web02.fireside.fm Fri, 01 May 2026 22:45:23 -0500 Fireside (https://fireside.fm) Hybrid Ministry - Episodes Tagged with β€œEngagement” https://www.hybridministry.xyz/tags/engagement Thu, 15 Jan 2026 05:00:00 -0600 Hybrid Ministry is complicated and hard. Or is it? How do pastors and youth pastors create a vibrant extension, not replacement, of what's already happening during their weekly church services? To cater in a digital ministry way to an online focused ministry audience. Reaching Millennials, Gen Z and even Gen Alpha is going to require us to rethink some of the ways we do church. Follow along on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@clasonnick en-us episodic Digital Discipleship made easy Nick Clason Hybrid Ministry is complicated and hard. Or is it? How do pastors and youth pastors create a vibrant extension, not replacement, of what's already happening during their weekly church services? To cater in a digital ministry way to an online focused ministry audience. Reaching Millennials, Gen Z and even Gen Alpha is going to require us to rethink some of the ways we do church. Follow along on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@clasonnick no Digital, Online Church, Hybrid Ministry, Church, Meta, Gen Z, Millennials, Digital Marketing, Church Marketing, Youth Ministry, Student Ministry, Nick Clason, Digital Ministry, Church Social Media, Youth Ministry Social Media, YouTube for Church, YouTube for Youth Ministry, TikTok for Churches, TikTok for Youth Ministry, Instagram for Churches, Instagram for Youth Ministry, Facebook for Church, Facebook for Youth Ministry, Cell Phone Usage at Church Nick Clason nickclason@hybridministry.xyz Episode 184: Amazing, On-Going, Youth Group Retreat Game Pt. 2 + Lock-in Survival Tips https://www.hybridministry.xyz/184 3dfbb3e2-687e-4c7f-b647-db8b6c316c51 Thu, 15 Jan 2026 05:00:00 -0600 Nick Clason 184 Amazing, On-Going, Youth Group Retreat Game Pt. 2 + Lock-in Survival Tips full Nick Clason In this episode I sit down and share the entire inspiration for this D-Now, Winter Retreat & Summer Camp on-going games with my friend, Andrew Jansen. Andrew is a 10+ year youth worker, and his assassin game sparked this entire podcast mini-series. He expains his creative (and super CHEAP) adaptation to this game. Plus! Andrew shared his lock-in survival guide for FREE! 28:30 no In this episode I sit down and share the entire inspiration for this D-Now, Winter Retreat & Summer Camp on-going games with my friend, Andrew Jansen. Andrew is a 10+ year youth worker, and his assassin game sparked this entire podcast mini-series. He expains his creative (and super CHEAP) adaptation to this game. Plus! Andrew shared his lock-in survival guide for FREE! Andrew's Lock-in Guide: https://www.patreon.com/posts/10-year-veterans-146449370?utmmedium=clipboardcopy&utmsource=copyLink&utmcampaign=postsharecreator&utmcontent=join_link SHOW NOTES Shownotes & Transcripts https://www.hybridministry.xyz/184 BECOME A HYBRID HERO https://www.patreon.com/hybridministry ❄️ WINTER SOCIAL MEDIA PACK https://www.patreon.com/posts/winter-seasonal-144943791?utmmedium=clipboardcopy&utmsource=copyLink&utmcampaign=postsharecreator&utmcontent=join_link πŸ‘‰ STAY CONNECTED WITH NICK YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@clasonnick Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hybridministry/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@clasonnick Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HybridMinistry Website: https://www.hybridministry.xyz -------------- πŸŽ‰ FREE STUFF πŸŽ‰ We have all kinds of FREE Things that you can use in your context! The best way to pay us back is a review or a YouTube Subscribe! https://www.linktr.ee/clasonnick -------------- πŸ› οΈTOOLS I USE THAT CAN HELP YOU! Some of the below links are affilate links in which we do recieve a small commission based on your purchase or use of products //VIDIQ https://vidiq.com/hybrid //BEST DYM RESOURCES https://www.patreon.com/posts/9-amazing-dym-142425755 //OPUS.PRO FOR AI SHORTS & REELS https://www.opus.pro/?via=a5d361 //YOUTUBE STARTER KIT FOR UNDER $100 https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/youtubestarterkit -------------- πŸ•°οΈTIMECODES 00:00 Assassin Game with Clothes Pins 03:41 Social Media While You’re Busy 05:02 Assassin Game Rules 06:20 Ways to Play the Game 09:31 Pro-Tips 13:42 No Prize? No Problem - Do this! 14:30 Pro-Tip #2 18:52 How are you going to play, moving forward? 19:37 Could you play this game at summer camp? 21:50 Two Final Assassin Rules to Follow 23:47 FREE Lock-in Survival Guide -------------- TRANSCRIPT Nick Clason (00:01.378) Well, what's up everybody? I'm here with Andrew. Andrew, how you doing this morning, bro? Andrew Jansen (00:07.725) doing good. God is good. It's a good morning. Getting into my emails and excited to talk about the game thing that you want to talk to me about. Nick Clason (00:17.39) Yeah. I'm glad, like, I hope that talking about the game thing is more exciting than your emails. That's, that's, that's my hope for all of this. Um, but yeah. So I, you know, I, you and I, we've known each other for a couple of years now, mostly through zoom, but we've hung out two times in person. And one of the times that we hung out in person, I was at your church. Um, Andrew Jansen (00:26.057) I hope so too. Yeah. Definitely. Nick Clason (00:44.974) Helping you out with like a like a retreat conference. What would you call that thing? It's a conference, right? Andrew Jansen (00:51.297) Yeah, it's like a student conference between like 250, 500 people give or take which year you're at the conference. Yeah. Nick Clason (00:58.21) Yeah, that's a big, that's a big range. But one of the things that you guys did that I loved was you had this game happening in the background of the conference, I guess. It wasn't like a stage game, though you had stage games. It wasn't like a big thing that in the main general session that took a lot of time, if any time. Like aside from maybe just like explaining the rules. it was like, it was this like assassin type game. tell me, like just explain to the people. Cause what I loved about it was that it was an activity to do in the margins and ongoingly throughout the weekend that kind of kept you, kept students engaged and having something, you know, to kind of like focus on and do like above and beyond just like all the normal conference attend attending like stuff. So. Andrew Jansen (01:33.39) Yes. Nick Clason (01:55.478) Where did this idea come from? How did it go? Like, let's talk about it. Andrew Jansen (01:56.152) Yes. Andrew Jansen (02:00.139) Yes, so like all great ideas, I stole it from, I believe we played this game in my youth ministry growing up. So my youth pastor, question mark, shout out Jake Lindhart. He's a great youth pastor. But I'm sure he stole that from somebody as well before him, but it's the original game was played with rubber bands and you would like, you would like snap a rubber band on. So I grew up in the nineties. Nick Clason (02:18.446) Yeah Nick Clason (02:24.568) Okay. Andrew Jansen (02:29.701) early 2000s youth group era where we did all kinds of things that would get you fired nowadays, but where you would literally snap people with rubber bands and if you snapped them while they weren't looking, then they were assassinated and they would give you their name that they had been given at the start of the game. Nick Clason (02:34.67) Okay. Nick Clason (02:43.04) Yeah. Nick Clason (02:50.432) Was their name like their name or a name of like another person? Andrew Jansen (02:54.145) It's the name. So let me let's explain the game real quick. And then we can kind of go into the like a little bit more of like what we change rules, that kind of stuff. So the game is essentially everybody signs up and then you take everybody and write their name down and then you assign their name to somebody besides them. It's easier to make a list and kind of just go like numbered. Nick Clason (02:57.805) Yeah. Nick Clason (03:05.272) Yeah. Nick Clason (03:20.024) Okay. Andrew Jansen (03:23.693) And like, so number one would have name number two. And then if you have 50 students, number 50 would have number one. And the goal is to assassinate that person and a bit like you win if you get your own name. So that's the, like if you get handed your own name and you've been playing it for a while and it's not like the first person you kill and something that just means your youth pastor messed up and that's okay. Nick Clason (03:27.181) Yeah. Nick Clason (03:31.694) Okay. Nick Clason (03:39.426) Okay. Andrew Jansen (03:49.137) give grace. But if you get your own name at the end, then you are the assassin champion. And that's kind of the concept behind the game. Nick Clason (03:56.461) Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Gotcha. And so like I was saying, like I was watching kids at your conference, like running around, like, you know, hiding from each other. Like one kid came up to me and was like, can you go get that girl over there? Cause she like knows like I'm coming for her, you know? So was like sort of all sort of like strategy and like gamesmanship. So how did you adapt it then for, for this one? Andrew Jansen (04:25.688) for sure. Right. So I believe we did this a few years ago at the same conference with Nerf guns, but I had a whole bunch of like clothes pins at our church that we use for various things. feel like every time we need clothes pins, we just went and bought them until we had thousands of clothes pins. And I was like, we got to do something with these clothes pins. But it's funny when you act, when you're like, Hey, we talked about this assassin's game. Nick Clason (04:35.671) Okay. Nick Clason (04:47.822) hehe Andrew Jansen (04:58.366) It did not go the way that I was like hoping it would go or the way that I was planning it to go. I think they had fun. They had a blast. Like kids were running around like crazy, screaming, like getting really into it. We had to tell a couple of kids to calm down, which that's, I'd rather tell kids calm down than be like, Hey, come on, like get into it. Nick Clason (05:00.046) I'm Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Nick Clason (05:16.386) Right, you should, yeah, you should care about this more, yeah. Andrew Jansen (05:20.33) Right. They were very into it. I kind of talked about it with some of the volunteer board members and kind of figured out what is something that can happen. I think of it as like a meta event. It's always just constantly in motion. Obviously, you don't want to have it happening during praise and worship time or while you're in small groups or the speaker is speaking. all that in between transition, walking around time. Nick Clason (05:29.358) me. Nick Clason (05:38.647) Yeah. Nick Clason (05:42.167) Right. Andrew Jansen (05:49.625) we gave students clothes pins and those clothes pins had the name of their that they wrote their name on the clothes pin and then we handed them their target clothes pin and that was the person that they were trying to go get so you had to clip on the clothes pin Nick Clason (06:03.63) Okay, so in theory, if every kid comes in, signs up, writes their name on a clothespin, then that's your pool of contestants. because one of the things you guys did was you didn't make this required for everyone. You're like, if you want to play, swing by the table and sign up. Andrew Jansen (06:09.666) Mm-hmm. Andrew Jansen (06:22.978) For sure. Cause I mean, if you have, if you make everybody do it, you're going to have like 10 people that are just like, I'm just going to throw away this clothes pin and then they're, they're out. They're not, you're like, Hey, I got you. Where's your clothes pin? And like, I threw it away. Cause I don't care about this at all. Cause I'm a punk eighth grade student or whatever. And like, so, so it's, we wanted to make it be just, if you're, if you're interested in playing this type of game, you know, go, go sign up. We, Nick Clason (06:37.438) Mm. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Andrew Jansen (06:53.572) started with them writing their own names. And then I think it turned into kids can't write at all. And like, we were like, who, what is this? What is your name? Like, it was like, my name's Steve. And I was like, that does not say Steve at all. And that is not cursive or that I don't know what font that is, but you need to practice writing. But we ended up making that list and then writing their names down. Nick Clason (06:56.832) Okay. Nick Clason (07:00.972) Yeah. What fart? geez. Andrew Jansen (07:21.472) And then we handed them out at lunch, I think. We made the order and we're like, OK, this student is getting this kid's name so that the list was in a circle, so to speak. Nick Clason (07:23.872) Okay, yeah. Nick Clason (07:34.038) Now, you need to like, there any, are there any like hacks that youth pastors need to think about with like assigning it or is it just like, just do it randomly and it's fine? Andrew Jansen (07:44.993) Yeah, I had it so that was the part that I think went that was the craziest because originally we were just write your name and on the pin and then take the neck though like the last person that wrote their name down take their clothes pin so they just were in order as they went but that got Completely they just started chucking them into a bucket and they were like I signed up and then ran away Nick Clason (08:02.498) Gotcha. Andrew Jansen (08:11.928) So I would say have that like it would be easiest to do. All right get in line Go to a sign-up station get signed up and do either alphabetical order or do the order in which you signed up is the order in which you You know like are trying to get the next person Nick Clason (08:31.981) Yeah. So is that, I mean, that's a pretty like administratively heavy task, right? So like if you're a youth pastor, you're running an event, you're running a retreat or a D now, like would you recommend having a really organized person facilitate some of that off to the side so that you're not having to get sucked down into the weeds on that? Andrew Jansen (08:51.21) Absolutely. Yeah. If you have an intern, definitely that's a great intern task is just sit there, get all the students signed up and write their names down on a clothes pin or how whatever assassin's weapon you're using. But we use like a Nerf gun, I think a few years ago, probably can't get away with rubber band anymore, but yeah. Nick Clason (09:06.936) Yeah. Okay. How did the Nerf gun work? Like how did that, like was it successful would you say? Or was clothespin like a better idea? what, cause I let one of the things, like in a couple of episodes I'm actually gonna talk to another guy and he created an AI like app for taking pictures, like an assassin picture game. So if like, if you can be confidently sure that everyone has a cell phone, that's a great opportunity, like a great way to do it. But. Andrew Jansen (09:34.754) Nice. Andrew Jansen (09:38.434) Yep. Yeah. Nick Clason (09:40.302) Like I like this one being analog, right? In some way, because if kids don't have phones or like whatever, they're able to still do it. How'd the Nerf gun thing like work? Like, was it confusing? Was it like, cause I would imagine if you're on the other side of the room, you get like hit by a Nerf dart. Like, do you know for sure who shot it? Like what if multiple people shot it? Like, you know what mean? Like that type of stuff. was it, was it, did it, yeah, how'd it go? Andrew Jansen (10:06.882) I think it went well. was, they did popsicle sticks and you had a popsicle stick with a person's name on it and you were collecting popsicle sticks. I thought it went well because if you're shooting the Nerf gun and you hit your target, you're gonna immediately go up and be like, hey, I hit you. Like that was my dart that hit you. If it's like crossfire or something like that, I mean, middle schoolers are gonna cheat for sure. Freshman boys. Nick Clason (10:10.721) Okay. Nick Clason (10:17.271) Yeah. Nick Clason (10:24.835) Yeah. Nick Clason (10:31.853) Yeah. Andrew Jansen (10:35.96) typically will be like, I've killed everybody in this room already. I'm like, no, you haven't. We haven't even started yet. that like, like, I'm like, nice try. But the, the, the nerf, I think it worked well because it, the first of all, the nerf gun was very low power. So you had to be, I think you had about five feet to, to like be able to like shoot it and, and hit them. And then, and it was also fun because Nick Clason (10:36.738) That's, yeah. Ha! Nick Clason (10:51.459) Yeah. There you go. Nick Clason (10:59.938) Right. Andrew Jansen (11:03.192) There was one this will haunt my dreams forever because I think it was like a junior high school girl was like carving numbers in her little plastic nerve gun with how many kids that she was like assassinating and she I think yeah, I was like Yeah, I was like Let me know when you're not in the same town that I'm in so that I can sleep well Yeah, it was terrifying but they they got into it which is they this seems to be some Nick Clason (11:08.514) Yeah. Nick Clason (11:15.55) my gosh. That is like what horror movies are made of, bro. Andrew Jansen (11:32.832) a type of game that it's a meta happening all throughout the conference, all throughout the event. And they really, really love trying to assassinate their friends. Nick Clason (11:38.925) Yeah. Nick Clason (11:44.77) Yeah, and if you don't have a budget for a prize for the winner, these types of events are a great way to pit churches or youth groups or small groups or color groups or however you want to break it up against each other. And you can just give 1,000 points to the winner, and 1,000 points is free for youth pastors. And then, yes. Yeah, dude. Andrew Jansen (12:03.565) Yes. Yep, I love points. have unlimited points in my budget. It's great. have trillions and trillions of points. Nick Clason (12:12.288) It's truly the only unlimited thing we as youth pastors have access to, you know, aside from maybe Bibles that were discarded or old couches. But other than that, points are for sure unlimited. So, all right. So is there anything else, any other like pro tips that you would have if someone's like, all right, this sounds like a cool idea. You know, just something to kind of like run on in the background of my D now or my summer camp, my retreat, like. Andrew Jansen (12:17.016) for sure. Nick Clason (12:40.556) You have any pro tips that you'd give a youth pastor so that doesn't flop and fail or like to maybe help them avoid middle schoolers trying to cheat or is that just an inevitability? Andrew Jansen (12:49.56) Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they will cheat for sure. But I would say that have your like sign up sheet, your sign up, like the starting of the Assassin's Game, have that organized and fleshed out before you start, because that's the hardest part of getting that train to leave the station is just getting every student signed up and then assigning who their target is in a way that allows it to go like. Nick Clason (12:53.666) Yeah. Nick Clason (13:09.902) Mm. Andrew Jansen (13:17.068) Number one has number two and then all the way through like number 50 has number one. Because if you get off in that process, then you're going to get like someone's going to go, I won because I got my own name. And then you're like, no, how do I fix this? got switched? What got swapped? What happened? Nick Clason (13:20.588) Yeah. Yeah. Nick Clason (13:35.358) Is there, so is there no mathematical way for them to get their own name until they win? Like is that how it should work? I'm like, I'm not a statistician, so I'm not over here able to like think of this on the fly. So, okay, so there's no possible way for them, like if they get their own name and they didn't win, it's messed up somehow, yeah. Yeah, cause I did remember seeing the guy behind the desk, cause it wasn't you. Andrew Jansen (13:42.508) That's how it should work. If you number them... Andrew Jansen (13:53.997) Something, yeah, something messed up. Yep. So I would say do that either. Nick Clason (14:02.434) But the guy behind the desk, he was like, way to just throw him under the bus. I was trying not to do that. But he was like, like I just saw him like an internal like moment of panic when like some people were like giving him things. He's like, that's, that might not be right. Like that right there was like, this game seems amazing and intricate, but like that moment, like every youth pastor has been there where they have an amazing game. And then there's that moment of panic where they're like thinking, crap, I, something isn't working right. Andrew Jansen (14:02.614) Yeah, it was Dawson. Yeah, he's a great guy. Andrew Jansen (14:15.735) Yes. Andrew Jansen (14:31.998) Mm-hmm. for sure. No, loved Dawson was a youth leader of mine and he you know He's a youth pastor at the church that I was at. So no, I love Dawson. He did a great job It's my fault. I didn't lead him well in executing those things. So it's all it's all on me No, it was it definitely there's a moment of panic when a group of students are like, hey I got like my friend like my friend and I got each other's names and we're not Nick Clason (14:46.798) There you go. Andrew Jansen (15:00.396) the first and last person. And that was all the, that was all the clothes pins were jumbled up in a bin and we did not have a good like start and then like sign up the way, like the best, not, not that it wasn't good. We just didn't have the best version of that that we could have, could have rolled out. And then I would say that one of the reasons why it didn't go exactly the way we had hoped was we had flag football. Nick Clason (15:02.349) Yeah. Nick Clason (15:12.556) Right. Nick Clason (15:16.93) Right, Yeah. Andrew Jansen (15:29.944) and open gym at another location during that free time where they could play assassins. So a quarter of the conference was over at the gyms and everybody that was playing assassins that didn't want to go play flag football or open gym was at our church. And they, if you got a name of somebody that was over there, you couldn't like, was like, well, it was raining. Nick Clason (15:33.41) Mm. Yeah. Nick Clason (15:56.558) Mmm. Andrew Jansen (15:58.999) They, if you weren't over there, yeah, it was a little bit too far to walk, especially in the rain. So it, that, was one of the things of making sure you have an extended free time where you're not like off on different locations or different parts of town or anything like that, where you have like, if you're at a camp where everybody's on campgrounds, it's a good game to play throughout the week or like we're doing a lock-in for New Year's Eve. Nick Clason (16:00.104) It was like too far to walk. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Nick Clason (16:16.408) Yeah. Nick Clason (16:22.112) Yeah. Andrew Jansen (16:27.03) And we're doing this, we're actually doing, I'm doing the Assassin's Game with the students at the lock-in when we're gonna try to revamp and correct some of the things that we noticed that did not quite go as planned. Nick Clason (16:33.902) There you go. Nick Clason (16:39.926) Okay, so that's a great, that's a great, so like the things you're talking about is like making sure you have it like the sign up and the assignments of who gets who a little more fleshed out, right? Like that was one of the things you talked about. Are you doing it with clothes pins or like how are you playing at your lock-in? Andrew Jansen (16:48.641) Mm-hmm. Andrew Jansen (16:58.616) Yeah, I still have, we have 900 clothes pins instead of a thousand. we're still looking to get rid of some of those clothes pins. But I think it'll work out well because it's gonna be a smaller group. We're not gonna have 250 students that are running around like crazy. So we're gonna have them sign up. I have a list of all of- Nick Clason (17:18.456) Yeah. Andrew Jansen (17:27.008) I know these students because they're my students. So I'm going to have like some options and a set chunk of time where they can really, you know, get after it and assassinate their friends with clothespins. Nick Clason (17:30.402) That helps, yeah. Nick Clason (17:35.884) Yeah. Yeah. Now, is this a game that you could envision happening? Like if someone wanted to do this over like the course of like a week long summer camp, let's say like a three, four, five day summer camp. Can it last that long? Do you think or does it need to be like a quicker spur? Andrew Jansen (17:51.33) Mm-hmm. Andrew Jansen (17:59.001) I think the more time you have, the better it can go because then you can be a little bit more methodical. People can get into it. I've seen people army crawl through like cafeteria chairs to like get there like is here's another hack for the game. Make sure you let them know what parts of the body are allowed to get assassinated or not because obviously we don't want Nick Clason (18:02.008) Okay. Nick Clason (18:10.13) Hehe. Nick Clason (18:14.059) Mm-hmm. Nick Clason (18:28.238) Probably good, yeah. Andrew Jansen (18:29.036) to, yeah, we don't want to have a horrible situation with some clothes pins or whatever you're using. Definitely the rubber band game needed that. I saw kids like army crawling through cafeteria chairs to like slowly go get their friends like shirt sleeve because it was throughout the week instead of just that like five or six hours over the weekend of the conference where they could play. So I think it lasts for sure. At least two days. Nick Clason (18:36.895) Yeah. Nick Clason (18:47.032) Yeah. Nick Clason (18:51.629) Yeah. Nick Clason (18:55.894) Yeah. So then on like a game, so then on like a gameplay side, like if you, like if you assassinate someone, you get their clothes pin. So you're only at any given moment. You're only carrying around one, right? Like you don't, you don't walk around with like a big handful of clothes pins at any moment. So that way, cause you, bring it back to like home base or whatever to let someone know like this person's out. Andrew Jansen (19:15.734) No. Yep. Andrew Jansen (19:22.978) Yeah, and that lets the person that's doing the sign up and has that list allows them to kind of see like, okay, this person's making their way through all of these people. And you kind of can tell like, okay, and you know, if somebody loses a pin, you have a better chance of going, that was this person. They lost their pin at this point and you can just write the next person's name and give them that pin. Nick Clason (19:32.226) Yeah. Nick Clason (19:47.052) Yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay, nice. All right, anything else that someone who's trying to do this needs to think through or that you learned seeing it be done? Andrew Jansen (20:01.362) For sure. I would say the two quick things that we didn't really touch on is clear boundaries, like out of bounds, when they can and cannot assassinate somebody is really important. Obviously, hearing about Jesus and praising Jesus through worship music takes precedent over the praising Jesus through fun. I mean, it's still praising Jesus. It's just a different Nick Clason (20:09.132) Mm. Nick Clason (20:23.266) The game, yeah. Yeah. Andrew Jansen (20:28.268) way that we're doing that and we want to have Jesus be the main thing. So making sure that they're not assassinating each other during small group time, praise and worship time, or any of the main session type times is important. So let them know like, hey, we're only doing this during free time, lunchtime, game time, whatever. And have like, I would say have like lights out if you're at a camp for a week. Like, hey, once it's lights out, would. Nick Clason (20:38.231) Yeah. Andrew Jansen (20:56.972) That's just, you're asking for trouble. Like, Hey, why were you in the girls dorm? I was trying to get her like, no, like that's we're not playing at night time. So I would say that would be one. And then making sure like the, out of bounds, like, Hey, we're not, you're not going to be off camp property. You're not going to be off church property. No, you cannot get on the roof. No, you cannot crawl through the drainage pipes and like all of those usual things. Like what can I like, Nick Clason (20:57.09) Yeah. Nick Clason (21:02.917) Yeah Andrew Jansen (21:24.16) latch on underneath the church van and then crawl onto the windshield and like I'm like no what you're gonna die that thing that's don't do that. They get really into it so making sure that you you kind of have those you know outlines of like what the boundaries are for both like physical where they can play the game and then also the times in which they play the game. Nick Clason (21:29.102) Yeah. Nick Clason (21:44.364) Right. Yeah, that's good. It's Nice. And you mentioned that you're going to play this at your lock-in, most any now, how many years have you been youth ministry again, Andrew? So most youth pastors who have at least hit the 10 year mark in youth ministry are team anti lock-in, but for some incredibly weird reason, your team pro lock-in. Andrew Jansen (21:52.769) Yes. Andrew Jansen (21:59.513) Ten years. Andrew Jansen (22:13.342) I am pro. Pro lock-in. Yes. Nick Clason (22:13.492) And so, yeah. So as I said at the beginning, you have a completely free lock-in guide planning sheet down below. If any one of you is insane enough to do a lock-in like Andrew, this can help you. I will not be a customer of this sheet, but I will let other people know that it exists. Andrew Jansen (22:23.17) Yes. Andrew Jansen (22:38.434) For sure. Yeah. And it, it's just everything that I've learned over the years. I love lock-ins. we did lock-ins at, in our youth group growing up, think almost every year are I'm from Wichita, Kansas. And we had a big like Wichita area citywide lock-in with hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of students that would, sign up for all of this crazy stuff. So, this is just all the stuff that I've learned kind of, some hacks, both attending a lock-in, putting on a lock-in. Nick Clason (22:57.901) Yeah. Andrew Jansen (23:08.188) And I've added some things to it over the years. So yeah, if anybody has any questions, they can email me or reach out to you and you can give them my info or whatever. But it's really helpful. Nick Clason (23:11.948) Yeah. Nick Clason (23:22.156) Yeah. Yeah, for sure. All right, man. Well, yeah, dude, go for it. Give a give a little bit. Give a give like a sneak peek. Andrew Jansen (23:26.232) Do you want me to talk about it or is that good? For sure. A sneak peek. one of the... Nick Clason (23:35.47) But don't give it all away, because we still want them to go get it, you know what I mean? So like, make it a big old teaser, like cliffhanger, of ultimate proportions. Andrew Jansen (23:39.764) Absolutely. For sure. So first of all, shout out to my wife for making it look super amazing and incredible because honestly, yeah, she's amazing. I wish that I would hire her tomorrow if that were possible. Nick Clason (23:49.112) Dude, your wife is, this shirt right here, your wife designed. Yeah. Yeah, she... Yeah, but she works for you for free, so why would you do that? Andrew Jansen (24:02.082) That's true. It's not for free. do. I have to like rubber feet and like get her food and take, make sure she's locked in on all that stuff. speaking of lock-ins, the, the number one hack from my lock-in survival guide, and this is an exhaustive or, perfect in any way, there's definitely stuff that can be added to it. But I would say that at the end of the night, I always start with, or end with a movie after cleanup. Nick Clason (24:06.286) there you go. Yeah. Nick Clason (24:30.582) Yeah. Yeah. Andrew Jansen (24:31.692) Because once you clean up, you get through all of the things, you're exhausted, you're tired. Hey everybody, it's time to clean up. And then by 5 a.m., 6 a.m., whenever you're winding down the final hours of a lock-in where your body is running on Monster Energy Drink and Tylenol mostly, then you can really let them say they're gonna watch the whole movie and they will probably fall asleep. So you cut out quite a bit of lock in time where it's still like you give your leaders a break. You can get breakfast stuff ready to go if you want to do breakfast, but always do clean up, everybody clean up. And then we're going to go watch a movie. And that really helps. It's still fun. There's still those crazy kids that are like, I just drink four Mountain Dew Code Reds. How am going to sit still during this movie? And they're still like able to have something engaging, but most of the kids will nap and parents will show up and it's just a win. Nick Clason (25:01.728) Yeah. Nick Clason (25:28.75) Bro, a code red doesn't even touch like your level of tiredness at 5 a.m. if you haven't slept. Like I don't care how wired up on sugar you are. And then there's always those kids, right, that it's over. like, I watched the whole thing. It's like, no you didn't, bro. You were snoring logs over there. Yeah, yeah. Andrew Jansen (25:37.095) yeah. Andrew Jansen (25:44.886) Yep, yeah. How did you watch the whole thing where you were completely submerged under chairs and blanket and pillow? yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Nick Clason (25:51.03) What's that drool next to your face? What's that from? Is that from your code red? Yeah, no, I've done that before. I have done lock-ins, to be clear. I always end with the movie as well. It's the best way to just calm everybody down and just get to the finish line. That's what that's called. It's called survive and advance onto the finish line. Nice, dude. Well, hey. Andrew Jansen (26:04.682) Mm-hmm. yeah. Andrew Jansen (26:12.514) survive in advance. I love it. Nick Clason (26:16.726) I appreciate you hopping on. If you're listening, like go grab Andrew's Locket Guide, play Assassin, let us know, let him know if you did it and what other hacks you might have down below in the comments. until next time, my friends, thanks for being here. See ya. Keywords youth ministry, games, assassin game, youth pastors, event planning, engagement, conference activities, youth retreats, fun activities, youth group, d-now, winter retreat, fall retreat, summer camp, on-going games In this episode I sit down and share the entire inspiration for this D-Now, Winter Retreat & Summer Camp on-going games with my friend, Andrew Jansen.
Andrew is a 10+ year youth worker, and his assassin game sparked this entire podcast mini-series.
He expains his creative (and super CHEAP) adaptation to this game.
Plus! Andrew shared his lock-in survival guide for FREE!

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πŸ•°οΈTIMECODES
00:00 Assassin Game with Clothes Pins
03:41 Social Media While You’re Busy
05:02 Assassin Game Rules
06:20 Ways to Play the Game
09:31 Pro-Tips
13:42 No Prize? No Problem - Do this!
14:30 Pro-Tip #2
18:52 How are you going to play, moving forward?
19:37 Could you play this game at summer camp?
21:50 Two Final Assassin Rules to Follow
23:47 FREE Lock-in Survival Guide

--------------
TRANSCRIPT
Nick Clason (00:01.378)
Well, what's up everybody? I'm here with Andrew. Andrew, how you doing this morning, bro?

Andrew Jansen (00:07.725)
doing good. God is good. It's a good morning. Getting into my emails and excited to talk about the game thing that you want to talk to me about.

Nick Clason (00:17.39)
Yeah. I'm glad, like, I hope that talking about the game thing is more exciting than your emails. That's, that's, that's my hope for all of this. Um, but yeah. So I, you know, I, you and I, we've known each other for a couple of years now, mostly through zoom, but we've hung out two times in person. And one of the times that we hung out in person, I was at your church. Um,

Andrew Jansen (00:26.057)
I hope so too. Yeah. Definitely.

Nick Clason (00:44.974)
Helping you out with like a like a retreat conference. What would you call that thing? It's a conference, right?

Andrew Jansen (00:51.297)
Yeah, it's like a student conference between like 250, 500 people give or take which year you're at the conference. Yeah.

Nick Clason (00:58.21)
Yeah, that's a big, that's a big range. But one of the things that you guys did that I loved was you had this game happening in the background of the conference, I guess. It wasn't like a stage game, though you had stage games. It wasn't like a big thing that in the main general session that took a lot of time, if any time.

Like aside from maybe just like explaining the rules. it was like, it was this like assassin type game. tell me, like just explain to the people. Cause what I loved about it was that it was an activity to do in the margins and ongoingly throughout the weekend that kind of kept you, kept students engaged and having something, you know, to kind of like focus on and do like above and beyond just like all the normal conference attend attending like stuff. So.

Andrew Jansen (01:33.39)
Yes.

Nick Clason (01:55.478)
Where did this idea come from? How did it go? Like, let's talk about it.

Andrew Jansen (01:56.152)
Yes.

Andrew Jansen (02:00.139)
Yes, so like all great ideas, I stole it from, I believe we played this game in my youth ministry growing up. So my youth pastor, question mark, shout out Jake Lindhart. He's a great youth pastor. But I'm sure he stole that from somebody as well before him, but it's the original game was played with rubber bands and you would like, you would like snap a rubber band on. So I grew up in the nineties.

Nick Clason (02:18.446)
Yeah

Nick Clason (02:24.568)
Okay.

Andrew Jansen (02:29.701)
early 2000s youth group era where we did all kinds of things that would get you fired nowadays, but where you would literally snap people with rubber bands and if you snapped them while they weren't looking, then they were assassinated and they would give you their name that they had been given at the start of the game.

Nick Clason (02:34.67)
Okay.

Nick Clason (02:43.04)
Yeah.

Nick Clason (02:50.432)
Was their name like their name or a name of like another person?

Andrew Jansen (02:54.145)
It's the name. So let me let's explain the game real quick. And then we can kind of go into the like a little bit more of like what we change rules, that kind of stuff. So the game is essentially everybody signs up and then you take everybody and write their name down and then you assign their name to somebody besides them. It's easier to make a list and kind of just go like numbered.

Nick Clason (02:57.805)
Yeah.

Nick Clason (03:05.272)
Yeah.

Nick Clason (03:20.024)
Okay.

Andrew Jansen (03:23.693)
And like, so number one would have name number two. And then if you have 50 students, number 50 would have number one. And the goal is to assassinate that person and a bit like you win if you get your own name. So that's the, like if you get handed your own name and you've been playing it for a while and it's not like the first person you kill and something that just means your youth pastor messed up and that's okay.

Nick Clason (03:27.181)
Yeah.

Nick Clason (03:31.694)
Okay.

Nick Clason (03:39.426)
Okay.

Andrew Jansen (03:49.137)
give grace. But if you get your own name at the end, then you are the assassin champion. And that's kind of the concept behind the game.

Nick Clason (03:56.461)
Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. Gotcha. And so like I was saying, like I was watching kids at your conference, like running around, like, you know, hiding from each other. Like one kid came up to me and was like, can you go get that girl over there? Cause she like knows like I'm coming for her, you know? So was like sort of all sort of like strategy and like gamesmanship. So how did you adapt it then for, for this one?

Andrew Jansen (04:25.688)
for sure.

Right. So I believe we did this a few years ago at the same conference with Nerf guns, but I had a whole bunch of like clothes pins at our church that we use for various things. feel like every time we need clothes pins, we just went and bought them until we had thousands of clothes pins. And I was like, we got to do something with these clothes pins. But it's funny when you act, when you're like, Hey, we talked about this assassin's game.

Nick Clason (04:35.671)
Okay.

Nick Clason (04:47.822)
hehe

Andrew Jansen (04:58.366)
It did not go the way that I was like hoping it would go or the way that I was planning it to go. I think they had fun. They had a blast. Like kids were running around like crazy, screaming, like getting really into it. We had to tell a couple of kids to calm down, which that's, I'd rather tell kids calm down than be like, Hey, come on, like get into it.

Nick Clason (05:00.046)
I'm

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Nick Clason (05:16.386)
Right, you should, yeah, you should care about this more, yeah.

Andrew Jansen (05:20.33)
Right. They were very into it. I kind of talked about it with some of the volunteer board members and kind of figured out what is something that can happen. I think of it as like a meta event. It's always just constantly in motion. Obviously, you don't want to have it happening during praise and worship time or while you're in small groups or the speaker is speaking. all that in between transition, walking around time.

Nick Clason (05:29.358)
me.

Nick Clason (05:38.647)
Yeah.

Nick Clason (05:42.167)
Right.

Andrew Jansen (05:49.625)
we gave students clothes pins and those clothes pins had the name of their that they wrote their name on the clothes pin and then we handed them their target clothes pin and that was the person that they were trying to go get so you had to clip on the clothes pin

Nick Clason (06:03.63)
Okay, so in theory, if every kid comes in, signs up, writes their name on a clothespin, then that's your pool of contestants. because one of the things you guys did was you didn't make this required for everyone. You're like, if you want to play, swing by the table and sign up.

Andrew Jansen (06:09.666)
Mm-hmm.

Andrew Jansen (06:22.978)
For sure. Cause I mean, if you have, if you make everybody do it, you're going to have like 10 people that are just like, I'm just going to throw away this clothes pin and then they're, they're out. They're not, you're like, Hey, I got you. Where's your clothes pin? And like, I threw it away. Cause I don't care about this at all. Cause I'm a punk eighth grade student or whatever. And like, so, so it's, we wanted to make it be just, if you're, if you're interested in playing this type of game, you know, go, go sign up. We,

Nick Clason (06:37.438)
Mm. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Andrew Jansen (06:53.572)
started with them writing their own names. And then I think it turned into kids can't write at all. And like, we were like, who, what is this? What is your name? Like, it was like, my name's Steve. And I was like, that does not say Steve at all. And that is not cursive or that I don't know what font that is, but you need to practice writing. But we ended up making that list and then writing their names down.

Nick Clason (06:56.832)
Okay.

Nick Clason (07:00.972)
Yeah. What fart? geez.

Andrew Jansen (07:21.472)
And then we handed them out at lunch, I think. We made the order and we're like, OK, this student is getting this kid's name so that the list was in a circle, so to speak.

Nick Clason (07:23.872)
Okay, yeah.

Nick Clason (07:34.038)
Now, you need to like, there any, are there any like hacks that youth pastors need to think about with like assigning it or is it just like, just do it randomly and it's fine?

Andrew Jansen (07:44.993)
Yeah, I had it so that was the part that I think went that was the craziest because originally we were just write your name and on the pin and then take the neck though like the last person that wrote their name down take their clothes pin so they just were in order as they went but that got Completely they just started chucking them into a bucket and they were like I signed up and then ran away

Nick Clason (08:02.498)
Gotcha.

Andrew Jansen (08:11.928)
So I would say have that like it would be easiest to do. All right get in line Go to a sign-up station get signed up and do either alphabetical order or do the order in which you signed up is the order in which you You know like are trying to get the next person

Nick Clason (08:31.981)
Yeah. So is that, I mean, that's a pretty like administratively heavy task, right? So like if you're a youth pastor, you're running an event, you're running a retreat or a D now, like would you recommend having a really organized person facilitate some of that off to the side so that you're not having to get sucked down into the weeds on that?

Andrew Jansen (08:51.21)
Absolutely. Yeah. If you have an intern, definitely that's a great intern task is just sit there, get all the students signed up and write their names down on a clothes pin or how whatever assassin's weapon you're using. But we use like a Nerf gun, I think a few years ago, probably can't get away with rubber band anymore, but yeah.

Nick Clason (09:06.936)
Yeah.

Okay.

How did the Nerf gun work? Like how did that, like was it successful would you say? Or was clothespin like a better idea? what, cause I let one of the things, like in a couple of episodes I'm actually gonna talk to another guy and he created an AI like app for taking pictures, like an assassin picture game. So if like, if you can be confidently sure that everyone has a cell phone, that's a great opportunity, like a great way to do it. But.

Andrew Jansen (09:34.754)
Nice.

Andrew Jansen (09:38.434)
Yep. Yeah.

Nick Clason (09:40.302)
Like I like this one being analog, right? In some way, because if kids don't have phones or like whatever, they're able to still do it. How'd the Nerf gun thing like work? Like, was it confusing? Was it like, cause I would imagine if you're on the other side of the room, you get like hit by a Nerf dart. Like, do you know for sure who shot it? Like what if multiple people shot it? Like, you know what mean? Like that type of stuff. was it, was it, did it, yeah, how'd it go?

Andrew Jansen (10:06.882)
I think it went well. was, they did popsicle sticks and you had a popsicle stick with a person's name on it and you were collecting popsicle sticks. I thought it went well because if you're shooting the Nerf gun and you hit your target, you're gonna immediately go up and be like, hey, I hit you. Like that was my dart that hit you. If it's like crossfire or something like that, I mean, middle schoolers are gonna cheat for sure. Freshman boys.

Nick Clason (10:10.721)
Okay.

Nick Clason (10:17.271)
Yeah.

Nick Clason (10:24.835)
Yeah.

Nick Clason (10:31.853)
Yeah.

Andrew Jansen (10:35.96)
typically will be like, I've killed everybody in this room already. I'm like, no, you haven't. We haven't even started yet. that like, like, I'm like, nice try. But the, the, the nerf, I think it worked well because it, the first of all, the nerf gun was very low power. So you had to be, I think you had about five feet to, to like be able to like shoot it and, and hit them. And then, and it was also fun because

Nick Clason (10:36.738)
That's, yeah.

Ha!

Nick Clason (10:51.459)
Yeah.

There you go.

Nick Clason (10:59.938)
Right.

Andrew Jansen (11:03.192)
There was one this will haunt my dreams forever because I think it was like a junior high school girl was like carving numbers in her little plastic nerve gun with how many kids that she was like assassinating and she I think yeah, I was like Yeah, I was like Let me know when you're not in the same town that I'm in so that I can sleep well Yeah, it was terrifying but they they got into it which is they this seems to be some

Nick Clason (11:08.514)
Yeah.

Nick Clason (11:15.55)
my gosh. That is like what horror movies are made of, bro.

Andrew Jansen (11:32.832)
a type of game that it's a meta happening all throughout the conference, all throughout the event. And they really, really love trying to assassinate their friends.

Nick Clason (11:38.925)
Yeah.

Nick Clason (11:44.77)
Yeah, and if you don't have a budget for a prize for the winner, these types of events are a great way to pit churches or youth groups or small groups or color groups or however you want to break it up against each other. And you can just give 1,000 points to the winner, and 1,000 points is free for youth pastors. And then, yes. Yeah, dude.

Andrew Jansen (12:03.565)
Yes.

Yep, I love points. have unlimited points in my budget. It's great. have trillions and trillions of points.

Nick Clason (12:12.288)
It's truly the only unlimited thing we as youth pastors have access to, you know, aside from maybe Bibles that were discarded or old couches. But other than that, points are for sure unlimited. So, all right. So is there anything else, any other like pro tips that you would have if someone's like, all right, this sounds like a cool idea. You know, just something to kind of like run on in the background of my D now or my summer camp, my retreat, like.

Andrew Jansen (12:17.016)
for sure.

Nick Clason (12:40.556)
You have any pro tips that you'd give a youth pastor so that doesn't flop and fail or like to maybe help them avoid middle schoolers trying to cheat or is that just an inevitability?

Andrew Jansen (12:49.56)
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they will cheat for sure. But I would say that have your like sign up sheet, your sign up, like the starting of the Assassin's Game, have that organized and fleshed out before you start, because that's the hardest part of getting that train to leave the station is just getting every student signed up and then assigning who their target is in a way that allows it to go like.

Nick Clason (12:53.666)
Yeah.

Nick Clason (13:09.902)
Mm.

Andrew Jansen (13:17.068)
Number one has number two and then all the way through like number 50 has number one. Because if you get off in that process, then you're going to get like someone's going to go, I won because I got my own name. And then you're like, no, how do I fix this? got switched? What got swapped? What happened?

Nick Clason (13:20.588)
Yeah. Yeah.

Nick Clason (13:35.358)
Is there, so is there no mathematical way for them to get their own name until they win? Like is that how it should work? I'm like, I'm not a statistician, so I'm not over here able to like think of this on the fly. So, okay, so there's no possible way for them, like if they get their own name and they didn't win, it's messed up somehow, yeah. Yeah, cause I did remember seeing the guy behind the desk, cause it wasn't you.

Andrew Jansen (13:42.508)
That's how it should work. If you number them...

Andrew Jansen (13:53.997)
Something, yeah, something messed up. Yep. So I would say do that either.

Nick Clason (14:02.434)
But the guy behind the desk, he was like, way to just throw him under the bus. I was trying not to do that. But he was like, like I just saw him like an internal like moment of panic when like some people were like giving him things. He's like, that's, that might not be right. Like that right there was like, this game seems amazing and intricate, but like that moment, like every youth pastor has been there where they have an amazing game. And then there's that moment of panic where they're like thinking, crap, I, something isn't working right.

Andrew Jansen (14:02.614)
Yeah, it was Dawson. Yeah, he's a great guy.

Andrew Jansen (14:15.735)
Yes.

Andrew Jansen (14:31.998)
Mm-hmm. for sure. No, loved Dawson was a youth leader of mine and he you know He's a youth pastor at the church that I was at. So no, I love Dawson. He did a great job It's my fault. I didn't lead him well in executing those things. So it's all it's all on me No, it was it definitely there's a moment of panic when a group of students are like, hey I got like my friend like my friend and I got each other's names and we're not

Nick Clason (14:46.798)
There you go.

Andrew Jansen (15:00.396)
the first and last person. And that was all the, that was all the clothes pins were jumbled up in a bin and we did not have a good like start and then like sign up the way, like the best, not, not that it wasn't good. We just didn't have the best version of that that we could have, could have rolled out. And then I would say that one of the reasons why it didn't go exactly the way we had hoped was we had flag football.

Nick Clason (15:02.349)
Yeah.

Nick Clason (15:12.556)
Right.

Nick Clason (15:16.93)
Right, Yeah.

Andrew Jansen (15:29.944)
and open gym at another location during that free time where they could play assassins. So a quarter of the conference was over at the gyms and everybody that was playing assassins that didn't want to go play flag football or open gym was at our church. And they, if you got a name of somebody that was over there, you couldn't like, was like, well, it was raining.

Nick Clason (15:33.41)
Mm.

Yeah.

Nick Clason (15:56.558)
Mmm.

Andrew Jansen (15:58.999)
They, if you weren't over there, yeah, it was a little bit too far to walk, especially in the rain. So it, that, was one of the things of making sure you have an extended free time where you're not like off on different locations or different parts of town or anything like that, where you have like, if you're at a camp where everybody's on campgrounds, it's a good game to play throughout the week or like we're doing a lock-in for New Year's Eve.

Nick Clason (16:00.104)
It was like too far to walk. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Nick Clason (16:16.408)
Yeah.

Nick Clason (16:22.112)
Yeah.

Andrew Jansen (16:27.03)
And we're doing this, we're actually doing, I'm doing the Assassin's Game with the students at the lock-in when we're gonna try to revamp and correct some of the things that we noticed that did not quite go as planned.

Nick Clason (16:33.902)
There you go.

Nick Clason (16:39.926)
Okay, so that's a great, that's a great, so like the things you're talking about is like making sure you have it like the sign up and the assignments of who gets who a little more fleshed out, right? Like that was one of the things you talked about. Are you doing it with clothes pins or like how are you playing at your lock-in?

Andrew Jansen (16:48.641)
Mm-hmm.

Andrew Jansen (16:58.616)
Yeah, I still have, we have 900 clothes pins instead of a thousand. we're still looking to get rid of some of those clothes pins. But I think it'll work out well because it's gonna be a smaller group. We're not gonna have 250 students that are running around like crazy. So we're gonna have them sign up. I have a list of all of-

Nick Clason (17:18.456)
Yeah.

Andrew Jansen (17:27.008)
I know these students because they're my students. So I'm going to have like some options and a set chunk of time where they can really, you know, get after it and assassinate their friends with clothespins.

Nick Clason (17:30.402)
That helps, yeah.

Nick Clason (17:35.884)
Yeah. Yeah.

Now, is this a game that you could envision happening? Like if someone wanted to do this over like the course of like a week long summer camp, let's say like a three, four, five day summer camp. Can it last that long? Do you think or does it need to be like a quicker spur?

Andrew Jansen (17:51.33)
Mm-hmm.

Andrew Jansen (17:59.001)
I think the more time you have, the better it can go because then you can be a little bit more methodical. People can get into it. I've seen people army crawl through like cafeteria chairs to like get there like is here's another hack for the game. Make sure you let them know what parts of the body are allowed to get assassinated or not because obviously we don't want

Nick Clason (18:02.008)
Okay.

Nick Clason (18:10.13)
Hehe.

Nick Clason (18:14.059)
Mm-hmm.

Nick Clason (18:28.238)
Probably good, yeah.

Andrew Jansen (18:29.036)
to, yeah, we don't want to have a horrible situation with some clothes pins or whatever you're using. Definitely the rubber band game needed that. I saw kids like army crawling through cafeteria chairs to like slowly go get their friends like shirt sleeve because it was throughout the week instead of just that like five or six hours over the weekend of the conference where they could play. So I think it lasts for sure. At least two days.

Nick Clason (18:36.895)
Yeah.

Nick Clason (18:47.032)
Yeah.

Nick Clason (18:51.629)
Yeah.

Nick Clason (18:55.894)
Yeah. So then on like a game, so then on like a gameplay side, like if you, like if you assassinate someone, you get their clothes pin. So you're only at any given moment. You're only carrying around one, right? Like you don't, you don't walk around with like a big handful of clothes pins at any moment. So that way, cause you, bring it back to like home base or whatever to let someone know like this person's out.

Andrew Jansen (19:15.734)
No. Yep.

Andrew Jansen (19:22.978)
Yeah, and that lets the person that's doing the sign up and has that list allows them to kind of see like, okay, this person's making their way through all of these people. And you kind of can tell like, okay, and you know, if somebody loses a pin, you have a better chance of going, that was this person. They lost their pin at this point and you can just write the next person's name and give them that pin.

Nick Clason (19:32.226)
Yeah.

Nick Clason (19:47.052)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay, nice. All right, anything else that someone who's trying to do this needs to think through or that you learned seeing it be done?

Andrew Jansen (20:01.362)
For sure. I would say the two quick things that we didn't really touch on is clear boundaries, like out of bounds, when they can and cannot assassinate somebody is really important. Obviously, hearing about Jesus and praising Jesus through worship music takes precedent over the praising Jesus through fun. I mean, it's still praising Jesus. It's just a different

Nick Clason (20:09.132)
Mm.

Nick Clason (20:23.266)
The game, yeah. Yeah.

Andrew Jansen (20:28.268)
way that we're doing that and we want to have Jesus be the main thing. So making sure that they're not assassinating each other during small group time, praise and worship time, or any of the main session type times is important. So let them know like, hey, we're only doing this during free time, lunchtime, game time, whatever. And have like, I would say have like lights out if you're at a camp for a week. Like, hey, once it's lights out, would.

Nick Clason (20:38.231)
Yeah.

Andrew Jansen (20:56.972)
That's just, you're asking for trouble. Like, Hey, why were you in the girls dorm? I was trying to get her like, no, like that's we're not playing at night time. So I would say that would be one. And then making sure like the, out of bounds, like, Hey, we're not, you're not going to be off camp property. You're not going to be off church property. No, you cannot get on the roof. No, you cannot crawl through the drainage pipes and like all of those usual things. Like what can I like,

Nick Clason (20:57.09)
Yeah.

Nick Clason (21:02.917)
Yeah

Andrew Jansen (21:24.16)
latch on underneath the church van and then crawl onto the windshield and like I'm like no what you're gonna die that thing that's don't do that. They get really into it so making sure that you you kind of have those you know outlines of like what the boundaries are for both like physical where they can play the game and then also the times in which they play the game.

Nick Clason (21:29.102)
Yeah.

Nick Clason (21:44.364)
Right. Yeah, that's good. It's Nice. And you mentioned that you're going to play this at your lock-in, most any now, how many years have you been youth ministry again, Andrew? So most youth pastors who have at least hit the 10 year mark in youth ministry are team anti lock-in, but for some incredibly weird reason, your team pro lock-in.

Andrew Jansen (21:52.769)
Yes.

Andrew Jansen (21:59.513)
Ten years.

Andrew Jansen (22:13.342)
I am pro. Pro lock-in. Yes.

Nick Clason (22:13.492)
And so, yeah. So as I said at the beginning, you have a completely free lock-in guide planning sheet down below. If any one of you is insane enough to do a lock-in like Andrew, this can help you. I will not be a customer of this sheet, but I will let other people know that it exists.

Andrew Jansen (22:23.17)
Yes.

Andrew Jansen (22:38.434)
For sure. Yeah. And it, it's just everything that I've learned over the years. I love lock-ins. we did lock-ins at, in our youth group growing up, think almost every year are I'm from Wichita, Kansas. And we had a big like Wichita area citywide lock-in with hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of students that would, sign up for all of this crazy stuff. So, this is just all the stuff that I've learned kind of, some hacks, both attending a lock-in, putting on a lock-in.

Nick Clason (22:57.901)
Yeah.

Andrew Jansen (23:08.188)
And I've added some things to it over the years. So yeah, if anybody has any questions, they can email me or reach out to you and you can give them my info or whatever. But it's really helpful.

Nick Clason (23:11.948)
Yeah.

Nick Clason (23:22.156)
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. All right, man. Well, yeah, dude, go for it. Give a give a little bit. Give a give like a sneak peek.

Andrew Jansen (23:26.232)
Do you want me to talk about it or is that good? For sure. A sneak peek. one of the...

Nick Clason (23:35.47)
But don't give it all away, because we still want them to go get it, you know what I mean? So like, make it a big old teaser, like cliffhanger, of ultimate proportions.

Andrew Jansen (23:39.764)
Absolutely. For sure.

So first of all, shout out to my wife for making it look super amazing and incredible because honestly, yeah, she's amazing. I wish that I would hire her tomorrow if that were possible.

Nick Clason (23:49.112)
Dude, your wife is, this shirt right here, your wife designed. Yeah.

Yeah, she...

Yeah, but she works for you for free, so why would you do that?

Andrew Jansen (24:02.082)
That's true. It's not for free. do. I have to like rubber feet and like get her food and take, make sure she's locked in on all that stuff. speaking of lock-ins, the, the number one hack from my lock-in survival guide, and this is an exhaustive or, perfect in any way, there's definitely stuff that can be added to it. But I would say that at the end of the night, I always start with, or end with a movie after cleanup.

Nick Clason (24:06.286)
there you go. Yeah.

Nick Clason (24:30.582)
Yeah. Yeah.

Andrew Jansen (24:31.692)
Because once you clean up, you get through all of the things, you're exhausted, you're tired. Hey everybody, it's time to clean up. And then by 5 a.m., 6 a.m., whenever you're winding down the final hours of a lock-in where your body is running on Monster Energy Drink and Tylenol mostly, then you can really let them say they're gonna watch the whole movie and they will probably fall asleep.

So you cut out quite a bit of lock in time where it's still like you give your leaders a break. You can get breakfast stuff ready to go if you want to do breakfast, but always do clean up, everybody clean up. And then we're going to go watch a movie. And that really helps. It's still fun. There's still those crazy kids that are like, I just drink four Mountain Dew Code Reds. How am going to sit still during this movie? And they're still like able to have something engaging, but most of the kids will nap and parents will show up and it's just a win.

Nick Clason (25:01.728)
Yeah.

Nick Clason (25:28.75)
Bro, a code red doesn't even touch like your level of tiredness at 5 a.m. if you haven't slept. Like I don't care how wired up on sugar you are. And then there's always those kids, right, that it's over. like, I watched the whole thing. It's like, no you didn't, bro. You were snoring logs over there. Yeah, yeah.

Andrew Jansen (25:37.095)
yeah.

Andrew Jansen (25:44.886)
Yep, yeah. How did you watch the whole thing where you were completely submerged under chairs and blanket and pillow? yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Nick Clason (25:51.03)
What's that drool next to your face? What's that from? Is that from your code red? Yeah, no, I've done that before. I have done lock-ins, to be clear. I always end with the movie as well. It's the best way to just calm everybody down and just get to the finish line. That's what that's called. It's called survive and advance onto the finish line. Nice, dude. Well, hey.

Andrew Jansen (26:04.682)
Mm-hmm. yeah.

Andrew Jansen (26:12.514)
survive in advance. I love it.

Nick Clason (26:16.726)
I appreciate you hopping on. If you're listening, like go grab Andrew's Locket Guide, play Assassin, let us know, let him know if you did it and what other hacks you might have down below in the comments. until next time, my friends, thanks for being here. See ya.

]]> In this episode I sit down and share the entire inspiration for this D-Now, Winter Retreat & Summer Camp on-going games with my friend, Andrew Jansen.
Andrew is a 10+ year youth worker, and his assassin game sparked this entire podcast mini-series.
He expains his creative (and super CHEAP) adaptation to this game.
Plus! Andrew shared his lock-in survival guide for FREE!

Andrew's Lock-in Guide:
https://www.patreon.com/posts/10-year-veterans-146449370?utm_medium=clipboard_copy&utm_source=copyLink&utm_campaign=postshare_creator&utm_content=join_link

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πŸ•°οΈTIMECODES
00:00 Assassin Game with Clothes Pins
03:41 Social Media While You’re Busy
05:02 Assassin Game Rules
06:20 Ways to Play the Game
09:31 Pro-Tips
13:42 No Prize? No Problem - Do this!
14:30 Pro-Tip #2
18:52 How are you going to play, moving forward?
19:37 Could you play this game at summer camp?
21:50 Two Final Assassin Rules to Follow
23:47 FREE Lock-in Survival Guide

--------------
TRANSCRIPT
Nick Clason (00:01.378)
Well, what's up everybody? I'm here with Andrew. Andrew, how you doing this morning, bro?

Andrew Jansen (00:07.725)
doing good. God is good. It's a good morning. Getting into my emails and excited to talk about the game thing that you want to talk to me about.

Nick Clason (00:17.39)
Yeah. I'm glad, like, I hope that talking about the game thing is more exciting than your emails. That's, that's, that's my hope for all of this. Um, but yeah. So I, you know, I, you and I, we've known each other for a couple of years now, mostly through zoom, but we've hung out two times in person. And one of the times that we hung out in person, I was at your church. Um,

Andrew Jansen (00:26.057)
I hope so too. Yeah. Definitely.

Nick Clason (00:44.974)
Helping you out with like a like a retreat conference. What would you call that thing? It's a conference, right?

Andrew Jansen (00:51.297)
Yeah, it's like a student conference between like 250, 500 people give or take which year you're at the conference. Yeah.

Nick Clason (00:58.21)
Yeah, that's a big, that's a big range. But one of the things that you guys did that I loved was you had this game happening in the background of the conference, I guess. It wasn't like a stage game, though you had stage games. It wasn't like a big thing that in the main general session that took a lot of time, if any time.

Like aside from maybe just like explaining the rules. it was like, it was this like assassin type game. tell me, like just explain to the people. Cause what I loved about it was that it was an activity to do in the margins and ongoingly throughout the weekend that kind of kept you, kept students engaged and having something, you know, to kind of like focus on and do like above and beyond just like all the normal conference attend attending like stuff. So.

Andrew Jansen (01:33.39)
Yes.

Nick Clason (01:55.478)
Where did this idea come from? How did it go? Like, let's talk about it.

Andrew Jansen (01:56.152)
Yes.

Andrew Jansen (02:00.139)
Yes, so like all great ideas, I stole it from, I believe we played this game in my youth ministry growing up. So my youth pastor, question mark, shout out Jake Lindhart. He's a great youth pastor. But I'm sure he stole that from somebody as well before him, but it's the original game was played with rubber bands and you would like, you would like snap a rubber band on. So I grew up in the nineties.

Nick Clason (02:18.446)
Yeah

Nick Clason (02:24.568)
Okay.

Andrew Jansen (02:29.701)
early 2000s youth group era where we did all kinds of things that would get you fired nowadays, but where you would literally snap people with rubber bands and if you snapped them while they weren't looking, then they were assassinated and they would give you their name that they had been given at the start of the game.

Nick Clason (02:34.67)
Okay.

Nick Clason (02:43.04)
Yeah.

Nick Clason (02:50.432)
Was their name like their name or a name of like another person?

Andrew Jansen (02:54.145)
It's the name. So let me let's explain the game real quick. And then we can kind of go into the like a little bit more of like what we change rules, that kind of stuff. So the game is essentially everybody signs up and then you take everybody and write their name down and then you assign their name to somebody besides them. It's easier to make a list and kind of just go like numbered.

Nick Clason (02:57.805)
Yeah.

Nick Clason (03:05.272)
Yeah.

Nick Clason (03:20.024)
Okay.

Andrew Jansen (03:23.693)
And like, so number one would have name number two. And then if you have 50 students, number 50 would have number one. And the goal is to assassinate that person and a bit like you win if you get your own name. So that's the, like if you get handed your own name and you've been playing it for a while and it's not like the first person you kill and something that just means your youth pastor messed up and that's okay.

Nick Clason (03:27.181)
Yeah.

Nick Clason (03:31.694)
Okay.

Nick Clason (03:39.426)
Okay.

Andrew Jansen (03:49.137)
give grace. But if you get your own name at the end, then you are the assassin champion. And that's kind of the concept behind the game.

Nick Clason (03:56.461)
Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. Gotcha. And so like I was saying, like I was watching kids at your conference, like running around, like, you know, hiding from each other. Like one kid came up to me and was like, can you go get that girl over there? Cause she like knows like I'm coming for her, you know? So was like sort of all sort of like strategy and like gamesmanship. So how did you adapt it then for, for this one?

Andrew Jansen (04:25.688)
for sure.

Right. So I believe we did this a few years ago at the same conference with Nerf guns, but I had a whole bunch of like clothes pins at our church that we use for various things. feel like every time we need clothes pins, we just went and bought them until we had thousands of clothes pins. And I was like, we got to do something with these clothes pins. But it's funny when you act, when you're like, Hey, we talked about this assassin's game.

Nick Clason (04:35.671)
Okay.

Nick Clason (04:47.822)
hehe

Andrew Jansen (04:58.366)
It did not go the way that I was like hoping it would go or the way that I was planning it to go. I think they had fun. They had a blast. Like kids were running around like crazy, screaming, like getting really into it. We had to tell a couple of kids to calm down, which that's, I'd rather tell kids calm down than be like, Hey, come on, like get into it.

Nick Clason (05:00.046)
I'm

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Nick Clason (05:16.386)
Right, you should, yeah, you should care about this more, yeah.

Andrew Jansen (05:20.33)
Right. They were very into it. I kind of talked about it with some of the volunteer board members and kind of figured out what is something that can happen. I think of it as like a meta event. It's always just constantly in motion. Obviously, you don't want to have it happening during praise and worship time or while you're in small groups or the speaker is speaking. all that in between transition, walking around time.

Nick Clason (05:29.358)
me.

Nick Clason (05:38.647)
Yeah.

Nick Clason (05:42.167)
Right.

Andrew Jansen (05:49.625)
we gave students clothes pins and those clothes pins had the name of their that they wrote their name on the clothes pin and then we handed them their target clothes pin and that was the person that they were trying to go get so you had to clip on the clothes pin

Nick Clason (06:03.63)
Okay, so in theory, if every kid comes in, signs up, writes their name on a clothespin, then that's your pool of contestants. because one of the things you guys did was you didn't make this required for everyone. You're like, if you want to play, swing by the table and sign up.

Andrew Jansen (06:09.666)
Mm-hmm.

Andrew Jansen (06:22.978)
For sure. Cause I mean, if you have, if you make everybody do it, you're going to have like 10 people that are just like, I'm just going to throw away this clothes pin and then they're, they're out. They're not, you're like, Hey, I got you. Where's your clothes pin? And like, I threw it away. Cause I don't care about this at all. Cause I'm a punk eighth grade student or whatever. And like, so, so it's, we wanted to make it be just, if you're, if you're interested in playing this type of game, you know, go, go sign up. We,

Nick Clason (06:37.438)
Mm. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Andrew Jansen (06:53.572)
started with them writing their own names. And then I think it turned into kids can't write at all. And like, we were like, who, what is this? What is your name? Like, it was like, my name's Steve. And I was like, that does not say Steve at all. And that is not cursive or that I don't know what font that is, but you need to practice writing. But we ended up making that list and then writing their names down.

Nick Clason (06:56.832)
Okay.

Nick Clason (07:00.972)
Yeah. What fart? geez.

Andrew Jansen (07:21.472)
And then we handed them out at lunch, I think. We made the order and we're like, OK, this student is getting this kid's name so that the list was in a circle, so to speak.

Nick Clason (07:23.872)
Okay, yeah.

Nick Clason (07:34.038)
Now, you need to like, there any, are there any like hacks that youth pastors need to think about with like assigning it or is it just like, just do it randomly and it's fine?

Andrew Jansen (07:44.993)
Yeah, I had it so that was the part that I think went that was the craziest because originally we were just write your name and on the pin and then take the neck though like the last person that wrote their name down take their clothes pin so they just were in order as they went but that got Completely they just started chucking them into a bucket and they were like I signed up and then ran away

Nick Clason (08:02.498)
Gotcha.

Andrew Jansen (08:11.928)
So I would say have that like it would be easiest to do. All right get in line Go to a sign-up station get signed up and do either alphabetical order or do the order in which you signed up is the order in which you You know like are trying to get the next person

Nick Clason (08:31.981)
Yeah. So is that, I mean, that's a pretty like administratively heavy task, right? So like if you're a youth pastor, you're running an event, you're running a retreat or a D now, like would you recommend having a really organized person facilitate some of that off to the side so that you're not having to get sucked down into the weeds on that?

Andrew Jansen (08:51.21)
Absolutely. Yeah. If you have an intern, definitely that's a great intern task is just sit there, get all the students signed up and write their names down on a clothes pin or how whatever assassin's weapon you're using. But we use like a Nerf gun, I think a few years ago, probably can't get away with rubber band anymore, but yeah.

Nick Clason (09:06.936)
Yeah.

Okay.

How did the Nerf gun work? Like how did that, like was it successful would you say? Or was clothespin like a better idea? what, cause I let one of the things, like in a couple of episodes I'm actually gonna talk to another guy and he created an AI like app for taking pictures, like an assassin picture game. So if like, if you can be confidently sure that everyone has a cell phone, that's a great opportunity, like a great way to do it. But.

Andrew Jansen (09:34.754)
Nice.

Andrew Jansen (09:38.434)
Yep. Yeah.

Nick Clason (09:40.302)
Like I like this one being analog, right? In some way, because if kids don't have phones or like whatever, they're able to still do it. How'd the Nerf gun thing like work? Like, was it confusing? Was it like, cause I would imagine if you're on the other side of the room, you get like hit by a Nerf dart. Like, do you know for sure who shot it? Like what if multiple people shot it? Like, you know what mean? Like that type of stuff. was it, was it, did it, yeah, how'd it go?

Andrew Jansen (10:06.882)
I think it went well. was, they did popsicle sticks and you had a popsicle stick with a person's name on it and you were collecting popsicle sticks. I thought it went well because if you're shooting the Nerf gun and you hit your target, you're gonna immediately go up and be like, hey, I hit you. Like that was my dart that hit you. If it's like crossfire or something like that, I mean, middle schoolers are gonna cheat for sure. Freshman boys.

Nick Clason (10:10.721)
Okay.

Nick Clason (10:17.271)
Yeah.

Nick Clason (10:24.835)
Yeah.

Nick Clason (10:31.853)
Yeah.

Andrew Jansen (10:35.96)
typically will be like, I've killed everybody in this room already. I'm like, no, you haven't. We haven't even started yet. that like, like, I'm like, nice try. But the, the, the nerf, I think it worked well because it, the first of all, the nerf gun was very low power. So you had to be, I think you had about five feet to, to like be able to like shoot it and, and hit them. And then, and it was also fun because

Nick Clason (10:36.738)
That's, yeah.

Ha!

Nick Clason (10:51.459)
Yeah.

There you go.

Nick Clason (10:59.938)
Right.

Andrew Jansen (11:03.192)
There was one this will haunt my dreams forever because I think it was like a junior high school girl was like carving numbers in her little plastic nerve gun with how many kids that she was like assassinating and she I think yeah, I was like Yeah, I was like Let me know when you're not in the same town that I'm in so that I can sleep well Yeah, it was terrifying but they they got into it which is they this seems to be some

Nick Clason (11:08.514)
Yeah.

Nick Clason (11:15.55)
my gosh. That is like what horror movies are made of, bro.

Andrew Jansen (11:32.832)
a type of game that it's a meta happening all throughout the conference, all throughout the event. And they really, really love trying to assassinate their friends.

Nick Clason (11:38.925)
Yeah.

Nick Clason (11:44.77)
Yeah, and if you don't have a budget for a prize for the winner, these types of events are a great way to pit churches or youth groups or small groups or color groups or however you want to break it up against each other. And you can just give 1,000 points to the winner, and 1,000 points is free for youth pastors. And then, yes. Yeah, dude.

Andrew Jansen (12:03.565)
Yes.

Yep, I love points. have unlimited points in my budget. It's great. have trillions and trillions of points.

Nick Clason (12:12.288)
It's truly the only unlimited thing we as youth pastors have access to, you know, aside from maybe Bibles that were discarded or old couches. But other than that, points are for sure unlimited. So, all right. So is there anything else, any other like pro tips that you would have if someone's like, all right, this sounds like a cool idea. You know, just something to kind of like run on in the background of my D now or my summer camp, my retreat, like.

Andrew Jansen (12:17.016)
for sure.

Nick Clason (12:40.556)
You have any pro tips that you'd give a youth pastor so that doesn't flop and fail or like to maybe help them avoid middle schoolers trying to cheat or is that just an inevitability?

Andrew Jansen (12:49.56)
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they will cheat for sure. But I would say that have your like sign up sheet, your sign up, like the starting of the Assassin's Game, have that organized and fleshed out before you start, because that's the hardest part of getting that train to leave the station is just getting every student signed up and then assigning who their target is in a way that allows it to go like.

Nick Clason (12:53.666)
Yeah.

Nick Clason (13:09.902)
Mm.

Andrew Jansen (13:17.068)
Number one has number two and then all the way through like number 50 has number one. Because if you get off in that process, then you're going to get like someone's going to go, I won because I got my own name. And then you're like, no, how do I fix this? got switched? What got swapped? What happened?

Nick Clason (13:20.588)
Yeah. Yeah.

Nick Clason (13:35.358)
Is there, so is there no mathematical way for them to get their own name until they win? Like is that how it should work? I'm like, I'm not a statistician, so I'm not over here able to like think of this on the fly. So, okay, so there's no possible way for them, like if they get their own name and they didn't win, it's messed up somehow, yeah. Yeah, cause I did remember seeing the guy behind the desk, cause it wasn't you.

Andrew Jansen (13:42.508)
That's how it should work. If you number them...

Andrew Jansen (13:53.997)
Something, yeah, something messed up. Yep. So I would say do that either.

Nick Clason (14:02.434)
But the guy behind the desk, he was like, way to just throw him under the bus. I was trying not to do that. But he was like, like I just saw him like an internal like moment of panic when like some people were like giving him things. He's like, that's, that might not be right. Like that right there was like, this game seems amazing and intricate, but like that moment, like every youth pastor has been there where they have an amazing game. And then there's that moment of panic where they're like thinking, crap, I, something isn't working right.

Andrew Jansen (14:02.614)
Yeah, it was Dawson. Yeah, he's a great guy.

Andrew Jansen (14:15.735)
Yes.

Andrew Jansen (14:31.998)
Mm-hmm. for sure. No, loved Dawson was a youth leader of mine and he you know He's a youth pastor at the church that I was at. So no, I love Dawson. He did a great job It's my fault. I didn't lead him well in executing those things. So it's all it's all on me No, it was it definitely there's a moment of panic when a group of students are like, hey I got like my friend like my friend and I got each other's names and we're not

Nick Clason (14:46.798)
There you go.

Andrew Jansen (15:00.396)
the first and last person. And that was all the, that was all the clothes pins were jumbled up in a bin and we did not have a good like start and then like sign up the way, like the best, not, not that it wasn't good. We just didn't have the best version of that that we could have, could have rolled out. And then I would say that one of the reasons why it didn't go exactly the way we had hoped was we had flag football.

Nick Clason (15:02.349)
Yeah.

Nick Clason (15:12.556)
Right.

Nick Clason (15:16.93)
Right, Yeah.

Andrew Jansen (15:29.944)
and open gym at another location during that free time where they could play assassins. So a quarter of the conference was over at the gyms and everybody that was playing assassins that didn't want to go play flag football or open gym was at our church. And they, if you got a name of somebody that was over there, you couldn't like, was like, well, it was raining.

Nick Clason (15:33.41)
Mm.

Yeah.

Nick Clason (15:56.558)
Mmm.

Andrew Jansen (15:58.999)
They, if you weren't over there, yeah, it was a little bit too far to walk, especially in the rain. So it, that, was one of the things of making sure you have an extended free time where you're not like off on different locations or different parts of town or anything like that, where you have like, if you're at a camp where everybody's on campgrounds, it's a good game to play throughout the week or like we're doing a lock-in for New Year's Eve.

Nick Clason (16:00.104)
It was like too far to walk. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Nick Clason (16:16.408)
Yeah.

Nick Clason (16:22.112)
Yeah.

Andrew Jansen (16:27.03)
And we're doing this, we're actually doing, I'm doing the Assassin's Game with the students at the lock-in when we're gonna try to revamp and correct some of the things that we noticed that did not quite go as planned.

Nick Clason (16:33.902)
There you go.

Nick Clason (16:39.926)
Okay, so that's a great, that's a great, so like the things you're talking about is like making sure you have it like the sign up and the assignments of who gets who a little more fleshed out, right? Like that was one of the things you talked about. Are you doing it with clothes pins or like how are you playing at your lock-in?

Andrew Jansen (16:48.641)
Mm-hmm.

Andrew Jansen (16:58.616)
Yeah, I still have, we have 900 clothes pins instead of a thousand. we're still looking to get rid of some of those clothes pins. But I think it'll work out well because it's gonna be a smaller group. We're not gonna have 250 students that are running around like crazy. So we're gonna have them sign up. I have a list of all of-

Nick Clason (17:18.456)
Yeah.

Andrew Jansen (17:27.008)
I know these students because they're my students. So I'm going to have like some options and a set chunk of time where they can really, you know, get after it and assassinate their friends with clothespins.

Nick Clason (17:30.402)
That helps, yeah.

Nick Clason (17:35.884)
Yeah. Yeah.

Now, is this a game that you could envision happening? Like if someone wanted to do this over like the course of like a week long summer camp, let's say like a three, four, five day summer camp. Can it last that long? Do you think or does it need to be like a quicker spur?

Andrew Jansen (17:51.33)
Mm-hmm.

Andrew Jansen (17:59.001)
I think the more time you have, the better it can go because then you can be a little bit more methodical. People can get into it. I've seen people army crawl through like cafeteria chairs to like get there like is here's another hack for the game. Make sure you let them know what parts of the body are allowed to get assassinated or not because obviously we don't want

Nick Clason (18:02.008)
Okay.

Nick Clason (18:10.13)
Hehe.

Nick Clason (18:14.059)
Mm-hmm.

Nick Clason (18:28.238)
Probably good, yeah.

Andrew Jansen (18:29.036)
to, yeah, we don't want to have a horrible situation with some clothes pins or whatever you're using. Definitely the rubber band game needed that. I saw kids like army crawling through cafeteria chairs to like slowly go get their friends like shirt sleeve because it was throughout the week instead of just that like five or six hours over the weekend of the conference where they could play. So I think it lasts for sure. At least two days.

Nick Clason (18:36.895)
Yeah.

Nick Clason (18:47.032)
Yeah.

Nick Clason (18:51.629)
Yeah.

Nick Clason (18:55.894)
Yeah. So then on like a game, so then on like a gameplay side, like if you, like if you assassinate someone, you get their clothes pin. So you're only at any given moment. You're only carrying around one, right? Like you don't, you don't walk around with like a big handful of clothes pins at any moment. So that way, cause you, bring it back to like home base or whatever to let someone know like this person's out.

Andrew Jansen (19:15.734)
No. Yep.

Andrew Jansen (19:22.978)
Yeah, and that lets the person that's doing the sign up and has that list allows them to kind of see like, okay, this person's making their way through all of these people. And you kind of can tell like, okay, and you know, if somebody loses a pin, you have a better chance of going, that was this person. They lost their pin at this point and you can just write the next person's name and give them that pin.

Nick Clason (19:32.226)
Yeah.

Nick Clason (19:47.052)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay, nice. All right, anything else that someone who's trying to do this needs to think through or that you learned seeing it be done?

Andrew Jansen (20:01.362)
For sure. I would say the two quick things that we didn't really touch on is clear boundaries, like out of bounds, when they can and cannot assassinate somebody is really important. Obviously, hearing about Jesus and praising Jesus through worship music takes precedent over the praising Jesus through fun. I mean, it's still praising Jesus. It's just a different

Nick Clason (20:09.132)
Mm.

Nick Clason (20:23.266)
The game, yeah. Yeah.

Andrew Jansen (20:28.268)
way that we're doing that and we want to have Jesus be the main thing. So making sure that they're not assassinating each other during small group time, praise and worship time, or any of the main session type times is important. So let them know like, hey, we're only doing this during free time, lunchtime, game time, whatever. And have like, I would say have like lights out if you're at a camp for a week. Like, hey, once it's lights out, would.

Nick Clason (20:38.231)
Yeah.

Andrew Jansen (20:56.972)
That's just, you're asking for trouble. Like, Hey, why were you in the girls dorm? I was trying to get her like, no, like that's we're not playing at night time. So I would say that would be one. And then making sure like the, out of bounds, like, Hey, we're not, you're not going to be off camp property. You're not going to be off church property. No, you cannot get on the roof. No, you cannot crawl through the drainage pipes and like all of those usual things. Like what can I like,

Nick Clason (20:57.09)
Yeah.

Nick Clason (21:02.917)
Yeah

Andrew Jansen (21:24.16)
latch on underneath the church van and then crawl onto the windshield and like I'm like no what you're gonna die that thing that's don't do that. They get really into it so making sure that you you kind of have those you know outlines of like what the boundaries are for both like physical where they can play the game and then also the times in which they play the game.

Nick Clason (21:29.102)
Yeah.

Nick Clason (21:44.364)
Right. Yeah, that's good. It's Nice. And you mentioned that you're going to play this at your lock-in, most any now, how many years have you been youth ministry again, Andrew? So most youth pastors who have at least hit the 10 year mark in youth ministry are team anti lock-in, but for some incredibly weird reason, your team pro lock-in.

Andrew Jansen (21:52.769)
Yes.

Andrew Jansen (21:59.513)
Ten years.

Andrew Jansen (22:13.342)
I am pro. Pro lock-in. Yes.

Nick Clason (22:13.492)
And so, yeah. So as I said at the beginning, you have a completely free lock-in guide planning sheet down below. If any one of you is insane enough to do a lock-in like Andrew, this can help you. I will not be a customer of this sheet, but I will let other people know that it exists.

Andrew Jansen (22:23.17)
Yes.

Andrew Jansen (22:38.434)
For sure. Yeah. And it, it's just everything that I've learned over the years. I love lock-ins. we did lock-ins at, in our youth group growing up, think almost every year are I'm from Wichita, Kansas. And we had a big like Wichita area citywide lock-in with hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of students that would, sign up for all of this crazy stuff. So, this is just all the stuff that I've learned kind of, some hacks, both attending a lock-in, putting on a lock-in.

Nick Clason (22:57.901)
Yeah.

Andrew Jansen (23:08.188)
And I've added some things to it over the years. So yeah, if anybody has any questions, they can email me or reach out to you and you can give them my info or whatever. But it's really helpful.

Nick Clason (23:11.948)
Yeah.

Nick Clason (23:22.156)
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. All right, man. Well, yeah, dude, go for it. Give a give a little bit. Give a give like a sneak peek.

Andrew Jansen (23:26.232)
Do you want me to talk about it or is that good? For sure. A sneak peek. one of the...

Nick Clason (23:35.47)
But don't give it all away, because we still want them to go get it, you know what I mean? So like, make it a big old teaser, like cliffhanger, of ultimate proportions.

Andrew Jansen (23:39.764)
Absolutely. For sure.

So first of all, shout out to my wife for making it look super amazing and incredible because honestly, yeah, she's amazing. I wish that I would hire her tomorrow if that were possible.

Nick Clason (23:49.112)
Dude, your wife is, this shirt right here, your wife designed. Yeah.

Yeah, she...

Yeah, but she works for you for free, so why would you do that?

Andrew Jansen (24:02.082)
That's true. It's not for free. do. I have to like rubber feet and like get her food and take, make sure she's locked in on all that stuff. speaking of lock-ins, the, the number one hack from my lock-in survival guide, and this is an exhaustive or, perfect in any way, there's definitely stuff that can be added to it. But I would say that at the end of the night, I always start with, or end with a movie after cleanup.

Nick Clason (24:06.286)
there you go. Yeah.

Nick Clason (24:30.582)
Yeah. Yeah.

Andrew Jansen (24:31.692)
Because once you clean up, you get through all of the things, you're exhausted, you're tired. Hey everybody, it's time to clean up. And then by 5 a.m., 6 a.m., whenever you're winding down the final hours of a lock-in where your body is running on Monster Energy Drink and Tylenol mostly, then you can really let them say they're gonna watch the whole movie and they will probably fall asleep.

So you cut out quite a bit of lock in time where it's still like you give your leaders a break. You can get breakfast stuff ready to go if you want to do breakfast, but always do clean up, everybody clean up. And then we're going to go watch a movie. And that really helps. It's still fun. There's still those crazy kids that are like, I just drink four Mountain Dew Code Reds. How am going to sit still during this movie? And they're still like able to have something engaging, but most of the kids will nap and parents will show up and it's just a win.

Nick Clason (25:01.728)
Yeah.

Nick Clason (25:28.75)
Bro, a code red doesn't even touch like your level of tiredness at 5 a.m. if you haven't slept. Like I don't care how wired up on sugar you are. And then there's always those kids, right, that it's over. like, I watched the whole thing. It's like, no you didn't, bro. You were snoring logs over there. Yeah, yeah.

Andrew Jansen (25:37.095)
yeah.

Andrew Jansen (25:44.886)
Yep, yeah. How did you watch the whole thing where you were completely submerged under chairs and blanket and pillow? yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Nick Clason (25:51.03)
What's that drool next to your face? What's that from? Is that from your code red? Yeah, no, I've done that before. I have done lock-ins, to be clear. I always end with the movie as well. It's the best way to just calm everybody down and just get to the finish line. That's what that's called. It's called survive and advance onto the finish line. Nice, dude. Well, hey.

Andrew Jansen (26:04.682)
Mm-hmm. yeah.

Andrew Jansen (26:12.514)
survive in advance. I love it.

Nick Clason (26:16.726)
I appreciate you hopping on. If you're listening, like go grab Andrew's Locket Guide, play Assassin, let us know, let him know if you did it and what other hacks you might have down below in the comments. until next time, my friends, thanks for being here. See ya.

]]> Episode 144: How I Recruit Awesome Youth Volunteers that Stick https://www.hybridministry.xyz/144 374542ec-2ab7-46f0-b63a-8655f78e99ad Thu, 10 Apr 2025 05:00:00 -0500 Nick Clason 144 How I Recruit Awesome Youth Volunteers that Stick full Nick Clason In this episode, Nick sits down with one of his best friends, and also, boss, and they discuss volunteer, not only recruiting, but also how to create such a strong volunteer team that volunteers would never choose to leave your team. Be sure to stick around for the surprising strategy that actually keeps volunteers on the team longer! 36:30 no In this episode, Nick sits down with one of his best friends, and also, boss, and they discuss volunteer, not only recruiting, but also how to create such a strong volunteer team that volunteers would never choose to leave your team. Be sure to stick around for the surprising strategy that actually keeps volunteers on the team longer! πŸ“Š [FREE] HYBRID STRATEGY GUIDE https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/free-hybrid-ministry-e-book βœ… CHURCH COMMUNICATIONS DONE FOR YOU https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/comms SHOW NOTES Shownotes & Transcripts https://www.hybridministry.xyz/144 LINKS EVERYONE’S CALLED TO YOUTH MINISTRY, THEY JUST DON’T KNOW IT YET https://www.leadertreks.org/product/everyones-called-to-youth-ministry/?srsltid=AfmBOopjL0EcxJ7aqwuXWiyd0z77tkUIsMPqfIA4dgVOHCPIIdNg32GE //CONNECT WITH DARREN https://www.facebook.com/darrensutton.mi https://www.instagram.com/veteranyp/ πŸ‘‰ STAY CONNECTED WITH NICK YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@clasonnick Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hybridministry/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@clasonnick Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HybridMinistry Website: https://www.hybridministry.xyz -------------- πŸŽ‰ FREE STUFF πŸŽ‰ We have all kinds of FREE Things that you can use in your context! The best way to pay us back is a review or a YouTube Subscribe! https://www.linktr.ee/clasonnick -------------- πŸ› οΈTOOLS I USE THAT CAN HELP YOU! Some of the below links are affilate links in which we do recieve a small commission based on your purchase or use of products VIDIQ https://vidiq.com/hybrid BEST DYM RESOURCES https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/dym OPUS.PRO FOR AI SHORTS & REELS https://www.opus.pro/?via=a5d361 //YOUTUBE STARTER KIT FOR UNDER $100 https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/youtubestarterkit -------------- πŸ•°οΈTIMECODES 00:00 Meet My Boss & Friend, Darren Sutton 01:02 35 Years in 35 Seconds 04:10 Shocking Bar Raising Leader Strategy 05:33 What if Leaders Don’t Respond? 07:56 Start Recruiting Leaders from Scratch 19:33 How do you keep good leaders? 21:57 Conducting Leader Debriefs 25:45 A Complete List of Roles 31:20 Final Encouragement -------------- TRANSCRIPT Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (00:01.036) We've recorded so many podcasts together. I don't even know how I feel like we're supposed to Well, everyone here we are. I am with my boss, Darren Sutton, who has his youth ministry till I die shirt on, which I was wearing yesterday. So I'm glad that we coordinated this. But I wanted to get on here and I've been working for Darren now for five years, two different places. Darren Sutton (00:04.982) Welcome back. Darren Sutton (00:20.691) Thank you. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (00:29.72) And aside from having written a book, I would also say practically speaking, Darren has a lot to say about volunteers. But Darren, first, tell us a brief overview. Distill your 35-year youth ministry journey down to 35 seconds. But why in that did volunteers become such a thing for you? Darren Sutton (00:53.484) Yeah, I don't know if I can say that in 35 seconds, but I will say this. I was pretty much the Lone Ranger youth pastor who would just grab chaperones when I was absolutely desperate for adults to be in the room or whatever. I would have adults lead Bible study classes and go to summer camp with me and the stuff where you know you can't do everything, so you have them there. But I didn't realize the... extent of needing people to carry the mission forward and to lean into their own calling until I was about maybe 10 years in and we were having our yeah we were having our third baby and my lead volunteer was like I can't do this and you need you need more people you're not doing this right so my wife basically was like listen you're you are Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (01:32.354) Did something happen? Darren Sutton (01:48.29) fantastic and you have lots of adult leaders, but you're not equipping them for ministry. You're just having them hold down the pieces that you can't hold down and they have more to offer than that. And you're not, you're not giving them, you know, the runway to do that. And that changed everything. It totally transformed my whole philosophy about why we use volunteers and how we keep them and why that matters. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (01:57.676) Mmm. Mmm. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (02:03.98) Yeah. Yeah. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (02:16.982) Okay, so yeah, so like I would imagine that, you know, average youth pastor listening is like, you know, they have that mentality, right? The volunteers are a necessary like evil, I don't wanna say, you know, but like they just, know they have to have them. There you go. They're a necessary component, but maybe like, maybe they don't even know what to do with them. Darren Sutton (02:36.088) Component. Let's go with component. They're necessary component. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (02:46.028) You know what mean? like that, would imagine maybe some of that was your story too. Like maybe control a little bit, but also like, what do I even do with these guys? So yeah, so how did you, before we dive into kind of the recruiting conversation, how did you mentally release yourself and be able to trust that you could actually hand off like meaningful things to said volunteer? Darren Sutton (02:53.294) You worked for me, you know part of it was control. Darren Sutton (03:13.89) Yeah, great question. This, I mean, you know, this is gonna sound like a no brainer, but 25 years ago it wasn't. I started writing job descriptions and I just sat down and said, okay, if I was handing off deeper parts of this, or if the people who were already serving were gonna own it the way I wanted them to. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (03:23.96) Mm. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (03:35.0) Yeah. Darren Sutton (03:37.58) What did I want that to look like? Like, what did I want them to do? Part of the struggle is that I wasn't recruiting them to anything other than filling the spot and hanging out with kids. And so if I wanted them to be at football games and, you know, choir performances, and if I wanted them to be writing cards to kids who weren't there, and if I wanted them to be reaching out to parents on the regular and all that, I needed to spell that out, and I hadn't done that. And so I was doing all that part, and they were just showing up. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (03:46.978) Mm-hmm. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (04:01.261) Mm. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (04:05.622) Yeah. Darren Sutton (04:05.866) And as soon as I kind of raised the bar and said, here's what I really need you to be doing in this role. If you love Jesus and love students and you want to make an eternal impact, it looks like this. It changed everything. So job descriptions were my number one thing. And again, that sounds a little bit like a no brainer now, I think for a lot of people, but we weren't doing that back then. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (04:25.962) Yeah. So and then they did they did race to the challenge, right? Were you nervous that they wouldn't or couldn't or didn't have the time to or was there any of that? Darren Sutton (04:31.902) yeah. Yeah. Darren Sutton (04:37.71) You know, I don't remember being nervous about it as much as I was just, was at a point in my ministry and in my family life where I was like, they have to do this. You know, so it never dawned on me, I think, and also young and arrogant. Like it never dawned on me that anybody would say, I don't want to do that. And to their credit, nobody did. Like everybody rose to the challenge. And I really think that Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (04:56.802) Sure. Darren Sutton (05:07.32) we sell the body of Christ, not volunteers, they're the body. We sell the body short when we assume that they won't invest more. Give them a chance to show you that, right? And if they do, then you know, like they might be better suited for a different role in your ministry, but this role with the job description as it's written, they're just not good for that. And it also gives you a great entry point for a conversation when you do need a leader to level up. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (05:18.348) Hmm. Yeah, that's good. Darren Sutton (05:37.078) to say like, listen, here's what we signed on for. Help me understand what's a struggle for you in this. Because it seems like these components aren't happening. And I'm just wondering, is that because you're unsure of what to do? Is that because you don't want to do that? You've had bad success with it? Like, help, teach me. Teach me what this, you know, where the holes are here. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (05:41.944) Hmm Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (05:56.672) Mm, yeah. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (06:00.844) But then you have, like you said, have teeth, right, a little bit to go back if volunteer's not performing and there's nothing more awkward than trying to fire someone who's not getting paid. So. Darren Sutton (06:04.152) Yeah. Darren Sutton (06:10.798) I'm sure. Helping them find their fit in the body of Christ. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (06:17.46) Yep. So, okay, so aside from, you know, someone just buying your book, which is linked down below in the description, obviously. Darren Sutton (06:25.514) hey, thanks. I don't even know if I have a link to my book. Yeah, probably. Maybe the three people who bought it are done with it. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (06:27.956) Yeah, well, we'll scrounge it up. It's on eBay or something. What? So if you're if someone's just, know, regular old youth pastor and they're like, just like, OK, I hear you. Yeah, I'm doing too much. I'm spinning my wheels. Job description, maybe step one. Step two. Let's talk recruiting like because you. you may not even have any leaders to write a job description for. So help someone start. Just rattle off the best recruiting strategies, methods, ideas, and I'll take notes for our own ministry as we're trying to also recruit some people. Darren Sutton (07:00.908) Yeah. Darren Sutton (07:08.172) Yeah. because there are always holes. Well, where I started was I'm not a big fan of cattle calls from the pulpit or anything like that. Yeah, that's a struggle. Yeah, or you don't get anybody because nobody listens during announcements. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (07:21.686) Yeah, the youth need volunteers. You're gonna get weirdos. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (07:29.047) Yeah. Well, it's a plural you, right? So it's like, you all interested? And so the individual you assumes one of the other ones is gonna take it and they're off the hook. Darren Sutton (07:36.118) Yes, exactly. So let me tell you guys, so here's what I did, Nick. Like I, you're right. The individual ask is everything. And I don't mean a fly by, you know, I don't mean a fly by conversation in the hallway on your way to the bathroom. I mean a sit down, real talk. but it takes a minute to get to that, right? Especially if you don't know everybody in our current context, the student ministry is literally a across a creek from the rest of the building and so. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (08:07.372) Yeah. It's one of the most distant locations I've ever served and I would imagine the same for you. So us being a part of the rest of the life of the church, we have to be incredibly intentional to overcome that for sure. Darren Sutton (08:16.588) Yeah, for sure. Darren Sutton (08:22.27) Exactly. And that's true everywhere, especially if your facility or the space that you occupy is siloed from the rest of the church. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (08:31.372) Yeah, because it's great to have the youth space, but that their inherent challenge of that is you're in the youth space and not, yeah. Darren Sutton (08:37.132) Yeah, it's a youth space. Yeah, it's a youth space. So if you're not a youth, you're not in it. So, yeah, the first thing I did was I went to my senior pastor and said, our students need more visibility. And, you know, in in that church, like where this whole philosophy of how I handle volunteers was born, my space was was attached, but it was up and to the back on a second floor in the far corner of the property. Right. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (08:50.253) Mm. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (09:06.06) Yeah, so was separated. Darren Sutton (09:07.362) Yeah, exactly. Like you would see kids coming down from the upstairs and be like, my gosh, I'm glad I'm not serving up there. And that was it. So we started using students to take the offering, serve communion, do greeting. And I just, you know, kind of poached a dozen of my highest capacity students and said, let's help the church understand why youth ministry matters. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (09:13.334) Right? Yeah, yeah. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (09:31.405) Mm. Darren Sutton (09:31.854) And that didn't require them to be on the platform. We did have some on the platform. We had some students doing worship. We would occasionally do a youth night or youth day at church where students would speak and, or I would speak and all of that. starting there was actually the most critical, I think, the most critical component because people started seeing teenagers. And it's a little bit like, you know, trying to acclimate people to wild animals. Like you got to get them a little bit close while they're in a cage and then you stick a little, you stick your hand in the cage and then you're in the cage, you know? And so that was the start of it. Also helping my senior pastor catch the vision that student ministry is not babysitting. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (10:07.682) Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (10:18.04) Yeah, how do, can you talk about that for just a quick second? how do, I would imagine, you someone might be listening and they're like, oh yeah, I love that, but I'm either A, getting or I'm anticipating that I would get pushback. How do you lead up in that? Darren Sutton (10:32.994) Well, if you're anticipating, stop doing that. Like give them a chance to say, you're a babysitter. But also I think storytelling is the most critical component. We had this kid come in, let me tell you this story about this student who shared their faith at school and not necessarily about what student ministry is doing in the building, but what student ministry is doing outside of the building. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (10:35.992) That's good, yeah. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (10:41.105) Heh. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (10:51.405) Hmm. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (10:59.608) That's good. Darren Sutton (11:00.908) you know, was super helpful. It also helped that I had a very open senior pastor. You know what? I didn't turn my phone off. Sorry, Nick. You probably couldn't hear that, but I could. Okay, sorry. Are you editing this? I'm assuming you edit. All right, I'm gonna go back then. It didn't hurt that I had just a really open senior pastor. I think he hired me with the babysitting mindset, but it didn't take him long to see that student mystery could be way more than that. So I was fortunate in that way. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (11:11.224) That's good. No, I heard it. It was great. It was a great sound. I mean, I will, yeah. Yeah, okay. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (11:34.548) Mm. Yeah, that's good. Darren Sutton (11:36.3) So once we had students kind of operating around the building, it made it way easier for me to go up to randos and say, hey, so and so told me you'd be great. Or I'm gonna out myself with some really shallow things. I'm just gonna say. So if we were in worship and I saw folks who I felt like were truly connecting with worship. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (11:52.856) lol Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (12:04.663) Yeah. Darren Sutton (12:05.132) That mattered to me, not because we had a worship ministry, but because I felt like those people were intentionally trying to connect with the heart of God when we were doing, you know, church. And so I just started introducing myself and doing a slow kind of a slow ask. Some might call it chess, where I would, I know you would, you know, where I would just go introduce myself. I'm a student pastor. Hey, just, you know, Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (12:07.703) Yeah. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (12:12.354) Hmm. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (12:24.472) I would call it chest. Darren Sutton (12:32.429) appreciated your investment in church today or whatever. And then a of weeks later, I asked them how they were doing. Like I would start trying to build a relationship knowing that my end game, which didn't always work out, but my end game was to get them involved in students. The Lord might've had a different end game and sometimes he did, but I did that. I made sure that this was easier. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (12:57.282) So this is everyone's permission to keep your eyes open during worship. Darren Sutton (13:01.228) Yeah, 100 % 100%. And you know, not to say that hands raised means anything because it doesn't, but I looked at people and went, look, their hands up. They're volunteering. Another thing that was again, a little easier in the context I was in, I got involved in a in a connect group and a life group Sunday school class, whatever your know, whatever your church calls it. And while Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (13:07.884) Yeah, yeah. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (13:11.584) you Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (13:22.614) Yeah, A D group. I wanted to keep rattling them off but my brain went completely dead. Darren Sutton (13:31.534) While that didn't, I wasn't necessarily pulling people from that group. That group of all kind of young parents, it was early in our ministry, like they were the movers and shakers in our church. And so they were talking up the student ministry. I was able to talk it up in my small group. And then the last thing I did was done a little bit because I... Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (13:47.949) Yeah. Darren Sutton (13:59.936) you know, because I just felt stubborn about it. We had a set of senior adults in our church who were fantastic. I mean, you know, they did everything. They did all the serving. We had a Wednesday night meal. This is a long time ago. We a Wednesday night meal and they cooked the meal and they ran the kitchen and they just did everything. And I intentionally started developing relationships with those ladies. and started trying to get them involved in doing some things. And I have always kind of felt like senior adults make some really great student ministers. And so I was intentionally going after them and there was a lady, her name was Belle. Belle was a little bit of your typical cranky church lady. And I said something about, you know, being involved in student ministry or whatever. And she was like, I'll never work with students. And I just went. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (14:35.028) Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. Darren Sutton (14:55.148) before I die, you will, whatever it takes. And so a little bit, I would target people, I think that way. don't, target's probably not the right word, but I would just, I would set my sight on somebody that I really wanted and I just kind of wouldn't let it go. Didn't harass. Sometimes that took a long time. It took me maybe like three-ish or four years before I finally got Bell to start something in students. And by the time we were, Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (15:04.152) lol Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (15:09.089) Yeah. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (15:22.861) Yeah. Darren Sutton (15:24.84) She was all in like she was hosting D nows at her house and you know all kinds of stuff. So I just think that it is not being afraid to ask, making sure that your students are visible so that people know that teenagers don't bite. They're not scary and then not counting anybody out. I mean from from 21 we are our age range started at 21. We wanted to give kids some separation from student ministry, but from 21 to death. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (15:28.258) Yeah. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (15:36.482) Mm-hmm. Darren Sutton (15:54.208) It didn't matter who you were, parent, not a parent, old lady, college student. Like we would go after everybody and did. just never, I never met a person that I didn't think was called. And you know, my dad, yeah, I think there was a book title and a full philosophy. And I just wouldn't, I mean, I took no for an answer. I didn't try to get people to serve who didn't really didn't want to. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (15:54.242) Yeah. Yeah. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (16:02.476) Yeah, that's good. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (16:08.29) Some might say there's a book title in that. Darren Sutton (16:23.148) but I wouldn't take no as the first answer. So Belle said no and I was like, well, will you make sandwiches for Wednesday night? We didn't need sandwiches for Wednesday night. We already have Wednesday night supper, but she did it. You know what I'm saying? She started there. And then I would get some of those key students and say, hey, you guys make sure and thank Ms. Belle for these sandwiches. so, you know. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (16:33.431) Yeah. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (16:43.032) Well, and I think there's a, probably a principle in there of like, if you only ever like recruit to the need, then when the need is great, then your anxiety is high because you have like a lot of, a lot of need and a lot of holes to fill. But if you're always have your eye on this sort of like recruiting or onboarding mindset, even if you are onboarding them and there's nowhere to put them, like it's better. Darren Sutton (17:10.733) Yeah. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (17:12.044) to have an overabundance, a wealth of riches, than to just be like, well, I'm fully staffed, quote unquote, right now. But in a few months you might not be, and then again, you're like, man, I'm failing again. So I think the good principle is for anyone in youth ministry who feels like they're struggling with volunteers, just start asking people and keep asking them. Darren Sutton (17:14.091) percent. Darren Sutton (17:35.852) never, it didn't matter how full I was, I never told somebody no. And in that church specifically, and in several of my churches, like I would have every spot full and I would be creating roles because I just wanted to make sure that people who wanted to be involved in the next generation could be. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (17:40.087) Yeah. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (17:47.928) Mm. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (17:54.7) Yeah. Darren Sutton (17:54.894) And I tried really hard to not enlist them to a position, but to enlist them to a vision, to a purpose and what their life could mean, even if all they were doing is making sandwiches. And sometimes that's what it was, right? I don't have a spot for this person, but hey, could you go shopping for me on Tuesday? I would find things for them to do so I didn't have to tell them no. Because you might be fully staffed today and tomorrow, you know, Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (18:02.102) Mm. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (18:10.828) Yeah. Yeah. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (18:20.342) Yeah. Darren Sutton (18:24.848) your leader has a parent who has to move in with them and their whole life changes and they need to step out. So I never counted on being fully staffed. And when I was fully staffed, I felt like I was always kind of back filling with the people who were the next to step in. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (18:41.58) Yeah. So that's a flex, being fully staffed or being so staffed that you have volunteers that you're just like making stuff up. So that leads to like, in my opinion, the next sort of like big bucket of this conversation is like, how do you, how do you keep good leaders so that they don't dip out on you? Darren Sutton (18:51.255) Yeah. Darren Sutton (19:03.405) Yeah. Yeah, 100%. You know, I think this just happened because a little bit it's my personality bit. I wasn't being intentional about this. I just felt like, you know, as I knew that volunteers were important and that part of my job was shepherding them and it wasn't just about hanging out with the kids and you know, all of that. So I was very... Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (19:15.512) You Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (19:26.306) Right. Darren Sutton (19:32.066) what's the right word? Pastoral is the only word I can think of. I knew my job was to shepherd them. It wasn't just to enlist them and get them sitting in front of teenagers, it was to help them along. So, you know, I... Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (19:39.159) Yeah. Darren Sutton (19:48.148) I'm pretty good at sending notes of appreciation and not generic notes. Hey, I saw you talking to this kid. Hey, I heard a parent say this about you. Hey, you know, so that they would know that what they were doing was being seen. And I think that's a piece of it. know, gift cards go a long way, even if it's five bucks to Starbucks, because we all know five bucks isn't going to buy anything at Starbucks. But it's not that it's not that it is. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (20:01.826) yeah Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (20:15.625) Mm-hmm. Darren Sutton (20:15.936) it is noticing them that matters, right? I was a little bit of a bulldog, absolutely insistent on leader training. Not necessarily to make them better, but to make them better, but more to build community among our leaders so that they didn't want to leave. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (20:24.971) Hmm. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (20:33.048) Mm. Darren Sutton (20:36.91) Often volunteers who serve in students sacrifice a community group of some sort in order to serve so they don't have that. And a lot of times when they don't have that or they don't sense the feel of community, they'll dip so they can go be in their own Sunday school class or, you know, life group or whatever it is. And so I even though we weren't that we weren't doing Bible studies together every week, I wanted them to feel like, man, if something happens, my student Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (20:43.052) Mm-hmm. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (20:55.607) Yeah. Darren Sutton (21:07.044) team has my back and so and you know this because you work with me I'm pretty intentional still to this day about making sure that those leader training times are as much about building community and connection as they are about becoming a better you know volunteer. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (21:08.152) Mm. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (21:19.544) Mm-hmm. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (21:23.041) Yeah, for sure. Darren Sutton (21:24.416) And then I'm a big fan of not recruiting people until death. So we actually recruit to a cycle. So we're gonna ask you to step in here and we're gonna ask you to go until this point. And then if you wanna step out, we'll embrace you and be sad when you go, most of you. You you occasionally have that one leader where that ending date really helps you. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (21:37.536) Mm-hmm. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (21:43.606) Yeah. Darren Sutton (21:49.966) what you said earlier, like kind of helps you fire somebody. Like, hey, it's coming to the end of your term, thanks so much. Like, here's a Sunday school class for you to go to, you know, whatever. But largely, it was an opportunity for me to be more mindful and intentional about recruiting division. So if they didn't hear it any other time, once a year in the kind of re-recruiting phase, Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (21:53.431) Yeah. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (21:56.856) Yeah Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (22:07.233) Mm-hmm. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (22:16.823) Yeah. Darren Sutton (22:17.33) They were going to be reminded of what they were doing. It was an opportunity for me to say, tell me, tell me what to struggle. What? How can I help you? Do you still love this role? Is there another role that you've seen other people performing in that you would like to try out? Would you so they don't feel like, hey man, if I say yes to leading this, you know, home group, I'm going to be leading it until I die. Yeah, exactly. You know. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (22:26.295) Mm-hmm. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (22:31.894) Yeah. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (22:38.018) I'm stuck for life, yeah. But I think that might give some youth pastors listening hives, because they're already feeling strapped with leaders, and then they get good ones and they're like, wait, you give them an end date? And the irony in that is that doing that, again, I won't put words in your mouth, but doing that helps them feel like seen and appreciated and that you value them. so rather than them leaving at the end of the term, Darren Sutton (22:55.148) Yeah. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (23:11.562) they like immediately re-up and come back. Darren Sutton (23:13.612) Yeah, yeah. And the truth is when you're when you have equipped them well, they know what their mission is. They feel supported by their community. They don't want to leave. We we in all kinds of different ways for the last 25 years, I've tried to give my volunteers breaks, whether that was a bucket of time like, hey, everybody's off in the summer and we'll take care of it. Or, know, what we currently do is Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (23:32.311) Mm. Darren Sutton (23:40.672) a day off about every six-ish weeks where we just say to our volunteers, don't come, the student ministry's got it, students got it, you know, whatever. Giving them those moments basically to come up for air helps them stay in the water a lot longer. So yeah, we do give an end date, but I have only had a few people take advantage of that. And when they have, it's never been because they didn't want to do student ministry anymore. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (23:44.343) Yeah. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (23:54.413) Yeah. Hmm. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (24:09.89) Right. Darren Sutton (24:10.228) It's always been because my life circumstances have changed and I need a break. And, you know, the other piece of that that is helpful is when life circumstances do change, most of them won't dip until they get to that end date. And so even though their trauma, you know, whatever it was, their job change, their, you know, sickness, their parents or kids or whatever happened in November. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (24:15.074) Yeah. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (24:34.367) Mm. Yeah. Darren Sutton (24:39.63) They know they committed until June 1st and they're going to say occasionally, occasionally, you know, to be a good pastor, you're going to say, listen, I know your life is upside down right now. Uh, just go ahead and step out. Like let's take a break. And then you're going to bring in, you know, somebody who's on the bench, who's been begging to be involved, who you've got in a, you know, maybe a less influential position, but who's ready to step up. Yeah. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (24:41.666) and they'll still ride it out. Yeah, that's good. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (24:49.409) Yeah. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (24:52.78) Yeah. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (25:03.35) Yeah, so real quick before we leave, let's just make a big list of volunteer roles that are a little bit, because I think, again, Average Joe, Normal Youth Pastor, Normal Youth Ministry in America, every volunteer that they have is to lead discussion, small group, school, whatever you want to call it with students. Darren Sutton (25:29.134) Yeah, for sure. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (25:31.064) But there's a million other things and some people don't want to do that. Like we have a guy on our team right now who's awesome. He's like, I don't want to lead a Bible study, but he loves teenagers. He's like fun at heart. You know, like he's, he's the type of guy you'd want on your team, but he, he felt disqualified because he's like, I'm not equipped for that slash don't want to do it. And so like, to your point, there's a million things you can do. can make sandwiches. So what are some over the years, you're 35. Darren Sutton (25:53.112) Right. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (26:00.28) plus years of experience. What are some of the different roles that you've had created, invented? Like give us some of the funniest best ones you got. Darren Sutton (26:09.102) Oh, I don't know. I have some that you couldn't do anymore. You know, I mean, I love that the, you're just going to show up at their like, you don't, you don't have to lead a Bible study, but I want you to show up at every single basketball game this kid has, you know, as just kind of a, you know, a big brother figure. You know, we had a lot of over the years had different Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (26:12.024) Yeah, yeah, yeah. Share those two from the the crypt. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (26:29.464) Mm. Darren Sutton (26:39.53) spots had a lot of rec space. and so, you know, listen, I don't want you to do anything except play basketball. That's all you have to do. Play basketball and talk to students. you know, we also had the proverbial like set up chairs and, you know, come in and create, you know, new student, new student guest kits and, know, that kind of stuff. Probably the funniest one that we had was, in one church that I was in. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (26:41.816) Mm-hmm. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (26:48.534) I love that job. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (27:00.684) Yeah. Yeah. Darren Sutton (27:09.224) our student center was a kind of refabbed pavilion on the back of an acre and a half plot. So the church was at the front right and the student ministry area was at the back left and no lights, barely electricity. We threw up fake walls. We had window units kind of shoved in the corner and you know, as janky as it could be. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (27:16.578) Okay. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (27:23.755) Yeah. Darren Sutton (27:38.478) and so every week we would have fire ants that were building in the building, right? Like building these nests in the building. So we had our, our guy who would come in and kill the fire ants every week, and sweep it all out. That was his only job. Like he didn't want to hang out with students and all that, but he felt like that was a contribution he can make. had people in that same church, like one of the ways that we Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (27:53.046) You Darren Sutton (28:05.814) kind of lighted the path in the middle of the night to that back area where with tiki torches. And so we had folks who would come in and, you know, light the tiki torches and sweep the pathway off and, you know, that kind of thing. So those were kind of unique. We had for a time, folks who would be, you know, kind of the bus run, except in their vehicles, we, don't do that anymore. Just generally for ministry safe purposes, but Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (28:10.359) Yeah. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (28:28.941) Right. Darren Sutton (28:31.822) Their only job was to pick kids up and drive them back and forth to church. They didn't stay in the youth ministry. didn't, but we gave them like in that job description, here are some questions you can be asking when kids get in your car to get the conversation going and you know, make sure you meet the parents and you know, things like that to help them be a little bit more invested in real life with kids. Had some volunteers whose main job was to reach out to parents. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (28:37.016) Yeah. Darren Sutton (28:59.886) and make sure that, you know, hey, we know parenting teenagers is tough. Is there anything the student ministry can do for you? That was their only job to just keep a list of parents would love this. Parents would need that. And they pass that over to me and I'd figure out what we could do and you know, what was a really stupid idea we had to throw away. So some stuff like that. Once, you know, this one is selfish, but was important. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (29:07.672) Hmm. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (29:18.136) Yeah, nice. keep going. Darren Sutton (29:27.694) uh, more important than I realized, I think at the time, uh, I enlisted somebody to pay attention to my kids. Uh, your job is and not just mine, but in that, in that church, just mine. But if we were in our context, we're having multiple staff members, it would be staff kids. Uh, but I, I was like, you know, my kids sacrifice a lot for me to be in student ministry and they were not teenagers yet. They were, you know, I don't know, 11, nine and seven, they were young. I just said, can you Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (29:35.063) Uh-huh. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (29:42.646) Mm-hmm. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (29:53.708) Yeah. Yeah. Darren Sutton (29:56.792) Can you just notice my kids? Like they're here a lot. They sacrifice a lot for ministry. Their dad's a pastor and so I'm sure that they're they need adults who are not their pastor. You know as well and your your jobs to just notice my kids and they crushed that like our kids to this day feel like those people are their grandparents even more than their actual grandparents. So that's another one. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (30:02.263) Mm. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (30:10.028) Yeah. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (30:21.4) It's cool. Yeah, that's cool. Darren Sutton (30:25.21) You can come up with everything. Host homes and sandwich makers and so many ways to get people close enough to see what Jesus is doing without them having to lead a Bible study ever. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (30:27.832) . Yeah. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (30:37.335) Yeah. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (30:43.512) Yeah, that's good. So, okay, last thing. Talk to the youth pastor who's struggling, floundering, drowning. Find a word of encouragement about the importance of leaders and maybe just a basic for them next step. Hey, if you're gonna do anything, first thing to do is just do this. Don't feel overwhelmed by all of this. Maybe you don't have the... Capacity to get a fire ant guy yet. Okay, that's fine But speak speak to that speak to the guy who's just like man. don't leaders are killing like it's just the hardest, you know part of my job, whatever like Encourage them for a second Darren Sutton (31:22.712) Yeah. Well, let me just say first, it's not your job. That's not your job. That's the job of the Holy Spirit. And he's very clear in scripture that we all have a part to play. and that our job as pastors is to equip the saints for the work of service. Our job is not to make sure we have plenty of volunteers, not to make sure every hole gets filled. Our job is just to equip the people that the Holy Spirit brings. We can be more proactive in bringing them, but the Holy Spirit is the one who quickens their heart to be involved. So that's not your job. Your job isn't to convince them. Your job is to shepherd them and to give them an opportunity to step into what God is calling them to do. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (31:39.352) Mm-hmm. Darren Sutton (32:04.718) Don't take the whole burden on yourself. And I mean that in two ways. It's the Holy Spirit's job and also you have some people, you definitely have some people who care about student ministry who will help recruit for you. You utilize that, whether that's other staff members, folks that are currently on your volunteer team, a parent who just happens to take a particular interest in what's going on in student ministry. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (32:20.792) Mm. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (32:31.224) Teenagers. Darren Sutton (32:32.364) Yeah, for sure. 100 % ask a kid who they think would make a great youth leader. They'll have a list guaranteed. So. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (32:34.519) you Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (32:38.742) Yeah, yeah. I had a teenager one time go and list the head usher on his own. Yeah, I was like, well, I'll talk to him too. But it was great. Darren Sutton (32:44.891) Poach them from other ministries? I love it. That's fantastic. But just don't feel the burden that it's all on you and don't feel the burden that it all has to happen right now. For me, it was a slow, kind of a slow burn into that whole idea that volunteers could be more and I needed to ask them to do more and be more. That took time. And it's not a foolproof, like, Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (33:16.502) Yeah. Darren Sutton (33:21.322) I mean, we serving in church right now and across from this podcast, there's a big sheet on my door that lists every volunteer hole we have right now. And we have a lot. There's probably 20 people on there that we need to fill. So, you know, you're always going to have the need. You can't let the holes be what drives you. You've got to let the people who are in the room, you know, a little bit. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (33:31.384) Yeah. Yeah. Darren Sutton (33:47.384) be what drives you. So, and it's totally doable because Jesus wants those kids even more than you do. And he's gonna raise up the people that are needed to help get them where he needs them to be. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (33:48.984) That's good. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (34:01.304) Nice, that's good. All right, anything else? Did we get it all? Darren Sutton (34:05.312) Yeah, think we, I mean, I'm sure we didn't get it all, but we got, you got all I got. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (34:08.28) Well, that's a lot it's helpful so where do people find you Darren? Darren Sutton (34:18.03) listen, I'm everywhere. I'm, I'm almost like the Holy Spirit everywhere you are. am, I'm on all, I'm on all social stuff. if you're, yes. Well, actually I can't, you can't say that anymore. I deleted my account after it banned. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (34:22.039) Woo! That's scary. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (34:29.738) including band TikTok. If you'd like to send... It's back, it's back now. Darren Sutton (34:38.464) I know I'm trying to decide like, listen, I had so this whole podcast, I had so much time open up in my life that I'm like, maybe I don't want to, I'm not sure if I want to, if I want to take it back. But yeah, I mean, you know, Insta and Facebook and Twitter and you know, all that, I have a blog. everyone's called the youth ministry.com and, I'm not, you know, I have, I'm just like you. I'm an in the trenches youth pastor. So if you're looking for a regular, like, Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (34:42.712) You Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (34:56.856) Nice. We'll link it down below. Darren Sutton (35:08.184) podcast and a blog post. I don't do that. But I've been in this thing for a few minutes and I'm not planning on going anywhere. And so I love talking to you pastors. And if you ever need a guy who has made as many mistakes as you feel like you're making, you can reach out. Cause I got a whole list. Lots of stories. Yeah. Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (35:24.856) You There you go. That's big right there. All right. Well, hey, for Darren, this is Nick signing off. See you guys. Darren Sutton (35:33.944) Bye guys. youth ministry, volunteers, recruiting, engagement, church community, leadership, retention, job descriptions, ministry philosophy, volunteer management, youth ministry, volunteer management, community building, pastoral care, leadership training, youth pastor encouragement, diverse roles, volunteer appreciation, recruitment strategies, supporting volunteers In this episode, Nick sits down with one of his best friends, and also, boss, and they discuss volunteer, not only recruiting, but also how to create such a strong volunteer team that volunteers would never choose to leave your team. Be sure to stick around for the surprising strategy that actually keeps volunteers on the team longer!

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πŸ•°οΈTIMECODES
00:00 Meet My Boss & Friend, Darren Sutton
01:02 35 Years in 35 Seconds
04:10 Shocking Bar Raising Leader Strategy
05:33 What if Leaders Don’t Respond?
07:56 Start Recruiting Leaders from Scratch
19:33 How do you keep good leaders?
21:57 Conducting Leader Debriefs
25:45 A Complete List of Roles
31:20 Final Encouragement

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TRANSCRIPT
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (00:01.036)
We've recorded so many podcasts together. I don't even know how I feel like we're supposed to Well, everyone here we are. I am with my boss, Darren Sutton, who has his youth ministry till I die shirt on, which I was wearing yesterday. So I'm glad that we coordinated this. But I wanted to get on here and I've been working for Darren now for five years, two different places.

Darren Sutton (00:04.982)
Welcome back.

Darren Sutton (00:20.691)
Thank you.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (00:29.72)
And aside from having written a book, I would also say practically speaking, Darren has a lot to say about volunteers. But Darren, first, tell us a brief overview. Distill your 35-year youth ministry journey down to 35 seconds. But why in that did volunteers become such a thing for you?

Darren Sutton (00:53.484)
Yeah, I don't know if I can say that in 35 seconds, but I will say this. I was pretty much the Lone Ranger youth pastor who would just grab chaperones when I was absolutely desperate for adults to be in the room or whatever. I would have adults lead Bible study classes and go to summer camp with me and the stuff where you know you can't do everything, so you have them there. But I didn't realize the...

extent of needing people to carry the mission forward and to lean into their own calling until I was about maybe 10 years in and we were having our yeah we were having our third baby and my lead volunteer was like I can't do this and you need you need more people you're not doing this right so my wife basically was like listen you're you are

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (01:32.354)
Did something happen?

Darren Sutton (01:48.29)
fantastic and you have lots of adult leaders, but you're not equipping them for ministry. You're just having them hold down the pieces that you can't hold down and they have more to offer than that. And you're not, you're not giving them, you know, the runway to do that. And that changed everything. It totally transformed my whole philosophy about why we use volunteers and how we keep them and why that matters.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (01:57.676)
Mmm. Mmm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (02:03.98)
Yeah. Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (02:16.982)
Okay, so yeah, so like I would imagine that, you know, average youth pastor listening is like, you know, they have that mentality, right? The volunteers are a necessary like evil, I don't wanna say, you know, but like they just, know they have to have them. There you go. They're a necessary component, but maybe like, maybe they don't even know what to do with them.

Darren Sutton (02:36.088)
Component. Let's go with component. They're necessary component.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (02:46.028)
You know what mean? like that, would imagine maybe some of that was your story too. Like maybe control a little bit, but also like, what do I even do with these guys? So yeah, so how did you, before we dive into kind of the recruiting conversation, how did you mentally release yourself and be able to trust that you could actually hand off like meaningful things to said volunteer?

Darren Sutton (02:53.294)
You worked for me, you know part of it was control.

Darren Sutton (03:13.89)
Yeah, great question. This, I mean, you know, this is gonna sound like a no brainer, but 25 years ago it wasn't. I started writing job descriptions and I just sat down and said, okay, if I was handing off deeper parts of this, or if the people who were already serving were gonna own it the way I wanted them to.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (03:23.96)
Mm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (03:35.0)
Yeah.

Darren Sutton (03:37.58)
What did I want that to look like? Like, what did I want them to do? Part of the struggle is that I wasn't recruiting them to anything other than filling the spot and hanging out with kids. And so if I wanted them to be at football games and, you know, choir performances, and if I wanted them to be writing cards to kids who weren't there, and if I wanted them to be reaching out to parents on the regular and all that, I needed to spell that out, and I hadn't done that. And so I was doing all that part, and they were just showing up.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (03:46.978)
Mm-hmm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (04:01.261)
Mm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (04:05.622)
Yeah.

Darren Sutton (04:05.866)
And as soon as I kind of raised the bar and said, here's what I really need you to be doing in this role. If you love Jesus and love students and you want to make an eternal impact, it looks like this. It changed everything. So job descriptions were my number one thing. And again, that sounds a little bit like a no brainer now, I think for a lot of people, but we weren't doing that back then.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (04:25.962)
Yeah. So and then they did they did race to the challenge, right? Were you nervous that they wouldn't or couldn't or didn't have the time to or was there any of that?

Darren Sutton (04:31.902)
yeah. Yeah.

Darren Sutton (04:37.71)
You know, I don't remember being nervous about it as much as I was just, was at a point in my ministry and in my family life where I was like, they have to do this. You know, so it never dawned on me, I think, and also young and arrogant. Like it never dawned on me that anybody would say, I don't want to do that. And to their credit, nobody did. Like everybody rose to the challenge. And I really think that

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (04:56.802)
Sure.

Darren Sutton (05:07.32)
we sell the body of Christ, not volunteers, they're the body. We sell the body short when we assume that they won't invest more. Give them a chance to show you that, right? And if they do, then you know, like they might be better suited for a different role in your ministry, but this role with the job description as it's written, they're just not good for that. And it also gives you a great entry point for a conversation when you do need a leader to level up.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (05:18.348)
Hmm. Yeah, that's good.

Darren Sutton (05:37.078)
to say like, listen, here's what we signed on for. Help me understand what's a struggle for you in this. Because it seems like these components aren't happening. And I'm just wondering, is that because you're unsure of what to do? Is that because you don't want to do that? You've had bad success with it? Like, help, teach me. Teach me what this, you know, where the holes are here.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (05:41.944)
Hmm

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (05:56.672)
Mm, yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (06:00.844)
But then you have, like you said, have teeth, right, a little bit to go back if volunteer's not performing and there's nothing more awkward than trying to fire someone who's not getting paid. So.

Darren Sutton (06:04.152)
Yeah.

Darren Sutton (06:10.798)
I'm sure. Helping them find their fit in the body of Christ.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (06:17.46)
Yep. So, okay, so aside from, you know, someone just buying your book, which is linked down below in the description, obviously.

Darren Sutton (06:25.514)
hey, thanks. I don't even know if I have a link to my book. Yeah, probably. Maybe the three people who bought it are done with it.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (06:27.956)
Yeah, well, we'll scrounge it up. It's on eBay or something. What? So if you're if someone's just, know, regular old youth pastor and they're like, just like, OK, I hear you. Yeah, I'm doing too much. I'm spinning my wheels. Job description, maybe step one. Step two. Let's talk recruiting like because you.

you may not even have any leaders to write a job description for. So help someone start. Just rattle off the best recruiting strategies, methods, ideas, and I'll take notes for our own ministry as we're trying to also recruit some people.

Darren Sutton (07:00.908)
Yeah.

Darren Sutton (07:08.172)
Yeah.

because there are always holes. Well, where I started was I'm not a big fan of cattle calls from the pulpit or anything like that. Yeah, that's a struggle. Yeah, or you don't get anybody because nobody listens during announcements.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (07:21.686)
Yeah, the youth need volunteers. You're gonna get weirdos.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (07:29.047)
Yeah.

Well, it's a plural you, right? So it's like, you all interested? And so the individual you assumes one of the other ones is gonna take it and they're off the hook.

Darren Sutton (07:36.118)
Yes, exactly. So let me tell you guys, so here's what I did, Nick. Like I, you're right. The individual ask is everything. And I don't mean a fly by, you know, I don't mean a fly by conversation in the hallway on your way to the bathroom. I mean a sit down, real talk. but it takes a minute to get to that, right? Especially if you don't know everybody in our current context, the student ministry is literally a

across a creek from the rest of the building and so.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (08:07.372)
Yeah. It's one of the most distant locations I've ever served and I would imagine the same for you. So us being a part of the rest of the life of the church, we have to be incredibly intentional to overcome that for sure.

Darren Sutton (08:16.588)
Yeah, for sure.

Darren Sutton (08:22.27)
Exactly. And that's true everywhere, especially if your facility or the space that you occupy is siloed from the rest of the church.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (08:31.372)
Yeah, because it's great to have the youth space, but that their inherent challenge of that is you're in the youth space and not, yeah.

Darren Sutton (08:37.132)
Yeah, it's a youth space. Yeah, it's a youth space. So if you're not a youth, you're not in it. So, yeah, the first thing I did was I went to my senior pastor and said, our students need more visibility. And, you know, in in that church, like where this whole philosophy of how I handle volunteers was born, my space was was attached, but it was up and to the back on a second floor in the far corner of the property. Right.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (08:50.253)
Mm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (09:06.06)
Yeah, so was separated.

Darren Sutton (09:07.362)
Yeah, exactly. Like you would see kids coming down from the upstairs and be like, my gosh, I'm glad I'm not serving up there. And that was it. So we started using students to take the offering, serve communion, do greeting. And I just, you know, kind of poached a dozen of my highest capacity students and said, let's help the church understand why youth ministry matters.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (09:13.334)
Right? Yeah, yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (09:31.405)
Mm.

Darren Sutton (09:31.854)
And that didn't require them to be on the platform. We did have some on the platform. We had some students doing worship. We would occasionally do a youth night or youth day at church where students would speak and, or I would speak and all of that. starting there was actually the most critical, I think, the most critical component because people started seeing teenagers.

And it's a little bit like, you know, trying to acclimate people to wild animals. Like you got to get them a little bit close while they're in a cage and then you stick a little, you stick your hand in the cage and then you're in the cage, you know? And so that was the start of it. Also helping my senior pastor catch the vision that student ministry is not babysitting.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (10:07.682)
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (10:18.04)
Yeah, how do, can you talk about that for just a quick second? how do, I would imagine, you someone might be listening and they're like, oh yeah, I love that, but I'm either A, getting or I'm anticipating that I would get pushback. How do you lead up in that?

Darren Sutton (10:32.994)
Well, if you're anticipating, stop doing that. Like give them a chance to say, you're a babysitter. But also I think storytelling is the most critical component. We had this kid come in, let me tell you this story about this student who shared their faith at school and not necessarily about what student ministry is doing in the building, but what student ministry is doing outside of the building.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (10:35.992)
That's good, yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (10:41.105)
Heh.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (10:51.405)
Hmm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (10:59.608)
That's good.

Darren Sutton (11:00.908)
you know, was super helpful. It also helped that I had a very open senior pastor. You know what? I didn't turn my phone off.

Sorry, Nick. You probably couldn't hear that, but I could. Okay, sorry. Are you editing this? I'm assuming you edit. All right, I'm gonna go back then. It didn't hurt that I had just a really open senior pastor. I think he hired me with the babysitting mindset, but it didn't take him long to see that student mystery could be way more than that. So I was fortunate in that way.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (11:11.224)
That's good.

No, I heard it. It was great. It was a great sound.

I mean, I will, yeah. Yeah, okay.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (11:34.548)
Mm. Yeah, that's good.

Darren Sutton (11:36.3)
So once we had students kind of operating around the building, it made it way easier for me to go up to randos and say, hey, so and so told me you'd be great. Or I'm gonna out myself with some really shallow things. I'm just gonna say. So if we were in worship and I saw folks who I felt like were truly connecting with worship.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (11:52.856)
lol

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (12:04.663)
Yeah.

Darren Sutton (12:05.132)
That mattered to me, not because we had a worship ministry, but because I felt like those people were intentionally trying to connect with the heart of God when we were doing, you know, church. And so I just started introducing myself and doing a slow kind of a slow ask. Some might call it chess, where I would, I know you would, you know, where I would just go introduce myself. I'm a student pastor. Hey, just, you know,

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (12:07.703)
Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (12:12.354)
Hmm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (12:24.472)
I would call it chest.

Darren Sutton (12:32.429)
appreciated your investment in church today or whatever. And then a of weeks later, I asked them how they were doing. Like I would start trying to build a relationship knowing that my end game, which didn't always work out, but my end game was to get them involved in students. The Lord might've had a different end game and sometimes he did, but I did that. I made sure that this was easier.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (12:57.282)
So this is everyone's permission to keep your eyes open during worship.

Darren Sutton (13:01.228)
Yeah, 100 % 100%. And you know, not to say that hands raised means anything because it doesn't, but I looked at people and went, look, their hands up. They're volunteering. Another thing that was again, a little easier in the context I was in, I got involved in a in a connect group and a life group Sunday school class, whatever your know, whatever your church calls it. And while

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (13:07.884)
Yeah, yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (13:11.584)
you

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (13:22.614)
Yeah, A D group.

I wanted to keep rattling them off but my brain went completely dead.

Darren Sutton (13:31.534)
While that didn't, I wasn't necessarily pulling people from that group. That group of all kind of young parents, it was early in our ministry, like they were the movers and shakers in our church. And so they were talking up the student ministry. I was able to talk it up in my small group. And then the last thing I did was done a little bit because I...

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (13:47.949)
Yeah.

Darren Sutton (13:59.936)
you know, because I just felt stubborn about it. We had a set of senior adults in our church who were fantastic. I mean, you know, they did everything. They did all the serving. We had a Wednesday night meal. This is a long time ago. We a Wednesday night meal and they cooked the meal and they ran the kitchen and they just did everything. And I intentionally started developing relationships with those ladies.

and started trying to get them involved in doing some things. And I have always kind of felt like senior adults make some really great student ministers. And so I was intentionally going after them and there was a lady, her name was Belle. Belle was a little bit of your typical cranky church lady. And I said something about, you know, being involved in student ministry or whatever. And she was like, I'll never work with students. And I just went.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (14:35.028)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah.

Darren Sutton (14:55.148)
before I die, you will, whatever it takes. And so a little bit, I would target people, I think that way. don't, target's probably not the right word, but I would just, I would set my sight on somebody that I really wanted and I just kind of wouldn't let it go. Didn't harass. Sometimes that took a long time. It took me maybe like three-ish or four years before I finally got Bell to start something in students. And by the time we were,

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (15:04.152)
lol

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (15:09.089)
Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (15:22.861)
Yeah.

Darren Sutton (15:24.84)
She was all in like she was hosting D nows at her house and you know all kinds of stuff. So I just think that it is not being afraid to ask, making sure that your students are visible so that people know that teenagers don't bite. They're not scary and then not counting anybody out. I mean from from 21 we are our age range started at 21. We wanted to give kids some separation from student ministry, but from 21 to death.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (15:28.258)
Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (15:36.482)
Mm-hmm.

Darren Sutton (15:54.208)
It didn't matter who you were, parent, not a parent, old lady, college student. Like we would go after everybody and did. just never, I never met a person that I didn't think was called. And you know, my dad, yeah, I think there was a book title and a full philosophy. And I just wouldn't, I mean, I took no for an answer. I didn't try to get people to serve who didn't really didn't want to.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (15:54.242)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (16:02.476)
Yeah, that's good.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (16:08.29)
Some might say there's a book title in that.

Darren Sutton (16:23.148)
but I wouldn't take no as the first answer. So Belle said no and I was like, well, will you make sandwiches for Wednesday night? We didn't need sandwiches for Wednesday night. We already have Wednesday night supper, but she did it. You know what I'm saying? She started there. And then I would get some of those key students and say, hey, you guys make sure and thank Ms. Belle for these sandwiches. so, you know.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (16:33.431)
Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (16:43.032)
Well, and I think there's a, probably a principle in there of like, if you only ever like recruit to the need, then when the need is great, then your anxiety is high because you have like a lot of, a lot of need and a lot of holes to fill. But if you're always have your eye on this sort of like recruiting or onboarding mindset, even if you are onboarding them and there's nowhere to put them, like it's better.

Darren Sutton (17:10.733)
Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (17:12.044)
to have an overabundance, a wealth of riches, than to just be like, well, I'm fully staffed, quote unquote, right now. But in a few months you might not be, and then again, you're like, man, I'm failing again. So I think the good principle is for anyone in youth ministry who feels like they're struggling with volunteers, just start asking people and keep asking them.

Darren Sutton (17:14.091)
percent.

Darren Sutton (17:35.852)
never, it didn't matter how full I was, I never told somebody no. And in that church specifically, and in several of my churches, like I would have every spot full and I would be creating roles because I just wanted to make sure that people who wanted to be involved in the next generation could be.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (17:40.087)
Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (17:47.928)
Mm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (17:54.7)
Yeah.

Darren Sutton (17:54.894)
And I tried really hard to not enlist them to a position, but to enlist them to a vision, to a purpose and what their life could mean, even if all they were doing is making sandwiches. And sometimes that's what it was, right? I don't have a spot for this person, but hey, could you go shopping for me on Tuesday? I would find things for them to do so I didn't have to tell them no. Because you might be fully staffed today and tomorrow, you know,

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (18:02.102)
Mm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (18:10.828)
Yeah. Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (18:20.342)
Yeah.

Darren Sutton (18:24.848)
your leader has a parent who has to move in with them and their whole life changes and they need to step out. So I never counted on being fully staffed. And when I was fully staffed, I felt like I was always kind of back filling with the people who were the next to step in.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (18:41.58)
Yeah. So that's a flex, being fully staffed or being so staffed that you have volunteers that you're just like making stuff up. So that leads to like, in my opinion, the next sort of like big bucket of this conversation is like, how do you, how do you keep good leaders so that they don't dip out on you?

Darren Sutton (18:51.255)
Yeah.

Darren Sutton (19:03.405)
Yeah. Yeah, 100%. You know, I think this just happened because a little bit it's my personality bit. I wasn't being intentional about this. I just felt like, you know, as I knew that volunteers were important and that part of my job was shepherding them and it wasn't just about hanging out with the kids and you know, all of that. So I was very...

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (19:15.512)
You

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (19:26.306)
Right.

Darren Sutton (19:32.066)
what's the right word? Pastoral is the only word I can think of. I knew my job was to shepherd them. It wasn't just to enlist them and get them sitting in front of teenagers, it was to help them along. So, you know, I...

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (19:39.159)
Yeah.

Darren Sutton (19:48.148)
I'm pretty good at sending notes of appreciation and not generic notes. Hey, I saw you talking to this kid. Hey, I heard a parent say this about you. Hey, you know, so that they would know that what they were doing was being seen. And I think that's a piece of it. know, gift cards go a long way, even if it's five bucks to Starbucks, because we all know five bucks isn't going to buy anything at Starbucks. But it's not that it's not that it is.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (20:01.826)
yeah

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (20:15.625)
Mm-hmm.

Darren Sutton (20:15.936)
it is noticing them that matters, right? I was a little bit of a bulldog, absolutely insistent on leader training. Not necessarily to make them better, but to make them better, but more to build community among our leaders so that they didn't want to leave.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (20:24.971)
Hmm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (20:33.048)
Mm.

Darren Sutton (20:36.91)
Often volunteers who serve in students sacrifice a community group of some sort in order to serve so they don't have that. And a lot of times when they don't have that or they don't sense the feel of community, they'll dip so they can go be in their own Sunday school class or, you know, life group or whatever it is. And so I even though we weren't that we weren't doing Bible studies together every week, I wanted them to feel like, man, if something happens, my student

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (20:43.052)
Mm-hmm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (20:55.607)
Yeah.

Darren Sutton (21:07.044)
team has my back and so and you know this because you work with me I'm pretty intentional still to this day about making sure that those leader training times are as much about building community and connection as they are about becoming a better you know volunteer.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (21:08.152)
Mm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (21:19.544)
Mm-hmm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (21:23.041)
Yeah, for sure.

Darren Sutton (21:24.416)
And then I'm a big fan of not recruiting people until death. So we actually recruit to a cycle. So we're gonna ask you to step in here and we're gonna ask you to go until this point. And then if you wanna step out, we'll embrace you and be sad when you go, most of you. You you occasionally have that one leader where that ending date really helps you.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (21:37.536)
Mm-hmm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (21:43.606)
Yeah.

Darren Sutton (21:49.966)
what you said earlier, like kind of helps you fire somebody. Like, hey, it's coming to the end of your term, thanks so much. Like, here's a Sunday school class for you to go to, you know, whatever. But largely, it was an opportunity for me to be more mindful and intentional about recruiting division. So if they didn't hear it any other time, once a year in the kind of re-recruiting phase,

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (21:53.431)
Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (21:56.856)
Yeah

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (22:07.233)
Mm-hmm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (22:16.823)
Yeah.

Darren Sutton (22:17.33)
They were going to be reminded of what they were doing. It was an opportunity for me to say, tell me, tell me what to struggle. What? How can I help you? Do you still love this role? Is there another role that you've seen other people performing in that you would like to try out? Would you so they don't feel like, hey man, if I say yes to leading this, you know, home group, I'm going to be leading it until I die. Yeah, exactly. You know.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (22:26.295)
Mm-hmm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (22:31.894)
Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (22:38.018)
I'm stuck for life, yeah.

But I think that might give some youth pastors listening hives, because they're already feeling strapped with leaders, and then they get good ones and they're like, wait, you give them an end date? And the irony in that is that doing that, again, I won't put words in your mouth, but doing that helps them feel like seen and appreciated and that you value them. so rather than them leaving at the end of the term,

Darren Sutton (22:55.148)
Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (23:11.562)
they like immediately re-up and come back.

Darren Sutton (23:13.612)
Yeah, yeah. And the truth is when you're when you have equipped them well, they know what their mission is. They feel supported by their community. They don't want to leave. We we in all kinds of different ways for the last 25 years, I've tried to give my volunteers breaks, whether that was a bucket of time like, hey, everybody's off in the summer and we'll take care of it. Or, know, what we currently do is

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (23:32.311)
Mm.

Darren Sutton (23:40.672)
a day off about every six-ish weeks where we just say to our volunteers, don't come, the student ministry's got it, students got it, you know, whatever. Giving them those moments basically to come up for air helps them stay in the water a lot longer. So yeah, we do give an end date, but I have only had a few people take advantage of that. And when they have, it's never been because they didn't want to do student ministry anymore.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (23:44.343)
Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (23:54.413)
Yeah.

Hmm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (24:09.89)
Right.

Darren Sutton (24:10.228)
It's always been because my life circumstances have changed and I need a break. And, you know, the other piece of that that is helpful is when life circumstances do change, most of them won't dip until they get to that end date. And so even though their trauma, you know, whatever it was, their job change, their, you know, sickness, their parents or kids or whatever happened in November.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (24:15.074)
Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (24:34.367)
Mm. Yeah.

Darren Sutton (24:39.63)
They know they committed until June 1st and they're going to say occasionally, occasionally, you know, to be a good pastor, you're going to say, listen, I know your life is upside down right now. Uh, just go ahead and step out. Like let's take a break. And then you're going to bring in, you know, somebody who's on the bench, who's been begging to be involved, who you've got in a, you know, maybe a less influential position, but who's ready to step up. Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (24:41.666)
and they'll still ride it out. Yeah, that's good.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (24:49.409)
Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (24:52.78)
Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (25:03.35)
Yeah, so real quick before we leave, let's just make a big list of volunteer roles that are a little bit, because I think, again, Average Joe, Normal Youth Pastor, Normal Youth Ministry in America, every volunteer that they have is to lead discussion, small group, school, whatever you want to call it with students.

Darren Sutton (25:29.134)
Yeah, for sure.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (25:31.064)
But there's a million other things and some people don't want to do that. Like we have a guy on our team right now who's awesome. He's like, I don't want to lead a Bible study, but he loves teenagers. He's like fun at heart. You know, like he's, he's the type of guy you'd want on your team, but he, he felt disqualified because he's like, I'm not equipped for that slash don't want to do it. And so like, to your point, there's a million things you can do. can make sandwiches. So what are some over the years, you're 35.

Darren Sutton (25:53.112)
Right.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (26:00.28)
plus years of experience. What are some of the different roles that you've had created, invented? Like give us some of the funniest best ones you got.

Darren Sutton (26:09.102)
Oh, I don't know. I have some that you couldn't do anymore. You know, I mean, I love that the, you're just going to show up at their like, you don't, you don't have to lead a Bible study, but I want you to show up at every single basketball game this kid has, you know, as just kind of a, you know, a big brother figure. You know, we had a lot of over the years had different

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (26:12.024)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Share those two from the the crypt.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (26:29.464)
Mm.

Darren Sutton (26:39.53)
spots had a lot of rec space. and so, you know, listen, I don't want you to do anything except play basketball. That's all you have to do. Play basketball and talk to students. you know, we also had the proverbial like set up chairs and, you know, come in and create, you know, new student, new student guest kits and, know, that kind of stuff. Probably the funniest one that we had was, in one church that I was in.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (26:41.816)
Mm-hmm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (26:48.534)
I love that job.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (27:00.684)
Yeah. Yeah.

Darren Sutton (27:09.224)
our student center was a kind of refabbed pavilion on the back of an acre and a half plot. So the church was at the front right and the student ministry area was at the back left and no lights, barely electricity. We threw up fake walls. We had window units kind of shoved in the corner and you know, as janky as it could be.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (27:16.578)
Okay.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (27:23.755)
Yeah.

Darren Sutton (27:38.478)
and so every week we would have fire ants that were building in the building, right? Like building these nests in the building. So we had our, our guy who would come in and kill the fire ants every week, and sweep it all out. That was his only job. Like he didn't want to hang out with students and all that, but he felt like that was a contribution he can make. had people in that same church, like one of the ways that we

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (27:53.046)
You

Darren Sutton (28:05.814)
kind of lighted the path in the middle of the night to that back area where with tiki torches. And so we had folks who would come in and, you know, light the tiki torches and sweep the pathway off and, you know, that kind of thing. So those were kind of unique. We had for a time, folks who would be, you know, kind of the bus run, except in their vehicles, we, don't do that anymore. Just generally for ministry safe purposes, but

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (28:10.359)
Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (28:28.941)
Right.

Darren Sutton (28:31.822)
Their only job was to pick kids up and drive them back and forth to church. They didn't stay in the youth ministry. didn't, but we gave them like in that job description, here are some questions you can be asking when kids get in your car to get the conversation going and you know, make sure you meet the parents and you know, things like that to help them be a little bit more invested in real life with kids. Had some volunteers whose main job was to reach out to parents.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (28:37.016)
Yeah.

Darren Sutton (28:59.886)
and make sure that, you know, hey, we know parenting teenagers is tough. Is there anything the student ministry can do for you? That was their only job to just keep a list of parents would love this. Parents would need that. And they pass that over to me and I'd figure out what we could do and you know, what was a really stupid idea we had to throw away. So some stuff like that. Once, you know, this one is selfish, but was important.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (29:07.672)
Hmm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (29:18.136)
Yeah, nice. keep going.

Darren Sutton (29:27.694)
uh, more important than I realized, I think at the time, uh, I enlisted somebody to pay attention to my kids. Uh, your job is and not just mine, but in that, in that church, just mine. But if we were in our context, we're having multiple staff members, it would be staff kids. Uh, but I, I was like, you know, my kids sacrifice a lot for me to be in student ministry and they were not teenagers yet. They were, you know, I don't know, 11, nine and seven, they were young. I just said, can you

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (29:35.063)
Uh-huh.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (29:42.646)
Mm-hmm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (29:53.708)
Yeah. Yeah.

Darren Sutton (29:56.792)
Can you just notice my kids? Like they're here a lot. They sacrifice a lot for ministry. Their dad's a pastor and so I'm sure that they're they need adults who are not their pastor. You know as well and your your jobs to just notice my kids and they crushed that like our kids to this day feel like those people are their grandparents even more than their actual grandparents. So that's another one.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (30:02.263)
Mm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (30:10.028)
Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (30:21.4)
It's cool.

Yeah, that's cool.

Darren Sutton (30:25.21)
You can come up with everything. Host homes and sandwich makers and so many ways to get people close enough to see what Jesus is doing without them having to lead a Bible study ever.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (30:27.832)
.

Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (30:37.335)
Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (30:43.512)
Yeah, that's good. So, okay, last thing. Talk to the youth pastor who's struggling, floundering, drowning. Find a word of encouragement about the importance of leaders and maybe just a basic for them next step. Hey, if you're gonna do anything, first thing to do is just do this. Don't feel overwhelmed by all of this. Maybe you don't have the...

Capacity to get a fire ant guy yet. Okay, that's fine But speak speak to that speak to the guy who's just like man. don't leaders are killing like it's just the hardest, you know part of my job, whatever like Encourage them for a second

Darren Sutton (31:22.712)
Yeah. Well, let me just say first, it's not your job. That's not your job. That's the job of the Holy Spirit. And he's very clear in scripture that we all have a part to play.

and that our job as pastors is to equip the saints for the work of service. Our job is not to make sure we have plenty of volunteers, not to make sure every hole gets filled. Our job is just to equip the people that the Holy Spirit brings. We can be more proactive in bringing them, but the Holy Spirit is the one who quickens their heart to be involved. So that's not your job. Your job isn't to convince them. Your job is to shepherd them and to give them an opportunity to step into what God is calling them to do.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (31:39.352)
Mm-hmm.

Darren Sutton (32:04.718)
Don't take the whole burden on yourself. And I mean that in two ways. It's the Holy Spirit's job and also you have some people, you definitely have some people who care about student ministry who will help recruit for you. You utilize that, whether that's other staff members, folks that are currently on your volunteer team, a parent who just happens to take a particular interest in what's going on in student ministry.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (32:20.792)
Mm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (32:31.224)
Teenagers.

Darren Sutton (32:32.364)
Yeah, for sure. 100 % ask a kid who they think would make a great youth leader. They'll have a list guaranteed. So.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (32:34.519)
you

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (32:38.742)
Yeah, yeah. I had a teenager one time go and list the head usher on his own. Yeah, I was like, well, I'll talk to him too. But it was great.

Darren Sutton (32:44.891)
Poach them from other ministries? I love it.

That's fantastic. But just don't feel the burden that it's all on you and don't feel the burden that it all has to happen right now. For me, it was a slow, kind of a slow burn into that whole idea that volunteers could be more and I needed to ask them to do more and be more. That took time. And it's not a foolproof, like,

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (33:16.502)
Yeah.

Darren Sutton (33:21.322)
I mean, we serving in church right now and across from this podcast, there's a big sheet on my door that lists every volunteer hole we have right now. And we have a lot. There's probably 20 people on there that we need to fill. So, you know, you're always going to have the need. You can't let the holes be what drives you. You've got to let the people who are in the room, you know, a little bit.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (33:31.384)
Yeah. Yeah.

Darren Sutton (33:47.384)
be what drives you. So, and it's totally doable because Jesus wants those kids even more than you do. And he's gonna raise up the people that are needed to help get them where he needs them to be.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (33:48.984)
That's good.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (34:01.304)
Nice, that's good. All right, anything else? Did we get it all?

Darren Sutton (34:05.312)
Yeah, think we, I mean, I'm sure we didn't get it all, but we got, you got all I got.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (34:08.28)
Well, that's a lot it's helpful so where do people find you Darren?

Darren Sutton (34:18.03)
listen, I'm everywhere. I'm, I'm almost like the Holy Spirit everywhere you are. am, I'm on all, I'm on all social stuff. if you're, yes. Well, actually I can't, you can't say that anymore. I deleted my account after it banned.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (34:22.039)
Woo!

That's scary.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (34:29.738)
including band TikTok. If you'd like to send...

It's back, it's back now.

Darren Sutton (34:38.464)
I know I'm trying to decide like, listen, I had so this whole podcast, I had so much time open up in my life that I'm like, maybe I don't want to, I'm not sure if I want to, if I want to take it back. But yeah, I mean, you know, Insta and Facebook and Twitter and you know, all that, I have a blog. everyone's called the youth ministry.com and, I'm not, you know, I have, I'm just like you. I'm an in the trenches youth pastor. So if you're looking for a regular, like,

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (34:42.712)
You

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (34:56.856)
Nice. We'll link it down below.

Darren Sutton (35:08.184)
podcast and a blog post. I don't do that. But I've been in this thing for a few minutes and I'm not planning on going anywhere. And so I love talking to you pastors. And if you ever need a guy who has made as many mistakes as you feel like you're making, you can reach out. Cause I got a whole list. Lots of stories. Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (35:24.856)
You

There you go. That's big right there. All right. Well, hey, for Darren, this is Nick signing off. See you guys.

Darren Sutton (35:33.944)
Bye guys.

]]> In this episode, Nick sits down with one of his best friends, and also, boss, and they discuss volunteer, not only recruiting, but also how to create such a strong volunteer team that volunteers would never choose to leave your team. Be sure to stick around for the surprising strategy that actually keeps volunteers on the team longer!

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LINKS
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πŸ•°οΈTIMECODES
00:00 Meet My Boss & Friend, Darren Sutton
01:02 35 Years in 35 Seconds
04:10 Shocking Bar Raising Leader Strategy
05:33 What if Leaders Don’t Respond?
07:56 Start Recruiting Leaders from Scratch
19:33 How do you keep good leaders?
21:57 Conducting Leader Debriefs
25:45 A Complete List of Roles
31:20 Final Encouragement

--------------
TRANSCRIPT
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (00:01.036)
We've recorded so many podcasts together. I don't even know how I feel like we're supposed to Well, everyone here we are. I am with my boss, Darren Sutton, who has his youth ministry till I die shirt on, which I was wearing yesterday. So I'm glad that we coordinated this. But I wanted to get on here and I've been working for Darren now for five years, two different places.

Darren Sutton (00:04.982)
Welcome back.

Darren Sutton (00:20.691)
Thank you.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (00:29.72)
And aside from having written a book, I would also say practically speaking, Darren has a lot to say about volunteers. But Darren, first, tell us a brief overview. Distill your 35-year youth ministry journey down to 35 seconds. But why in that did volunteers become such a thing for you?

Darren Sutton (00:53.484)
Yeah, I don't know if I can say that in 35 seconds, but I will say this. I was pretty much the Lone Ranger youth pastor who would just grab chaperones when I was absolutely desperate for adults to be in the room or whatever. I would have adults lead Bible study classes and go to summer camp with me and the stuff where you know you can't do everything, so you have them there. But I didn't realize the...

extent of needing people to carry the mission forward and to lean into their own calling until I was about maybe 10 years in and we were having our yeah we were having our third baby and my lead volunteer was like I can't do this and you need you need more people you're not doing this right so my wife basically was like listen you're you are

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (01:32.354)
Did something happen?

Darren Sutton (01:48.29)
fantastic and you have lots of adult leaders, but you're not equipping them for ministry. You're just having them hold down the pieces that you can't hold down and they have more to offer than that. And you're not, you're not giving them, you know, the runway to do that. And that changed everything. It totally transformed my whole philosophy about why we use volunteers and how we keep them and why that matters.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (01:57.676)
Mmm. Mmm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (02:03.98)
Yeah. Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (02:16.982)
Okay, so yeah, so like I would imagine that, you know, average youth pastor listening is like, you know, they have that mentality, right? The volunteers are a necessary like evil, I don't wanna say, you know, but like they just, know they have to have them. There you go. They're a necessary component, but maybe like, maybe they don't even know what to do with them.

Darren Sutton (02:36.088)
Component. Let's go with component. They're necessary component.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (02:46.028)
You know what mean? like that, would imagine maybe some of that was your story too. Like maybe control a little bit, but also like, what do I even do with these guys? So yeah, so how did you, before we dive into kind of the recruiting conversation, how did you mentally release yourself and be able to trust that you could actually hand off like meaningful things to said volunteer?

Darren Sutton (02:53.294)
You worked for me, you know part of it was control.

Darren Sutton (03:13.89)
Yeah, great question. This, I mean, you know, this is gonna sound like a no brainer, but 25 years ago it wasn't. I started writing job descriptions and I just sat down and said, okay, if I was handing off deeper parts of this, or if the people who were already serving were gonna own it the way I wanted them to.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (03:23.96)
Mm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (03:35.0)
Yeah.

Darren Sutton (03:37.58)
What did I want that to look like? Like, what did I want them to do? Part of the struggle is that I wasn't recruiting them to anything other than filling the spot and hanging out with kids. And so if I wanted them to be at football games and, you know, choir performances, and if I wanted them to be writing cards to kids who weren't there, and if I wanted them to be reaching out to parents on the regular and all that, I needed to spell that out, and I hadn't done that. And so I was doing all that part, and they were just showing up.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (03:46.978)
Mm-hmm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (04:01.261)
Mm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (04:05.622)
Yeah.

Darren Sutton (04:05.866)
And as soon as I kind of raised the bar and said, here's what I really need you to be doing in this role. If you love Jesus and love students and you want to make an eternal impact, it looks like this. It changed everything. So job descriptions were my number one thing. And again, that sounds a little bit like a no brainer now, I think for a lot of people, but we weren't doing that back then.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (04:25.962)
Yeah. So and then they did they did race to the challenge, right? Were you nervous that they wouldn't or couldn't or didn't have the time to or was there any of that?

Darren Sutton (04:31.902)
yeah. Yeah.

Darren Sutton (04:37.71)
You know, I don't remember being nervous about it as much as I was just, was at a point in my ministry and in my family life where I was like, they have to do this. You know, so it never dawned on me, I think, and also young and arrogant. Like it never dawned on me that anybody would say, I don't want to do that. And to their credit, nobody did. Like everybody rose to the challenge. And I really think that

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (04:56.802)
Sure.

Darren Sutton (05:07.32)
we sell the body of Christ, not volunteers, they're the body. We sell the body short when we assume that they won't invest more. Give them a chance to show you that, right? And if they do, then you know, like they might be better suited for a different role in your ministry, but this role with the job description as it's written, they're just not good for that. And it also gives you a great entry point for a conversation when you do need a leader to level up.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (05:18.348)
Hmm. Yeah, that's good.

Darren Sutton (05:37.078)
to say like, listen, here's what we signed on for. Help me understand what's a struggle for you in this. Because it seems like these components aren't happening. And I'm just wondering, is that because you're unsure of what to do? Is that because you don't want to do that? You've had bad success with it? Like, help, teach me. Teach me what this, you know, where the holes are here.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (05:41.944)
Hmm

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (05:56.672)
Mm, yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (06:00.844)
But then you have, like you said, have teeth, right, a little bit to go back if volunteer's not performing and there's nothing more awkward than trying to fire someone who's not getting paid. So.

Darren Sutton (06:04.152)
Yeah.

Darren Sutton (06:10.798)
I'm sure. Helping them find their fit in the body of Christ.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (06:17.46)
Yep. So, okay, so aside from, you know, someone just buying your book, which is linked down below in the description, obviously.

Darren Sutton (06:25.514)
hey, thanks. I don't even know if I have a link to my book. Yeah, probably. Maybe the three people who bought it are done with it.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (06:27.956)
Yeah, well, we'll scrounge it up. It's on eBay or something. What? So if you're if someone's just, know, regular old youth pastor and they're like, just like, OK, I hear you. Yeah, I'm doing too much. I'm spinning my wheels. Job description, maybe step one. Step two. Let's talk recruiting like because you.

you may not even have any leaders to write a job description for. So help someone start. Just rattle off the best recruiting strategies, methods, ideas, and I'll take notes for our own ministry as we're trying to also recruit some people.

Darren Sutton (07:00.908)
Yeah.

Darren Sutton (07:08.172)
Yeah.

because there are always holes. Well, where I started was I'm not a big fan of cattle calls from the pulpit or anything like that. Yeah, that's a struggle. Yeah, or you don't get anybody because nobody listens during announcements.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (07:21.686)
Yeah, the youth need volunteers. You're gonna get weirdos.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (07:29.047)
Yeah.

Well, it's a plural you, right? So it's like, you all interested? And so the individual you assumes one of the other ones is gonna take it and they're off the hook.

Darren Sutton (07:36.118)
Yes, exactly. So let me tell you guys, so here's what I did, Nick. Like I, you're right. The individual ask is everything. And I don't mean a fly by, you know, I don't mean a fly by conversation in the hallway on your way to the bathroom. I mean a sit down, real talk. but it takes a minute to get to that, right? Especially if you don't know everybody in our current context, the student ministry is literally a

across a creek from the rest of the building and so.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (08:07.372)
Yeah. It's one of the most distant locations I've ever served and I would imagine the same for you. So us being a part of the rest of the life of the church, we have to be incredibly intentional to overcome that for sure.

Darren Sutton (08:16.588)
Yeah, for sure.

Darren Sutton (08:22.27)
Exactly. And that's true everywhere, especially if your facility or the space that you occupy is siloed from the rest of the church.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (08:31.372)
Yeah, because it's great to have the youth space, but that their inherent challenge of that is you're in the youth space and not, yeah.

Darren Sutton (08:37.132)
Yeah, it's a youth space. Yeah, it's a youth space. So if you're not a youth, you're not in it. So, yeah, the first thing I did was I went to my senior pastor and said, our students need more visibility. And, you know, in in that church, like where this whole philosophy of how I handle volunteers was born, my space was was attached, but it was up and to the back on a second floor in the far corner of the property. Right.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (08:50.253)
Mm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (09:06.06)
Yeah, so was separated.

Darren Sutton (09:07.362)
Yeah, exactly. Like you would see kids coming down from the upstairs and be like, my gosh, I'm glad I'm not serving up there. And that was it. So we started using students to take the offering, serve communion, do greeting. And I just, you know, kind of poached a dozen of my highest capacity students and said, let's help the church understand why youth ministry matters.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (09:13.334)
Right? Yeah, yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (09:31.405)
Mm.

Darren Sutton (09:31.854)
And that didn't require them to be on the platform. We did have some on the platform. We had some students doing worship. We would occasionally do a youth night or youth day at church where students would speak and, or I would speak and all of that. starting there was actually the most critical, I think, the most critical component because people started seeing teenagers.

And it's a little bit like, you know, trying to acclimate people to wild animals. Like you got to get them a little bit close while they're in a cage and then you stick a little, you stick your hand in the cage and then you're in the cage, you know? And so that was the start of it. Also helping my senior pastor catch the vision that student ministry is not babysitting.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (10:07.682)
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (10:18.04)
Yeah, how do, can you talk about that for just a quick second? how do, I would imagine, you someone might be listening and they're like, oh yeah, I love that, but I'm either A, getting or I'm anticipating that I would get pushback. How do you lead up in that?

Darren Sutton (10:32.994)
Well, if you're anticipating, stop doing that. Like give them a chance to say, you're a babysitter. But also I think storytelling is the most critical component. We had this kid come in, let me tell you this story about this student who shared their faith at school and not necessarily about what student ministry is doing in the building, but what student ministry is doing outside of the building.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (10:35.992)
That's good, yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (10:41.105)
Heh.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (10:51.405)
Hmm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (10:59.608)
That's good.

Darren Sutton (11:00.908)
you know, was super helpful. It also helped that I had a very open senior pastor. You know what? I didn't turn my phone off.

Sorry, Nick. You probably couldn't hear that, but I could. Okay, sorry. Are you editing this? I'm assuming you edit. All right, I'm gonna go back then. It didn't hurt that I had just a really open senior pastor. I think he hired me with the babysitting mindset, but it didn't take him long to see that student mystery could be way more than that. So I was fortunate in that way.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (11:11.224)
That's good.

No, I heard it. It was great. It was a great sound.

I mean, I will, yeah. Yeah, okay.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (11:34.548)
Mm. Yeah, that's good.

Darren Sutton (11:36.3)
So once we had students kind of operating around the building, it made it way easier for me to go up to randos and say, hey, so and so told me you'd be great. Or I'm gonna out myself with some really shallow things. I'm just gonna say. So if we were in worship and I saw folks who I felt like were truly connecting with worship.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (11:52.856)
lol

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (12:04.663)
Yeah.

Darren Sutton (12:05.132)
That mattered to me, not because we had a worship ministry, but because I felt like those people were intentionally trying to connect with the heart of God when we were doing, you know, church. And so I just started introducing myself and doing a slow kind of a slow ask. Some might call it chess, where I would, I know you would, you know, where I would just go introduce myself. I'm a student pastor. Hey, just, you know,

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (12:07.703)
Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (12:12.354)
Hmm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (12:24.472)
I would call it chest.

Darren Sutton (12:32.429)
appreciated your investment in church today or whatever. And then a of weeks later, I asked them how they were doing. Like I would start trying to build a relationship knowing that my end game, which didn't always work out, but my end game was to get them involved in students. The Lord might've had a different end game and sometimes he did, but I did that. I made sure that this was easier.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (12:57.282)
So this is everyone's permission to keep your eyes open during worship.

Darren Sutton (13:01.228)
Yeah, 100 % 100%. And you know, not to say that hands raised means anything because it doesn't, but I looked at people and went, look, their hands up. They're volunteering. Another thing that was again, a little easier in the context I was in, I got involved in a in a connect group and a life group Sunday school class, whatever your know, whatever your church calls it. And while

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (13:07.884)
Yeah, yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (13:11.584)
you

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (13:22.614)
Yeah, A D group.

I wanted to keep rattling them off but my brain went completely dead.

Darren Sutton (13:31.534)
While that didn't, I wasn't necessarily pulling people from that group. That group of all kind of young parents, it was early in our ministry, like they were the movers and shakers in our church. And so they were talking up the student ministry. I was able to talk it up in my small group. And then the last thing I did was done a little bit because I...

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (13:47.949)
Yeah.

Darren Sutton (13:59.936)
you know, because I just felt stubborn about it. We had a set of senior adults in our church who were fantastic. I mean, you know, they did everything. They did all the serving. We had a Wednesday night meal. This is a long time ago. We a Wednesday night meal and they cooked the meal and they ran the kitchen and they just did everything. And I intentionally started developing relationships with those ladies.

and started trying to get them involved in doing some things. And I have always kind of felt like senior adults make some really great student ministers. And so I was intentionally going after them and there was a lady, her name was Belle. Belle was a little bit of your typical cranky church lady. And I said something about, you know, being involved in student ministry or whatever. And she was like, I'll never work with students. And I just went.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (14:35.028)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah.

Darren Sutton (14:55.148)
before I die, you will, whatever it takes. And so a little bit, I would target people, I think that way. don't, target's probably not the right word, but I would just, I would set my sight on somebody that I really wanted and I just kind of wouldn't let it go. Didn't harass. Sometimes that took a long time. It took me maybe like three-ish or four years before I finally got Bell to start something in students. And by the time we were,

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (15:04.152)
lol

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (15:09.089)
Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (15:22.861)
Yeah.

Darren Sutton (15:24.84)
She was all in like she was hosting D nows at her house and you know all kinds of stuff. So I just think that it is not being afraid to ask, making sure that your students are visible so that people know that teenagers don't bite. They're not scary and then not counting anybody out. I mean from from 21 we are our age range started at 21. We wanted to give kids some separation from student ministry, but from 21 to death.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (15:28.258)
Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (15:36.482)
Mm-hmm.

Darren Sutton (15:54.208)
It didn't matter who you were, parent, not a parent, old lady, college student. Like we would go after everybody and did. just never, I never met a person that I didn't think was called. And you know, my dad, yeah, I think there was a book title and a full philosophy. And I just wouldn't, I mean, I took no for an answer. I didn't try to get people to serve who didn't really didn't want to.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (15:54.242)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (16:02.476)
Yeah, that's good.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (16:08.29)
Some might say there's a book title in that.

Darren Sutton (16:23.148)
but I wouldn't take no as the first answer. So Belle said no and I was like, well, will you make sandwiches for Wednesday night? We didn't need sandwiches for Wednesday night. We already have Wednesday night supper, but she did it. You know what I'm saying? She started there. And then I would get some of those key students and say, hey, you guys make sure and thank Ms. Belle for these sandwiches. so, you know.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (16:33.431)
Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (16:43.032)
Well, and I think there's a, probably a principle in there of like, if you only ever like recruit to the need, then when the need is great, then your anxiety is high because you have like a lot of, a lot of need and a lot of holes to fill. But if you're always have your eye on this sort of like recruiting or onboarding mindset, even if you are onboarding them and there's nowhere to put them, like it's better.

Darren Sutton (17:10.733)
Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (17:12.044)
to have an overabundance, a wealth of riches, than to just be like, well, I'm fully staffed, quote unquote, right now. But in a few months you might not be, and then again, you're like, man, I'm failing again. So I think the good principle is for anyone in youth ministry who feels like they're struggling with volunteers, just start asking people and keep asking them.

Darren Sutton (17:14.091)
percent.

Darren Sutton (17:35.852)
never, it didn't matter how full I was, I never told somebody no. And in that church specifically, and in several of my churches, like I would have every spot full and I would be creating roles because I just wanted to make sure that people who wanted to be involved in the next generation could be.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (17:40.087)
Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (17:47.928)
Mm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (17:54.7)
Yeah.

Darren Sutton (17:54.894)
And I tried really hard to not enlist them to a position, but to enlist them to a vision, to a purpose and what their life could mean, even if all they were doing is making sandwiches. And sometimes that's what it was, right? I don't have a spot for this person, but hey, could you go shopping for me on Tuesday? I would find things for them to do so I didn't have to tell them no. Because you might be fully staffed today and tomorrow, you know,

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (18:02.102)
Mm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (18:10.828)
Yeah. Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (18:20.342)
Yeah.

Darren Sutton (18:24.848)
your leader has a parent who has to move in with them and their whole life changes and they need to step out. So I never counted on being fully staffed. And when I was fully staffed, I felt like I was always kind of back filling with the people who were the next to step in.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (18:41.58)
Yeah. So that's a flex, being fully staffed or being so staffed that you have volunteers that you're just like making stuff up. So that leads to like, in my opinion, the next sort of like big bucket of this conversation is like, how do you, how do you keep good leaders so that they don't dip out on you?

Darren Sutton (18:51.255)
Yeah.

Darren Sutton (19:03.405)
Yeah. Yeah, 100%. You know, I think this just happened because a little bit it's my personality bit. I wasn't being intentional about this. I just felt like, you know, as I knew that volunteers were important and that part of my job was shepherding them and it wasn't just about hanging out with the kids and you know, all of that. So I was very...

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (19:15.512)
You

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (19:26.306)
Right.

Darren Sutton (19:32.066)
what's the right word? Pastoral is the only word I can think of. I knew my job was to shepherd them. It wasn't just to enlist them and get them sitting in front of teenagers, it was to help them along. So, you know, I...

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (19:39.159)
Yeah.

Darren Sutton (19:48.148)
I'm pretty good at sending notes of appreciation and not generic notes. Hey, I saw you talking to this kid. Hey, I heard a parent say this about you. Hey, you know, so that they would know that what they were doing was being seen. And I think that's a piece of it. know, gift cards go a long way, even if it's five bucks to Starbucks, because we all know five bucks isn't going to buy anything at Starbucks. But it's not that it's not that it is.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (20:01.826)
yeah

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (20:15.625)
Mm-hmm.

Darren Sutton (20:15.936)
it is noticing them that matters, right? I was a little bit of a bulldog, absolutely insistent on leader training. Not necessarily to make them better, but to make them better, but more to build community among our leaders so that they didn't want to leave.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (20:24.971)
Hmm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (20:33.048)
Mm.

Darren Sutton (20:36.91)
Often volunteers who serve in students sacrifice a community group of some sort in order to serve so they don't have that. And a lot of times when they don't have that or they don't sense the feel of community, they'll dip so they can go be in their own Sunday school class or, you know, life group or whatever it is. And so I even though we weren't that we weren't doing Bible studies together every week, I wanted them to feel like, man, if something happens, my student

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (20:43.052)
Mm-hmm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (20:55.607)
Yeah.

Darren Sutton (21:07.044)
team has my back and so and you know this because you work with me I'm pretty intentional still to this day about making sure that those leader training times are as much about building community and connection as they are about becoming a better you know volunteer.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (21:08.152)
Mm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (21:19.544)
Mm-hmm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (21:23.041)
Yeah, for sure.

Darren Sutton (21:24.416)
And then I'm a big fan of not recruiting people until death. So we actually recruit to a cycle. So we're gonna ask you to step in here and we're gonna ask you to go until this point. And then if you wanna step out, we'll embrace you and be sad when you go, most of you. You you occasionally have that one leader where that ending date really helps you.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (21:37.536)
Mm-hmm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (21:43.606)
Yeah.

Darren Sutton (21:49.966)
what you said earlier, like kind of helps you fire somebody. Like, hey, it's coming to the end of your term, thanks so much. Like, here's a Sunday school class for you to go to, you know, whatever. But largely, it was an opportunity for me to be more mindful and intentional about recruiting division. So if they didn't hear it any other time, once a year in the kind of re-recruiting phase,

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (21:53.431)
Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (21:56.856)
Yeah

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (22:07.233)
Mm-hmm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (22:16.823)
Yeah.

Darren Sutton (22:17.33)
They were going to be reminded of what they were doing. It was an opportunity for me to say, tell me, tell me what to struggle. What? How can I help you? Do you still love this role? Is there another role that you've seen other people performing in that you would like to try out? Would you so they don't feel like, hey man, if I say yes to leading this, you know, home group, I'm going to be leading it until I die. Yeah, exactly. You know.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (22:26.295)
Mm-hmm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (22:31.894)
Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (22:38.018)
I'm stuck for life, yeah.

But I think that might give some youth pastors listening hives, because they're already feeling strapped with leaders, and then they get good ones and they're like, wait, you give them an end date? And the irony in that is that doing that, again, I won't put words in your mouth, but doing that helps them feel like seen and appreciated and that you value them. so rather than them leaving at the end of the term,

Darren Sutton (22:55.148)
Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (23:11.562)
they like immediately re-up and come back.

Darren Sutton (23:13.612)
Yeah, yeah. And the truth is when you're when you have equipped them well, they know what their mission is. They feel supported by their community. They don't want to leave. We we in all kinds of different ways for the last 25 years, I've tried to give my volunteers breaks, whether that was a bucket of time like, hey, everybody's off in the summer and we'll take care of it. Or, know, what we currently do is

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (23:32.311)
Mm.

Darren Sutton (23:40.672)
a day off about every six-ish weeks where we just say to our volunteers, don't come, the student ministry's got it, students got it, you know, whatever. Giving them those moments basically to come up for air helps them stay in the water a lot longer. So yeah, we do give an end date, but I have only had a few people take advantage of that. And when they have, it's never been because they didn't want to do student ministry anymore.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (23:44.343)
Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (23:54.413)
Yeah.

Hmm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (24:09.89)
Right.

Darren Sutton (24:10.228)
It's always been because my life circumstances have changed and I need a break. And, you know, the other piece of that that is helpful is when life circumstances do change, most of them won't dip until they get to that end date. And so even though their trauma, you know, whatever it was, their job change, their, you know, sickness, their parents or kids or whatever happened in November.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (24:15.074)
Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (24:34.367)
Mm. Yeah.

Darren Sutton (24:39.63)
They know they committed until June 1st and they're going to say occasionally, occasionally, you know, to be a good pastor, you're going to say, listen, I know your life is upside down right now. Uh, just go ahead and step out. Like let's take a break. And then you're going to bring in, you know, somebody who's on the bench, who's been begging to be involved, who you've got in a, you know, maybe a less influential position, but who's ready to step up. Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (24:41.666)
and they'll still ride it out. Yeah, that's good.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (24:49.409)
Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (24:52.78)
Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (25:03.35)
Yeah, so real quick before we leave, let's just make a big list of volunteer roles that are a little bit, because I think, again, Average Joe, Normal Youth Pastor, Normal Youth Ministry in America, every volunteer that they have is to lead discussion, small group, school, whatever you want to call it with students.

Darren Sutton (25:29.134)
Yeah, for sure.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (25:31.064)
But there's a million other things and some people don't want to do that. Like we have a guy on our team right now who's awesome. He's like, I don't want to lead a Bible study, but he loves teenagers. He's like fun at heart. You know, like he's, he's the type of guy you'd want on your team, but he, he felt disqualified because he's like, I'm not equipped for that slash don't want to do it. And so like, to your point, there's a million things you can do. can make sandwiches. So what are some over the years, you're 35.

Darren Sutton (25:53.112)
Right.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (26:00.28)
plus years of experience. What are some of the different roles that you've had created, invented? Like give us some of the funniest best ones you got.

Darren Sutton (26:09.102)
Oh, I don't know. I have some that you couldn't do anymore. You know, I mean, I love that the, you're just going to show up at their like, you don't, you don't have to lead a Bible study, but I want you to show up at every single basketball game this kid has, you know, as just kind of a, you know, a big brother figure. You know, we had a lot of over the years had different

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (26:12.024)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Share those two from the the crypt.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (26:29.464)
Mm.

Darren Sutton (26:39.53)
spots had a lot of rec space. and so, you know, listen, I don't want you to do anything except play basketball. That's all you have to do. Play basketball and talk to students. you know, we also had the proverbial like set up chairs and, you know, come in and create, you know, new student, new student guest kits and, know, that kind of stuff. Probably the funniest one that we had was, in one church that I was in.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (26:41.816)
Mm-hmm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (26:48.534)
I love that job.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (27:00.684)
Yeah. Yeah.

Darren Sutton (27:09.224)
our student center was a kind of refabbed pavilion on the back of an acre and a half plot. So the church was at the front right and the student ministry area was at the back left and no lights, barely electricity. We threw up fake walls. We had window units kind of shoved in the corner and you know, as janky as it could be.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (27:16.578)
Okay.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (27:23.755)
Yeah.

Darren Sutton (27:38.478)
and so every week we would have fire ants that were building in the building, right? Like building these nests in the building. So we had our, our guy who would come in and kill the fire ants every week, and sweep it all out. That was his only job. Like he didn't want to hang out with students and all that, but he felt like that was a contribution he can make. had people in that same church, like one of the ways that we

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (27:53.046)
You

Darren Sutton (28:05.814)
kind of lighted the path in the middle of the night to that back area where with tiki torches. And so we had folks who would come in and, you know, light the tiki torches and sweep the pathway off and, you know, that kind of thing. So those were kind of unique. We had for a time, folks who would be, you know, kind of the bus run, except in their vehicles, we, don't do that anymore. Just generally for ministry safe purposes, but

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (28:10.359)
Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (28:28.941)
Right.

Darren Sutton (28:31.822)
Their only job was to pick kids up and drive them back and forth to church. They didn't stay in the youth ministry. didn't, but we gave them like in that job description, here are some questions you can be asking when kids get in your car to get the conversation going and you know, make sure you meet the parents and you know, things like that to help them be a little bit more invested in real life with kids. Had some volunteers whose main job was to reach out to parents.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (28:37.016)
Yeah.

Darren Sutton (28:59.886)
and make sure that, you know, hey, we know parenting teenagers is tough. Is there anything the student ministry can do for you? That was their only job to just keep a list of parents would love this. Parents would need that. And they pass that over to me and I'd figure out what we could do and you know, what was a really stupid idea we had to throw away. So some stuff like that. Once, you know, this one is selfish, but was important.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (29:07.672)
Hmm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (29:18.136)
Yeah, nice. keep going.

Darren Sutton (29:27.694)
uh, more important than I realized, I think at the time, uh, I enlisted somebody to pay attention to my kids. Uh, your job is and not just mine, but in that, in that church, just mine. But if we were in our context, we're having multiple staff members, it would be staff kids. Uh, but I, I was like, you know, my kids sacrifice a lot for me to be in student ministry and they were not teenagers yet. They were, you know, I don't know, 11, nine and seven, they were young. I just said, can you

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (29:35.063)
Uh-huh.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (29:42.646)
Mm-hmm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (29:53.708)
Yeah. Yeah.

Darren Sutton (29:56.792)
Can you just notice my kids? Like they're here a lot. They sacrifice a lot for ministry. Their dad's a pastor and so I'm sure that they're they need adults who are not their pastor. You know as well and your your jobs to just notice my kids and they crushed that like our kids to this day feel like those people are their grandparents even more than their actual grandparents. So that's another one.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (30:02.263)
Mm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (30:10.028)
Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (30:21.4)
It's cool.

Yeah, that's cool.

Darren Sutton (30:25.21)
You can come up with everything. Host homes and sandwich makers and so many ways to get people close enough to see what Jesus is doing without them having to lead a Bible study ever.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (30:27.832)
.

Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (30:37.335)
Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (30:43.512)
Yeah, that's good. So, okay, last thing. Talk to the youth pastor who's struggling, floundering, drowning. Find a word of encouragement about the importance of leaders and maybe just a basic for them next step. Hey, if you're gonna do anything, first thing to do is just do this. Don't feel overwhelmed by all of this. Maybe you don't have the...

Capacity to get a fire ant guy yet. Okay, that's fine But speak speak to that speak to the guy who's just like man. don't leaders are killing like it's just the hardest, you know part of my job, whatever like Encourage them for a second

Darren Sutton (31:22.712)
Yeah. Well, let me just say first, it's not your job. That's not your job. That's the job of the Holy Spirit. And he's very clear in scripture that we all have a part to play.

and that our job as pastors is to equip the saints for the work of service. Our job is not to make sure we have plenty of volunteers, not to make sure every hole gets filled. Our job is just to equip the people that the Holy Spirit brings. We can be more proactive in bringing them, but the Holy Spirit is the one who quickens their heart to be involved. So that's not your job. Your job isn't to convince them. Your job is to shepherd them and to give them an opportunity to step into what God is calling them to do.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (31:39.352)
Mm-hmm.

Darren Sutton (32:04.718)
Don't take the whole burden on yourself. And I mean that in two ways. It's the Holy Spirit's job and also you have some people, you definitely have some people who care about student ministry who will help recruit for you. You utilize that, whether that's other staff members, folks that are currently on your volunteer team, a parent who just happens to take a particular interest in what's going on in student ministry.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (32:20.792)
Mm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (32:31.224)
Teenagers.

Darren Sutton (32:32.364)
Yeah, for sure. 100 % ask a kid who they think would make a great youth leader. They'll have a list guaranteed. So.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (32:34.519)
you

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (32:38.742)
Yeah, yeah. I had a teenager one time go and list the head usher on his own. Yeah, I was like, well, I'll talk to him too. But it was great.

Darren Sutton (32:44.891)
Poach them from other ministries? I love it.

That's fantastic. But just don't feel the burden that it's all on you and don't feel the burden that it all has to happen right now. For me, it was a slow, kind of a slow burn into that whole idea that volunteers could be more and I needed to ask them to do more and be more. That took time. And it's not a foolproof, like,

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (33:16.502)
Yeah.

Darren Sutton (33:21.322)
I mean, we serving in church right now and across from this podcast, there's a big sheet on my door that lists every volunteer hole we have right now. And we have a lot. There's probably 20 people on there that we need to fill. So, you know, you're always going to have the need. You can't let the holes be what drives you. You've got to let the people who are in the room, you know, a little bit.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (33:31.384)
Yeah. Yeah.

Darren Sutton (33:47.384)
be what drives you. So, and it's totally doable because Jesus wants those kids even more than you do. And he's gonna raise up the people that are needed to help get them where he needs them to be.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (33:48.984)
That's good.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (34:01.304)
Nice, that's good. All right, anything else? Did we get it all?

Darren Sutton (34:05.312)
Yeah, think we, I mean, I'm sure we didn't get it all, but we got, you got all I got.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (34:08.28)
Well, that's a lot it's helpful so where do people find you Darren?

Darren Sutton (34:18.03)
listen, I'm everywhere. I'm, I'm almost like the Holy Spirit everywhere you are. am, I'm on all, I'm on all social stuff. if you're, yes. Well, actually I can't, you can't say that anymore. I deleted my account after it banned.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (34:22.039)
Woo!

That's scary.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (34:29.738)
including band TikTok. If you'd like to send...

It's back, it's back now.

Darren Sutton (34:38.464)
I know I'm trying to decide like, listen, I had so this whole podcast, I had so much time open up in my life that I'm like, maybe I don't want to, I'm not sure if I want to, if I want to take it back. But yeah, I mean, you know, Insta and Facebook and Twitter and you know, all that, I have a blog. everyone's called the youth ministry.com and, I'm not, you know, I have, I'm just like you. I'm an in the trenches youth pastor. So if you're looking for a regular, like,

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (34:42.712)
You

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (34:56.856)
Nice. We'll link it down below.

Darren Sutton (35:08.184)
podcast and a blog post. I don't do that. But I've been in this thing for a few minutes and I'm not planning on going anywhere. And so I love talking to you pastors. And if you ever need a guy who has made as many mistakes as you feel like you're making, you can reach out. Cause I got a whole list. Lots of stories. Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (35:24.856)
You

There you go. That's big right there. All right. Well, hey, for Darren, this is Nick signing off. See you guys.

Darren Sutton (35:33.944)
Bye guys.

]]> Episode 131: Secrets Revealed for Middle School Phone Usage https://www.hybridministry.xyz/131 41825e85-7af8-4bbf-80c6-61bae7bef0cf Thu, 09 Jan 2025 04:00:00 -0600 Nick Clason 131 Secrets Revealed for Middle School Phone Usage full Nick Clason In this conversation, Nick Clason and Ronald Long discuss the challenges and opportunities of youth ministry in the digital age, particularly focusing on the role of technology and cell phones among middle schoolers. They explore the importance of engagement in content creation, the necessity of guidelines for responsible phone use, and the balance between digital and in-person ministry. The discussion emphasizes the need for open conversations between parents and children regarding technology, as well as collaborative resources for youth pastors to navigate these challenges effectively. 26:37 no <p>✏️Collaborative Worksheet<br> <a href="https://share.hsforms.com/1t_3g3O3XTBqI-vq1Orq7ngnumis" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">https://share.hsforms.com/1t_3g3O3XTBqI-vq1Orq7ngnumis</a></p> <p>🎧 <strong>Ronald's Podcast</strong><br> <a href="https://podcast.downloadyouthministry.com/category/middle-school-ministry/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">https://podcast.downloadyouthministry.com/category/middle-school-ministry/</a></p> <p><strong>DESCRIPTION</strong><br> In this conversation, Nick Clason and Ronald Long discuss the challenges and opportunities of youth ministry in the digital age, particularly focusing on the role of technology and cell phones among middle schoolers. They explore the importance of engagement in content creation, the necessity of guidelines for responsible phone use, and the balance between digital and in-person ministry. The discussion emphasizes the need for open conversations between parents and children regarding technology, as well as collaborative resources for youth pastors to navigate these challenges effectively.</p> <p>πŸ““ <strong>SHOWNOTES</strong><br> <a href="http://www.hybridministry.xyz/131" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">http://www.hybridministry.xyz/131</a></p> <p>🎧 <strong>Become a Hybrid Hero</strong><br> <a href="https://www.patreon.com/hybridministry" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">https://www.patreon.com/hybridministry</a></p> <p>πŸ‘‰ STAY CONNECTED WITH NICK<br> YouTube: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@clasonnick" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">https://www.youtube.com/@clasonnick</a><br> Instagram: <a href="https://www.instagram.com/hybridministry/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">https://www.instagram.com/hybridministry/</a><br> TikTok: <a href="https://www.tiktok.com/@clasonnick" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">https://www.tiktok.com/@clasonnick</a><br> Facebook: <a href="https://www.facebook.com/HybridMinistry" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">https://www.facebook.com/HybridMinistry</a><br> Website: <a href="https://www.hybridministry.xyz" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">https://www.hybridministry.xyz</a></p> <p><strong>--------------</strong><br> <strong>πŸŽ‰ FREE STUFF πŸŽ‰</strong><br> We have all kinds of FREE Things that you can use in your context!<br> The best way to pay us back is a review or a YouTube Subscribe!<br> <a href="https://www.linktr.ee/clasonnick" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">https://www.linktr.ee/clasonnick</a></p> <p><strong>--------------</strong><br> <strong>πŸ› οΈTOOLS I USE THAT CAN HELP YOU!</strong><br> <em><em>Some of the below links are affiliate links in which we do recieve a small commission based on your purchase or use of products</em></em><br> VIDIQ<br> <a href="https://vidiq.com/hybrid" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">https://vidiq.com/hybrid</a></p> <p>BEST DYM RESOURCES<br> <a href="https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/dym" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/dym</a></p> <p>OPUS.PRO FOR AI SHORTS &amp; REELS<br> <a href="https://www.opus.pro/?via=a5d361" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">https://www.opus.pro/?via=a5d361</a></p> <p>//YOUTUBE STARTER KIT FOR UNDER $100<br> <a href="https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/youtubestarterkit" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/youtubestarterkit</a></p> <p>//SIDEKICK SETUP GUIDE<br> <a href="https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/setup" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/setup</a></p> <p><strong>⌚TIMECODES</strong><br> 00:00 The Role of Technology in Middle School Ministry<br> 04:50 Guidelines for Responsible Cell Phone Use<br> 09:50 Balancing Digital and In-Person Youth Ministry<br> 14:53 Encouraging Healthy Conversations About Technology<br> 20:01 Collaborative Resources for Youth Pastors</p> <p><strong>TRANSCRIPT</strong><br> Nick Clason (00:00)<br> What's up everybody? I'm Nick and this is.</p> <p>Ronald (00:04)<br> Hey guys, I'm Ronald Long. How you doing?</p> <p>Nick Clason (00:06)<br> We're excited to be here, Ronald. This is a weird thing. This is your show, this is my show, this is our show.</p> <p>Ronald (00:08)<br> we are excited to be here.</p> <p>Whose show is it really? That's a question.</p> <p>Nick Clason (00:15)<br> That is the question that people want to know the answer to.</p> <p>Ronald (00:19)<br> Did I just take over hybrid youth ministry? I think I did. I did. great. This is mine now. And yours? You get middle school ministry. Yeah, this is it. Tell Andrea. no.</p> <p>Nick Clason (00:23)<br> You did, you did. Yeah. Welcome. Well, actually, yeah, and I'm taking over middle school. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you have exactly. Bye, Andrea. Bye. Anyway, you know, Ronald, it's interesting and I'm excited to have this conversation because probably the biggest, one of the biggest pushbacks I get when I'm pushing stuff like in my hybrid ministry, just idea and whatnot is what about middle schoolers?</p> <p>especially like in our context, we don't get middle schoolers until like, or we get them at sixth grade, which there's an inflection point. And depending on the conservative nature of your church, there could be a lot of those students that have cell phones. And then a lot of students that don't, you know? And so like my main thing with hybrid ministry is trying to intersect people where they are. And I think the cell phone is just a great spot to try and aim for. Right. But what about those middle schoolers that are young and like don't have cell phones? And so.</p> <p>Ronald (00:57)<br> Yeah.</p> <p>Mm-hmm.</p> <p>Yeah.</p> <p>Nick Clason (01:21)<br> I'm excited to have this conversation with you because you as a lifelong middle school youth pastor and host of podcasts, like you and a dad of daughters in that age age range, right? Like I want to hear your perspective because I'm it feels to me and you can correct me if I'm wrong, but it feels to me like middle schoolers kind of run the gamut. Some that don't even have access to any technology and then some that are just all in way too much. You're a little scared for their well-being, you know.</p> <p>Ronald (01:29)<br> EW.</p> <p>Yeah.</p> <p>Absolutely, and you're right because their parents also run the gambit too. So for people listening who don't know, I have in my house four teenage daughters. I have 18 year old senior graduating this year, then I have a freshman, a seventh grader, and a fifth grader. So I've got everybody.</p> <p>Nick Clason (01:54)<br> Mm-hmm.</p> <p>Mm-hmm.</p> <p>Yeah, you're right there.</p> <p>Ronald (02:15)<br> And my elementary school kid who's in fifth grade, Ruth is telling me about like her friends who have cell phones and have had cell phones since like third and fourth grade. Like that's just been their reality. They have always had a phone. Think of the iPad kid who just like parents are like, yeah, whatever here, right? Here's just the next step up. Go ahead and have a phone. Don't care. Put whatever on it. And then like,</p> <p>Nick Clason (02:42)<br> So</p> <p>Ronald (02:45)<br> me and my family, this has become our rule, it was our rule with our first, you get your cell phone at the end of fifth grade. And so, and we'll talk a little bit more about this too because I have really appreciated what other parents like told me and helped me figure out. That cell phone only can do a couple things, right? And we stair-step eventually through it.</p> <p>Nick Clason (02:54)<br> Okay.</p> <p>Hmm. So as we like lean into this, first of all, everyone should know, no matter where you're listening, hit the link down below, because Ronald and I put together kind of like a collaborative hybrid ministry for middle schoolers kind of resource. So take it, download it, use it, share it with your parents, whatever you want to do. But especially like here we are post-Christmas, and isn't it so true that most middle schoolers</p> <p>Ronald (03:30)<br> Use it.</p> <p>Nick Clason (03:41)<br> there's a lot of technology that's given under the tree. And so this is just a very timely conversation, right? Like let's talk about technology use and middle schoolers. give us, like, why you start there where you did a little bit, like dive a little deeper into that. Fifth grader, that's your rule. Is that your recommendation? Do you take it, would you recommend parents take that on more of a case by case type basis? What's the wisdom principle in that, or is it?</p> <p>Ronald (03:44)<br> 100%.</p> <p>yeah.</p> <p>Nick Clason (04:08)<br> you know, hard and fast, like, yeah, as soon as they're done with fifth grade, they're mature enough to have a cell phone or like, what's your, how do you make that decision? I guess, or how would you coach parents to make that decision?</p> <p>Ronald (04:17)<br> So what we went through and what was kind of like the deciding factor for us is, I live in San Antonio and so we have, once my kid was finished with elementary school, our oldest, she had friends who were splitting up into like the four winds, right? And we wanted to give her a way to stay connected to them and so we were like, okay, we're going to give you a phone, but.</p> <p>Nick Clason (04:36)<br> Mm.</p> <p>Yeah.</p> <p>Ronald (04:46)<br> Big stipulations. We had it, it's an iPhone, so we locked it down pretty tight to where she couldn't download any apps without requesting permission, so that's a big deal. There's no browser on it. So in fact, my high schooler just got a browser this year for ninth grade. to put that in, yeah, no browser.</p> <p>Nick Clason (04:51)<br> Mm-hmm.</p> <p>Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.</p> <p>Okay, so that's like all of middle school. Yeah.</p> <p>Ronald (05:16)<br> Specifically also, no social media. She actually also just got her first social media, which was Pinterest. you, stair steppin' man. That's a stair step. But that, okay, here's what I tell parents, and here's what I have told parents and what I am taking through. Imagine a cell phone like a car, right? You are, even for the visual.</p> <p>Nick Clason (05:25)<br> Okay. Which, does that even count? know, like that's one of those fringe ones.</p> <p>For sure.</p> <p>Mm-hmm.</p> <p>Ronald (05:46)<br> You're giving keys away to your kid. for the audio too. on. There we go. Little foley. Little foley for our audio listeners. You don't just give the Ferrari away to a 16 year old or a 15 year old and say, right, go figure that out. guess you know more about this than I do. Like, no, no.</p> <p>Nick Clason (05:46)<br> There you go.</p> <p>Those are car keys, people. Ronald's jingling them. We'll narrate this.</p> <p>Yeah.</p> <p>Ronald (06:15)<br> you start that kid backing in and out of your driveway in the beater, right? And so we took that principle and applied it to our kids having cell phones. So like, okay, you're going to get like a not great iPhones, not the brand new one. It's going to be like, the one with the one camera. Yeah. The one camera type deal. And we're going to stair step you through this. Well, that's just an Android, Nick. That's what you.</p> <p>Nick Clason (06:30)<br> Mm-hmm. me down. Yeah.</p> <p>Maybe some crack screens like my Android here.</p> <p>The glass is apparently weaker.</p> <p>Ronald (06:45)<br> That's fine. No, and so we've stair-stepped. so my seventh grader who has a phone, also has a phone in middle school, has a phone but doesn't have, again, social media doesn't have a browser. And we also put like a stipulation on where the phone can go. My girls, I live in a two-story house. All the bedrooms are upstairs. No phones upstairs. Like that's a rule for us. And so when ...</p> <p>Nick Clason (07:11)<br> Great rule, by the way. I approve. Yeah.</p> <p>Ronald (07:14)<br> When it's time to go to bed, the charger's downstairs and they have to charge their phone downstairs. No phones at the dinner table. In fact, even it's no phones after dinner. So we say, hey, get it done after dinner, no phones. Those are just like things that we have done as a family to be like, hey, here's the deal. We are going to give you permission that expands with responsibility. And then also cool thing as a parent, my kids don't have a cell phone after supper.</p> <p>Nick Clason (07:18)<br> Yeah, good.</p> <p>Mmm. It's good. It's good.</p> <p>Mm-hmm.</p> <p>Ronald (07:44)<br> So if I'm just scrolling on my cell phone after supper, they're like, hey dad, what are you doing? I'm like, yeah, you're right. I need to be off my phone. I need to pay attention to you.</p> <p>Nick Clason (07:46)<br> They're calling you out.</p> <p>That's so smart. That's just like built in accountability right there, for sure. Yeah. And you know, the thing that I, I try and tell parents as well in our context and other youth ministry avenues and whatever, honestly, just like a lot of times the question is what product or what resource do you use to like monitor like your kids screen usage and all those types of things. And rest assured, there are a million different like resources and things out there that you can use and you can lean into.</p> <p>Ronald (07:57)<br> It's huge.</p> <p>Absolutely.</p> <p>Nick Clason (08:22)<br> But at the end of the day, the goal is for that thing not to become your kid's parent. The goal is for you to be the parent of it. Right. And so I love your rules because those guidelines are things that you've put in place. Like you can lock down an iPhone all you want, but you can still abuse it if it's in the room and they're on it until way after bedtime or you know, the no, no phones after dinner thing. Like there can be indiscriminate use or just like mindless use of it. And so.</p> <p>Ronald (08:50)<br> Mm-hmm.</p> <p>Nick Clason (08:51)<br> You're being proactive and in on top of it, you know, and that's, that's what I really like and appreciate because that's the tech. There's always a workaround in the technology. That's what I've found. Like there's no foolproof piece of technology. It's always a work.</p> <p>Ronald (09:02)<br> Heck yeah.</p> <p>No, I figured it out when I was dealing dial-up modem internet and my parents had the protective things when I was in high school. like, I can figure this out, you know? So no amount of blocking software or things like that will get around actual discipleship of your kids. Because you are a person who is imperfect, just like your kids. They're gonna make mistakes. So what do do?</p> <p>Nick Clason (09:10)<br> Yeah.</p> <p>Exactly. Yeah.</p> <p>Yeah, for sure.</p> <p>That's it. That's it. That's good. That's good. Let's shift gears a little bit then. Let's talk about your, how you've noticed technology, cell phones, whatever, within actual confines of youth ministry. Not just, you you parenting your kids with it, but like, what's it like navigating? Cause in a lot of cases, like we said, you got kids that don't even have it at all versus kids who are like using and fully on like all the social apps. So.</p> <p>Ronald (09:36)<br> Like, how do you figure that out? Big deal.</p> <p>Yeah.</p> <p>Nick Clason (10:03)<br> What was your typical practice as a middle school pastor with technology?</p> <p>Ronald (10:10)<br> Yeah, of it was just being open about that being a potential barrier between you and other people. And the other thing was not, because I was in a real conservative context, there was almost like some judgment to kids who did have a phone, which was really funny. And so I had to like stamp, yeah, I'm glad you get it. So.</p> <p>Nick Clason (10:28)<br> Mm</p> <p>Yeah, same here by the way, so I can relate to that.</p> <p>Ronald (10:39)<br> On the one hand, whenever I had a parent being like, you know what, my kid just say that they don't connect very, they don't have any friends in youth ministry. And I'm looking at their kid, I so remember this one specific instance of girl, phone here, face down, and even her hair like covered the side of her face to where all it was, and she was in a corner on her phone looking down at it and not engaging with the room.</p> <p>Nick Clason (10:59)<br> Yeah.</p> <p>Ronald (11:07)<br> And then like I got a email three weeks later being like, my daughter is just not making any friends. I'm like, yeah, no joke. I've tried. And so trying to have a conversation with students where it's both not being judgmental, but also making sure they're aware of like, hey guys, if you feel lonely, one of the reasons in a list might be you're on your phone too much and you're missing what's going on right in front of you.</p> <p>Nick Clason (11:13)<br> Yeah.</p> <p>Mm-hmm.</p> <p>Mm-hmm.</p> <p>Ronald (11:36)<br> you care more about your online persona or the next funny video than you do your friend who's literally sitting three feet away from you. so trying to navigate that well was always the thing. And so that would just be like application. But on the other hand, you can do that in really great ways to be like, Hey guys, if you've got a phone, text a friend verse right now, someone who's not in this room, text an encouraging verse.</p> <p>Nick Clason (11:52)<br> Mm-hmm.</p> <p>Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.</p> <p>Ronald (12:03)<br> so that you can be a light in their life, right? It's both and, right? So I don't like telling a kid, hey, cell phones are the devil, you should never have one. And I don't like telling parents, just give your kid a phone and don't worry about it, because it's absolutely both and.</p> <p>Nick Clason (12:08)<br> Yeah. Yeah.</p> <p>Right.</p> <p>Yeah, yeah. Well, and that's honestly, that's exactly like what I feel like my entire podcast is predicated on. what this started out of, I don't know, I guess like a moment of frustration and a little bit of like an inflection point. like we'd gone pretty hard in on like digital ministry during COVID. I was working in Chicago and so it was necessitated, like it had to happen.</p> <p>But then we found some really fun and cool wins out of doing ministry in a digital sort of context and some opportunities that actually opened up for us that weren't available to us doing ministry pre-COVID. And so as we were all sort of coming back from, you know, restrictions and lockdown and all those types of things, we were then trying to navigate this like tension between like how much should we swing the pendulum, right? And so my whole, like my whole thing, like the whole name of this like hybrid ministry is like,</p> <p>Ronald (13:08)<br> Yeah.</p> <p>Nick Clason (13:13)<br> It's not just your digital, but it's not just your in-person. It's kind of that both and, and I think in all of life, it's easier for us. We like to draw hard and hard and fast lines and be like, cell phones are bad. So you should not, but I like your, you know, your Ferrari example because you have to work, you have to work up to it. You don't just earn it immediately. And so like my contention is as much as we, especially older generations want to lament cell phones and how difficult they are for</p> <p>ministry and connection and they are like in some cases they definitely are, but like there's also a lot of good, you know, that comes out of them. your friend a verse or group chats. Like group chats are such a simple thing that didn't exist. Was it 10 years ago? 15 years ago? Like even if you have people with Android, like group chats are still a way to stay connected, you know, to one another. but you know, so like that's, that's kind of like my contention is like</p> <p>Ronald (13:54)<br> Mm-hmm.</p> <p>No, you can't connect with people with Androids over group chat. It doesn't happen.</p> <p>Nick Clason (14:11)<br> we have to help students navigate this well and not just settle for the easy answer of just throw your cell phone in a river. It's terrible and it's the enemy. And if we think that, then why are we getting our kids these things for Christmas? It's like, I just need to call them at practice. Okay, but now you've opened Pandora's box and that's not necessarily a bad thing, not condemning any parent for doing that. I'm just saying now we have to help them navigate that well, both at the parent level and also while we're like...</p> <p>Ronald (14:20)<br> Yeah. Yeah.</p> <p>Absolutely.</p> <p>Nick Clason (14:40)<br> navigating and managing that within like our student ministries.</p> <p>Ronald (14:44)<br> Sure, and it's just as important as showing your kid what you version can do and be like, hey, you know what's really cool about you version? It's a Bible reading plan. Let's you and me do it together, parent and kid. Or, hey, as a ministry, we're gonna do this month long Bible reading plan. That's on your phone. Yeah, it's absolutely being able to use the tools that are available to us, because we could have said the same thing about lamenting the invention of the car, taking away our, aw man, we're not as</p> <p>Nick Clason (14:50)<br> Yeah.</p> <p>Yeah, yeah.</p> <p>Course privileges.</p> <p>Ronald (15:14)<br> connected. So yeah, and since this is the middle school ministry podcast too, it matters to a middle school student what you model to them. Because they take that to heart. so my whole thing was not trying to judge those who had a cell phone. But yeah, absolutely. If they're going to be on YouTube,</p> <p>Nick Clason (15:22)<br> Mm-hmm.</p> <p>Mm.</p> <p>Mm-hmm.</p> <p>Ronald (15:44)<br> watching you know Mr. Beast do whatever Mr. Beast does then I kind of also want them to hear from their youth pastor every now and then and so that's an easy thing to do like you pastor to take your phone spend five minutes making five reels and then or five shorts for YouTube and be like hey look my kids are gonna get some encouragement for me this week that's it's out there</p> <p>Nick Clason (15:51)<br> Why not? Yeah, exactly.</p> <p>Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I absolutely. And one thing I've noticed and I've seen in like studies and stuff here recently is like, you know, Gen X boomers even have all sort of like settled in on Facebook millennials. Are you millennial, Ronald? Yeah. All right. Me too. Me too. Instagram, right? It's kind of like millennials favorite platform. Gen Z sort of like made tick tock its thing. We're noticing</p> <p>Ronald (16:22)<br> yes, and how dare you.</p> <p>Mm-hmm.</p> <p>Nick Clason (16:34)<br> Jen Alpha's making YouTube kind of their spot. And I, yeah. And I even read that it, for Jen Alpha, it's taking the place of Google as its preferred search engine. And so what an opportunity for us like to be on there, you know, and for middle school kids to see us, to see their youth pastor, to maybe even see themselves or their friends from youth group. You know, if you post shorts, reels, all that type of stuff on there, like</p> <p>Ronald (16:36)<br> Yeah, it is YouTube.</p> <p>Absolutely.</p> <p>Nick Clason (17:01)<br> You're so right. Like it's such a fantastic opportunity. it really, just exactly what my whole goal with hybrid is like showing up where they are. Like if they're on YouTube, how cool is it? Like they can get on there and they can watch MrBeast who's all across the country and also their church.</p> <p>Ronald (17:17)<br> Well, and to even use the platform like it's currently being used then, how cool would it be if your kid typed in how to study the Bible and they got an answer from their youth pastor immediately? Like you already had a five minute video on how to study the Bible that you had prepared for your kids and it was there, right? Because that's how they're using the platform.</p> <p>Nick Clason (17:30)<br> Right? Yeah. Exactly.</p> <p>Exactly. Yeah, it's not just like, it's not just there for you as a youth pastor to have another channel for announcements, though you can be, but I would, what I encourage people to do is use the platforms for their intended uses. And so if you're going to use it for a thing that you think is what your ministry needs, but it's not in alignment with the intended use of the platform, you're not going to see the same types of results than if you actually use it for what it's being used for, which is answering specific questions.</p> <p>Ronald (17:46)<br> Mm-hmm.</p> <p>Yep. Yep.</p> <p>Nick Clason (18:09)<br> And frankly, entertainment, right? And maybe like a little bit of inspiration too. So that's good. So what would you say to a middle school youth pastor or any youth pastor out there, like who's got people in their church like you and like me who are a little leery about cell phone, cell phone usage, middle school. Like what's the, how would you coach them, you know, to either lean in and have that conversation or.</p> <p>Ronald (18:26)<br> Mm-hmm.</p> <p>Nick Clason (18:38)<br> with parents or how to like manage maybe some of that potential like turbulent waters of, you know, angry parents who think cell phones are evil and of the devil.</p> <p>Ronald (18:48)<br> You know what's funny is when I first started in ministry, there was a big deal where we said, don't bring any cell phones to camp. And then there was a really turbulent season in between when we arrived to my kid as a parent saying, my kid will bring their phone to camp or they're not going.</p> <p>Nick Clason (18:58)<br> Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.</p> <p>yeah.</p> <p>Ronald (19:18)<br> And so navigating that in between, I think there are far fewer parents who are going to say that a cell phone is evil. They might be saying, my kid has to have one because I need to be connected and know what's up with my kid at all times.</p> <p>Nick Clason (19:27)<br> Yeah.</p> <p>Yeah.</p> <p>Ronald (19:35)<br> which is a different type of unhealth, that's fine. We can go from there. To help a youth pastor navigate the cell phones. Cell phones are bad, right? A cell phone is the same, to use the car analogy. It's a tool. can take you someplace great. It can take you someplace awful. And if you want to be the youth pastor who's like, no cell phones in the youth room. They go in this box over here and we use paper Bible still. Like that's fine.</p> <p>Nick Clason (19:45)<br> Yeah.</p> <p>Yeah, you can do that. Yeah, yeah.</p> <p>Ronald (20:04)<br> if you explain that, right? As long as you're saying, why we do this as a ministry, this is the vision, this is what we're trying to accomplish. Do that, but you're going to have parents who, when you go to camp, when you go to retreat, they're gonna push back on you and be like, hey, my kid is going to take their cell phone. I don't care what their rules are.</p> <p>Nick Clason (20:28)<br> Yeah. Well, like when did you get a cell phone? Like how old were you when you got a cell phone? Yeah.</p> <p>Ronald (20:31)<br> I was 16 and I got a cell phone because my parents were afraid that I was going to get lost when I started driving by myself. So I got my dad's secretary's old Nokia phone.</p> <p>Nick Clason (20:45)<br> But so you're 16, right? And now you're the type of parent in that particular age bracket and demographic, you're sending your daughter's kids to camp. like that's all, know, cell phones from the age of 16 for you and on up. Like I was about the same, you know, so here in a couple of years when my kids are old enough to go to camp, I only, that's my like comfort zone, you know? And so like I get their scary stuff on it, but</p> <p>Ronald (20:56)<br> Yeah. Yeah.</p> <p>Nick Clason (21:14)<br> It's also gonna, it's not, you're not never gonna give your kid a cell phone. So how do we, and that's my thing, how do we help lean in and teach them the good things of it? Put good, good rules and guidelines and guardrails all around it so that you're hopefully protecting your kids and having conversations, you know, with it.</p> <p>Ronald (21:25)<br> Yeah.</p> <p>It's exactly that. It's continued conversations with kids. And even as a parent being okay to say, these are our non-cell phone times to where we're going to talk. I know parents who like to say no phones in the car because that 15 minute, 20 minute drive can be like, hey, we can actually have a conversation as we drive around. But just having conversations about your phone usage. Hey, who are you following? Hey.</p> <p>Nick Clason (21:35)<br> That's it, yeah.</p> <p>Yeah, yeah, so true.</p> <p>Mm-hmm.</p> <p>Ronald (22:00)<br> I or even telling like I will do this with my girls. I'll send them goofy videos and goofy memes Not because I think they're the funniest thing in the world But I'm trying to connect with them on their level like to my own kids and so like It's funny because they don't have social media what I'm doing is screen recording a funny reel I saw and then sending that to them as a message</p> <p>Nick Clason (22:09)<br> Yeah, yeah.</p> <p>Yeah dude. Yeah, for sure.</p> <p>Bro, that's so committed, but I love it. Like that's, you you're like, we're not doing the social media thing, but I still want you to see this thing that I saw on social media and it's funny. So you'll like it. It's great.</p> <p>Ronald (22:34)<br> Yeah, and I want you to know that I'm thinking of you throughout the day. I want you to laugh. This is a funny thing. And yeah, phones aren't the devil. Yeah, so it's trying to continually have a conversation with your kid. And even where you're saying, hopefully they're coming to you and being like, my friend is being dumb in the group chat. They go, okay, what did they say? Talking through what's good to text, what's not good to text, how...</p> <p>Nick Clason (22:43)<br> That's great,</p> <p>Ronald (23:02)<br> inflection matters and be like, Hey, I know you hate it, but this might be a FaceTime moment because it sounds like you guys are not seeing each other texting back and forth. Maybe you need to like actually talk.</p> <p>Nick Clason (23:12)<br> Yeah. Yeah, man, that's so good. Well, anything else, Ronald, before we hang this sucker up?</p> <p>Ronald (23:19)<br> I think the most important thing a parent can do with their kid and having a phone is have some guidelines and have lots of conversations. I think if you stick into those two places, like you're gonna be in a spot where maybe sometimes it's uncomfortable, maybe it's sometimes you're giving a little bit more, you're giving more unearned responsibility away than you're ready for, but like that's parenting as a whole. You don't want your 18 year old kid.</p> <p>to get a cell phone and all social media all at once and be like, well, now I'm gonna learn everything. It's much, I think it's a much better experience for you and the kid if you walk them through the process together with you in the driver's seat sometimes and them in the driver's seat sometimes.</p> <p>Nick Clason (24:04)<br> That's good. Yeah, actually, if anyone's listening to this, watching this like here live, like in the next several weeks, like that's what I'm doing on my podcast is I'm doing like some parent and kid kind of like tech talks. And so they're like aimed for youth pastors to like curate or have that conversation with like some downloadable worksheets and stuff like that that they can share. because I think that's, that's the key in all of this. Like it's, it's easier to draw a line in the sand and be like, no, this, like this is it. We're not doing that, but like we,</p> <p>Ronald (24:16)<br> Mmm, yeah.</p> <p>Nick Clason (24:34)<br> That's the phone has not allowed us to do that. It's not going away. So instead we got to figure out how do we lean into it into what's uncomfortable and maybe like uncertain waters, like lean into it to just open up that continued kind of conversation thing. So I think that's, that's so good. So, yo, if you're listening here for me on my channel, go follow everything Ronald's doing, middle school ministry podcast. It's dope. It's all about middle schoolers and he's got dope co-hosts.</p> <p>Ronald (24:48)<br> Absolutely.</p> <p>Yeah. I just want to thank everybody for listening to my podcast, the hybrid ministry podcast. Thank you so much. That's really great. No, and if you're, if you're listening to this from middle school ministry podcast, you should definitely go check out what Nick Clayson is doing over in hybrid ministry. Some really good stuff, some really helpful things to carry the conversation forward when it comes to the digital world and youth ministry.</p> <p>Nick Clason (25:05)<br> that you've taken over.</p> <p>Yeah, no, I love it. So good. And like I said, we both collabed on a little resource. It's free in both of our show notes, so go grab that. that's it, man. We'll talk to guys next time.</p> <p>Ronald (25:34)<br> See you around.</p> youth ministry, technology, middle school, cell phone use, digital ministry, engagement, content creation, parenting, social media, youth pastor, hybrid ministry, nick clason, ronald long, download youth ministry ✏️Collaborative Worksheet
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DESCRIPTION
In this conversation, Nick Clason and Ronald Long discuss the challenges and opportunities of youth ministry in the digital age, particularly focusing on the role of technology and cell phones among middle schoolers. They explore the importance of engagement in content creation, the necessity of guidelines for responsible phone use, and the balance between digital and in-person ministry. The discussion emphasizes the need for open conversations between parents and children regarding technology, as well as collaborative resources for youth pastors to navigate these challenges effectively.

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⌚TIMECODES
00:00 The Role of Technology in Middle School Ministry
04:50 Guidelines for Responsible Cell Phone Use
09:50 Balancing Digital and In-Person Youth Ministry
14:53 Encouraging Healthy Conversations About Technology
20:01 Collaborative Resources for Youth Pastors

TRANSCRIPT
Nick Clason (00:00)
What's up everybody? I'm Nick and this is.

Ronald (00:04)
Hey guys, I'm Ronald Long. How you doing?

Nick Clason (00:06)
We're excited to be here, Ronald. This is a weird thing. This is your show, this is my show, this is our show.

Ronald (00:08)
we are excited to be here.

Whose show is it really? That's a question.

Nick Clason (00:15)
That is the question that people want to know the answer to.

Ronald (00:19)
Did I just take over hybrid youth ministry? I think I did. I did. great. This is mine now. And yours? You get middle school ministry. Yeah, this is it. Tell Andrea. no.

Nick Clason (00:23)
You did, you did. Yeah. Welcome. Well, actually, yeah, and I'm taking over middle school. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you have exactly. Bye, Andrea. Bye. Anyway, you know, Ronald, it's interesting and I'm excited to have this conversation because probably the biggest, one of the biggest pushbacks I get when I'm pushing stuff like in my hybrid ministry, just idea and whatnot is what about middle schoolers?

especially like in our context, we don't get middle schoolers until like, or we get them at sixth grade, which there's an inflection point. And depending on the conservative nature of your church, there could be a lot of those students that have cell phones. And then a lot of students that don't, you know? And so like my main thing with hybrid ministry is trying to intersect people where they are. And I think the cell phone is just a great spot to try and aim for. Right. But what about those middle schoolers that are young and like don't have cell phones? And so.

Ronald (00:57)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Nick Clason (01:21)
I'm excited to have this conversation with you because you as a lifelong middle school youth pastor and host of podcasts, like you and a dad of daughters in that age age range, right? Like I want to hear your perspective because I'm it feels to me and you can correct me if I'm wrong, but it feels to me like middle schoolers kind of run the gamut. Some that don't even have access to any technology and then some that are just all in way too much. You're a little scared for their well-being, you know.

Ronald (01:29)
EW.

Yeah.

Absolutely, and you're right because their parents also run the gambit too. So for people listening who don't know, I have in my house four teenage daughters. I have 18 year old senior graduating this year, then I have a freshman, a seventh grader, and a fifth grader. So I've got everybody.

Nick Clason (01:54)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, you're right there.

Ronald (02:15)
And my elementary school kid who's in fifth grade, Ruth is telling me about like her friends who have cell phones and have had cell phones since like third and fourth grade. Like that's just been their reality. They have always had a phone. Think of the iPad kid who just like parents are like, yeah, whatever here, right? Here's just the next step up. Go ahead and have a phone. Don't care. Put whatever on it. And then like,

Nick Clason (02:42)
So

Ronald (02:45)
me and my family, this has become our rule, it was our rule with our first, you get your cell phone at the end of fifth grade. And so, and we'll talk a little bit more about this too because I have really appreciated what other parents like told me and helped me figure out. That cell phone only can do a couple things, right? And we stair-step eventually through it.

Nick Clason (02:54)
Okay.

Hmm. So as we like lean into this, first of all, everyone should know, no matter where you're listening, hit the link down below, because Ronald and I put together kind of like a collaborative hybrid ministry for middle schoolers kind of resource. So take it, download it, use it, share it with your parents, whatever you want to do. But especially like here we are post-Christmas, and isn't it so true that most middle schoolers

Ronald (03:30)
Use it.

Nick Clason (03:41)
there's a lot of technology that's given under the tree. And so this is just a very timely conversation, right? Like let's talk about technology use and middle schoolers. give us, like, why you start there where you did a little bit, like dive a little deeper into that. Fifth grader, that's your rule. Is that your recommendation? Do you take it, would you recommend parents take that on more of a case by case type basis? What's the wisdom principle in that, or is it?

Ronald (03:44)
100%.

yeah.

Nick Clason (04:08)
you know, hard and fast, like, yeah, as soon as they're done with fifth grade, they're mature enough to have a cell phone or like, what's your, how do you make that decision? I guess, or how would you coach parents to make that decision?

Ronald (04:17)
So what we went through and what was kind of like the deciding factor for us is, I live in San Antonio and so we have, once my kid was finished with elementary school, our oldest, she had friends who were splitting up into like the four winds, right? And we wanted to give her a way to stay connected to them and so we were like, okay, we're going to give you a phone, but.

Nick Clason (04:36)
Mm.

Yeah.

Ronald (04:46)
Big stipulations. We had it, it's an iPhone, so we locked it down pretty tight to where she couldn't download any apps without requesting permission, so that's a big deal. There's no browser on it. So in fact, my high schooler just got a browser this year for ninth grade. to put that in, yeah, no browser.

Nick Clason (04:51)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Okay, so that's like all of middle school. Yeah.

Ronald (05:16)
Specifically also, no social media. She actually also just got her first social media, which was Pinterest. you, stair steppin' man. That's a stair step. But that, okay, here's what I tell parents, and here's what I have told parents and what I am taking through. Imagine a cell phone like a car, right? You are, even for the visual.

Nick Clason (05:25)
Okay. Which, does that even count? know, like that's one of those fringe ones.

For sure.

Mm-hmm.

Ronald (05:46)
You're giving keys away to your kid. for the audio too. on. There we go. Little foley. Little foley for our audio listeners. You don't just give the Ferrari away to a 16 year old or a 15 year old and say, right, go figure that out. guess you know more about this than I do. Like, no, no.

Nick Clason (05:46)
There you go.

Those are car keys, people. Ronald's jingling them. We'll narrate this.

Yeah.

Ronald (06:15)
you start that kid backing in and out of your driveway in the beater, right? And so we took that principle and applied it to our kids having cell phones. So like, okay, you're going to get like a not great iPhones, not the brand new one. It's going to be like, the one with the one camera. Yeah. The one camera type deal. And we're going to stair step you through this. Well, that's just an Android, Nick. That's what you.

Nick Clason (06:30)
Mm-hmm. me down. Yeah.

Maybe some crack screens like my Android here.

The glass is apparently weaker.

Ronald (06:45)
That's fine. No, and so we've stair-stepped. so my seventh grader who has a phone, also has a phone in middle school, has a phone but doesn't have, again, social media doesn't have a browser. And we also put like a stipulation on where the phone can go. My girls, I live in a two-story house. All the bedrooms are upstairs. No phones upstairs. Like that's a rule for us. And so when ...

Nick Clason (07:11)
Great rule, by the way. I approve. Yeah.

Ronald (07:14)
When it's time to go to bed, the charger's downstairs and they have to charge their phone downstairs. No phones at the dinner table. In fact, even it's no phones after dinner. So we say, hey, get it done after dinner, no phones. Those are just like things that we have done as a family to be like, hey, here's the deal. We are going to give you permission that expands with responsibility. And then also cool thing as a parent, my kids don't have a cell phone after supper.

Nick Clason (07:18)
Yeah, good.

Mmm. It's good. It's good.

Mm-hmm.

Ronald (07:44)
So if I'm just scrolling on my cell phone after supper, they're like, hey dad, what are you doing? I'm like, yeah, you're right. I need to be off my phone. I need to pay attention to you.

Nick Clason (07:46)
They're calling you out.

That's so smart. That's just like built in accountability right there, for sure. Yeah. And you know, the thing that I, I try and tell parents as well in our context and other youth ministry avenues and whatever, honestly, just like a lot of times the question is what product or what resource do you use to like monitor like your kids screen usage and all those types of things. And rest assured, there are a million different like resources and things out there that you can use and you can lean into.

Ronald (07:57)
It's huge.

Absolutely.

Nick Clason (08:22)
But at the end of the day, the goal is for that thing not to become your kid's parent. The goal is for you to be the parent of it. Right. And so I love your rules because those guidelines are things that you've put in place. Like you can lock down an iPhone all you want, but you can still abuse it if it's in the room and they're on it until way after bedtime or you know, the no, no phones after dinner thing. Like there can be indiscriminate use or just like mindless use of it. And so.

Ronald (08:50)
Mm-hmm.

Nick Clason (08:51)
You're being proactive and in on top of it, you know, and that's, that's what I really like and appreciate because that's the tech. There's always a workaround in the technology. That's what I've found. Like there's no foolproof piece of technology. It's always a work.

Ronald (09:02)
Heck yeah.

No, I figured it out when I was dealing dial-up modem internet and my parents had the protective things when I was in high school. like, I can figure this out, you know? So no amount of blocking software or things like that will get around actual discipleship of your kids. Because you are a person who is imperfect, just like your kids. They're gonna make mistakes. So what do do?

Nick Clason (09:10)
Yeah.

Exactly. Yeah.

Yeah, for sure.

That's it. That's it. That's good. That's good. Let's shift gears a little bit then. Let's talk about your, how you've noticed technology, cell phones, whatever, within actual confines of youth ministry. Not just, you you parenting your kids with it, but like, what's it like navigating? Cause in a lot of cases, like we said, you got kids that don't even have it at all versus kids who are like using and fully on like all the social apps. So.

Ronald (09:36)
Like, how do you figure that out? Big deal.

Yeah.

Nick Clason (10:03)
What was your typical practice as a middle school pastor with technology?

Ronald (10:10)
Yeah, of it was just being open about that being a potential barrier between you and other people. And the other thing was not, because I was in a real conservative context, there was almost like some judgment to kids who did have a phone, which was really funny. And so I had to like stamp, yeah, I'm glad you get it. So.

Nick Clason (10:28)
Mm

Yeah, same here by the way, so I can relate to that.

Ronald (10:39)
On the one hand, whenever I had a parent being like, you know what, my kid just say that they don't connect very, they don't have any friends in youth ministry. And I'm looking at their kid, I so remember this one specific instance of girl, phone here, face down, and even her hair like covered the side of her face to where all it was, and she was in a corner on her phone looking down at it and not engaging with the room.

Nick Clason (10:59)
Yeah.

Ronald (11:07)
And then like I got a email three weeks later being like, my daughter is just not making any friends. I'm like, yeah, no joke. I've tried. And so trying to have a conversation with students where it's both not being judgmental, but also making sure they're aware of like, hey guys, if you feel lonely, one of the reasons in a list might be you're on your phone too much and you're missing what's going on right in front of you.

Nick Clason (11:13)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Ronald (11:36)
you care more about your online persona or the next funny video than you do your friend who's literally sitting three feet away from you. so trying to navigate that well was always the thing. And so that would just be like application. But on the other hand, you can do that in really great ways to be like, Hey guys, if you've got a phone, text a friend verse right now, someone who's not in this room, text an encouraging verse.

Nick Clason (11:52)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Ronald (12:03)
so that you can be a light in their life, right? It's both and, right? So I don't like telling a kid, hey, cell phones are the devil, you should never have one. And I don't like telling parents, just give your kid a phone and don't worry about it, because it's absolutely both and.

Nick Clason (12:08)
Yeah. Yeah.

Right.

Yeah, yeah. Well, and that's honestly, that's exactly like what I feel like my entire podcast is predicated on. what this started out of, I don't know, I guess like a moment of frustration and a little bit of like an inflection point. like we'd gone pretty hard in on like digital ministry during COVID. I was working in Chicago and so it was necessitated, like it had to happen.

But then we found some really fun and cool wins out of doing ministry in a digital sort of context and some opportunities that actually opened up for us that weren't available to us doing ministry pre-COVID. And so as we were all sort of coming back from, you know, restrictions and lockdown and all those types of things, we were then trying to navigate this like tension between like how much should we swing the pendulum, right? And so my whole, like my whole thing, like the whole name of this like hybrid ministry is like,

Ronald (13:08)
Yeah.

Nick Clason (13:13)
It's not just your digital, but it's not just your in-person. It's kind of that both and, and I think in all of life, it's easier for us. We like to draw hard and hard and fast lines and be like, cell phones are bad. So you should not, but I like your, you know, your Ferrari example because you have to work, you have to work up to it. You don't just earn it immediately. And so like my contention is as much as we, especially older generations want to lament cell phones and how difficult they are for

ministry and connection and they are like in some cases they definitely are, but like there's also a lot of good, you know, that comes out of them. your friend a verse or group chats. Like group chats are such a simple thing that didn't exist. Was it 10 years ago? 15 years ago? Like even if you have people with Android, like group chats are still a way to stay connected, you know, to one another. but you know, so like that's, that's kind of like my contention is like

Ronald (13:54)
Mm-hmm.

No, you can't connect with people with Androids over group chat. It doesn't happen.

Nick Clason (14:11)
we have to help students navigate this well and not just settle for the easy answer of just throw your cell phone in a river. It's terrible and it's the enemy. And if we think that, then why are we getting our kids these things for Christmas? It's like, I just need to call them at practice. Okay, but now you've opened Pandora's box and that's not necessarily a bad thing, not condemning any parent for doing that. I'm just saying now we have to help them navigate that well, both at the parent level and also while we're like...

Ronald (14:20)
Yeah. Yeah.

Absolutely.

Nick Clason (14:40)
navigating and managing that within like our student ministries.

Ronald (14:44)
Sure, and it's just as important as showing your kid what you version can do and be like, hey, you know what's really cool about you version? It's a Bible reading plan. Let's you and me do it together, parent and kid. Or, hey, as a ministry, we're gonna do this month long Bible reading plan. That's on your phone. Yeah, it's absolutely being able to use the tools that are available to us, because we could have said the same thing about lamenting the invention of the car, taking away our, aw man, we're not as

Nick Clason (14:50)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Course privileges.

Ronald (15:14)
connected. So yeah, and since this is the middle school ministry podcast too, it matters to a middle school student what you model to them. Because they take that to heart. so my whole thing was not trying to judge those who had a cell phone. But yeah, absolutely. If they're going to be on YouTube,

Nick Clason (15:22)
Mm-hmm.

Mm.

Mm-hmm.

Ronald (15:44)
watching you know Mr. Beast do whatever Mr. Beast does then I kind of also want them to hear from their youth pastor every now and then and so that's an easy thing to do like you pastor to take your phone spend five minutes making five reels and then or five shorts for YouTube and be like hey look my kids are gonna get some encouragement for me this week that's it's out there

Nick Clason (15:51)
Why not? Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I absolutely. And one thing I've noticed and I've seen in like studies and stuff here recently is like, you know, Gen X boomers even have all sort of like settled in on Facebook millennials. Are you millennial, Ronald? Yeah. All right. Me too. Me too. Instagram, right? It's kind of like millennials favorite platform. Gen Z sort of like made tick tock its thing. We're noticing

Ronald (16:22)
yes, and how dare you.

Mm-hmm.

Nick Clason (16:34)
Jen Alpha's making YouTube kind of their spot. And I, yeah. And I even read that it, for Jen Alpha, it's taking the place of Google as its preferred search engine. And so what an opportunity for us like to be on there, you know, and for middle school kids to see us, to see their youth pastor, to maybe even see themselves or their friends from youth group. You know, if you post shorts, reels, all that type of stuff on there, like

Ronald (16:36)
Yeah, it is YouTube.

Absolutely.

Nick Clason (17:01)
You're so right. Like it's such a fantastic opportunity. it really, just exactly what my whole goal with hybrid is like showing up where they are. Like if they're on YouTube, how cool is it? Like they can get on there and they can watch MrBeast who's all across the country and also their church.

Ronald (17:17)
Well, and to even use the platform like it's currently being used then, how cool would it be if your kid typed in how to study the Bible and they got an answer from their youth pastor immediately? Like you already had a five minute video on how to study the Bible that you had prepared for your kids and it was there, right? Because that's how they're using the platform.

Nick Clason (17:30)
Right? Yeah. Exactly.

Exactly. Yeah, it's not just like, it's not just there for you as a youth pastor to have another channel for announcements, though you can be, but I would, what I encourage people to do is use the platforms for their intended uses. And so if you're going to use it for a thing that you think is what your ministry needs, but it's not in alignment with the intended use of the platform, you're not going to see the same types of results than if you actually use it for what it's being used for, which is answering specific questions.

Ronald (17:46)
Mm-hmm.

Yep. Yep.

Nick Clason (18:09)
And frankly, entertainment, right? And maybe like a little bit of inspiration too. So that's good. So what would you say to a middle school youth pastor or any youth pastor out there, like who's got people in their church like you and like me who are a little leery about cell phone, cell phone usage, middle school. Like what's the, how would you coach them, you know, to either lean in and have that conversation or.

Ronald (18:26)
Mm-hmm.

Nick Clason (18:38)
with parents or how to like manage maybe some of that potential like turbulent waters of, you know, angry parents who think cell phones are evil and of the devil.

Ronald (18:48)
You know what's funny is when I first started in ministry, there was a big deal where we said, don't bring any cell phones to camp. And then there was a really turbulent season in between when we arrived to my kid as a parent saying, my kid will bring their phone to camp or they're not going.

Nick Clason (18:58)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

yeah.

Ronald (19:18)
And so navigating that in between, I think there are far fewer parents who are going to say that a cell phone is evil. They might be saying, my kid has to have one because I need to be connected and know what's up with my kid at all times.

Nick Clason (19:27)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Ronald (19:35)
which is a different type of unhealth, that's fine. We can go from there. To help a youth pastor navigate the cell phones. Cell phones are bad, right? A cell phone is the same, to use the car analogy. It's a tool. can take you someplace great. It can take you someplace awful. And if you want to be the youth pastor who's like, no cell phones in the youth room. They go in this box over here and we use paper Bible still. Like that's fine.

Nick Clason (19:45)
Yeah.

Yeah, you can do that. Yeah, yeah.

Ronald (20:04)
if you explain that, right? As long as you're saying, why we do this as a ministry, this is the vision, this is what we're trying to accomplish. Do that, but you're going to have parents who, when you go to camp, when you go to retreat, they're gonna push back on you and be like, hey, my kid is going to take their cell phone. I don't care what their rules are.

Nick Clason (20:28)
Yeah. Well, like when did you get a cell phone? Like how old were you when you got a cell phone? Yeah.

Ronald (20:31)
I was 16 and I got a cell phone because my parents were afraid that I was going to get lost when I started driving by myself. So I got my dad's secretary's old Nokia phone.

Nick Clason (20:45)
But so you're 16, right? And now you're the type of parent in that particular age bracket and demographic, you're sending your daughter's kids to camp. like that's all, know, cell phones from the age of 16 for you and on up. Like I was about the same, you know, so here in a couple of years when my kids are old enough to go to camp, I only, that's my like comfort zone, you know? And so like I get their scary stuff on it, but

Ronald (20:56)
Yeah. Yeah.

Nick Clason (21:14)
It's also gonna, it's not, you're not never gonna give your kid a cell phone. So how do we, and that's my thing, how do we help lean in and teach them the good things of it? Put good, good rules and guidelines and guardrails all around it so that you're hopefully protecting your kids and having conversations, you know, with it.

Ronald (21:25)
Yeah.

It's exactly that. It's continued conversations with kids. And even as a parent being okay to say, these are our non-cell phone times to where we're going to talk. I know parents who like to say no phones in the car because that 15 minute, 20 minute drive can be like, hey, we can actually have a conversation as we drive around. But just having conversations about your phone usage. Hey, who are you following? Hey.

Nick Clason (21:35)
That's it, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, so true.

Mm-hmm.

Ronald (22:00)
I or even telling like I will do this with my girls. I'll send them goofy videos and goofy memes Not because I think they're the funniest thing in the world But I'm trying to connect with them on their level like to my own kids and so like It's funny because they don't have social media what I'm doing is screen recording a funny reel I saw and then sending that to them as a message

Nick Clason (22:09)
Yeah, yeah.

Yeah dude. Yeah, for sure.

Bro, that's so committed, but I love it. Like that's, you you're like, we're not doing the social media thing, but I still want you to see this thing that I saw on social media and it's funny. So you'll like it. It's great.

Ronald (22:34)
Yeah, and I want you to know that I'm thinking of you throughout the day. I want you to laugh. This is a funny thing. And yeah, phones aren't the devil. Yeah, so it's trying to continually have a conversation with your kid. And even where you're saying, hopefully they're coming to you and being like, my friend is being dumb in the group chat. They go, okay, what did they say? Talking through what's good to text, what's not good to text, how...

Nick Clason (22:43)
That's great,

Ronald (23:02)
inflection matters and be like, Hey, I know you hate it, but this might be a FaceTime moment because it sounds like you guys are not seeing each other texting back and forth. Maybe you need to like actually talk.

Nick Clason (23:12)
Yeah. Yeah, man, that's so good. Well, anything else, Ronald, before we hang this sucker up?

Ronald (23:19)
I think the most important thing a parent can do with their kid and having a phone is have some guidelines and have lots of conversations. I think if you stick into those two places, like you're gonna be in a spot where maybe sometimes it's uncomfortable, maybe it's sometimes you're giving a little bit more, you're giving more unearned responsibility away than you're ready for, but like that's parenting as a whole. You don't want your 18 year old kid.

to get a cell phone and all social media all at once and be like, well, now I'm gonna learn everything. It's much, I think it's a much better experience for you and the kid if you walk them through the process together with you in the driver's seat sometimes and them in the driver's seat sometimes.

Nick Clason (24:04)
That's good. Yeah, actually, if anyone's listening to this, watching this like here live, like in the next several weeks, like that's what I'm doing on my podcast is I'm doing like some parent and kid kind of like tech talks. And so they're like aimed for youth pastors to like curate or have that conversation with like some downloadable worksheets and stuff like that that they can share. because I think that's, that's the key in all of this. Like it's, it's easier to draw a line in the sand and be like, no, this, like this is it. We're not doing that, but like we,

Ronald (24:16)
Mmm, yeah.

Nick Clason (24:34)
That's the phone has not allowed us to do that. It's not going away. So instead we got to figure out how do we lean into it into what's uncomfortable and maybe like uncertain waters, like lean into it to just open up that continued kind of conversation thing. So I think that's, that's so good. So, yo, if you're listening here for me on my channel, go follow everything Ronald's doing, middle school ministry podcast. It's dope. It's all about middle schoolers and he's got dope co-hosts.

Ronald (24:48)
Absolutely.

Yeah. I just want to thank everybody for listening to my podcast, the hybrid ministry podcast. Thank you so much. That's really great. No, and if you're, if you're listening to this from middle school ministry podcast, you should definitely go check out what Nick Clayson is doing over in hybrid ministry. Some really good stuff, some really helpful things to carry the conversation forward when it comes to the digital world and youth ministry.

Nick Clason (25:05)
that you've taken over.

Yeah, no, I love it. So good. And like I said, we both collabed on a little resource. It's free in both of our show notes, so go grab that. that's it, man. We'll talk to guys next time.

Ronald (25:34)
See you around.

]]> ✏️Collaborative Worksheet
https://share.hsforms.com/1t_3g3O3XTBqI-vq1Orq7ngnumis

🎧 Ronald's Podcast
https://podcast.downloadyouthministry.com/category/middle-school-ministry/

DESCRIPTION
In this conversation, Nick Clason and Ronald Long discuss the challenges and opportunities of youth ministry in the digital age, particularly focusing on the role of technology and cell phones among middle schoolers. They explore the importance of engagement in content creation, the necessity of guidelines for responsible phone use, and the balance between digital and in-person ministry. The discussion emphasizes the need for open conversations between parents and children regarding technology, as well as collaborative resources for youth pastors to navigate these challenges effectively.

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⌚TIMECODES
00:00 The Role of Technology in Middle School Ministry
04:50 Guidelines for Responsible Cell Phone Use
09:50 Balancing Digital and In-Person Youth Ministry
14:53 Encouraging Healthy Conversations About Technology
20:01 Collaborative Resources for Youth Pastors

TRANSCRIPT
Nick Clason (00:00)
What's up everybody? I'm Nick and this is.

Ronald (00:04)
Hey guys, I'm Ronald Long. How you doing?

Nick Clason (00:06)
We're excited to be here, Ronald. This is a weird thing. This is your show, this is my show, this is our show.

Ronald (00:08)
we are excited to be here.

Whose show is it really? That's a question.

Nick Clason (00:15)
That is the question that people want to know the answer to.

Ronald (00:19)
Did I just take over hybrid youth ministry? I think I did. I did. great. This is mine now. And yours? You get middle school ministry. Yeah, this is it. Tell Andrea. no.

Nick Clason (00:23)
You did, you did. Yeah. Welcome. Well, actually, yeah, and I'm taking over middle school. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you have exactly. Bye, Andrea. Bye. Anyway, you know, Ronald, it's interesting and I'm excited to have this conversation because probably the biggest, one of the biggest pushbacks I get when I'm pushing stuff like in my hybrid ministry, just idea and whatnot is what about middle schoolers?

especially like in our context, we don't get middle schoolers until like, or we get them at sixth grade, which there's an inflection point. And depending on the conservative nature of your church, there could be a lot of those students that have cell phones. And then a lot of students that don't, you know? And so like my main thing with hybrid ministry is trying to intersect people where they are. And I think the cell phone is just a great spot to try and aim for. Right. But what about those middle schoolers that are young and like don't have cell phones? And so.

Ronald (00:57)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Nick Clason (01:21)
I'm excited to have this conversation with you because you as a lifelong middle school youth pastor and host of podcasts, like you and a dad of daughters in that age age range, right? Like I want to hear your perspective because I'm it feels to me and you can correct me if I'm wrong, but it feels to me like middle schoolers kind of run the gamut. Some that don't even have access to any technology and then some that are just all in way too much. You're a little scared for their well-being, you know.

Ronald (01:29)
EW.

Yeah.

Absolutely, and you're right because their parents also run the gambit too. So for people listening who don't know, I have in my house four teenage daughters. I have 18 year old senior graduating this year, then I have a freshman, a seventh grader, and a fifth grader. So I've got everybody.

Nick Clason (01:54)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, you're right there.

Ronald (02:15)
And my elementary school kid who's in fifth grade, Ruth is telling me about like her friends who have cell phones and have had cell phones since like third and fourth grade. Like that's just been their reality. They have always had a phone. Think of the iPad kid who just like parents are like, yeah, whatever here, right? Here's just the next step up. Go ahead and have a phone. Don't care. Put whatever on it. And then like,

Nick Clason (02:42)
So

Ronald (02:45)
me and my family, this has become our rule, it was our rule with our first, you get your cell phone at the end of fifth grade. And so, and we'll talk a little bit more about this too because I have really appreciated what other parents like told me and helped me figure out. That cell phone only can do a couple things, right? And we stair-step eventually through it.

Nick Clason (02:54)
Okay.

Hmm. So as we like lean into this, first of all, everyone should know, no matter where you're listening, hit the link down below, because Ronald and I put together kind of like a collaborative hybrid ministry for middle schoolers kind of resource. So take it, download it, use it, share it with your parents, whatever you want to do. But especially like here we are post-Christmas, and isn't it so true that most middle schoolers

Ronald (03:30)
Use it.

Nick Clason (03:41)
there's a lot of technology that's given under the tree. And so this is just a very timely conversation, right? Like let's talk about technology use and middle schoolers. give us, like, why you start there where you did a little bit, like dive a little deeper into that. Fifth grader, that's your rule. Is that your recommendation? Do you take it, would you recommend parents take that on more of a case by case type basis? What's the wisdom principle in that, or is it?

Ronald (03:44)
100%.

yeah.

Nick Clason (04:08)
you know, hard and fast, like, yeah, as soon as they're done with fifth grade, they're mature enough to have a cell phone or like, what's your, how do you make that decision? I guess, or how would you coach parents to make that decision?

Ronald (04:17)
So what we went through and what was kind of like the deciding factor for us is, I live in San Antonio and so we have, once my kid was finished with elementary school, our oldest, she had friends who were splitting up into like the four winds, right? And we wanted to give her a way to stay connected to them and so we were like, okay, we're going to give you a phone, but.

Nick Clason (04:36)
Mm.

Yeah.

Ronald (04:46)
Big stipulations. We had it, it's an iPhone, so we locked it down pretty tight to where she couldn't download any apps without requesting permission, so that's a big deal. There's no browser on it. So in fact, my high schooler just got a browser this year for ninth grade. to put that in, yeah, no browser.

Nick Clason (04:51)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Okay, so that's like all of middle school. Yeah.

Ronald (05:16)
Specifically also, no social media. She actually also just got her first social media, which was Pinterest. you, stair steppin' man. That's a stair step. But that, okay, here's what I tell parents, and here's what I have told parents and what I am taking through. Imagine a cell phone like a car, right? You are, even for the visual.

Nick Clason (05:25)
Okay. Which, does that even count? know, like that's one of those fringe ones.

For sure.

Mm-hmm.

Ronald (05:46)
You're giving keys away to your kid. for the audio too. on. There we go. Little foley. Little foley for our audio listeners. You don't just give the Ferrari away to a 16 year old or a 15 year old and say, right, go figure that out. guess you know more about this than I do. Like, no, no.

Nick Clason (05:46)
There you go.

Those are car keys, people. Ronald's jingling them. We'll narrate this.

Yeah.

Ronald (06:15)
you start that kid backing in and out of your driveway in the beater, right? And so we took that principle and applied it to our kids having cell phones. So like, okay, you're going to get like a not great iPhones, not the brand new one. It's going to be like, the one with the one camera. Yeah. The one camera type deal. And we're going to stair step you through this. Well, that's just an Android, Nick. That's what you.

Nick Clason (06:30)
Mm-hmm. me down. Yeah.

Maybe some crack screens like my Android here.

The glass is apparently weaker.

Ronald (06:45)
That's fine. No, and so we've stair-stepped. so my seventh grader who has a phone, also has a phone in middle school, has a phone but doesn't have, again, social media doesn't have a browser. And we also put like a stipulation on where the phone can go. My girls, I live in a two-story house. All the bedrooms are upstairs. No phones upstairs. Like that's a rule for us. And so when ...

Nick Clason (07:11)
Great rule, by the way. I approve. Yeah.

Ronald (07:14)
When it's time to go to bed, the charger's downstairs and they have to charge their phone downstairs. No phones at the dinner table. In fact, even it's no phones after dinner. So we say, hey, get it done after dinner, no phones. Those are just like things that we have done as a family to be like, hey, here's the deal. We are going to give you permission that expands with responsibility. And then also cool thing as a parent, my kids don't have a cell phone after supper.

Nick Clason (07:18)
Yeah, good.

Mmm. It's good. It's good.

Mm-hmm.

Ronald (07:44)
So if I'm just scrolling on my cell phone after supper, they're like, hey dad, what are you doing? I'm like, yeah, you're right. I need to be off my phone. I need to pay attention to you.

Nick Clason (07:46)
They're calling you out.

That's so smart. That's just like built in accountability right there, for sure. Yeah. And you know, the thing that I, I try and tell parents as well in our context and other youth ministry avenues and whatever, honestly, just like a lot of times the question is what product or what resource do you use to like monitor like your kids screen usage and all those types of things. And rest assured, there are a million different like resources and things out there that you can use and you can lean into.

Ronald (07:57)
It's huge.

Absolutely.

Nick Clason (08:22)
But at the end of the day, the goal is for that thing not to become your kid's parent. The goal is for you to be the parent of it. Right. And so I love your rules because those guidelines are things that you've put in place. Like you can lock down an iPhone all you want, but you can still abuse it if it's in the room and they're on it until way after bedtime or you know, the no, no phones after dinner thing. Like there can be indiscriminate use or just like mindless use of it. And so.

Ronald (08:50)
Mm-hmm.

Nick Clason (08:51)
You're being proactive and in on top of it, you know, and that's, that's what I really like and appreciate because that's the tech. There's always a workaround in the technology. That's what I've found. Like there's no foolproof piece of technology. It's always a work.

Ronald (09:02)
Heck yeah.

No, I figured it out when I was dealing dial-up modem internet and my parents had the protective things when I was in high school. like, I can figure this out, you know? So no amount of blocking software or things like that will get around actual discipleship of your kids. Because you are a person who is imperfect, just like your kids. They're gonna make mistakes. So what do do?

Nick Clason (09:10)
Yeah.

Exactly. Yeah.

Yeah, for sure.

That's it. That's it. That's good. That's good. Let's shift gears a little bit then. Let's talk about your, how you've noticed technology, cell phones, whatever, within actual confines of youth ministry. Not just, you you parenting your kids with it, but like, what's it like navigating? Cause in a lot of cases, like we said, you got kids that don't even have it at all versus kids who are like using and fully on like all the social apps. So.

Ronald (09:36)
Like, how do you figure that out? Big deal.

Yeah.

Nick Clason (10:03)
What was your typical practice as a middle school pastor with technology?

Ronald (10:10)
Yeah, of it was just being open about that being a potential barrier between you and other people. And the other thing was not, because I was in a real conservative context, there was almost like some judgment to kids who did have a phone, which was really funny. And so I had to like stamp, yeah, I'm glad you get it. So.

Nick Clason (10:28)
Mm

Yeah, same here by the way, so I can relate to that.

Ronald (10:39)
On the one hand, whenever I had a parent being like, you know what, my kid just say that they don't connect very, they don't have any friends in youth ministry. And I'm looking at their kid, I so remember this one specific instance of girl, phone here, face down, and even her hair like covered the side of her face to where all it was, and she was in a corner on her phone looking down at it and not engaging with the room.

Nick Clason (10:59)
Yeah.

Ronald (11:07)
And then like I got a email three weeks later being like, my daughter is just not making any friends. I'm like, yeah, no joke. I've tried. And so trying to have a conversation with students where it's both not being judgmental, but also making sure they're aware of like, hey guys, if you feel lonely, one of the reasons in a list might be you're on your phone too much and you're missing what's going on right in front of you.

Nick Clason (11:13)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Ronald (11:36)
you care more about your online persona or the next funny video than you do your friend who's literally sitting three feet away from you. so trying to navigate that well was always the thing. And so that would just be like application. But on the other hand, you can do that in really great ways to be like, Hey guys, if you've got a phone, text a friend verse right now, someone who's not in this room, text an encouraging verse.

Nick Clason (11:52)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Ronald (12:03)
so that you can be a light in their life, right? It's both and, right? So I don't like telling a kid, hey, cell phones are the devil, you should never have one. And I don't like telling parents, just give your kid a phone and don't worry about it, because it's absolutely both and.

Nick Clason (12:08)
Yeah. Yeah.

Right.

Yeah, yeah. Well, and that's honestly, that's exactly like what I feel like my entire podcast is predicated on. what this started out of, I don't know, I guess like a moment of frustration and a little bit of like an inflection point. like we'd gone pretty hard in on like digital ministry during COVID. I was working in Chicago and so it was necessitated, like it had to happen.

But then we found some really fun and cool wins out of doing ministry in a digital sort of context and some opportunities that actually opened up for us that weren't available to us doing ministry pre-COVID. And so as we were all sort of coming back from, you know, restrictions and lockdown and all those types of things, we were then trying to navigate this like tension between like how much should we swing the pendulum, right? And so my whole, like my whole thing, like the whole name of this like hybrid ministry is like,

Ronald (13:08)
Yeah.

Nick Clason (13:13)
It's not just your digital, but it's not just your in-person. It's kind of that both and, and I think in all of life, it's easier for us. We like to draw hard and hard and fast lines and be like, cell phones are bad. So you should not, but I like your, you know, your Ferrari example because you have to work, you have to work up to it. You don't just earn it immediately. And so like my contention is as much as we, especially older generations want to lament cell phones and how difficult they are for

ministry and connection and they are like in some cases they definitely are, but like there's also a lot of good, you know, that comes out of them. your friend a verse or group chats. Like group chats are such a simple thing that didn't exist. Was it 10 years ago? 15 years ago? Like even if you have people with Android, like group chats are still a way to stay connected, you know, to one another. but you know, so like that's, that's kind of like my contention is like

Ronald (13:54)
Mm-hmm.

No, you can't connect with people with Androids over group chat. It doesn't happen.

Nick Clason (14:11)
we have to help students navigate this well and not just settle for the easy answer of just throw your cell phone in a river. It's terrible and it's the enemy. And if we think that, then why are we getting our kids these things for Christmas? It's like, I just need to call them at practice. Okay, but now you've opened Pandora's box and that's not necessarily a bad thing, not condemning any parent for doing that. I'm just saying now we have to help them navigate that well, both at the parent level and also while we're like...

Ronald (14:20)
Yeah. Yeah.

Absolutely.

Nick Clason (14:40)
navigating and managing that within like our student ministries.

Ronald (14:44)
Sure, and it's just as important as showing your kid what you version can do and be like, hey, you know what's really cool about you version? It's a Bible reading plan. Let's you and me do it together, parent and kid. Or, hey, as a ministry, we're gonna do this month long Bible reading plan. That's on your phone. Yeah, it's absolutely being able to use the tools that are available to us, because we could have said the same thing about lamenting the invention of the car, taking away our, aw man, we're not as

Nick Clason (14:50)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Course privileges.

Ronald (15:14)
connected. So yeah, and since this is the middle school ministry podcast too, it matters to a middle school student what you model to them. Because they take that to heart. so my whole thing was not trying to judge those who had a cell phone. But yeah, absolutely. If they're going to be on YouTube,

Nick Clason (15:22)
Mm-hmm.

Mm.

Mm-hmm.

Ronald (15:44)
watching you know Mr. Beast do whatever Mr. Beast does then I kind of also want them to hear from their youth pastor every now and then and so that's an easy thing to do like you pastor to take your phone spend five minutes making five reels and then or five shorts for YouTube and be like hey look my kids are gonna get some encouragement for me this week that's it's out there

Nick Clason (15:51)
Why not? Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I absolutely. And one thing I've noticed and I've seen in like studies and stuff here recently is like, you know, Gen X boomers even have all sort of like settled in on Facebook millennials. Are you millennial, Ronald? Yeah. All right. Me too. Me too. Instagram, right? It's kind of like millennials favorite platform. Gen Z sort of like made tick tock its thing. We're noticing

Ronald (16:22)
yes, and how dare you.

Mm-hmm.

Nick Clason (16:34)
Jen Alpha's making YouTube kind of their spot. And I, yeah. And I even read that it, for Jen Alpha, it's taking the place of Google as its preferred search engine. And so what an opportunity for us like to be on there, you know, and for middle school kids to see us, to see their youth pastor, to maybe even see themselves or their friends from youth group. You know, if you post shorts, reels, all that type of stuff on there, like

Ronald (16:36)
Yeah, it is YouTube.

Absolutely.

Nick Clason (17:01)
You're so right. Like it's such a fantastic opportunity. it really, just exactly what my whole goal with hybrid is like showing up where they are. Like if they're on YouTube, how cool is it? Like they can get on there and they can watch MrBeast who's all across the country and also their church.

Ronald (17:17)
Well, and to even use the platform like it's currently being used then, how cool would it be if your kid typed in how to study the Bible and they got an answer from their youth pastor immediately? Like you already had a five minute video on how to study the Bible that you had prepared for your kids and it was there, right? Because that's how they're using the platform.

Nick Clason (17:30)
Right? Yeah. Exactly.

Exactly. Yeah, it's not just like, it's not just there for you as a youth pastor to have another channel for announcements, though you can be, but I would, what I encourage people to do is use the platforms for their intended uses. And so if you're going to use it for a thing that you think is what your ministry needs, but it's not in alignment with the intended use of the platform, you're not going to see the same types of results than if you actually use it for what it's being used for, which is answering specific questions.

Ronald (17:46)
Mm-hmm.

Yep. Yep.

Nick Clason (18:09)
And frankly, entertainment, right? And maybe like a little bit of inspiration too. So that's good. So what would you say to a middle school youth pastor or any youth pastor out there, like who's got people in their church like you and like me who are a little leery about cell phone, cell phone usage, middle school. Like what's the, how would you coach them, you know, to either lean in and have that conversation or.

Ronald (18:26)
Mm-hmm.

Nick Clason (18:38)
with parents or how to like manage maybe some of that potential like turbulent waters of, you know, angry parents who think cell phones are evil and of the devil.

Ronald (18:48)
You know what's funny is when I first started in ministry, there was a big deal where we said, don't bring any cell phones to camp. And then there was a really turbulent season in between when we arrived to my kid as a parent saying, my kid will bring their phone to camp or they're not going.

Nick Clason (18:58)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

yeah.

Ronald (19:18)
And so navigating that in between, I think there are far fewer parents who are going to say that a cell phone is evil. They might be saying, my kid has to have one because I need to be connected and know what's up with my kid at all times.

Nick Clason (19:27)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Ronald (19:35)
which is a different type of unhealth, that's fine. We can go from there. To help a youth pastor navigate the cell phones. Cell phones are bad, right? A cell phone is the same, to use the car analogy. It's a tool. can take you someplace great. It can take you someplace awful. And if you want to be the youth pastor who's like, no cell phones in the youth room. They go in this box over here and we use paper Bible still. Like that's fine.

Nick Clason (19:45)
Yeah.

Yeah, you can do that. Yeah, yeah.

Ronald (20:04)
if you explain that, right? As long as you're saying, why we do this as a ministry, this is the vision, this is what we're trying to accomplish. Do that, but you're going to have parents who, when you go to camp, when you go to retreat, they're gonna push back on you and be like, hey, my kid is going to take their cell phone. I don't care what their rules are.

Nick Clason (20:28)
Yeah. Well, like when did you get a cell phone? Like how old were you when you got a cell phone? Yeah.

Ronald (20:31)
I was 16 and I got a cell phone because my parents were afraid that I was going to get lost when I started driving by myself. So I got my dad's secretary's old Nokia phone.

Nick Clason (20:45)
But so you're 16, right? And now you're the type of parent in that particular age bracket and demographic, you're sending your daughter's kids to camp. like that's all, know, cell phones from the age of 16 for you and on up. Like I was about the same, you know, so here in a couple of years when my kids are old enough to go to camp, I only, that's my like comfort zone, you know? And so like I get their scary stuff on it, but

Ronald (20:56)
Yeah. Yeah.

Nick Clason (21:14)
It's also gonna, it's not, you're not never gonna give your kid a cell phone. So how do we, and that's my thing, how do we help lean in and teach them the good things of it? Put good, good rules and guidelines and guardrails all around it so that you're hopefully protecting your kids and having conversations, you know, with it.

Ronald (21:25)
Yeah.

It's exactly that. It's continued conversations with kids. And even as a parent being okay to say, these are our non-cell phone times to where we're going to talk. I know parents who like to say no phones in the car because that 15 minute, 20 minute drive can be like, hey, we can actually have a conversation as we drive around. But just having conversations about your phone usage. Hey, who are you following? Hey.

Nick Clason (21:35)
That's it, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, so true.

Mm-hmm.

Ronald (22:00)
I or even telling like I will do this with my girls. I'll send them goofy videos and goofy memes Not because I think they're the funniest thing in the world But I'm trying to connect with them on their level like to my own kids and so like It's funny because they don't have social media what I'm doing is screen recording a funny reel I saw and then sending that to them as a message

Nick Clason (22:09)
Yeah, yeah.

Yeah dude. Yeah, for sure.

Bro, that's so committed, but I love it. Like that's, you you're like, we're not doing the social media thing, but I still want you to see this thing that I saw on social media and it's funny. So you'll like it. It's great.

Ronald (22:34)
Yeah, and I want you to know that I'm thinking of you throughout the day. I want you to laugh. This is a funny thing. And yeah, phones aren't the devil. Yeah, so it's trying to continually have a conversation with your kid. And even where you're saying, hopefully they're coming to you and being like, my friend is being dumb in the group chat. They go, okay, what did they say? Talking through what's good to text, what's not good to text, how...

Nick Clason (22:43)
That's great,

Ronald (23:02)
inflection matters and be like, Hey, I know you hate it, but this might be a FaceTime moment because it sounds like you guys are not seeing each other texting back and forth. Maybe you need to like actually talk.

Nick Clason (23:12)
Yeah. Yeah, man, that's so good. Well, anything else, Ronald, before we hang this sucker up?

Ronald (23:19)
I think the most important thing a parent can do with their kid and having a phone is have some guidelines and have lots of conversations. I think if you stick into those two places, like you're gonna be in a spot where maybe sometimes it's uncomfortable, maybe it's sometimes you're giving a little bit more, you're giving more unearned responsibility away than you're ready for, but like that's parenting as a whole. You don't want your 18 year old kid.

to get a cell phone and all social media all at once and be like, well, now I'm gonna learn everything. It's much, I think it's a much better experience for you and the kid if you walk them through the process together with you in the driver's seat sometimes and them in the driver's seat sometimes.

Nick Clason (24:04)
That's good. Yeah, actually, if anyone's listening to this, watching this like here live, like in the next several weeks, like that's what I'm doing on my podcast is I'm doing like some parent and kid kind of like tech talks. And so they're like aimed for youth pastors to like curate or have that conversation with like some downloadable worksheets and stuff like that that they can share. because I think that's, that's the key in all of this. Like it's, it's easier to draw a line in the sand and be like, no, this, like this is it. We're not doing that, but like we,

Ronald (24:16)
Mmm, yeah.

Nick Clason (24:34)
That's the phone has not allowed us to do that. It's not going away. So instead we got to figure out how do we lean into it into what's uncomfortable and maybe like uncertain waters, like lean into it to just open up that continued kind of conversation thing. So I think that's, that's so good. So, yo, if you're listening here for me on my channel, go follow everything Ronald's doing, middle school ministry podcast. It's dope. It's all about middle schoolers and he's got dope co-hosts.

Ronald (24:48)
Absolutely.

Yeah. I just want to thank everybody for listening to my podcast, the hybrid ministry podcast. Thank you so much. That's really great. No, and if you're, if you're listening to this from middle school ministry podcast, you should definitely go check out what Nick Clayson is doing over in hybrid ministry. Some really good stuff, some really helpful things to carry the conversation forward when it comes to the digital world and youth ministry.

Nick Clason (25:05)
that you've taken over.

Yeah, no, I love it. So good. And like I said, we both collabed on a little resource. It's free in both of our show notes, so go grab that. that's it, man. We'll talk to guys next time.

Ronald (25:34)
See you around.

]]> Episode 076: βœ… 7 Part Youth Group Checklist https://www.hybridministry.xyz/076 54b2f7c4-e2bc-4f19-bd54-12128eeefb1f Thu, 21 Dec 2023 06:00:00 -0600 Nick Clason 076 βœ… 7 Part Youth Group Checklist full Nick Clason βœ… In this comprehensive video, we reveal the key to planning effective and engaging social events for your youth group. From icebreakers and team-building activities to creative theme ideas and logistical tips, we've got you covered. 11:36 no <h3>πŸ”₯ [FREE] Social Media Mastery Awaits! Get Your Hands on Our Free One-Month Ebook πŸ”₯</h3> <p>πŸ“… <strong>"1 Month Done for You Social Media Posting Tool"</strong><br> <a href="https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/free-hybrid-ministry-e-book" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/free-hybrid-ministry-e-book</a></p> <p>☝️<strong>ONE-CLICK SOLUTION FOR REELS &amp; SHORTS</strong><br> <em>OPUS FOR AI SHORTS &amp; REELS</em><br> <a href="https://www.opus.pro/?via=a5d361" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">https://www.opus.pro/?via=a5d361</a></p> <p><strong>========================================</strong></p> <p><strong>DESCRIPTION</strong><br> πŸ‘‹ Welcome to our YouTube channel &amp; podcast! </p> <p>βœ… In this comprehensive video, we reveal the key to planning effective and engaging social events for your youth group. From icebreakers and team-building activities to creative theme ideas and logistical tips, we've got you covered. </p> <p>πŸ‘ Discover how to foster a sense of community, encourage meaningful connections, and create a safe and inclusive environment for all participants.</p> YouthGroup #Checklist #EssentialSteps #SuccessfulGathering #YouthMinistry #Youth #Christianity #Church #Community #Leadership #Inspirational #Motivation #Encouragement #Teamwork #FunActivities #Icebreakers #Bonding #Faithbuilding #Engagement #Unity <p><strong>========================================</strong></p> <p><strong>πŸ†“ FREEBIES πŸ†“</strong><br> πŸ“… "<strong>1 Month Done for You Social Media Posting Tool"</strong><br> <a href="https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/free-hybrid-ministry-e-book" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/free-hybrid-ministry-e-book</a></p> <p>πŸŽ… <strong>"The Ultimate (and FREE!) Christmas Party Gude"</strong><br> GUIDE: <a href="https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/christmas-party-run-sheet" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/christmas-party-run-sheet</a><br> PRACTICAL YM TIPS: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@practicalyouthministrytips" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">https://www.youtube.com/@practicalyouthministrytips</a></p> <p>🍩 <strong>"FREE World's Greatest Donut Event Guide"</strong><br> GUIDE: <a href="https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/worlds-greatest-donut" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/worlds-greatest-donut</a></p> <p>😨 "Have I already Ruined my TikTok Account?"<br> <a href="https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/ebook" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/ebook</a></p> <p>πŸ“Ή "Adobe Premiere Pro Presets for Animating Layers"<br> <a href="https://share.hsforms.com/1VL1oWwWwQ82PLwsPFkPITgnumis" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">https://share.hsforms.com/1VL1oWwWwQ82PLwsPFkPITgnumis</a></p> <p><strong>========================================</strong><br> πŸ› οΈ<strong>TOOLS</strong><br> <em><em>Some of the below links are affilate links in which we do recieve a small commission based on your purchase or use of products</em></em><br> //YOUTUBE STARTER KIT FOR UNDER $100<br> <a href="https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/youtubestarterkit" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/youtubestarterkit</a></p> <p>AUTO POD<br> <a href="https://autopod.lemonsqueezy.com?aff=MX7Vv" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">https://autopod.lemonsqueezy.com?aff=MX7Vv</a></p> <p>TRY REV.COM FOR TRANSCRIBING<br> <a href="https://rev.pxf.io/R5nDOa" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">https://rev.pxf.io/R5nDOa</a></p> <p>OPUS.PRO FOR AI SHORTS &amp; REELS</p> <h2><a href="https://www.opus.pro/?via=a5d361" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">https://www.opus.pro/?via=a5d361</a></h2> <p>πŸ‘‰ <strong>STAY CONNECTED WITH NICK</strong><br> YouTube: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@clasonnick" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">https://www.youtube.com/@clasonnick</a><br> Instagram: <a href="https://www.instagram.com/hybridministry/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">https://www.instagram.com/hybridministry/</a><br> TikTok: <a href="https://www.tiktok.com/@clasonnick" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">https://www.tiktok.com/@clasonnick</a><br> Facebook: <a href="https://www.facebook.com/HybridMinistry" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">https://www.facebook.com/HybridMinistry</a></p> <h2>Website: <a href="https://www.hybridministry.xyz" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">https://www.hybridministry.xyz</a> </h2> <p>πŸ““<strong>SHOWNOTES</strong><br> //SHOWNOTES &amp; TRANSCRIPTS<br> <a href="http://www.hybridministry.xyz/076" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">http://www.hybridministry.xyz/076</a></p> <p>//YOUTUBE VIDEO<br> <a href="https://youtu.be/4s-vOknIaQI" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">https://youtu.be/4s-vOknIaQI</a></p> <p><strong>#1 PLANNING</strong><br> //BASECAMP<br> <a href="https://basecamp.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">https://basecamp.com/</a></p> <p>//PLANNING CENTER SERVICES<br> <a href="https://services.planningcenteronline.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">https://services.planningcenteronline.com/</a></p> <p>//GOOGLE DRIVE/DOCS<br> <a href="https://drive.google.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">https://drive.google.com</a><br> <a href="https://https://docs.google.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">https://https://docs.google.com/</a></p> <p><strong>#2 COMMUNICATE</strong><br> //SOCIAL MEDIA MAGIC IN YOUR HANDS<br> <a href="https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/free-hybrid-ministry-e-book" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/free-hybrid-ministry-e-book</a></p> <p><strong>#3 GAMES</strong><br> //DIVE INTO THRILLING GAMES:<br> <a href="https://youtu.be/OiBjI9dMxu8?si=YIVFdYh-6KM8nySP" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">https://youtu.be/OiBjI9dMxu8?si=YIVFdYh-6KM8nySP</a></p> <p>//SEAMLESS BLENDING: THE ULTIMATE HYBIRD EVENT<br> EPISODE: <a href="https://youtu.be/5ryhkIRyDb4?si=qV6v3-ORrgcmLLtZ" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">https://youtu.be/5ryhkIRyDb4?si=qV6v3-ORrgcmLLtZ</a><br> GUIDE: <a href="https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/worlds-greatest-donut" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/worlds-greatest-donut</a></p> <p>//9 BEST DYM RESOURCES<br> <a href="https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/dym" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/dym</a></p> <p><strong>#4 SNACKS</strong></p> <p><strong>#5 PREACHING &amp; TEACHING</strong><br> //TEACHING TO A TIKTOK GENERATION<br> <a href="https://youtu.be/iIgEtxPLGBg?si=7tQYGGyW7kCKq9KS" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">https://youtu.be/iIgEtxPLGBg?si=7tQYGGyW7kCKq9KS</a></p> <p><strong>#6 SMALL GROUPS</strong><br> //SAMPLE SMALL GROUP GUIDE<br> <a href="https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/okmirbzzu6avn0o5knrj3/08_13_2023_RuinSchool_GroupGuide_Week1.pdf?rlkey=ozs2lmz1ewxmehwn89fnqj1u7&amp;dl=0" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/okmirbzzu6avn0o5knrj3/08_13_2023_RuinSchool_GroupGuide_Week1.pdf?rlkey=ozs2lmz1ewxmehwn89fnqj1u7&amp;amp;dl=0</a></p> <p><strong>#7 FOLLOW UP</strong><br> //ENGAGE WITH STUDENTS DURING THE WEEK<br> <a href="https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/free-hybrid-ministry-e-book" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/free-hybrid-ministry-e-book</a></p> <p>//OPUS.PRO<br> <a href="https://youtu.be/TiW4ooQpAvo?si=Ayp7-8W4_QWawi3G" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">https://youtu.be/TiW4ooQpAvo?si=Ayp7-8W4_QWawi3G</a></p> <h2><a href="https://www.opus.pro/?via=a5d361" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">https://www.opus.pro/?via=a5d361</a></h2> <p>πŸ•°οΈ<strong>TIMECODES</strong><br> 00:00-00:44 7 Part Youth Group Checklist<br> 00:44-02:50 1) Always Be Planning<br> 02:50-04:36 2) Communication<br> 04:36-05:47 3) Games<br> 05:47-07:37 4) Snacks<br> 07:37-08:55 5) Preaching &amp; Teaching<br> 08:55-10:09 6) Small Groups<br> 10:09-11:35 7) Follow-Up</p> <hr> <p>✍️<strong>TRANSCRIPT</strong><br> Try Transcribing for Yourself at Rev.Com<br> <a href="http://www.rev.pxf.io/R5nDOa" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">http://www.rev.pxf.io/R5nDOa</a></p> <p>Nick Clason (00:00):<br> Are you a youth pastor, a youth ministry leader, looking to make your gatherings of people your physical gatherings more intricate and maybe even make 'em a little bit more exciting? How do you plan a surefire amazing event? And furthermore, what do you do to hybridize it? Right? My entire strategy in this podcast is to help you take not just your in-person gatherings, but also your digital presence, social media website, and meld those two together so that you can truly have a hybrid ministry. If that's what you're looking for, you're in luck because that is what we're going to be talking about in this episode today. This is the Hybrid Ministry Show, and we have a seven step framework for the Ultimate Youth Group gathering. Let's get going. Number one is you need to be planning. Listen, I am a 13 year youth ministry veteran, and I have learned that the hard way over my time in ministry, there have been so many times where I've been caught at an event without any plan whatsoever, and I am forced to pivot in the moment. </p> <p>Nick Clason (01:00):<br> So it's not only helped me get a little bit more nimble on my feet, but also it's forced me to realize the importance of planning. So there are a couple of really good tools. One that works really well for us in our space is a project management tool called Base Camp. It's quite expensive, but if your church has the budget for it, I recommend at least looking into it, and I'm sure they have a free trial version that you can check out if that's something you're interested in. Also, planning Center online, it's what most people use, especially musicians and such for services and for musicians and disseminating music and stuff like that. But that's a great place to communicate with your tech person, with anyone else that's going to be on stage about what the plan is, what the game is. And so I use that every single week to just let everybody know what is to be expected and what's going to be happening in the actual program of the event. </p> <p>Nick Clason (01:48):<br> Event. And then also just free Google Docs. It's a shared space. If you're in a meeting, everyone can have the same Google Doc up. You don't have to have a whiteboard, you don't have to be in some conference room. You can do it via Zoom. But Google Docs and Google Drive are both great docs for word processing, but Google Drive for file sharing and file storage, and you can link things via Google Docs, but you can use Base Camp. You can use Planning center services. You can use Google, Google Drive. You can use those to your advantage to get ahead to think ahead about what is going to happen in your youth ministry space. And hey, if you're watching this video and you've found value so far, please consider liking subscribing, maybe even sharing with the friend, because it's really important that it helps us out a lot, not for us and the accolades, but for the message of hybrid ministry to get out to the world because we believe that teenagers need the gospel and speaking this digital language, this hybrid ministry is their language that they're used to in this world. So please help us out by liking, subscribing, and sharing. Tip number two is communication. Get the word out. You've done the planning. Now people need to know, and I have this </p> <p>Nick Clason (02:58):<br> Completely free ebook about how to utilize and use social media in your space. Link down below in the description, go check it out. But I believe that social media can be a form of communication as long as you're not just posting boring, rote, standard static graphics, right? If you use it to the way that social media is meant to be used, one of entertainment, one of fun, short form, vertical based video, I will help you with all of those things in this video. But as you're communicating, you need to be thinking on three different tracks. As a youth pastor, student, parent leader, there really are three audiences that you're communicating with. How are you getting the message out to your students? How are you getting the message out to your parents? And then how are you getting the message out to your leaders? And then a fourth kind of pro tip, bonus tip is also over here, the staff that you work with. </p> <p>Nick Clason (03:51):<br> And some of those might cross. Some parents might be leaders, some staff might be parents and all that type of stuff, but those are your three main audiences. I believe that's one of the reasons that youth pastors struggle so much with communication is because you may feel as though you have adequately communicated it, and thus you have to your students. But do all the parents know or is the staff aware of how you're going to be using a different space in the building and then they find you over there and in the kids area because you told the students you're going to be there, but you didn't let the other people on staff know. And so you may have some more conflict with that. So as you're communicating any sort of event that, especially if it's out of cycle, be asking yourself, how do the students know? </p> <p>Nick Clason (04:33):<br> How do the leaders know? How do the parents know? Another thing is games. We did a deep dive on games in this playlist over here called Exploring New Digital Frontiers, and we talked about where did games come from and why is it a part of youth ministry? I also gave some ideas. Another one of my favorite episodes that we did was me debriefing an event we did called The World's Greatest Donut. We had tons of games for it, but it was also an amazing hybrid event. And finally, I have a link in the show notes to some of my DYM favorite games. I've created several resources that are on Download Youth ministry, and they are dirt cheap, 5, 6, 7 bucks. If you don't have a membership, even cheaper if you do. So go check some of those out. I love the game. Emoji Phraseology. I love the game. GIF Flashback, and I love the Game Visual, Variance, Voyage. Those are just a few, but I have several on there. But games are an amazing way to up the level of engagement in your space. Fun is the language of teenagers, and so speak it, get them laughing, get them competing, get them having fun together in your gathering. Another really key element to think about is snacks. I had a meeting with a group of leaders last year, and I invited my wife </p> <p>Nick Clason (05:56):<br> To come be one of the other leaders meeting with these student leaders, I should say, and I asked her, I said, Hey, what's one thing I could do to level this meeting up? What she said, have snacks. When do you go to somebody's house and they don't offer you something to eat or something to drink? Almost never, right? And the same is true in student ministry. Snacks help kind of bring that energy level down a little bit, not energy level, but bring that insecurity level down a little bit. People, their walls are down a little bit. They're willing to engage, come across the table a little bit more when their snacks. I know it sounds crazy. I know it sounds simple. It might even be a budget buster, but maybe consider opening a cafe where people can purchase snacks, maybe put cheap things out. And one thing I've done before is if you do have a cafe, we gave popcorn away for free, but that drove people back to the cafe to buy the drinks. </p> <p>Nick Clason (06:51):<br> There's a reason that bars put peanuts and pretzels out at the table for free because it forces people to buy their drinks. Hey, if you didn't know this, this episode or this channel has a website hybridministry.xyz in every single episode, this is episode. So if you went to hybridministry.xyz slash 0 7 6, we have for you a thing that we do for every single episode. We've done it since episode one, completely free transcripts. That's one of the things that we pay for out of our pocket to serve you and the listener. So if you are listening on a run and you want to go back and hear this, or if you're watching this and you want to take notes, you can go to the website and download a completely free transcript so that you can see everything that we are talking about. Now, element number five of a successful youth gathering is preaching and teaching. </p> <p>Nick Clason (07:45):<br> Like I said, we just did an exploring new digital frontiers, and we did a whole episode on how to teach to a TikTok generation. Previously. This generation on websites and social media have an attention span of 8.25 seconds, which is less than the human pet goldfish, right? So how do you teach to a generation like that? How do you keep things interesting while still presenting the meaningful, purposeful, and important truth of the Bible and the truth from God's word? We dove into that. We also gave some ideas about hybrid message enhancements. Things like you version events, things like websites, things like QR codes, things that can just help take the message beyond just the physical meeting space, but you can offer it and extend it and put it in front of your students on social media, on their devices that they're using throughout the rest of the week, but communicate to them then accurately and effectively in the moment using some of these tips and tricks that we talked about in that episode. </p> <p>Nick Clason (08:48):<br> But teaching and preaching is a vitally important part to youth ministry gatherings. Number six, small groups. You may not have small groups in your space, so if you don't, then find a way to let students digest the message a little bit. If you don't have small groups in your space or you have it another night of the week, consider maybe having your students sit around tables. And then you could do a more like master teacher style thing where you teach for a little bit and then you toss out a couple of questions to the tables to let the students interact. Gen Z does not want to be a consumer. They want to be a contributor. So find a way to let your students voices be heard. Find a way to let them talk about it. Maybe you do have small groups for the last 30 minutes in your student ministry gatherings. </p> <p>Nick Clason (09:37):<br> Have a guide. I'll right here on the screen, you can see the way that we have our guides set up. We have before, during, and after and after, is aimed at our leaders being pastoral to our students. The before is sort of their prep work with the versus and the big ideas. And then during are the questions that we want them to be asking to lead our students from a silly sort of like drop the water level moment, like, hey, some icebreaker type stuff down all the way to some serious things and ending with the group's ending in prayer. </p> <p>Nick Clason (10:10):<br> And finally, when your event's over, number seven, what are you going to do about follow-up? What is your ongoing strategy to stay in front of students throughout the week? Because if you have an hour meeting, but you don't ever get to a spot where you are engaging with them in their real life, what about Thursday morning when they wake up after youth group? What about Monday morning when they're on their way to school and they're on the school bus? Why should they think about the things of God that you were talking about last night or yesterday? Why should they care about those things? Which is one of the reasons I think hybrid ministry is so important, and I have this completely free ebook to help you reach and engage the students in their space to engage with the other hours in the week beyond just your program time. </p> <p>Nick Clason (10:54):<br> It's not just physical, it's not just digital, it is hybrid. And so in that ebook, we also point people to a completely free resource called opus.pro. It will help you clip your messages up into small, short form bite-size videos. But what I want to know is that I want to help you guys understand the importance of gatherings and how you can take the physical gathering, how you can take your digital moments, how you can meld those two. Hope you found this video helpful. On the screen is the next video. Be sure to click that. Be sure to subscribe because we at hybrid ministry are making digital discipleship easy, possible and accessible. So as always, and don't forget, stay hybrid. </p> Hybrid Ministry, Youth Ministry, Youth Ministry Coach, Youth Group Checklist, Essential Steps, SuccessfulGathering, YouthMinistry, Youth, Christianity, Church, Community, Leadership, Inspirational, Motivation, Encouragement, Teamwork, FunActivities, Icebreakers, Bonding, Faithbuilding, Engagement, Unity πŸ”₯ [FREE] Social Media Mastery Awaits! Get Your Hands on Our Free One-Month Ebook πŸ”₯

πŸ“… "1 Month Done for You Social Media Posting Tool"
https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/free-hybrid-ministry-e-book

☝️ONE-CLICK SOLUTION FOR REELS & SHORTS
OPUS FOR AI SHORTS & REELS
https://www.opus.pro/?via=a5d361

========================================

DESCRIPTION
πŸ‘‹ Welcome to our YouTube channel & podcast!

βœ… In this comprehensive video, we reveal the key to planning effective and engaging social events for your youth group. From icebreakers and team-building activities to creative theme ideas and logistical tips, we've got you covered.

πŸ‘ Discover how to foster a sense of community, encourage meaningful connections, and create a safe and inclusive environment for all participants.

YouthGroup #Checklist #EssentialSteps #SuccessfulGathering #YouthMinistry #Youth #Christianity #Church #Community #Leadership #Inspirational #Motivation #Encouragement #Teamwork #FunActivities #Icebreakers #Bonding #Faithbuilding #Engagement #Unity

========================================

πŸ†“ FREEBIES πŸ†“
πŸ“… "1 Month Done for You Social Media Posting Tool"
https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/free-hybrid-ministry-e-book

πŸŽ… "The Ultimate (and FREE!) Christmas Party Gude"
GUIDE: https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/christmas-party-run-sheet
PRACTICAL YM TIPS: https://www.youtube.com/@practicalyouthministrytips

🍩 "FREE World's Greatest Donut Event Guide"
GUIDE: https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/worlds-greatest-donut

😨 "Have I already Ruined my TikTok Account?"
https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/ebook

πŸ“Ή "Adobe Premiere Pro Presets for Animating Layers"
https://share.hsforms.com/1VL1oWwWwQ82PLwsPFkPITgnumis

========================================
πŸ› οΈTOOLS
Some of the below links are affilate links in which we do recieve a small commission based on your purchase or use of products
//YOUTUBE STARTER KIT FOR UNDER $100
https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/youtubestarterkit

AUTO POD
https://autopod.lemonsqueezy.com?aff=MX7Vv

TRY REV.COM FOR TRANSCRIBING
https://rev.pxf.io/R5nDOa

OPUS.PRO FOR AI SHORTS & REELS

https://www.opus.pro/?via=a5d361

πŸ‘‰ STAY CONNECTED WITH NICK
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@clasonnick
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hybridministry/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@clasonnick
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HybridMinistry

Website: https://www.hybridministry.xyz

πŸ““SHOWNOTES
//SHOWNOTES & TRANSCRIPTS
http://www.hybridministry.xyz/076

//YOUTUBE VIDEO
https://youtu.be/4s-vOknIaQI

#1 PLANNING
//BASECAMP
https://basecamp.com/

//PLANNING CENTER SERVICES
https://services.planningcenteronline.com/

//GOOGLE DRIVE/DOCS
https://drive.google.com
https://https://docs.google.com/

#2 COMMUNICATE
//SOCIAL MEDIA MAGIC IN YOUR HANDS
https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/free-hybrid-ministry-e-book

#3 GAMES
//DIVE INTO THRILLING GAMES:
https://youtu.be/OiBjI9dMxu8?si=YIVFdYh-6KM8nySP

//SEAMLESS BLENDING: THE ULTIMATE HYBIRD EVENT
EPISODE: https://youtu.be/5ryhkIRyDb4?si=qV6v3-ORrgcmLLtZ
GUIDE: https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/worlds-greatest-donut

//9 BEST DYM RESOURCES
https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/dym

#4 SNACKS

#5 PREACHING & TEACHING
//TEACHING TO A TIKTOK GENERATION
https://youtu.be/iIgEtxPLGBg?si=7tQYGGyW7kCKq9KS

#6 SMALL GROUPS
//SAMPLE SMALL GROUP GUIDE
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/okmirbzzu6avn0o5knrj3/08_13_2023_RuinSchool_GroupGuide_Week1.pdf?rlkey=ozs2lmz1ewxmehwn89fnqj1u7&dl=0

#7 FOLLOW UP
//ENGAGE WITH STUDENTS DURING THE WEEK
https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/free-hybrid-ministry-e-book

//OPUS.PRO
https://youtu.be/TiW4ooQpAvo?si=Ayp7-8W4_QWawi3G

https://www.opus.pro/?via=a5d361

πŸ•°οΈTIMECODES
00:00-00:44 7 Part Youth Group Checklist
00:44-02:50 1) Always Be Planning
02:50-04:36 2) Communication
04:36-05:47 3) Games
05:47-07:37 4) Snacks
07:37-08:55 5) Preaching & Teaching
08:55-10:09 6) Small Groups
10:09-11:35 7) Follow-Up

✍️TRANSCRIPT
Try Transcribing for Yourself at Rev.Com
http://www.rev.pxf.io/R5nDOa

Nick Clason (00:00):
Are you a youth pastor, a youth ministry leader, looking to make your gatherings of people your physical gatherings more intricate and maybe even make 'em a little bit more exciting? How do you plan a surefire amazing event? And furthermore, what do you do to hybridize it? Right? My entire strategy in this podcast is to help you take not just your in-person gatherings, but also your digital presence, social media website, and meld those two together so that you can truly have a hybrid ministry. If that's what you're looking for, you're in luck because that is what we're going to be talking about in this episode today. This is the Hybrid Ministry Show, and we have a seven step framework for the Ultimate Youth Group gathering. Let's get going. Number one is you need to be planning. Listen, I am a 13 year youth ministry veteran, and I have learned that the hard way over my time in ministry, there have been so many times where I've been caught at an event without any plan whatsoever, and I am forced to pivot in the moment.

Nick Clason (01:00):
So it's not only helped me get a little bit more nimble on my feet, but also it's forced me to realize the importance of planning. So there are a couple of really good tools. One that works really well for us in our space is a project management tool called Base Camp. It's quite expensive, but if your church has the budget for it, I recommend at least looking into it, and I'm sure they have a free trial version that you can check out if that's something you're interested in. Also, planning Center online, it's what most people use, especially musicians and such for services and for musicians and disseminating music and stuff like that. But that's a great place to communicate with your tech person, with anyone else that's going to be on stage about what the plan is, what the game is. And so I use that every single week to just let everybody know what is to be expected and what's going to be happening in the actual program of the event.

Nick Clason (01:48):
Event. And then also just free Google Docs. It's a shared space. If you're in a meeting, everyone can have the same Google Doc up. You don't have to have a whiteboard, you don't have to be in some conference room. You can do it via Zoom. But Google Docs and Google Drive are both great docs for word processing, but Google Drive for file sharing and file storage, and you can link things via Google Docs, but you can use Base Camp. You can use Planning center services. You can use Google, Google Drive. You can use those to your advantage to get ahead to think ahead about what is going to happen in your youth ministry space. And hey, if you're watching this video and you've found value so far, please consider liking subscribing, maybe even sharing with the friend, because it's really important that it helps us out a lot, not for us and the accolades, but for the message of hybrid ministry to get out to the world because we believe that teenagers need the gospel and speaking this digital language, this hybrid ministry is their language that they're used to in this world. So please help us out by liking, subscribing, and sharing. Tip number two is communication. Get the word out. You've done the planning. Now people need to know, and I have this

Nick Clason (02:58):
Completely free ebook about how to utilize and use social media in your space. Link down below in the description, go check it out. But I believe that social media can be a form of communication as long as you're not just posting boring, rote, standard static graphics, right? If you use it to the way that social media is meant to be used, one of entertainment, one of fun, short form, vertical based video, I will help you with all of those things in this video. But as you're communicating, you need to be thinking on three different tracks. As a youth pastor, student, parent leader, there really are three audiences that you're communicating with. How are you getting the message out to your students? How are you getting the message out to your parents? And then how are you getting the message out to your leaders? And then a fourth kind of pro tip, bonus tip is also over here, the staff that you work with.

Nick Clason (03:51):
And some of those might cross. Some parents might be leaders, some staff might be parents and all that type of stuff, but those are your three main audiences. I believe that's one of the reasons that youth pastors struggle so much with communication is because you may feel as though you have adequately communicated it, and thus you have to your students. But do all the parents know or is the staff aware of how you're going to be using a different space in the building and then they find you over there and in the kids area because you told the students you're going to be there, but you didn't let the other people on staff know. And so you may have some more conflict with that. So as you're communicating any sort of event that, especially if it's out of cycle, be asking yourself, how do the students know?

Nick Clason (04:33):
How do the leaders know? How do the parents know? Another thing is games. We did a deep dive on games in this playlist over here called Exploring New Digital Frontiers, and we talked about where did games come from and why is it a part of youth ministry? I also gave some ideas. Another one of my favorite episodes that we did was me debriefing an event we did called The World's Greatest Donut. We had tons of games for it, but it was also an amazing hybrid event. And finally, I have a link in the show notes to some of my DYM favorite games. I've created several resources that are on Download Youth ministry, and they are dirt cheap, 5, 6, 7 bucks. If you don't have a membership, even cheaper if you do. So go check some of those out. I love the game. Emoji Phraseology. I love the game. GIF Flashback, and I love the Game Visual, Variance, Voyage. Those are just a few, but I have several on there. But games are an amazing way to up the level of engagement in your space. Fun is the language of teenagers, and so speak it, get them laughing, get them competing, get them having fun together in your gathering. Another really key element to think about is snacks. I had a meeting with a group of leaders last year, and I invited my wife

Nick Clason (05:56):
To come be one of the other leaders meeting with these student leaders, I should say, and I asked her, I said, Hey, what's one thing I could do to level this meeting up? What she said, have snacks. When do you go to somebody's house and they don't offer you something to eat or something to drink? Almost never, right? And the same is true in student ministry. Snacks help kind of bring that energy level down a little bit, not energy level, but bring that insecurity level down a little bit. People, their walls are down a little bit. They're willing to engage, come across the table a little bit more when their snacks. I know it sounds crazy. I know it sounds simple. It might even be a budget buster, but maybe consider opening a cafe where people can purchase snacks, maybe put cheap things out. And one thing I've done before is if you do have a cafe, we gave popcorn away for free, but that drove people back to the cafe to buy the drinks.

Nick Clason (06:51):
There's a reason that bars put peanuts and pretzels out at the table for free because it forces people to buy their drinks. Hey, if you didn't know this, this episode or this channel has a website hybridministry.xyz in every single episode, this is episode. So if you went to hybridministry.xyz slash 0 7 6, we have for you a thing that we do for every single episode. We've done it since episode one, completely free transcripts. That's one of the things that we pay for out of our pocket to serve you and the listener. So if you are listening on a run and you want to go back and hear this, or if you're watching this and you want to take notes, you can go to the website and download a completely free transcript so that you can see everything that we are talking about. Now, element number five of a successful youth gathering is preaching and teaching.

Nick Clason (07:45):
Like I said, we just did an exploring new digital frontiers, and we did a whole episode on how to teach to a TikTok generation. Previously. This generation on websites and social media have an attention span of 8.25 seconds, which is less than the human pet goldfish, right? So how do you teach to a generation like that? How do you keep things interesting while still presenting the meaningful, purposeful, and important truth of the Bible and the truth from God's word? We dove into that. We also gave some ideas about hybrid message enhancements. Things like you version events, things like websites, things like QR codes, things that can just help take the message beyond just the physical meeting space, but you can offer it and extend it and put it in front of your students on social media, on their devices that they're using throughout the rest of the week, but communicate to them then accurately and effectively in the moment using some of these tips and tricks that we talked about in that episode.

Nick Clason (08:48):
But teaching and preaching is a vitally important part to youth ministry gatherings. Number six, small groups. You may not have small groups in your space, so if you don't, then find a way to let students digest the message a little bit. If you don't have small groups in your space or you have it another night of the week, consider maybe having your students sit around tables. And then you could do a more like master teacher style thing where you teach for a little bit and then you toss out a couple of questions to the tables to let the students interact. Gen Z does not want to be a consumer. They want to be a contributor. So find a way to let your students voices be heard. Find a way to let them talk about it. Maybe you do have small groups for the last 30 minutes in your student ministry gatherings.

Nick Clason (09:37):
Have a guide. I'll right here on the screen, you can see the way that we have our guides set up. We have before, during, and after and after, is aimed at our leaders being pastoral to our students. The before is sort of their prep work with the versus and the big ideas. And then during are the questions that we want them to be asking to lead our students from a silly sort of like drop the water level moment, like, hey, some icebreaker type stuff down all the way to some serious things and ending with the group's ending in prayer.

Nick Clason (10:10):
And finally, when your event's over, number seven, what are you going to do about follow-up? What is your ongoing strategy to stay in front of students throughout the week? Because if you have an hour meeting, but you don't ever get to a spot where you are engaging with them in their real life, what about Thursday morning when they wake up after youth group? What about Monday morning when they're on their way to school and they're on the school bus? Why should they think about the things of God that you were talking about last night or yesterday? Why should they care about those things? Which is one of the reasons I think hybrid ministry is so important, and I have this completely free ebook to help you reach and engage the students in their space to engage with the other hours in the week beyond just your program time.

Nick Clason (10:54):
It's not just physical, it's not just digital, it is hybrid. And so in that ebook, we also point people to a completely free resource called opus.pro. It will help you clip your messages up into small, short form bite-size videos. But what I want to know is that I want to help you guys understand the importance of gatherings and how you can take the physical gathering, how you can take your digital moments, how you can meld those two. Hope you found this video helpful. On the screen is the next video. Be sure to click that. Be sure to subscribe because we at hybrid ministry are making digital discipleship easy, possible and accessible. So as always, and don't forget, stay hybrid.

]]> πŸ”₯ [FREE] Social Media Mastery Awaits! Get Your Hands on Our Free One-Month Ebook πŸ”₯

πŸ“… "1 Month Done for You Social Media Posting Tool"
https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/free-hybrid-ministry-e-book

☝️ONE-CLICK SOLUTION FOR REELS & SHORTS
OPUS FOR AI SHORTS & REELS
https://www.opus.pro/?via=a5d361

========================================

DESCRIPTION
πŸ‘‹ Welcome to our YouTube channel & podcast!

βœ… In this comprehensive video, we reveal the key to planning effective and engaging social events for your youth group. From icebreakers and team-building activities to creative theme ideas and logistical tips, we've got you covered.

πŸ‘ Discover how to foster a sense of community, encourage meaningful connections, and create a safe and inclusive environment for all participants.

YouthGroup #Checklist #EssentialSteps #SuccessfulGathering #YouthMinistry #Youth #Christianity #Church #Community #Leadership #Inspirational #Motivation #Encouragement #Teamwork #FunActivities #Icebreakers #Bonding #Faithbuilding #Engagement #Unity

========================================

πŸ†“ FREEBIES πŸ†“
πŸ“… "1 Month Done for You Social Media Posting Tool"
https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/free-hybrid-ministry-e-book

πŸŽ… "The Ultimate (and FREE!) Christmas Party Gude"
GUIDE: https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/christmas-party-run-sheet
PRACTICAL YM TIPS: https://www.youtube.com/@practicalyouthministrytips

🍩 "FREE World's Greatest Donut Event Guide"
GUIDE: https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/worlds-greatest-donut

😨 "Have I already Ruined my TikTok Account?"
https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/ebook

πŸ“Ή "Adobe Premiere Pro Presets for Animating Layers"
https://share.hsforms.com/1VL1oWwWwQ82PLwsPFkPITgnumis

========================================
πŸ› οΈTOOLS
Some of the below links are affilate links in which we do recieve a small commission based on your purchase or use of products
//YOUTUBE STARTER KIT FOR UNDER $100
https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/youtubestarterkit

AUTO POD
https://autopod.lemonsqueezy.com?aff=MX7Vv

TRY REV.COM FOR TRANSCRIBING
https://rev.pxf.io/R5nDOa

OPUS.PRO FOR AI SHORTS & REELS

https://www.opus.pro/?via=a5d361

πŸ‘‰ STAY CONNECTED WITH NICK
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@clasonnick
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hybridministry/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@clasonnick
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HybridMinistry

Website: https://www.hybridministry.xyz

πŸ““SHOWNOTES
//SHOWNOTES & TRANSCRIPTS
http://www.hybridministry.xyz/076

//YOUTUBE VIDEO
https://youtu.be/4s-vOknIaQI

#1 PLANNING
//BASECAMP
https://basecamp.com/

//PLANNING CENTER SERVICES
https://services.planningcenteronline.com/

//GOOGLE DRIVE/DOCS
https://drive.google.com
https://https://docs.google.com/

#2 COMMUNICATE
//SOCIAL MEDIA MAGIC IN YOUR HANDS
https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/free-hybrid-ministry-e-book

#3 GAMES
//DIVE INTO THRILLING GAMES:
https://youtu.be/OiBjI9dMxu8?si=YIVFdYh-6KM8nySP

//SEAMLESS BLENDING: THE ULTIMATE HYBIRD EVENT
EPISODE: https://youtu.be/5ryhkIRyDb4?si=qV6v3-ORrgcmLLtZ
GUIDE: https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/worlds-greatest-donut

//9 BEST DYM RESOURCES
https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/dym

#4 SNACKS

#5 PREACHING & TEACHING
//TEACHING TO A TIKTOK GENERATION
https://youtu.be/iIgEtxPLGBg?si=7tQYGGyW7kCKq9KS

#6 SMALL GROUPS
//SAMPLE SMALL GROUP GUIDE
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/okmirbzzu6avn0o5knrj3/08_13_2023_RuinSchool_GroupGuide_Week1.pdf?rlkey=ozs2lmz1ewxmehwn89fnqj1u7&dl=0

#7 FOLLOW UP
//ENGAGE WITH STUDENTS DURING THE WEEK
https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/free-hybrid-ministry-e-book

//OPUS.PRO
https://youtu.be/TiW4ooQpAvo?si=Ayp7-8W4_QWawi3G

https://www.opus.pro/?via=a5d361

πŸ•°οΈTIMECODES
00:00-00:44 7 Part Youth Group Checklist
00:44-02:50 1) Always Be Planning
02:50-04:36 2) Communication
04:36-05:47 3) Games
05:47-07:37 4) Snacks
07:37-08:55 5) Preaching & Teaching
08:55-10:09 6) Small Groups
10:09-11:35 7) Follow-Up

✍️TRANSCRIPT
Try Transcribing for Yourself at Rev.Com
http://www.rev.pxf.io/R5nDOa

Nick Clason (00:00):
Are you a youth pastor, a youth ministry leader, looking to make your gatherings of people your physical gatherings more intricate and maybe even make 'em a little bit more exciting? How do you plan a surefire amazing event? And furthermore, what do you do to hybridize it? Right? My entire strategy in this podcast is to help you take not just your in-person gatherings, but also your digital presence, social media website, and meld those two together so that you can truly have a hybrid ministry. If that's what you're looking for, you're in luck because that is what we're going to be talking about in this episode today. This is the Hybrid Ministry Show, and we have a seven step framework for the Ultimate Youth Group gathering. Let's get going. Number one is you need to be planning. Listen, I am a 13 year youth ministry veteran, and I have learned that the hard way over my time in ministry, there have been so many times where I've been caught at an event without any plan whatsoever, and I am forced to pivot in the moment.

Nick Clason (01:00):
So it's not only helped me get a little bit more nimble on my feet, but also it's forced me to realize the importance of planning. So there are a couple of really good tools. One that works really well for us in our space is a project management tool called Base Camp. It's quite expensive, but if your church has the budget for it, I recommend at least looking into it, and I'm sure they have a free trial version that you can check out if that's something you're interested in. Also, planning Center online, it's what most people use, especially musicians and such for services and for musicians and disseminating music and stuff like that. But that's a great place to communicate with your tech person, with anyone else that's going to be on stage about what the plan is, what the game is. And so I use that every single week to just let everybody know what is to be expected and what's going to be happening in the actual program of the event.

Nick Clason (01:48):
Event. And then also just free Google Docs. It's a shared space. If you're in a meeting, everyone can have the same Google Doc up. You don't have to have a whiteboard, you don't have to be in some conference room. You can do it via Zoom. But Google Docs and Google Drive are both great docs for word processing, but Google Drive for file sharing and file storage, and you can link things via Google Docs, but you can use Base Camp. You can use Planning center services. You can use Google, Google Drive. You can use those to your advantage to get ahead to think ahead about what is going to happen in your youth ministry space. And hey, if you're watching this video and you've found value so far, please consider liking subscribing, maybe even sharing with the friend, because it's really important that it helps us out a lot, not for us and the accolades, but for the message of hybrid ministry to get out to the world because we believe that teenagers need the gospel and speaking this digital language, this hybrid ministry is their language that they're used to in this world. So please help us out by liking, subscribing, and sharing. Tip number two is communication. Get the word out. You've done the planning. Now people need to know, and I have this

Nick Clason (02:58):
Completely free ebook about how to utilize and use social media in your space. Link down below in the description, go check it out. But I believe that social media can be a form of communication as long as you're not just posting boring, rote, standard static graphics, right? If you use it to the way that social media is meant to be used, one of entertainment, one of fun, short form, vertical based video, I will help you with all of those things in this video. But as you're communicating, you need to be thinking on three different tracks. As a youth pastor, student, parent leader, there really are three audiences that you're communicating with. How are you getting the message out to your students? How are you getting the message out to your parents? And then how are you getting the message out to your leaders? And then a fourth kind of pro tip, bonus tip is also over here, the staff that you work with.

Nick Clason (03:51):
And some of those might cross. Some parents might be leaders, some staff might be parents and all that type of stuff, but those are your three main audiences. I believe that's one of the reasons that youth pastors struggle so much with communication is because you may feel as though you have adequately communicated it, and thus you have to your students. But do all the parents know or is the staff aware of how you're going to be using a different space in the building and then they find you over there and in the kids area because you told the students you're going to be there, but you didn't let the other people on staff know. And so you may have some more conflict with that. So as you're communicating any sort of event that, especially if it's out of cycle, be asking yourself, how do the students know?

Nick Clason (04:33):
How do the leaders know? How do the parents know? Another thing is games. We did a deep dive on games in this playlist over here called Exploring New Digital Frontiers, and we talked about where did games come from and why is it a part of youth ministry? I also gave some ideas. Another one of my favorite episodes that we did was me debriefing an event we did called The World's Greatest Donut. We had tons of games for it, but it was also an amazing hybrid event. And finally, I have a link in the show notes to some of my DYM favorite games. I've created several resources that are on Download Youth ministry, and they are dirt cheap, 5, 6, 7 bucks. If you don't have a membership, even cheaper if you do. So go check some of those out. I love the game. Emoji Phraseology. I love the game. GIF Flashback, and I love the Game Visual, Variance, Voyage. Those are just a few, but I have several on there. But games are an amazing way to up the level of engagement in your space. Fun is the language of teenagers, and so speak it, get them laughing, get them competing, get them having fun together in your gathering. Another really key element to think about is snacks. I had a meeting with a group of leaders last year, and I invited my wife

Nick Clason (05:56):
To come be one of the other leaders meeting with these student leaders, I should say, and I asked her, I said, Hey, what's one thing I could do to level this meeting up? What she said, have snacks. When do you go to somebody's house and they don't offer you something to eat or something to drink? Almost never, right? And the same is true in student ministry. Snacks help kind of bring that energy level down a little bit, not energy level, but bring that insecurity level down a little bit. People, their walls are down a little bit. They're willing to engage, come across the table a little bit more when their snacks. I know it sounds crazy. I know it sounds simple. It might even be a budget buster, but maybe consider opening a cafe where people can purchase snacks, maybe put cheap things out. And one thing I've done before is if you do have a cafe, we gave popcorn away for free, but that drove people back to the cafe to buy the drinks.

Nick Clason (06:51):
There's a reason that bars put peanuts and pretzels out at the table for free because it forces people to buy their drinks. Hey, if you didn't know this, this episode or this channel has a website hybridministry.xyz in every single episode, this is episode. So if you went to hybridministry.xyz slash 0 7 6, we have for you a thing that we do for every single episode. We've done it since episode one, completely free transcripts. That's one of the things that we pay for out of our pocket to serve you and the listener. So if you are listening on a run and you want to go back and hear this, or if you're watching this and you want to take notes, you can go to the website and download a completely free transcript so that you can see everything that we are talking about. Now, element number five of a successful youth gathering is preaching and teaching.

Nick Clason (07:45):
Like I said, we just did an exploring new digital frontiers, and we did a whole episode on how to teach to a TikTok generation. Previously. This generation on websites and social media have an attention span of 8.25 seconds, which is less than the human pet goldfish, right? So how do you teach to a generation like that? How do you keep things interesting while still presenting the meaningful, purposeful, and important truth of the Bible and the truth from God's word? We dove into that. We also gave some ideas about hybrid message enhancements. Things like you version events, things like websites, things like QR codes, things that can just help take the message beyond just the physical meeting space, but you can offer it and extend it and put it in front of your students on social media, on their devices that they're using throughout the rest of the week, but communicate to them then accurately and effectively in the moment using some of these tips and tricks that we talked about in that episode.

Nick Clason (08:48):
But teaching and preaching is a vitally important part to youth ministry gatherings. Number six, small groups. You may not have small groups in your space, so if you don't, then find a way to let students digest the message a little bit. If you don't have small groups in your space or you have it another night of the week, consider maybe having your students sit around tables. And then you could do a more like master teacher style thing where you teach for a little bit and then you toss out a couple of questions to the tables to let the students interact. Gen Z does not want to be a consumer. They want to be a contributor. So find a way to let your students voices be heard. Find a way to let them talk about it. Maybe you do have small groups for the last 30 minutes in your student ministry gatherings.

Nick Clason (09:37):
Have a guide. I'll right here on the screen, you can see the way that we have our guides set up. We have before, during, and after and after, is aimed at our leaders being pastoral to our students. The before is sort of their prep work with the versus and the big ideas. And then during are the questions that we want them to be asking to lead our students from a silly sort of like drop the water level moment, like, hey, some icebreaker type stuff down all the way to some serious things and ending with the group's ending in prayer.

Nick Clason (10:10):
And finally, when your event's over, number seven, what are you going to do about follow-up? What is your ongoing strategy to stay in front of students throughout the week? Because if you have an hour meeting, but you don't ever get to a spot where you are engaging with them in their real life, what about Thursday morning when they wake up after youth group? What about Monday morning when they're on their way to school and they're on the school bus? Why should they think about the things of God that you were talking about last night or yesterday? Why should they care about those things? Which is one of the reasons I think hybrid ministry is so important, and I have this completely free ebook to help you reach and engage the students in their space to engage with the other hours in the week beyond just your program time.

Nick Clason (10:54):
It's not just physical, it's not just digital, it is hybrid. And so in that ebook, we also point people to a completely free resource called opus.pro. It will help you clip your messages up into small, short form bite-size videos. But what I want to know is that I want to help you guys understand the importance of gatherings and how you can take the physical gathering, how you can take your digital moments, how you can meld those two. Hope you found this video helpful. On the screen is the next video. Be sure to click that. Be sure to subscribe because we at hybrid ministry are making digital discipleship easy, possible and accessible. So as always, and don't forget, stay hybrid.

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