correlates with the numbers that we have seen and you know, practicing religion anyway. So, um, I

Nick Clason (04:31):
Mean you can paint them as negative. Right. But there's also the other side too, which is there, there is positivity in it such depends, I guess how you wanna look at it.

Matt Johnson (04:40):
Yeah. And I would just say like, don't get discouraged just cuz 20, you know, about 20% of practicing Christians did not because I would say, you know, that's probably the 20% of people that regardless never will.

Nick Clason (04:52):
Yeah. Well and one of the, I mean, gosh, one of the things we've noticed in our church is that, um, COVID hit and we lost contact with just a lot of people. And so mm-hmm, , that's probably a nationwide phenomenon as well. Um, especially depending on the size of church, you know, you and I obviously work at a pretty large church and so it's, it's harder for us to have contact with every single one, uh, of the people, you know, that,

Matt Johnson (05:16):
That least, yeah. Something else that I would ask, seeing the number start to cut you off. Nick is no,

Nick Clason (05:21):
You're good.

Matt Johnson (05:22):
Um, how were, were these churches that these 20%, 18% did not get practice online? Is that because they weren't communicated well to, um, were the, were things not implemented quick enough for them? So, you know, they were like, you know, they get out their habit habit of I'm gonna go attend church, which I think that could definitely be part of that factor too. I mean, I think in my grandpa's church who, you know, runs a small Methodist church of 20 people and they try to do online and it was him in his kitchen, but you know, his congregation is primarily 60 to 80 years old, so they're not gonna really go on Facebook to watch.

Nick Clason (05:58):
So yeah. I also think that, um, what you and I are proposing and talking about in the life of this podcast is not an online church service. No like that it be an element to it and it could be an element to it. But I think we're trying to actually create a more dynamic and robust, um, framework for hybrid ministry. Exactly. Because I do exactly that people do like the, the X factor of the church is the fact that we gather together and we create real authentic community. Like, yeah, that's what sets us apart. We're not just a content machine. And so the con the converse of that is that if the church is just a content machine, like if we're not doing it well, or, um, like if we feel like we should have to compete with the world, we may lose out on that, unless we have something that's uniquely different and we do, and that's Jesus and that's community, but so how do we take those things that uniquely set us apart as the church and create something hybrid in that?

Nick Clason (07:08):
And so while some of these stats may look, you know, cryptic or whatever, for what we're proposing, I would argue that we're saying, yeah, stream your service, but also, like don't only stream your service and call that your digital presence. There's so much more to a digital presence, just go back and exactly all the things we've, we've talked about in the week, the episodes before, so, okay. Yeah. So then, uh, 67%, um, of church adults now have an online option and when their church didn't have one before. So if anything, what we've seen now is that COVID has ushered the church, you know, into this new, this new phenomenon. I think in my dad's church, not the one he's at now, but the one that he was at when COVID was going on. And, uh, they, they did have a live stream, but dude, like I think that their live stream was someone setting their iPhone up in the balcony.

Nick Clason (08:06):
And like, that was how they live stream, you know, and they're not super produced even now, but they did, like, they did grab a couple of, you know, elements to, to boost their live stream. And so they now do like lower thirds instead of just like just putting the phone up and hoping that people can see the screen and, um, like stuff like that, you know, to make themselves a little bit more, uh, online savvy. And so I think a lot of churches went through some sort of online iteration. And so now that you have the hardware and the software, and maybe even some of the soft skills, like the know how and how to set this thing up, it now gives the ma you know, the overwhelming majority of churched adults, an online option that they didn't have before. And so yes, stream your service, but also what are different ways, Matt, that you could even see them packaging that, um, that content, that audio, that video to create hybrid, you know, elements throughout their week.

Matt Johnson (09:08):
Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of different ways you could, um, package it, but what are the best ways right now I'd say is to just get some of that short form content out of that live message. Um, we've talked a lot about that, especially if you're trying to hit the millennial gen Z. Um, there actually was just another study that came out that said the best way to reach that. Um, millennials in general is video that's under 60 seconds long. So, um, if you could figure out a good way to like package, I don't know, 62nd clip with a, um, let's say a 200 word blog or 200 word write up about it. And you could package that as a, Hey, our weekly recap or whatever. Oh yeah. I don't know if you watch baseball at all. Um, but, uh, one of my favorite things about baseball right now is like, if you tune into a game late, especially on specifically on YouTube TV, it gives you a six inning recap of, or like whatever inning you're coming in of all the plays you've missed, which I, uh, that's something I personally love, cuz I can catch up on my baseball games really quickly.

Matt Johnson (10:09):
But so do that for your sermon. Like do a, Hey here's our sermon recap for the week you give it in content short form. Um, and let me know what's going on with, uh, whatever you got going on in, at your church that week. Uh, that's the probably gonna be the best way to reach millennial and gen Z right now.

Nick Clason (10:27):
And do you think Matt that like obviously, well, first of all, baseball's boring. If you can catch up on a game in 60 seconds, that's my take on it, but uh, would you suggest that the best way to do that would be through, um, like maybe TikTok or Instagram, but are you saying like throw that on like a mobile friendly, um, website or like a page on your website? That's like maybe a blog page that's dynamic, that's moving, that's being updated. Um, and then that, is that the way to do it, send it out via email, like what would be your distribution? Like that's a great concept. I love that. I don't even know if there's churches really doing that in the iteration that you're explaining, but how would you, uh, suggest a church if you know, we hired you as our marketing manager, how would you suggest a church set that up technically on the backside? Does that make sense?

Matt Johnson (11:16):
Yeah. No, all of the above are great options. Um, the big thing, so here, well, let's go through all the avenues. So Instagram TikTok, you're gonna have broader reach. So if that's what you're trying to get, go for that email, you're gonna have your best reach. So, uh, Seth goin always talks about how your email list is like your gold. Um, if you get really good people on your email list and they're engaged, like that's your cream of your crop, they're gonna be hot no matter what. So, um, that's a great way to distribute, distribute it, but we also know it can be a challenge to get emails. So, um, if that's not, you know, uh, something that you have built, you don't have a CRM or anything built on the back end or a data management system. I would, okay. Let's all right. What's next website, which this could easily be a pillar page or a cluster topic of like, Hey, you're serving recaps and all that SEO is gonna drive your website. The video content is gonna weigh higher on Google and you can just continue adding stuff to that page of like here's our sermon recap page. And that page will just be built out more and more. And if you can just imagine this page, that scrolls forever, and you have a nice little table of content at the top that you can like jump around and stuff. That's gonna weigh very high on SEO. So, um, so which we are actually seeing currently with Google,

Nick Clason (12:36):
So let's get super nerdy on a pillar page. So I know what that is. Cuz you told me what it is, but I didn't know what it was till you told me what it was a couple of months ago. So first of all, what is a pillar page?

Matt Johnson (12:47):
So a pillar page is just a fancy term of like, okay, you've pick a topic. So let's, let's uh, let's talk about small groups. Small groups is always a great, uh, no let's do youth ministry since you're a youth leader. You knows. There we go. Let's now we're talking the finals, let's go into the world that we know. Yeah. so let's say we created a pillar page. That was everything you need to know about, uh, youth ministry in 2022. Um, so we titled that page specifically to be some of those search terms that you're gonna have. And then that pillar page should just be built out of like the who, what, when, where, why, how so, but blogs, curated content. And when I talk about curated content, I think that confuses a lot of people cuz they think, oh, we're just gonna, um, take content that we have or whatever, and just re put it on there.

Matt Johnson (13:31):
You can do that. But when I'm seeing curated content, I'm talking about other people's content and doing back links for them too. Mm-hmm um, that helps you weigh higher on SEO. Um, and also on this page should be, uh, you know, copy about like, okay, this is everything you need to know about youth ministry. And then on there you could have your video tutorials, you could have, um, white pages ebook. So it's everything that you're gonna release about a topic on one page. So the Google term of it is a content cluster, which it's like a cluster of all the content you have. The pillar page is what the marketing term is that you're gonna hear a lot for it. Um, so if you created, uh, let's say life, church recap page, and on that recap page, it's just everything that life church has done, you know, over the last year. And it's a recap of all their sermons. It's a play by play or whatever. You're gonna weigh higher on SEO when people are searching for like, okay, I'm looking for, how do I deal with anxiety? And if you had a sermon about anxiety, that's gonna weigh higher on that page for you.

Nick Clason (14:40):
That's great, man. So here's my question then as someone who's a novice, as it comes to like internet, uh, website development and all that stuff, obviously if I pay for developer, I'm gonna gonna get this done. Right. But let's pretend I don't have the money to do that. Or I might just, you know, waiting into this now for the very first time, uh, how, like, can you set up a pillar page? Like, is there like a pillar page for dummies? Is there like a couple of things that they can do through like a basic square space, Wix or WordPress site that will get them at least on the right path? Cuz maybe, you know, someone's listening to this and they're not the senior leader. They don't have the authorization to spend the money, but they believe in it. And so they want to take it on as a pet project, but they need to prove to their upper level leadership or their senior pastor that this is valuable. Can you give someone in that boat, any sort of like tips on how to get some of that stuff up and rolling?

Matt Johnson (15:31):
Yeah, definitely. You can a hundred percent create a pillar page through, you know, WICS or Squarespace or something. Um, you're just gonna be limited by, uh, the fact that you're in a template, which is okay. So I want to be very clear about that. Like that is okay. Um, it's just gonna be laid out how Squarespace really wants it laid out or Wix wants it laid out. Um,

Nick Clason (15:50):
As opposed to the custom, like I want it, I want this feature, like you can't ne maybe necessarily accommodate that. You're just stuck in the template.

Matt Johnson (15:59):
Yeah, exactly. So if you're like, Hey, I don't like how this jumps to there. You're not gonna really be able to finesse around that, but that's okay if you're just getting started through pillar page, cuz really a pillar page is meant to just be a really long content cluster. So just start adding everything you have on there and just lay it out in a logical sense. So don't uh, just throw stuff willy-nilly on it. Like don't go from like what this is about to, this is how you do it then to the why, like you need to start with like, you know, why and the what, and then go to the how, like, just like a story you don't just go straight to the climax of it

Nick Clason (16:38):
And, and let, let's throw like a couple pillar page examples, you know, in the show notes so that people can go check those out. Yeah,

Matt Johnson (16:44):
Absolutely.

Nick Clason (16:45):
See some of them what we're talking about. Yeah. But can you think of off top of your head or do we need to stop recording and then you, you comb your brain for some good pillar page

Matt Johnson (16:54):
Exams? No, there's a, there's a great pillar page that Typeform has, um, that I would love to, uh, that we can add into, um, the show notes and really the pillar page is all about uh, um, gosh, I can't remember. Give one second think

Nick Clason (17:14):
this is, uh,

Matt Johnson (17:15):
Brand awareness that thought it's about yeah, it's it's about brand awareness. Um, they did a whole pillar page about how you can build brand awareness, uh, Typeform data. And that's just been, uh, perfectly laid out. Actually I will even put it in our notes here. So you have it, love it. Um, and you can take a look at it, but this is really what Hillary pages should look like gives you how much, uh, time it would read. Uh, there's usually a table of content at the top and then you can jump through and find what you wanna read about. So, um,

Nick Clason (17:49):
I will link to that. You guys can see it. Yeah.

Matt Johnson (17:51):
Pick it out. And it's a perfect example of a pillar page and I need, I wanna reiterate pillar pages are big. So this pillar page is a 44 minute read and it's meant to build SEO. Like that's what it's meant for. So when I, uh, we were building a pillar page at a church now and you guys came to me about it and I was talking through with like the kids director and stuff. I was like, I need, let's

Nick Clason (18:10):
Be clear. You came up with the idea first. And then I said, we should do this and

Matt Johnson (18:15):
Then got

Nick Clason (18:15):
The kids director on board.

Matt Johnson (18:17):
So yes. Yeah. And I was sitting down with her and she's like, is that enough content? I was like, no, I need about 30,000 words. and I could see her go what? And I was like, okay, maybe not 30,000, but I need about 3000 words. Like I would need a lot of con copy for a pillar page to work. So it's something you constantly build. It's not just something that day one, you have 200 words and it's a blog post. Like a pillar page is not bigger than a blog post.

Nick Clason (18:42):
Does it take on like, like, okay, cuz I guess the way I'm looking at it, let's pretend it's like Instagram. So Instagram, if you're scrolling, it'll keep loading be beneath you and it'll just scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll until like, never like you can probably never really find the bottom of Instagram. Yep. However, like Google, right? Like it's, it's got a billion options, but at when you get to the bottom of your page, it'll be like go to page two. Yeah. Can it go either of those directions or is there one way that is better than the other

Matt Johnson (19:14):
Scroll scroll? Does that make sense? Scroll. Yeah, I would do scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll. Okay. And then if you wanna link to other stuff outside of it, that's totally fine. So like, Hey, go check out this blog. That's fine. And what that gives you is back links and you want back links and we back links. You have the higher websites weighted. It's all this weird stuff on the back. End of Google.

Nick Clason (19:34):
Yeah. Okay. Great. Love it. No, that's listen, dude. That's the type of stuff that I'm in idiot about, but uh, I know it's good. So I'm trying to learn.

Matt Johnson (19:41):
Yeah, no I'm here.

Nick Clason (19:43):
So yeah, pillar pages. Um, we took a little detour there, but that's, we're gonna, that's what this is episode is about. Like how do you build it? What are they, how are they advantageous? And so we can do with our 67% church adults who now have an online option, we can take some of that and use that to add to the pillar page mm-hmm . And so could you make it where it's like one week it's, uh, 62nd sermon recap with like the downloadable notes or something. And instead of them being downloadable, you're saying just type all those words into there,

Matt Johnson (20:13):
So that a hundred percent

Nick Clason (20:14):
It can be found. And then could you add to it next week, week two of the love sermon series and the 62nd recap clip and uh, the sermon notes or something like that.

Matt Johnson (20:24):
Exactly. Yeah. And you would be shocked on, I, I guarantee if someone, you little churches go out there and do that, you'll be weighed high on Google. Um, like do a, how to love, how to be loving as a Christian series. Um, cuz most places are not doing this most churches aren't doing this. And then secondly, uh, if they have done this it's so long ago that like, like you'll start to outweigh Google cuz you were creating new content for it.

Nick Clason (20:51):
So, uh, would you recommend like someone typing up a sermon recap or would you recommend just copy and pasting the pastor's manuscript notes?

Matt Johnson (21:01):
Uh, both. So the best solution would be to do a recap, but if you don't have time to do a recap, then just do the sermon notes right now. Like okay. Do the recap as like that's all right. I'm gonna make this better than do the recap.

Nick Clason (21:16):
Gotcha. Great. All right. So a couple other of stats I wanted to look into from the barn of study, 90% of people primarily engaged with the same church that they were committed to before. COVID and I think that that's a really, uh, hopefully a really helpful stat for us as pastors, because we feel like maybe this idea of all of us going online is they're gonna find something better and then they're gonna switch. Yeah. And they're not gonna wanna go to our church anymore. And our church isn't as good as elevation. They have verdict and they have band that makes music that's on Spotify. But 90% of, of churchgoers, primarily engaged with the same church, which communicates to me that most Christians are comm or are connected or committed right to their local body. They're not, they're not looking for something else. They, they have what they want. They have the community that they're, they're looking for. And so as a church, you putting your content out there, you may be, you know, so I've heard people say like, I don't wanna steal other people from other churches. Like that's that's that wouldn't be the goal. Right? The goal is to help nurture and disciple the people that are already going to your church.

Matt Johnson (22:30):
Exactly. Your online church should not be like, oh, I'm gonna steal someone. Else's congregation like this isn't some nefarious thing we're doing. It should be, Hey, we're here to nurture our 90% of people that are still engaged with our church, which that tells me, like you were just saying, they bought into your community that you built there. So yeah. Nurture them. give them stuff that makes them keep wanting to come back period.

Nick Clason (22:57):
Yeah. Well, not even keep wanting to come back, but like learn during the week.

Matt Johnson (23:01):
Exactly. Yeah. That's what I mean by that.

Nick Clason (23:04):
Yeah. Yeah. Not just, not just come to our church on Sunday. Yeah.

Nick Clason (23:08):
Uh, 78% of church dropouts are saying that they're waiting until services go back to normal before they return. I think that would be a lot of pastor's arguments of, well, see, see, we gotta go back to in person, we gotta go back to in person. And I don't, I don't think any of us are arguing that we shouldn't be back in person. Yeah. Uh, but I that's, I, I would be curious about that percentage of that stat. Hum. Those people are using that as an excuse as their church, uh, attendance patterns and disciplines have just completely faded away. Um, and they're just saying, oh yeah, I'm just waiting for it to go back to normal. Realizing that COVID has never really ended being normal. Like we're just still in this weird like world with it. And there is, I don't know if normal will ever come back the way it was. Cuz it's been two and a half freaking years.

Matt Johnson (23:56):
yeah, no, this is the new normal. And I would just like you were saying, I, my guess is that's probably us excuse for most people now. Um, mm-hmm they got out of the habit, which you know, we've we saw that in our own numbers and that's okay. Like go find the next seeds to sell.

Nick Clason (24:13):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure. And again, we're not proposing like, well yeah, you should stream your service. Like if you can, you should. But we're also saying that there's this there's more to just hybrid. It's not just take your Sunday morning experience and post it on Facebook live. Yeah. There we're, we're trying to make this much more dynamic than

Matt Johnson (24:33):
That. Exactly.

Nick Clason (24:35):
All right. A couple other quick, quick hitters here. Um, but one thing I found really interesting was 36% of church adults, um, that were at home and people with kids under the age of 18, which is like 41% say that they struggle to focus during online church. And again, I think that's another potentially like negative stat towards, towards digital. So what would you say if someone's like? Yeah, I mean I, online church is great and all, but like I got young kids, like I, I can't, it's hard to pay attention the whole time or it's hard to keep them, you know, from being too rowdy or whatever during church.

Matt Johnson (25:11):
Yeah. No, the data tells us that if you're just streaming your exact service online, you're gonna have

Nick Clason (25:18):
It's an hour and 15 minute

Matt Johnson (25:20):
Service. Yeah. You're gonna have more drop off. Um, just cuz that attention span on an hour and 15 minutes on anything screen related, that's not an action movie drops off. So, um, yeah, if they, they probably will just tune into the sermon and that's okay. Or some just tune into the worship. That's my mom, she loves the worship and then she likes listening to the sermon, um, when she's driving to work the next day, which is, yeah, that's an okay option too, but you're giving them the avenue. So I get that. You're gonna struggle to focus during online. Um, that's gonna happen, especially if you have kids, uh, as you know, and I'm learning so

Nick Clason (25:58):
Well, I'll tell you what, what we would do during COVID is we would watch like older people church upstairs, and then we would send our kids to the basement to watch, uh, like their kid service. Well, their kid service was over in like 12 minutes

Matt Johnson (26:13):

Nick Clason (26:14):
And so they come up at the end of worship. Yeah. And we're like, well, well, Hey, like go, Hey, let's watch, let's watch last week's again. And we, it was really hard, man. It was really hard. So it was hard to, it was hard to simulate church. Yep. Um, because it wasn't, I don't think it's meant to be that per se. No it's. And so I would, I would, as a, as a dad of kids under the age of five, I would agree with that stat wholeheartedly. Yep. Honestly, Easter 20, 20 Amanda and I watched church at like 10:30 PM when the kids are in bed.

Matt Johnson (26:49):
Yeah.

Nick Clason (26:49):
Like, because we are like, that's when we can in this, when we're unencumbered by them. Yeah. You know,

Matt Johnson (26:54):
So, and I think what we're landing on is like, it's okay to have these different avenues to consume the media. And also if you're like, Hey, I wanna, I wanna make our church service more, uh, more engaging for these people. Like then go solve that problem. Like go more power to you. Yeah,

Nick Clason (27:15):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. But to just overlay what you're doing in person on top of online, like that's, I don't know. I mean, dare I say it's a little lazy. Yeah. Like, and, and if you don't have the manpower for it, I get it. So we're not proposing that you reinvent the wheel, like crossroads in Cincinnati has a completely like custom hybrid online experience. Yep. And that's amazing. Right. I'll link I'll link theirs in the show notes too. I got somebody thinks to link in the show notes, but um, like the like yeah. So that's amazing, but they have the main power to do it. And you're probably again sitting here thinking like I barely have the main power to like do all the things I need to do. Um, and so we're not proposing that we're saying think, think about this as a side of the box, offer church streaming adjacent options. Not just only church streaming options. Exactly.

Nick Clason (28:06):
So, yeah. All right. A couple other real quick things. Um, this was interesting to me, I'll throw all these stats and stuff in the show notes, but so do you use the internet for faith purposes? So I'm just gonna read 'em and we'll kind of digest it. Practicing Christians set 66% of practicing. Christians said that they use the internet for faith purposes. 56% of church adults said that they use the internet for faith purposes. 36% of dropouts say that they use the internet for faith purposes, church, gen Z 67%, church millennials, 64% church, gen X, 58% church boomers, 42%. So I think a couple things that are interesting, obviously when you start with gen Z, it's the highest and it drops down as it gets to boomers. But one thing I notice is that even the gen Xers and the boomers still say almost 50% say that they use the internet for faith purposes. Mm-hmm . So if the argument is my church is old and this isn't for them, I, that categorically is untrue.

Matt Johnson (29:08):
Yep. Yeah, no, absolutely. And the only way to get younger is if you do it, so stats. I mean, that's what the stats are saying too. So if you're like, Hey, we wanna get younger, but we don't wanna, you know, kill our older, uh, congregation. Like they're gonna, they're all gonna be okay with it.

Nick Clason (29:29):
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, a, a church boomer will read a recap email. Like they, they respond email. My grandma reads email. In fact, my grandma couldn't connect to the internet the other day and was convinced that someone was trying to hack her bank account. And so I had to, I had to turn her wifi off and turn it back on and get her connected. And she thought that I am the number one, it director in the world.

Matt Johnson (29:55):
my grandpa, my grandpa, all the D coffee. TV's not working. Can you fix me? Like, did you unplug it? You're genius.

Nick Clason (30:07):
Yeah, but they'll read it. They'll read the emails, man. She, and dude, I was at my grandma's and she's like, can you help me unsubscribe from some emails? And I'm like, sure. So I'm like getting her set up with an UNS subscription service. And I was like, how about JC Penn? She's like, no, I like that one. . How about, how about your green bay Packers newsletter. Now I need to know what's going on. Withs green bay. Packer's newsletter. . How about this now? I, I need that gram. You don't actually wanna be in subscribe

Matt Johnson (30:30):
For anything Nope. Oh, that's fine.

Nick Clason (30:34):
All right. A couple another one that was interesting after C will church gatherings fit your life church, gen Z 37% said that both digital and physical would fit their lifestyle. 13% say that primary digital would fit their lifestyle. And 41% say physical will fit their lifestyle. So this is church gen Z. So I think one thing that stood out to me about this statistic, cuz that only 13% said that primarily primarily digital would be, uh, their preference for, uh, attending church post COVID mm-hmm . And so right. We continue to say gen Z, gen Z. And we, we are kind of pegging a lot of this on them and them as the future, but they still want in person, they're not looking for only digital. Exactly. We're looking for hybrid, which is what we're trying to find that, that sticky in between, between the two things.

Nick Clason (31:29):
Exactly. So, and same with millennials. Millennials are, uh, I think slightly higher, uh, 40% say that both online in person, 13% say primarily digital, which is the same as gen Z and then 42% say primarily physical. So they're right on the same track there as, as gen Zers. But they're saying that, um, basically the both that's hybrid man. Yep. Like that's what we're trying to say. Yep. They wanna come in person, but they also want to have access to it when they can't make it or for whatever reason, they're not able to be at church. They want to consume something online. Yep. So, so that's, that's it any other like kind of lasting thoughts that you had just through some of these statistics, like we'll, we'll link to the Barna, uh, ebook and so you can grab a copy of it yourself, but there are, uh, there's just a, there's a lot of really good and really interesting stuff in there. So any other thing that you are like, did you miss this? You should have highlighted this or just, or parting thoughts based on some of this data?

Matt Johnson (32:30):
No, I, I mean my biggest parting thought is like the, the data staying that hybrid is an avenue that we need to be exploring. So continue, um, exploring this avenue , I mean, don't, don't get discouraged, the data supports it.

Nick Clason (32:45):
Yeah. And get, and, and, you know, getting into hybrid, um, and getting into some of those digital platforms. Like it can be, it can be laborious and it can be cumbersome and setting up your account and then setting up your group and then setting up your payments, like all that stuff. Like, and it can get confusing because all those companies are trying to sell you things. Yeah. And they're all the best company and that's at least what they're telling you. And so you gotta, you gotta kind of slug slug through some of those things, like setting up email marketing, you know, uh, things or setting up, you know, CHMS things or just, it it's worth it, you know, but it can get, it can feel overwhelming at times. Yep. So stick with it. It's worth it. Find something that works. There's a lot of, um, free or light versions out there.

Nick Clason (33:35):
And probably for most of us that that will suffice at least for a while. Yeah. Until it gets to a spot where it needs to be, you know, super, super, uh, hefty as far as the payment is so sweet. Hey, uh, that's it for us on episode five? Um, maybe six. I actually can't really remember because, um, I think this was supposed to be episode five, but then I did one last week by myself. Yep. And so this may actually be episode six. I think it is, but yeah. Glad to have you guys, uh, subscribe, uh, follow us on Twitter at hybrid ministry. Also check out our website hybrid ministry.xyz. Uh, give us a rating. Pull open your purple podcast app search hybrid ministry. We're right there. We're number one. If you search that word and give us a little rating, that'd be awesome. I love it. And until next time see you guys later. Thanks guys. Was

Matt Johnson (34:28):
That just had some nasty bug on.

TIMECODES
00:00-1:37 Who is Gen Z?
1:37-6:07 Gen Z prefers small groups more than large gatherings
6:07-10:25 Industrial vs. Digital Thinking
10:25-16:24 Busyness is not the problem
16:24-27:14 How to make a ministry model of small groups
27:14-32:25 How to set up a small group for the ultimate win
32:25-37:00 Conclusion and Outro

TRANSCRIPT
Nick Clason (00:02):
Well, hello there everybody. Welcome to episode five of a hybrid ministry podcast, solo pod today. Um, my cohost Matt is, uh, having a baby at the time of this recording. So next time we talk to him, he's gonna, he's gonna be a dad for the first time. So that's exciting. And, uh, we were scheduled to record. He's having a baby. I was like, yo dude, don't, don't worry about, don't worry about this. Don't worry about podcasting. We'll get to, we'll get to another day. And so sure enough, that's where we are. And so I am, uh, doing this on my own today. Uh, excited to have a quick conversation with you. Uh, but because it was just me had to do a little bit of deviation. So in this episode, we're gonna talk about generation Z a little bit more. I've told you in the past that I am a youth pastor and, uh, just something that I've been thinking about and noticing now for quite some time.

Nick Clason (01:02):
Uh, but this generation, I mean, they are just so different than the generations that have come before us. Uh, even as a millennial myself, I notice so much, uh, variance in who generation Z is what, uh, where some pain points are for, for us as student pastors. Um, and maybe just some opportunities of ways that we can use hybrid ministry to be reaching gen Z. You've heard Matt and I talk about some of the stats from Barna, um, that gen Z prefers it looks for a hybrid model. And so I kinda wanna dig into a little bit more. Um, so there's a, there's a statistic that came to, to me, uh, from, uh, crossroads in Cincinnati. I was at a conference in crossroads, did a study, um, of post COVID generation, Z teenagers under the age of 18. So a lot of the generation Z data that you see is gonna be gen Z students over the age of 18 due to liability reasons and the legality of, you know, pulling data from, uh, from people who have to be old enough.

Nick Clason (02:16):
And so what they were able to do is they have a data team. So they're able to find a way to, uh, talk to their teenagers and their parents get permission from them. Um, and so all these students have been through COVID, uh, it's the most recent up to date info info that you can find on them and they're teenagers. So they're the, the students that are actually in your church, your student ministry, or not yours, but theirs. Um, and, and it probably matches, you know, they're in the Midwest. And so you may have some different, um, insight Intel, but here's the fact of the matter. Um, it, honestly, this information shocked me, not in the fact of like, when I heard it, I was like, wow, that doesn't track, but more like, oh my gosh, yes, this is exactly what I've been thinking, what I've been feeling.

Nick Clason (03:03):
So here's the statistic 68% say that they prefer small gatherings over big parties. Uh, if you dig into that, even just a little bit more, uh, 65% of their attendees said that, and 76% of students that were not attending their church or not coming regularly said that they prefer that. So if you're a student ministry that wants to reach students, which odds are, you are that's most, uh, churches, most student ministries, even those that are not there have been overwhelming majority priority on, um, coming to things that are small gatherings over large parties. And I'm, I'm not a hundred percent sure why we would say that. Um, but I have have a feeling, um, that this generation, um, is ex well, I mean, I don't have a feeling. This is empirical. This is evidence. This generation was experiencing some of the highest rates of anxiety that we've ever seen before in the history of the world.

Nick Clason (04:11):
Um, pre C I heard a statistic that the average teenager was experiencing mental health and anxiety related issues at a higher clip than that of a mental health, um, admitted institutionalized patient from the 1950s. This is pre COVID. This is before the world got locked down. And this is before you were told that if you go near your grandmother, you might kill her. And so that is just an absolutely obviously absolutely terrifying proposition. Uh, so much has changed so much of the world has shifted. And so I think that, you know, I don't know that it's like large parties are a fear factor because of COVID. But I think that just the gosh, the overwhelming, like posture and position of needing to isolate, needing to be alone, I, I have just sensed a gigantic difference from them. Um, kind of coming out of that. And I know a lot of people older, the me, like, you know, gen Z teenagers of what they need, man, they need to interact with each other and relate better.

Nick Clason (05:20):
And like, yeah, all those things are true for sure. Um, but I think what we need to just remember as, as pastors, as church leaders, is that the next wave of people, um, they want to gather together they want community, but it looks different than it did before. When I was growing up as a millennial youth group was like, just cliche, right? Like, Hey, let's get as many kids here as we can. Whoever brings the most friends, gets an Xbox. And if you guys get 200 friends here, I will swallow a goldfish like that was youth ministry. And I mean, gosh, I've used some of those tactics myself. I shaved my head one time cuz we had a certain number of kids that came. That's a very industrial way of thinking. Matt's mentioned that before. And the industrial way of thinking is just this whole kinda like assembly line idea.

Nick Clason (06:19):
How many can we get here? How, how much performance, how much quality can we get the digital generation, which is gen Z and those that are coming behind. Most of us, uh, they are valuing access engagement and ultimately community. They wanna know that they are a real person, that they're an individual that they're not just another number. And so, gosh, I know it sounds so cliche. We've all heard it before. We've even probably said it, but students won't care how much we know until they know how much we care. And while this is the, the fact of the matter with our gen Z students, this is also what we're seeing with our church attenders and church members. And so we need to find a way to create community and put a priority on individualism, on small groups, with these statistics, with these facts coming at us and you know, like maybe gathering everyone together in a gigantic room where you swallow a goldfish for entertainment.

Nick Clason (07:23):
Value is not the win anymore because here's the thing. If we gather everyone in a room and you swallow a goldfish, uh, like how many of those 200 students in that room's story, did you really get to know like, did you really dive in and learn who they are and what's bothering them and the issues that they're facing and the questions that they're asking, because ultimately when we look at the model and method of Jesus, he spent tons of time, like sure, Jesus spoke to 5,000 and he broke the bread. But then he, he spent the majority of the time that we see him throughout the gospels, he spent the majority of that time individually with his disciples. And then he spent even more of it with his 12. And then he invested heavily in the three. And then in John who wrote the gospel of John, he described himself as the disciple that he loved the most.

Nick Clason (08:30):
And so Jesus even did that where he spent more and more time individually with his people that he's trying. So those disciples, Peter, James, John, those that were closest to him, they knew how much Jesus cared and they were a part of something with him. And then when they belonged with Jesus, it became much easier for them to turn the corner on belief. I mean, what if, what if the model that Jesus laid out is what the church should be trying to accomplish? Because that's ultimately what happened. Jesus gives the great commission right before the Ascension up to heaven and he says, Hey, do, as I've done walk, as I've walked, take what I've done and re uh, apply it to the world around you. What if this model that Jesus laid out thousands of years ago is what gen Z is really looking for.

Nick Clason (09:32):
What if, what the church has become with the lights and the bells and the whistles and the haze and the what if they're not for that? Like, I I've heard, uh, I've heard younger people in my church talk about the amount of money that we spend on production value, all in an aim and an effort to get people in the room. And then, and then they say, okay, yeah, that's great. But what are we doing to care for the, the poor people down the street in, in downtown Chicago? And, and what if like all the amount of pressure that we put on ourselves as churches to try and get everyone in the building? What if, what if that is not really what they're looking for? Cause I know it sounds cliche, right? But they don't care how much we know until they know how much we care.

Nick Clason (10:20):
And they're looking for smaller gatherings. Uh, there's a study that Barna did several years ago. Um, and it was well, yeah, several years ago. So 2016, uh, and, and there was a statistic, um, that said 74% of student youth pastors say that teen busyness is the main obstacle to their ministry. And I think the reason being is as he I'll just tell you, anecdotally, as a youth pastor, I, I would feel that in the, the lane or in the sense of like, okay, so, Hey, we have ones in that youth group, you should be here. And then, uh, Susie can't come because Susie has play practice. And max can't come cuz max just made, uh, the football team. And so Susie and max are missing and they're some of you, my core students. And I wish they were there, but they can't be there because they have stuff going on.

Nick Clason (11:17):
Their schedules are an obstacle to me and my ministry. And so, uh, I think most, most of us in ministry, most youth pastors would say that. I mean, I don't know if you've ever been on like the D YM Facebook group or youth pastors only Facebook group and like seen some of those questions. But gosh, those are some of the, those are some of the main points of conversation. All right. So my, my biggest obstacle in my ministry is student business, 74, almost almost three quarters of youth pastors in America that were surveyed said that. Now check this out. This is the thing that's so fascinating to me because I think we've been, we've been banging that drum for years. We've been saying, we're you guys are too busy. You gotta back it down. You gotta come to the thing. You gotta come to our, our event, right?

Nick Clason (12:05):
And this is gen Z. These are these students and they wanna do stuff. They wanna do extracurricular activities. Uh, with that same notion, I wish your teen wasn't so busy with that posture towards parents, check this out. 31% of parents think that their teenagers actually need more to do as opposed to less to do all of us would say back your schedules down, find more margin, find more white space and check this only 11%, 11% of parents think that their child is way too busy and way too overscheduled. So the problem that we as youth pastors feel or face is not the same problem that parents are feeling or facing as they're leading their children. And so what I am proposing, what I am thinking, perhaps student ministry, ministry to gen Z, uh, millennials can look like more in the future is they, you can put less pressure on the one, uh, once a week, individual gathering and instead pour all of your gas, all of your effort on to more relationally charged intimate community based settings, where, you know, the individual, I mean, guys, this is tried and true stuff, right?

Nick Clason (13:21):
Like I, I train and talk to my small group leaders, uh, at nauseam about the importance of knowing their students and knowing them well. And the reality is if one of my small group leaders has 35 students on a roster, they're not doing that. They're not knowing those students individually and they're not knowing them well, but they have a lot of kids on their roster. And as people who've been trained in an industrial way and an industrial line of thinking that, uh, communicates a fair level of success, well, you have 35 kids. Oh my word. That's a lot of people in a small group. Yeah. But how many of those 35 do you know? Well, and do you know, intimately, you know, orange wrote the book a couple years ago called lead small and it's, it's one of the most profound books because I think it's one of the things that all of all youth pastors in America would want to articulate.

Nick Clason (14:19):
And it's so simple, but it's so clear and it's so good. And so I actually use the book lead small as a small group leader's, uh, job description essentially. And so the five principles on it and listen, I'm gonna try and pull this off the top of my head. So if I do it, gimme, gimme kudos, but it's to be present it's to show up, show up, randomly show up predictably, um, and show up like outside of the program time. Uh, so it's it show up or be present it's, uh, create a safe place. It's partnered with parents. It's moved them out. That's four out of five guys. That's pretty dang good. Um, I can't remember the fifth one, and those of you listening on the other and you're screaming at me right now, but listen, this is hard when you don't have a cohost, you don't have your brain, doesn't have room to breathe.

Nick Clason (15:05):
So Colin, Cal, I don't know how you do it every week, but congratulations, you are an absolute magician cuz just talking into a microphone by yourself for hours. That is hard. Now my point in saying all that as, uh, lead small is that it's, it's really quite simple because if you look at it, it goes back to what Jesus did. And so church has looked, um, much more produced and much more glamorized. And I think a lot of that was a product of the industrial age. How can we Polish this and bring a level of quality that is going to produce the highest amount of attenders? That's been our goal. How do we get the most amount of people here in this room? And that's not, that's not been a bad thing. I don't think, but I think it's giving us a lot of quantitative data and not a lot of qualitative data.

Nick Clason (15:56):
We know a lot of people are here, but, but what are their stories? Well, yeah, you gotta get in a small group. Exactly. That's what we're saying. And that's what gen Z's saying. They say we don't care about the big thing. The big show, like you can't outer entertain us. We have TikTok on our phone. There are people swallowing, goldfish all day long on there. What we want is real, what we want is authentic. And so, you know, just one of the things that we've done is, uh, we have actually pulled away in our student ministry and, and decentralized. Um, and what I mean by that is, yeah, we gather together every once in a while, but really the, the win is what happens in the small group type setting. And so just for a little bit of backdrop, a little bit of context in our setting, um, we only meet with our students one time a week.

Nick Clason (16:46):
Uh, there is weekend services and weekend programming, but there's nothing for students with that. So we encourage them to go to go to service with their parents and we encourage them to serve, um, in one of the services. And so then therefore, uh, when we meet we're meeting at an off peak time pre COVID, we were pretty standard. We had Wednesday night for junior high students and Sunday night for high school students. And I think we squarely fell in the demographic of 74% of youth pastors saying they students are way too. Overscheduled way too busy. That's the problem. That's why I can't get anybody here. COVID came around and absolutely, you know, shut us down. We were in Chicago, we just opened up yesterday essentially. And so that's kind of a joke, but not really also. And so anyway, uh, 20, 20 summer we had been doing, um, a show like a YouTube show completely online and it was great and it was really fun, but the problem was, um, we were, we were talking strategy around our show and uh, I remember one of the, one of the youth pastors on our staff said, uh, she said, you know, the only place in the world right now.

Nick Clason (18:00):
So think this is like summer 20, 20. She said the only place in the world right now that students can't get in person is church. And so we did right there, a 180 pivot and instead of strategizing around how to make our show more, whatever, attractional more, whatever we, we said, how do we get students in an in-person moment? Now, keep in mind, this is 20, 20 summer. I've said all this a million times. I know, but I'm just trying to give you the context of it. Because at that point in time, our church multi-site megachurch in Chicagoland area. Sure. We were in the south suburb, so sure. We're about an hour away from the city, all the PR all the, um, I dunno, social media that would come along with us, not like not meeting or meeting, like there's gonna be a lot of negativity if we did.

Nick Clason (18:51):
And so we were still kind of in that world. And so our, our main church, like big church adult church, like they were still not meeting weekly. And so we created, uh, host home based small groups at that time, the state of Illinois was in, I believe it was called phase three of reopening or something like that, three or four. And, um, they, we were the guideline quote unquote was, uh, cuz you know, everything was very quote unquote, but anyway, the guideline was 50 people or less in a gathering, but there was very real chance that we were about to slide back into the, the other phase. So we were in phase three down to phase two or whatever that was, it might have been phase four down to phase three. Doesn't really matter because none of it makes sense and hopefully we never talk about it again.

Nick Clason (19:39):
But um, the, the more strict phase was 10, 10 students or more not students, sorry, people. This is for the state of Illinois. So we're like if we build small groups, um, and roster get rosters up to about 15 cap, it there knowing that typically 50 to 75% of students, uh, attend weekly. So, you know, if you have 15 on a roster, you're probably seeing seven to, to nine of them every week. And so then therefore we are within the window. Even if we get shut down even further, we can still continue to do this. And so we rolled out, um, a handful, like a bunch of digital groups that met on zoom. And then we also rolled out a ton of host homes. A and what we saw was our pre COVID attendance against enrollment jumped from like 32%. So again, this, that model was Wednesday night come, I'm gonna swallow a goldfish.

Nick Clason (20:40):
And then after that, you're gonna get in your small group with your leaders who love you and care about you. And every time a new student shows up a new kid gets dumped onto their roster. And so by the time that the school year comes to an end, that small group, leader's holding a roster of 35 students. And if I were to grab that roster and I say, Hey, who is that kid? And point to a name? There's a chance that they may have no idea cuz that kid may have come a week, that they weren't there and then they never came back. And so they've never actually met this kid, but this kid's sitting on their roster. And as far as like pipelines go and as far as like, uh, pastoral care goes, our strategy built around that is that the small group leader cares for that student.

Nick Clason (21:18):
But the reality is like that small group leader doesn't even know that student's name. And so that was that 32% of attendance. Sure. There may be 35 kids, but the average attendance against the enrollment of the overall small group was 32% pre COVID. We saw that attendance jump right out of the gate after COVID from 32% up to like 76%. And so what we saw was we saw this statistic bear itself out where gen Z's saying, this is what I want. Like I wanna be somewhere where I'm known and even in the face of COVID, I mean, dude, we were doing like full mask. Like you have to wear one, we were enforcing it. Like it was not an optimal way to gather together, but, but students were flocking. And in a lot of ways, I think, you know, the, the juxtaposition or the comparison of the fact that in COVID they're completely locked down and isolated to now we're actually offering some semblance of community and connection.

Nick Clason (22:13):
Um, obviously didn't hurt us, right? If you starve them of something, then eventually they're gonna go, absence makes the heart grow fonder, but that's what we saw. And so that was something we stumbled upon in COVID cuz we were like, oh dang look at this. And so then we just continued to run that model. And, and to this day our student ministry is still built on that. Um, I, this last, uh, spring, I had 15 small groups. I had one online group. I had four groups that met on campus. I had 10 groups that met in homes. And then of those ten four, no, I'm sorry. Five met on another night of the week. And so I had a Thursday group, I had four Sunday groups and then I had 10 Wednesday groups. And so back to the statistic about student pastors saying the biggest challenge to their student ministry is scheduling and parents not really agreeing with that.

Nick Clason (23:10):
Um, I think the fact that what, what we've been able to kind of stumble on as a student ministry is, uh, this, this variety of options as it comes to meeting, we've put so much pressure on the meeting, but what, what did Paul say? Right? I mean, I don't know that he was talking to youth pastors, but he could have been, we says don't esteem one day better than the other, but that's how we treat it with scheduling. Like, well for me to preach and for me to do all these things, like I need to get all the students together on a stage and a Wednesday night and get up in front of 'em and tell 'em about Jesus and like, yeah, that, that is the case in the eighties. But, but now for if you want to communicate as a student pastor, if you wanna communicate as a, as a communicator, you don't need a stage and a microphone to do that.

Nick Clason (23:57):
In fact, you can run this model. Like we're talking about where we have decentralized groups that meet in variety of locations all across the city on variety of nights in a, in a variety of locations, in a variety of environments. And if you record something via video, that same message can be disseminated out to all 15, all 25, all it's an infinitely scalable model. And that's the other piece too. You don't need facility. You don't need more chairs to accommodate more students. What you need is just one more, two more, three more willing host homes. And what I always tell people is now if you have wifi in a couch, you can experience what our church has to offer in student ministry. You no longer have to rely on your schedule to be free. And for your night to, to not have, you know, extracurricular activities and for your parents to drive you from wherever they, they have to drive from to get you to the campus.

Nick Clason (24:56):
And I get it like every context is different. You know, I, like I said, we're in the suburbs of Chicago, we're a big church. And so therefore we have a pretty wide reach. So sometimes we'll reach people from as far as 30, 45, even an hour away on the weekends. Um, and so those people's kids, um, that want to come back to youth group, they then have to drive 30, 45 an hour back into, you know, where our church is so that they can get to student ministry and to, to experience it. But now they can pick something that's maybe 30 minutes from the church in a host home that is, uh, geographically located 30 minutes from the campus. And so then that way you can also begin building things around region. You could even begin building things around school because how much more realistic is it for students to be in small group with other kids that are in their school, as opposed to just kids who say that they go to the same church and they see each other once a week.

Nick Clason (25:58):
And so you're like, wow, wow. Do you, when do you ever stand in front of the students? When do you, when do you ever get to know them? And that is, that has been the tough thing. Um, you've probably heard me say it, but my first day was the first day of COVID. So my first day was the, the initial and original production of our show and our show, what it did was it just, it operated as the anchor, the springboard for all of our small groups. It shifted from something that we did in COVID as a, um, youth, youth ministry program replacement to then more, a, um, discussion starter for small groups. And so it's, it's gone on this gigantic evolution now over the last two plus years, but what we're realizing the win is the win is what happens in the rooms. The win is what's happening between the students, between them and their leaders.

Nick Clason (26:47):
And really what we're just aiming to provide is good, consistent Bible teaching. Um, and we're doing that primarily and mostly through video, we are sitting down, we're recording ourselves, teaching we're recording ourselves, um, you know, presenting, uh, thought from the Bible and then the groups have what they need to, uh, to, to discuss it. And so what I wanna actually do real fast, I just wanna pull up, um, like, Hey, here's what we're doing this, uh, this fall. And so now two and a half years later, our most recent iteration of small groups, um, and, and what we're doing in each of the rooms with each of the themes. And so, um, what we do is we do like a campus night launch. Um, and then after that they have 10 weeks of small groups and that's where this, I think the biggest piece in this is the, uh, ability to vary up the, the, the days and the weeks and the nights of meeting.

Nick Clason (27:53):
And so I, uh, at my campus, I'm able to offer Sunday night meetings, Wednesday night meetings, Thursday night meetings. And that's really, I think like the, where the rubber meets the road on, on everything that makes it really helpful and beneficial. So, um, in addition to like providing teaching, we try to provide like a theme or some sort of activity for every group to do. And so this is where hybrid can really, really come into play. So the first night of small group, we're just doing sweet or sour and what our like video segment is gonna be is we're just gonna say, Hey, listen, like one great practice to do is you're getting to know each other. And as you're getting to get in the rhythm of small group messages, talk about the sweetest part of your week and the most sour part of your week.

Nick Clason (28:38):
And maybe to start that week, we're gonna just talk about, Hey, this was the sweetest part of my summer, and this was the most sour part of my summer. Um, then the week after that, we're gonna play a little game called yay or nay. And our thought behind that is we're going to do, um, like eight or 10 things that we just say like, Hey, um, cookies. And then let the, the students hold up a little paddle that says, yay, like a green sign or flip it over to a red sign that says, nay. And then we're gonna say you have 30 seconds to decide answer, and then defend your answer. And so we're hoping it kind of creates a little bit of banter between them and the students. And what we'll do is we'll just have like a 32nd timer. And then when that's over a little ding and they'll move on the next one.

Nick Clason (29:21):
And so it goes from cookies to pineapple and pizza, yay, or nay boom, 30 seconds. And then a little countdown video thing. Week three is gonna be board game nights, pretty self explanatory, bring a board game, play it together. Week number four is gonna be a service project. And what we're actually doing is we are, um, doing operation Christmas child. So we are gonna give all of our groups like 10 shoe boxes, and we're gonna challenge them to fill 10. And we're gonna do a competition to see who can fill the most amount of shoe boxes. And so then we're going to let them literally just physically do a packing party in their small groups, wherever they meet on campus in host homes. And then if they're online, we'll figure so up for that. Um, we're gonna then do, after that, we're gonna do an escape room and that's gonna operate as like an invite night.

Nick Clason (30:05):
And so we're gonna give 'em a puzzle, um, and some things and some codes to try and figure out, and we're gonna let them work on that together and hopefully bring a friend to it. And then we're gonna use like, uh, our YouTube channel or whatever with just, uh, countdown and maybe some ominous music. And so they have to get this puzzle solved within 45 minutes. And while the clock is going, there'll be little hints. And, um, voiceover things kind of popped in there by me or one of our other team members to just encourage them as they go the next week is gonna be karaoke night. So we're just gonna pull together some, some songs and into our YouTube playlist and they can just sing some karaoke together, have fun as a small group the next week is around Halloween time. So that's gonna be, uh, some Halloween house parties.

Nick Clason (30:50):
We're gonna give them, uh, an option of a couple of things that they can do, but really that's just, Hey, throw a party, get some candy, you know, do Halloween stuff. Um, then the week after that we're gonna play, would you rather, it's gonna feel very much like yay or nay instead of yay or nay like iPhones and pineapple and pizza. Now it's gonna be like, would you rather it's like, would you rather, uh, this is my favorite, would you rather question, would you rather eat ice cream flavored poop or poop flavored ice cream? Yeah, let me know, let me know the comments. We wanna know hybrid ministry.xyz or on Twitter at hybrid ministry. Come find us and let us know which of your would you rather it would be, uh, then we're gonna play fall feud, fall family feud. We're gonna, uh, send out a, a text.

Nick Clason (31:32):
Some of our students gather some survey data on some fall or like autumn related questions and then get that same data and then let them play based on their answers that they gave. And then finally, the last week of small group is, uh, show and tell donut edition, bring your favorite donut and bring a second one to share with someone else. And that's just an excuse to have a giant donut party as a celebration of the last week of small groups, then that leads us right up to Thanksgiving in the scope of our calendar. We'll come back for a couple weeks after Thanksgiving, do a couple Christmas related events and it'll feel very Christmas party esque, and then we break for Christmas. And so that's kind of how we use this idea of decentralized, um, host home model, small groups. And that's how we use technology to create for our students a hybrid experience.

Nick Clason (32:25):
And so I'm still the youth pastor. I still preach and teach, but I do view video. Um, and my talking head or my teaching content experiences get distributed to 15 groups at my campus, probably another 15 groups at our other couple campuses. And so that helps, that helps me be in 30 something places at any given time throughout the week. And so that's, that's one of the ways that we're utilizing and using hybrid ministry and hopefully doing something that is gen Z centric and gen Z forward thinking because the game back to the whole thing, they don't know, they don't care how much we know until they know how much we care. And that's what we're attempting to do is we're attempting to give them a safe place, the lead small principle, and it comes all the way back from Jesus of Nazareth who ultimately said to us, Hey, this is the great commission.

Nick Clason (33:27):
Go make disciples of all nations, teaching them everything. I've commanded. You baptizing them name the father, son, holy spirit. And he promises us as presence. I'll be with you even always to the very end of the age. That's what the church is built on church. Isn't built on a show church isn't built on a Sunday morning experience. Church is built on the people of God coming together, Hebrews 10, 24 and 25, continuing to, to meet together, to encourage one another, to spur one another on, do not give up meeting together. The writer of Hebrew says that is the, that's the core, the core tenant of the church. And for a lot of years, the only way to do that was a once a week gathering on Sundays in between farming. But we don't live in that, that agricultural world anymore. We're in a digital age. And so our students they're digital.

Nick Clason (34:22):
They, they, they think digital first. And so before, you know, it generation Z is gonna make up the majority of the attenders in your church, but you're already probably feeling some of the effects of it. And if you're not a youth pastor, like I am, it may not feel as, as imminent. Um, but they are on their way and they are on the horizon. And I know for me, they are the primary students that I am tasked with reaching right now. And so I don't have a choice if you're a pastor of older adults and millennials and gen Xers, then you may feel like this is a little further off for you and you might be right. Um, but the reality is that the oldest generation Z, they are starting to graduate from college and they're looking to enter the church. And they're saying some of these same things, probably around the same percentage that they prefer small gatherings over big parties.

Nick Clason (35:20):
So how can you use hybrid versions of ministry to reach these people and to even disciple them and even reinforce and galvanize the community around them? Well, that's it guys, that's it for the solo pod, uh, make sure you reach out to Matt, let him know that you are happy for him, that you're excited for him that he's gonna have a baby. Um, I'm gonna text him right now and figure out if they had the baby or not. They were in the hospital last night, so we'll have to see, but anyway, Hey, check us out. Online hybrid ministry dot X, Y, Z, we're on Twitter at hybrid ministry. If you find this helpful a rating or a review would be incredibly generous and incredibly helpful to us, it helps us rank higher in the podcast standings. And we have show notes. I don't know if you know this, but you can go to our, uh, hybrid ministry.xyz website. And we do an offer you a full transcript of everything that we say. And then anything that we talk about, uh, we will link to that in our show notes. So you can have access to some of those downloads for free, just go grab 'em. Um, but give us a shout. Give us a rating. Give us a review. Love to get to know you guys a little bit more. Appreciate you being a part of this journey with us. And until next time, we'll see you.

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TIMECODES

00:00-1:29 - Intro and Welcome
1:29-6:28 - Rest & Boundaries with Digital Ministry
6:28-11:10 - Hack 1 - Find a Hobby
11:10-18:00 - Hack 2 - Turn your phone to mute
18:00-23:22 - Hack 3 - Avoid Social Media
23:23-28:26 - Hack 4 - Get up Early and Read your Bible
28:26-33:10 - Hack 5 - Take care of yourself physically
33:10-37:21 - Hack 6 - Use all of your vacation
37:21-38:57 - Stat Correction - Take your TikTok Watermark off of all your Instagram Reel posts
38:55-39:12 - Outro

TRANSCRIPT

Nick Clason (00:01):
Well, hello everybody. And welcome to another edition of the hybrid ministry podcast. I am your host, Nick Clason alongside my amazing friend. And co-host Matt Johnson, Matt, how are we doing this morning,

Matt Johnson (00:18):
Nick? I am doing great. I, uh, woke up with for a nice little run, go the sunrise. It was, uh, just a really refreshing morning, able to pray a little bit. It was a great way to start the day. So,

Nick Clason (00:31):
So when you run, are you a podcast guy? Are you a music guy or are you a nothing guy so that you can have your, your prayer moments?

Matt Johnson (00:41):
Oh, good question. Um, so normally I'm a podcast guy, but right now I'm going through an audio book about how to raise great daughters, cuz I'm about to have a daughter and I'm freaking out a little bit um, but you got

Nick Clason (00:56):
The first little bit, all they do is poop, man.

Matt Johnson (00:58):
Yeah. So you know of watching all the newborn videos and stuff, but I think that was why I went for that run, but I usually pause it at some point and just, you know, do some prayer. Um, but I'm not a psychopath like Joe Rogan where I just listen to nothing, my entire run like a crazy person. I don't understand that.

Nick Clason (01:15):
I didn't know that about him, but yeah, that's psychotic,

Matt Johnson (01:17):
he, uh, I remember podcasts forever ago where he was talking about that. He's like, if you're listening to something during you're run, you're not running right. Or something along those lines. And ever since then, I was like, this man is a crazy man. So,

Nick Clason (01:32):
Well, that's actually a good kind of segueing tool I wanna talk about today. Um, I, this one, this one feels a little bit of like a deviation. I feel like from what our normal kind of topics are, but I wanted talk about rest and boundaries. Um, love it as it pertains to working in a church as it pertains to being the social media person. And so, you know, I thought, I thought we could just kind of have a conversation around the importance of that, um, rest, uh, and how we restore ourselves. Uh, because from my vantage point, if you're listening to this podcast, the odds are you are the social media person at your church, or at least you're interested in it, some degree in fashion and people like that are typically the most technologically savvy in their church. That means that they're, um, young or whatever, for whatever reason you've been pegged that person.

Nick Clason (02:26):
Uh, and so that means that you are the person on social media maybe personally. So how do you create good boundaries between, um, your work life, which is gonna be about what you're posting and what you're trying to do for your church, uh, digitally in a hybrid sort of way, and then how you personally restore and how you personally, uh, rest and reflect. And so even, you know, you saying you're out on a run and, uh, just using that as a time to kind of pray and process. I'm wondering if that's one of yours, but I'm not gonna give, give anything away. So mm-hmm, what, like before we dive into like tips and hacks, like what's been your observation or your experience with this sort of thing, as it relates to people working in churches or working in ministry context.

Matt Johnson (03:09):
Um, the biggest thing I have noticed personally, of people working in the ministry, especially, uh, the church ministry world is burnout is exceptionally high. Um, and I think it has a lot large part to do with, uh, you know, usually people are wearing multiple and multiple of hats. Um, mm-hmm, for some, probably 90% of people listen, this podcast are, you know, running social media, being a youth pastor and, uh, in charge of some other ministry at their church. So, um, and it's just, cuz we know, um, the margin of like resources at a church is just little thinner when it comes to stuff, cuz you're relying on not revenue streams necessarily. So, um, I think it's easy to get burned out and it's easy to kind of lose focus of what's actually important and not take care of ourselves. And I've also noticed usually people go on a sabbatical way too late mm-hmm um, usually we go, okay, it's time for you to do a sabbatical. And you know that person's been there 20 years on burnout. They come back from the sabbatical and they still have it fully recovered usually. So, um, yeah, we just gotta figure out how do we get you through those points where you don't have vacation where you're in the middle of everything else going on, especially like Christmas and Easter seasons is a great example.

Nick Clason (04:33):
Yeah. Yeah. It's , it's the whole sabbatical. Thing's funny. I've been in, in ministry now 11 and a half, almost 12 years. Most churches give sabbatical around year seven, but it's, it's a sabbatical from like your church. So seven years at your church and I've never, I've never made it that long. So yeah.

Matt Johnson (04:52):
exactly.

Nick Clason (04:53):
Don't know what that's they don't know what that feels like.

Matt Johnson (04:55):
I know that's more, that's the typical person. So they go from one church, you know, they get pretty to that edge of burnout and they go to the next church, they get refreshed. Cause you get that energy being somewhere new, but then like that mean it's the same workload sometimes more. Um, I've never really been anywhere. That's been a less workload than the last place for a long period of time. So

Nick Clason (05:17):
Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting. And, and in my case almost most, most jobs I've taken, I've not had any sort of like weaker whatever in between. Like I remember, uh, couple, a couple of job transitions ago. My last week, um, at one church was running, executing everything for summer camp. We like did our own summer camp. So like I was teaching, speaking, all those things, um, drove home, packed my office. And then that was like on Saturday morning, the next day I went to my new church and then that Monday morning I boarded the bus to go to their summer camp. So it was like two back to back weeks of summer camp. And so it wasn't, it wasn't, you know, from one job with a nice little break and a nice little pause, it was literally like boom done. Here we go onto the next one.

Nick Clason (06:01):
And so, yep. And I think that some of that mean like there's just a cultural expectation about, um, work and hustle and all those types of things and, and you know, we can get into like, uh, generations and the different, the different approaches to work and attitudes toward work and all those types of things. And I, there's definitely a difference. Um, and we don't wanna be lazy, you know, but we also wanna be smart, you know, with what we're doing in our workloads and stuff like that. So, uh, I had each of us kind of come up with three tips or tricks, uh, as it pertains to, um, rest boundaries. And so Matt, do you wanna go first and share your first tip, your first trick, your first hack, um, on having good rhythms of rest?

Matt Johnson (06:44):
Yeah, absolutely. Um, my first tip hack, um, is really find that hobby that, um, helps you escape. Um, like that is your hobby that you can, um, when you get home or on the weekend that you can go do that is nothing to do with work. like it can't have anything to do with work. And I have two, uh, one is fly fishing and I love fly fishing, especially, um, what the aspect is. I can go to the middle of nowhere and I have no cell service . And

Nick Clason (07:22):
How often are you fly fishing in Chicago?

Matt Johnson (07:24):
Uh, not a lot here, but when I was in Colorado, I was going about every other weekend and my stepdad dad, and I would go up to the mountains, find some river and I'd have go to canyons and I'd have no cell service. So even if the of the world went on fire, I'd have no idea. Um, which was awesome because like I could really unplug. And then the second thing for me personally is, uh, gaming video games. Um, you need, and that's, uh, you know, I worked in the game industry as an intern for a long time and um, they've always been a huge part of my life. So, uh, I, uh, able to escape different worlds, um, and really just like live out whatever I'm doing, but that's actually become a time where I bond with all my friends from like high school and stuff. So those are two great hobbies, both, uh, very different one. I literally unplug from the world and the other one you're virtually unplugging. So both, uh, the work good for me mentally.

Nick Clason (08:26):
Yeah. So like, okay, let, let me, uh, push, push a little bit on this. So you are not in Colorado anymore. You are in Chicago, you don't like fly fishing is not a super accessible thing here. So how have you personally kind of dealt with that as like, do you feel like, uh, the, the geography of your, your current occupation is keeping you from being able to access one of your hobbies and how, how are you like dealing with that navigating through that?

Matt Johnson (08:55):
Yeah, that's a, I mean, that's a great question. It has definitely changed the way I do fly fish. So, um, I mean there's a fly fishing community out here, but it's very different than the Colorado community they're fly fishing and ponds and like lakes and stuff.

Nick Clason (09:09):
Yeah. Which

Matt Johnson (09:10):
I mean is totally fine, but I, when I fly fish, I like to stand in the river with my waiters on, let the water rush over me and just be, really be in nature. So I've done that aspect where, okay, I'm gonna, you know, um, go lake fly fishing or whatever. Um, there are a couple streams, you know, you just gotta drive to them. So it definitely though has hindered my, uh, my escapism through fly fishing. So I've had to be a little more creative with how I escape into nature now. And that's been more intentional going to just nature preserves and, you know, um, uh, like just trying my best to escape into the wilderness, how I can here. But as you know, there's not tons of nature around the , so

Nick Clason (10:00):
yeah,

Matt Johnson (10:01):
Yeah. It is definitely a challenge here.

Nick Clason (10:04):
Yeah, no, it's good. I, I think like for me, uh, this is one of things I'm honestly really, really terrible at is having my own hobbies because I, I like my hobby. I do feel like in a lot of ways is being a youth pastor. And so, um, it's funny cuz like, uh, guy used to work for, uh, I would text him like an idea about youth mysteries, like randomly late at night and he was like stop working. And I said, I, I, this is, this is what's fun for me, you know? Uh, but the, to your point, the problem is like if I only ever do that only ever think about that, I don't have anything that's legitimately just for me, you know? Yep. Um, and even like things like I'll go on runs and I'll listen to podcasts and they're typically ministry related podcasts, you know, I have some, I have some that are more hobby related like sports or whatever. Um, and those typically those typically fly to the top of my playlist queue anyway. Uh, so that, that maybe is the way I do it, but yeah, I'm not, I'm not very good at this. So thanks. Thank you for challenging me already this

Matt Johnson (11:10):
Morning. It's my

Nick Clason (11:11):
Goal, man. So all right. Uh, okay, so here's a hack I have. Okay. Um, and I don't know if this is a good strategy or not, especially for like a communications person in your church. Um, it's gonna, it's gonna maybe feel like, uh, not the, maybe the best strategy. Uh, but my phone personally, dude, like it never rings. Yep. Um, I literally have it on mute all the time. in fact I was it yesterday, maybe it was two days ago. I literally lost my phone for like two hours at work. And um, I, I, I retraced all my steps. I couldn't find it. And do you know what everyone's solution was? They said, oh, do you want me to call you which like I have an office phone. Like I would've done this myself. If I thought that this was an option, but I knew it wasn't because even if they call me, it was just going to be silent and, and people are like, oh, but if you're near it, you'll hear it buzz.

Nick Clason (12:13):
No, like not on vibrate, like all the way silent. Like it never, I don't have any notifications come through ever. Um, and so like the only thing that's even like remotely, uh, close to my phone ringing, quote unquote, is, uh, I have a watch. And so like my, my wife, her texts and phone calls, those are the two things that like come through to my watch. Otherwise everything else is essentially muted. And I don't have like email push notifications come through to my phone. Um, the only thing that does come through to my phone or like text messages or whatever. And, and that's part of my, like part of my strategy, because as I've stepped into this place, which has got just more people and more demands and all those types of things, uh, more and more people are looking and kind of vying for your time.

Nick Clason (13:01):
And so instead of the way I, the hack, I guess, and this for me is instead of letting my phone dictate to me when I'm supposed to respond, I, I choose those and I build pockets of those into my schedule, you know? So like it's not that I don't check my email. I check it every single day, multiple times a day, but I don't do it when it dings and comes through to me. Um, and that's also just like for me, a focus, uh, a focus hack as well, because if I'm writing something or doing something and I get a ding or a notification, uh there's there's studies that say like the brain is unable to multitask and is unable to, to go over to one thing and come back to another thing with the same capacity it takes, it takes a gr I don't remember what the exact like numbers are, but it takes a ridiculous amount of time for your brain to shut that back off and go back into, you know, that other thing.

Nick Clason (13:56):
So, uh, I just, I grab my phone and if there's stuff on there that I need to respond to, I do it, but I do so kind of on my own time. So I, I really, I treat text a lot, like how I treat email. Um, because again, they're not, they're not driving me and speaking of driving, uh, sometimes that drives people insane. Um, and so I, you know, I just like, I'm up front with them a little bit and I say, Hey, sorry. I was, you know, doing whatever, cuz it's, it's not that I'm often just being lazy and ignoring it. It's just that for me to be able to focus, I need to not be being distracted. Mm-hmm so,

Matt Johnson (14:31):
Yep. No, I love that. I, uh, I'm the same way I keep my phone on mute too. Um, except for my wife and, uh, setting that up has been a game changer for me personally. And I'm sorry if I miss your calls or it takes me a little bit to get back to you, but if it's super important, give me a call. Like you, it goes to my watch and then I go check my phone and then, um, see what's going on. So

Nick Clason (14:55):
Yeah. Well, and I mean, yesterday I sent you like four messages, um, and they, like, none of them were urgent and they were all just sort of like, um, observations or like funny things or like, oh, did you see this? And you just, you responded to all of them, like in one text, you know? Yep. And I didn't need it. I, I didn't need you to respond. So I was totally fine. Like with the pace with which you replied, I knew eventually you'd get to it. And so I wasn't, you know, I wasn't like worried about it. And so that contrary to popular belief, uh, that is okay. Yes,

Matt Johnson (15:27):
Definitely. And we need to be okay with that as a culture and a society. Um, and we also need to realize that 99% of things that we have think is urgent are not urgent now. Um, that's something I've run into a lot. Uh we're like, we get this out right now. This is super important. And I'm like, well, yeah, let's get it out right now. But the difference between now and, you know, an hour from now, there's no difference actually in communication or, uh, the stress level of that. So, and that's gonna, we have to get out of the tyranny of the urgent. So mm-hmm

Nick Clason (16:02):
yeah. So, so like, let's get super, super practical on this for just two seconds. Cuz so like my wife and I, for whatever reason, the last two churches I've worked at have been like, they've been like the absolute iron curtain for uh, text messages. And so like my phone doesn't really work super well in, in the churches I've worked in. And so my wife and I have just defaulted to using, um, like WhatsApp as a text message service. And so I use that regularly every single day, but really only with my wife. And so that's how I have like custom notifications of hers that come through. But nobody else's. Um, how, how have you set it up where you get text messages alerted to you that are only from your wife and nobody else, like what's the setup for you on your

Matt Johnson (16:48):
Like phone? Yeah. I just I've set her up on iPhone. Like you can start setting people up and you do not disturb as like, um, your favorites or whatever. And that's who she is. I have her and my mom and that's it. And I only have MYM on just cuz you know, whatever craziness could happen back home, I want to be available. But um, and then my wife obviously, cause like I said, she's pregnant, so I gotta be ready at the drop of a whim to make sure, you know, whatever happens happens. So it's been a yeah, it's my wife and obviously she's, you know yeah. My favorite

Nick Clason (17:20):
Even if, even if she's not pregnant. Yeah, yeah. It's it's your wife. So I love that. Cool. Yeah. So like you said, I think that's a really good, I think, I think, uh, we're we are in a little bit of a cultural moment of shifting more to this because I mean asked, think about the other day I grabbed my phone and I was like, dang, there's so many just notifications on here. And like that's what apps have have learned like, oh push notifications are the way to get people's attention. Yeah. But if, you know, I like when I grab my mom's phone, for example, she has 47,000 unread notifications. I'm like, what is the point of this? Like your brain can't physically process all this. So I dunno. Anyway. All right. Hack number two for you.

Matt Johnson (18:01):
Um, so even I'm gonna piggyback off a little bit of your phone stuff. So mine is also with phone and this is really to do with mental health and this is gonna probably sound crazy coming from the, a marketing communications person is I try to avoid social media as much as possible in my free time. Um, yeah. So I try to keep up with social media trends. So maybe at the most I'm on, you know, I'll look at social media an hour at the most, but I try driving a hit an hour, you know, I try to do like maybe 30 minutes, I've deleted most of the apps off my phone. So I actually have to be do my due diligence, like make it part of my work rhythms. Like I'm taking social for work. I'm not checking social to pass time. Um, and I was just realizing that I was just becoming so negative about so many different things, um, that I shouldn't be negative or mad about. Like my sports teams being mad about whatever's going on with them. um, mad about some

Nick Clason (18:57):
Sports are so dumb, man. They get me in such a bad news.

Matt Johnson (19:00):
Exactly. That's like, why am I mad about this? Like I used to love this, uh that's cuz I wasn't on Twitter worried about what other people were saying or worried about what trade was happening or on Reddit, seeing what all the sports, all the people in my fandom, my, um, think, um, seemed with like video games, the bashing of like video games or even the church, like, you know, you would go on Twitter and I can see how people, you know, make, say, say something about the church and it's really easy to get down about that. So I just started like going, you know, this isn't worth it for me mentally. Um, and uh, I'm not gonna waste my time with it. So I deleted a bunch of the apps and I've made it okay, I'm gonna check social for work purposes or um, check it up on family.

Matt Johnson (19:44):
But I, most of my family doesn't even post anymore. We have our group chats and that's kind of, what's become the thing for us to like keep in touch with each other. So if I have a photo of ultrasound or whatever, I don't need to post that on Instagram right away. I just send it over to my group, my family group chat, and I hear all their thoughts and there's only ones I even care about. So, um, yeah, it's definitely weird cuz like the last couple episodes we've talked about how important it is for you to be on social. Um, but yeah, I think it is important to be on social, but you also need to have that balance where social media is not taking over your life. And if you're starting to see it affect it mentally affect you. Like you, you should do something about that. Mm-hmm and you and I were talking yesterday about all the studies that have come out about the effects of social media on the brain, watch the social dilemma on Netflix. Like we don't know, well, we're starting to see the ramifications of social media and we need to have clear boundaries with it. I think personally.

Nick Clason (20:42):
Yeah. I, you know, as a youth pastor we'll post a lot of stuff on social media or whatever, and then like I'll have a mom or dad or whoever a parent say, you know, Hey, our kids don't have social media and I will literally respond with that is great. And I fully support that decision. Exactly. Honestly, I do. Like if, if be, so I feel like being on social media is an opportunity to try and reach a certain demographic of kid. Who's probably not doing anything, um, useful or good with their time on social media and if they have poor boundaries and they're just on it all the time, like then I want us to, to be a part of their feed and part of their algorithm. And so that there is some, some Jesus in there. Right. But otherwise if a parent is parenting in that sort of way, like I support it fully.

Nick Clason (21:29):
And quite frankly, as a dad of a six and a half year old, like I can't imagine giving him social media here in more years or, or 10 or whatever, you know, whatever that's gonna be like. And so I, I think it's, yeah, it feels very like double edged sword. So it's, we're, we're producing things for social media. We're producing things for digital content, but we're not, um, necessarily personally engaging in those things. Mm-hmm , you know, um, ourselves and yeah, I, I agree with you. Like there's been times where, um, I, I feel very, uh, full of anxiety or I'm really like, I notice myself being really short, like with my kids, I have a really short, uh, like just patience level with them. And oftentimes that's a direct correlation to just the amount of time I'm spending on my phone or the amount of time that I'm, you know, worrying about whatever sort of thing I'm and that's, you know, especially in the last couple years, like, uh, at work and stuff, I'll people will talk to me about news, like news things. And I literally am like, oh wait, what's happening. Like I don't watch the news. Like it is not, is not good for my mental health. Just tell me what I need to know and what lit was actually affecting me and the rest. I'm gonna try to not think about cuz that's again, the, the, I think the brain was not meant to process the amount of information that we as Americans have access to on a daily basis basis.

Matt Johnson (22:55):
No, it definitely wasn't. I mean, you just look at the history of the human brain and you see like, this is the only time in culture where we've really ever had to deal with this. So, and why is anxiety, depression and everything so high right now? I mean, it's not all cause of social media, but definitely that's a contributing factor to it. So cause I felt it, you know, I feel it, I get more depressed and anxious like you were saying, so

Nick Clason (23:19):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, alright, sweet. So, um, alright. So my next one is, uh, it's gonna feel like a little bit of a, a Zig to the zag of this rest conversation uh, but I, uh, gosh, it's been about a year, year and a half or so. Um, but I have made, um, mornings, uh, getting up in the morning with coffee, going, uh, to read my Bible a priority and it's been a thing I've basically not missed for about a year. So I used to, you know, I have, I have young kids, uh, six and four. And so, um, you know, a year ago, year and a half ago when I started there five and three or two or whatever. And uh, I would used to just sleep in, um, until they came and woke me up, which so that there was no sleeping in all right.

Nick Clason (24:09):
But there was a, they were pretty, pretty good. Uh, we have this little like clock thing that turns green when they're allowed to get outta bed. And so that's set for seven. And so they're pretty good about following that. And so I would, I used to lay in bed and sometime after seven they'd come in with their little clock that was green and they'd say, Hey, our clock's green, you know, we get up and I would always feel like I was just running, be behind. Like I was, I'd always just felt like I, uh, was catching up to the rest of my day, the rest of my morning. And so kind of around that, whatever, whatever time, like a year ago or so I was like, I'm gonna get up at six every morning cuz I knew that they're probably gonna get up around seven.

Nick Clason (24:47):
And uh, the way I did it is we have like, uh, uh, Amazon Alexa app, uh, like all of our lights. Uh, so like I have my lights automatically turn on at six down in the dining room and every night before I go to bed, now I program coffee. And so as soon as I wake up, I literally smell coffee and see the lights. Um, those things just helped me get out of bed. the idea of setting an alarm and then getting up and then going down and doing all that stuff. Mm-hmm um, it, it, I just would, at that time I would just mentally cash it in and say whatever I'm asleep in, I'll do it again. I'll do it tomorrow. And so like those few hacks have helped me get up. Um, and then what I do is I get up, I drink coffee and I spend time reading my Bible and that has been one of the most centering and grounding things for me.

Nick Clason (25:37):
And, uh, I was doing it by myself and then a couple months later my wife actually joined me. Um, and so it's been a thing that we'll we'll do together. We'll just both get up. Coffee's going, we each have a cup. We're sitting, uh, at the dining room table, she's reading her Bible, I'm reading my Bible. Um, and we are just connecting ourselves, centering ourselves to our source. Mm-hmm and it's less sleep. Yes, because I'm waking up an hour early. So on the like immediate need of rest, it may feel like it's, it's less right. But as a discipline, now that's woven in to what I do. Um, other things have adjusted to accommodate this because I know how important it is. And so for example, we don't stay up as late because we know we're gonna get up at six, uh, to read our Bible and to drink coffee.

Nick Clason (26:26):
And so maybe we're not watching that next episode when we end one on Netflix instead we'll turn the TV off and you say, all right, what? It's probably time to go to bed, you know, so we can get up. But that has been an absolute game changer for me, uh, just in, in my personal rhythms. And um, if I start my day, that way with a little bit of it's a slower pace, uh, without the kids, um, waking me up outta bed, uh, then, then when they do come outta their rooms and everything like that, I feel like I've done what I need to do. Um, and I'm able to, uh, go after whatever I need to go after that day. Um, as it pertains to work, rest, social media, all those types of things. Like all those things can happen now because my time with Jesus has already taken place. Mm-hmm so that's been a game changer for me develop

Matt Johnson (27:14):
That. I, uh, yep. I do. I do the same thing. So, uh, wake up early and I love reading my Bible in the morning, um, before or after my workout. So

Nick Clason (27:26):
Yeah. Yeah, it's good. And like I said, uh, you know, I, I, I knew myself and so know yourself. Like I knew I needed some prompting to get out bed. And so that's why I learned how to use the programmer on my coffee maker. Um, and I, I recently started roasting my own coffee. And so I, my, the coffee I make at my house is actually my, my, my favorite coffee, you know, there's a really good roaster down the street that a lot of people here like, and I like it too, but I, I think my coffee's better. I think your coffee's better. What

Matt Johnson (27:58):
I'm literally

Nick Clason (28:00):
Well, what I'm literally drinking right now, I roasted at like five 30 last night in my garage. So like, it can't, it cannot get fresh. Exactly. You know? And so there's really, you know, that's maybe another podcast topic, all do

Matt Johnson (28:13):
A coffee roasting podcast.

Nick Clason (28:15):
I love that job. Also people out there it's really easy and it's actually quite cost effective. Very, so, uh, there you go. All right, Matt, your last one, what do you got? So

Matt Johnson (28:26):
My next, my last one, um, this is something that you, I think everyone should be doing is we gotta take care of ourselves physically in some aspect. Um, yeah.

Nick Clason (28:36):
Yeah.

Matt Johnson (28:37):
I, uh, I'm, I love running. Running's a great time for me to, uh, you know, really process and rest and get my endorphins up and think, and also take care of my heart and my body. And it's also, I've noticed as I've worked in ministry, like every year I gain a little bit more weight because, you know, they just get a little crazy. And also as you know, these churches and ministries, they love the things that are bad for you like donuts and, uh, um, as much junk food as they can get chips, mountain do, especially being a youth pastor, all the stuff you deal with, it's really easy to kind of lose sight of your, uh, physical health. But, uh, honestly my favorite thing to do is to swim. Um, I'm a big swimmer. I was a swim in my, with, uh, in high school, very competitively went to, uh, state and stuff.

Matt Johnson (29:27):
So, um, met my wife's swimming. It's like a really big thing in our lives. And, uh, what I love about swimming is waking up at, you know, um, usually very early, like 5:00 AM. going to the pool and it's just, it's like dark out and I'm just in the water, me and my thoughts. Um, mm-hmm and so it's kind of a time of meditation. I'm, you know, weightless, I'm able to really work out, control your breathing cause you have to in swimming, it's this very, um, cathartic thing for me that I've, uh, really grown to love. And it is honestly probably the hardest thing to wake up to. Cause there's nothing like waking up and being cold outside and going. I'm gonna go get in a 72 degree pool and uh, swim for an hour. And, uh, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna be honest. It's been a little bit harder to keep my swimming hobby here in Chicago, because there's just not a lot of pools here, really,

Nick Clason (30:28):
Dude, I know, trust me. So,

Matt Johnson (30:30):
And I'm coming from a world, like when I lived in Colorado where every recreation center had a pool, cuz the pool swimming was just a huge, um, pastime there. So it's been very hard to keep that up here. That's why running has become more of my zeitgeist, but like swimming is that thing where, cuz you can't really have headphones swimming. You can't, you, I mean you have to be in your thoughts, which, um, it's just a weird time, but it's also a time that I've talked to God more than any time in my life is when I swim. So

Nick Clason (31:01):
yeah, it's good. Yeah. Since, you know, like when we moved here, it was middle of pandemic and so like, uh, we canceled our gym membership in Ohio from when we moved and I didn't pick one back up when I got here, obviously cuz there's a pandemic going on and gyms weren't even a thing. And so, uh, I took up running just to get out of the house and I never thought I'd be a runner, but you know, um, I am now and I look forward to it and I enjoy it. And in a lot of the same ways, it's kind of that just cathartic experience for me. Um, a great place to be alone with my thoughts or even just on a podcast and back to your hobby point. Like there are, I listen to a lot of ministry podcasts and so those are in there for sure.

Nick Clason (31:48):
But uh, the ones I most look forward to our, the entertainment ones, ones about sports, basketball, fantasy football, all those types of things. And so that's my, that's my attempt to disconnect, you know, a little bit. And so I agree like man exercise that there's such a, I don't know what I, I think like the landscape is shifting a little bit, like I think millennials and gen Z are, are pushing these things. But I think that there's some, there's been some notions of older generations that are like, oh, I don't have time to do that. Like I just, I need to focus on my work and um, that's just, that's super,

Matt Johnson (32:20):
Very, somewhat healthy.

Nick Clason (32:24):
And, and you like in all of this, right, this entire conversation is woven into like you, you need to be the best version of you to be the most effective at leading some of stuff. And if you're not, you're you're not gonna be very effective. Mm-hmm so find whatever that thing is. And you know, like you, my wife will say like, you know, she's like, she'll struggle to like find time to do it. And I'm like, you, you can't afford not to a little bit, you know, like you gotta, you gotta figure it out. You gotta make it a priority. And so it's, you know, cuz we got kids and so someone's gotta stay with them. And so, you know, I'm like, Hey, like I know this is important for you to do so let me, uh, you know, let's, let's figure it out so that you can have what you need. I can have what I need, all that type of stuff.

Matt Johnson (33:04):
So exactly.

Nick Clason (33:05):
Yeah. All right. Love it. Last one for me then is, uh, this one's work related. Um, but use all of your vacation time that your work gives you.

Nick Clason (33:17):
Like don't leave any on the table. I, there are people who like don't use it all and I, what are you doing that is li PTO stands for paid time off your, your job is telling you that we will pay you. If you take this time off, you have earned this. This is a part of our agreement that we've made with you. You can work here and we will still allow you your paycheck and your salary. If you, uh, take this amount of time off mm-hmm so don't leave any PTO on the table. Like that is a bad, bad strategy. , uh, use it all. And you know, there like our, our, our work lets you like roll some like a, a week's a week's worth into the next year. Um, I never have that to do. Like I literally never have any to roll.

Nick Clason (34:12):
I burn all of it. It is gone. I use it early. I use it often. Like it is, uh, it's it's one of my strategies to staying, uh, you know it, my, I don't know. It's just, for me, life is more than just a job and life is more than just work. And so, uh, use all of your PTO. That is a great way to stay fresh, stay healthy, do the things that are important to you, do the things that matter to you. And even if you're, you know, if you're listening to this and you're in ministry, odds are, you probably are thinking like, okay, but I don't have a lot of money to go on vacation. Then don't go on vacation, just stay home and do fun stuff with your family and your kids. But like, don't like, just because you can't go anywhere else doesn't mean that you should then default into going to work. Like the place will not burn down if you're not there. Yeah. So

Matt Johnson (35:02):
Exactly. And um, my favorite thing is it's kind of a badge of honor with the, uh, lot of older gen the older generation that I know is like, yeah, I have this much PTO. I haven't used my old vice president on marketing. My old job used to have every year he would roll over like 120 hours of PTO. And finally I got to the point where I would tell him, like, you need to take PTO, don't check on me. Like just go on vacation. He was his vacation. So, um, he started doing that and he would take two weeks off a year to just do some carpentry stuff, cuz that was his favorite hobby and it was super healthy for him. So, um, but he hadn't done that, you know, for like 15 years at the company. So take your PTO. I totally agree.

Nick Clason (35:43):
You look, you literally, I mean there are literal studies out there I should have, I should have had 'em to cite 'em a little bit more, but you are not good if you don't have margin baked into your life, like you, your body and your brain need those things to make you more creative. Yep. And it's, you know, in some of those spaces and in some of those margins where your brain will be able to connect some of those dots, you can't just, you can't just hard charge and be eight hours or 12 hours a day with, with no space, you know? Yeah. Some of the, I, I, I dunno if you've ever heard of this map, but uh, I think like Winston Churchill, um, he would take like a nap every single day and he is like one of the most, you know, successful, uh, leaders that we've known in our world.

Nick Clason (36:28):
And he did that because he knew it was good for his brain. Good for that rhythm of rest. And it made him a better leader. Exactly. So, yep. Yeah. So cool. All right guys. Well that is it for today. Uh, just some hacks, some thoughts. Um, again, like we said, your ministry will not be successful if you are not personally healthy a hundred percent. So be personally healthy, put the guardrails, the things that you need into place, um, figure out your rhythms, your hobbies, and the things that, um, work for you and are important to you. And, uh, don't, don't burn out because your church and the world and, uh, people, they, they need what you have to offer and so take care of yourself and uh, those other things will, uh, will be there when you come back. I promise any last parting thoughts.

Matt Johnson (37:21):
I have one thing that I wanted to talk about real quick, about last week's episode that you and I talked about as a correction, uh, we had talked about the TikTok water mark, and I wanted to correct everyone, myself, especially cause you and I talked. And it's something that changed very quickly is if you had that TikTok water, mark Instagram is going to suppress you now. So mm-hmm I wanted to just tell everyone don't do that. We'll have more tips in an upcoming episode about that. but just wanted to get on the record as quick as possible. Hey, we messed up there. Um, pull that. Don't put the water mark on Instagram, so

Nick Clason (38:00):
Yep. That's my fucked box. Yeah. Well, and, and if you listen closely, I was trying to disagree with Matt amicably, uh, live last

Matt Johnson (38:07):
Week. So, and we get into like, I read that article forever ago and I sent it to you and then I changed the article and I hadn't read it and I didn't do my due diligence there. So a lot of good lessons in it, but yep.

Nick Clason (38:19):
Well, and that just goes to show just how quick everything changes. So what, what works today at, you know, quote, unquote time of this recording? Like may not even still be treated yeah. Watch

Matt Johnson (38:28):
Next week the watermark is boosted. So let's just say, who knows?

Nick Clason (38:34):
Yeah. That's why all this is very in lifetime, very important. Like this is, you know, trends now, but especially with social media, I mean, they're always changing their algorithms and uh, you're, you're on borrowed space with them. So you have to play a little bit by their rules. Exactly.

Matt Johnson (38:48):
Yep. So I just wanted to give that correction real quick before we think goodbye to the audience. So.

Nick Clason (38:54):
Cool. All right guys. Appreciate it. Hey, follow us on Twitter. http://www.twitter.com/hybridministry we are online, at http://www.hybridministry.xyz and, uh, give us a subscribe, maybe a rating. That'd be incredible. I share this with a friend and we will talk to you guys next day.

Follow along on twitter - twitter.com/hybridministry

Or find full transcripts and show notes at http://www.hybridministry.xyz

TIMECODES
00:00-2:15 Is Digital Discipleship Possible?
2:15-3:47 Aren't people tired of online?
3:47-5:05 Meet Gen Z
5:05-7:55 Are ministry and discipleship the same thing?
7:55-12:08 What does Hybrid Discipleship look like?
12:08-13:45 How can Hybrid not feel like COVID 2.0?
13:45-18:35 How to utilize online content to facilitate spiritual growth?
18:35-25:46 How to repurpose content you already have
25:46-28:20 The danger of ignoring Gen Z and Digital Discipleship
28:20-31:17 How to use your staff to create content
31:18-35:17 What does Gen Z want?
35:17-36:14 Outro

TRANSCRIPT
Nick Clason (00:00):
Well, that's why I think it's a definition thing a little bit, right? Yeah. Cause like I said, I do think there's a life on life component of the social. Yeah. So, um, I think it's that's I think it's hybrid, so all right. Let's uh, let's get started. So we don't say all the good stuff before we start recording. Great. Well, everyone, welcome to another episode of hybrid ministry podcast today. I am your host, Nick Clason alongside my friend, Matt Johnson. Good morning, Matt. How you doing mark morning? I'm doing great. How are you, Nick? Good, good. Hey, I wanted to talk today. Um, I just honestly have a conversation wondering is digital discipleship even possible. Um, and so I think that there's gonna be a lot of definitions that we need to kind of clarify, um, in order to have our conversation, but to sort of lay the foundation of this, Matt, there's a statistic out there that you continue to share with me that continues to blow my mind. So would you tell the people about gen Z and their preference of online discipleship?

Matthew Johnson (01:06):
Yeah. So something that we need to be very cognitive of is 51% of gen Z. Wanna do ministry online only

Nick Clason (01:18):
Crazy.

Matthew Johnson (01:20):
So that is the major that is more than half only wanna do online.

Nick Clason (01:27):
Yeah. Which is insane. What, and is there more, when you say online ministry, are there more clarifiers to that? Like what does that mean? What does that look like? Or is that just like a, Hey, would you prefer ministry online or in person? And they just clicked online?

Matthew Johnson (01:43):
Uh, so from my understanding is they were asked you want, would you rather be engaged with ministry only online, partially online or never online and 51% said only online that's and then I don't know, the, the other stat a hundred percent off my top of the head, but it was the other vast majority was hybrid and the in person only was definitely the lowest out of the three.

Nick Clason (02:15):
Yeah. Yeah. Dang. Okay. So here we are as pastors or ministry leaders or whatever, we are trying to navigate this world, this post COVID world, where we feel as though most people were kind of done and kind of tired with the online, the streaming and all that type of stuff. And so we're attempting to return. Um, and then we hear a stat like that, which it feels like it goes against our gut. Yeah. Right. Because we feel like everyone wants to be back. At least that's sort of the notion or everyone's tired of zoom or everyone's tired of streaming church services. So does that just mean that when we say everyone, we're not talking about generation Z in that place, or we're only speaking anecdotally to those that maybe only do wanna return, but we're not having conversations with people that are fine with a online, only version of ministry. Um, like what do you think's what do you think's going on with that? Cause I feel like there's a chance that people hear that and they, they don't believe it or they don't sense that to be true in their context. Um, and that just, it feels like it's an immediate like, well that that's outta touch. That's not real, but this is a, this, this is a recent study, right. This came out a couple months ago. It's not, it's not old. Yeah.

Matthew Johnson (03:34):
This is the most recent metrics. So, um, when people tell me, I don't believe that that's not real, they're going off of their gut and it's cuz we like we've talked about in previous episodes, the, the church has to evolve. Um, and that is a change is terrifying. So when I tell any church leader, Hey, this is what we're seeing. This is what we're hearing. And I need to remind everyone that's listening to this podcast, gen Z is getting older. Gen Z is soon gonna be the adults in your church before you know it. Well,

Nick Clason (04:08):
The, the, the oldest gen Z is like 20, 21, 22 years old now,

Matthew Johnson (04:14):
Right? Yes. So that's what, like, they're just getting older now. So sooner or later they're gonna be the adult con the young adult congregation and your church is gen Z. And like, we need to start reaching them. like,

Nick Clason (04:28):
Yeah. Well, cuz I remember, gosh, like two, three years ago I felt like in this, the podcast space, people were just starting to talk about reaching millennials. Mm-hmm like millennial, like I'm a millennial and I'm in my mid thirties almost. Yep. So like that, that train of like thinking of millennial is a young adult. Like they're not like millennials are, are a, the largest generation and the primary base of our workforce these days. Yeah. Now, you know like, so if, if you're just starting to think about millennials, it's time to just honestly shift that thinking to generation Z. Yep. Cause generation Z and millennials could not be more vastly D

Matthew Johnson (05:05):
Exactly.

Nick Clason (05:07):
So let's, let's talk about, um, what would you say Matt? Let's, let's just kind of create a working definition for the base of this conversation. Um, so 51% of generations you prefers online, only ministry is ministry and discipleship. Are they the same thing? Do you think?

Matthew Johnson (05:29):
I guess it depends on what your definition of discipleship is. Um yeah. Or your definition of ministry so, uh, I think discipleship of ministry could be the same thing, but I think in most churches there have definitely different definitions and pathways.

Nick Clason (05:47):
Yeah. And the goal of every church in some form or function is to fulfill the great commission of Jesus. I hope so. Which is to go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of son, holy spirit, and then teaching them to obey everything that I've commanded you. Yep. And then Jesus says, I'll be with you always, even to the very end of the age. And so discipleship the, the most basic definition. And I actually like kind of pairing evangelism with it, uh, because I think it takes the edge off of evangelism. So it goes from just hop. Someone says yes, to helping someone take a step closer to Jesus. Yep. Regardless of where they are preconversion post. But I think that helping someone take a step towards Jesus is discipleship, which is what evangelism is, except for. You're trying to have someone do that who maybe wouldn't identify themselves as a follower of Jesus just yet.

Nick Clason (06:43):
So how do you help someone in their discipleship journey to take a step closer to Jesus and can that be done digitally? Yeah. Or what are the ways in which we can Wade into that digitally or more better, right. Yeah. Hybrid. Uh, cuz I do think that if I look back, uh, if I look back on my journey as a follower of Christ, um, almost every pivotal moment, um, that has some sort of, uh, significant growth moment for me. I can tie a face to those time periods. Yeah. Right. Like my high school years, I think about my youth pastor, my college years, I think about my then girlfriend now wife, um, after that different mentors people have I've um, you know, connected with in ministry or other like youth pastors that I've networked with. Yep. And so there's been a very vital and important, um, you know, connection that takes place a human to connection. Uh, and so that feels like it completely opposes the ability for this to be done online. Yeah. So like let's just, let's chat through that. Like how could that be done in a hybrid sort of sense? Yeah. Love it.

Nick Clason (08:05):
So, um, with that in mind, like as I say that, what, what comes to your mind? What are your thoughts? What are your as a marketer? What are your responses to the, to that, you know, maybe opposition that you can't do this discipleship online,

Matthew Johnson (08:18):
Um, I'd say you probably have not strategized or thought about it enough. Um, and the reason I say that is because look at the success of you version, um, just look at the success of life church in General's online platform. so you're telling me that people that ha go to life church online, you know, every week super invested are not being discipled at all. And I'd say that's probably not accurate cuz I know people that have, you know, been saved through life churches, online platform and have done everything fully online with them. Mm-hmm I've also seen people as I worked at, when I worked at dare share and we developed our life in six words that be discipled completely remotely, cuz we had to do it in COVID from, I don't believe in Christ at all to, I believe in Christ to I'm making disciples all on a virtual platform, you just have to be intentional with it. You have to have the right resources, the right content, the right platforms. And uh, I'm not, and I'm not saying get rid of the, you know, the person to person connection at all. I'm just saying you don't necessarily have to do that in person at all.

Nick Clason (09:30):
Yeah. Well, and you can still have a connection with a person without it actually being in person. Exactly. It's gonna, it like to your point, it's gonna take some strategy and it's gonna take some intentionality, but one of the craziest things about me and my story is I started at the church that you and I both work at the first day of C. And so, uh, I, I went into the office for five hours and then I got sent home indefinitely and we live in Chicago. And so COVID is still happening here. Yep. unlike other parts of the country that pretty much blew it off altogether. Right. And so for the first several months I actually joined a small group, um, and met friends that I'm still friends with to this day. Yeah. But I didn't see them in person for almost three or four months.

Nick Clason (10:16):
Yep. And uh, it's actually funny because the leader of that, like I didn't lead it. I just joined a group cuz you know, Amanda, my wife and I like, we're new to this church and we're like, we just need to meet some people. This is the only way to do it right now. And the leader of that group was like, before I met you, I would've said it's impossible to make a relationship with someone virtually. Yeah. But because I only met you in COVID I realized how possible it was like we had, uh, we would do these like zoom groups and they, they were hosted by the church. Um, and so like we were in this, we would all log into the same zoom and then we'd break out into zoom, breakout rooms. Yeah. And then, uh, the, the church sanctioned time would end and our leader would send a second link and we would all jump on our own zoom call after like the church time slot had ended.

Nick Clason (11:08):
Yeah. And I remember one night we were on that zoom until like 11 or 1130 at night. Um, like, and it was supposed to be over at like eight. And so we were, we were all hanging out like just a cuz it's COVID and we were all bored and there's nothing else to do and we all missed humans. Yeah. Right. Um, but that, that's an example. And I think, I think that picture right there is how that could be the case. However, I think because of COVID or the, the triggering effect of even thinking about that again, that's what people are done with. Yep. Like I don't wanna do that again. Yeah. Right. And so even as I propose that, or even give that as an example, I can imagine if you're listening to this on a run or mowing the lawn or whatever, you're like, heck no, dude, I am done with that. That is over like I am out of that world. Yeah. Uh, so how does that exist now in 2022 or beyond? Yeah, because we don't, we don't wanna enter back into that weird world.

Matthew Johnson (12:09):
Yeah. So I think a great, okay. So a great example of how this works and how you can build relationships virtually is video games. So Nick, you know, I'm a pretty avid obvious video game player, the amount of people I know, and that I've met personally that have very deep friendships and they've only met each other on my call of duty so, yeah. Um, and I think it's the intentionality of just keeping those conversations going and you're doing a hobby together that you love and, um, uh, it's also entertaining and it gives you something to look forward to and, you know, it's all the psychological stuff also behind, um, you know, building relationships. So you can definitely make discipleship work virtually or hyperly if you're intentional about it. Um, and it doesn't happen well

Nick Clason (13:02):
In your point. Right. But your point right there was about relationships. So you, you and I just both proved that you can build a relationship. Yep. Digitally. Right. So then the question is, uh, if, if discipleship is super tied to a relationship, if, if that has to be a distinctive of discipleship, then it, it can be done. It just has to be done with intentionality.

Matthew Johnson (13:30):
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Nick Clason (13:33):
Yeah. I cut you off. So I was gonna try and let you finish what you were saying. No, but I was trying to make the point that that was, that was, we both proved the relationship. So that's, if we're right again, like if we're saying discipleship has that relationship, then it's possible.

Matthew Johnson (13:45):
Exactly. And then on top of, okay. So if we define discipleship as, okay, I'm having a relationship with somebody and then I'm walking them through their relationship with Christ and I'm teaching them how to share Christ and live Christlike content is usually a huge key part, part of discipleship as you. And I know, I mean the amount of times I've been given a book by a mentor or, you know, mm-hmm, , uh, Hey, check out this ebook or this resource or this white page or whatever it is, this blog about whatever I'm struggling with or whatever I'm like going through in my walk of life. Um, we already know it was all done virtually , so you can get a Kindle book, you can get an electronic book, an ebook, as I said earlier, white pages are all digital now, um, you know, you can send someone a blog through an email or text message. So there's no reason why in my professional opinion that you cannot do discipleship totally virtually, but also in a hybrid approach.

Nick Clason (14:49):
Well, and to your point, right. Content in the great commission, Jesus said, baptizing them, all these things. And they said teaching them to obey everything and teaching, I, I think in my youth pastor opinion, I think sometimes we've made teaching the only component of discipleship and divorced that from some of the relational stuff. But if there's a relation, an established relationship that's already taking place, then that teaching or that mentorship or that whatever that content is, uh, that all can exist digitally. Yep. And I think that the, the unique advantage that we have as pastors and or church leaders is that we're actually already in the content making business. Yeah. You, you said a stat yesterday to me in the office about content marketing. What,

Matthew Johnson (15:48):
What was that? Yeah, so content marketing costs 62% less than traditional marketing. And it's,