How I Recruit Awesome Youth Volunteers that Stick

About this Episode

In this episode, Nick sits down with one of his best friends, and also, boss, and they discuss volunteer, not only recruiting, but also how to create such a strong volunteer team that volunteers would never choose to leave your team. Be sure to stick around for the surprising strategy that actually keeps volunteers on the team longer!

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🕰️TIMECODES
00:00 Meet My Boss & Friend, Darren Sutton
01:02 35 Years in 35 Seconds
04:10 Shocking Bar Raising Leader Strategy
05:33 What if Leaders Don’t Respond?
07:56 Start Recruiting Leaders from Scratch
19:33 How do you keep good leaders?
21:57 Conducting Leader Debriefs
25:45 A Complete List of Roles
31:20 Final Encouragement

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TRANSCRIPT
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (00:01.036)
We've recorded so many podcasts together. I don't even know how I feel like we're supposed to Well, everyone here we are. I am with my boss, Darren Sutton, who has his youth ministry till I die shirt on, which I was wearing yesterday. So I'm glad that we coordinated this. But I wanted to get on here and I've been working for Darren now for five years, two different places.

Darren Sutton (00:04.982)
Welcome back.

Darren Sutton (00:20.691)
Thank you.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (00:29.72)
And aside from having written a book, I would also say practically speaking, Darren has a lot to say about volunteers. But Darren, first, tell us a brief overview. Distill your 35-year youth ministry journey down to 35 seconds. But why in that did volunteers become such a thing for you?

Darren Sutton (00:53.484)
Yeah, I don't know if I can say that in 35 seconds, but I will say this. I was pretty much the Lone Ranger youth pastor who would just grab chaperones when I was absolutely desperate for adults to be in the room or whatever. I would have adults lead Bible study classes and go to summer camp with me and the stuff where you know you can't do everything, so you have them there. But I didn't realize the...

extent of needing people to carry the mission forward and to lean into their own calling until I was about maybe 10 years in and we were having our yeah we were having our third baby and my lead volunteer was like I can't do this and you need you need more people you're not doing this right so my wife basically was like listen you're you are

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (01:32.354)
Did something happen?

Darren Sutton (01:48.29)
fantastic and you have lots of adult leaders, but you're not equipping them for ministry. You're just having them hold down the pieces that you can't hold down and they have more to offer than that. And you're not, you're not giving them, you know, the runway to do that. And that changed everything. It totally transformed my whole philosophy about why we use volunteers and how we keep them and why that matters.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (01:57.676)
Mmm. Mmm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (02:03.98)
Yeah. Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (02:16.982)
Okay, so yeah, so like I would imagine that, you know, average youth pastor listening is like, you know, they have that mentality, right? The volunteers are a necessary like evil, I don't wanna say, you know, but like they just, know they have to have them. There you go. They're a necessary component, but maybe like, maybe they don't even know what to do with them.

Darren Sutton (02:36.088)
Component. Let's go with component. They're necessary component.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (02:46.028)
You know what mean? like that, would imagine maybe some of that was your story too. Like maybe control a little bit, but also like, what do I even do with these guys? So yeah, so how did you, before we dive into kind of the recruiting conversation, how did you mentally release yourself and be able to trust that you could actually hand off like meaningful things to said volunteer?

Darren Sutton (02:53.294)
You worked for me, you know part of it was control.

Darren Sutton (03:13.89)
Yeah, great question. This, I mean, you know, this is gonna sound like a no brainer, but 25 years ago it wasn't. I started writing job descriptions and I just sat down and said, okay, if I was handing off deeper parts of this, or if the people who were already serving were gonna own it the way I wanted them to.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (03:23.96)
Mm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (03:35.0)
Yeah.

Darren Sutton (03:37.58)
What did I want that to look like? Like, what did I want them to do? Part of the struggle is that I wasn't recruiting them to anything other than filling the spot and hanging out with kids. And so if I wanted them to be at football games and, you know, choir performances, and if I wanted them to be writing cards to kids who weren't there, and if I wanted them to be reaching out to parents on the regular and all that, I needed to spell that out, and I hadn't done that. And so I was doing all that part, and they were just showing up.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (03:46.978)
Mm-hmm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (04:01.261)
Mm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (04:05.622)
Yeah.

Darren Sutton (04:05.866)
And as soon as I kind of raised the bar and said, here's what I really need you to be doing in this role. If you love Jesus and love students and you want to make an eternal impact, it looks like this. It changed everything. So job descriptions were my number one thing. And again, that sounds a little bit like a no brainer now, I think for a lot of people, but we weren't doing that back then.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (04:25.962)
Yeah. So and then they did they did race to the challenge, right? Were you nervous that they wouldn't or couldn't or didn't have the time to or was there any of that?

Darren Sutton (04:31.902)
yeah. Yeah.

Darren Sutton (04:37.71)
You know, I don't remember being nervous about it as much as I was just, was at a point in my ministry and in my family life where I was like, they have to do this. You know, so it never dawned on me, I think, and also young and arrogant. Like it never dawned on me that anybody would say, I don't want to do that. And to their credit, nobody did. Like everybody rose to the challenge. And I really think that

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (04:56.802)
Sure.

Darren Sutton (05:07.32)
we sell the body of Christ, not volunteers, they're the body. We sell the body short when we assume that they won't invest more. Give them a chance to show you that, right? And if they do, then you know, like they might be better suited for a different role in your ministry, but this role with the job description as it's written, they're just not good for that. And it also gives you a great entry point for a conversation when you do need a leader to level up.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (05:18.348)
Hmm. Yeah, that's good.

Darren Sutton (05:37.078)
to say like, listen, here's what we signed on for. Help me understand what's a struggle for you in this. Because it seems like these components aren't happening. And I'm just wondering, is that because you're unsure of what to do? Is that because you don't want to do that? You've had bad success with it? Like, help, teach me. Teach me what this, you know, where the holes are here.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (05:41.944)
Hmm

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (05:56.672)
Mm, yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (06:00.844)
But then you have, like you said, have teeth, right, a little bit to go back if volunteer's not performing and there's nothing more awkward than trying to fire someone who's not getting paid. So.

Darren Sutton (06:04.152)
Yeah.

Darren Sutton (06:10.798)
I'm sure. Helping them find their fit in the body of Christ.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (06:17.46)
Yep. So, okay, so aside from, you know, someone just buying your book, which is linked down below in the description, obviously.

Darren Sutton (06:25.514)
hey, thanks. I don't even know if I have a link to my book. Yeah, probably. Maybe the three people who bought it are done with it.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (06:27.956)
Yeah, well, we'll scrounge it up. It's on eBay or something. What? So if you're if someone's just, know, regular old youth pastor and they're like, just like, OK, I hear you. Yeah, I'm doing too much. I'm spinning my wheels. Job description, maybe step one. Step two. Let's talk recruiting like because you.

you may not even have any leaders to write a job description for. So help someone start. Just rattle off the best recruiting strategies, methods, ideas, and I'll take notes for our own ministry as we're trying to also recruit some people.

Darren Sutton (07:00.908)
Yeah.

Darren Sutton (07:08.172)
Yeah.

because there are always holes. Well, where I started was I'm not a big fan of cattle calls from the pulpit or anything like that. Yeah, that's a struggle. Yeah, or you don't get anybody because nobody listens during announcements.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (07:21.686)
Yeah, the youth need volunteers. You're gonna get weirdos.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (07:29.047)
Yeah.

Well, it's a plural you, right? So it's like, you all interested? And so the individual you assumes one of the other ones is gonna take it and they're off the hook.

Darren Sutton (07:36.118)
Yes, exactly. So let me tell you guys, so here's what I did, Nick. Like I, you're right. The individual ask is everything. And I don't mean a fly by, you know, I don't mean a fly by conversation in the hallway on your way to the bathroom. I mean a sit down, real talk. but it takes a minute to get to that, right? Especially if you don't know everybody in our current context, the student ministry is literally a

across a creek from the rest of the building and so.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (08:07.372)
Yeah. It's one of the most distant locations I've ever served and I would imagine the same for you. So us being a part of the rest of the life of the church, we have to be incredibly intentional to overcome that for sure.

Darren Sutton (08:16.588)
Yeah, for sure.

Darren Sutton (08:22.27)
Exactly. And that's true everywhere, especially if your facility or the space that you occupy is siloed from the rest of the church.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (08:31.372)
Yeah, because it's great to have the youth space, but that their inherent challenge of that is you're in the youth space and not, yeah.

Darren Sutton (08:37.132)
Yeah, it's a youth space. Yeah, it's a youth space. So if you're not a youth, you're not in it. So, yeah, the first thing I did was I went to my senior pastor and said, our students need more visibility. And, you know, in in that church, like where this whole philosophy of how I handle volunteers was born, my space was was attached, but it was up and to the back on a second floor in the far corner of the property. Right.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (08:50.253)
Mm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (09:06.06)
Yeah, so was separated.

Darren Sutton (09:07.362)
Yeah, exactly. Like you would see kids coming down from the upstairs and be like, my gosh, I'm glad I'm not serving up there. And that was it. So we started using students to take the offering, serve communion, do greeting. And I just, you know, kind of poached a dozen of my highest capacity students and said, let's help the church understand why youth ministry matters.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (09:13.334)
Right? Yeah, yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (09:31.405)
Mm.

Darren Sutton (09:31.854)
And that didn't require them to be on the platform. We did have some on the platform. We had some students doing worship. We would occasionally do a youth night or youth day at church where students would speak and, or I would speak and all of that. starting there was actually the most critical, I think, the most critical component because people started seeing teenagers.

And it's a little bit like, you know, trying to acclimate people to wild animals. Like you got to get them a little bit close while they're in a cage and then you stick a little, you stick your hand in the cage and then you're in the cage, you know? And so that was the start of it. Also helping my senior pastor catch the vision that student ministry is not babysitting.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (10:07.682)
Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (10:18.04)
Yeah, how do, can you talk about that for just a quick second? how do, I would imagine, you someone might be listening and they're like, oh yeah, I love that, but I'm either A, getting or I'm anticipating that I would get pushback. How do you lead up in that?

Darren Sutton (10:32.994)
Well, if you're anticipating, stop doing that. Like give them a chance to say, you're a babysitter. But also I think storytelling is the most critical component. We had this kid come in, let me tell you this story about this student who shared their faith at school and not necessarily about what student ministry is doing in the building, but what student ministry is doing outside of the building.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (10:35.992)
That's good, yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (10:41.105)
Heh.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (10:51.405)
Hmm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (10:59.608)
That's good.

Darren Sutton (11:00.908)
you know, was super helpful. It also helped that I had a very open senior pastor. You know what? I didn't turn my phone off.

Sorry, Nick. You probably couldn't hear that, but I could. Okay, sorry. Are you editing this? I'm assuming you edit. All right, I'm gonna go back then. It didn't hurt that I had just a really open senior pastor. I think he hired me with the babysitting mindset, but it didn't take him long to see that student mystery could be way more than that. So I was fortunate in that way.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (11:11.224)
That's good.

No, I heard it. It was great. It was a great sound.

I mean, I will, yeah. Yeah, okay.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (11:34.548)
Mm. Yeah, that's good.

Darren Sutton (11:36.3)
So once we had students kind of operating around the building, it made it way easier for me to go up to randos and say, hey, so and so told me you'd be great. Or I'm gonna out myself with some really shallow things. I'm just gonna say. So if we were in worship and I saw folks who I felt like were truly connecting with worship.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (11:52.856)
lol

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (12:04.663)
Yeah.

Darren Sutton (12:05.132)
That mattered to me, not because we had a worship ministry, but because I felt like those people were intentionally trying to connect with the heart of God when we were doing, you know, church. And so I just started introducing myself and doing a slow kind of a slow ask. Some might call it chess, where I would, I know you would, you know, where I would just go introduce myself. I'm a student pastor. Hey, just, you know,

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (12:07.703)
Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (12:12.354)
Hmm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (12:24.472)
I would call it chest.

Darren Sutton (12:32.429)
appreciated your investment in church today or whatever. And then a of weeks later, I asked them how they were doing. Like I would start trying to build a relationship knowing that my end game, which didn't always work out, but my end game was to get them involved in students. The Lord might've had a different end game and sometimes he did, but I did that. I made sure that this was easier.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (12:57.282)
So this is everyone's permission to keep your eyes open during worship.

Darren Sutton (13:01.228)
Yeah, 100 % 100%. And you know, not to say that hands raised means anything because it doesn't, but I looked at people and went, look, their hands up. They're volunteering. Another thing that was again, a little easier in the context I was in, I got involved in a in a connect group and a life group Sunday school class, whatever your know, whatever your church calls it. And while

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (13:07.884)
Yeah, yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (13:11.584)
you

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (13:22.614)
Yeah, A D group.

I wanted to keep rattling them off but my brain went completely dead.

Darren Sutton (13:31.534)
While that didn't, I wasn't necessarily pulling people from that group. That group of all kind of young parents, it was early in our ministry, like they were the movers and shakers in our church. And so they were talking up the student ministry. I was able to talk it up in my small group. And then the last thing I did was done a little bit because I...

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (13:47.949)
Yeah.

Darren Sutton (13:59.936)
you know, because I just felt stubborn about it. We had a set of senior adults in our church who were fantastic. I mean, you know, they did everything. They did all the serving. We had a Wednesday night meal. This is a long time ago. We a Wednesday night meal and they cooked the meal and they ran the kitchen and they just did everything. And I intentionally started developing relationships with those ladies.

and started trying to get them involved in doing some things. And I have always kind of felt like senior adults make some really great student ministers. And so I was intentionally going after them and there was a lady, her name was Belle. Belle was a little bit of your typical cranky church lady. And I said something about, you know, being involved in student ministry or whatever. And she was like, I'll never work with students. And I just went.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (14:35.028)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah.

Darren Sutton (14:55.148)
before I die, you will, whatever it takes. And so a little bit, I would target people, I think that way. don't, target's probably not the right word, but I would just, I would set my sight on somebody that I really wanted and I just kind of wouldn't let it go. Didn't harass. Sometimes that took a long time. It took me maybe like three-ish or four years before I finally got Bell to start something in students. And by the time we were,

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (15:04.152)
lol

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (15:09.089)
Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (15:22.861)
Yeah.

Darren Sutton (15:24.84)
She was all in like she was hosting D nows at her house and you know all kinds of stuff. So I just think that it is not being afraid to ask, making sure that your students are visible so that people know that teenagers don't bite. They're not scary and then not counting anybody out. I mean from from 21 we are our age range started at 21. We wanted to give kids some separation from student ministry, but from 21 to death.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (15:28.258)
Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (15:36.482)
Mm-hmm.

Darren Sutton (15:54.208)
It didn't matter who you were, parent, not a parent, old lady, college student. Like we would go after everybody and did. just never, I never met a person that I didn't think was called. And you know, my dad, yeah, I think there was a book title and a full philosophy. And I just wouldn't, I mean, I took no for an answer. I didn't try to get people to serve who didn't really didn't want to.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (15:54.242)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (16:02.476)
Yeah, that's good.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (16:08.29)
Some might say there's a book title in that.

Darren Sutton (16:23.148)
but I wouldn't take no as the first answer. So Belle said no and I was like, well, will you make sandwiches for Wednesday night? We didn't need sandwiches for Wednesday night. We already have Wednesday night supper, but she did it. You know what I'm saying? She started there. And then I would get some of those key students and say, hey, you guys make sure and thank Ms. Belle for these sandwiches. so, you know.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (16:33.431)
Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (16:43.032)
Well, and I think there's a, probably a principle in there of like, if you only ever like recruit to the need, then when the need is great, then your anxiety is high because you have like a lot of, a lot of need and a lot of holes to fill. But if you're always have your eye on this sort of like recruiting or onboarding mindset, even if you are onboarding them and there's nowhere to put them, like it's better.

Darren Sutton (17:10.733)
Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (17:12.044)
to have an overabundance, a wealth of riches, than to just be like, well, I'm fully staffed, quote unquote, right now. But in a few months you might not be, and then again, you're like, man, I'm failing again. So I think the good principle is for anyone in youth ministry who feels like they're struggling with volunteers, just start asking people and keep asking them.

Darren Sutton (17:14.091)
percent.

Darren Sutton (17:35.852)
never, it didn't matter how full I was, I never told somebody no. And in that church specifically, and in several of my churches, like I would have every spot full and I would be creating roles because I just wanted to make sure that people who wanted to be involved in the next generation could be.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (17:40.087)
Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (17:47.928)
Mm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (17:54.7)
Yeah.

Darren Sutton (17:54.894)
And I tried really hard to not enlist them to a position, but to enlist them to a vision, to a purpose and what their life could mean, even if all they were doing is making sandwiches. And sometimes that's what it was, right? I don't have a spot for this person, but hey, could you go shopping for me on Tuesday? I would find things for them to do so I didn't have to tell them no. Because you might be fully staffed today and tomorrow, you know,

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (18:02.102)
Mm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (18:10.828)
Yeah. Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (18:20.342)
Yeah.

Darren Sutton (18:24.848)
your leader has a parent who has to move in with them and their whole life changes and they need to step out. So I never counted on being fully staffed. And when I was fully staffed, I felt like I was always kind of back filling with the people who were the next to step in.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (18:41.58)
Yeah. So that's a flex, being fully staffed or being so staffed that you have volunteers that you're just like making stuff up. So that leads to like, in my opinion, the next sort of like big bucket of this conversation is like, how do you, how do you keep good leaders so that they don't dip out on you?

Darren Sutton (18:51.255)
Yeah.

Darren Sutton (19:03.405)
Yeah. Yeah, 100%. You know, I think this just happened because a little bit it's my personality bit. I wasn't being intentional about this. I just felt like, you know, as I knew that volunteers were important and that part of my job was shepherding them and it wasn't just about hanging out with the kids and you know, all of that. So I was very...

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (19:15.512)
You

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (19:26.306)
Right.

Darren Sutton (19:32.066)
what's the right word? Pastoral is the only word I can think of. I knew my job was to shepherd them. It wasn't just to enlist them and get them sitting in front of teenagers, it was to help them along. So, you know, I...

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (19:39.159)
Yeah.

Darren Sutton (19:48.148)
I'm pretty good at sending notes of appreciation and not generic notes. Hey, I saw you talking to this kid. Hey, I heard a parent say this about you. Hey, you know, so that they would know that what they were doing was being seen. And I think that's a piece of it. know, gift cards go a long way, even if it's five bucks to Starbucks, because we all know five bucks isn't going to buy anything at Starbucks. But it's not that it's not that it is.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (20:01.826)
yeah

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (20:15.625)
Mm-hmm.

Darren Sutton (20:15.936)
it is noticing them that matters, right? I was a little bit of a bulldog, absolutely insistent on leader training. Not necessarily to make them better, but to make them better, but more to build community among our leaders so that they didn't want to leave.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (20:24.971)
Hmm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (20:33.048)
Mm.

Darren Sutton (20:36.91)
Often volunteers who serve in students sacrifice a community group of some sort in order to serve so they don't have that. And a lot of times when they don't have that or they don't sense the feel of community, they'll dip so they can go be in their own Sunday school class or, you know, life group or whatever it is. And so I even though we weren't that we weren't doing Bible studies together every week, I wanted them to feel like, man, if something happens, my student

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (20:43.052)
Mm-hmm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (20:55.607)
Yeah.

Darren Sutton (21:07.044)
team has my back and so and you know this because you work with me I'm pretty intentional still to this day about making sure that those leader training times are as much about building community and connection as they are about becoming a better you know volunteer.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (21:08.152)
Mm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (21:19.544)
Mm-hmm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (21:23.041)
Yeah, for sure.

Darren Sutton (21:24.416)
And then I'm a big fan of not recruiting people until death. So we actually recruit to a cycle. So we're gonna ask you to step in here and we're gonna ask you to go until this point. And then if you wanna step out, we'll embrace you and be sad when you go, most of you. You you occasionally have that one leader where that ending date really helps you.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (21:37.536)
Mm-hmm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (21:43.606)
Yeah.

Darren Sutton (21:49.966)
what you said earlier, like kind of helps you fire somebody. Like, hey, it's coming to the end of your term, thanks so much. Like, here's a Sunday school class for you to go to, you know, whatever. But largely, it was an opportunity for me to be more mindful and intentional about recruiting division. So if they didn't hear it any other time, once a year in the kind of re-recruiting phase,

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (21:53.431)
Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (21:56.856)
Yeah

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (22:07.233)
Mm-hmm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (22:16.823)
Yeah.

Darren Sutton (22:17.33)
They were going to be reminded of what they were doing. It was an opportunity for me to say, tell me, tell me what to struggle. What? How can I help you? Do you still love this role? Is there another role that you've seen other people performing in that you would like to try out? Would you so they don't feel like, hey man, if I say yes to leading this, you know, home group, I'm going to be leading it until I die. Yeah, exactly. You know.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (22:26.295)
Mm-hmm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (22:31.894)
Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (22:38.018)
I'm stuck for life, yeah.

But I think that might give some youth pastors listening hives, because they're already feeling strapped with leaders, and then they get good ones and they're like, wait, you give them an end date? And the irony in that is that doing that, again, I won't put words in your mouth, but doing that helps them feel like seen and appreciated and that you value them. so rather than them leaving at the end of the term,

Darren Sutton (22:55.148)
Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (23:11.562)
they like immediately re-up and come back.

Darren Sutton (23:13.612)
Yeah, yeah. And the truth is when you're when you have equipped them well, they know what their mission is. They feel supported by their community. They don't want to leave. We we in all kinds of different ways for the last 25 years, I've tried to give my volunteers breaks, whether that was a bucket of time like, hey, everybody's off in the summer and we'll take care of it. Or, know, what we currently do is

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (23:32.311)
Mm.

Darren Sutton (23:40.672)
a day off about every six-ish weeks where we just say to our volunteers, don't come, the student ministry's got it, students got it, you know, whatever. Giving them those moments basically to come up for air helps them stay in the water a lot longer. So yeah, we do give an end date, but I have only had a few people take advantage of that. And when they have, it's never been because they didn't want to do student ministry anymore.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (23:44.343)
Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (23:54.413)
Yeah.

Hmm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (24:09.89)
Right.

Darren Sutton (24:10.228)
It's always been because my life circumstances have changed and I need a break. And, you know, the other piece of that that is helpful is when life circumstances do change, most of them won't dip until they get to that end date. And so even though their trauma, you know, whatever it was, their job change, their, you know, sickness, their parents or kids or whatever happened in November.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (24:15.074)
Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (24:34.367)
Mm. Yeah.

Darren Sutton (24:39.63)
They know they committed until June 1st and they're going to say occasionally, occasionally, you know, to be a good pastor, you're going to say, listen, I know your life is upside down right now. Uh, just go ahead and step out. Like let's take a break. And then you're going to bring in, you know, somebody who's on the bench, who's been begging to be involved, who you've got in a, you know, maybe a less influential position, but who's ready to step up. Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (24:41.666)
and they'll still ride it out. Yeah, that's good.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (24:49.409)
Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (24:52.78)
Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (25:03.35)
Yeah, so real quick before we leave, let's just make a big list of volunteer roles that are a little bit, because I think, again, Average Joe, Normal Youth Pastor, Normal Youth Ministry in America, every volunteer that they have is to lead discussion, small group, school, whatever you want to call it with students.

Darren Sutton (25:29.134)
Yeah, for sure.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (25:31.064)
But there's a million other things and some people don't want to do that. Like we have a guy on our team right now who's awesome. He's like, I don't want to lead a Bible study, but he loves teenagers. He's like fun at heart. You know, like he's, he's the type of guy you'd want on your team, but he, he felt disqualified because he's like, I'm not equipped for that slash don't want to do it. And so like, to your point, there's a million things you can do. can make sandwiches. So what are some over the years, you're 35.

Darren Sutton (25:53.112)
Right.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (26:00.28)
plus years of experience. What are some of the different roles that you've had created, invented? Like give us some of the funniest best ones you got.

Darren Sutton (26:09.102)
Oh, I don't know. I have some that you couldn't do anymore. You know, I mean, I love that the, you're just going to show up at their like, you don't, you don't have to lead a Bible study, but I want you to show up at every single basketball game this kid has, you know, as just kind of a, you know, a big brother figure. You know, we had a lot of over the years had different

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (26:12.024)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Share those two from the the crypt.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (26:29.464)
Mm.

Darren Sutton (26:39.53)
spots had a lot of rec space. and so, you know, listen, I don't want you to do anything except play basketball. That's all you have to do. Play basketball and talk to students. you know, we also had the proverbial like set up chairs and, you know, come in and create, you know, new student, new student guest kits and, know, that kind of stuff. Probably the funniest one that we had was, in one church that I was in.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (26:41.816)
Mm-hmm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (26:48.534)
I love that job.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (27:00.684)
Yeah. Yeah.

Darren Sutton (27:09.224)
our student center was a kind of refabbed pavilion on the back of an acre and a half plot. So the church was at the front right and the student ministry area was at the back left and no lights, barely electricity. We threw up fake walls. We had window units kind of shoved in the corner and you know, as janky as it could be.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (27:16.578)
Okay.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (27:23.755)
Yeah.

Darren Sutton (27:38.478)
and so every week we would have fire ants that were building in the building, right? Like building these nests in the building. So we had our, our guy who would come in and kill the fire ants every week, and sweep it all out. That was his only job. Like he didn't want to hang out with students and all that, but he felt like that was a contribution he can make. had people in that same church, like one of the ways that we

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (27:53.046)
You

Darren Sutton (28:05.814)
kind of lighted the path in the middle of the night to that back area where with tiki torches. And so we had folks who would come in and, you know, light the tiki torches and sweep the pathway off and, you know, that kind of thing. So those were kind of unique. We had for a time, folks who would be, you know, kind of the bus run, except in their vehicles, we, don't do that anymore. Just generally for ministry safe purposes, but

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (28:10.359)
Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (28:28.941)
Right.

Darren Sutton (28:31.822)
Their only job was to pick kids up and drive them back and forth to church. They didn't stay in the youth ministry. didn't, but we gave them like in that job description, here are some questions you can be asking when kids get in your car to get the conversation going and you know, make sure you meet the parents and you know, things like that to help them be a little bit more invested in real life with kids. Had some volunteers whose main job was to reach out to parents.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (28:37.016)
Yeah.

Darren Sutton (28:59.886)
and make sure that, you know, hey, we know parenting teenagers is tough. Is there anything the student ministry can do for you? That was their only job to just keep a list of parents would love this. Parents would need that. And they pass that over to me and I'd figure out what we could do and you know, what was a really stupid idea we had to throw away. So some stuff like that. Once, you know, this one is selfish, but was important.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (29:07.672)
Hmm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (29:18.136)
Yeah, nice. keep going.

Darren Sutton (29:27.694)
uh, more important than I realized, I think at the time, uh, I enlisted somebody to pay attention to my kids. Uh, your job is and not just mine, but in that, in that church, just mine. But if we were in our context, we're having multiple staff members, it would be staff kids. Uh, but I, I was like, you know, my kids sacrifice a lot for me to be in student ministry and they were not teenagers yet. They were, you know, I don't know, 11, nine and seven, they were young. I just said, can you

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (29:35.063)
Uh-huh.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (29:42.646)
Mm-hmm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (29:53.708)
Yeah. Yeah.

Darren Sutton (29:56.792)
Can you just notice my kids? Like they're here a lot. They sacrifice a lot for ministry. Their dad's a pastor and so I'm sure that they're they need adults who are not their pastor. You know as well and your your jobs to just notice my kids and they crushed that like our kids to this day feel like those people are their grandparents even more than their actual grandparents. So that's another one.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (30:02.263)
Mm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (30:10.028)
Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (30:21.4)
It's cool.

Yeah, that's cool.

Darren Sutton (30:25.21)
You can come up with everything. Host homes and sandwich makers and so many ways to get people close enough to see what Jesus is doing without them having to lead a Bible study ever.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (30:27.832)
.

Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (30:37.335)
Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (30:43.512)
Yeah, that's good. So, okay, last thing. Talk to the youth pastor who's struggling, floundering, drowning. Find a word of encouragement about the importance of leaders and maybe just a basic for them next step. Hey, if you're gonna do anything, first thing to do is just do this. Don't feel overwhelmed by all of this. Maybe you don't have the...

Capacity to get a fire ant guy yet. Okay, that's fine But speak speak to that speak to the guy who's just like man. don't leaders are killing like it's just the hardest, you know part of my job, whatever like Encourage them for a second

Darren Sutton (31:22.712)
Yeah. Well, let me just say first, it's not your job. That's not your job. That's the job of the Holy Spirit. And he's very clear in scripture that we all have a part to play.

and that our job as pastors is to equip the saints for the work of service. Our job is not to make sure we have plenty of volunteers, not to make sure every hole gets filled. Our job is just to equip the people that the Holy Spirit brings. We can be more proactive in bringing them, but the Holy Spirit is the one who quickens their heart to be involved. So that's not your job. Your job isn't to convince them. Your job is to shepherd them and to give them an opportunity to step into what God is calling them to do.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (31:39.352)
Mm-hmm.

Darren Sutton (32:04.718)
Don't take the whole burden on yourself. And I mean that in two ways. It's the Holy Spirit's job and also you have some people, you definitely have some people who care about student ministry who will help recruit for you. You utilize that, whether that's other staff members, folks that are currently on your volunteer team, a parent who just happens to take a particular interest in what's going on in student ministry.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (32:20.792)
Mm.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (32:31.224)
Teenagers.

Darren Sutton (32:32.364)
Yeah, for sure. 100 % ask a kid who they think would make a great youth leader. They'll have a list guaranteed. So.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (32:34.519)
you

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (32:38.742)
Yeah, yeah. I had a teenager one time go and list the head usher on his own. Yeah, I was like, well, I'll talk to him too. But it was great.

Darren Sutton (32:44.891)
Poach them from other ministries? I love it.

That's fantastic. But just don't feel the burden that it's all on you and don't feel the burden that it all has to happen right now. For me, it was a slow, kind of a slow burn into that whole idea that volunteers could be more and I needed to ask them to do more and be more. That took time. And it's not a foolproof, like,

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (33:16.502)
Yeah.

Darren Sutton (33:21.322)
I mean, we serving in church right now and across from this podcast, there's a big sheet on my door that lists every volunteer hole we have right now. And we have a lot. There's probably 20 people on there that we need to fill. So, you know, you're always going to have the need. You can't let the holes be what drives you. You've got to let the people who are in the room, you know, a little bit.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (33:31.384)
Yeah. Yeah.

Darren Sutton (33:47.384)
be what drives you. So, and it's totally doable because Jesus wants those kids even more than you do. And he's gonna raise up the people that are needed to help get them where he needs them to be.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (33:48.984)
That's good.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (34:01.304)
Nice, that's good. All right, anything else? Did we get it all?

Darren Sutton (34:05.312)
Yeah, think we, I mean, I'm sure we didn't get it all, but we got, you got all I got.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (34:08.28)
Well, that's a lot it's helpful so where do people find you Darren?

Darren Sutton (34:18.03)
listen, I'm everywhere. I'm, I'm almost like the Holy Spirit everywhere you are. am, I'm on all, I'm on all social stuff. if you're, yes. Well, actually I can't, you can't say that anymore. I deleted my account after it banned.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (34:22.039)
Woo!

That's scary.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (34:29.738)
including band TikTok. If you'd like to send...

It's back, it's back now.

Darren Sutton (34:38.464)
I know I'm trying to decide like, listen, I had so this whole podcast, I had so much time open up in my life that I'm like, maybe I don't want to, I'm not sure if I want to, if I want to take it back. But yeah, I mean, you know, Insta and Facebook and Twitter and you know, all that, I have a blog. everyone's called the youth ministry.com and, I'm not, you know, I have, I'm just like you. I'm an in the trenches youth pastor. So if you're looking for a regular, like,

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (34:42.712)
You

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (34:56.856)
Nice. We'll link it down below.

Darren Sutton (35:08.184)
podcast and a blog post. I don't do that. But I've been in this thing for a few minutes and I'm not planning on going anywhere. And so I love talking to you pastors. And if you ever need a guy who has made as many mistakes as you feel like you're making, you can reach out. Cause I got a whole list. Lots of stories. Yeah.

Nick Clason | Hybrid Ministry (35:24.856)
You

There you go. That's big right there. All right. Well, hey, for Darren, this is Nick signing off. See you guys.

Darren Sutton (35:33.944)
Bye guys.