Is Digital Discipleship Even Possible?

About this Episode

In this episode Nick and Matt chat about discipleship, Gen Z, who recently revealed that 51% of them prefer online ONLY ministry, and how to wade into that sticky in between of in-person and online, some might even call it "hybrid!"

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Or find full transcripts and show notes at http://www.hybridministry.xyz

TIMECODES
00:00-2:15 Is Digital Discipleship Possible?
2:15-3:47 Aren't people tired of online?
3:47-5:05 Meet Gen Z
5:05-7:55 Are ministry and discipleship the same thing?
7:55-12:08 What does Hybrid Discipleship look like?
12:08-13:45 How can Hybrid not feel like COVID 2.0?
13:45-18:35 How to utilize online content to facilitate spiritual growth?
18:35-25:46 How to repurpose content you already have
25:46-28:20 The danger of ignoring Gen Z and Digital Discipleship
28:20-31:17 How to use your staff to create content
31:18-35:17 What does Gen Z want?
35:17-36:14 Outro

TRANSCRIPT
Nick Clason (00:00):
Well, that's why I think it's a definition thing a little bit, right? Yeah. Cause like I said, I do think there's a life on life component of the social. Yeah. So, um, I think it's that's I think it's hybrid, so all right. Let's uh, let's get started. So we don't say all the good stuff before we start recording. Great. Well, everyone, welcome to another episode of hybrid ministry podcast today. I am your host, Nick Clason alongside my friend, Matt Johnson. Good morning, Matt. How you doing mark morning? I'm doing great. How are you, Nick? Good, good. Hey, I wanted to talk today. Um, I just honestly have a conversation wondering is digital discipleship even possible. Um, and so I think that there's gonna be a lot of definitions that we need to kind of clarify, um, in order to have our conversation, but to sort of lay the foundation of this, Matt, there's a statistic out there that you continue to share with me that continues to blow my mind. So would you tell the people about gen Z and their preference of online discipleship?

Matthew Johnson (01:06):
Yeah. So something that we need to be very cognitive of is 51% of gen Z. Wanna do ministry online only

Nick Clason (01:18):
Crazy.

Matthew Johnson (01:20):
So that is the major that is more than half only wanna do online.

Nick Clason (01:27):
Yeah. Which is insane. What, and is there more, when you say online ministry, are there more clarifiers to that? Like what does that mean? What does that look like? Or is that just like a, Hey, would you prefer ministry online or in person? And they just clicked online?

Matthew Johnson (01:43):
Uh, so from my understanding is they were asked you want, would you rather be engaged with ministry only online, partially online or never online and 51% said only online that's and then I don't know, the, the other stat a hundred percent off my top of the head, but it was the other vast majority was hybrid and the in person only was definitely the lowest out of the three.

Nick Clason (02:15):
Yeah. Yeah. Dang. Okay. So here we are as pastors or ministry leaders or whatever, we are trying to navigate this world, this post COVID world, where we feel as though most people were kind of done and kind of tired with the online, the streaming and all that type of stuff. And so we're attempting to return. Um, and then we hear a stat like that, which it feels like it goes against our gut. Yeah. Right. Because we feel like everyone wants to be back. At least that's sort of the notion or everyone's tired of zoom or everyone's tired of streaming church services. So does that just mean that when we say everyone, we're not talking about generation Z in that place, or we're only speaking anecdotally to those that maybe only do wanna return, but we're not having conversations with people that are fine with a online, only version of ministry. Um, like what do you think's what do you think's going on with that? Cause I feel like there's a chance that people hear that and they, they don't believe it or they don't sense that to be true in their context. Um, and that just, it feels like it's an immediate like, well that that's outta touch. That's not real, but this is a, this, this is a recent study, right. This came out a couple months ago. It's not, it's not old. Yeah.

Matthew Johnson (03:34):
This is the most recent metrics. So, um, when people tell me, I don't believe that that's not real, they're going off of their gut and it's cuz we like we've talked about in previous episodes, the, the church has to evolve. Um, and that is a change is terrifying. So when I tell any church leader, Hey, this is what we're seeing. This is what we're hearing. And I need to remind everyone that's listening to this podcast, gen Z is getting older. Gen Z is soon gonna be the adults in your church before you know it. Well,

Nick Clason (04:08):
The, the, the oldest gen Z is like 20, 21, 22 years old now,

Matthew Johnson (04:14):
Right? Yes. So that's what, like, they're just getting older now. So sooner or later they're gonna be the adult con the young adult congregation and your church is gen Z. And like, we need to start reaching them. like,

Nick Clason (04:28):
Yeah. Well, cuz I remember, gosh, like two, three years ago I felt like in this, the podcast space, people were just starting to talk about reaching millennials. Mm-hmm like millennial, like I'm a millennial and I'm in my mid thirties almost. Yep. So like that, that train of like thinking of millennial is a young adult. Like they're not like millennials are, are a, the largest generation and the primary base of our workforce these days. Yeah. Now, you know like, so if, if you're just starting to think about millennials, it's time to just honestly shift that thinking to generation Z. Yep. Cause generation Z and millennials could not be more vastly D

Matthew Johnson (05:05):
Exactly.

Nick Clason (05:07):
So let's, let's talk about, um, what would you say Matt? Let's, let's just kind of create a working definition for the base of this conversation. Um, so 51% of generations you prefers online, only ministry is ministry and discipleship. Are they the same thing? Do you think?

Matthew Johnson (05:29):
I guess it depends on what your definition of discipleship is. Um yeah. Or your definition of ministry so, uh, I think discipleship of ministry could be the same thing, but I think in most churches there have definitely different definitions and pathways.

Nick Clason (05:47):
Yeah. And the goal of every church in some form or function is to fulfill the great commission of Jesus. I hope so. Which is to go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of son, holy spirit, and then teaching them to obey everything that I've commanded you. Yep. And then Jesus says, I'll be with you always, even to the very end of the age. And so discipleship the, the most basic definition. And I actually like kind of pairing evangelism with it, uh, because I think it takes the edge off of evangelism. So it goes from just hop. Someone says yes, to helping someone take a step closer to Jesus. Yep. Regardless of where they are preconversion post. But I think that helping someone take a step towards Jesus is discipleship, which is what evangelism is, except for. You're trying to have someone do that who maybe wouldn't identify themselves as a follower of Jesus just yet.

Nick Clason (06:43):
So how do you help someone in their discipleship journey to take a step closer to Jesus and can that be done digitally? Yeah. Or what are the ways in which we can Wade into that digitally or more better, right. Yeah. Hybrid. Uh, cuz I do think that if I look back, uh, if I look back on my journey as a follower of Christ, um, almost every pivotal moment, um, that has some sort of, uh, significant growth moment for me. I can tie a face to those time periods. Yeah. Right. Like my high school years, I think about my youth pastor, my college years, I think about my then girlfriend now wife, um, after that different mentors people have I've um, you know, connected with in ministry or other like youth pastors that I've networked with. Yep. And so there's been a very vital and important, um, you know, connection that takes place a human to connection. Uh, and so that feels like it completely opposes the ability for this to be done online. Yeah. So like let's just, let's chat through that. Like how could that be done in a hybrid sort of sense? Yeah. Love it.

Nick Clason (08:05):
So, um, with that in mind, like as I say that, what, what comes to your mind? What are your thoughts? What are your as a marketer? What are your responses to the, to that, you know, maybe opposition that you can't do this discipleship online,

Matthew Johnson (08:18):
Um, I'd say you probably have not strategized or thought about it enough. Um, and the reason I say that is because look at the success of you version, um, just look at the success of life church in General's online platform. so you're telling me that people that ha go to life church online, you know, every week super invested are not being discipled at all. And I'd say that's probably not accurate cuz I know people that have, you know, been saved through life churches, online platform and have done everything fully online with them. Mm-hmm I've also seen people as I worked at, when I worked at dare share and we developed our life in six words that be discipled completely remotely, cuz we had to do it in COVID from, I don't believe in Christ at all to, I believe in Christ to I'm making disciples all on a virtual platform, you just have to be intentional with it. You have to have the right resources, the right content, the right platforms. And uh, I'm not, and I'm not saying get rid of the, you know, the person to person connection at all. I'm just saying you don't necessarily have to do that in person at all.

Nick Clason (09:30):
Yeah. Well, and you can still have a connection with a person without it actually being in person. Exactly. It's gonna, it like to your point, it's gonna take some strategy and it's gonna take some intentionality, but one of the craziest things about me and my story is I started at the church that you and I both work at the first day of C. And so, uh, I, I went into the office for five hours and then I got sent home indefinitely and we live in Chicago. And so COVID is still happening here. Yep. unlike other parts of the country that pretty much blew it off altogether. Right. And so for the first several months I actually joined a small group, um, and met friends that I'm still friends with to this day. Yeah. But I didn't see them in person for almost three or four months.

Nick Clason (10:16):
Yep. And uh, it's actually funny because the leader of that, like I didn't lead it. I just joined a group cuz you know, Amanda, my wife and I like, we're new to this church and we're like, we just need to meet some people. This is the only way to do it right now. And the leader of that group was like, before I met you, I would've said it's impossible to make a relationship with someone virtually. Yeah. But because I only met you in COVID I realized how possible it was like we had, uh, we would do these like zoom groups and they, they were hosted by the church. Um, and so like we were in this, we would all log into the same zoom and then we'd break out into zoom, breakout rooms. Yeah. And then, uh, the, the church sanctioned time would end and our leader would send a second link and we would all jump on our own zoom call after like the church time slot had ended.

Nick Clason (11:08):
Yeah. And I remember one night we were on that zoom until like 11 or 1130 at night. Um, like, and it was supposed to be over at like eight. And so we were, we were all hanging out like just a cuz it's COVID and we were all bored and there's nothing else to do and we all missed humans. Yeah. Right. Um, but that, that's an example. And I think, I think that picture right there is how that could be the case. However, I think because of COVID or the, the triggering effect of even thinking about that again, that's what people are done with. Yep. Like I don't wanna do that again. Yeah. Right. And so even as I propose that, or even give that as an example, I can imagine if you're listening to this on a run or mowing the lawn or whatever, you're like, heck no, dude, I am done with that. That is over like I am out of that world. Yeah. Uh, so how does that exist now in 2022 or beyond? Yeah, because we don't, we don't wanna enter back into that weird world.

Matthew Johnson (12:09):
Yeah. So I think a great, okay. So a great example of how this works and how you can build relationships virtually is video games. So Nick, you know, I'm a pretty avid obvious video game player, the amount of people I know, and that I've met personally that have very deep friendships and they've only met each other on my call of duty so, yeah. Um, and I think it's the intentionality of just keeping those conversations going and you're doing a hobby together that you love and, um, uh, it's also entertaining and it gives you something to look forward to and, you know, it's all the psychological stuff also behind, um, you know, building relationships. So you can definitely make discipleship work virtually or hyperly if you're intentional about it. Um, and it doesn't happen well

Nick Clason (13:02):
In your point. Right. But your point right there was about relationships. So you, you and I just both proved that you can build a relationship. Yep. Digitally. Right. So then the question is, uh, if, if discipleship is super tied to a relationship, if, if that has to be a distinctive of discipleship, then it, it can be done. It just has to be done with intentionality.

Matthew Johnson (13:30):
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Nick Clason (13:33):
Yeah. I cut you off. So I was gonna try and let you finish what you were saying. No, but I was trying to make the point that that was, that was, we both proved the relationship. So that's, if we're right again, like if we're saying discipleship has that relationship, then it's possible.

Matthew Johnson (13:45):
Exactly. And then on top of, okay. So if we define discipleship as, okay, I'm having a relationship with somebody and then I'm walking them through their relationship with Christ and I'm teaching them how to share Christ and live Christlike content is usually a huge key part, part of discipleship as you. And I know, I mean the amount of times I've been given a book by a mentor or, you know, mm-hmm, , uh, Hey, check out this ebook or this resource or this white page or whatever it is, this blog about whatever I'm struggling with or whatever I'm like going through in my walk of life. Um, we already know it was all done virtually , so you can get a Kindle book, you can get an electronic book, an ebook, as I said earlier, white pages are all digital now, um, you know, you can send someone a blog through an email or text message. So there's no reason why in my professional opinion that you cannot do discipleship totally virtually, but also in a hybrid approach.

Nick Clason (14:49):
Well, and to your point, right. Content in the great commission, Jesus said, baptizing them, all these things. And they said teaching them to obey everything and teaching, I, I think in my youth pastor opinion, I think sometimes we've made teaching the only component of discipleship and divorced that from some of the relational stuff. But if there's a relation, an established relationship that's already taking place, then that teaching or that mentorship or that whatever that content is, uh, that all can exist digitally. Yep. And I think that the, the unique advantage that we have as pastors and or church leaders is that we're actually already in the content making business. Yeah. You, you said a stat yesterday to me in the office about content marketing. What,

Matthew Johnson (15:48):
What was that? Yeah, so content marketing costs 62% less than traditional marketing. And it's,

Nick Clason (15:54):
What's an example of traditional marketing,

Matthew Johnson (15:56):
Um, ads, TV commercials, radio commercials, um, billboards. Um, so

Nick Clason (16:05):
62% less cost.

Matthew Johnson (16:07):
Yep. So 62% less cost and it's three times as effective dang. So when you hear that stat, you go, okay. I have a church budget, so I don't have a lot of money. And I also don't wanna run commercials for my church. That's always kinda weird, but, but I could also create, you know, a blog about why discipleship's important and that's gonna be three times as effective anyways, as me putting an advertisement out on Facebook about, Hey, come to our discipleship class. Yeah. Why would you not do that?

Nick Clason (16:43):
Yeah, because at the end of the day, like whether you wanna call it marketing or evangelism or reaching people, like that's ultimately what we're all trying to do. Like this idea of waiting into this hybrid world is because all of us have a desire to help fulfill the great commission of Jesus. And we can walk into that space digitally in free and sometimes cases free borrowed spaces, like, uh, social media platforms or whatever, and create and offer some of this content marketing type stuff and, and reach people with, uh, the teachings of Jesus. Yep. Which, I mean, gosh, man, I have to, I just feel like if the apostle Paul is alive today, like I don't think he would be abandoning the, the means of digital that was available to him. That's available to us now. Yeah. Right. Cause what was he using then he was using paper and pen, which is his way to communicate with churches from a distance.

Matthew Johnson (17:42):
Exactly.

Nick Clason (17:43):
And because he chose to use that medium, we've actually been able to capture those and put those into our Bible and we still use them and learn from them thousands of years later. Yeah. Um, and so had he not used the means available to him then that wouldn't be that wouldn't be even possible for you and I today. And so we can help kind of facilitate that as churches. Like that's part of, we're all, like I said earlier, we are already in the content making business. And when we're in that like laser tunnel vision focus of create a sermon for Sunday morning that's content mm-hmm . So how could we, what are ways that you see that, that could, that kind of stuff could be repurposed, um, or like, Hey, we're church, church budget, limited staff, whatever. How can we repurpose some of this content to offer teaching and discipl ballistic resources for the people that are attending our churches.

Matthew Johnson (18:38):
Yeah, absolutely. So good, easy thing you can do is you take your sermon, you find main topics that you guys like to talk about. So let's, as an example, let's say anxiety, depression, love, and, um, hope like let's say we had those four topics that we're thinking of as a category of shareable content. Cause we know people are searching for those four things. And then, um, take your hour or 30 minute sermon, find a two minute clip that talks about love, cut that out, make that part of your love category, your anxiety, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Now I have content that's based off of these four topics that people are searching for. And that we know people are struggling with. I have short form content, you know, minute and a half, two minutes, maybe even less that I can share with people. And I can repurpose all that content on all our social media.

Matthew Johnson (19:31):
So you can start with YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, um, and even take the audio of the entire sermon and make a podcast with it. Now you have five content channels that you're putting content onto that is targeted towards people that are looking for certain topics. And what that does is now you've created your digital platform. You're building trust with your congregation. You're also reaching people that are not being reached and it's all done by stuff you've already written and you're planning on presenting to your congregation. So it's not really extra work other than you have to slice and splice everything that you've got.

Nick Clason (20:14):
So like, is there, um, would you then say, even if you took that the audio of a sermon or something like that, uh, would there be value in taking that audio to a place like rev.com, getting it transcribed for a few bucks? Um, and then you could post the actual, uh, words like the actual, the it'd be an entire manuscript essentially of your sermon, um, on your website and then that would add to increased searchability.

Matthew Johnson (20:45):
Absolutely. Yeah. Right. All words are now search terms on your website that you just added for your sermon mm-hmm and rev, you know, uh, I don't know a little cost of rev, but I know a lot of the cost of these are like 80 cents a minute. So doesn't usually cost that much.

Nick Clason (21:02):
Yeah. And rev is, cheaper's like 50 cents, if you do like the, the bot one I'll see. Great. Yeah. You know, so it's got some, yeah, it's got some errors that you'll get with it. Right. But the fact of the matter is like it it's still gonna produce most of your words or if you're already a manuscript style, preacher, just copy and paste that.

Matthew Johnson (21:18):
Yeah. And make that downloadable. And also now you have another piece of content where here's the host note or here's the pastor notes from the week. So , mm-hmm,

Nick Clason (21:27):
mm-hmm yeah. And you can do that. Uh, like, so one of the things that, that we were doing in our student ministry is we had a weekly, um, weekly, like YouTube show that we created, which sounds so crazy. And so not to get caught up in the weeds of that, cuz you might be thinking like, what the heck are you talking about but we basically had have like decentralized small groups. Um, and so, uh, we would use a video and we created just a show out of it. We'd use a video to, to supply the content for our groups that are meeting in living rooms or on campus or whatever, all throughout the week, every week had a theme. And then of course every week had a teaching topic. And so what I would do as a social media person on our student team was I'd look at the week from Sunday to Sunday.

Nick Clason (22:13):
And I would just do all kinds of different stuff that was both promoting and talking about the theme. So if it was like sports week, we'd do like sports trivia stuff like on Instagram stories. And that would help sort of like remind what the theme is or whatever. But then once, once the show dropped on Wednesday, we would use, uh, pieces and clips of that content that would be on like Instagram reels or TikTok. Um, we would have recaps, we would have like photo recaps, like all kinds of stuff. Right? So like you can almost do that same thing with like a Sunday morning experience. If you're in a sermon series on the fruit of the spirit and this week was the love week mm-hmm you can, you can splice all that stuff up into every day, a recap of the sermon or something like that. On Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, um, you're posting the audio, you're posting the manuscript. You're putting all that stuff out on your website and all of that is just repurposing content. Exactly. So if you're, if, if I'm a pastor and I'm hearing this strategy, my, my rebuttal to that would be okay, but like my people already heard that on Sunday morning. So all is all of this. Just gonna be like a retread of that information. Like don't they want new content.

Matthew Johnson (23:30):
No um, some people are gonna want new content, but I will. Okay. I'll challenge. I would challenge you. Okay. Ask your congregation after you're done. What did, give me remember everything I just said or what you also get is I get this a lot in our comments and on, uh, talking to people when we're at church, what was that thing that, um, PT said again there, um, it was so good. Like see that's the content. And if I post that, it becomes shareable. They'll share it with their friends. Mm-hmm and that's the whole goal is you want people to spread the word of who you are. Yeah. And the best way to do that. Who Jesus. Yes. Who Jesus is. So the best way to do that is to use the content that you're creating that is shareable. Um, and that's just gonna spread the word and it doesn't matter if they've heard it already, if it's already shareable and especially if it was it powerful, cuz they're gonna share it again and they're gonna like it again. And mm-hmm, also in four weeks, they're gonna forget so

Nick Clason (24:32):
Well. And, and you know, again, think about this. We talked about this in our last podcast, but you version, what if you were doing like a series through the fruit of the spirit and like on Monday or Sunday at church or something, you're like, Hey, let's all read this you version, plan on love and scan this QR code or whatever. And as a church, let's read it together. Let's comment on it together. Let's build one another up and then let's come back next week and we'll do the joy week, you know, or whatever, whatever that is. And so even in that, you can make whatever you are that that's unique, different custom content. It's under the same like umbrella topic. Right. But then you can, so if you were at church on Sunday and you are one of those faithful people that is at church four weeks a month, uh, which is definitely out of the norm, there are ways to make it where it's not just so repeatable.

Nick Clason (25:26):
Yeah. But you're right. People, people forget. So, so if, despite, despite what we think, right? Like despite if we agree or disagree that, that discipleship online discipleship in a hybrid world is even possible. It's what generation Z is looking for and asking for mm-hmm and to your point, they are, uh, they're here. Yep. You know, they are, they're graduating college now and they're the type of people that you're going, that your church is gonna be looking to reach one day or another. Because if we don't, if we don't, they will not be in our church in a couple of years, if we choose to ignore reaching them. And that's a terrifying thought. But the fact of the matter is if we don't start catering some of what we're doing to the generation that's up and coming, they will, they will choose to not be a part of our churches anymore.

Matthew Johnson (26:22):
Yep. Yeah. And something we also gotta remember is they're gonna be having kids. They're gonna raise their kids, not in the church and then their kids raise their kids, not a church. So it's just going to be this ripple effect that we definitely need to get ahead of and start thinking about. And we also know that seven, I think it's, what is it? Seven outta of 10 people come to Christ before the age of 18. So yeah.

Nick Clason (26:48):
Yeah. That, that stat alone is why I'm a youth pastor.

Matthew Johnson (26:50):
So yeah. So like, you know that we have to reach them where they are when they're young and we need to reach them because they are getting old so mm-hmm

Nick Clason (27:00):
And I think the terrifying thing in all of this is that it's breaking down our standard archetype of what church has looked like and what, what, uh, I don't know what we're used to and, and how we staff. Yes. You know, like we staff to produce and program a weekly service. And so talking about what we're talking about really changes the game.

Matthew Johnson (27:31):
Yep.

Nick Clason (27:33):
Like it really, it's a completely different, um, it's a completely different look. Exactly. And, and no one's really doing that. You know, there's not really a good model out there. And to, to your point, one of your favorite things is the church tends to lag behind about 10 years and so marketers are already on this content marketing thing and churches are just now starting to, starting to think about it and talk about it. Yeah. And so what are the, like, you know, you're, you're in charge of marketing and our church. What, what are the types of things that you need on a marketing team or the types of pieces of content that you'd be looking for in order to, to do something like this in order to run this sort of like model that you're looking for, um, in a, in a effective way, because like I said, I think it's a little bit where it's gonna require us to redeploy some of our, our current resources, you know, including staff and, and dollars and hours spent on certain tasks or whatever.

Matthew Johnson (28:31):
Yeah. So all the video content we've talked about is something that I think everyone should start doing right now. And it's just great content in general. Um, on top of that, so I'll give a more advanced example of something we just did, which was, we decided that we wanted to create an ebook for our community. That was a 101 re 101 things to do with your kids this summer. And Nick, you were a huge part of creating the ebook, um, with like writing the content and everything. And the whole point of this ebook was to reach out to the community and give them a bunch of ideas of stuff. They can go out and enjoy this summer. Mm-hmm, all through all the different neighborhoods and communities around us. Now that ebook did way better than I ever expected it to. Um, I knew it would do well cause eBooks tend to do well, but people were starving for this kind of content. So we had over a thousand downloads in two weeks with over 400 of those being brand new people that don't go to our church. so that's crazy. Um,

Nick Clason (29:37):
So let's, let's talk real fast. Okay. I don't wanna, I don't wanna like out outprice anyone or anything like that, but like how much you said it, it was 39 cents.

Matthew Johnson (29:47):
Yeah. 39 cents

Nick Clason (29:48):
Per, per click or something like that

Matthew Johnson (29:49):
Per conversion. So it was 39 cents per person to download the ebook.

Nick Clason (29:54):
So then what did we, do? You know what we paid in that in totality?

Matthew Johnson (29:58):
Yeah. So we paid about, um, total with both ads that we ran about $600 and that was, um, two different ads. One was a lead gen ad, which was 39 cents. And one was an awareness ad, which that's a whole different ball game we can get in, in a different conversation.

Nick Clason (30:17):
Sure, sure. But I'm just saying, cuz you know, you say something like that, like that has over a thousand downloads. I, I would imagine most PS are salivating mm-hmm after something like that. Yep. Right. Um, and so, and it's not like $600 might sound expensive, but in the land of Facebook marketing, you're saying that's one of the cheapest conversions you've ever seen.

Matthew Johnson (30:37):
Oh yeah. Absolutely. If I'm under $4 on a conversion, I'm usually happy so when I've hitting since of a conversion, I'm ecstatic. Um, and on top of that, like the, we saw the ebook directly correlate to probably a higher number in our vacation Bible school this year. So cause we add vacation, we added our vacation Bible school and the ebook is something we can do this year. And we had our biggest vacation Bible school since COVID and maybe ever in the history of the church. So mm-hmm

Nick Clason (31:09):
so that's a, that's a thing that's easy that you can do for families. Yeah. I'm like, Hey, here's something to do for your kids. What does gen Z want?

Matthew Johnson (31:20):
Oh, that's a good question.

Matthew Johnson (31:23):
Fin Z wants spiritual content that entertains them. Um, you and I know that gen Z is asking some of the deepest questions I've ever heard spiritually. They do not stray away from hard conversations at all. Mm-hmm like some of the stuff I get asked by gen Z, I would've never asked in my entire life to my youth pastor or to any mentor I had and they just blatantly come out and ask it and they also want to be entertained. Mm-hmm what I mean by that is it's not like you need to be this clown delivering your content. Um, what I mean,

Nick Clason (32:07):
No, I, I would even argue as like student pastors, like that day of the, the gregarious, like attractional, I'm gonna swallow a goldfish. Yeah. Like that's kind of a turn off to

Matthew Johnson (32:19):
JY now. It is. Yeah. When I say entertain, I mean like tell the content, well, be communicated, be open. Just tell a good story. As you're talking through this and not like, Hey, this is a story, but like the story structure and we should do a whole episode on what I'm talking about when we talk about that. Um yeah. But would, uh, so content that, and then do that content that's short, short form and usually video. So the more video content you can create for them that is geared towards their heavy questions. Like don't stray away from answering some of the hard questions that, you know, might politically arise either side of the aisle, you know, that's okay. Cause those are the questions they're asking and you need to give them biblical truth when it comes to that. So,

Nick Clason (33:10):
And that's, that's scary to do as a church to create a video. Yeah. And, and put that out there. Yeah. Cause you, it does become a little polarizing.

Matthew Johnson (33:17):
Yeah. And you have to obviously weigh in on, um, way the pros and cons of like releasing that content. But I will also argue that if you have a bunch of like negative comments or negative, like pushback from a video, you need to like stray into that. And we've seen that companies that weigh into the negative and reply to negative comments have a higher trust value with their consumer base.

Nick Clason (33:46):
Hmm. Interesting. Yeah. It's actually, it's, it's interesting that you say that, cuz just recently, um, we got, uh, like our curriculum for our student ministry. Yeah. And one of the series was like called how to friend. Um, and that's what we were gonna launch our like small group cycle with. Yeah. And in our discussion I was like, Hey guys, like, I'm fine with that. I think that's a good, a good like thing to talk about. But I came across this study, um, on like mental health, um, from, from some friends of mine that work at a church here in Chicago that called the chapel. Um, and so I was like, you know, I, I think that might be a little more, uh, what we should talk about or what maybe our students are needing to hear than another series about how to be a good friend.

Nick Clason (34:35):
Yeah. And I think a lot of times that's sort of the approach we take in student ministry or in ministry in general is like, Hey, here's a, here's a series on, on how to display love. Yeah. Like, yeah. That's yes, that's important, but you're right. Like they're, they, they already want to love, they're one of the most inclusive generations that we've ever seen in our entire lives. And so if that's the case, like we, we like, we don't need to, we don't need to Wade into that. We need to Wade into the, the mental health conversation. We need to Wade into the gender conversation. We need to wait into the fill in the blank. The stuff that really matters. Not that, or at least it really matters to

Matthew Johnson (35:15):
Them. Yes, exactly.

Nick Clason (35:17):
So, yeah. Yeah, man. Well, this was a great conversation again. Appreciate your time. Appreciate everyone listening. Any last final thoughts Matt, as we, uh, wrap this conversation up.

Matthew Johnson (35:29):
Yeah. I would, uh, challenge. Whoever's listening to this to go create one piece of digital content. This, if that's a blog, a new, a one off video, whatever that looks like and figure out how to deliver that to your people.

Nick Clason (35:46):
Yeah. That's good. That's a good challenge. All right, everyone. Appreciate you listening, please. Please give us a little subscribe a rating. If you found this helpful share with friend on or online, appreciate you guys and.